Guild Wars 2

Now we need something that makes nercos mesmers and rangers op,

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

jportell.2197:

What was changed about P/P thief?

Ricochet supposedly works with Black Powder now. Not a big deal. Before the patch, the skill was bugged and the shot would never bounce.

That’s the only change I saw when I skimmed the list.

and with this, P/P is now viable, :P

Solori.6025:

BobbyT.7192:

Warrior also get damage ignoring stances ,decent regen and good access to blocks to help with there lack of teleports, pet and stealth

Yes but none of that is permanent and on a fairly long cooldown.

Which is why you either bait them or leave while the stance is up. ( berserker or endure pain)
Which is easy for guardian, mesmer, and thief, sometimes ranger.

Balance stance can be stolen, removed, or corrupted. If you are on a class that can.

If a warrior was to pop 3 stances at once then leave the point. Cause for the next 40 seconds they are a heavy punching bags. and a bad warrior, and there should be no reason to lose to such a player IF you are skilled.

Those are still pretty good strength to offset the suppose weakness, maybe condense it down to good defensive abilities.
And smart play is a weakness of any class, not just the warrior

Warrior also get damage ignoring stances ,decent regen and good access to blocks to help with there lack of teleports, pet and stealth

xbutcherx.3861:

nicknamenick.2437:

Warrior:
•high HP pool,heavy armor and high melee single target and AoE DPS, good crowd control, good mobility, frequent stun breakers
• Relies on landing its burst attacks to remove conditions.
Spending burst attacks cost adrenaline wich you first need to build and spending it will also cost you hps and/or other stat bonus like +crit/damage traits.
No defensive boons or any way to deal with boons on others
only 1 blind
only 1 combo field
no stealth/teleport/clones/pets or any other fancy stuff.

And yet no one sees this ^, and still think we are GODS? we have so many weaknesses, you just need to find them like on every other class.

I would believe “Relies on landing burst attacks to remove conditions” If there wasn’t combustive shot.
And how can I exploit your one and only combo field as a weakness?

I always wanted torment moved from shadow strike (#3 on p/d) to dancing dagger, wouldn’t change p/d or s/d much, but would help d/d from a condi stand point.

@Einlanzer
I hope your still around, taking me awhile to collect my words here.
So you want to see poison scale better in terms of damage and healing reduction?
You say it deserves to scale better with condi damage, but why? Because one build on one class is view as weak?
What about the other class/build where poison along with other condi are strong? Wouldn’t that have an undesirable effect on those builds.
Can you pinpoint other builds where poison is making the set weaker than it should be to warrant your idea?

Carighan.6758:

BobbyT.7192:

WvW doesn’t need to be balanced because it wasn’t design to be balanced

Uh huh.
Based on what exactly?

it’s been their design philosophies for WvW since day one, (original article explaining this gone now)
But really, what else explains WvW balance tied with PvE, or that one character be buff to the kittens with guard leech, bloodlust, food and guild buffs, or a group of 50 taking on 5 people defending a tower.
You can’t balance this kitten, why even try?

RyuDragnier.9476:

Shockwave.1230:

Aza.2105:

Zacchary.6183:

@ Aza

Your comments are rather biased.

Not biased, I’m objective. What I’ve written so far has nothing to do with my personal experience in game.

I think what people are trying to point out to you is that all these things you are complaining about are intended.

Regardless though if professions with stealth were imbalanced why aren’t the majority of people’s pvp comps made up entirely of stealth professions? The answer is rather obvious, because it doesn’t work, and that’s because stealth is not imbalanced.

For sPvP it isn’t imbalanced since while in stealth you cannot capture points, which are the main gain of points in that mode, limiting its uses outside of defensive purposes. WvW is a separate beast altogether, and does need its own separate balance patches from sPvP, REGARDLESS of what the higher ups in Anet think.

WvW doesn’t need to be balanced because it wasn’t design to be balanced

How is this kitten productive ><

Aberrant.6749:

BobbyT.7192:

Holy bump

Nerco’ing in a attempt to stop the endless flow of useless thief/stealth threads appearing lately

Sadly I don’t think it will. The vast majority of the complaints seem to be WvW related. ’Cause you know… solo roaming in WvW matters and needs to be balanced asap.

WvW was never meant to be balance >_<, why can’t people get that, you can’t balance when you have the kitten like guard leech, food buffs, bloodlust, it was design to be not balance
Roam

Hitman.5829:

Saturn.6591:

How does stealth make them useless?

Are you seriously asking that? Going in stealth and waiting for the skill to fade is what is making the utility skill useless.

Waiting the stance out what your suppose to do though,

Holy bump

Nerco’ing in a attempt to stop the endless flow of useless thief/stealth threads appearing lately

What the f…
I want to make a thread suggesting stealth countering stealth as a joke/ troll, but I’m afraid people here would actually take me seriously

Pretty good for a signet build

I think he was pointing out that he got hit for +2k mostly rng damage, and there was very little he could do about it.
All I got to say is " welcome to guild wars 2"

Velektrian.5491:

Dondagora.9645:

It’s their class mechanic.

And People also Claim Stealth is their Class Mechanic.
And Initiative
And Steal
And ShadowSteps
And And No CDs on Weapon Skills.

Pick 1 like everyone else…

I rather pick 6.

Edit; 7 for the stealth attacks.

Edit #2; no cd on weapon skills and Initiative are the same so it’s still 6

Bogy.2953:

oh boy another scrub that has no idea what current dungeon meta is, frothing at the mouth at anet to change game to his kittenty idea of balance

Is dungeon equality really that hard to ask for?

Inb4 " well ( insert class) is not overpowered at all"

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

KillerJacket.9735:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Yesterday, I watched 14 people try and fail to kill a D/P perplexity Thief. These kinds of Thieves I usually prefer to avoid so instead of being a victim of the troll I decided to observe… This guy, no matter how close to dying he got, would always vanish before he crossed the 10%< mark and reappear a few seconds later with 70%>… He was never killed, just eventually made a run for it.
I crossed him shortly afterwards and wanted to see how I measured up, even if I knew it was completely one sided… So I thought before engaging, let’s make this as in my favor as possible. I equipped as many immobilizes as possible, as well as “Sic’m!” and dropped Spike Trap and Viper’s Nest at my feet. Waiting a few seconds for him to make the first move, I pegged him with a Poison Volley, he moved in, got nuked with my traps, I used Muddy Terrain to pin him down, he ported out as I thought he might, I then used Entangle followed by “Sic’m!” and proceeded to nuke his feet with traps, Bonfire from offhand torch and Throw Torch, got him to 10% of his health and what happens? He vanishes, I again nuke my feet with traps and prepare a Muddy Terrain for his reappearance but instead… I find him with 80% of his health /laughing on a hill behind me…
Now, I can admire talent, I have no problems with a talented Thief. But it’s one thing to be talented, a whole other thing to be talented with a build that doesn’t require any…
On the bright side he never killed me… Just ended up giving me another few hits and running off when I kept stacking bleeds on him. I know that’s a “win” when fighting a Thief, if they run off… But that whole D/P perplexity condition build thing is just stupid beyond words.
For the record, I don’t think stealth is “OP.” I think line of sight abuse and the ability to perpetually reset fights is. No one should have as much control over a fight as a Thief does, not even a Thief. No one should be c__ky enough to engage a dozen + people without hesitation and still have a 60% chance of escaping alive.

I’ll give you the thieves perspective on the fight to help give the full picture of what happened. First off if the thief was running d/p perplexity then it was probably a burst build that has low hp. So when you are watching the thief for from 10% -70% hp. It is probably only healing 4-5k health but they already have extremely low health to begin with. It only looks like a lot because you can only see the bar and not actual numbers. But I I think you have the weapon set wrong to begin with. They were probably running p/d perplexity condi build. With this build it’s usually full dire which means they’ll have nearly 20k hp. Now the only way a thief heals from 10% to 70% with that build is to use a shadow refuge and stay in it for almost the complete duration of the stealth. Plus you said he teleported away which means he probably used shadow step since you were playing range by the sound of it and wouldn’t have been able to hit you with the p/d number 3 skill. That means the thief just blew two of his long cd get out of jail free cards to escape your damage. If you continued the fight with him you would have won so the thief made the tactical retreat.

Tips for fighting a p/d condi thief. Once a thief uses its basilisk venom burst their damage goes way down because pistol aa sucks. . Don’t panic just cleanse and fight. Watch out for the melee range on thief because they will try and cloak and dagger you for a bleed burst, or tele away and kite you plus inflict torment. So if you fight them at range and kite there goes the effective ness of those two skills for them. If you can, stand in aoe fields or blind fields to make their melee set ups more risky. The entire fight will be a game of attrition. Wait for the thief to blow shadow refuge and shadow step and you are pretty much guaranteed the win. Also be weary of wildlife in the open field that a thief can attempt to cloak and dagger off of. Any AI assisted allies like pets, clones, minions, and turrets are easy cloak and dagger targets. If a thief stealth continue attacking, and use channeling skills because they will continue to follow the thief when they stealth.

One last thing for everyone complaining about how hard it is to target a thief. In the options panel there is a way to set up a key to “target nearest enemy”. This is essential for any fight not only just agains thieves and everyone should have it assigned on their keyboards.

mesmers are never the nearest enemy

Which is the point of the Mesmer, still should be useful vs a thief

Block on initiative can be possible, just got to limit it in some way, semi high initiative cost is one (5+ Is going to be expensive if you plan on block most attacks), other could be high cast or animation time. Most block skills a " block one attack and do X" for example;

Shadowy Riposte channel to block one attack for 1 to 2 sec, if an attack is blocked this way, teleport behind your attacker preform a 3/4 to 1s attack based on your main hand. 5 initiative.

Wouldn’t be the most spammable thing compared to anything else the thief could do.

And for those saying main hand pistol or dagger with a sword looks weird, I say
I reject your immersion and substitute my own,

caveman.5840:

reveals can be really op
but we do have sickem . but it takes some luck for the AI to land it :S

but a boon strip/ steal would be nice….
same goes for blast finishers

I thought sickem reveal happen at the of the cast and didn’t require the pet to hit with?

Evan Lesh.3295:

Work. Work. Work. Work. Work. China. Work. Work. Work.

No time to discuss, but I still read near every thread.

Rage. Rage. Rage. Rage. Rage. Merica. Rage. Rage. Rage.

Sorry, no point in that, but i thought it was funny.

IMO, the torment on shadow strike should have been put on dancing dagger instead. It would provide a bit more pressure to the skill,

SS was pretty good before it gotten it and wouldn’t effect p/d much. It would also buff a condi d/d as it has trouble covering the bleeding stacks.
Since it kinda aoe, 1 stack per target might be alright, still applying 2 stack if it bounces back.

Aedrion.6483:

Don’t you dare say “guardian” people. xD

Too late.

Renny.6571:

Creld.8702:

TL;DR- Good idea, but not at 66%, because thieves are sometimes people too.

Elementalists are also people and 66% on our attunements affects our skill pool too. People seem to forget that though. :\

Yeah but know one wants to remember.

Yeah, have you ever seen a chilled thief spam HS? It’s kinda funny

I would was torment was made for the necro seeing how every necro gets it naturally from their profession mechanic while other classes need to equip a certain trait, rune or weapon. And it not like their is a lot of ways to apply it in general compare to other conditions, so there is not much competition.

Domzz.1260:

Luke.4562:

Run away……

Meaning?

Run away before the QQers come

Latinkuro.9420:

Thanks to this VID-OP for giving us a perfect example of all that is wrong with stealth and chain stealth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QVy_C-Z0-k

Also this is not just a sPVP problem, the problem is a lot more compounded in WvW as you can see in the video.

Now, a.net has a blueprint as to how to approach it, probably, maybe, finally fix this broken mechanic.

Or….

Maybe provide proper counterplay, just a thought.

Or pat themself on the back for a job well done

so fighting 1v2 against people that know what they are doing is not fun?……

Should mention that those healing > power traits that rangers and engines have are in their healing trait lines, for both that is 5 deep onto each. Equaling to 25 power base.
(It’s something)
Now I don’t know about about most, but if I went 5 in a line like those, might as well throw the sixth point in, so 30 power.

So less then one stack of might – condi damage…

Now these traits are more or less meant to stack a lot of a certain attribute, so a lot of healing would be 1500, which is 150 power

Do not touch my fall damage traits, they’re the main reason why I say alive in WvW >:(

Burnfall.9573:

Everyone has EQUAL access to runes, sigils, armors and so forth.

Seriously, what is wrong with some of us in the community ?

Why not complain about Not having Equal Access to things we don’t have; like stealth, invisible, invulnerability, Perm-Everything and God Mode, like the Thief class, like the Warrior class and like the Elementalist class ?

Stop Punishing our Freedom To Equal Access !!

because the weak deserve to be oppress,

Oidmetala.8426:

this rune is for sure to strong atm

nearly every power profession run it.
and it makes nearly all power professions much stronger then they should be at the moment.

warriors run strengh runes
mesmers run strengh runes
eles run strengh runes
some thiefs run strengh runes

this 4 professions run around with ~20 perma might and just kill everything

so there is of course no condi meta atm
we have a power meta

Weren’t people complaining about the condi meta, and wanting a power meta?

Hannelore.8153:

Naevius.3185:

I’d love to know how you can be sure a player is a bot.

Its very easy to recognise bots once you know what to look for.

They have certain behavoral patterns. The most common ones are:
- Never playing with any ally
- Not resurrecting NPCs or players
- Running away from Champions the instant they come in range
- Attacking invulnerable or obstructed mobs indefinitely
- Not jumping over obsticles or getting stuck
- Running bearbow Ranger or minion Necro
*

Except for attacking obstructed mobs and getting stuck( ok sometimes -_-) I do all this, :p

Yeah I think the op has gotten the point, horse is dead, good job you can go home now.
/thread please

Well it looks like a norm building, most of them don’t give 2 skirts bums about snow so I wouldn’t think they care about proper roofing

Edit: plus it’s the mist, it’s design to defy this silly thing called “logic”

Question I want to ask is there any way a large group players 50+ doing any thing, open world PvE, WvW and not be considered a Zerg? Or will they always be considered a Zerg?
Remember those movies with large scale battles, looks kinda cool sometimes, isn’t that just a big Zerg fight?

FLiP.7680:

BobbyT.7192:

… and you might not be able to do anything about.
…

Well, i can do a few thing about it.
- Engineer spam granades, bombs when they go stealth. May use shield 44 or 5.
- Mesmer and Thief wait a few seconds then pop their own stealth.
- Staff Ele can drop Lava font or Ice Spike on his feet, then swap to earth for protection.
- Warrior can strafe around the point he did CnD, use Whirlwind.

- and dodge early or later based on the previous BS attempts (that works for all professions and everyone should do that).

If you can’t take a few hits to know the thief’s style, then you deserve to die. Take your kitten PvE gear back to your dungeons.

Edit: And maybe the most important, they are still there, why did you stop attack??!?

oh so they need to know what they are doing? interesting mechanic knowledge is

Cogbyrn.7283:

They just excel at everything people hate dealing with. Is that really where you want to take a class in an MMO?

i’ve already done enough long winded post today, so all i’m doing to say is yes!

Out of all the skills a thief access too, i wouldn’t say 2 bad skills and a weapon set that doesn’t work well together is lacking depth. Not when they can use their other skills to max effectiveness.
when i mean depth, i mean the ability to have an answer for almost anything whenever.
bp can be used at as distance for a somewhat safe uninterrupted HS for stealth in d/p, for to allow a thief to stand toe to toe with something in s/p. secure a stomp, swap to a SB for a quick and dirty aoe stealth for numerous applications. all that dictated but how well I management my resource and not CD.
It not just something you troll people with by dropping at theirs feet…….even though everything i said up there sounds pretty trollish but never mind that ;P,

So will you accept and tolerate thieves and their dissenting views?

Cogbyrn.7283:

BobbyT.7192:

For those that play thief, love or hate stealth or other “toxic” abilities, doesn’t the resource management and freedom of skill usage offer so much depth to the class?
Don’t know about anyone else, but it’s still the reason why I call it a main

I’d like to think the resource system brings versatility, but instead it seems to just promote using the same 2 abilities, maybe 3, over and over. The system even seems to promote using the same weapons in 2 weapon sets so you can benefit from on-swap Sigils while still having the abilities you want available available.

The most versatility I’ve seen recently is using CnD off of anything but another player (pets, clones, turrets, you name it) to freely enter stealth without worry.

Do you remember the last time you saw a Thief using Death Blossom or Dancing Dagger? Neither do I. Is that depth? Using 3 weapon skills? If it is to you, then that’s fine, but I personally don’t see it.

Warriors may have felt overpowered with passive healing, but they can be really engaging/fun to fight. Guardians can chain blocks/invuln for several seconds, but often they are also an engaging/fun fight. Most Ele fights are also really enjoyably engaging (besides maybe the air bursts, which are simply annoying). A good Ranger is an intense, fun fight.

Maybe people complain about Thieves because they don’t enjoy fighting them. Maybe most of the issues people complain about aren’t necessarily the actual issues. Maybe the actual issue is that they designed a class that is inherently frustrating to play against, and maybe that’s a really poor decision from a game design perspective.

That’s my take on it. For me, it isn’t that I love to hate Thieves. It’s that I hate that I don’t love Thieves, because I come close to loving every other class in the game.

I did say thieves will use the most efficient skill to do the job needed/do the most damage, and you only have so much initiative skill to spend at a given. (somewhere up there, bit of a long post, forgotten half of it already.)

Death Blossom and Dancing Dagger are just not efficient skills, both don’t do enough enough damage overall (single target or aoe) to warrant using over other damage skills. Cripple on DD is nice but thieves have multiple efficient ways to create and close distances already, the evade on DB is really clunky because it’s too short and and hard to time properly. Direct damage is really poor and it’s hard to cover the bleed stack it offers.
The old unicorn d/d built was fun, wasn’t really effective

Pistol/pistol is a clunky set altogether, and really emphasizes how a thief needs to choose between damage and utility.
-5 stacks of vulnerability with 1 sec immobilize,
-1/4 daze for interrupt on demand,
- and a pb aoe blind field

All sounds like amazing set of utilities right? Until you realize your spending all your initiative on unload. Couple with poor sustain damage from the auto attack (meant for condi which is not what p/p is) and poor surviveablity. The set become a one trick pony, and without a doubt, the worst set the thief has. (Yet I’ve still seen QQ threads about, because hey it’s thieves)

Now look at the other set, D/P despite all the hate for it, is a great set, good utility with gab closers, defense and control from blind, daze and stealth, you can either BS or HS for damage, the auto is good single target sustain as well. people might just see 5, 2, 1 all the time . but when 3 and 4 gets used for their intented situations is not a waste.

Reverse that now with P/D, other than Dancing Dagger, you got that vulnerability with immobilize, hard hitting gap creater with torment (not spammable btw), C&D , and if built for condi, auto provide decent sustain. Overall 3-4 out of 5 get used.

You might find warriors and other classes fun to fight against, but isn’t that just personal opinion? Some might not like fighting those classes for what ever reason and instead enjoy fighting thieves, I’m not going to argue they are difficult to deal with (because they are), but some people do enjoy that. For better or for worst, until it gets changed, might as well accept it as intended.

I say keep trying to love thieves, make a thief/replay the one you have for awhile, you might start to like them

Or hate their guts even more, at that point, there is no helping you ;P

- “If you nerf stealth, we will be left with no defence!!11!!”
- “Why don’t you fix Warriors first or PU Mesmers first!”
- “L2P”
- “Stealth is working as intended… L2P”
- “Stealth trap”
- “Stack toughness” <—— HAHAHHAHHAHA
Pick one, or all of them.

---

OT: this thread is so ironic. There are better places to commence circlejerks:

1. Reddit
2. Thief forum

Yes but this is for the warriors of the forum

Long post incoming

Seriously feels like a day doesn’t go by unless 2-3 complaints threads are made or necro’d.
It’s always been like this since day 1, but lately it feels like it has gotten worse.
And for almost 2 years now you hear almost everything complained about.
-Stealth, all the benefits it gives you
-initiative,
-chill
-shadow steps
- BS, HS, C&D, PW, PDSD, kitten unload of all things
-evades
-traits, sigils, runes( krait rune takes the cake)

I got to ask, do people making threads just throw dart at a board, or is there a grand list on what to make next the thread on?

Yes , initiative lets a thief spam his skills. Not only was it design to give versatility in combat by using what ever skills they want at any point, but to allow a thief spend all this resource to burst his target. Which usually requires the most efficient skill to do damage with. If you allow yourself to get to low health in front of a thief, your kitten right he should HS his initiative away.
The drawbacks for initiative being low skill usage overall compared to other class, shared initiative pool between weapon sets, the need to sacrifice the little utility thieves have in their weapon sets over damage (want to headshot? might need to forget about using black powder into HS for a bs).
But of course no other class sees this, the resource management every thieves needs to be mindful of, and knows how much it sucks when you miss a c&d or other high cost skill. If I spam HS and don’t end up killing you, well that was bad play of me, and I might die now.
For those that play thief, love or hate stealth or other “toxic” abilities, doesn’t the resource management and freedom of skill usage offer so much depth to the class?
Don’t know about anyone else, but it’s still the reason why I call it a main.

Thieves have shadow step, evades and stealth, because where are their stabilities, protection and health? A thief that doesn’t use these is as good as dead, just as much as any other profession that doesn’t use their defensive abilities.
And you know what?
They are amazing, not only can I use them all of them for defence, but use them offensively as well, and boy are they offensive.
Gain buffs, remove conditions, attack, heal. Imagine a guardian healing while gaining boons, or warrior removing conditions while attacking, if only right? ( inb4 people feel the need to tell me the difference :p)
Sure, you can’t target a thief in stealth, but you can still hit him, people do it all the time, some thieves can actually c&d off a cloaked target. Crazy.
If a thief really wanted to, will he get away 100% of the time? I would like to say maybe 80%ish of the time. Does it require to be lucky/ better then him/built a certain way. Yes, but to kill any other profession, wouldn’t you need to expect the same?

After what? 6-7 months after the last balance update and countless threads, the only thing they nerf the thief on was PW in Spvp, shortbow #3, and some poison.
Nothing on stealth, BS, chill or any complaint during that time, BS and HS hasn’t been touch really since launch, and few nerfs to easy perma stealthing and evades, but they are still there. BS can still hit like a truck in the right situations, they can walk into an enemy Zerg and walk right out if they know what they are doing, and turn any 1v1 into a 2 v dead pretty fast. And the complaint are still going. At this point one would think this is ok with anet
In fact, there was an anet stream awhile back where one of the devs (izzy) looked at an enemy thief trolling a group of players, and he said to them " leave him alone….. Your not going to kill him" :O that was beautiful!!
My biggest wish for this game is not Cantha,(that’s saying a lot) new weapons, or the removal of ascended gear. But for Karl to come out and say " Yeah, this is how we made the thief…deal with it" because you know it’s what they are thinking.

Summary/ TL:DR

For all that it worth, thieves will spam, stealth, hit like a truck, run away, come back for round 10, and you might not be able to do anything about. And if that wasn’t the devs vision for the thief they would have changed it a long time ago.

This thread has one of 3 outcomes, locked, forgotten in the pages of old, or a flame fest of epic proportions ( kinda just hoping for one of the first 2). I’m just venting atm with all the dumb kitten I see.
Who am I you ask? Just some random wannabe.
What I ask is really simple, and it something I hope people take to heart next complaint thread that they want to make, not only for the thief but with any class really.

Deal with it!

Prysin.8542:

SoulSin.5682:

Why in heavens would you use kraits on a backstab build?

cuz of poison your heal cannot burst you up enough to have any chance of surviving the oncoming heartseeker or to survive another backstab.

But backstab build already has poison :/

Because heaven forbid a thief uses his skills to anything useful,
You used a skill to immobilize him, he used a skill to break out of it, seems pretty normal to me, some of those skills even remove conditions.
Aren’t they a class by design, not meant to get caught? So I say it’s working as intended,
Deal with it?

So to sum up
-On a D/d power spec, Bleed, poison, (have access already) and torment with 125 condi damage from the rune ( a little more if you go into trickery) will tickle

- p/d set already have these conditions

- a condi d/d.... Hahaha

Add this to the list of problems

Will not teleport you straight 600 units away, it will teleport you anywhere within 600 units around you. Including right where you were.

Solori.6025:

K U T M.4539:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Care to define and explain why it is “unskillful” play?

Why should immobilize be treated differently then any knock back, blow outs, daze, stun, cripple, and chill?

When they use hard cc on someone who’s already been hard cc’d, it overwrites it. When you immob someone who’s already been immob’d, it stacks.

Thank you for stating what has been mentioned already.

That still does not answer the question.

And I am still waiting on that list of spammable immobilizes outside of thief.

For example.
If I am in a 2 v 1 vs two burst thieves and one basalisk venoms me, then the other thief does the same thing when it wears off
Does basalisk venom become unskillful?
If I am chain dazed and stunned by two warriors, does stun become skill-less?

If I get shatter bursted by two mesmers
Does shatter become unskillfull?

If I get perma fear pingponged between two necromancer’s
Does fear become unskillfull?

Why are we even talking about 2 v 1 or 1 vs multiple anyway?

If i lose to it, then yes it’s unskillful
/s

I was going to say nice job luring them to the champ, but with so much BM I won’t bother

Viking Jorun.5413:

2m44s. Thieves have counterplay, but it requires well-timed execution of your skills, not simply mashing buttons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmJ_kCNNCOs

so requires thinking?……to hard for most i’m afraid, must nerf

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I find the Torment trait to be rather lacking, like REALLY lacking for a Grandmaster trait. 3 stacks is rather too low. I think it should have been 6 stacks.

Something like:

1st illusion: 3 Stacks
2nd illusion: 2 stacks
3rd illusion: 1 stack

I wouldn’t even mind it being on like a 5 second cool down. It just doesnt feel threatening enough. When for example a Warrior can proc FIVE stacks of Torment for TWELVE seconds every 15 seconds (with 0% Condition duration and no trait) it is rather poor that a Grandmaster trait is a mere 3 stacks for like 4 seconds….

They could make it so the more illusions that are shattered the more stacks and the longer duration it is. something like:

1 Illusion = 5 seconds
2 Illusions = 7 seconds
3 Illusions = 9 seconds

Though i am not sure if this would be possible. They could make it that each Illusion procs the stack and somehow a duration increase on the current and previous stack?

I am rather disappointed in the Torment Runeset as well, I had real hopes they would make it worth taking but it is still rather lacking. 2 stacks of Torment on heal is rather poor. Plus no stacks on hitting an enemy either

This would have been mine:

+25 Condition Damage
+10% Torment Duration
+50 Condition Damage
+15% Torment Duration 20% Chance on hit to inflict 3 stacks of Torment for 5 seconds(15second cool down)
+100 Condition Damage
+20% Torment Duration; when you use a Elite skill, apply 5 stacks of torment to nearby foes. (Cooldown: 90seconds)

This would have been a GREAT runeset.

yeah but for the most part as far as i’m aware, rune only have “when struck/hit” for stuff like that, tho i like the torment on elite.