Guild Wars 2

Torsailr.8456:

I’m probably in the minority here, but I’m kinda hoping the specialization will put more emphasis on mantras instead of phantasms/clones.

not necessarily mantras, but i want more emphasis on shutdown mesmer play. more emphasis on manipulating the enemy and less on creating butterfly explosions. in fact, if they somehow scrapped illusions entirely (really doubt it), i’d love them forever.

Dondagora.9645:

Here’s a completely out-of-the-world hope: a Chronomancer skill that can freeze time without interrupting anything. Like, for a brief second, we can pause the game in a certain around of effect. This could be an elite or our F4 mechanic, but I’m thinking if done in a small AoE of, lets say, 240 Radius around the mesmer it could work in a really cool way.

Another idea is a “Rewind” ability where you fear an enemy, then taunt them a second after, making them run back and forth.

if they could pause the game like that, we wouldn’t have such problems with DC’s in PvP :P

Konig Des Todes.2086:

• Master Togo ( must you ask why? – numbers may seem low for you GW2-only’s, but that was about 75% of the health bar most of the time, insta kill on normal NPC foes too, so think of it like doing 18k PBAoE damage I guess)

LOL i never knew that skill was a thing. god kitten it togo, should’ve kept you around more often.

anyway, i’ll echo that i want shiro and maybe kunavaang. can’t say i want the heroes or henchies to be options, as much as i liked some of them. Guess I’d rather Jora, Pyre & co.’s legacy to stay as homages throughout the game, not turn them into nigh-demigods.

Moo.3408:

New suicide killing: in sky hammer, taunt and jump off a cliff

not like you need taunt for that…

https://twitter.com/RoyCronacher/status/568120047975022592

Koviko.3248:

I wonder how many other Revenants there will be… Just Rytlock and the PC? A few NPCs in the new zones? Or NPCs all over Tyria?

technically speaking, all PCs are canon. sure, you’re the only one involved in the personal story, but every other PC you come across is a “professional adventurer”.

Koviko.3248:

Genesis.8572:

I can say that the matter is more of your frustrating inability to understand what the word “replica” means that makes you look foolish.

Foolish? The primary definition of a replica is an exact duplicate. A secondary definition is a close approximation. I stated earlier that a close approximation is possible, just not an exact replica. There’s no confusion on the meaning of the word replica. I entertained both definitions in my posts.

Like you said, the topic has been derailed and I’d like to end the conversation here. No more name-calling, okay?

sigh

rep·li·ca

noun
noun: replica; plural noun: replicas

an exact copy or model of something, especially one on a smaller scale.
“a replica of the Empire State Building”
synonyms: copy, carbon copy, model, duplicate, reproduction, replication;

Palador.2170:

I’m pretty sure that Revenants will be able to use mainhand sword, as well. We’ve seen Rytlock using one, and if we’re learning from him, it would make no sense for us to not know how to use one ourselves.

Also, there are few weapons more iconic and fitting to referencing legends than the sword.

we’ve also seen a revenant in a livestream running around with a sword and doing that misty slash :P

this thread shows up every other day.

no one knows, but GW1 did give character slots, so it’s not impossible.

Basaltface.2786:

ZaidDyan.3057:

If they go for fixed legend skill sets then I think this class is going to appeal to beginners and really good players and will probably be less compelling for those in the middle.

Beginners might feel the class is easier to learn and might be less afraid of selecting “the wrong build”. It’ll have the easy learning curve of the warrior, but more variety in playstyle.

On the other hand, intermediate players may prefer the greater customisations possible with other classes. Which is great, because you want new players to start with the shiny but then learn about the other great classes.

But I think this class will be most highly regarded by the more advanced players who love FPS-like positional mechanics and the energy balance/timing mechanics. I bet the difference between a skilled player and an intermediate player will be massive with the Revenant. Perhaps more so than any other class (maybe on par with engi?).

…engi can choose his kits and swap em whenever he feels like it, he also can carry up to 4 at the same time, no cooldowns and nothing at changing them or he can use no kits at all. Also engi got access to the toolbelt what gives kits basically a 6th skill that can be used regardless if the engi got the kit equipped or not. Even without kits engi can slot his utilities however he wants and still got basically a 2nd (static and depending on the slotted skills) skillset thx to the toolbelt. To call the rev on par with engi (if he really cant change his skills) is insulting and i really REALLY hope they dont lock the skills down.. cause then this class is gonna be the most boring thing ever in an mmo.

edit: Also rev cant change his weapon in combat…so yea if his class mechanic basically is made of 2 “static” skillset kits…then this is gonna suck

he’s talking about the skill gap between new players and veterans, not the options.

Knighthonor.4061:

coglin.1867:

Seems to me taunt is something like a reverse fear. Seems folks need to drop old connotations they have with the term from other MMOs.

It’s not a reverse fear, or whatever that is.

Enemies can still use a skill. Also it changes the foe’s target.
Read below——-
Taunt will be used to both reposition foes and change your foes’ targets

fear: target runs away from caster, max length 3 seconds. can be avoided with stun breaks, stability and defiant stacks

taunt: target runs towards caster, and if target reaches caster, starts autoattacking (which is different from deliberately using any skill you want, or picking skills at random). max length 3 seconds. can be avoided with stun breaks, stability, and defiant stacks.

it’s fear, but instead of running away, you run towards the guy that inflicted it.

that’s what i’d love to see, but i’m not sure it’s going to be what we will actually see. illusion-less mesmer… one day.

Sagat.3285:

Merus.9475:

I think I’m falling in the camp that would prefer there to be at least some choice in the utility skills. It probably doesn’t need to be much – each legend would only need 4-5 skills – but locking it to 3 is going to force what’s seen as the ‘best’ revenant build, and takes away one of the key fun parts of building characters in GW2: working out which of the 4 or 5 utility skills that work with your build you have to drop.

6 max if they do it that way.If each legend is focus around a specific playstyle would that mean all utilities would be condi based,heal based and you would compensate with the other legend? I’m still thinking kick from war,that bundle trait from thief and many others…

I don’t get people with best build, requirements will create it’s own meta not you, personal build sure but are healing thief or tank mesmer viable on any level? Not skills only affect your spec.We need that demo or at least a proper skill showcase should have been made.

you’re missing the point.

even if there is a meta build, choices allow you to step out of it a bit. for example, there are two viable thief heals in the D/P meta build, and what stunbreak you bring is up to you. you can even bring two stunbreaks (shadowstep and the signet are the most popular options). some people like to bring roll for initiative instead of shadowstep. some people like to use shadow trap. and so on.

but most importantly, having options is what allows the meta to evolve organically, without requiring the devs to release patch notes. someone tries something new that beats the old meta, then someone builds something that counters that new build, and so on.

choice is important because otherwise the game becomes stale, like a fighting game with 4 characters.

Knighthonor.4061:

Xenon.4537:

Honestly all I see is a bunch of emotional wishes based on feelings of becoming a wolf or bear, or even a tree. No solid ideas on mechanics besides Kaiyanwan’s which I already responded to. There’s no reason for Anet to reskin the Elementalist and call it a Druid. That would be the most disappointing way to go about it. I’m all for adding a shapeshifting Druid, but it should be unique somehow.

And just because you think there will be 3-4 specs a year from now is no excuse not to at least try to make a profession mechanic interesting instead of copy/paste.

Only class that uses shape shifting in any major way is Necro.

People keep talking about Norns, but Norns are a race not a class.

people keep talking about norns because norns are the ones that have animal shapeshifting as their main thing. they’re not oversized humans, they’re werebears.

it would be like releasing a profession that uses the human gods as a mechanic (hai dervish).

Knighthonor.4061:

A OK.8276:

Shanks.2907:

I feel bad for when all these trinity supporters realize it’s nothing like what they want. lol

I lol’d when I first read this topic. I can’t believe (1) people actually want a trinity (2) think this is a trinity mechanic! hahaha

Yeah if that makes you feel better…

The PvE is changing so that players now need to focus on controlling mobs now and not just ignoring them and stacking like before.

PvE has a new role now. Slow also makes attacks easier to defend. Again control is a major role in HoT PvE unlike in vanilla.

having to CC mobs (which is already a thing, contrary to popular belief) isn’t turning this into a trinity thing. what the people you quoted are saying is that taunt won’t turn GW2 into a trinity game, it’s just another CC option for players.

it’s not like you’ll have a profession built as a swiss army knife of CC and they’ll have taunt on top of everything they already have. GW2 has a very limited skill bar for that reason. i wouldn’t worry about them adding another type of CC, since to use it, you’ll have to give up on something else (another CC, your damage option, you name it).

Basaltface.2786:

Nike.2631:

Your seeing the images just fine… but you haven’t kept up on what the class designer has been telling us in the other thread .

well if they lock that stuff down… then this class is gonna get really boring really fast…oh boy.. lets hope they dont kitten that up cause it looks so darn tasty like it is right now

they haven’t decided yet if they’ll stick to it though. the popular alternatives we brought to him are either generic class skills that aren’t tied to any legend (my personal pick), or just giving each legend a pool of 4-6 skills to choose from. now if he got the chance to read it yet or not, we don’t know, since he probably went back to working/heading home/etc :P

GiraffeRampage.6420:

An undead greatsword that has a demons soul trapped in it

i read that and my head instantly went

Soul of the mind, key to life’s ether…

Xenon.4537:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Xenon.4537:

The way they describe taunt it sounds like inverse fear. It’s not going to reset the aggro of a mob per se. It will probably last no more than 3-5 seconds with max condi duration and the mob can immediately turn it’s attention on another player once its over. Not to mention defiant will put a hindrance on it.

Threads like this are just a knee jerk reaction I suppose it so be expected.

it’s a stun, not a condition. Roy confirmed on twitter that it’s basically a backwards fear, so the duration would be 3s tops, and since it’s a stun, you can break it with stun breaks, or outright ignore it if you have stability (or if you’re a champion mob with defiant stacks)

Fear is both a stun and a condition. Additionally, Fear is affected by condi duration, not stun duration. It’s basically a condition that can be stunbroken. There’s no reason to assume Taunt is just a stun until proven otherwise. I was just speculating based on what I read. And I never said you couldn’t stunbreak it. I basically said exactly what you “corrected” me saying lol. Taunt sounds like the same exact thing as fear, including it being a condition, including it being stunbreakable. The only difference is which direction your avatar runs.

read the blog. they file taunt under “status effect”, whereas slow is filed under “condition”. i’m pretty sure that settles that taunt won’t qualify as a condition.

Uriel.6310:

As I read what the revenant will be about, I got excited, but slowly I begun to get jealous as I notice that they are so much better than the one class that I wish was decent which is the necromancer. They seem to do everything a necromancer could ever wish to do. Better resource management for their toggle, better way to handle conditions, better forms that are meaningful, close range weapons that are RANGED, and plus more. Maybe I am just jumping ship early, but if necro doesnt at least get some of these nice toys that helps it I’ll definitely be deleting my necro for the revenant as my new main.

i’m not sure i get your problem? necros have only one melee option, everything else is ranged (including a commonly melee weapon), so why do you want more range options? necro is also the king of conditions in this game, with the best cleanses and the best condi potential. last but not least, the only thing i saw about revenant that sounded similar to necros was the condi part, where the attacks self-inflict conditions that periodically pulse to enemies without getting cleansed. necros can apply massive conditions on others without the self flagelation part (unless you count epidemic), they can turn boons into conditions, and they can grab the conditions on them and put them on an enemy (when they don’t outright eat the conditions and gain health from it).

Breckmoney.6387:

But running stability instead of another med is a big deal and your effectiveness is changing pretty dramatically by making that choice. Similarly, if legends aren’t balanced to be “this is the one with crazy DPS, this is the crazy tanky one with no DPS and this is the one that’s super mobile” then someone can run Jalis/whatever #1 instead of Jalis/whatever #2 if they want to make personal changes. The amount of change will be larger since you’re dealing with larger distinct blocks of abilities, but I’m not sure that means it’s noticeably less flexible than some other classes.

yes, you sacrifice one option (say, more DPS in the case of medi builds) in exchange for another (the safest heal in the game, stability so you’re not stunlocked, etc.). that’s the beauty of it.

let me put it this way. each profession right now has 4 heals, 3 elites, and what, 20 utilities? the actual number doesn’t matter, you’ll see why soon.

just taking utilities into account, you have (20 + 19 + 18) [the 3 utility slots] * 4 [the heal] * 3 [the elite] options.

meanwhile, the revenant has, assuming 5 legend options, 5 + 4 = 9 possible combinations.

as you can see, the number of possible options is far, far inferior in the revenant’s case (even if, yes, i’m counting non-viable builds on both sides).

for the record, that math has a very good chance of being grossly wrong (i haven’t played with statistics and discrete math in a looooooong time), but i’m pretty sure the actual numbers would give a similar depiction of the situation, so even if it’s wrong, the math serves its illustrative purpose.

Nike.2631:

Ferever.7014:

Serophous.9085:

Too many pages to go through but…isn’t slow already in the game, just called chilled?

Chill increases the cooldowns ,but slow will increase the time it takes to execute the skill.

I’m betting Slow exists because someone at a design meeting finally got tired of the fact Thieves ignore the resource effects of Chill…

Chill isn’t deadly for thieves like it is for eles, but making a thief walk super slowly is still pretty dangerous (and our oh-so-important utilities are affected by it).

I think slow is an idea they came up with when they realized that thematically speaking, having a time mage (you just know chronomancer mesmers are coming) that freezes people to simulate slowing them down is a bit silly :P

Torsailr.8456:

I wonder, if they have a large selection of legends to pick from, would that alleviate the customization concerns? There was no mention of how many legends there will be and having 5-6 legends would provide for a similar amount of options to what we currently have for traits in other classes. However, I think I’d prefer having 3-4 legends with a few selectable skills.

Honestly, even if they go for fixed skills, I’d bet we won’t get more than 6 (as in, that’s the most I could reasonably expect, but I’m not counting on it). Most professions have ~5 utility types (signets, shouts, traps, etc.), so it’s not unreasonable to expect the revenant to have a similar pool of skills, even if they’re stuck in bundles (“Jalis’ skills”, “Mallyx’s skills”, etc.).

It’s worth considering, though, most utility types have 4-5 different skills (not even counting heals and elites that have types, like venoms), and there are only 3 utilities slotted at a time. That could be an alternative way to give Revenants some wiggle room while still making all utilities bound to the selected legends, though I’d still rather see “unbound” utilities.

I GOT IT! (I’m way more excited about this than I should be)

I was thinking of how the revenants could be allowed choice on utilities without getting in the way of their main class mechanic, which is themed utility swapping.

It’s quite simple, really. They just need a small pool of generic skills to choose from (say, two utility types, one heal, and maybe one elite), unbound from their legends (did anyone say signets?). These skills would be slotted individually in each legend, so at the end of the day the Revenant would still have up to 10 utilities.

Of course, this comes with its own slew of balance considerations: energy costs would have to be considered as potential builds emerge (like a low-maintenance build that allows you to keep your energy levels constantly high while still using plenty of skills), or the generic options being so good people outright replace the whole set of utilities for them, for example.

The point would be that Legends still play a major role in the profession’s playstyle, while still allowing players some flexibility to add their own touch to builds.

On a side note, since we’re talking GW1 mechanics, signets in GW1 had no energy cost. That could be an interesting mechanic to play with.

PS: I understand that it might be too late to make such sweeping changes to the profession, but it seems like the dev team hasn’t decided yet on whether or not to go for fixed utilities, and there are bound to be a bunch of scrapped concept skills that can be somehow repurposed as “generic” skills.

Breckmoney.6387:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Breckmoney.6387:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Breckmoney.6387:

I like the idea of legend skills being locked, personally. Legends should in theory be iconic for some reason or another; it’d be weird to have some of Jalis mixed with some of Mallyx or whoever else is introduced. Asking ANet to make too many utilities per legend is probably just not reasonable from a design standpoint.

And I don’t even know if they’ll be less flexible in the end – in the two example legends today you can go from tanky and supportive to what I assume is a higher DPS condition class with just a legend swap. That’s more than many classes can say. What they might be is hard to gear around and maybe people will just run celestial to be decent at everything.

The problem is that theorycrafting and buildmaking is severely stripped down if all you can really choose are the legends. I honestly don’t know how they would adapt the current system to allow for more in-build flexibility (i.e. adding your personal touch or variation to a typical build), but I hope they can find a solution, or else revenant will get really stagnant really fast.

They still have traits and the Revenant’s specialization to play with some of that. Worst case I think they end up being perhaps less flexible overall but maybe much more flexible in any given encounter since they can change so much of how the class works on the fly. Not sure which is better but both have high points.

traits are modifiers, not whole new skills. traits are meant to complement your main choice (i.e. weapons and utilities). unless those traits wildly affect the playstyle of a legend to the point it’s hardly recognizable, they won’t be enough.

and you have to keep in mind that you’ll probably want to pick two complementary legends, not suddenly going from DPS to support, as the revenant playstyle will be much more centered on swapping legends frequently (not as frequently as an ele swaps, but the push and pull of energy with swapping legends giving you a fresh energy bar are still there), and you don’t want to be bursting a guy down, run out of energy, and then swap to some support dude or AA the guy to hell. similarly, you don’t want to be a sitting duck once your support skills are done, because you have the DPS of a wet noodle.

Is this really much different than other classes, though? If you’re running an “optimal” meta build it’s usually one utility at most that can really be switched out, and even that usually comes back to traits. If I’m running med on my guard my utility, heal and elite are basically set in stone. Even if I’m going for more of a WvW-style build it’ll probably be one skill at most that I change out.

I’m not saying they’ll be the most flexible class, but I don’t think they’ll be that much different than a decent few already in the game.

that’s the thing, though. you can change your heals, elite, and utilities. most people will run the prebaked variation, but some people might want to use the other heals (i like using the meditation heal on my medi guard, but shelter is still an extremely strong option for any builds), or swap a utility (replace one of your meditations with a stability source, or maybe wall of reflection or sanctuary), and so on.

there is no “personal touch” to revenant skills. every single hammer jalis build will look and play exactly the same. there’s no “let me use shadow trap instead of infiltrator signet”, no “do i go for withdraw or hide in shadows”, no “triple signet or do i bring lightning reflexes, and if so, which signet do i sacrifice”, etc. no element of surprise, no room for the meta to evolve without balance changes.

more like too little options.

right now, they haven’t decided if you’ll be able to pick utilities for legends or not, but they’re leaning on “nope”. that, together with the “no weapon swap” thing, would make revenant the most restrictive class in the whole game.

Caeledh.5437:

Thornwolf.9721:

If they go by what a druid is , they would have nature magic , the ability to heal themselves and others(( as literally thats in the real nature of druid lore. )) And the ability to speak and have packs of animals follow them, as well as the ability to transform into lycanthropes and other “Man-Beasts”. The Druids in guild wars really haven’t ever had a spotlight on them; So its safe to say that this stuff should be in their skill capabilities . Its not a “WoW” Thing , its just WoW uses real druid lore to base that class off of.

That’s definitely not safe to say.

Based on what little we do know about druids in GW2 lore, apart from being focused on nature, they don’t seem like any other druids I’ve seen.

GW2’s druids are … tree monsters. The developers have explicitly said player druids will have plant based based attacks. All current signs point to druids being more plant than animal focused – which rangers already are.

I’d bet heavily on GW2’s druids being relatively original and not a carbon copy of anything we’ve seen before.

they aren’t tree monsters. they became tree monsters (which is a one-way ritual, before anyone uses it as an argument for plagiarizing norn skills)

TurtleofPower.5641:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Professions do not have their own starting zones. A character’s starting zone is determined by the race that was selected.

Wait… what? You’re introducing new profs in an expansion and they’re just supposed to play old content to get to 80? Why can’t they have a fast track zone or something?

lolfasttracks.

you sound new to GW2.

VodCom.6924:

Pull > Taunt since you can resist taunt with the new boon they’ll introduce and you can use a stunbreak more easily to remove taunt.

umm… taunt isn’t a condition. you can prevent it with stability, but that new boon won’t do crap about it.

Sagat.3285:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Xenon.4537:

The way they describe taunt it sounds like inverse fear. It’s not going to reset the aggro of a mob per se. It will probably last no more than 3-5 seconds with max condi duration and the mob can immediately turn it’s attention on another player once its over. Not to mention defiant will put a hindrance on it.

Threads like this are just a knee jerk reaction I suppose it so be expected.

it’s a stun, not a condition. Roy confirmed on twitter that it’s basically a backwards fear, so the duration would be 3s tops, and since it’s a stun, you can break it with stun breaks, or outright ignore it if you have stability (or if you’re a champion mob with defiant stacks)

Oh man, Terror now causes Taunt to do damage,more damage if your foe is AAing, Necro Style:Retaliation!!!

i said basically, not literally :P can necros even retal?

Khenzy.9348:

The fact that Revenants are most likely going to be stuck with just melee or range is kind of a bummer, honestly. At least Elementalists can conjure ranged or melee weapons…

It would be cool if Revenants had a spammable or AA melee skill and a spammable or AA ranged skill within the same weapon skill set…

engis have a single melee option, and it takes a utility slot. think about that for a moment :P

Test.8734:

Nike.2631:

A trick he gets surprise people with once and even that only gives him a fixed set to tools. Some of which I’ll know he can’t use yet because of the way the energy mechanic resets to 50%.

You are assuming that there are skills that would require more than 50% of the skill bar.

why not? thief has weapon skills that cost up to 6 initiative from a pool of 12 (7 if you count underwater weapons, but lolunderwaterthief). and running short of energy while your other dude is on cooldown is bound to be a bad thing, so i doubt many revenants would burn their whole bar in a single attack right after swapping.

Breckmoney.6387:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Breckmoney.6387:

I like the idea of legend skills being locked, personally. Legends should in theory be iconic for some reason or another; it’d be weird to have some of Jalis mixed with some of Mallyx or whoever else is introduced. Asking ANet to make too many utilities per legend is probably just not reasonable from a design standpoint.

And I don’t even know if they’ll be less flexible in the end – in the two example legends today you can go from tanky and supportive to what I assume is a higher DPS condition class with just a legend swap. That’s more than many classes can say. What they might be is hard to gear around and maybe people will just run celestial to be decent at everything.

The problem is that theorycrafting and buildmaking is severely stripped down if all you can really choose are the legends. I honestly don’t know how they would adapt the current system to allow for more in-build flexibility (i.e. adding your personal touch or variation to a typical build), but I hope they can find a solution, or else revenant will get really stagnant really fast.

They still have traits and the Revenant’s specialization to play with some of that. Worst case I think they end up being perhaps less flexible overall but maybe much more flexible in any given encounter since they can change so much of how the class works on the fly. Not sure which is better but both have high points.

traits are modifiers, not whole new skills. traits are meant to complement your main choice (i.e. weapons and utilities). unless those traits wildly affect the playstyle of a legend to the point it’s hardly recognizable, they won’t be enough.

and you have to keep in mind that you’ll probably want to pick two complementary legends, not suddenly going from DPS to support, as the revenant playstyle will be much more centered on swapping legends frequently (not as frequently as an ele swaps, but the push and pull of energy with swapping legends giving you a fresh energy bar are still there), and you don’t want to be bursting a guy down, run out of energy, and then swap to some support dude or AA the guy to hell. similarly, you don’t want to be a sitting duck once your support skills are done, because you have the DPS of a wet noodle.

Test.8734:

Nike.2631:

Now I’m almost salivating at the prospect of running into a Revenant in PvP – one glance at his weapon (which they can’t swap) and at his buff bar to read which legend he’s invoking and I’ll know almost EVERYTHING about my opponent.

And then when he’s close he switches legend and pwnz you.

he’d still know everything about his opponent though. if you know the weapons and your enemy has a huge “THIS IS MY PLAYSTYLE” banner on their head, they become predictable.

Scientia.8924:

Will there ever be a situation where it’s better to Pull rather than to Taunt?

Reminds me of Daze vs. Stun (which one of those is better anyway?)

stun is better than daze, but daze is more easily obtained.

similarly, pull is safer than taunt (and faster, since you pull the enemy instead of wait for it to run towards you), because it won’t necessarily make the enemy hate you with a passion and attack you, but taunt can have situational uses (using alongside a counter skill, defiant stance, or AED, for example).

lol, good luck tanking with taunt. strip all those defiant stacks, distract a boss for 3 seconds, revert to old meta.

Xenon.4537:

The way they describe taunt it sounds like inverse fear. It’s not going to reset the aggro of a mob per se. It will probably last no more than 3-5 seconds with max condi duration and the mob can immediately turn it’s attention on another player once its over. Not to mention defiant will put a hindrance on it.

Threads like this are just a knee jerk reaction I suppose it so be expected.

it’s a stun, not a condition. Roy confirmed on twitter that it’s basically a backwards fear, so the duration would be 3s tops, and since it’s a stun, you can break it with stun breaks, or outright ignore it if you have stability (or if you’re a champion mob with defiant stacks)

Breckmoney.6387:

I like the idea of legend skills being locked, personally. Legends should in theory be iconic for some reason or another; it’d be weird to have some of Jalis mixed with some of Mallyx or whoever else is introduced. Asking ANet to make too many utilities per legend is probably just not reasonable from a design standpoint.

And I don’t even know if they’ll be less flexible in the end – in the two example legends today you can go from tanky and supportive to what I assume is a higher DPS condition class with just a legend swap. That’s more than many classes can say. What they might be is hard to gear around and maybe people will just run celestial to be decent at everything.

The problem is that theorycrafting and buildmaking is severely stripped down if all you can really choose are the legends. I honestly don’t know how they would adapt the current system to allow for more in-build flexibility (i.e. adding your personal touch or variation to a typical build), but I hope they can find a solution, or else revenant will get really stagnant really fast.

Nike.2631:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

There options really are the legends you bring which offer unique playstyles and skills, I can see your point though.

Thinking on this for a few minutes longer, IF the right-hand tray is a locked set of 5 skills the meta for this class is going to evolve to its terminal state very fast. There’s no theory crafting to be done when your right tray exists as a block decision. It doesn’t matter how many legends are available… 2-3 will be anointed by the groupthink as the must-play options and that’ll be that. I’m sure you can envision the LFG notes “ZRK. Revs n MBS ONLY” (MBS = Mighty Bob Stance) or some other ridiculous shorthand .

yeah, i can see it being a massive limiting issue for the profession if you pick a single weapon set, one or two legends (metagame doesn’t usually spark a ton of options), and that’s it. there won’t be an element of choice for the player to put a twist on their revenant build, forcing the profession in a rapidly devolving process of stagnation.

EDIT: looking at elementalists, they have been stuck on “cantrip meta” since the dawn of time, as every half decent build, regardless of trait spread, will have at least two of them. but there are alternatives: glyph of storms is situationally used in PvE, as is ice bow. the elite of choice is usually up to the player. you can add your own “twist” to the standard 0/2/0/6/6 build simply by playing around with utilities, something that revenants seemingly won’t have.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

snip

While you’re here, can i ask just one tiny question?

The hammer skill “Field of the Mists” sounds like a far stronger version of the Guardian’s Zealot’s Defense. Zealot’s Defense is a rather fast skill that roots you in place and destroys (not reflects) any projectiles that hit you from the considerably small area formed directly in front of you. As a result, it’s almost never used for its defensive purposes, rather being used as a slight DPS gain at melee range (the blades that fly off hardly ever hit anything further than melee reach). Meanwhile Field of the Mists has a far larger field and lets you walk around with it, even change directions (presumably) to face the enemy flanking you, on top of being a reflect and (seemingly) not stopping you from using other skills while it’s active.

Anyway, my question is, how do you balance the two skills so that one isn’t clearly better than the other? As it is, at least from where i’m standing, even if it had twice the cooldown, didn’t do any damage, and sucked from your energy pool, Field of the Mists is the clearly superior skill.

I guess my point is “maybe look into Zealot’s Defense and make it better at actually being a defensive skill”.

PS: i lied about it being a tiny question >.>

DiogoSilva.7089:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

There is a mix of recharge and energy/upkeep costs for the Revenant skills. Every skill doesn’t necessarily have recharge though.

Hey Roy, what made Anet go back to a traditional energy+cooldown system? Is it merely playing around GW1’s nostalgia, or do you recognize it as having its own merits as a balancing and high-risk/ high-reward tool?

I personally find it to be a really powerful balancing tool, and energy management also creates an interesting mini-game that remains exciting even in the easiest pve encounters, so I’m happy with it coming back.

well thieves already had to deal with resource management, though most non-thieves swear it’s actually just a free card to spam the same skill over and over.

ha, saw this thread coming a mile away.

taunt is just fear, but backwards. it’ll be 3 seconds at most, and all the defiant/stability/stunbreak stuff will still work on it.

GW2 isn’t fond of long disables, or of stunlocking the AI, you should know that.

Jaken.6801:

Yeah, which is quite a bummer.
I understand why they do it, though.

Oh If my memory serves me right there was some story tied to the professions. At least for Cantha, as you had some teachers that gave you quests, which were based on your profession.
In Nightfall it wasn`t that much. The most we got were with Prophecies of course, which is reflected in Ascalon Catacombs, with the ghosts of the teachers

each profession had a teacher, and you were free to take on classes of any professions (since GW1 had dual professions). all campaigns had that.

Tharomir.6985:

Since there are already nature based quests that allow you to shapeshift, I wouldn’t rule it out simply because it was done in other games. That seems like a silly reason, almost like an elitist attitude in an attempt to distance yourself above other games.

no, it’s more about respecting your own game’s lore. GW druids aren’t shapeshifters, norn are. shapeshifting is what norn do.

Jaken.6801:

BrunoBRS.5178:

why did a new thread have to be made? there are like 5 threads on it on the first page of the HoT forum alone, including threads with the exact same title.

yes, they are going to “look the other way”, because it would be stupid for the profession to dictate the story when story has NEVER been dictated by profession in the entire franchise.

it won’t break canon any more than playing prophecies on your dervish. just because you couldn’t play the profession up until this spot doesn’t mean it didn’t exist until now (see: all those necros with greatswords).

Objection!

Canonicaly, if I am not mistaken, each story is set after another.
That is why we can`t create a dervish or an Assassin in Prophecies. They are bound to their geographical and narrative location.

The ability to replay these missions are available to us, because of completionist and gamemechanics.

If we go by story, we ask for help from other nations, which is why our heroes from prophecies were able to help out in Cantha or Elona.
There are missions which open up the pathways to these continents.

So saying that professions were never tied to story is false, as they were at least part of the introduction and setting of Guild Wars.

Guild Wars also had a complete different apporach to the game itself. We were able to replay the past, similiar how season 2 works now.
Guild Wars 2 on the other hand never had the addition of a new class and was designed to be a evolving and ongoing game, with barely any replayability in the story department.
That has changed and now we have this weird mix.

That being said, them turning a blind eye to any kind of continuity is understandable, however for me it is not fine. Even more if Rytlock is supposed to be “something new”, or so.

So far (going from the blogpost) they had cool idea and created something very interesting. They wanted something really new and shiny. They just dropped the ball with the story part…

umm… that’s exactly my point.

you can only play a dervish if you start his or her story 3 years after prophecies. and yet, you can play prophecies with a dervish, and at no point in time do they acknowledge the time inconsistency.

also worth pointing out, the professions themselves weren’t tied to the story, but to the campaign. it wasn’t that assassins and ritualists had a special canthan early story, it’s that canthan characters (including the core professions) had a special canthan early story.

either way, this argument is pointless, because they already confirmed that there won’t be new story or starting zone or anything past mechanics for the revenant.

Belzebu.3912:

Looks like that only the utility skills consume the energy bar, so those won’t have cooldowns. There weapons won’t consume energy so we’ll have cooldowns there.

EDIT: Pretty much the opposite of thieve.

actually in a polygon article, it was confirmed weapon skills also consume energy.

also, not all utility skills are necessarily cooldown-free. i imagine the upkeep skills might be though.

Xukavi.4320:

Like what Bruno said, Revanants are pretty much heavy armored Ritualists that use avatars like Dervishes did from GW1

though it’s worth pointing that the dervish avatar connection is purely mechanical, as dervish avatars drew power from the gods themselves.

pdavis.8031:

Therapte: Would love to have you!!

for some reason i read this as “we would love to hate you!!” and it took me several seconds to realize my mistake. now i’m laughing at myself :P

you might want to read into the ritualist, as rits are essentially revenants, conceptually speaking. revenants are just more… hands-on with their approach to summoning spirits.

Iason Evan.3806:

I would imagine the personal story will have a little different timeline to it as well or a “flashback”.

no it won’t. and the sooner you stop thinking that, the less disappointed you’ll be when you finally get to play HoT.

jesus, guys, you have freaking DEV CONFIRMATION that this kitten won’t happen and you keep insisting. the denial here is worse than the polearm thread (which ALSO got dev confirmation isn’t happening)… then again, i’m seeing some recurring faces…