Guild Wars 2

Warhawk.7095:

UPDATE 2 —-> The Funeral took place, and was a success. Screenshots have been posted to the thread. Let us take this time to now post pictures of our fallen thiefs and remember them as they were before these dark times.

The place: LA
The Time: 29.09.2015 9PM CEST (2PM Central US)
Contact: “Cynz.9437” if you need a taxi

Now, with all the other specs revealed, and all the cards on the table, who would be in favor of organizing an official funeral for our beloved class?

I suggest somewhere secluded and shady.

Feel free to suggest your favorite cemetery within Gw2, along with what you feel would be the most reasonable time for this event in order for people to attend and donate flowers.

im so sad i missed this. this is kittening awesome good job guys!

JoshSoCal.4516:

Hello I was just wondering if anyone could give me some helpful tips on the Thief. I never play rogue type classes in MMOs but decided to try a Thief as it looked different from other styles of rogue types. I am willingly to be patient with the class and learn a lot. Please leave any helpful hints or tips that I can use.

You can also add me in game. I’m usually on after 5pm PST as I work during the day. Thanks for all the help in advanced!

JoshSoCal.4516

just quit or go to another class. we aren’t rogues. we don’t even do that much damage. and on top of that, we only have 1 viable build… its really sad.

GrandHaven.1052:

So i am still learning thief and i have a question.

I rarely get backstabs above 6k in pvp? Am i doing something wrong or is this normal?

This isn’t vs ele or other classes with high protection uptim or frost armoe. Don’t even wanna talk about that sad number.

I am using marauder + pack runes.

0 bc you’ll die from burning/retaliation before doing any damage

Karl McLain.5604:

Lokheit.7943:

I was distracted, did they mention if Bound breaks stealth on hit when comboing? Or it will work like heartseeker? It looks great and the damage is solid, so I hope I can synergize it with my build.

It works the same as Heartseeker.

omg a dev… its been a long while

Naggar.2047:

How is this possible?

19k? did you do this on purpose with a friend or something because this is basically impossible

Ohoni.6057:

A fair point. Still, I’d contend that the forum is fairly representative of most player’s opinions (or at least, of those players who have opinions about the Tempest).

Forums are almost never representative of the game as a whole. They tend to concentrate highly engaged players, highly competitive players, and highly experimental players in higher numbers than the general population. The Tempest does not work for what a lot of those players are looking for, but that does not necessarily indicate that there are not a lot of players in game who are enjoying themselves.

And the subreddit is basically the same as the forum, just a different venue.

Also this doesn’t settle the problem just because you said so. It might for you, but fortunately people have higher standards than you do. If someone paid money to get into beta in other to provide feedback, it is their right to be heard.

Nobody is arguing that anyone shouldn’t provide feedback, just that there is constructive feedback and pointless whining, and too much of the chatter around here lately has been more of the latter than the former. Pushing for changes and features of the Tempest that you believe would improve the class is constructive, complaining that other classes are currently getting more attention, or that the devs did not phrase their response “respectfully enough” is not.

some of the monst cringy, tempest hero-ing ive ever seen.

anet fanboy to the maximum. i have the right, all day long, to yell about a broken product I PAID FOR. they are essentially brushing off the entire profession in favor of keeping a crappy, disjointed and confused elite specilization because redesigning the elite spec is hard and time consuming.

well you know what? i paid money for people to be busy working hard and taking time to make a good product. so i have the right to yell as much and as loud as i want to, along with the other 99% of the ele community, about how i paid for a product and I am not getting that said product

kitten widget.9301:

As we are thieves and we are supposed to steal, the logical evolution should be to convert the class into “The Banker” that use the long speeches about “Growing”, “Debt”, “Markets Expansion” etc as principal offensive an defensive mechanics.

The new weapon shouldn’t matter at all while it provokes “torment” and “confusion” 5 stacks each skill.

The elite traits line should have something like “hide behind politicians” you stealth yourself behind a Lord when your health reach the threshold (90%). And probably “take the money and run”, you steal all the money in foes around you and shadow step until someone else takes the blame.

Something like that, yeah.

EDIT: typos

omfg that was funny as kitten dude. lmaooooooooo
wow 110/10

Gray.9041:

uglydan.1638:

Little tid bit of info: the same dev that is responsible for Thief is also responsible for the Ele. There’s a reason why two professions hate their elite spec. Other professions are getting stuff they like, and are seeing changes done based on their feedback.

Guaranteed if Thief is playable during a BWE that any feedback we give will go unheeded. GUARANTEED.

no.

nonono.

say it isn’t so. say it’s a lie.

Tempest was bad, but Ele was already broken.

but thief? we can’t handle that kind of disappointment…

seriously? the dev doing ele does thief?

dear lord… I going to irrationally choose not to believe you because it makes me feel better

Ohoni.6057:

“Why did the Tempest only get numbers, when [other class] got all this other great stuff in BWE2?”*

I’ve seen this sort of comment come up far too often in the response to the BWE2 Tempest changes, but in case it needs spelling out, the beta is not about you. It is about improving the game as a whole, and testing various features as they move towards launch. They do not owe you a fun and fully workable class, not until launch day of HoT. That is what you paid for, for the Tempest to be fun on launch day, and not a minute before. Anything else they offer you is bonus.

So if you aren’t satisfied with where the Tempest is at right now, that’s fine. Certainly let them know that, and explain why you don’t like it, and how they can change it. That’s all useful feedback.

But if you feel upset that the Tempest is not great right now, then too bad. If you are upset because some classes got more substantial changes between BWE1 and 2, then too bad. It is not their job, nor should it be, to make sure that every class is equally represented at all phases in beta. Count your blessings, people who main four of the classes haven’t even gotten to try theirs yet.

As the BWEs move forward, class balancing will move at a constantly shifting pace. Some betas, class A will see significant improvements, and class B will see relatively nonsense tweaks. Others, class A will get very little and class B will get some major stuff. Just because a class only gets minor tweaks between two beta windows, does not mean that they have given up on the class or that it won’t eventually see major changes, it just means that the sort of development time that it would take to make those major changes is not available for that beta window, or that other projects take priority.

That is a GOOD thing, to do otherwise would mean wasting a lot of time and attention trying to make sure that if child 1 gets a toy, child 2 must get an equally cool toy or he’ll throw a fit in the store. Sometimes people need to grow up and learn to be patient.

If the changes they are making to the Tempest in BWE2 do not appeal to you, that’s fine. You don’t have to play the Tempest over that weekend if you totally don’t like the class. Play a standard kit Elementalitst in the new content, see how that works out. Or maybe try out one of the other classes, BWE2 will likely have all the BWE1 stuff, plus probably 2-4 new classes, and Glint, so give those a go. Or if you absolutely can’t be bothered to test out HoT in anything less than a perfect Tempest, then just play the normal game that weekend. They’re all valid options.

But the point is, the beta weekends are not about you, they are not about making sure that your intended class is the absolute most important thing at every phase in development. The betas are there to test the game, and to make ALL the classes and content the best it can be, and that process is not always evenly paced. Get over it.

*and for the record, the reason is likely because they’d been working on a lot of that other stuff already, and just had to pull the trigger on it, but they don’t have any major Tempest changes ready at the moment, but are certainly working on it at some level.

a lot of work to troll everyone…
not too successful, but it was funny lol.

“its not about you, even though you spent $50-$100 on a product and when you (and the rest of the elementalist community) determined you got a disfigured, horrific version of that product you paid for, you got mad, but you shouldnt be because its not about you or your money or your experience – its about Anet shoving whatever piece of disfigured confusion down your throat, whether you like it or not.”

haha good one man, i admit, i got mad before i realized you were trollin us xD xD xd ex d +1

Serious Thought.5394:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/What-I-d-like-to-see-when-Thief-gets-checked – some more EXTREMELY impressive balance suggestions. great work boys

I’M FAMOUS WOOHOO!

It was good kitten man. I don’t know why devs don’t respond to such great ideas with even a “we will take note of this” or something.

Did all the thief devs die? Like are they ok? I see revenant get constant feedback from Roy. I see elementalist (albeit terrible balancing and blatant ignoring of an entire community’s worth of feedback) they actually have a dev, who is alive and a human being with a brain and can type, doing balance. Necro clearly has great devs – they loved their update on the reaper/greatsword. same with guardian.

philheat.3956:

1) Elite spec not announced. Probably it will be the last (before of after the Druid) This means less time to improve/test it, less BWE.

2) Anti stealth skills everywhere.

Revenant – Gaze Of Darkness, Unyelding Anguish (anti sr- anti bp)
Guardian – Light’s Judgement
Ranger – Sick’em, taunt
Engi – Lock on, Analyze

Stealth needs some counter but is the main defensive thief source. If Anet doesn’t compensate with something else, thief will slowing die.

3) Not other build viable except for d/p. D/p itself is fine but has lost a lot of 1vs1 potentiality relegating thief in a +1 or decap role (and it’s not always possible, it depends a lot of your team strength, how solid it is)

Just to clarify this, I love to play Thief and i don’t want to play an OP class but a versatile class. Atm is not possible, too limited role, there is a lack of defense and builds.

lets be kittening real: after years of neglect like the red headed step child we are, do you think a few months of BWE input would of mattered? or would 2 weeks and 2 months be exactly the same amount of development/balancing?

mhmmmm…

Look, after seeing the “changes” done to tempest for the next BWE & the fact that you need to look over TWENTY pages back to find a single dev response to any thief post/thread, thank the GODS that revenant is cool.

double sword, kitten mace/axe combos, and ACTUAL BALANCE FROM PLAYER IMPUT!?!?!

I know so many elementalists who are bailing out of their garbage ele/tempest profession due to lack of response… thief is the same way and its obvious. we get no response, no clarification, no communication, nothing. most of the people who will read this thread are maining thief and love this class like i do and have for YEARS since the first beta weekend event. but the destruction of professions like thief/lack of updates is absolutely appalling.

here comes the mass exodus from trash tier, forgotten about classes like thief to actually evolving and living classes like mezer, guardian, revenant.

here are some resources for actual ideas if any dev accidentally stumbles into our forums:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Left-in-the-Dark-an-Open-Letter-to-our-Devs/first#post5392102 – thief consensus on the class

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/State-of-Thief/first#post5391952 – current meta use of the thief class

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Face-it-Thief-sucks – how we all try to enjoy thief but immediately regret having faith in anet

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Which-Thief-Skills-Need-Improvements/first#post5389092vvvvvvvvvvv -ACTUAL feeback. some of the best ive ever seen actually. i commend everyone in this thread for doing the dev’s work for them. impressive stuff

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/What-I-d-like-to-see-when-Thief-gets-checked – some more EXTREMELY impressive balance suggestions. great work boys

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Plus-1-is-NOT-a-Role/first#post5392080 – how +1ing is not a profession, but an attribute

the last time a dev said anything in this wasteland: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief?page=21

Azel.4786:

Bloodyx.5946:

wait is this real? you guys didnt touch the elites, cantrips, traits…. you just buffed damage?!

someone, is this fake?

The majority of us wish it was fake.

The majority of us are wishing that we can wake up tomorrow and read a “haha got you! Here are the real changes”

The majority of us are hoping they didn’t dismiss our several pages of feedback and basically told us to kitten off.

Reality though is harsh. This is the truth. This is what we get for trying to provide feedback.

And most importantly, this is what we get for pre-ordering.

Lesson learned.

“hey lee, I know you sweep the floors here at Arenanet’s building, but could you stay a little after hours to balance a part of our game called the elementalist? I’ll give you a $20 and buy you coffee in the morning. you da man bro”

wait is this real? you guys didnt touch the elites, cantrips, traits…. you just buffed damage?!

someone, is this fake?

Kocoff.7582:

Dear Devs Teams, Mr. Robert Gee, Karl McLain, and Roy Cronacher,

Guildwars2 is great game. By far the best MMORPG I ever played and even though I seldom take breaks from it, I am always in awe when I come back. This time however, the changes were so drastic, I am afraid Thieves cannot cope with it anymore.

The situation
Weeks after months, all we read in the Thief’s forum is about how broken and frustrated we all are. I am sure you noticed how few S/D thieves there are, and how most of us had to painfully adapt to D/P gameplay. 90% of thieves I see are D/P, making us extremely predictable and mundane. P/P players nowadays are like myths, so are P/D and S/P

Please read our forum. Just the titles will suffice. We stopped making videos of how crazy our skills are in Outnumbered situations. All you will find nowadays is a huge amount of feedback of how unreliable the Acrobatics trait is, how other professions completely took over our roles or how stolen skills or weapons skill are truly out of sync at the PvE, PvP or WvW level. We LOVE the Thief so much, that there is an entire guild [TEEF] dedicated to helping new Thief/players and pointing out the core issues with traits, helping with constructive feedbacks.

I know that no matter what you do, I will adapt and play my Thief. I personally deleted 4 of my characters just to focus on this one. Not to mention the increasing number of threads about people switching professions for good. You do not want that, and neither do we.
What we do have in common however, is have all professions strengthened and balanced long before HoT release.

Conclusion
We saw how transparent you were with the Necromancer and Revenants forums. We also see increasingly menacing skills that obliterate Stealth Mechanic. So, I ask that once again, you explain what it is you want from this profession and where it is heading because we feel doomed and ignored. Even a simple « hello » would be fine with me to be honest.

I am sure you can explain what it is you are doing without revealing major secrets things like elite specs, etc. Please, I do not want all my fellows thieves and myself to have all their efforts undermined just because of synergy and communication problems.

I refuse to sit idle any longer and calmly wait for a Thief Elite Spec simply because the issues we are facing now will NOT be solved by having a new weapon, I also refuse to believe that Anet just decided to nerf Thieves "to the ground » for no reason.

With all due respect, please let us know the current situation or problems you are facing and proves us wrong.

the thief community is 100% behind you man.
you’re doing god’s work for our beloved, but maligned profession

Orpheal.8263:

Healing & Utilities:

• Hide In Shadows: should get Cool Down reduced from 30s to 25s and should cure also Torment

• Signet of Malice : should receive on its activation the effect, that it steals your enemies Healing Skill instead and sets it on Cool Down. The passive Healing needs also a little buff of say 20% more. Increase therefore the Cooldown to 20s

• Skelk Venom: Needs its CD reduced to 30s its duraction therefore decreased to 20s Hits by Skelk Venom should heal slightly lesser, therfore shoudl deal Hits with Skelk Venom on the Condition Slow. Reduce the amount of charges from 5 to 3

• Withdraw should count as Stun Breaker also. Increase the Cooldown from 18 to 20s
  ——

• Merge of Blinding Powder and Smoke Screen with the CD of Smokescreen. Using Smokescreen blocks Projectiles and makes you go into Stealth then, when you place it directly at your location. Smokescreen is now a Ground target Skill

• Merge of Shadowstep with Infiltrators Signet by turning the active effect of Infiltrator Signet to exactly the effect of the Skill Shadowstep, that you ss to a foe and when you return to your positiion, you lose 3 condtions and then the Signet begins to recharge.

• Merge Signet of Shadows with Signet of Agility:
  Passive:
  Grants 25% increased movement speed and Precision based on your level
  Active: You gain for a short while Super Speed and you lose a Condition that you give to your targeted enemy. if you have at that moment no Condition, then you blind the foe.

• Assassins Signet. Reduce Cooldown to 30s like all other Utility Signets. Increase the 15% Damage to 20%, so that you actually deal also more damage, because you lose at the moment of the activation also alot of Power..so its kind of counterproductive to lose power for gaining more attack damage, when increase of damage doesn’t really outweight the lost power …
  You gain now also Fury on activation for 10s!

• Ambush is now useable under water and lets you directly summon for a while a helping thief npc that will use Spear Skills.

• In General are all traps now useable also under water, they turn into Mines when used under water, which automatically explode, if enemies get too near to them and deal aoe damage.

So: Needle Trap = Needle Mine
So: Shadow Trap =Shadow Mine that works under water a bit differently, then on land, here it will be an underwater aoe blindness with teleport to marked by it foes that let it explode
So: Trip Write = Shock Mine, causing foes to sink or getting stunned either

• Haste and Roll for Initiative: should get merged for that 60s of cooldown…

• All Venoms should be moved and merged to F3 and F4
  Skale Venom + Spider Venom = Neurotoxic Venom for F3
  Devourer Venom and Frostdrake Venom = Paralyzing Venom for F4

Elite

• Dagger Storm: It should give the Thief also besides of Stability either Protection or Resistance in that time to make it harder to remove Stability so simple to instantly interrupt that Elite with a single stupid boon removing fear >.< where Stability should protect you from this crap, so that a fear actually removes only the protection/resistance instead of the Stability.

• Thieves Guild: Improve the Skill Sets of them, let them attack faster, give them better A.I to evade attacks to survive better and most especially, let their attacks remove boons. Reduce also the Cooldown from 180s to 120s

• Remove Basilisk Venom from the game and replace it with a complete new Elite Skill, like one that resembles a bitt to the kits from the Engineer to allow it the Thief to exchange their weapons skills with Kunais, large Wind Spirit Shurikens and normal small Shurikens and so on, to pack out the “Assassin Throwing Weapons” practically, letting this Elite drop 1 of 3 random Weapon Kits, which you use then to exchange out with them your Weapon Skill Bar.

1: Shuriken Set = Medium Ranged Conditions
2: Kunai Set = Medium Ranged Critical Direct Damage
3: Dual Swords Set = Melee Ranged Hybrid with Mobility.

This way would the Thief receive some more Skill Versability and would become a bit more unpredictable, if they could use with that Elite some powerful Assassin Weapons.

And finalls use all the potial created by the skill mergesto fill in the end the created gaps with some cool new and useful skills that complement the Thief Class.

Holy kitten you should be a balance dev.

This is feedback im talking about right here. too bad anet is too weak and incompetent to make any changes for years, let alone real changes like this.

Kidel.2057:

I trust ANet

lol nice one.

cele ele
burn guardians ARE INSANE…. i have no idea why they are allowed to exist. they are extremely broken.

you’re doing gods work yolong swggers

man guarded initiation and swindlers need help… the entire acrobatics line needs help from what it looks like, something many people already intuitively understood

Odyssey.2613:

The reason for so many views with no official response is because like many of us have pointed out, there are severe flaws in the Dev teams logic and thinking. Anet’s left hand doesn’t know what the right is doing.

So instead of contradicting themselves further in kitten, the Justin Bieber-hairdo-sporting-emo-adults will continue to do what they do, further ruining a once great game with their misguided sense of fun and lack of logic.

I’m sure an over zealous mod will come by and ban me a 6th time for saying the truth.
Or a contradictory white knight will come by and try to tell me how wrong my opinion is because… their “feels”. Oh well. Either way it’s bound to be more fun than the heap of a grindy, unbalanced mess GW2 has become. I’ve quit going on a month now with 0 regrets. Wish I would have done it 1.5 years sooner with the rest of my guild/friends list!

all of my this. 100% and as the forum moderators come around, they will nod their head and silently agree lol then keep on movin along

Gray.9041:

I was wondering – how much real dev interaction is there where thief is concerned? I ask for three reasons:

• thief is, most people agree, in need of a fair number of serious changes, which don’t seem to have been addressed in what could be years.

• I had to go back 20 pages to find a thread with a dev comment on it, and said comment was a clarification, not feedback, not acknowledgement.

• after seeing the excellent work Roy Cronacher on the revenant – the discussions going on, the feedback from both players and developers, and the general speed with which concerns are addressed, I really think this sort of thing is exactly what the profession needs.

so how much interaction do we get? and what’s the chances of getting anything like the latter point above?

+1

this thread needs to be joined extremely quickly by the devs (i know they wont)
but thief is basically a handicapped mesmer/warrior/revenant.

I hope we get some attention, but we haven’t gotten any help in years. i am just waiting to see this specialization… rifle or staff… both seem terrible

Gray.9041:

I’d say it could cover a number of areas. firstly, I think your appraisal of current weapon uses is narrow. for conditions, I’d say dual daggers is better (poison on 1 and bleed on 3, also cripple on 4 if we’re counting non-damaging) than pistol main (bleed on 1 and immobilise on 2, if we count non-damaging ) but that aside, i’ll try and see what the staff could bring:

• Sustained High DPS – like a warrior’s greatsword.

• Burst DPS – it exists, but the only thing better than redundancy is redundancy

• Decent condition stacking – something we don’t really have, D/D and P/D only have about 2 damaging conditions each, and burning’s the only good condition now anyway (much as I hate the fact)

• Control. pistol offhand only has daze. (blind’s not really control) we could have a knockback, a knockdown, some kind of uncrossable barrier. none of which we get right now.

• Mobility/Evasion – again, sword has some. we could get dashes, distortion, full evades (troll poll perhaps?) or even an unrelenting assault-style high-movement move.

• Defensive – the staff could have blocks, grant protection/aegis/heals. defense is one area the thief is incredibly weak.

or Anet could surprise us with something else entirely. we won’t know until we see.
the other point is that the staff could easily be made to do any of the existing things better. we’re not really great at anything more than burst DPS, so we could see improvements in almost any area.

what sustain could we have with a thief’s armor and HP?
or are we supposed to run solider’s amulet and be a crappy GS warrior?

i doubt staff would bring us anything useful because it just simply doesn’t jive with our talents, design, ect ect.

OneKlicKill.4285:

They cant nerf cele d/d without breaking the class. Because its designed horribly. Tempest was their once chance to make another viable play style that wouldnt be effected by d/d cele and the blew it so hard it sounded like a WH

lmao. great commment when i realized it was you lmao

Talyn Sneider.1825:

Ok, I’ve had it with all the hate…so I’m gonna address some of the accusations being throw around against eles and hope this helps people appreciate were not monsters but players.

On this past weeks I’ve been playing conquest and dueling against pretty much every class out there, my skill level is normal (not an ubber player, so i can represent every elementalist jumping on the hype train, and so you know ele is my main since forever). In this weeks I’ve been insulted, accused of cheating, received rude comments due to asking for practice vs experienced players (God forgive u ask to practice defensive moves while playing D/D)..and even so I came here so I can at least try to separate fact from fiction:

1) Eles are OP

Yes we are, at this moment we have (always had great sustain) and we also manage to deal tons of damage (burning) and also we shine in team fights and can drag fights on points as we see fit.

2) Burning damage is OP on ele

Yes it is, would love to see it reduced (less burn stacks so we don’t destroy condition based builds), we shouldn’t have so much dps as an attrition class

3)Eles have too many sustain

STOP! NO just no…this game is already fast and furious enough…we need some classes to be able to be on point and not melt in 10 seconds flat to a spike…we and guardian bunkers are needed and have a role to play…what we shouldn’t have is sustain and DPS.

4)Eles require no skill, u just need to learn to learn combos and there u go

Are u kidding me???? u need to keep track of cooldowns know when and where not to skip rotations to avoid/deal a spike and return to optimal rotation, u need to manage the smallest health pool of the game knowing that when you’re spiked u have about 10 seconds to react or your dead…I don’t ask for u guys to love eles but this is just wonkers…until the latest balance patch we were considered one of the hardest classes to play and no one contested this…balance patch hits and we no longer take skill…righttttttt

5)PU mesmers and stealth regen thiefs that say that healing on ele is cheesy….

Come on guys…seriously? Seems to me there’s no difference in outhealing while kitting or disappearing and regen health as you need thus resetting the fight.

6)D/D eles win every duel…

Not true at all but we can drag fights so reinforcement come and thus turn a 1vs1 into a team fight…that is our ROLE. Several matchups are pretty bad for us:

PU mesmers
Shatter mesmers
Berzerker thiefs
Berzerker warriors
Condition and celestial necros

If they know what they are doing they are able to out pressure the ele forcing us to play for time, eventually in a 1 vs 1 duel they will gain the upper hand.

7) Warriors on duels that complain when an ele ports to safety in a duel

Ok…I can see where u come from If i stand there in your face u can kill me
faster…but…ermmm hope you don’t take this the wrong way, against you guys we need to kite…and hit when there’s no pressure on us. That is kinda the standard, mesmers do it, thiefs do it…why all the hate when an ele does it too? I also have an warrior and when i face an enemy that doesn’t port and kite i get annoyed because i know that isn’t a good duel, and if I’m dueling i want to fight good players so i can learn.

Cheers and have fun

berserker thieves? “pressure” on eles? dude, lmao you lost me man.
you leap into battle and die instantly to eles if you run zerker….

you’re doing god;s work yolog sweggers

why do mesmers even get stealth? isn’t that a thief thing? who made that decision? thief is basically a kitten warrior, revenant, mesmer…

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Everything in the game is balanced except Eles & Mesmers.
It’s Eles & Mesmers that need nerfing.
Other classes do not need to be buffed.

if you think thieves having 1 build is balance then cool. otherwise we have nothing else to do, just like lelementalists

Metabrit.1839:

I’ll start off by saying revenant has very much improved since the last beta and well done to Roy and the other staff working on it. Loving mace/axe i think its in a very good place at the moment and popping impossible odds for simply moving around with super speed is great. However it still lacks the ability to keep up with the other professions competitively:

1. Other Utilities PLEASE, seriously make this happen because a revenant cannot compete when locked into the utilities it has. Other professions can use any utility at any time and you never know which ones they will be using, with a revenant you see the legend and instantly know the skills and how to combat them, there’s not enough choice to make it truly viable or competitive. Some of the skills just lack impact at all anyways, I found myself only using one or two from each legend apart from Malyx which is the best by far. For example, The elite of Jalis does not feel impactful enough for me to ever use it, personally I think it should be changed. Other skills such as the shadowstep on shiro and chain on Jalis just aren’t worth the cost for a 2 second slow and taunt. Which brings me to the next point…

2. Removing energy costs from weapons: or at least reduce it, using any kind of utility already depletes the energy enough and it really hinders the revenant’s abilities. It would also be nice to reduce the energy cost of some utilities e.g. the chain on Jalis as previously stated. The traits don’t give enough survivability to revenant to actually sustain damage when energy is depleted.

3. Not enough condi cleanse, Malyx is the only chance of surviving a condi build in PvP, Ventari’s mechanic is too clumsy to use and the other legends or trait lines simply don’t have enough to come close to fighting celestial eles or engis.

4. Sword: Auto-attack is clunky and feels wrong, skill 2 is basically useless, make skill 3 on sword evade, skill 4 for sword needs its block fixing, skill 5 costs too much energy imo

5. Shiro heal skill basically feels like we don’t have one, I’m a fan of the shiro legend but the heal skill has made me remove it from my build and swap to Jalis/Malyx. I understand the design for it but in a practical environment it simply isn’t enough. The elite skill for shiro is fun but uses all the energy available so you can’t actually do much while they are stunned yourself, just have to use it at the right time for the team to take them down. (Also the elite has a tendancy to bug character animations on down state trait, not sure about normally?)

6. Jalis is supposed to be the tanky legend but the skills just offer stability and an easily-interrupted damage reduction. Tanky builds offer protection and regen which it completely lacks, I use it mainly for the stability and swiftness buffs along with the best heal skill revenant has. The hammer upkeep is ok, maybe add a buff while it is active (possible protection or regen?)

As far as hammer, staff and ventari go I haven’t done much testing with it. I will try to tomorrow to add to this but those are my overall impressions. I have played the story instance 3 times on rev, dragonhunter and reaper and the difference was insane. dragonhunter was a lot easier, somewhat due to learning the new enemy attacks, and reaper just absolutely tore through them with no difficulty or problems. I love the mechanics of revenant and the interaction with the legends so please take this into consideration <3

Keep up the good work, hopefully Roy get’s around to reading

I agree with a lot of this.

Anet needs to remove energy cost on weapon abilites – it’s too debilitating to use a single combo and be done for 5 or 6 seconds until you build up your energy again.

sunnypsyop.3025:

Thieves get the same thing in PW with a daze AND evade on top of it… oh, and better damage.

Why are we playing Sword Rev again…???

lmao no, theives don’t get an evade

ronpierce.2760:

I quit pvping for a mix of reasons.

- Balance is wonky.
- Damage is too high.
- Classes are becoming watered down, losing definition.
- Still no 2v2 and 3v3.****

It’s a great game, just getting boring without the highly demanded arena, and needs a lot of work after the last shake up. Still have hope though…

omg so much this.

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Nerf mesmer, nerf elementalist, nerf burn, nerf rampage, nerf engineers, Nerf everything.

Guys can we just all calm down. and rather discuss how to counter those supposedly OP builds? Can we make a thread in which we dedicate it to discussions of builds and showcase how to counter the current meta? Instead of just crying nerf, Because for the Love of it. I really cannot fathom what the problem is. Mesmers became just a tad bit stronger post patch, elementalist are noticably stronger in terms of damage sustain but still beatable. And the thing is. I’m just rank 60 plus, my winrate is still roughly 50/50. I’m not an high tier player. I do not frequently do pvp. My friends who run warrior, necromancer, ranger do not get thier kitten stomped in. And when they do use the OP classes such as mesmer and elementalist, they still regularly lose to warriors, guardians, rangers. So are we just that good? Or do we all happen to constantly fight against noobs? Or are we just average players who fight players at a variety of levels? We also aren’t a premade team.

The last option seems to be the most plausible. I just don’t get it. When people say how they got 50 kittening k of burn ticks, or got a 20 k burst of mesmer, and got constantly stunned. Or cannot catch the mesmer or lock them down at all,Or somehow can’t kill an elementalist with even 2 or 3 people on point. My question is: What the kitten are you guys doing? Do you not run any condi cleanses, do you not run any resistance or berserker stance? Do you not have any runes that diminish cond duration? Do you not convert condi’s into boons? Do you not have any cc or lockdowns? no immobilize? no chill, weakness or cripple? Do you guys just stand there and take it? Do guys not retreat or go out of line of sight? No you guys cannot all be this bad. I take it the majority of players are just players just like me that play pvp from time to time, maby with friends sometimes.

Yet I and the people I acosiate with, not just friends but also enemiy player, or people i see on hotjoin. aren’t suffering from those 50 k burnthings, perma stealth or a 20 k mesmer burst. or perma blind.

So what do i think that the problem is? The problem mainly lies within the builds. I’m not calling the meta perfect because i’ve seen people who come with constructive critism. for example people suggesting for diamond skin to be resistance based, or perhaps removing stability from rampage. Capping stealth to 5 seconds. I may not agree with all of them. These kind of critisms are way different then idiots actually wishing for a mesmer to not use stealth or to nerf a kitten class in full. I do not want for A-net to be given misinformation and go in with over the top nerfs or balance changes when it’s not needed. Changes like that are quite expensive as they affect the whole game, not just pvp.

So this is what I propose. We showcase our builds. No matter what side you are on. dicuss it weaknesses, it’s pro’s and cons how it stacks up to other classes. I mainly want to classes that are generally considered to suffer from the current ’’meta’’ classes or builds that have trouble with mesmer and elemtalists you are free to join. I welcome every class. Rampage warriors come on out.

Also inb4 i get called out on bieng a mesmer that get’s carried by his build. Well no. Í main guardian as a first, engineer as a sec and mesmer as 3rd option. I have nothing to hide.

Well I will start. And showcase my celestial hybrid guardian.

I’m reaching out to you guys. I’m even willing to test my build against yours, tell u my weaknesses and everything. Spread the word guys. Instead of me bieng a ’’L2P’’ scrub, I will now open myself to scrutiny. and hopefully we can change the community for the better.^^

people already do this dude. people break stuff down all the time.

your post seems reactionary and frantic. cruise through ele, thief ect forums and people most of the time have great arguments and cases for their views. besides trolls and idiots, you are wrong to paint the community in the way you did

Cynz.9437:

i am personally close to quiting this game completely (after the playing this patch for a while), expansion is out of question already…. i think the answer is pretty clear

pvp community is just small part of netire community and forum posters are even smaller number so i don’t think that any of our opinion matters

people who enjoy the game don’t post on forums, they play it

this is my sentiment as well…

S/D thief is basically unviable and thanks to Anet we now have exactly 1 thing to do: d/p. So that’s fun. I swapped to a warrior because of how versatile and easy they are to demolish people.

The S/S build is so kittening tight. WHY HAVEN’T THIEVES GOT SOMETHING LIKE THIS ANET? S/S is something the entirety of the thief community has wanted for FIVE YEARS. Are you so elitist Anet that you think you know better what we want than we do?

Honestly, with the release of Tempest and the bad to the straight up bizarre choices by the various dev teams, I want to know who is in charge over there at Anet. Who OK’d warhorn for eles? Who is pushing Stronghold as a game mode? Why is thief getting a rifle or staff? Where is this coming from?

I do not understand what is going on.

At the very least, make S/x (preferably sword/dagger) viable in sPVP. You guys give away S/S to revenant and make the trait lines constantly have the word “assassin” in it, but thieves get shafted.

This is the most disorientating development cycle of any game I’ve ever seen. Are there just not enough employees at Anet? Does Anet just have a terrible decision making system?

Anet, you guys already have us watching and waiting, why not just listen to your community and actually make a great game? You guys ask us for feedback and use basically none of it unless there’s something egregiously broken.

Am I a kitten and alone in feeling this way or not?

Bryzy.2719:

Just had a look at the Tempest and christ does that look like a boring kitten effort by Anet lmao… I’ve been poised ready to insta-80 an ele based on its elite spec, but not going to bother now.

On the other hand, I’ve always mained a Ranger so if it turns out Druid is just as sucky then I guess I won’t be the one with the last laugh :’)

I agree with this guy. And there’s NOTHING elitist about complaining about a class you kittening PAID FOR with your MONEY they ought to give you good service but when its trash, people have every right to say so because they paid GOOD MONEY for that service.

Anet drops the ball more times than ought to be allowed. Although, I am starting to see less and less and less and less people defend their decisions, especially with tempest.

IGN: Bloodyx
Playstyle: sPVP
Server: Stormbluff Isle
Experience with thief: Was invited to initial beta weekend in like summer of 2010 I think. Played 1-shot kill backstab build – was the best time ever in this game. Now I play SD juke-y screw around playstyle.

Like I’ve been saying since beta tho, thieves have no real sense of self. We aren’t assassins ganking people (DP is the closest to this but still weird in feeling) we aren’t bruisers who stun and survive, we aren’t trappers because we got nerfed and because traps I feel are like an addon to our utilities for Anet to say “here, we tried” we aren’t rogues who outsmart our opponents while relying heavily on stealth, we aren’t swashbuckler-y types who can actually use mainhand pistol or PP.

To me, thieves always have had an identity crisis by Anet never defining what we are supposed to be doing.

So I sPVP and try to make the best of it like most people do. Been going on for 5 years now and I’m pretty dead on the inside. Extremely dissapointed by staff or rifle that Anet will likely throw at us for the expansion instead of OH sword and then I’ll quit again.

i pray to god they give us offhand sword
they kittened eles so hard with warhorn. i feel so bad for them

Drennon.7190:

Yeah, they should totally scrap a game mode and map that people enjoy. Maybe they can refund the man hours and purchases those super cool 2v2 and 3v3 maps. Seems legit.

Your first suggestion wasn’t bad though. Just want to point out how moronic your second one was. Cause you know? Why not?

Lmao I spy a fanboy.

How about they actually work on things pvpers want? Incredibly new idea, I know. He pointed out, through sarcasm, that Anet doesn’t seem to understand its pvp players, so it would seem that actually your post was moronic and unproductive – commenting on something you didn’t understand is pretty moronic and name calling is pretty unproductive.

Nema Tode.5637:

First I want to make sure everyone understands I play almost exclusively as a thief, so this change affects me too.

So, as many have probably discovered, a player will now be revealed for 2 seconds exiting stealth if they do not attack during it. It may or may not be a bug since it was not announced in the update post. It also has other bugs associated with it, like shadow refuge no longer stealthing as long as it used to due to its pulsing nature. Anyways, the concept of revealing even if the player does nothing is a good and needed change.

The thing I want you all to understand here is that this idea does not hinder aggressive play, and it hurts strategies that many people complain about. Using dagger/pistol for the purpose of regenerating in stealth will no longer work as it used to, and sword/dagger thieves will also be unable to immobilize and CnD repeatedly. The list can go on, such as timing CnD to stealth again without even giving the opponent a second to react, and even using it on an object or a mob in the world multiple times. The change isn’t even only limited to thieves. Mesmers will now have to wait before using veil twice.

The theme here is the change will only affect strategies that use stealth excessively to regenerate large amount of health, prolong an encounter, troll, or simply be a pain to fight.

Yes there are bugs surrounding the change and yes the change may be a bug itself. I am not advocating that things stay as they are right now. But the idea of revealing for 2 seconds even if the player does not attack is a change that should be here to stay.

TL:DR No more turtling in stealth, thoughts?

no disagree. initiative is our mechanic that prevents us from abusing stealth cnd costs 5. you cant repeatedly cnd + sword 1 (which isnt immo its a daze and only 1 second).

plus you cant “turtle” in stealth, you can get hit and get AOEd in stealth. plus channeled spells just keep on channeling in stealth as someone casted them before the thief stealthed.

the nerfs to thieves are going to ruin the class. we already have a hard enough time. the effort that goes in to kills and winning games is tremendous and this is just enough godkitten hurtle

Cynz.9437:

gonna drop some salt here: probably because thieves were using it too :P

it didnt do anything to thieves…

nightblood.7910:

I generally dont like duels. They really have no meaning to real fights in WvW or PvP as I Play a thief and the element of surprise is part of my playstyle. (especially WvW where thieves can one shot each other for the most part) And if you try to duel other thieves, its almost always them trying to jack you while you are bowing. I pretty much gave up on duels myself but sure as heck do not run from a 1v1 in PvP. As that is where I am mostly.

With that said, the reason I dont agree with it, is that its just another grieving model to this game that is not needed. Especially the “public” duel. If the person does not accept the duel it will be public shaming for not doing so and so on.. If they do and get beat, it will be even worse.

no ones cares if you dont like dueling because dueling is optional.

dont like dueling? dont duel.

style.6173:

and how is that different than a 3v5 on any map? This is not specific to courtyard.

because everyone hates courtyard…. i rarely ever get 3v5 or 4v5 on any maps in unraked. i get a 4v5 nearly every courtyard game. most of my friends instant close gw2 and surf the internet if courtyard randomly chosen.

it IS specific to courtyard.

Everyone in the entire world already knows the list:

1. Kylo <- great
2. Niflhel/Foefire <- fun/good
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3. Silent Storm <-meh, OK map
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5. Spirit Watch <- terrible map design, annoying, makes me want to stop playing
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6. Skyhammer <- easily one of the worst. basically all other map flaws put together
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7. Courtyard <- torture in everyway. immediate disconnect, AFK, or exit game

Eliteseraph.4970:

THE SCEPTER THIEF (Con-Man)

lulz

lmao. scepter scepter dual skill: con job

Honestly, its stressful and not very fun. The ammount of effort you have to put into thieves to get damage and survive is insane compared to turret enginner (any engineer really), or power ranger or sword dagger ranger or shoutbow or any guardian spec.

to answer your question: they are in the same weird nerfed confused place they’ve always been in.

Toxsa.2701:

I’ll repeat this for a thousandth time..
L2P… Seriously… L2P….
It can not even be considered burst because it takes 2.5 seconds to complete the cycle…
A well timed shatter and axe f1 takes 0.5 second to complete. Yes this skill it’s EXACTLY like Warrior’s Volley, just slightly higher damage coefficient and longer range.
However I never see anyone complain about Volley before.

It is also one of the bursts that is almost always able to counter and dodge portion of the damage. It is also one of the bursts that can easily be blocked for full duration, and also very predictable.

I’ll do an accurate guess that most newbies suffer from: You guys lose to ranger not because RF damage too high, it’s because ranger himself is able to outperform you by doing well timed CC/ Stealth, and make consistent damage through reliable AA because you guys do not close gap on ranger and let him keep on dps you from range. Usually when I find a fight a challenge as Ranger is when I find some more aggressive type of play-style that gap close me consistently and leaves me no room to breathe.

that was one of the dumbest/most ignorant posts ive ever seen on gw2 forums lmao. well done good friend. let the salt run through everyone’s veins. especially the learn to play bullkitten mantra haha well done. i really hope this was intentional because it was kittenin funny dude

Andred.1087:

McNinja.5417:

TL; DR: I can’t be excited if I have nothing to be excited about.

Who cares? You’re still going to buy the expansion. Correct me if I’m wrong.

no we aren’t going to buy a kittenty expansion for a 3 year old game. they need to prove its worth the money. they arent doing that. OP is spot on skrublet

can something be broken that doesnt exist?

this is exactly correct.

10/10 thread. for christ sake anet read this post…

you make people here feel so utterly frustrated to the point of quitting.

this is 100% on you. we bought the game. we supported the game for years.