Guild Wars 2

Every class has a GM minor trait that has something to do with damage, even the defensive trait lines

Mijo.3274:

BobbyT.7192:

Mijo.3274:

Kanenas.4906:

“Now we are 1v1, my stunlock build is not the best against a class that have unlimited stunbreakers w/o CD”

I stopped reading the rest….

Oh i’m sorry if something bad happened to you while reading the post my friend
You’ll read it when you get ok maybe

I also stopped reading at this point, you do know they nerf that already eh?

Read the comment i wrote after please

Sry, allergic to troll bait.

Mijo.3274:

Kanenas.4906:

“Now we are 1v1, my stunlock build is not the best against a class that have unlimited stunbreakers w/o CD”

I stopped reading the rest….

Oh i’m sorry if something bad happened to you while reading the post my friend
You’ll read it when you get ok maybe

I also stopped reading at this point, you do know they nerf that already eh?

Synister.8629:

Game Mode:
PvX

Proposal Overview:
Zephyr’s Speed Beastmaster trait change.

Goal of Proposal:
To prevent the Ranger’s pet from wasting its quickness boon/buff.

Currently, the Ranger and pet acquire quickness immediately after pet swapping. This isn’t an issue for the Ranger, but the pet is a little slower to react. The quickness only lasts 3 seconds, so more often than not, the pet wastes the entire duration running to the target or standing around.

I propose that the quickness boon/buff be applied after swapping pets, but ONLY after attacking. This will allow the pet time to run to the desired target before initiating quickness.

Proposal Functionality:

Pet
Swapped in>runs to target>attacks>quickness procs

Perhaps creating a boon/buff icon similar to the Attack of Opportunity would be wise, to prevent exploiting the effect.

Does that make sense?

Associated Risks:
None.

There is a way to solve that, hit F1 as soon as you swap, your pet will attack right away.

Honestly, the slow reaction problem people are getting from the pet can be solve if that one button.

Maugetarr.6823:

BobbyT.7192:

Am I the only one here that doesn’t want the thieves CDI to happen. By hour 3 I bet there will be 10-15 pages of “stealth op please nerf” -_-

Agreed.

There’s a few things that need improvement like bringing the effectiveness Acro up to the level of SA, but that’s about it.

I for one like too see deadly arts and venoms improved a bit.

For those saying a thief should never get hit, it doesn’t matter how good you are, your going to get punched in the face.
i’m just not a fan of the traps, too situational. this would provide some defense that people won’t cry about…….too much

Am I the only one here that doesn’t want the thieves CDI to happen. By hour 3 I bet there will be 10-15 pages of “stealth op please nerf” -_-

People can complain all they want, but that didn’t look like a easy time with that engineer.

I don’t think most people are a fan of these skills, too limited, some will only effect one target, and other then maybe shadow trap provide very little in terms of defence or utility.
Traps should be a ranger thing, and these made into a different skill type.

What if instead of being placed on the ground, they are placed on the thief and trigger on being hit.
Needle trap becoming Needle defence; Next time you are hit, immobilize and poison the attacker.
Trip wire become Anticipated counter , Knockdown the next person that attacks you
Shadow trap becomes Shadow defence , Mark the next attacker to hit you, chaining into Shadow pursuit
Ambush: shadow step back and replace yourself with another thief next time you are hit.
Potential traits other then cool down reduction could be
:reduce or negate the damage from the next incoming hit after activating one of these skills.
:remove a condition or 2….or many
:venom share version of this maybe? Don’t know how it would work for shadow defence though. And ambush would be slightly OP. Only slightly

Hell it would even make that suppose elite trap decent.

Travlane.5948:

godz raiden.2631:

Yeah but even with half the skills in the game being able to track me in stealth, my stealth is still OP! There’s no way any of those skills you named could be considered a counter play to my ability to stealth. Besides, when I stealth I am I also invulnerable…

Says the majority of the forum community.

i kill almost as many thieves IN stealth as i kill OUT of stealth. such horrifically false statement.

Either your bad at sarcasm,…. Or I am :/.

Shinobi.3240:

BobbyT.7192:

I don’t think moving the damage from auto (direct or condition) is a good idea
All it would do is forced the thief to spend initiative on damage instead of using them for utility, and any use of aa would be a lose of dps/pressure.

Look at p/p, all your damage in a direct damage build is in your unload. you can use other skills like the daze, blind, or immobilize, but because they fight for initiative with your main damage source, you just punish your self when you use anything else.
And using your aa in that kind of build just tanks your damage hard.

Now you can say just spread the damage evenly between the 4 other skills, but anet has a thing about giving more dps to control/support skill, which is what 3 of the skills on p/p are. And people will just spam what ever is easier to hit with anyways.

I don’t know about you, but spamming my aa and being reward when I want use my other skills seems a lot better then spamming an initiative based skill and being punish when I do something different, it’s a lot less boring too.

As for condition damage, only 2 mh weapons have condi damage on the auto, and I never heard the bleed on the pistol or the poison on dagger really being an issue :/

This change is for all classes not just for the Thief.

Every class will want to use the AA for its added utility e.g. Might, Swiftness, Fury, Cripple .. etc. not for it´s damage.

Your strong attacks will be buffed through the use of your AA, but they have a drawback .. your CD or Ini based skills have visual effects that makes them easier to dodge.

Best regards!

I’m not convince this would work well on the thief though, why would this be an issue? imo thieves should have strong AAs, to supplement their dps when they are not using their initiative for burst or utility. Using initiative to sustain dps just seems inefficient.

And I would argue that the poison on the dagger is mostly about utility with the heal reduction/combing with lotus poison then it is with damage.

Shinobi.3240:

Additions:

• Block only prevents damage from the front.

• Blocked stealth attacks reveal the attacker.

• Channeled evade attacks like Pistol Whip and Blurred Frenzy only prevent damage from the front. Blurred Frenzy doesn´t auto face anymore.

Imo that would open up a can of balance problems, and not in the favour of classes like the guardian either, blocked attacks revealing wouldn’t even matter at that point. Doesn’t take a thief much to move to someone’s back, and it’s not like they don’t try to do this anyways.
How would that work for aoe?

There is a lot of what you want to change, but no why you want a change.

gawker.8340:

BobbyT.7192:

Actually, ranger do have some burst, which is quite decent, but may or may not be reliable because it does involve the pet.

Ranger Burst is super bad. Go play zerk Ele, which is basically a much better version of power ranger.

Never said it was good, just implying that on paper, once a blue moon, when all the stars align, and Karl makes a post on here, that the damage is decent

Bryzy.2719:

BobbyT.7192:

Bryzy.2719:

Allie Murdock.8152:

I realize that many classes have high burst right now, but our intent is to limit power creep as much as possible. Just because the Ranger’s damage is more spread out, doesn’t mean it does less damage than the burst of other classes. Does that make sense?

For example: One class could, in the span of 30 seconds, do 15k damage in say 5-10 seconds, but then their burst skills go on cooldown so they have to wait out the rest of the time before they can try again. A sustained class should be able to do that same amount of damage in that same amount of time, but the damage is more spread out (hence sustained). This can be better in certain situations, and allows for the sustained class to fill a hole in a team comp.

I’m not saying this is a perfect system or that it’s even fully functional in the game, I’m just trying to explain why doing burst shouldn’t necessarily be better than doing sustained damage. It depends on the situation.

We also know that some classes right now are better at burst than others, and those are things that we look to address in balance patches so there isn’t a surplus of any one class.

All things considered, many of us, the players, would dearly love to be able to play a viable burst build, or have some aspect of decent physical DPS. To limit the Ranger class to sustained damage is to contradict your own paradigm-shifting philosophy of “any profession can fulfill any role”. Furthermore, it’s actively mitigating our enjoyment of the profession. Essentially, there are those of us who only ever want to play Ranger, and, forgive the childish phrasing, but it is frankly unfair to deny us the potential enjoyment we can get out of this profession.

Kind of a pet peeve of mine when people talk about “classes fulfilling any role” like they expect any class to be able to do everything. As far as I’m aware, they only said each class can do 3 roles.
Control, support, damage.
When it comes to the damage, they never said every class will have high burst, just that they will be able to do damage in a certain way. And having lots of sustain damage vs burst is still consider damage

“we just call it DAMAGE, and when it comes to making red bars go down, you can never have enough of it. Don’t trivialize it though; damage is a very versatile aspect of combat. There are so many ways that a character can do damage.”

Now with PvE, it’s up for debate whether or not is effective there, But that’s more of a problem with the design of the content then it is with the mechanics of a class

There’s one simple fact you’ve neglected.

Ranger is the only class without a decent burst build (whether physical or cond.).

Anet have at least 2 options here; the first of which appears to be the one they want to take:

1. To nerf all other classes’ DPS builds and keep Ranger as a “sustained damage” class. Not only would this infuriate the other classes but it also deprives the Ranger community of the one thing we all want.

2. To leave other classes’ DPS as-is (perhaps with exception to warriors) and give Rangers a viable DPS/burst method. This simultaneously avoids the risk of kittening off the other classes and makes the majority of Rangers happy by finally allowing them to play a fun build and be useful in PvE. It’s also the option that would require the least effort.

Yes I am starting to feel slightly frustrated at these stubborn design philosophies. The game is supposed to cater to the players, not to withhold some grand ideology for each class even if it is detrimental to peoples’ enjoyment of the game.

Actually, ranger do have some burst, which is quite decent, but may or may not be reliable because it does involve the pet.

Bryzy.2719:

Allie Murdock.8152:

I realize that many classes have high burst right now, but our intent is to limit power creep as much as possible. Just because the Ranger’s damage is more spread out, doesn’t mean it does less damage than the burst of other classes. Does that make sense?

For example: One class could, in the span of 30 seconds, do 15k damage in say 5-10 seconds, but then their burst skills go on cooldown so they have to wait out the rest of the time before they can try again. A sustained class should be able to do that same amount of damage in that same amount of time, but the damage is more spread out (hence sustained). This can be better in certain situations, and allows for the sustained class to fill a hole in a team comp.

I’m not saying this is a perfect system or that it’s even fully functional in the game, I’m just trying to explain why doing burst shouldn’t necessarily be better than doing sustained damage. It depends on the situation.

We also know that some classes right now are better at burst than others, and those are things that we look to address in balance patches so there isn’t a surplus of any one class.

All things considered, many of us, the players, would dearly love to be able to play a viable burst build, or have some aspect of decent physical DPS. To limit the Ranger class to sustained damage is to contradict your own paradigm-shifting philosophy of “any profession can fulfill any role”. Furthermore, it’s actively mitigating our enjoyment of the profession. Essentially, there are those of us who only ever want to play Ranger, and, forgive the childish phrasing, but it is frankly unfair to deny us the potential enjoyment we can get out of this profession.

Kind of a pet peeve of mine when people talk about “classes fulfilling any role” like they expect any class to be able to do everything. As far as I’m aware, they only said each class can do 3 roles.
Control, support, damage.
When it comes to the damage, they never said every class will have high burst, just that they will be able to do damage in a certain way. And having lots of sustain damage vs burst is still consider damage

“we just call it DAMAGE, and when it comes to making red bars go down, you can never have enough of it. Don’t trivialize it though; damage is a very versatile aspect of combat. There are so many ways that a character can do damage.”

Now with PvE, it’s up for debate whether or not is effective there, But that’s more of a problem with the design of the content then it is with the mechanics of a class

I was just looking through all the pet abilities, and I know from experience when they will use a certain skill at a certain time, And I can usually plan my actions accordingly. Ex; I know my bird will grant AoE swiftness when I send it to attack anything, so I send it to attack a random mob and call it back to gain out of combat swiftness.

While I can understand each pet mechanic and how to use them, I think the game could do a better job explaining how each pet will use it’s non-f2 skill. Maybe add in a short description on non-f2 skill when the pet is mostly to use the skill. It might get people thinking those skills aren’t as random as they think. Like if I’m someone new, how would I know when my devourer will use it retreat skill?

I think the pet skills in general need a pass anyway, updating the description on those skill like you did for everything else. Because I know when my bird does it’s swoop attack, it does an evade, even though it doesn’t say so on the skill itself.

Specific Game Mode
I want to say PvX because it deals more with the mechanics of the ranger and their pet more as a whole. Sorry if i can’t be specific, not really easy to pinpoint, if anything i’ll say PvE.

Proposal Overview
Looking at skills and trait that allow the player to harm their pet instead of working with them.

Goal of Proposal
For a class that needs to rely on their pets for damage, utility and support. why are there abilities that allows the ranger to harm their pet. Why aren’t there more skills and traits that allow the 2 to work with each other, to buff and heal instead on dumping all of the players problem on the pet.

“Protect me”, Signet of Renewal, Empathic Bond; These skills don’t promote working with the pet, they turn the pet to more like a buffer, something to absorb damage from the ranger. If you were going to do that, you could’ve just gotten rid of the pet, give the ranger more health and armour, and call it a warrior.

We need more abilities like Rampage As One, Like you gain/lose X when your pet does/gets Y and vise verse. Why couldn’t traits like Companion’s Might (critical strike grants might to your pet) effect the player the same way it effects pet. (gain might when your pet crits).
Proposal Functionality
Not having your pet die I would think be pretty important thing for the ranger, and there is enough in this game that can kill the pet just fine with out the rangers help. Mostly with large scale events or WvW groups, as well as bosses.

Associated Risks
This would add a degree of complexity to the ranger. The player would need to be aware what actions he or the pet needs to take in order for the other to benefit. but could be rewarding as well when player are able to pull off certain combos.

332, I tired, i really did

This miasma is just a stronger version of the toxin from a few months back.
And like the old toxin, the probably an antitoxin for it, not too hard to believe that scarlet’s minion would have this

Klonex.4562:

i still prefer Kiel over him ~

how can you not love her with a face like this:

Burn her, burn the witch!

RyuDragnier.9476:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Because they are not real.

Oh thank GOD. A lot of those changes to thief and ranger were worrying me.

i was worried too until i actually read the patch noted for those classes,
I knew they were fake, because most of the nerfs came with buffs to compensate, and that’s not how anet rolls

Bran.7425:

Wonder what keeps delaying them?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Format-Proposal/page/3#post3666312

My understanding is I think this week has been pretty busy for them/some people have been away, and they just want to give this it’s full attention

Razor.6392:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Razor.6392:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Wrong on so many levels…no to all of those, ESPECIALLY Shadow Refuge. For Lyssa’s sake man, SR has so many counters it isn’t even funny! You have to stay in the AoE THE ENTIRE TIME it’s out to get the stealth. If you leave it at any time, you get revealed. Meaning enemies can and will use AoEs on you, Fear, Push, Pull, and Knockback to kill the thief inside or force them out and into the open with reveal. It’s way too easy to take out a thief just due to seeing the refuge. If you’re having problems with this skill, there is no kind way to say this…but please, for the love of Ascalon, LEARN TO PLAY!

Obviously plays thief.

Listen fella, the counters that you list aren’t available on demand for every class out there, so it’s pointless to list them as the definite solution because that simply doesn’t work in every case.

And lol what? wrong in all of those? So according to your pathetic noob kitten , healing signet of all things is fine? Why do I even bother with all of these losers…

Let me show all the counters each class has.

Ranger: Spike Trap, Flame Trap, Viper’s Nest, Bonfire, Barrage, Entangle, Storm Spirit -> Call Lightning

Elementalist: Lava Font, Gust, Eruption, Shockwave, Shatterstone, Drake’s Breath, Ring of Fire, Fire Garb, Cone of Cold, Updraft, Ring of Earth, Earthquake, Churning Earth, Comet, Arcane Wave, Glyph of Storms, Tornado

Engineer: Blunderbuss, Jump Shot, Blow Torch, Magnetic Shield -> Magnetic Inversion, any bomb/grenade/flamethrower skill, Throw Mine, Fumigate, Acid Bomb, Box of Nails, Elixir X

Guardian: Symbol of Wrath, Binding Blade -> Pull, Mighty Blow, Ring of Warding (don’t suggest this unless you have a helper AoEing the spot), Wave of Wrath, Symbol of Swiftness, Symbol of Faith, Smite, Shield of Judgement, Shield of Absorption, Zealot’s Flame, Cleansing Flame, Purging Flames, Sanctuary, Smite Condition, Tome of Wrath

Mesmer: Mind Stab, Illusionary Wave, Chaos Storm, Temporal Curtain -> Into the Void, The Prestige

Necromancer: Doom, Life Transfer, all staff marks, Unholy Feast, Grasping Dead, Enfeebling Blood, Locust Swarm, Corrosive Poison Cloud, Well of Suffering, Plague, Lich Form

Warrior: Whirlwind Attack, Earthshaker, Hammer Shock, Combustive Shot, Arcing Arrow, Cyclone Axe, Whirling Axe, Tremor, Stomp, Fear Me!, Rampage

Thief: Clusterbomb, Choking Gas, Caltrops, Dagger Storm, Exploding Venom Sack, Skull Fear, Whirling Axe

Looking at this, the only ones who should be having any kind of problems with dealing with opponents in Shadow Refuge should be thieves and mesmers. But considering most mesmers take either focus on offhand (due to Temporal Curtain providing one of the only sources of Swiftness) or Greatsword, they’re already prepared to counter thieves most of the time. A thief versus thief battle…that usually depends on their builds.

Dude I’m not saying that refuge should be deleted, just moved to elite so calm down.

All of what you’ve listed is 1v1 / last resort SR usage counters. There are more uses to SR than those… way more.

Damage is damage, and thieves are allergic to taking damage, so any pressure you put in that circle won’t go unrewarded, especially if he is trying to rez, or stomps ( which aoe CC will help against as well)

I think your the one that needs to calm down, it’s not like anet with take this seriously :P

Edit: inb4 another “lol Obviously plays thief” comment.

Zhaitan invades Lions arch, he send a few ships, small army, and it can get taken back within a day,

Scarlet invades lion arch, and there’s a drill in the middle of the bay

Doggie.3184:

Rafahil.2857:

I’ve started using P/D on my D/D zerker build solely for the P/D #3 skill. Open with D/D and troll with P/D #3. Surprisingly it works so far.

I’ve tried that before when I realized how much direct damage that skill does. Why do our weapon skill setups make no sense? If they have that skill Cond+high direct dmg why can’t the auto attack be that way? O_o and Death Blossom.

You can’t spam p/d shadow strike as effectively compared to death blossom.

EverythingXen.1835:

I hope Ms. Murdock gets a lot of information from the AI programmers before she starts the thread on Monday, and sets as clear ground rules on it as possible.

Rangers are certain to win the vote, and I’d hate for the thread to waste time on Pet AI complaints/suggestions that have zero technical feasibility of ever being fixed/implemented.

If that is the case, if rangers win, maybe make 2 CDI threads, one for technical/bug issues,
The 2nd for actually balance stuff.

Hell that would work on most professions right? Engineers and their turrets could work for this.

Curunen.8729:

snow.8097:

guys ist about Balance, not only buffs=P

1) Warrior (too much of everything, slight corrections and i think he is balanced)
2) PU Mesmer ( defensive of enorm condi dmg and dmg of phantasms is too much)
3) Ranger ( Ranger is not as bad as everyone thinks, just some synergy between skills, effects and traits would be cool )

OP says “needs the most help” => sounds like buff rather than balance to me.

Too late. the dev’s will look at that and be like “O.O what warriors need help? We’re on it >:(.”

Thief
Rangers
Elementialist

In that order

If I’m not mistaken, wasn’t the last major nerf to mesmers was the change to blurred frenzy from an invul to and evade back in June? After that maybe a few bug fixes but nothing I would call crippling.
Before that I can only think of the glamour nerfs way back then.
IMO Mesmers had a pretty good track record with avoiding nerfs.

oZii.2864:

That is what I am wondering last time they did a preview of the 10 December Patch nothing changed between that and the actual patch.

a few added things and some changes discussed from the preview thread, but the bulk of it remained unchanged, i know i’m not expecting a lot. :.(

I don’t think moving the damage from auto (direct or condition) is a good idea
All it would do is forced the thief to spend initiative on damage instead of using them for utility, and any use of aa would be a lose of dps/pressure.

Look at p/p, all your damage in a direct damage build is in your unload. you can use other skills like the daze, blind, or immobilize, but because they fight for initiative with your main damage source, you just punish your self when you use anything else.
And using your aa in that kind of build just tanks your damage hard.

Now you can say just spread the damage evenly between the 4 other skills, but anet has a thing about giving more dps to control/support skill, which is what 3 of the skills on p/p are. And people will just spam what ever is easier to hit with anyways.

I don’t know about you, but spamming my aa and being reward when I want use my other skills seems a lot better then spamming an initiative based skill and being punish when I do something different, it’s a lot less boring too.

As for condition damage, only 2 mh weapons have condi damage on the auto, and I never heard the bleed on the pistol or the poison on dagger really being an issue :/

Josh Davis.6015:

Thief has been added to the list. Sorry about the copy/pasta fail.

Again, where’s the thief update?…….oh wait pulls out a microscope yay there it is……..

In all seriousness, a little light don’t you think?

Something stealth based that can go off passively, and doesn’t have the potential in accidentally harming the thief?……hmmmm

When health threshold reaches 10-25%, you are immune to reveal for 2-3 seconds, (30s cd)
Something like that? I think it would be fine, I would think if a thief is that low of health, the last thing on his mind would be spamming backstabs.

I would like to point out that I would trade thieves shadow step away after CC for guardian’s retal in a heart beat. That just me though…..and every other thief in the game

Wile.5024:

BobbyT.7192:

If you think about it, all someone has to do when they see a thief stealth is put up a block/ aoe blind and you stop a thief every time, seeing is that most block and blind skills will last longer then the thief will be in stealth for. If people think that “mindlessly attacking” is bad, mindless defence would be worst. I know I would never want to fight a guardian ever again.

This is just wrong… how long does it take for a thief to aa with backstab, 0.5s / attack? So that’s how much will aegis/blind give you, and since the stealth duration is usually 3-4 seconds that doesn’t count for much. Stuff like shield stance or distortion or invulnerability have up to 90s of cooldown, other classes get heavily punished if they waste their abilities attacking a target that is shielded, why not the thief too?

This “mindless defence” you’re talking about doesn’t rly exist in the game, even equally skilled bunkers will go down when the defensive cooldowns are off.

Paulie.6215:

Sounds like someone just got beat up by a thief…

Yes I’ve been beaten by thieves multiple times, I’ve also killed at least as many by playing pvp and wvw since launch. I also have a thief (my other lvl 80 char). I’m did not make this thread cause I was beat up by a thief but because of the reasons I gave in the previous posts.

Doesn’t matter what the cool down of the defence skill would be, if it can reveal a thief, it has done it’s job and you can proceed to smash the defenceless target.

A thief won’t backstab as soon as it enters stealth, (unless it a cnd>Bs combo, but you can see that coming more or less), they would need time to get into position, enough time for anyone to react.

Swap engineer mortar with the charr’s charrzooka, make it a kit, and boom(pun?) better skill,
I tried liking the mortar, I really did.

I think the devs have said in one of their live streams that having blocked or missed stealth attacks would mess up the balance so much, that they don’t want to do it or at least make that decision so lightly.
If you think about it, all someone has to do when they see a thief stealth is put up a block/ aoe blind and you stop a thief every time, seeing is that most block and blind skills will last longer then the thief will be in stealth for. If people think that “mindlessly attacking” is bad, mindless defence would be worst. I know I would never want to fight a guardian ever again.

Stop feeding those trolls guys -_-

NinjaEd.3946:

rjinx.1378:

side note/request:
please remove Hard to Catch all together.

Or make it actually break stun, or stealth.. this trait is just horrible.

Side note-

Other useless traits include:

Assassin’s retreat (really? On kill? that’s not retreating you fool)
Potent Poison (our poison duration is long enough)
Improvisation (too random, and we don’t get bundles, I mean who made this?)
Patience (easily outdone. Not worth a 20 point investment)
Fleet shadow (can’t really see it being picked over II or III. Maybe merge into patience to make it worthy?)
Instinctual response (no control, can really backfire when you need stealth)
Last refuge (same deal, no control)
Long reach (yes, lets steal from afar Vs. gaining fury might swiftness, or caltrops or dps? Every adept trait beats this guy, and for obvious reasons).

Thinking about assassin’s reward, I think if it removed a condition when you spend X initaitive, it would be good. With the change with initiative gain, could be a good reason to spec in to it high initiative gain, and take skills like RoI,
Hard to catch, instinctual response and last refuge needs a rework.
Fleet of shadow has too much competition in the adept space, so merging it with a lesser used major could work, same with long reach.
Some people take improvsation in their build, if they rework the bundle damage part, then I could see it get more used.
Potent poison should effect more than posion, say torment, vul and weakness, and be renamed of course, potent infection?

Elementalist have this trait, and it’s a 30 pointer, with a 10 second icd, aoe mind you.
Rangers had almost a trait like this back in early beta, didn’t heal but was also aoe,
Both trait were/are considered to be must haves,

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TJ3McGxuTxE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DTJ3McGxuTxE

>_>

MOOOODS, their fighting again and ruining my christmas!!!! DX

The purple

And the butterflies

So we have one side saying thieves are OP,
One side defending the thieves,
And burnfall spouting some random crap that doesn’t make sense

…….Merry christmas all

In my experience, if you want to build for a tanker thief, I found having only roughly 500 healing to be more than enough, (so just your trinkets).
That’s enough to keep a decent amount sustain damage off you, even out heal some condition damage quite well,

After that you can put of some non cleric armour on, I usually use a mix of knight and cavalier , which still gets you a 4-6k backstab, and you keep the toughness

Edit: I should also point out those number are with taking the 30 point in shadow and throwing it in crit, so you lose a bit of toughness, but I never had an issue with that.

Azraelle.1683:

Doggie.3184:

I’ve actually not seen a HS spam Thief in like half a year or more. Not sure how you’re finding so many.

2 HS’es on low hp enemy=spam.

What do you want?a death blossom inbetween them?

I’m sorry but that’s not spam

Burnfall.9573:

Sincerely, Op i do embrace your thread requesting thieves to have build diversity.

Unfortunately, there’s a problem.

Thief was designed to have a close minded, selfish, , self centered build. And what do they get in return; no diversity.

Secondly, Thief was not design to have build diversity, they were designed with a 1 kill spam stealth build.

again, the reason why thief class does not have build diversity > “Selfishness leads to nothingness”.

“Diversity is contributing to others”

Thief Diversity, “contributing to self”.

that’s all i have to say.

at first, I thought wow! Such anger, but then I saw it was burnfall then I lol’d

Here are my idea for a off-hand sword.
Sword #4: Wild throw, (600 range) Throw your sword at the target, that pierces though them. If it hits, you can activate the second skill. (4 initiative)
Stalker strike; teleport to the swords location and attempt a strike at your target, (2 initiative)
could be used as an attack or a from of juking if you let the sword travel a distance before you use the second skill

Sword #5:Deadly riposte; Block an attack and teleport behind your target(600-900range), preform an attack based on your main hand. (3 initiative)
Sword: Blades of Steel; attack with both sword around you. (1 initiative)
Dagger: Shadow stab; Slightly quicker and weaker version of back stab (2 initiative)
Pistol: Shattered shot; Point blank unblockable shot that strips a boon(I initiative)

S/S: Impossible odds; (no inital initiative cost) (3 seconds)block all attacks, lose one initiative and attempt melee per block, gain 1 initiative when you successfully hit.
( Bit of a weird one, and sounds op, but it’s meant for a thief to be up close and personal, with the counter being staying at range to drain initiative)

D/S: (3 combo chain) Pheonix strike; Attack with both weapon and gain vigor for (2-3 second) (1 initiative)
Mantis sting, ; cripple target ( 2 initiative)
Horns of the ox; knock down moving target (2 initiative)
(Because it might be the only way we can get a knockdown on a weapon set, behind a initiative based combo chain, with added moving requirement, and the combo would look fancy as hell)

P/S: Leap and Retreat;(450-600 range) Leap at the target with a sword attack, and leap back with a pistol shot, (3 initiative)
(Combines the old sword 2 and pistol 4 from back in the beta,)

My QQs will go anywhere they please. Sometimes I come with.

I don’t thing it’s wrong to be considered the “off-hand” of choice, I wish P/P was even close to that.

Just grab a wrench and start beating people over the head with it.

Nick.6972:

Is it just me or is this “Zerker only or leave” thing only on official forums?
Almost 1000 hour total playtime and no one has ever asked me to ping my gear.
Weird.

pretty sure it’s a forum thing, people posting on here thinking they are better then everyone else.