Guild Wars 2

I understand that low-skill casuals will have trouble with a high-skill class like d/d ele. Especially if all they’re used to is the simplicity of thief or warrior. However this does not mean the class is broken. It simply means that those players are of a higher caliber, more skilled and have taken the time to learn a far more complex class design than the aforementioned noob-gibbers. There’s nothing wrong with this, low skill casuals CAN improve. Find yourself a skilled player and ask them about their ele.

Dyes are luck.
I’ve gotten black/white/midnight ice/abyss on a few characters without buying them.

It’s working as intended. If you don’t want to actually be a “stylist” then just leave your game set to auto color match you to the team you’re on. Problem solved.

Nier.2478:

because they are theory crafting and did not even have the decency to seek out potential nor even try to prove that it doesn’t have any worth via videos, then that is BAD feedback on balancing.

TL;DR It would be great if people actually tried and proved builds instead of calling it “not viable” out of the blue.

Theorycrafting is an objective view of the math and functions available. In short, the facts. When you have videos showing the ‘potential’ then you are adding in variable player skill which attempts to skew the math. Min/maxing is about the facts, not scenarios of “if you’re better than the other player then the build works”.

This is the essence of character building and theorycrafting, it’s all about the math.

hharry.1967:

Guys quit sPvP, play PvE/WvWvW ….even if it is not pvp related.

I really don’t understand what the hang up is that some people have with this.

In S’PvP’/T’PvP’ you have ‘Players vs Players’ combat (with other boring objectives)
Hence it is PvP
In W3 you have ‘Players vs Players’ (with other sometimes boring objectives)
Hence it is PvP

The elitism high-horse that much of the community has is pathetic.

Stiv.1820:

Anything that I loose to ever is not fun for me.

Wear a belt, and buy clothes in the proper size.

Lowellollipop.5817:

Gold = Karma = Glory = currencies not involving real money and you should be able to trade one to another somehow

Experience (levels) = Ranks

Skins = Skins

We’re only talking about currencies, not the rest. Are we?

Gold = Gems = Currency involving RL money actually.

When did Schwar change his name to Nier? Pity the attitude didn’t change along with it.

Indeed. And PvE’ers along with WuvWuv players should get glory boosters, ranks, finishers and armor unlocks with achievements from PvE and WuvWuv as well.

If it’s not a two-way street then it’s hardly fair.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

But heartseeker probably should not auto-target, or have the leap.

The leap would be fine as long as the auto-target was removed. It’d be like burning speed that way with d/d ele’s, where you actually have to think, position correctly with proper range for it to execute right and you know, have skill.

Hell same goes for deathblossom for that matter. Though I just hate anytime the game plays for you:
auto-face/target/tracking
AI pets
etc.

When many people call you out as having a bad elitist attitude then chances are it’s because that’s how you come off. Of course barring a few select players that seems to be the standard behavior/personality of the ‘pros’ here on the forums.

Also no matter how many times you say “TEAM!” and “not 1v1!” it really doesn’t change the fact that the larger proportion of the playerbase isn’t interested in jumping through the hoops, arsekissing, and sillyness it takes to organize their life around a team. Nor does it change the fact that more people would be interested in 1v1 balance and small scale (1v1, 2v2, 3v3) pvp which is much more conducive to playing with some friends than they are with the whole ‘pro team yo!’ style of 5v5.

This has pretty much held true with PvP in recent MMO’s as a collective whole as well. People like duels, people enjoy seeing who is the better player in 1v1’s. People have expressed this constantly in game after game after game. Yet the reply is always “but but TEAM! 1v1’s can never be balanced! It’ll remove class diversity!” and all the other myths which attempt to cover up the truth that “1v1 balance is harder than hiding behind a group-based-game defense, so why bother”.

Constantly saying “I’m awesome, you’re bad, L2P” (yes that’s what your posts sound like no matter how much you try to say that’s not what you’re saying) is meaningless beyond stroking your own kitten. Especially when you reduce yourself to the ridiculousness of bragging about your 1337 math skillz yo and how your kid is brilliant because he learned to walk, of course because of your crazy swag parenting skills dawg.

/eyeroll

PowerBottom.5796:

Just because in the current Metagame, nobody really plays conditions anymore… There might be a Necro on many Teams, so if you play the Ele as an offensive roamer, that will often fight Necro’s, Ether Renewal is incredibly strong, because it gives you an Auto-win on most Builds.

Ppl will most likely neglect Condi-Remove even more in the near future, until others realize it and go for a lot of sustain and heavy condition-builds, totally bashing most glass-cannon builds and punish Teams for not running enough Condi-Removal.

Between cleansing fire, cleansing 2 condi’s every time we switch to water, and water5 I’ve never really noticed needing more condi removal tbh. Typically anytime there’s a large stack I need to burn off I can do it at will.

Wait, there’s ele’s that use ether renewal? wtf?

pffft, signet heal all the way, heal through casting imo.

Hammerheart.1426:

Do we really want spectators watching players while they trash talk each other?

TBH, NO.
There’s enough pandering to arrogant children nowadays as it is.

The worst part of the internet, or at least really high up there, would have to be the verbal defecation kids spew forth because they won’t get popped in the mouth for it like in the real world.

Hammerheart.1426:

Common factor? Stealth. Stealth is annoying. There isn’t a single MMO that incorporates stealth where stealth hasn’t been annoying.

^
This is basically all it is. Doesn’t matter if stealth classes can even kill anyone, you could gut them to do 1hp damage on their hardest hitting attack. Wouldn’t change the fact that stealth/invisibility is the most obnoxious annoying thing ever put in mmos. It’s been kittened about, vehemently, in all of them. Seems to be a common factor. Stealth is just lame, annoying and a crappy mechanic to have in pvp situations.

DaliIndica.9041:

But by that train of thought shouldnt they remove the all chat functions from the game? Anything can be abused, its no reason to not use it. Besides, just have a clear policy that if someone blocks you, then its account wide so that person will never be bothered by you again (as an example of course, nothing with you personally)

Besides, its high time games companies started adding voice chat to team based games which REALLY need communication.

Or something like Cartographer for WoW, the addon. You had your normal map, but the points of interest (nodes in gw2 case) you could right click them and have a few options like “windmill needs help” or “mansion is safe”. Just a few things that are easy to do. Something better than chat, which is fine for down time but the speedy nature of the game means chat isnt always usable.

Wouldn’t be an issue if people would just grow up and start acting like civilized human beings instead of egotistical little prats.

Yes I know there’s a better chance of being struck by lightning while winning the lottery on a leap year friday the 13th than this happening.

Art.9367:

Remember what happened when they gave everyone mics with their Xbox 360? Yeahhhh… I think they should concentrate on other areas of the game before thinking about in-game voice chat.

lol, very true.

Schwahrheit.4203:

Come watch my stream, twitch.tv/blacktruth009

I checked it out for about 10 minutes of watching your team roll a complete pug, talk trash about them, stroke your own ego’s and basically circleje|2k to your own sense of superiority before turning it off lest I vomit.

Schwahrheit.4203:

He has a point, do you really think hard work doesn’t pay off?

And where did I say that “hard work doesn’t pay off”?
Please quote that part of my post and show me.

• In all honesty the only two streams I can watch without finding the person to be a completely self obsessed jackhole are xeph’s and teldo’s streams. They actually seem to be somewhat polite and mature while they’re playing with an absolute minimum of insulting the people they’re playing against. *

Chi Malady.2015:

How many people are going to waste time finding a pick-up tournament group only to grief?

90% of the players here I’d estimate from what i’ve seen in not only this community but most MMO communities since the days of AC:DT’s later life.

Shukran.4851:

how can it be possible.
you join a team to start tourney
you ask if viop is used or not.
people harass? quit; i don’t know what kind of persons u play with free and paid. but if i look for some team i think i play with mature people.

PUBLIC voip.
Usually teams use some other private voip.
Also the people I play with in frees are randoms, most of which have severe anger issues and maturity deficit problems it seems. I haven’t done paids since my pvp group left before they were implemented for P.Side2. I’ve done a few ‘team forming’ experiments and yet all I run into it seems are divas with ego issues. Watch the ‘pro’ streams and it’s kids talking trash about the pugs they’re stomping while circle stroking their own imagined magnificence. It’s mildly disgusting.

DaliIndica.9041:

Braxxus.2904:

PCproffy.8549:

It’s not a 1v1 game

yet 1v1s happen often. Also still a cop out for lazy balancing (balancing for 1v1 is hard yo, so we just won’t try).

PCproffy.8549:

Learn how to synergize with a team.

Learn to put up with egotistical kids and stroke other peoples egos you mean. No thanks, most people don’t have the time nor inclination to put up with that.

Your response made me think of “I have neither the time, nor the inclination to explain myself to you. I would rather you just thanked me and went about your day” From A Few Good Men. Classic film, Tom Cruise was shown for the hack he is against the mighty Jack Nicholas. I never get his name right, I confuse him the the golfer guy with a similar name. I know I have google, but for some reason it feels like cheating. Like either I know it or I don’t, and I should accept the mistake and grow from it.

Jack Nicholson. Living bad-anet-will-censor-this. Good film too.

Shukran.4851:

because turning voip chat OFF in options is too mainstream???
come on guys, be serious sometimes

Because harassment and griefing players who refuse to join the voip cesspool clique of narcissism running rampant NEVER happens right?

PCproffy.8549:

It’s not a 1v1 game

yet 1v1s happen often. Also still a cop out for lazy balancing (balancing for 1v1 is hard yo, so we just won’t try).

PCproffy.8549:

Learn how to synergize with a team.

Learn to put up with egotistical kids and stroke other peoples egos you mean. No thanks, most people don’t have the time nor inclination to put up with that.

Darnis.4056:

How can you say that there is no negatives just because you can turn it off?

Every single time I’ve played these wonderful fps games there’s always ATLEAST one guy ruining voip by being a belligerent kitten

If you turn your voip off you’re hurting your team you have to either mute or kick the kitten and then hope the next guy is normal, people rage way too much in pickup games already, just check out map chat, I don’t want to hear scrub player x telling scrub player z why his build is kitten and 4 signets is a terrible idea or raging after someone fails to stomp and then I have to listen to him for the rest of the game.

public voip opens up a can of worms for the company; do we Moderate voip? if so how; who’s going to pay for massive voip servers; New security problems etc etc

I don’t want to be singled out for not using terrible services, but I pug a lot, and I’m sure people would start singling me and others like me out for not using public Voip.

^
This.

Public voips in games have only shown how many angsty tweens, poorly raised children and moronic ‘adults’ there are out there. It’s like concentrated ear pollution. No thank you. I can only hear ‘ kitten *t, umad’, and other stupid meme crap so many times in one life and that got exceeded a long time ago.

Lavexis.5360:

warrior has the best downed state IMO and ranger is the second best.

Either this is a hardcore troll or this is an admittance of having 1 finger and the gaming skill of an anemic snail.

Seriously now, wtf.

Dee Jay.2460:

I think the crucial difference as to why Thieves receive so much more complaints than all other professions combined is because they simply aren’t fun to play against

^
This is really all it is, and has been with rogues/sins/etc from other MMO’s too. They’re just un-fun annoying little prats. Doesn’t matter at all what their damage is, could be 1 point per ability, doesn’t matter how OP or UP they actually are. The mechanics are just ‘lame’ and ‘un-fun’.

A pretty sure-fire solid foundation would be:
Guardian Bunker (there’s a few variant builds here)
Mesmer far point/portal-bomber/general kitten the other players up guy (cannot go wrong with 20/20/0/0/30)

After that a fairly excellent selection of characters for the other 3 slots:
D/D Ele 0/10/-/20+/30
Necro – Not sure here I don’t have enough experience on mine. However I did have moderate success fooling around with a well build
Thief roamer (a really well played ranger also meshes well with a d/d ele and a necro)

Raynh.2480:

How is this matching system even remotely fair?

It’s not.

Also forewarning you about the forthcoming streams of insults, L2P’s baddie, bad, quit being bad, get skilled and other variant responses from elitist narcissistic ‘pros’ inhabiting the forums.

Good luck to you, sincerely.

This thread is a perfect example of the collective disgusting narcissism rampant in the ‘pro’ pvp ‘community’.

EaGrimdarK.7849:

I really dont understand how a couple people here in my thread dont understand how positive feedback is also considered constructive criticism(aka discussion). You probably have never been in management or leadership type roles in your lives, which is why you dont understand.

Because all of your posts are ego driven, elitism deifying, narcissistic swill which boils down to a belief that you are above anyone not like you. It is of course also a complete trolling based fabrication most likely and in the end just silly.

Oni.5429:

I do however disagree with the ’’fix’’ you have in mind here, the 3v3/1v1 ques wouldnt really amount to anything, competitive people would treat it the exact same way they treat free tournament and hotjoin, they’d say ‘’Who cares? That’s not the serious mode in the game, go 5v5s if you wanna be skilled’’ and the problem persists, because the game is not and will never be balanced around those modes.

I don’t know. I’d guess that the majority of casually competitive players would flock to those modes and give a crap less about 5v5. Sure the 5’s teams would talk kitten, but it would be ok because everyone else would be having fun and the 5’s teams would need something to do while they spend hours in a Q anyways.

If I could dual wield torches I would. Please ANet give rangers MH torches too!

Implement dueling mode (there’s 1v1)
and yes please to 2v2 and 3v3 tdm arenas. We already have 5v5 player vs circle the larger teams can stay there.

2v2 and 3v3 I think would be far more popular in terms of stream viewers than 5v5 player vs circle if they added it.

While we’re at it add other modes for 8v8 that make sense with larger maps for it. CTF, TDM, Huttball, etc. Something other than the tiny player vs circle maps.

Would it be too much to ask for it to provide a heal on burst skill use with the disc bonus increasing the amount it heals for? Perhaps giving warriors the sustainability other classes have with their self healing capabilities and actually promoting the use of adrenaline skills instead of hoarding them for the crit%, dam% and regen.

Arheundel.6451:

kitten

[img]http://i.imgur.com/85o9f.jpg[/img]

Never seen a team play hot join…sometimes I see two guys from some random PvE guild who still lose..but no PvP guild in hot join, baddies will create all sort of excuses to hide their lack of skill

What are you on about?
Never said anything about teams in hotjoin. I did say you were having an elitism tirade and apparently that’s still going on. Nice pic. Feel better? What does it have to do with 5v5’s becoming the unofficial dueling servers that all of the duelists took over? The level of self absorption you ‘pro’ team guys have is astounding.

You realize everything you post is narcissistic drivel right?

felivear.1536:

Play games more. My family is really holding me back from being able to play my desired 16 hours per day.

lol yeah they tend to do that…

But that’s why there’s college! Once you send them off then you just have to find something to keep your wife occupied. I suggest liquor and book clubs or something similar.

jubskie.3152:

So in zergs, would you as a melee player head off alone into a zerg? Of course not.

Actually if I’m on my thief or D/D ele then yes I absolutely do, as do most others because on those classes we can.

The issue is that ranger DPS is reliant on AI.
Stupid AI.
Really really stupid AI.

It paths poorly. It attacks in bad sequences. It dies in 1 aoe attack or 2-3 regular attacks. Even BM pets. It takes no time at all to lazily “meh dps” down a ranger pet when you face them in combat. You guys can only swap them what every 15 seconds if traited? 1 whirlwind attack will usually drop them via the aoe. On my ele they just die to the burst rotation i’m laying down on other people. On a thief I ignore them unless I want a free and reliable CnD.

Not saying the concept of the pets are bad, and some of the utility they give is quite nice. I’m saying their survivability and CONTROLS are terrible. And that’s ANets fault, not the players of the ranger.

Finally successfully quit smoking.

It’s a small and petty goal sure, but it’s really the biggest thing to achieve at this moment. Already got the career, the family, my physical health aside from smoking is good, etc.

But for the life of me getting rid of the cancer stick is proving most difficult.

Achieving “perfect balance” in an MMO, which is what people are jumping on Mufa about, is extremely hard sure. But it’s not that hard to achieve a close balance at all. MMO’s, from WoW to WAR, AoC and even SWTOR, have gotten really close to this at various points… and then for whatever reason the devs went all left-field and screwed it up.

In fact if you look at AoC, failed PvP title sure, there was a point before they added the emphasis on gear grinding (which was dumb) where they actually came really close to a nice balance between classes in PvP (open world, FFA gankfest. Couldn’t trust anyone, always had to be ready to get jumped everywhere… I loved it). It wasn’t “perfect”, but it was kitten close and every class had a viable chance in PvP versus anyone else.

Somewhere around the release of that asian expansion they got back to this close balance again… and then screwed the pooch again with the next few patches. Don’t know why, but whatever. Was EVERY spec viable? No. But every class had at least 3 different fully viable specs, often with fairly different feels and themes to them, both in 1v1’s and in groups without having to change a thing other than adjusting for the numbers via player input.

GW2 has some great models for how class viability should go and one of the big issues is this kitten focus on “stand the circle harder than the other guy” game mode. As much smack as people talk about WvW it truly does show what classes are truly capable of in PLAYER VS PLAYER situations, opposed to player vs circle, in a much better way than SPvP/TPvP. Most people aren’t going to be part of the “elite 1%” of “top tier tourney teams”. Not even close. And if PvP isn’t working for the masses there will be no interested population to ‘carry’ the e-sport part of the game.

Striving for a close balance with the classes is important because most people aren’t going to be taking the time and frustrating effort to form a “pro” team and eat, breathe, sleep, live and poo with them in order to be part of that 1%. They’re going to solo. They’re going to WvW. They’re going to run with guildies/friends. They’re going to run in small groups.

When people get to these areas and realize that their class is pretty kitten fubar against the god tier classes then that is demoralizing and especially when the “pros” tell them ‘l2p, your class is only supposed to do X… and be carried by a team". Who honestly likes that? I know some people defend it “for the group!!!!” but really now, most people don’t like being told that they have to be “carried” by other people to be viable. Or that they are destined to lose fights because the class “is ok in a group but gimp by itself.”

Despite ANet’s insistence that they “got rid of the holy trinity” they still have ‘roles’. Classes are severely imbalanced in the application and viability of these roles. That’s where balance lies. It might still be subjecting people to a cookie cutter iteration of the class but if every class has an equally viable:

Bunker
Roamer
Burst
Condition

spec to choose from then at least people can play the class they like, HOW they like. That kind of 1v1 balance is perfectly attainable.

EaGrimdarK.7849:

Sounds like I hit a nerve, though Im not sure what I said that upset you, I love PvP!!!! Even people that admitted they arent amazing can at least post on topic. The only time I mentioned myself was when I was referencing what I loved about it. In fact I used the words “we” and “us” more so than “I”.

I think I’m reading what you wrote wrong, Braxxus. Is English your first language? You clearly didnt read what I wrote, or maybe something you dont understand is upsetting you. If you have anything constructive to say or any real questions to ask I would love to answer them for you.

• More stuff

Can we please stay on topic?

The topic is your inflated ego and sense of superiority over others. You didn’t read anything wrong, just like I had no trouble at all reading your kitten stroking. Saying “We” and “Us” before a claim of superiority over others is including yourself in that, but I’m acutely aware that you know this already as this entire thread reeks of that word I’m not allowed by the moderators to say (starts with a t and ends in rolling).

But whatever, enjoy your self gratification thread.

Baam.2493:

This is incorrect. TF2 doesn’t have 1v1 balance, and I don’t know how you got that impression. For instance, scouts are significantly better at 1v1 then medic, pyro, demo man, sniper, and spy. It’s kind of like a fancy, skill based rock-paper-scissors.

Because I can 1v1 anyone on any class with any other class at any time purely depending on skill difference. The rock paper scissors is very very thin in TF2, probably by virtue of it being an FPS which immediately adds a level of balance far above any MMO style gameplay.

Vayra.3290:

As to the problem with 1v1 balance, I gave a rough explanation for why it won’t work in a different (now locked) thread. Simply put: 5v5 demands an entirely different approach to gameplay than 1v1 or 2v2. Skills that are balanced or even weak in 1v1 or 2v2 can be gamebreaking in 5v5 and vice versa. And changing it so that is balanced in the other form might make it useless or gamebreaking in the other.

And the thing was that you were wrong in that other thread too. It’s the same tired MMO “myth” about balance which is just a cop out excuse for lazy balancing teams and development.

EaGrimdarK.7849:

I love sPvP.

Im not a try hard, I’m not a no-lifer, I’m only ranked in the mid 30’s because I mistakenly got a character to 80. We are only called these names because people are jealous.

Some of us are just born better, some of us start off at a higher level of skill and understanding than others. I see, talk with, and play with/against these people every day in sPvP. We are a niche community, and a lot of wvw/pve fanboys have a lot to complain about us, and with good reason. We make it hard.

I LOVE gw2 sPvP, and yeah its lacking in certain aspects and you would kind of expect more from the hype, but the quality of the pvp that is available is better than anywhere else I could go. Its not about the rewards, or the options, or diverse pvp content, what is already there promises an amazing future. That stuff comes in time.

Every single MMO that has tried to accomplish a solid pvp component has started off basic and expanded from there. I can wait, I’m patient. Patience is one of those things that makes US better.

:)

Love,
Nunganok[WMD] – Waste Management and Disposal – Recruiting sPvP’ers.

Actually you’re just another narcissitic kiddy kitten himself to his own imagined elitist grandeur and trying not to get cheeto dust on your unit.

I mean, that’s pretty much the idea that your self obsessed post gave off anyways.

Arheundel.6451:

I laugh at people who still bash at hot join, you’ve been crying for how long to get a 5vs5 mode…and look at it now, the 8vs8 zerg is still there, full servers againt the almost empty 5vs5 servers.

I call it hypocrisy, you want easy mode on everything and the first sign of loss or you rage quit…or come whine on the forums with OP this and OP that, the 5vs5 servers are there already..so why you keep kittening crying? and why the 5vs5 servers are so kittening empty?…lol

Sorry to bust your elitism tirade (like most pug farmers on some team) but the 5v5 servers have for the most part been taken over by the “leet duelers yo”. Finding a 5v5 server that’s actually playing the map, and not being farmed by some scrub “team” because they can’t be arsed to do paids like they should is akin to finding a 2 dollar bill attached to a 100 dollar bill underneath your door in the morning.

I used to run all sorts of different sigils on my MH weapon for various builds in WvW. However I’ve since become of the mind that the aoe fire burst proc is just overall useful all the time whereas others are situationally useful. So now I always run with fire on my MH weapons (save some cash and get the majors. It’s only 20% to proc, but deals the same damage. yeah it’s 10% less chance to proc but in practice I really don’t notice that difference as it seems to go off as soon as it’s off cooldown like clockwork with a 30% unbuffed crit chance).

Especially in group fights and on ranged weapons it just seems to be a very efficient sigil choice.

Slic.9541:

Braxxus.2904:

I was entertained enough. Thanks.

I still don’t understand the music from your generation though. Sounds like a casio keyboard getting dropped down a long flight of stairs while a person who can’t sing discovers an autotuner. Just getting old I guess.

Thanks! haha Idk… I just like how it sounds! Will try better music for next video then!

Lol, don’t worry bout that. Use the music that YOU enjoy all the way man. Music is all personal taste anyways, was just an idle comment on my part about it.

Gilgamesh.2561:

What they are afraid of with 1v1 ranking is that it will show how bad class balance is in the game. But they should not be afraid of it but embrace it, because it is essential part of good balancing system (which I will explain in another post).

This is part of it.

Realistically, the development cost is the major issue. GW2 probably already has such a deeply-engrained infrastructure that such changes would require massive rewrite of code. In other words, it’s the kind of features you need to build from the ground up — like when developing a new game. I’m not hopeful of GW2 having traditional death-match style arena brackets.

As for class balancing and 1v1, there is literally no historical data that 1v1 would impede balancing for other game modes. Why? There is no evidence for it. There is no MMO that has 1v1 PvP brackets, at least no mainstream MMO. Everyone who claims 1v1 would impair balancing has no concrete proof, only theory.

^
Agreed as it’s pretty much truth, especially about the class balancing. People like spouting the whole myth that it’s “impossible” or would “ruin the game” because it’s “bad for MMO’s” but it’s a bunch of hooey. Every time people post about how 1v1 balance would ruin teamplay I would sincerely like to point out every competitive FPS that has ever existed throughout time.

Even TEAMFortress 2, which is massively popular still, has “classes” within it and yet still maintains perfectly viable 1v1 balance between them.

mcarswell.3768:

i’d just like to say that sure, elementalists can be overpowered, but only in the hands of a skilled player.

Isn’t that how it should be though? Warriors don’t have that option currently to accomplish feats like the video because of inherent class design flaws. With an Ele you have the potential for crazy strong capabilities if you put in the effort. With a warrior no matter how good you are if you go against 2-3 people with a basic capability to use a cripple/chill/immobilize and auto attack you then you will eventually just die.

Agreed.

In response from the other thread.

@braxxus
I’m affraid it will be impossible to add the option to balance around 1v1 in a team based game such as Guild wars 2

It’s really not. That’s just a cop-out excuse for lazy balancers.

… relying on our team is what pvp in a MMo should be all about.

No. That’s just an opinion. And many other people disagree. Being forced to peen-suckle other people isn’t good. Being FORCED to rely on other people, which you cannot rely on, is alienating a large population of players who don’t want to deal with the egos, the politics, the immaturity and all of the other crap.

Again, 1v1 removes way to much options and build viability. It becomes mostly a dps race and who can pop their defensive cooldowns first and let not forget line of sight. In other words… bunker with a lot of surviviability… and glass canon with good mobility. That’s exactly what we want to avoid!

That’s exactly what we have now, and we’re not even remotely close to 1v1 balance.
1v1 balance doesn’t remove build viability, it promotes it. It also in an ideal world promotes more middle of the ground builds opposed to extremes.
There’s no reason to keep perpetuating the mmo myth that “balance is impossible” especially at the individual level. After all they did just fine with thieves, mesmers and ele’s when it comes to 1v1 viability along with solid group functionality. So it is possible.

Angriff.1935:

So what you’re saying is that you don’t want to play with a team and you want it to be 1v1 all day long.

No, I’m saying I would like the option. I’ve had teams. I’m still probably a bit bitter about my team, except for 1 member, leaving for planetside2 until something worthwhile comes out (we’re discussing forge as another possibility). The prospect of going through the terrible terrible time of wading through the hordes of angry narcissistic “kids” (mentally) to form another team is akin to the idea of removing my own eyes with a coffee spoon.

Angriff.1935:

Believe it or not, other people like playing as a team and being able to create builds that complement each other, rather than everyone being as self sufficient as possible.

Believe it or not I like playing as a team. I also however don’t like relying on other people. I prefer the option, and with 1v1 balance this is possible. With terrible rock>paper>scissors balance it’s crap and has been crap forever (imo). Some people, like yourself disagree, and that’s cool. I’m merely expressing an opposing opinion, not claiming it to be fact. You feel one way where you like to have balance revolving around having a group on-call that synergizes well. I feel another way where I don’t want to have balanced play require me to wait until I have other people to “carry” the shortcomings of whatever I choose to play. It drives me nuts.

I prefer the idea of solid balance at the solo level where the option for group synergy is there by combining the strength and the abilities each player has at their disposal to work together WITHOUT being completely kittened when they are roaming solo or in a small group (2-3). Granted I’m an FPS player at heart above all other gameplay styles, even though I do enjoy the idea of them, so that probably has alot to do with where I’m coming from. With 1v1 balance I can go in with my team and work together but also have the ability if kitten hits the fan to, through the practice I put in, go 12/1 kdr and bring back a win from what looked like defeat moments before.

Angriff.1935:

Balancing towards 1v1 or even 2v2 means any sort of group fight is gonna be a clusterkitten, which is where the game is at right now.

No, the game is a clusterkitten because of gameplay issues within the game itself, not because of balance at 1v1 or 2v2 level, because we don’t have balance at 1v1 or 2v2 level. We have balance at a team level for a conquest design, which is not remotely the same thing as balance for 1v1 or 2v2. The issues you’re seeing are because of design issues in both the game-mode and mechanical disparity of classes. If it WAS balanced at 1v1 or 2v2 then your point would be valid and we would be discussing ways to fix it, but since it’s not balanced in that manner…. /shrug

Angriff.1935:

If you balance towards group fighting, a good deal of the problems in the smaller fights are actually reduced as well.

No, because that’s where we are currently more than we are at a 1v1 level. Also balancing towards group fighting leads to the same crap we get in every other game that has modeled it’s “balance” around the “group”. Complete crap for the player that gets caught in a smaller fight with the “wrong class”. Oh you’re about to fight a frost mage, and you’re a warrior? Pffft, GG get kited unless the skill disparity is so large it could fill the voids in space because you should have learned to roll-your-class better noob. It’s terrible balance.

• Edit: I realize that yes there needs to be balance concerned with “top tier gameplay”. Of course. However you have to honestly ask yourself, how much of the population is actually going to be there? 1%? 5%? The vast vast vast vast vast vast (get the idea) majority of players are going to be playing in non-top-tier areas. WvW (which is immensely more fun than “stand in the circle better than the other guy” that the conquest mode of TPvP is imo) attracts a HUGE number of players compared to the top 1% of TPvP. It also has far more entertaining videos/streams. IMO.

Free tourney’s and hotjoins (they really should get rid of 8v8 and just keep them all 5v5 for hotjoins as well) will also have a far far far larger number of people in them compared to the elite 1%. Yes the top needs balance, but without people actually having FUN and enjoyable gameplay who cares? Again, looking at an FPS I know, how many FPS players are actually competing in the world tournaments? But there’s a crapload of people playing and trying to improve, forming clans, running pub tourney’s, etc etc. Because the game is fun and BALANCED at all levels. Solo player or clan X’s super squad. Here it doesn’t exist at all.

Poplolita.2638:

X profession/build weaknesses covered by Y and Y weaknesses covered by Z and so on is what pvp is all about. It creates a high variety of team composition

That’s poopy balance imo. In many other’s opinion too. Doesn’t make it right or wrong, but it is just as valid an opinion. Also the majority of players, if you haven’t noticed from the checkered past of “team based” mmo pvp (balance and gameplay) don’t feel like going though the hand-holding and circle jerking required nor have a desire to wade through the environment of overinflated egos from tweens for “team based” PvP to be the end-all-be-all.