Guild Wars 2

Have a friend that said he’s doing less damage than he was VS targets above 50% with low condi damage, but more damage than VS below 50% with roughly ~1500-1600 condi damage.

Don’t have exact numbers tho,

Kordash.2197:

Kraggy.4169:

AndrewMcLeod.3857:

We disabled these upgrades because we don’t want everyone to have to be constantly changing the upgrades in their gear based on what they’re fighting in the raid in order to be optimal. These upgrades are bad to equip unless you’re fighting the specific enemy type, and we don’t want to create the situation where it’s optimal to swap out for Sigils of Ghost Slaying to fight through the spirit woods, then switch sigils when you get to Gorseval, then equip Sigils of Justice for Sabetha, and then swap out for whatever sigils you usually use when you leave the raid.

The hardcore elitist raiders are going to whine about this, this sort of min/maxing is exactly what they like doing because it gives them something to look down on others who for whatever reason aren’t able to tote dozens of fight-specific bling and buff items.

I applaud you for doing it.

You must be new here.

Actually, most of them like this kind of changes. It is more than welcome IMO.

If anything, it takes away the ability for non-hardcore elitists to cheese it with them.

I seriously doubt a bowbear team would even have the mental capacity to even enter a raid or tie their shoes, let alone beat a boss.

If you complain about not getting the most rewards, tough. Optimize your build or find the right team.

That’s how a meta is made, because anything that doesn’t give full rewards is a waste of time

Nova Stiker.8396:

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

This guy is mad about DPS Checks but is okay with, and actually suggests, that teams that “defeat a boss in under 5 minutes are triple rewarded”. Are you seriously that naive?

You know what will happen? Exactly what you tried to foolishly stop on your first point.

No one wants to get 1/3 of the rewards.

Another fundamental flaw in your logic: by adding 3x the rewards if the boss is completed in <X minutes, that means your Boss is already nerfed by default.

A raid boss should be extremely difficult to kill. The challenge shouldnt lie in killing him in less that X time. Thats just downleveling yout encounter that was supposed to be extremely hard in the first place.

No one wants to get 1/3rd of the rewards. Get your friends, get your guild and coordinate for maximum efficiency.
Then again, no one wants to be kicked from every raid group because they don’t think your condi-trap ranger is viable.

They are two entirely different entities.

---

The issue with combat design and difficulty is you must design it to be beaten, if the conditions of victory is to strict, it becomes to hard. Another reason why DPS checking is just an artificial difficulty, adding a strict condition to a challenge because it can be beaten with good coordination.

Eventually, people will fall into dominant strategy when a raid meta is not only born but mastered quickly. If you want to prevent that, you want challenges that can beaten in any timely manor but also reward the groups that preform the best.

This is where DPS checking fails on many levels, they are just pointless.

The more room you allow for error, the more people can join in a raid and in contrast, the more mistakes that can be made and the less of a chance for a firm meta to be born.

This does NOT mean things will not be hard.
___________________________________________________________

Fun note: I actually got infracted for posting this in the wrong forum, I knew there was a dungeon forum but not for raids. Still though, I really hope ArenaNet isn’t looking at this and heavily disagreeing with everything being said here.

People will be kicked no matter how hard or easy the content is, not much is going to change that fact. People get kicked from AC groups just because they are a certain class, so that doesn’t give me much hope with raid groups. If a group does have good coordination, then they should be able to beat any enrage timer, seeing that proper builds and group composition is also part of of it. There will still be a meta with your idea, because everyone will still want max rewards, and not everyone will have friends or guildies to help with that. Finally I think we shouldn’t be leaving that much room for error, I still want it to be a challenge to actually complete it, with a little extra for the completely insane people out there.

Astralporing.1957:

Shikigami.4013:

You do not need ascended items to play, be it casual or hardcore.

That might have been true year ago, but is becoming less and less true with each passing day. Ascended offer significant advantage over exotics, and since the new content is no longer balanced around rares, as it was originally (and in fact in some cases is finetuned to make ascended “strongly encouraged”), saying “ascended aren’t needed” is now closer and closer to saying that you don’t need any form of transportation beyond your shoes to get from NY to LA.

My full exotic characters still does just fine in the new content, I haven’t really noticed a difference in difficulty when I play on them vs a full ascended character in similar stats.

Nova Stiker.8396:

BobbyT.7192:

Nova Stiker.8396:

1. DPS Checking.

2. Only 1 chest per boss/event/room.
What’s wrong with 1 chest? Nothing, but it hinders design. If you want players to take the challenge to the next level, give them next level challenges. Reward those groups that are effective and are at their absolute best.

Beat this boss in just 5 minutes?! Well, that bolds a 3 chest rewards. Tripling the chance at those rare items.

This is where you can apply those stat checks or add even extra challenge. You could run through this trap filled room with your team, or you could do it naked with your team.

The lesson: Eventually players will find the dominant strategy, something that can never fail, fast and is easy to do. It doesn’t matter how hard you make something, if it is designed to be beaten, it will be beaten then it will start to be beaten effectively. This is where you should apply those challenges.

I’m all for giving extra rewards to players who go beyond what is needed to beat a boss or dungeon. But i don’t think it should be a time limit, because that would be the same as a DPS check/rage timer.
If you think about, no one likes the idea of getting less rewards for anything, ( just ask the dungeon community right now :P ) So almost everyone will try to go for the extra rewards, not just people that want the challenge.

My idea for something like that would be a boss that bouncing around all over the place, and you got to break the bar while it’s over a pit or something or have those bone breakers that run around smash into each other a few times

There is nothing wrong with a time limit concept, it becomes an issue when it reaches 0 and that means you lose.

What happens is players feel like they lost because X player didn’t do enough damage or their gear isn’t optimized for damage. While that is the players fault, it’s also the fault of the design as it fully punishes players that use the not ideal stats that they invested a lot of time and money into. It’s not like people hop into a raid thinking, “which gear stats should I use?” That’s just not possible, do not punish players for the hundreds of gold they invested into their gear.

---

If you truly want to challenge players to get the most out of good teamwork is rewards. You will have hardcore groups going for the gold. You can still reward the group that took 20 minutes to beat the Vale Guardian but ideally you want to give the most reward to the group that beat it in 4 minutes.

To a lot of people, not getting the max reward is a loss.

And I agree with arewn on this one,
It’s possible to set a boss enrage timer so that a group with average distribution of stats could beat it, with out any extra dps stats.
Does that screw over a group with a tanker comp? Yeah, but to play devils advocate and this is my opinion, I don’t think the devs want the players doing one thing for too long.
Could a group in full soldier complete it without the enrage timer? Yeah
Would it take a long time? Yeah.
Will that be really boring for them? Yeah.
“Its taking forever to beat this thing, this game is really boring, lets play something else”
“This game sucks, I’ve been in this dungeon for over an hour and I got nothing to show for it”

Of course in terms of getting extra rewards, I still believe any kind of timer is a bad way of doing it. That one thing I hated in GW1 factions >_<.
It just enrage timers on bosses is the dev’s way of saying " okay guys move it along" and not necessarily a bad thing.

Nova Stiker.8396:

1. DPS Checking.

2. Only 1 chest per boss/event/room.
What’s wrong with 1 chest? Nothing, but it hinders design. If you want players to take the challenge to the next level, give them next level challenges. Reward those groups that are effective and are at their absolute best.

Beat this boss in just 5 minutes?! Well, that bolds a 3 chest rewards. Tripling the chance at those rare items.

This is where you can apply those stat checks or add even extra challenge. You could run through this trap filled room with your team, or you could do it naked with your team.

The lesson: Eventually players will find the dominant strategy, something that can never fail, fast and is easy to do. It doesn’t matter how hard you make something, if it is designed to be beaten, it will be beaten then it will start to be beaten effectively. This is where you should apply those challenges.

I’m all for giving extra rewards to players who go beyond what is needed to beat a boss or dungeon. But i don’t think it should be a time limit, because that would be the same as a DPS check/rage timer.
If you think about, no one likes the idea of getting less rewards for anything, ( just ask the dungeon community right now :P ) So almost everyone will try to go for the extra rewards, not just people that want the challenge.

My idea for something like that would be a boss that bouncing around all over the place, and you got to break the bar while it’s over a pit or something or have those bone breakers that run around smash into each other a few times

Ohoni.6057:

Yeah, but a lot of people seem to not like them, so maybe they should be changed.

anecdotal.

Kashrlyyk.5364:

Kulvar.1239:

..Do you still think they never gave any hint?..

Raziel.4216:

…
The previous reply already addresed your missleading claim that this wasn’t marketed as end-game content, I wonder what kind of response you’ll come up with to claim that they never gave you a hint.

Nope. Doesn’t matter. The website where the player clicks on the “Purchase Now” button must contain that information and it doesn’t. Everywhere else is irrelevant.

All ANet had to do is add a “For experienced players only that look for a challenge” anywhere visible on that page with the “Purchase Now” button and everything would be great. But then a LOT of players would not have bought it. That is why that information is hidden from the buyer on some other website.

Raziel.4216:

…
Bbl I’m off to buy legacy of the void and then complain about them never marketed it as a protoss-focused expansion, no wai!

StarCraft II: Legacy of the Void is the final chapter in the epic scifi
storyline spanning the StarCraft II trilogy. Players will guide the
powerful Protoss in the epic conclusion to Blizzard’s award-winning…

Product information on the amazon website with the “Purchase now” button. Notice how this important information is there?

GW2 Heart of Thorns amazon description:

Tackle challenging group content, explore new open-world jungle maps, experience new events and story lines, and test your mettle in new heart-pounding boss battles.

Notice how “challeging group content” is a separate item to “explore new open-world jungle maps”. They are talking about the raids there not about the difficulty of the rest of the game. It’s misleading.

I really blame that on the misinformed consumer really, stating something that is somewhat difficult is not really a requirement that needs to be said IMO. Does everything that could possibly annoy a player need to be address right before they press the "buy me’ button, if so then that would be a very long description list.
Anyone that would be worried about something like that has the ability to do research on the product they are buying (that goes for anything), and they should.

Kulvar.1239:

Kashrlyyk.5364:

BobbyT.7192:

…. Anet has said that this new xpac was suppose to be harder then the core stuff.

It’s irrelevant what ANet said somewhere on the net. What matters is what they say on the webpage where they sell the product. And it doesn’t say anything about it being harder on there.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/reimagining-progression-the-mastery-system/

The Heart of Maguuma will be home to some of the most challenging combat in Guild Wars 2

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/gameplay-features-making-the-most-of-maguuma/

We also included special difficult-to-attain achievements with specific challenging conditions

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/raids-in-guild-wars-2/

You asked for the ultimate challenging content in Guild Wars 2

Do you still think they never gave any hint?

My hero.

Ohoni.6057:

I accept the fact that they are having a problem. The solution to that problem, though, is not to reduce the difficulty of the mob, but to increase the skill of the individual.

No. That is up to the player. You get to decide what your solution would be, you do not get to decide what their solution should be. If their solution is “:make the mob less annoying,” then that is their solution.

That inconvenience should motivate’em to improve so that they can beat it, instead of whining on the forum asking Anet to remove the inconvenience for’em.

Noooope.

There’s plenty of loot pinata’s in core tyria for you. Please go back to them until you feel safe enough to venture into a somewhat challenging area.

Last thing we need is HoT dumbed down to the level Orr is at.

The game is for everyone, for those who insist that people should “learn to play” with tougher mobs, you need to “learn to play” with less hardcore players. GW2 is not a hardcore game, it is not for you. It is a casual game for casual players, and they gain nothing by alienating those players.

Actually it up to Anet to decide what the solution will be, and right now it’s either sink or swim, and I hope they don’t change it right now,.
Eventually they will down the line, but hopefully that’ll be when the newer content comes out and people will be all over that. Anet has said that this new xpac was suppose to be harder then the core stuff.

Ohoni.6057:

Agreed with the OP. “Learn to play” people, if you don’t have a problem with the snipers, then that’s fine, but stop dismissing the reports from people who do.

They aren’t really dismissing them….. just telling them to get better. Other people can do it, why can’t they?

If your trying to teleport to a friend in a full map, it will not allow you to teleport, and will use up the item anyways. Why?
Luckily I got a bunch of free ones, because I would never pay for this.

i liked it

Few people wanted to see the forgeman set, so here you go, main dye colour for the 3 pics are electro blue, shadow abyss, and onset.

4th pic is the from the same armour set and electro blue from above in a different light.

anymore request like this will have to pay for my transmutation charges :P

I was actually looking for this, saw in it in the beta and now I want to try it out

7 fell to there deaths exploring,
3 died defending the helpless,
2 stung to death by bees
1 lost in the jungle
1 killed by Saurians
1 died one the line of duty
1 died to bloodstone dust poisoning,

You would think they would invest more into gliders.

Seriously, look at these things, my mesmer almost threw his back out putting the left on

Adine.2184:

this isn’t Playcharr magazine . I dont think we need to customize panties

You might not need it, but there’s a lord faren wannabe out there that sexy and needs to show it.

Starfall.6425:

~~~~ !!! Congratulations !!! ~~~~

As the owner of the 100.000 DH-flame-thread you get a special present.
A-net will gift you a truckload of [Packet of salt] and you are allowed to do the balancing for one DH skill/trait for the next balance patch.

Because we are currently in “DH-hate-week” you will get a addition gift.
We are proud to hand you a coupon for a one week cruise on the M.S. Cry me a river.

Threads like these remind me what the thief went through back in the day, man this brings me back. The cries are coming and the nerfs are right behind them, brings a tear to my eye. Soon DH will be in the same state as thieves one day, and they’ll will be waiting on the side lines with open arms waiting to greet them.

Create one and head right into PVP and go to town on a golem for a bit to see if you like it.

EroticAndHeretic.7398:

It’s comparable because it’s basically the same result: 300 toughness and 20% condi reduction.

What’s important to compare is how we get it: Engis always get the 20% condi reduction, but it’s harder to get the stacks because of the CD and the on hit proc.

But with the lack of cooldown, the necromancer can get his 10 stacks almost instantly (just tried as I have a condi build, I got the 10 stacks with two ranged attacks), making it clearly superior, despite the 8s duration instead of 10.

Seriously, to be on par with it, especially for an elite spec as you say, we simply need no cooldown on AA.

To be fair, it’s not like necro’s have better any sustain then an engie to begin with, even without these traits, engie has way better forms of sustaining.
And why does it need to be on par anyways? what if necro’s is better on paper? Maybe they need a better one?

I’m looking for the kitten feather, anyone seen it?

This is a pretty common bug for the new DD gm’s. Usually happens when you load into a map, and it’s a hit or miss whether it happens or not.

Simple way to fix it is to trait into another GM and then switch back.

If it isn’t steal or infiltrator signet, it’s a safe assumption to say that it shadow step with the new snap ground target, the new option doesn’t really discriminate what aoe will snap. I had to turn off because it was causing SB 5 to snap my target.

That or you accidentally teleported to their return spot for shadow step, or they got really luck and guessed your location.

Congrats on your first nerf since release

I like the wiggle, don’t take it away from me

Could anyone tell me where to get this mat?
it’s used to make the precursor for The Flameseeker Prophecies.

From my sets i have, it sort of makes my engie look like it’s wearing rubber or latex,…..
also today i found out that electro blue is a pretty good match with juggernaut

Terimac.5871:

Make it 500 hp, 400 is just a weird number. Heck make it 1000 hp, it’s an amazing feeling to be the only one in the game with a certain thing.

Make this person the CEO!!!

I wouldn’t call it time gating,
It’s more like content gating

give me a sec, still loading in >_<

I’ll probably spend some time in the new areas trying the new elites on a few classes, then do Halloween with the rev to help lvl it up, I could scroll it to 80, but I haven’t actually done much of the lvl up system yet, so I’ll play around with that.

I would like to mention that it an interesting little experiment they are doing, combining a new xpac which people would normally blow through vs a holiday event.
Slowing people down by overloading them with stuff to do all at once. I’m sure it won’t hinder some people if they decide to ignore the event, but could help slow down a large amount of the player base

The one to Rule.2593:

It will inevitably get cheaper.

It will inevitably be free

sharkswithlazers.7632:

Lastly, players were explicitly told that their efforts in map completion would pay off and that they’d have enough HP for elite specs. Now, right before launch, after many of us spent months gridning those stupid challenges across over a dozen characters, they tell us that our efforts were both A) not enough and absurdly inefficient because hero challenges in maguuma are worth ten times as much as they are in Tyria.

Citation? Where did Anet explicitly told us full map completion would pay for a full spec, I would think most people would have complain then.

Random.4691:

Pompeia.5483:

BobbyT.7192:

So does that mean we just got to wait and see in two days, I mean I’m all for speculation, but if what the point in turning that mole hill into a mountain if we are not even facing the right direction.

Yeah, that is what I am guessing… it got blown out of proportion from poor communication (which everyone is a victim of). I will not stress about it till the day comes. Of course I will be sad about my Revenant, but I can just play my Chillomancer until I unlock the mastery needed for enough HPC’s to get it. Besides, Herald was just a better form of Invocation anyhow (for condi)

Shocking, well no really. This could have all been toned down by a simple response, this is going to be the death of anet (not this moment but the constant ignorance of customer relation). More bad publicity /golf clap to anet, ignorance is bliss.

Well yeah, should expect that by now though, hasn’t change in the last 7 years, I can safely say that

Pompeia.5483:

BobbyT.7192:

So does that mean we just got to wait and see in two days, I mean I’m all for speculation, but if what the point in turning that mole hill into a mountain if we are not even facing the right direction.

Yeah, that is what I am guessing… it got blown out of proportion from poor communication (which everyone is a victim of). I will not stress about it till the day comes. Of course I will be sad about my Revenant, but I can just play my Chillomancer until I unlock the mastery needed for enough HPC’s to get it. Besides, Herald was just a better form of Invocation anyhow (for condi)

And since we are the the topic of cosmetic, cosmetics that go right into your wardrobe for all your alt friendly use. That would mean that would be free HP that your 300 alts don’t need to acquire or spend until the next elite spec comes out (Unless you don’t want to spend a transmuting charge), Another reason why I would think they would take up a large chuck of the cost

So does that mean we just got to wait and see in two days, I mean I’m all for speculation, but if what the point in turning that mole hill into a mountain if we are not even facing the right direction.

Pompeia.5483:

Because I have a feeling at least half of the upset players would cool down if they just told us the layout, in numbers, to unlock traits, skills, sigils, fashion-wars items, etc. I will perform some math magic™.

I, honestly, have no problem (for my mains… alts I casually play are a diff story and will likely still remain unplayed because of these shenanigans) if the traits and skill are around 250-300 because I can see getting the GM traits in HoT as not as big a deal… except for like Daredevil or Reaper where the main idea behind the Elite spec is the GM.

However, if the GM traits end up being that 400 point item (falsely? assuming a linear path for all things elite and thus breaking the mold of skills and traits being separate) well, I hope my aforementioned box of kittens with Rabies run rampant in the home of the person that made this choice.

So… if we get someone (the mastermind behind this) to, perhaps, be kind enough to fill out this table… that would be brilliant.
(Also, we can see this as a better breakdown of where those 400 points go. We can also make assumptions based on previous traits on the order we have to get things—top down in lists.)

Elite-Spec Minor 1 = 60
Elite-Spec Adept 1 = ?
Elite-Spec Adept 2 = ?
Elite-Spec Adept 3 = ?
Elite-Spec Minor 2 = ?
Elite-Spec Major 1 = ?
Elite-Spec Major 2 = ?
Elite-Spec Major 3 = ?
Elite-Spec Minor 3 = ?
Elite-Spec GM 1 = ?
Elite-Spec GM 2 = ?
Elite-Spec GM 3 = ?

Elite-Spec Heal = ?
Elite-Spec Utility 1 = ?
Elite-Spec Utility 2 = ?
Elite-Spec Utility 3 = ?
Elite-Spec Utility 4 = ? (Not on Revenant so… do they cost less? Nah, likely cheaper for each level… more BS!)
Elite-Spec Elite = ?

Rune ~
Sigil ~
Armor Item ~

So 340 points distributed over… seventeen skill/trait things and three cosmetic.
If we made the (obviously false) assumption it was evenly distributed, that means about twenty each. Thus, if you only wanted the trait line (and assuming skills remains equally separate like today) that means you need only 280 total points there. Which is, well, reasonable, as we already have 200-215 on a fully HP-complete character.
Then there are another 120 points for skills. Arguably, you only want one or two of those… and you can make due with just a couple. If you look at previous streams, and the order we have seen in the current skill lines, you know how many points you need to unlock your skills of choice. Though… if you (only) want that elite… then you gotta get em all anyhow.

Now, of course, factor in that they may or may not weight the rune/sigil/armor the same as the skills and that points of the elite-spec trait and skill lines increase as they progress, you now get the feeling of how much for each set of stuff. Sure, we have to fully unlock all the other (the only real mistake in this system) traits first, but it does not mean you have to fully unlock the Elite Specs to get what you want out of it… new game-play.

Lastly, given the previous “standard” we have of roughly doubling amounts as we go along and I would give the following rough assumption of what everything costs:

A1 – 5
A2 – 5
A3 – 10
`2 – 10
M1 – 20
M2 – 20
M3 – 20
`3 – 30
G1 – 35
G2 – 35
G3 – 35

H 5
U 10
U 10
U 10
U 20
E 30

Rune 10
Sigil 10
Armor 10

I’m willing to guess the armour would take more then 10, seeing as they prefer to put cosmetics stuff behind bigger hurdles,
My guess is that they would take like 50-75… After you get everything else, and I thought weapon were part of that too, so that like another 50-75 hp there

Kaiser.9873:

BobbyT.7192:

Seera.5916:

The one to Rule.2593:

gavyne.6847:

The one to Rule.2593:

So…..get the elite specs?

That’s the core of the complaint, having the elite specs gated behind expansion content. This means we’ll have to play new expansion content with the same ‘ol characters we’ve played for the past 3 years. Likely have to do masteries in order to unlock some hero challenges.

It’s just boring and disappointing to have to play these same ‘ol characters in the new expansion, and have to repeat it over and over and over and over until you’ve done it for all your characters and unlocked their elite specs. All this just so we could play the new elite specs in the new expansion content both in PvE & WvW.

If you don’t understand this, then I’ve got nothing further to say to you. I wish Colin would come back and talk with the playerbase more so players don’t have to tear each other apart on behalf of Anet. It’s clear some are ok with it, some aren’t. No sense letting players kill each other over it because nobody’s going to change anybody’s minds here.

I understand it, it’s just ridiculous that people thought that they were just gonna get their elite specs with no work.

No one was expecting no work, but the amount needed seems high to some, especially to those who have a number of alts.

That’s the life one chooses when they decide to have alts, IMO alts are suppose to be expensive, and time consuming. I would be really rich if it wasn’t for my alts, ( seriously, I made my first legendary for an alt).
Thb, the amount of work is not that high, for what you need, could get done in a few hours.

See the PvE players keep saying, “You can get it done in a few hours.”, but the truth is no one knows how long it will take. What if 30 of the 40 Hero Challenges you need are xp gated behind masteries?

“Hey, want these 5 challenges? Okay master ley line gliding.” 16 million xp later you can go get those 5 challenges. “Hey here’s 7 more challenges, but you have to master super mario mushroom jumping first.” Okay there goes another giant time block. “Ahhhh learn to understand the mysterious language of C’thulu and gain access to 10 more hero challenges.” Get what I’m saying?

Good thing those masteries are account bound
And I seriously doubt you need to max glilding or stuff like that to get all that you need.
Either way, since you said no one nows how long it will take, can’t we all take a “wait and see” approach before blowing up the forum?

Burn.5401:

I wouldn’t mind “progressively” unlocking the elite spec on one of my characters, but doing the same grind over and over on all my alts? How did they overlook this, lol.

your the ones that made the alts, they should take up a lot of time and effort imo

Black Box.9312:

Lucifers Heaven.2167:

Lol. My partner and I will be entering the expansion together at launch.
She is entering first on a character where she doesn’t even plan to play the elite spec… And I on one I am not in a hurry to unlock.
So yeah. We will be doing all of the things we come across. Perhaps don’t assume every player is you.

That’s kittening fantastic. You know what’s even more kittening fantastic though? The fact that you and everyone else could do this very same thing even if elite specs were available to people immediately.

Lucifers Heaven.2167:

That same argument could be made for any system where you have to play to unlock parts at a time. Like the entire levelling up process. And the same counter arguments are just as valid here.

Remember the part where I explained why this is not the same as leveling up from 1 to 80? No? You didn’t read that? Okay, I’ll put it here so that it’s easier for you:

Black Box.9312:

Because my characters are already at level 80, which is still the maximum level, and I would kinda rather not have the efforts that I made completing the overworld challenges for the base game go almost entirely to waste. It would be one thing if unlocking the elite spec was simply a natural progression that happened just through playing the game, but instead we have to specifically rush through hero challenges in the jungle to get what we want. This makes it absolutely nothing like what players go through by simply leveling their character from 1 to 80.

This is the exact reason why people were in such outcry when Anet made their original proposal that hero challenges would be required to max out a character, which they then changed because hey, maybe it actually makes more sense to not do that.

Would it be easier to accept a level cap increase then? Anet could have easily done that instead, make you earn your way up to a max level of 90, and gain HP doing so.

Black Box.9312:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Agemnon.4608:

Farming, time, and effort aren’t the problem, ludicrous amounts of it are.

I see this phrase popping up over and over. Could someone define for me very specifically what constitutes ludicrous? Cause I’ve been reading the same things you have and I have not seen anything that I could define as ludicrous. Some of this will take a fair amount of time, which is GOOD, because more time spent unlocking things means more time with the content, and not burning through it all in a week and then wondering why there isn’t more to do.

Even with that, I’m pretty certain some people will accomplish 100% Elites on day one. They may not accomplish anything else, but they’ll have that.

The only people this seems to hurt are the people with way too many characters, of which they need all to have elites, for some reason. I’ve got 13 characters, about, one doesn’t exist yet, but will in a couple days. Of those, though, I only plan on getting elites for 4, one of which can definitely wait until much later to go through the process.

If for some reason I absolutely needed all 13 characters to be elites, that would be a problem, but that would still only be a problem for me for having such an unruly number of characters. It’s not ANet’s fault nor problem. If it takes x amount of time to get the thing, then it should absolutely take x times the number of characters you want to up to elites in order to do that. That’s completely reasonable.

Gating elite specs does not add value to the content. The new content was going to be present either way, and the people who wanted to do it were going to do it regardless. The only thing this has accomplished is that players now feel pressured to complete the content faster without getting to play through it with the elite spec that they want in the first place.

This does not add time and value to content that was going to be played regardless.

That’s if they want the elites on all their alts, for some one with 8-9+ alts, do they need to get the elite specs on all four guardians (insert any other random class) that they have on day one?

Zania.8461:

Morfedel.4165:

Gated content with expansions isn’t new to gw2, it exists in very nearly every mmorpg in existence. There may be an exception or two, but it is by far the norm.

So is trinity, gear grinds and expansions invalidating the entirety of previous progress. I did have a hope that GW2 was trying to break the mold. Original GW2 had very little gated content. Explorable dungeon modes are gated by story and fractals are gated by progress (can be bypassed by other party member) and soft gated by agony. Original design for utilities and traits provided a very easy way of bypassing bad traits and utilities, allowing you to concentrate on playing your class how you wanted. It also showered you with skill points. NPE fixed it by making bad skills mandatory and progression linear, however it still gave you all necessary HPs by leveling + a bit extra as a bonus.

Note, all I have said in this thread is simply my opinion where I am trying to explain why I am disagreeing with the stated design decision. The original design of GW2 is evolving in the direction I do not enjoy, so I feel that I should voice my opinion. Even if it doesn’t change anything.

Gw2 still does break the mold with this though. In other MMOs, you were gated behind level cap increases, and a new gear treadmill. Which would take up more of your time then getting a few hero points. Just because they got rid of a lot of old ways to gate content, does mean there won’t be some, and it’s not like this is not whole lot anyways imo. :/

papry.8096:

BobbyT.7192:

papry.8096:

BobbyT.7192:

papry.8096:

Shoe.5821:

You get all those hero points just by leveling up. Lol. ‘extend the grind’ harrumph!

400 to unlock all base spe & spell.
400 to unlock elite spec.

That’s very logical. :sarcasm:

Doing the same challenge 40 times in a row to get an elite spec isn’t grind. sure.

The rest of your post is nonsense.

You get the first 400 toming up to 80 anyways.
And 40 challenges is not that much to get.

Multiply that by 6 alts.

7 alts here, soon to be 8, with full map completion on 3 of them, and the rest hovering between 50-75%
Not sympathetic one bit,

I soon have 13 alts 80, 7 with full map completion & 4 with none as they are WvW alts.
6 was the low end of it. So your point was ?

If you choose to have a lot of alts, better prepare to do the grind

papry.8096:

BobbyT.7192:

papry.8096:

Shoe.5821:

You get all those hero points just by leveling up. Lol. ‘extend the grind’ harrumph!

400 to unlock all base spe & spell.
400 to unlock elite spec.

That’s very logical. :sarcasm:

Doing the same challenge 40 times in a row to get an elite spec isn’t grind. sure.

The rest of your post is nonsense.

You get the first 400 toming up to 80 anyways.
And 40 challenges is not that much to get.

Multiply that by 6 alts.

7 alts here, soon to be 8, with full map completion on 3 of them, and the rest hovering between 50-75%
Not sympathetic one bit,

papry.8096:

Shoe.5821:

You get all those hero points just by leveling up. Lol. ‘extend the grind’ harrumph!

400 to unlock all base spe & spell.
400 to unlock elite spec.

That’s very logical. :sarcasm:

Doing the same challenge 40 times in a row to get an elite spec isn’t grind. sure.

The rest of your post is nonsense.

You get the first 400 toming up to 80 anyways.
And 40 challenges is not that much to get.

That’s one thing I wish this game had, more content and story specific to your class and a bit more towards your race as well.
They had that in the beginning originally with the skill points, but decided to combine them all together. I believe as the time they said they wanted everyone from the alt welding maniac to the die-hard X class to be able to experience 100% of the content.
I doubt they’ve change that attitude in the last 3 years

Seera.5916:

The one to Rule.2593:

gavyne.6847:

The one to Rule.2593:

So…..get the elite specs?

That’s the core of the complaint, having the elite specs gated behind expansion content. This means we’ll have to play new expansion content with the same ‘ol characters we’ve played for the past 3 years. Likely have to do masteries in order to unlock some hero challenges.

It’s just boring and disappointing to have to play these same ‘ol characters in the new expansion, and have to repeat it over and over and over and over until you’ve done it for all your characters and unlocked their elite specs. All this just so we could play the new elite specs in the new expansion content both in PvE & WvW.

If you don’t understand this, then I’ve got nothing further to say to you. I wish Colin would come back and talk with the playerbase more so players don’t have to tear each other apart on behalf of Anet. It’s clear some are ok with it, some aren’t. No sense letting players kill each other over it because nobody’s going to change anybody’s minds here.

I understand it, it’s just ridiculous that people thought that they were just gonna get their elite specs with no work.

No one was expecting no work, but the amount needed seems high to some, especially to those who have a number of alts.

That’s the life one chooses when they decide to have alts, IMO alts are suppose to be expensive, and time consuming. I would be really rich if it wasn’t for my alts, ( seriously, I made my first legendary for an alt).
Thb, the amount of work is not that high, for what you need, could get done in a few hours.

Aomine.5012:

Eirian Direstorm.9748:

Currently, just leveling to 80 gives you enough to unlock all the current lines. —I’ve been leveling an engi for the past two weeks, and every few levels you get a lump of hero points as part of the reward for leveling up.

For the elite, you can run hero points in regular pact Tyria, you can do hero points in HoT maps, you can buy them with new WvW currency (maybe there’s a PvP currency too, I can’t recall).

Really, it’s not that bad.

No, they literally tell you to run the whole Tyria and HoT just to get enough Hero Points to unlock Elite spec.

The number of Hero Points you get is fixed from challenges. You can’t get more from leveling.

There’s only 210 or so Hero challenges. Let’s assume HoT would add another 200 Hero Points. (Consider the size of maps is much smaller than the whole Tyria, that’s ALOT)
You need to go through the whole HoT and Tyria just to unlock one Elite spec.

Imagine if you have 8 alts and 1 new Revenant.
That’s like asking you to run through the whole Tyria and HoT maps 9 times.

You call this ok?

Yes.

DeceiverX.8361:

BobbyT.7192:

Nike.2631:

BobbyT.7192:

good way to learn a class imo

I have 5 Guardians. I was planning to turn 3 of them into Dragonhunters. Not sure how much learning there’s gonna be doing the same 40 HP a second and third time…

I never really got the reason why people would have more then one of a single profession, (seriously…5? like on one account?) but what ever floats your boat.

There are multiple reasons.

Some people, like in the RP’ing community, treat their characters as separate entities and have different builds and aesthetics, groups, etc.

Many people before the free/on-demand reset of traits made separate characters to swap between builds for WvW as it was/is faster than switching everything around on one. Instead, you just move to character creation -> click -> 5s later port to WvW, a total time of like 15s. When defending a keep, that time saved can matter.

Some people did it to save builds or experiment on other things.

Some people keep their older characters around to collect birthday loot but instead primarily use a secondary that they like the look or name of better, or got lucky on progress for something character-bound.

Some people just like different themes, thought of a funny name, or just got bored enough at one point to try the process again to see if new low-level system changes change the game in any meaningful way.

I doubt many people here that are upset about about this are RP’er, (i also never really understood the whole RP community anyways, so there’s some disconnect there :\)

In terms of wvw, (usually in the high tiers,) swapping to another character usually meant waiting in Qs. Even then, i don’t know how fast is your computer is, but it definitely take more than 5 seconds switch character and jump back into wvw.

Either way, i don’t have much sympathy for those guys anyways, I have all 8 professions, leveled them all up mostly in the open world. Map completion on 3 of them, 2 have above 75%, and the rest is hovering over 50%. During HoT, i will take 3-4 through the maps (main ones i play), and other get the others through when ever im bored.
Don’t do the crime if you dont want to do the grind