Guild Wars 2

I love getting QQ whispers from players that Portal Hump then claim, I’m a coward Thief for leaving..

OriOri.8724:

And the thieves in this thread continue to deflect.

“It shouldn’t be changed because other classes have OP mechanics/skills/traits.”

Every elite spec still needs to be nerfed, trying to deflect isn’t any sort of argument to keep ID without an ICD

Sorry but looking at anything in a vacuum is very stupid to do because then everything looks OP, so once they reduce all the power creep then ID should stay as is, especially since 7/9 classes have more than enough answers to it, sorry but if you play any of those 7 classes it’s an L2P issue.

Crinn.7864:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Hmm interesting except that Initiative used does count as a sort of CD it’s not like Thieves have unlimited Initiative, they blow their Initiative guess what they have to wait for more.

Ini management isn’t rocket science.

And yeah " setup"burst right.. when majority of Warrior Interrupts do a significant amount of damage sans pommel bash and are all on relatively low CDs.

Skullgrinder and Headbutt are the only CC that deal notable damage. Nobody ever died from Shield Bash damage.
Skullgrinder is a issue to itself but that is not the purview of this thread.

What is a Cc used for besides interrupting or locking down players? Oh yeah that’s exactly what they used for funny isn’kitten

Warriors use CC to hold the target in place for their burst. Thieves use CC to interrupt. The usage is completely different.

Also warriors fulfill a completely and utterly different role than thieves. Something you and Cynz like to ignore in your effort to point the thread away.

Not ignoring anything I look at everything and draw parallels since Warriors unlike you, for the environment PI with Headshot isn’t OP. There are classes that do similar things like Chain CCs together that do a significant amount of damage.

It doesn’t matter what role they play(FYI warrior can fulfill the +1 and Decap Role that Thief fills) they can achieve similar results using CCs which are there to interrupt and lock down players while dealing respectable damage, omg look both can do that, how can you justify one vs the other? Especially when one has more sustain than the other and achieve similar results and guess what it’s not the Thief with that sustain.

So until they go through and balance every class and rain. In the HoT powercreep PI is perfectly fine, so quit QQing. Because if you are dying to PI it’s not because it’s OP.

Astralporing.1957:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

One flaw you have in your argument, And it’s a big one. The Raid Dev Team does not Hinder any other content development

Sure they do. It’s not like those people could not be used to develop other content. Since Anet resources are finite, just allocating several people to raids and raids alone hinders development in places those people were not assigned to.

Also, yeah, 6 months is nothing, especially for a content type meant for minority. Up to now, Raids had an unbelievably fast development rate.
And yet some people still think it’s not enough.

Wow you still don’t understand why the Devs are split into teams, it’s so they can focus on their designated content without impacting other parts of development. But go ahead tell us the actual numbers of Devs on the raid team that are hindering other departments development and the metrics of how much development is hindered, I will wait.

Every piece of the game has received extremely fast development rate, let’s look at from the timeline Raids were released till now.

PvP has had multiple Seasosn with hefty reworks each Season

WvW has had hefty implementations/ reworks every other month roughly

Raids have gotten 3 raid Wings in a 12 month Period

Fractals have undergone multiple Reworks and had two brand new Fractals implemented.

There have been 2 living Stories the newest of which introduced multiple Maps and quest lines.

Heart of Thorns core maps have been tweaked/reworked.

But yes go ahead tell us how Raids have impacted the Development of non raid content.

If there has been anything that has hindered development that would be the plethora of Devs that were moved to the Expansion.

Crinn.7864:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Crinn.7864:

foste.3098:

@cynz if the entire class is dependent on a single trait to function then the class itself is the issue,

Except the class isn’t dependent on that trait. If Impacting Disruption was deleted from the game, thieves would still win all the same matchups that they already win, and lose all the same matchups that they already lose.

ID is a totally superfluous trait that has done nothing but promote mindless interrupt use.

You mean like The mindless Warrior interrupt use?

You use a interrupt wrong on a warrior and it goes on full CD. You use a interrupt wrong on a thief and it’s ok because #noCD.

Also warriors CC is used differently. Warriors typically use CC to set up their burst. Thieves use CC just to interrupt.

Hmm interesting except that Initiative used does count as a sort of CD it’s not like Thieves have unlimited Initiative, they blow their Initiative guess what they have to wait for more.

And yeah " setup"burst right.. when majority of Warrior Interrupts do a significant amount of damage sans pommel bash and are all on relatively low CDs. I.e. Besides pommel bash all Warrior Interrupts are 1.0 to 3.0 damage Coefficients, not to mention their lowest CD interrupt also Applies multiple conditions and can be virtually spammed.

What is a Cc used for besides interrupting or locking down players? Oh yeah that’s exactly what they used for funny isn’kitten

And guess what for the Warriors Damage from those skills he doesn’t even need to interrupt a skill.

#FunFacts!

Crinn.7864:

foste.3098:

@cynz if the entire class is dependent on a single trait to function then the class itself is the issue,

Except the class isn’t dependent on that trait. If Impacting Disruption was deleted from the game, thieves would still win all the same matchups that they already win, and lose all the same matchups that they already lose.

ID is a totally superfluous trait that has done nothing but promote mindless interrupt use.

You mean like The mindless Warrior interrupt use?

Blaeys.3102:

The community is at least partly to fault for this. You cant demand content be developed for a small percentage of the population – then deride and belittle anyone suggesting it have a broader appeal – and then turn around and expect that content to be a developmental focus.

Raiding should be a sporadic thing, with the emphasis remaining on those things that drive GW2’s mass appeal (open world, wvw, etc). That isn’t to say it shouldn’t be something they put out – just that it doesn’t warrant treatment as a core game feature as long as the audience and focus remain as limited as they are.

And just feel lucky that it’s just six months. We’ve been waiting almost 4 years now for new guild missions.

One flaw you have in your argument, And it’s a big one. The Raid Dev Team does not Hinder any other content development and no one demanded it to be the main focus of content development, but iirc you demanded the Raid Team work on projects that would slow down the release of Raid content/development.

And the raids were designed for and exceeded their Expectaions of Audience, all content doesn’t have to appeal to every that is something you need to come to understand, every piece. Of content released has a specific target audience, it’s not a hard concept to grasp, that not everyone would like or want to do raids because not everyone have the same tastes.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Ithilwen.1529:

Yes, matches are deliberately stacked. Here’s 10 of my nearly 20 games today.

That’s an average margin of just over 231 points. It’s abundantly clear that I’m being sent out just as cannon fodder.

I understand the desire to lessen queue times, but I don’t appreciate appearing to be a designated loser. I am not being matched to my skill level at all.

Ooo, I love playing the post your matches game! I suggest posting it from https://gw2efficiency.com/account/pvp because it now also shows how many points you won/loss! This gives greater indication to the team matchup. Note in mine I got a sweet +18 point win. I assume that’s because my team was facing Caed and Zeromis or something. But I’m confused, which of who was being sent out as cannon fodder in this match? o.O

Funny how your post went completely ignored, since it defeats the narrative! Keep up the good work.

Sounds like they need to scrap Solo queue because it’s incompatible with the organized team gamemode known as sPvP, and implement a pure 5v5 team Queue, and a 2/3 mans team Queue as well. Boom all problems solved with matchmaker especially once they remove class stacking, queue times should never be a reason for compromised Matchmaking.

The great thing about looking at damage values in a vacuum is they will never be accurate except under those perfect conditions. If it’s in an actual fight there are so many different variables that make trying to determine the number s in a vacuum irrelevant.

Astralporing.1957:

…seriously? The game has barely shifted its focus from the former target towards the hardcore crowd, and the raiders are still not satisfied and are already asking for more?

Why i’m not surprised.

It’s almost like Raids have their own development team that doesn’t impact other content type development. And don’t act like the Casual crowd doesn’t demand new content every other week or when another gamemode receives updates, or claim that the whole games focus shifted to “hardcore” it is still the casual paradise it has always been. hell non raiders/casuals even demand that raid developers go work on projects not covered by their team, maybe non raiders shouldn’t try to call the kettle black, at least Raiders don’t demand other Content developers work on their preferred gamemode at the cost of others.

Crinn.7864:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Crinn.7864:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Crinn.7864:

Cynz.9437:

Actually arc divider is good example what is really strong. IP is not in comparison. Thing is, you just don’t want us to bring up spells from other classes because you just want to get IP nerfed.

No class has the interrupt capabilities of thief, and IP hits way to hard for such a interrupt heavy class.
IP would be fine if thieves couldn’t interrupt chain till the end of time.

As a necro I would rather face a power warrior 10/10 times than a IP thief, because warriors can be countered. Thieves you can’t touch because literally every single one of my casts is interrupted.

Warrior begs to differ….

Warrior does not have the interrupts of a thief. The closest would be a old school physical build. And warriors have large amounts of telegraph on their CC.

Oh really? Let’s see Meta Thief can Chain 4 Headshots together, Warrior can Chain 4 interrupts together all on low CD funny how that works isn’kitten Since you were talking about Chaining together Interrupts, and saying how no other class can Chain as many CC, and guess what the Warrior CC Chain does more damage overall….

Meta thief has steal interrupt, their elite and 5-6 headshots if they are alternating HS with auto.
Bad thieves that can’t manage ini are not relevant to discussing balance.

Warrior has 4 interrupts that go on full cooldown when used.

Let’s use your logic:

[/quote]This isn’t about P/P thief. This is about D/P thief.[/quote]

This thread is only about Headshot and Pulminary Impact so….

Now let’s look at this you said chaining which means chaining no breaks, or no aa in between. Now let’s look at the Omg high CDs of Warrior Cc, we have 2.5 sec CD, 12 Second CD, 16 Sec CD and a 20 Sec CD so depending on how the warrior opens he can easily achieve anywhere from 5-6+ CCs chained. Yay facts!!!

Crinn.7864:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Crinn.7864:

Cynz.9437:

Actually arc divider is good example what is really strong. IP is not in comparison. Thing is, you just don’t want us to bring up spells from other classes because you just want to get IP nerfed.

No class has the interrupt capabilities of thief, and IP hits way to hard for such a interrupt heavy class.
IP would be fine if thieves couldn’t interrupt chain till the end of time.

As a necro I would rather face a power warrior 10/10 times than a IP thief, because warriors can be countered. Thieves you can’t touch because literally every single one of my casts is interrupted.

Warrior begs to differ….

Warrior does not have the interrupts of a thief. The closest would be a old school physical build. And warriors have large amounts of telegraph on their CC.

Oh really? Let’s see Meta Thief can Chain 4 Headshots together, Warrior can Chain 4 interrupts together all on low CD funny how that works isn’kitten Since you were talking about Chaining together Interrupts, and saying how no other class can Chain as many CC, and guess what the Warrior CC Chain does more damage overall….

Crinn.7864:

Cynz.9437:

Actually arc divider is good example what is really strong. IP is not in comparison. Thing is, you just don’t want us to bring up spells from other classes because you just want to get IP nerfed.

No class has the interrupt capabilities of thief, and IP hits way to hard for such a interrupt heavy class.
IP would be fine if thieves couldn’t interrupt chain till the end of time.

As a necro I would rather face a power warrior 10/10 times than a IP thief, because warriors can be countered. Thieves you can’t touch because literally every single one of my casts is interrupted.

Warrior begs to differ….

D/D is great for PvE it gives you quiet a few options to use the more prominent ones are Power builds or you can go Condi

OriOri.8724:

Azukas.1426:

OriOri.8724:

The amount of people defending a broken design is absolutely ridiculous. Have you thief players ever stopped and considered that the fact that thief is so reliant on these cheese gimmicks is because part of the design of the class is flawed? No, putting an ICD on ID will not kill thief, it just won’t.

But what I really can’t understand is why you thief players so adamantly defend cheese mechanics on a thief. Every single time it comes up you guys come rushing in with “But we need it! Otherwise thief will be trash.” Its either “Its not OP” (which doesn’t mean it isn’t a fundamentally flawed design) or “if you nerf/remove this thief will never be competitive again”. If you rely on 1 or 2 cheese gimmicks to be competitive (which you actually don’t anyway) then the class needs to be redesigned.

Quit kittening whining and get out of denial. Some features of your class are just pure bad design and need to be redone. And when they are, thief will no longer be this one trick pony that it is right now, you will no longer be reliant on cheese mechanics just to be effective.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mistrust

vs

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_

PI can’t crit, but power block can. Mistrust gives out 4 stacks of confusion which is insane damage that will eclipse a PI proc with like 1-2 tics + skill use.

Oh and I main mesmer so before you go on about headshot being spammable or some other kitten we mesmers can chain interrupts just as well.

So like I said until one of you refutes my original post please let this thread die.

Thank You

No one needs to refute your original post because all it is doing is trying to derail this thread, exactly like you are doing with this post. This is a thread about thiefs, not mesmers. Even then though, yes mesmers can chain interrupts but it requires more than 1 skill on the bar to do so, unlike thief. To chain 3 interrupts, a mesmer would have to use 3 different skills on their bar, and power lock has a 4 second cooldown itself regardless. Thief only has to burn 1 skill to do the same thing. This thread is about thieves however, not about mesmers. Trying to turn the discussion back to mesmers is doing nothing more than trying to derail the thread because you can’t actually defend the point at hand.

@BlaqueFyre – Oh, I’m sorry. You are right, I didn’t know every mechanic of a class I don’t play often. Forgive me for trying to learn. I didn’t realize that looking for resources to learn how a class works is the wrong thing to do. Ad hominem attacks don’t strengthen your argument, but they do actively weaken it. It shows that you can’t defend IP itself, so you are resorting to attacking people who see the problem with its flawed design. Also, for the record, I never once called for a nerf to thieves in that thread. Not once. So get that bullkitten out of here.

It’s not an Ad Hominem attack, you are in this thread and a few others asking for nerfs to Thief, when a player has proven they don’t even know the mechanics behind Thief, (they dont have to play the class to know it’s mechanics for one,so trying to use that as an excuse is very poor) and when that same person cries for nerfs on a class they have proven not to know the very basics of, it makes really really difficult to take their input seriously.

And when people call for Nerfs they have to look at everything as a Whole not just one isolated skill or ability. Every class except for two have more than enough counters to ID/PI, you cannot say they don’t because then you would be lying which discredits the argument of it being OP even more.

Guess what gameplay in PvP is all about Rock Paper Scissors, only two classes have very little to answer Headshot and PI with those being Thief and Reaper, everyone else has massive amounts of Blocks/Invulns/Stability application/Projectile Hate, all as a valid answer to Headshot/PI, it’s very funny people try to ignore those answers/counterplay.

Now if most classes didn’t have ridiculous access to all those counters to Headshot/PI then yeah you would have a point, but they do exist and in massive amounts so no currently it is not OP when considered in the current Meta with all the active and passive counters to it.

OriOri.8724:

The amount of people defending a broken design is absolutely ridiculous. Have you thief players ever stopped and considered that the fact that thief is so reliant on these cheese gimmicks is because part of the design of the class is flawed? No, putting an ICD on ID will not kill thief, it just won’t.

But what I really can’t understand is why you thief players so adamantly defend cheese mechanics on a thief. Every single time it comes up you guys come rushing in with “But we need it! Otherwise thief will be trash.” Its either “Its not OP” (which doesn’t mean it isn’t a fundamentally flawed design) or “if you nerf/remove this thief will never be competitive again”. If you rely on 1 or 2 cheese gimmicks to be competitive (which you actually don’t anyway) then the class needs to be redesigned.

Quit kittening whining and get out of denial. Some features of your class are just pure bad design and need to be redone. And when they are, thief will no longer be this one trick pony that it is right now, you will no longer be reliant on cheese mechanics just to be effective.

It’s not cheesy it relies on active play and timing to actually interrupt a skill, unlike certain classes relying on passives to carry them through most situations.

Also ID has tons of counter play already built in to the game, funny how that works, and there are only two classes that don’t have over the top means to get around it which are Thief and Necro, since every other class have Access to Stability/Blocks/Invulns and the plethora of Projectile Hate.

And it is pretty hard to take people serious when they don’t even know how classes even work and ask for Nerfs to them, i.e. Consume Plasma, need I say more?

Lordrosicky.5813:

Warrior, thief and mesmer are too good currently.

All the other classes are fine.

So lets come up with some ideas how to nerf them in a fair way.

I will edit this with the best ideas in this thread and then we can contribute to the development of the game.

Nah, they just need to Nerf Reaper, it has far too much mobility for its concept and ability to range and AoE, as well as allowing for it to be Tanky.

My proposed changes are remove the Teleport from Flesh Wurm, for one there is zero reason that killing a Wurm Minion Teleports a Reaper, and two they need to reduce the distance of Reaper shroud 2 Death’s Charge, it should be reduced to a 200 unit charge.

Sinmir.6504:

What I would love is if there was a downed skill 5 for instant death. Maybe have it the 0 key so that you can’t fat finger it. Say it becomes available 3 seconds after entering downed state. Maybe doing it activates your own finisher.
I don’t think it would be used that often, people I’ve fought against usually do what they can to avoid the stomp if there is a chance of rallying, sometimes even if there is no chance. Last night for example in WvW another player and me were taking a camp, it was cleared out, a thief from the server that owned it tried to contest it. We got him in his downed state and he still teleported as I was doing a finisher. Didn’t help him much as I just ran to where he teleported to and stomped but hey, on the off chance some other player from his sever might join the fray he tried to postpone the stomp.
But anyway, if the enemy aren’t going to stomp you, gonna hit you with projectile just before you revive with 4 and it doesn’t look like you have a teammate to revive you anywhere near then an instant death option would be nice.

Why? It’s a perfectly sound tactic to use. Why should they make PvP easier by removing sound tactics in this gamemode? It allows for more dimensions to game play besides spam moar skills!!!!

displayname.8315:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

They only cost too much if you try to transfer up, maybe players should look at transferring down and actually try to fix the core issue of the game mode which is population balance. Currently its 500 gems to go to a medium/low pop server which equals to approx 147 gold currently vs 1800/approx 600 g to transfer to a stacked server.

I commend your optimism but all you end up doing is burning 200 gold to lock yourself into a dead server and empty matchup. People just want to log in and play. Get on a super stacked server and you can actually do that. 24 hrs a day 7 days a week.

Maybe if they could like do a autojoin people wouldn’t need to stack. Its all about the benja-gems.

I am in the camp of Blowing up all servers since server Identity is no longer a Thing redistributing the Main WvW guilds giving players a choice of which guild they want to be transferred with if they are in multiple, since there is more Guild Identity more so than anything else and then seed he lower population guilds and non Active WvW players throughout the new servers trying to achieve as close to balance as possible and then locking all Servers to prevent server stacking. All the while reducing the amount of Servers as needed.

They only cost too much if you try to transfer up, maybe players should look at transferring down and actually try to fix the core issue of the game mode which is population balance. Currently its 500 gems to go to a medium/low pop server which equals to approx 147 gold currently vs 1800/approx 600 g to transfer to a stacked server.

XxsdgxX.8109:

DrDivine.5378:

This profession has had an interesting history, from being almost unusable to becoming the staple on any serious team. People might disagree with me on this, but one issue I’ve always had with the revenant in pvp is that it doesn’t feel like it knows what it wants to be.

Power shiro, the most prominent build in it’s history, is really just a thief. Once they were able to take their role back as the sort of glassy but very mobile dps, they don’t have much to work with. The revenant is a heavy class, but it doesn’t really take hits (conditions for that matter) very well.

Thief and mesmer used to suffer from this problem for the longest time, the reason old fashioned shatter power mesmer didn’t work is because it was heaviy countered by thief but trying to fight for that role of “glassy mobile dps guy” and failed. Once mesmer started to lean towards it’s own role, the really annoying confusion, manipulation with portal it started to stand on it’s own. Thats what we need right now. Thief and mesmer are now doing their own things, revenant needs to do the same.

It was jack of all trades (and master of none), but the saltiness of people destroyed the class and now it does at best an average job at niche things, it’s pretty sad because arguably it’s one of the most interesting classes, both mechanically and thematically.

And you can see how people in general don’t give kitten about balance when they keep expressing how happy they are that the class they hate is almost unusable and hope it stays dead.

You mean it was shipped overpowered compared to all other Classes forcing Multiple classes out of their Roles for close to a Year.

Sorry the Rev finally got a dose of reality, maybe now they will start fixing its plethora of bugs instead of making it rely on overpowered skills.

BlackBeard.2873:

One suggestion I have seen is to make the pulm. impact proc dodgeable. That also opens interesting counterplay to try and force or time dodges to prevent the damage.

It also doesn’t significantly reduce the dps of thief.

Or you use the actual counter play like Stability, Invulns, Dodging the interrupts and so on. It’s not like all the tools aren’t out their, and there are a lot of classes with Non dodgeable effects and damage.

Vargamonth.2047:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Crinn.7864:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Rickster.8752:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Or just dodge it, block it, reflect it, destroy it, apply Stability, use an Invuln. And so on there’s counter play to it just saying.

Let the salt flow!!!

That is my point. You should be able to dodge it. Hence why a 0.75s cast time is fair to all concerned.

You can dodge it. That is my point… the projectile still has travel time and does have a precast ans animation to tip you off.

The precast animation is identical to pistol#5’s animation. The projectile travel is only relevant if it’s used from maximum range otherwise it’s beyond what you can realistically expect a human to be able to react to.

Also latency. Some of us live in states that don’t have fiber infrastructure.

There is an animation, it isn’t exactly instanios travel you can see it and still dodge it.

Also why should balanced be done around people with crap internet, that is the worst argument to use.

The average reaction time, including average latency, is already slightly over 0.25s, and that’s for a completely clear stimulus (not an animation you have to recognize, thus it will have started before even you have the chance to react) and full focus on it.
In order to reactively avoid headshot, a player would need both privileged reflexes and connection, and even with that it shouldn’t be easy. The skill is just not meant to be reactively avoided.

On top of that, it doesn’t make any sense to use a dodge (and thus, interrupt what you were doing) to avoid a skill that’s meant to be an interrupt (fast cast, low damage, 1/4s daze).
IMHO it’s OK to give some damage bonus to well landed interrupts, as long the main goal of the skill is to actually interrupt something relevant (a heal, a dangerous skill, …). If the bonus is so high that spamming the skill every few seconds is still worth the initiative even when interrupting autos, then something is defintely wrong.

Funny I also stated there are other ways to counter it all that are fire and forget, like Stability, Invulns, Projectile reflect/destruction/Blocking and so on let’s not forget all the passives also that anti Cc when off CD

Crinn.7864:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Rickster.8752:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Or just dodge it, block it, reflect it, destroy it, apply Stability, use an Invuln. And so on there’s counter play to it just saying.

Let the salt flow!!!

That is my point. You should be able to dodge it. Hence why a 0.75s cast time is fair to all concerned.

You can dodge it. That is my point… the projectile still has travel time and does have a precast ans animation to tip you off.

The precast animation is identical to pistol#5’s animation. The projectile travel is only relevant if it’s used from maximum range otherwise it’s beyond what you can realistically expect a human to be able to react to.

Also latency. Some of us live in states that don’t have fiber infrastructure.

There is an animation, it isn’t exactly instanios travel you can see it and still dodge it.

Also why should balanced be done around people with crap internet, that is the worst argument to use.

Rickster.8752:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Or just dodge it, block it, reflect it, destroy it, apply Stability, use an Invuln. And so on there’s counter play to it just saying.

Let the salt flow!!!

That is my point. You should be able to dodge it. Hence why a 0.75s cast time is fair to all concerned.

You can dodge it. That is my point… the projectile still has travel time and does have a precast ans animation to tip you off.

Or just dodge it, block it, reflect it, destroy it, apply Stability, use an Invuln. And so on there’s counter play to it just saying.

Let the salt flow!!!

They probably realized they will be adding Legendary trinkets soon, and it made the Bloodstone Fen back piece a Psuedo Legendary back piece for next to no cost

X T D.6458:

Clownmug.8357:

X T D.6458:

This skill is long overdue for a nerf. Spammable, 5 targets, easily hits for over 10k, and an evade? Absolutely terrible and out of touch design, and it needs to be changed for wvw and pvp. Combine that with thieves ridiculous amount of burst damage from power and conditions, stealth spam, and tons of mobility and escapes and you have a profession that is in dire need of rebalancing.

Increase initiative cost to 6 for wvw/pvp
Reduce damage by 20%
Remove the evade

Seems reasonable. If it got the Revenant treatment, the damage would be reduced by 50% and they’d slap on 5 second cooldown even though it goes against the profession’s mechanics.

Heh yea revenant is a another mess. One other possible change I forgot to add was to lower the target limit from 5 to 3. I think a damage reduction and especially increase in initiative cost would be the best way to go with this skill, increasing the cost would prevent it from being spammed a third time since pretty much every thief is running trickery and gets that extra 3 initiative. I don’t know the exact mechanics of the evade on this skill, but I would make it activate when coming down from the leap, therefore allowing a thief to be cc’ed when activating the skill.

Honestly, I would rather thieves use staff then weapon sets that rely on stealth, but this skill in particular is a little too strong right now. Stealth in itself is terrible and needs to be heavily nerfed. I would also like to see changes to dagger, pistol, and sword for thieves as well, specifically for pvp and wvw, but that’s just me.

Only thing I have to blatantly disagree with is all Thief skills need to be balanced around the baseline 12 Initiative pool not on the 15. Or they need to make Preparedness Baseline since all skills are already balanced around the 15 Initiative pool. It’s not that Thieves like running trickery, it’s the fact they are forced to.

OriOri.8724:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

OriOri.8724:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Chiccotot.7296:

Honestly, you think that skill is balanced? What with the evades on evades?
:D

If you read my original post I said that it does a little to much damage, I just can’t take people whining about their ping when wanting balance decisions made, this is one of the most Telegraphed skills in game and you age it 3 times in a row, once the the skill is cast the Thief is locked into it….. if you can’t dodge or move out from under it that’s not the skill being OP…

Its, imo, valid “whining”. The precast is what, 1/4 second? On a 250+ ping its impossible to interrupt something when the window is over by the time you see the attack start on your screen. Should OP not have stood in it? Yea, he shouldn’t have. But that doesn’t change the fact that such a tiny window to interrupt is kind of cheesy on such a high damage skill in the first place.

Anet should never balance around player ping. It’s as simple as that.

ANet should never have a skill setup like this in the first place. Its as simple as that. Your highest damage skills should not be the ones that are the hardest to interrupt. That’s poor balance. This goes for all classes, not just thieves.

Yes I understand that and that’s why I have advocated for that on all skills that do too much, I play Rev and Thief, guess what go look at the Thread about Surge of The Mists nerf, I am for it and would love to see it in both WvW and PvP and in that same thread I stated they needed to nerf Vault under the same premise.

Swagger.1459:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Uh taking things out of context is always fun. But let’s play the game, they probably run very glassy and have every single damage modifier under the sun now that is not to say the skill does not hit hard but To achieve big numbers with Thieves they have to slot all the damage modifier traits/runes/sigils and utilities. Also fun fact his 3 vaults in a row used up every ounce of Initiative the Thief had

And you can interrupt the pre cast of Vault it’s a small window but able to be interrupted, and they have a baked in punish frame on the second half of the skill.

I find it funny that you stayed under him on the most Telegraphed Skill Thief has to take three vaults to the face, when you have more than enough mobility and skills to kite the Thief.

Nobody is taking anything out of context, there is a clear picture of the damage.

If you want to play the “it’s ok” card, then how about we give comparable damage and attack output to rangers and see how much you qq even harder on your thief…

Players like you are not competitive minded, and that’s very clear by your rude dismissal of the facts provided. You may choose to defend the amount of single player damage output, but that doesn’t make you right. The only reason certain stupid things, like this, even exist in the game is because the devs neglect profession development, won’t devote the resources to making healthy competitive game modes and most probably do not have a strong background in player vs player gameplay… But, ya know, this game is really balanced and well maintained for pvp combat so it must be all good…

Again read my first reply or is reading comprehension something you lack? I stated the damage is a little much, and yes context was needed hence the later admission of 240+ ping, and it’s still a random screenshot no info on his gear besides the claim of full clerics and no info on the Thieves Setup see how no context(see below of more non Context screenshot of more Ermergherd OP damage) kind of pathetic why don’t you qq more then and every class can do stupid amounts of damage like 18k Mauls from Ranger. Also interesting a skill that has 1200 range and can hit over 20k all in the matter of seconds.

And never have Is said this game is balanced, go ahead look through all my posts never have I stated such, this game is a complete mess on all fronts in regards to competitive gameplay.

OriOri.8724:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Chiccotot.7296:

Honestly, you think that skill is balanced? What with the evades on evades?
:D

If you read my original post I said that it does a little to much damage, I just can’t take people whining about their ping when wanting balance decisions made, this is one of the most Telegraphed skills in game and you age it 3 times in a row, once the the skill is cast the Thief is locked into it….. if you can’t dodge or move out from under it that’s not the skill being OP…

Its, imo, valid “whining”. The precast is what, 1/4 second? On a 250+ ping its impossible to interrupt something when the window is over by the time you see the attack start on your screen. Should OP not have stood in it? Yea, he shouldn’t have. But that doesn’t change the fact that such a tiny window to interrupt is kind of cheesy on such a high damage skill in the first place.

Anet should never balance around player ping. It’s as simple as that.

OGDeadHead.8326:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Oh ok, there is no proof in his post, there is clearly a lack there of, and if we go with his argument, Anet has recently as in the last couple Quarters been quick to fix patch note and Tool Tip discrepancies. So the lack of then doing that points even further to it being a bug.

I agree with this, Anet have been quicker to fix these things than they used to be. Look, I’m not arguing for or against this being a bug or not, all I asked for was some official response on the matter.

For example:

jewishjoyride.4693:

FYI the unblockable portion is a confirmed bug. ANET did not allow rangers to use it during the most recent TOL.

I’d like to see the official info about this, if available. Don’t mistake my request for info as a for or against argument.

The best that can be found on this unless Devs stated on anything on Reddit for the ToL, Edit here is the Link

Jim Hunter.6821:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Jim Hunter.6821:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Nope the problem is people whining…..

Yeah the whining is pretty annoying, maybe you should just take a break from posting so we don’t have to hear any more.

Yeah I am whining so much when all i have stated was for Anet to fix a bug since there is no proof showing it is intended, but nice attempt at a redirection, but that’s all we will ever get from players like you that defend bugs to be relevant. Eww the salt is real with you.

Lol okay buddy.
I’m just going to refer you back to OGDeadHead’s last post.
You take care now.

Oh ok, there is no proof in his post, there is clearly a lack there of, and if we go with his argument, Anet has recently as in the last couple Quarters been quick to fix patch note and Tool Tip discrepancies. So the lack of then doing that points even further to it being a bug.

The P/P build I use when I feel like trolling or Punishing DHs is:

Assassin’s Amulet
DA/CS/Tri: in Tri I run Flanking Strikes and Trickster
Heal: Withdraw
Utilities: Shadowstep, Assassin’s Signet, Signet of Agility or Haste or Devourer Venom.
Elite Basilisk Venom

This build will eat any Class besides Ele, and Engie alive, it can be hard to kill Warriors but if you Basi Venom their Blocks you can kite them long enough to kill them, just don’t Spam while they block or you will kill yourself or unsuspecting teammates.

Nope, because Anet doesn’t want to increase Queue times even if it means their “competitive” gamemode isn’t balanced and has meaningful Matchmaking.

Jim Hunter.6821:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Nope the problem is people whining…..

Yeah the whining is pretty annoying, maybe you should just take a break from posting so we don’t have to hear any more.

Yeah I am whining so much when all i have stated was for Anet to fix a bug since there is no proof showing it is intended, but nice attempt at a redirection, but that’s all we will ever get from players like you that defend bugs to be relevant. Eww the salt is real with you.

Chiccotot.7296:

Honestly, you think that skill is balanced? What with the evades on evades?
:D

If you read my original post I said that it does a little to much damage, I just can’t take people whining about their ping when wanting balance decisions made, this is one of the most Telegraphed skills in game and you age it 3 times in a row, once the the skill is cast the Thief is locked into it….. if you can’t dodge or move out from under it that’s not the skill being OP…

Chiccotot.7296:

No, i was out of everything, blew all my cooldowns to escape their zerg, but guess what? he’s got 3 dodges forward and a shadowstep to bridge the gap. g-kitten-g

It also does not help that i am playing this in OCX Timezone where constant 250+ pings. That “small window” might as well be a non-existent window.

So due to your 250 ping and you couldn’t move out from under Vault which is a very slow and telegraphed groundtargetted skill that Thief can’t redirect unless he burns Steal or Shadowstep, only one of which he could have used by viewing your combat log, you stood under 3 vaults and you want the game balanced around that. Gotcha.

Uh taking things out of context is always fun. But let’s play the game, they probably run very glassy and have every single damage modifier under the sun now that is not to say the skill does not hit hard but To achieve big numbers with Thieves they have to slot all the damage modifier traits/runes/sigils and utilities. Also fun fact his 3 vaults in a row used up every ounce of Initiative the Thief had

And you can interrupt the pre cast of Vault it’s a small window but able to be interrupted, and they have a baked in punish frame on the second half of the skill.

I find it funny that you stayed under him on the most Telegraphed Skill Thief has to take three vaults to the face, when you have more than enough mobility and skills to kite the Thief.

OGDeadHead.8326:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

defending blatant bugs

I’ve missed the dev response to the SotW issue, and would like to read it. Please share a link, thanks.

How about the fact the unblockable is not listed, has never been listed in any patch notes? Or do you need something to clearly spell things out for you every step of the way?

Jim Hunter.6821:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Jim Hunter.6821:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Jim Hunter.6821:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

CETheLucid.3964:

Catching people with it unaware is the most OP thing about it. Make it a patch note so everyone knows it can do this and it’s suddenly not a problem.

8 seconds of utility on a 60 sec cooldown (while sacrificing the passive) really isn’t OP. It’s honestly a nice QoL buff and it’ll be a real shame to see it reverted.

The closest Skill that has Signet of the Wild is Signet of Might and that only gives 6 seconds of unblockable and doesn’t have all the other Rider effects like Stability, Damage increase and movement speed. This is clearly a bug that needs to be squashed, the fact that it has been in game so long amazes me. They really need to get their bug fixes shipped out fast.

Signet of Might also has less than half the cooldown and no cast time…..

Yeah let’s see again a skill that gives 5 stacks of Stability, 50%movement increase and 25% damage increase yes that is perfect for the 1 second cast time and 60 sec CD adding 8 secs of unblockable is the stupidest thing ever, they would have to increase the CD by at least 20 secs minimum for the sake of consistency since a 6 sec unblockable is 25 CD.

This is a Bug and should have been fixed shortly after it was found.

Wut….
If you’re trying to make it sound OP you failed.
1 sec cast time, more than double the cooldown of SoM, and a huge tell (literally). And since rangers damage scales so poorly the 25% damage boost still isn’t going to fully down anything that isn’t 100% glass (not even then in most classes).

Let’s also keep in mind rangers high damage skills are rapid fire which is a 2.5 second channel (unless you are sleeping you should be able to dodge and avoid at least half the damage), Maul which is the most telegraphed weapon skill in the game, and whirling defense which roots the ranger in place.

My 3k armor warrior dishes out higher burst with an unblockable gunflame/decapitate than a glass ranger does, unless the ranger blows every damage modifier they have, even then the damage is pretty comparable.

I really can’t believe you can be defending a blatant Bug with a skill, you must rely on it a lot. Ermergherd 1 second cast time with a lot of effects would be nice if other one sec Cast time abilities had so many affects on them. It’s kind of pathetic when people try to defend Bugs.

……..so just to be clear, your complaint isn’t about rangers finally getting an unblockable attack to counter all the projectile hate that HoT added, your complaint is that a skill can do more than 1 thing……

Well if you really have a problem with skills having multiple effects good luck with your crusade against them because every profession has a ton of them. You’ve got your work cut out for you if you want to convince anet to change them all.

Nope the problem is people whining and defending blatant bugs, when they obviously don’t care about actual balance.

narcx.3570:

“Every attack should have a chance to be dodged.” – The Thief spamming Impacting Disruption.

Well seeing how Headshot has a big Precast and Animation….

You know what’s the best way to fix Matchmaking in Gw2 PvP? You remove Solo queue and have it as it was designed around 5v5 Team Queue, since that what the entire system was designed around. It would take very minimal effort on Anets part to implement and would cull all the QQ about horrible Matchmaking, now tie that to completely visible Skill Rating after matches and boom all problems solved. The big flaw with player created “variations” is they have no basis to run off of besides what they feel would work or benefit them the most. While most Games use elo/Glicko variants for Matchmaking and guess what so do most professional sports leagues. Want to know what all of those have in common? They are based upon static/semi static groups for their actual raked/competitive leagues. But yeah it has no basis that it works..

Jim Hunter.6821:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Jim Hunter.6821:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

CETheLucid.3964:

Catching people with it unaware is the most OP thing about it. Make it a patch note so everyone knows it can do this and it’s suddenly not a problem.

8 seconds of utility on a 60 sec cooldown (while sacrificing the passive) really isn’t OP. It’s honestly a nice QoL buff and it’ll be a real shame to see it reverted.

The closest Skill that has Signet of the Wild is Signet of Might and that only gives 6 seconds of unblockable and doesn’t have all the other Rider effects like Stability, Damage increase and movement speed. This is clearly a bug that needs to be squashed, the fact that it has been in game so long amazes me. They really need to get their bug fixes shipped out fast.

Signet of Might also has less than half the cooldown and no cast time…..

Yeah let’s see again a skill that gives 5 stacks of Stability, 50%movement increase and 25% damage increase yes that is perfect for the 1 second cast time and 60 sec CD adding 8 secs of unblockable is the stupidest thing ever, they would have to increase the CD by at least 20 secs minimum for the sake of consistency since a 6 sec unblockable is 25 CD.

This is a Bug and should have been fixed shortly after it was found.

Wut….
If you’re trying to make it sound OP you failed.
1 sec cast time, more than double the cooldown of SoM, and a huge tell (literally). And since rangers damage scales so poorly the 25% damage boost still isn’t going to fully down anything that isn’t 100% glass (not even then in most classes).

Let’s also keep in mind rangers high damage skills are rapid fire which is a 2.5 second channel (unless you are sleeping you should be able to dodge and avoid at least half the damage), Maul which is the most telegraphed weapon skill in the game, and whirling defense which roots the ranger in place.

My 3k armor warrior dishes out higher burst with an unblockable gunflame/decapitate than a glass ranger does, unless the ranger blows every damage modifier they have, even then the damage is pretty comparable.

I really can’t believe you can be defending a blatant Bug with a skill, you must rely on it a lot. Ermergherd 1 second cast time with a lot of effects would be nice if other one sec Cast time abilities had so many affects on them. It’s kind of pathetic when people try to defend Bugs.

CMM.6712:

The engine is picky about teleporting up or over a gap

The engine is picky about Shadowstepping over flat ground…..

Jim Hunter.6821:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

CETheLucid.3964:

Catching people with it unaware is the most OP thing about it. Make it a patch note so everyone knows it can do this and it’s suddenly not a problem.

8 seconds of utility on a 60 sec cooldown (while sacrificing the passive) really isn’t OP. It’s honestly a nice QoL buff and it’ll be a real shame to see it reverted.

The closest Skill that has Signet of the Wild is Signet of Might and that only gives 6 seconds of unblockable and doesn’t have all the other Rider effects like Stability, Damage increase and movement speed. This is clearly a bug that needs to be squashed, the fact that it has been in game so long amazes me. They really need to get their bug fixes shipped out fast.

Signet of Might also has less than half the cooldown and no cast time…..

Yeah let’s see again a skill that gives 5 stacks of Stability, 50%movement increase and 25% damage increase yes that is perfect for the 1 second cast time and 60 sec CD adding 8 secs of unblockable is the stupidest thing ever, they would have to increase the CD by at least 20 secs minimum for the sake of consistency since a 6 sec unblockable is 25 CD.

This is a Bug and should have been fixed shortly after it was found.

Using the D/P Meta build, Black Powder is your Friend, you will fight in/right outside of it opposite of the Warrior when you can apply pressure, when the Warrior Pops their Endure Pain or the Passive procs you SB 5 away, and lay down poison fields in his position once the Endure Pain is up Black Powder into Steal and resume pressure, time your dodges for his Cc chain and repeat as necessary.

Critical Thinking is not necessary don’t you know? It’s all the fault of the matchmaker.

CETheLucid.3964:

Catching people with it unaware is the most OP thing about it. Make it a patch note so everyone knows it can do this and it’s suddenly not a problem.

8 seconds of utility on a 60 sec cooldown (while sacrificing the passive) really isn’t OP. It’s honestly a nice QoL buff and it’ll be a real shame to see it reverted.

The closest Skill that has Signet of the Wild is Signet of Might and that only gives 6 seconds of unblockable and doesn’t have all the other Rider effects like Stability, Damage increase and movement speed. This is clearly a bug that needs to be squashed, the fact that it has been in game so long amazes me. They really need to get their bug fixes shipped out fast.