Can’t watch the video right now. Care to sum up what you trying to say in the video?
Because the Support,Control,Damage trinity really doesn’t exist because damage is not equal in role to control and support.
it’s a summary of how control and support are very much key roles in the dungeon meta, but people see “you’re expected to do at least one of those roles and damage at the same time” and think “NOPE, DPS IS ALL THERE IS TO GW2”.
it basically says that just because you’re not fully specced into support, doesn’t mean it’s not there (the meta dungeon builds in fact aren’t the optimal DPS builds), same with control.
he also provides a ton of examples of support and control coming into play in organized groups to speed up the dungeon clearing process, so that people don’t say it’s all talk and no show.
in other words, it’s not a DPS meta, it’s a hybrid meta. everyone has to do everything for the best outcome, which is actually the original idea behind the GW2 combat. “no one is stuck to a dedicated role, the whole team shares all 3 cores of combat”
Curious, are you going to build a whole new system from scratch, or are you going to adapt an existing system like d20 or GURPS? ’cause the former would take, obviously, a lot more effort and game design knowledge (as someone who wrote my own RPG system years ago, i can tell it takes a crap ton of effort).
We are looking to create our own from scratch. Pulling various bits and ideas from other systems along the way. Yes, it’s a big project, but I believe with the right people, we can do it, and do it well.
I would just like to try to use the lore forums to recruit writers, and lore masters for this. (Plus it helps to keep it from getting moved and off topic.) Thanks!!
hmm… well, just remember that guild wars is a really, really combat-oriented game, and tabletops don’t survive on combat alone, so you’ll have to take some liberties with the systems to keep the game engaging, rather than just adapt GW1 combat to a turn based format.
I find it hilarious that in one of the interviews, Colin said “we avoided the term GvG because there are two distinct GvG communities in GW2, that play very different games that they both call GvG, and they hate each other”
Pardon my ignorance, as someone who does not PvP much, but what are the two communities of GvG?
there are the GW1 GvG veterans, that want a game mode similar to what we’re getting with stronghold. they seem pretty happy with it, generally speaking. then there are the GW2 WvW players that formed their own “GvG”, which is an unofficial game mode where two guild pick 15 or so people and just go TDM on each other until one side is wiped. those guys are sour that “15v15 TDM” (or as they say, GvG, since it’s always within guildies) didn’t become an official mode.
i personally don’t get the point of the latter group, because they hate the limitations of sPvP (read: you can’t bring ascended stuff, mix and match stats, and use consumable buffs), and ANet already went out of their way to give them a big, large, flat arena for guilds to clash like they wanted (LoS and terrain advantage are also a no-no in the new GvG community, apparently), so i’m not sure i get what they want.
I too am a GW1 player as well as participated in the surveys they used to create GW2 as well.
In wvw you can only play against your opposing teams for that week, you do not get to play against any guild you wish, and you can have people randomly attack that are not even involved ( anyone can jump in). It would be like saying for pvp you only get to play against this preselected group of players and cannot choose who you fight, and anyone else can randomly come in and snipe you if they feel like it. What they want for GVG is a private area where they can fight any guild in the game regardless of server, and people cannot come in and screw it up. Yea leaderboards and such would be nice, but giving them the basics first would be a start. They do not even have that currently.
ALSO GvG in wvw interferes with the actual game in progress. It is like they are trying to have a gvg in the middle of the court during basketball game going on. How about we only allow people to pvp in the middle of SMC while other teams are fighting over it? That just doesn’t work… You have people playing two different games on the same field.
i’ll give you “fighting more than guilds from the opposing servers”, but ANet gave GvGers the arena on the obsidian sanctum specifically to keep them from inflating numbers in the maps that actually matter.
I definitely see the OPs point as I saw it in GW1 with both the Assassin and Dervish. These classes (especially Assassin) received huge negativity by the community as a whole because of their beginning. Everybody and their brother made one and most REALLY sucked at playing them. This caused the community as a whole to think they were a poor class. Then when people learned to use them, they still had to deal with this stigma for a long time. It took quite a bit of time before the community started accepting them into groups again and realizing that the class was pretty good if played correctly.
I just hope that we don’t see the same with Revenant in that most will play them, and play horribly. Then for months and months after they have a reputation of being bad, even though that reputation is not justified (all classes are bad if played badly).
the hilarious part is that both sin and derv are really, really strong :P
Yep, that was exactly my point. They were thought to be horrible (especially Assassin) at first because players didn’t know how to play them and most didn’t want to learn. So they would run in like a warrior and just die. That gave them a terrible reputation and it took a long time before groups would accept them.
Eventually most people learned that a well played Assassin was a very strong ally to have in your group.
it’s like GW1’s version of bearbows giving ranger a bad rep :P
I find it hilarious that in one of the interviews, Colin said “we avoided the term GvG because there are two distinct GvG communities in GW2, that play very different games that they both call GvG, and they hate each other”
Pardon my ignorance, as someone who does not PvP much, but what are the two communities of GvG?
there are the GW1 GvG veterans, that want a game mode similar to what we’re getting with stronghold. they seem pretty happy with it, generally speaking. then there are the GW2 WvW players that formed their own “GvG”, which is an unofficial game mode where two guild pick 15 or so people and just go TDM on each other until one side is wiped. those guys are sour that “15v15 TDM” (or as they say, GvG, since it’s always within guildies) didn’t become an official mode.
i personally don’t get the point of the latter group, because they hate the limitations of sPvP (read: you can’t bring ascended stuff, mix and match stats, and use consumable buffs), and ANet already went out of their way to give them a big, large, flat arena for guilds to clash like they wanted (LoS and terrain advantage are also a no-no in the new GvG community, apparently), so i’m not sure i get what they want.
i hid the twitch chat and focused on noticing interesting things, like enemy names, and the fact that they have a festival on the dev client called “celebrate the year of the ram”.
also, that warrior had an F2 skill that was locked and hiding behind its F1 sibling for some reason.
and i’m not sure if we have all those booster icons in game (red MF booster for example).
thanks, but i was hardly the only one that spotted it :P
I definitely see the OPs point as I saw it in GW1 with both the Assassin and Dervish. These classes (especially Assassin) received huge negativity by the community as a whole because of their beginning. Everybody and their brother made one and most REALLY sucked at playing them. This caused the community as a whole to think they were a poor class. Then when people learned to use them, they still had to deal with this stigma for a long time. It took quite a bit of time before the community started accepting them into groups again and realizing that the class was pretty good if played correctly.
I just hope that we don’t see the same with Revenant in that most will play them, and play horribly. Then for months and months after they have a reputation of being bad, even though that reputation is not justified (all classes are bad if played badly).
the hilarious part is that both sin and derv are really, really strong :P
honestly, i think it looks awesome. any focus skin that isn’t a stupid horseshoe shape is a win in my book. still waiting/hoping for the focus that looks kinda like a small shield. this came very close to it.
So SAB? That is specifically why I got it, that and because my focus user was Asura.
kinda. i wish it would cover the arm though, like a brace.
right now i’m using the mistforged hero’s focus. still not what i want, but at least it’s a cool focus skin that goes well with my wind catcher.
honestly, i think it looks awesome. any focus skin that isn’t a stupid horseshoe shape is a win in my book. still waiting/hoping for the focus that looks kinda like a small shield. this came very close to it.
I find it hilarious that in one of the interviews, Colin said “we avoided the term GvG because there are two distinct GvG communities in GW2, that play very different games that they both call GvG, and they hate each other”
Curious, are you going to build a whole new system from scratch, or are you going to adapt an existing system like d20 or GURPS? ’cause the former would take, obviously, a lot more effort and game design knowledge (as someone who wrote my own RPG system years ago, i can tell it takes a crap ton of effort).
well of the two continents, elona is the one with the best shot of reappearing, but going by how ANet wants to focus on “quality over quantity” in terms of maps, i don’t know how they’ll fit whole new continents in.
i’d like to remind the overly enthusiastic fans that ANet, just like you, have weekends off. they are real people with families and friends, and they too like to spend at least a day or two off of work, as much as they love their job.
and really, we had new stuff saturday, whether you liked or not.
The weapon is the same weapon Eir uses, so how can there possibly be more than one?
It’s not the same weapon. Eir’s bow is in her hands.
If Eir’s bow was crafted via some legendary or unique method, then a copy wouldn’t make sense. But it’s just a bow and as such can be replicated. Caladbolg is a piece of the Pale Tree. The Pale Tree doesn’t go around handing out Caladbolgs all willy-nilly.
it’s not the real Caladbolg. Caladbolg is in Trahearne’s hands.
^ mordremoth only dislocates his troops further, they aren’t corrupted on the fly all the way in ascalon.
and when i was talking about distance, i meant how the corrupted sylvari seem just fine until they get too close to the source. we’ve seen it several times by now.
If the mastery system makes exploration like a Metroidvania game, I will preorder it.
Even if it did become like that, You’ll be able to play it only once!
Personally I’m all for making the Mastery system Character-bound instead of account-bound, and THEN design in a Metroidvania style.
well the idea is that it’ll be a neverending metroidvania, with new tools and stuff being added with time.
just keep in mind, people, that most of these will probably be quite simple. yeah, we got gliding, but most of them are probably more in the vein of “yeah now you can fight this monster that was virtually immune to you” or “hey you can open this door now”.
the unlocking method is also far more freeform than in metroidvania games.
they said they would redesign old maps in one way or another, i think the ones who would own HoT would be able to reach things you can only get to with gliders, including on old maps.
umm, no they didn’t? they said the would have to (not that they will) redo the old maps in order to fit gliders in them without making them exploitable.
If the mastery system makes exploration like a Metroidvania game, I will preorder it.
that’s what they’ve been hinting at. they’ve explicitly referenced zelda and metroid, and “coming to a stop because of a challenge you can’t complete, and later on returning with the tool you need, like a key to a lock”.
We’re going to get hanggliding which itself is not airplane flying…so you will lose hight all the time which can be seen as a destroyer for the endurance idea. It would be ilogical (atleast for me) to have endurance ontop of havint to lose hight at all times while gliding.
it’s not about being logical, it’s about being like Wind Waker
When you train the Gliding Mastery, however, you’ll have the option to soar freely through the treetops, escape the dangers that await you on the jungle floor, use the air to your advantage in combat against certain foes, and save yourself from accidental death by slipping.
Anyway, this is the same thing as AION has, you can only use it in certain locations and for only a certain amount of time depending on your training. I was disappointed when I read that it would only be available for HoT and that it was the same thing as AION did.
Anyway, for 2 years of work, this better be one hell of a nice zone and not just a living story update with feature pack.
yeah, that’s not saying you’ll fight in the air, just that you can take off to the skies to have an advantage (like the players running from the roly poly dino in the trailer)
Someone hasn’t paid close attention to some of the announcement, articles and/or interviews. There will be combat involved in some gliding, that was already stated. The more you increase your Mastery in gliding, the longer you can stay in the air, increase it another level and you can use updrafts…people don’t seem to be able read and comprehend to much anymore. There needs to be a drawback to gliding, and the endurance meter, just like the one we have for dodging, is it.
please link where you saw that there will be airborn combat.
“using updrafts” isn’t an attack, it’s gaining height. staying longer in the air allows you to travel further, not fight more.
given how little actual information – and compressed, too, instead its like dropping 1ml vodka into 1 litre of apple juice, oh god nobody mix it like that…
there is no reason to watch the vids.
i think gw2 has made a deal with twitch, and so, profits come, i guess.
why else the vids are so long and … blah blah blah?
if it’s pointless to watch the vids and waste my time on them, then i’m just ignoring it and waiting for actualy expansion, i mean i will see everything ANYWAY without watching vids, because information comes quicker trough playing the game, btw, why are there vids? oh yeah company profit.
sorry.
that’s the most ridiculous accusation i’ve seen in a long time.
Gliding should have been a cool thing to be able to do from vistas and in towns. They could have had it without an “endurance meter” if you unlocked it once you got to the top of the new maps in HoT and had the top of the map been the end of the line for the maps. Then you could glide around to your heart’s content because you beat all of the gating sans gliding.
ANet aren’t fans of systems that trivialize and allow you to bypass content, which is why they don’t implement mounts in GW2.
flying around to your heart’s content would trivialize the whole map, because then you’d just fly over everything that happened.
There are two things happening here. 1) People didn’t pay attention to/didn’t know about what was outlined to be discussed at this POI and 2) People don’t care about point one.
You can still go look at the news announcement on the front page. It says “Heart of Thorns gameplay” – so how can you say people who expected to actually see some gameplay didn’t know what was going to happen?
The announcement has been made already. It’s time for the devs to stop treating any information on HoT like the nuclear launch codes. I love hearing about funny things that happen during the design and design philosophy and that stuff after I actually know what the design is and can make some guesses on the impact.
psst… maybe you should’ve clicked that link.
“They’ll venture into the Maguuma Jungle to show you one of the adventures we heard about earlier this week. Plus, they’ll discuss how some of the systems work.”
also, please tell me how what we’ve seen friday isn’t gameplay.
i explained the reason in another thread, but here we go:
gliding is purely traversal. you go from A to B with it. there’s no “airborne exploration”. the gliding bar is likely designed to give you the length to cross the areas you’re meant to cross, and that’s it.
underwater, however, involves exploration, combat, and other tasks. you don’t go underwater to go from A to B, you go underwater to do stuff there. therefore, a bar that limits your time there hinders the experience.
If Trahearne dies, I hope we can atleast loot his sword Saladbowl Caladbolg.
if caladbolg isn’t the new legendary GS, i’ll be disappointed.
Please keep some weapons unique. If it plays an important and unique overarching role in lore, I think it should be kept that way. If “everyone” starts running around with Caladbolg copies, it really undermines its presence in the storyline.
(P.S. I’m ok with having Belinda’s GS, Braham’s armor etc. available in the gem store. Those items doesn’t play a central role in the story, at least not in the same way. Caladbolg is more of a character of its own. When I think about it though – strangely enough – Magdaer and Sohotin feels really legendary to me in spite of all the copies in gw1. :S)
the hundreds of players running around with fire dragon swords doesn’t bother you, but if caladbolg is copied, it’ll bother you?
The Fiery Dragon Swords are a lore-explained “Ascalonian made copies” of Sohothin/Magdaer, rather than the unique weapons themselves.
So why would it bother?
It’d be like everyone running around with the Scepter of Orr in GW1.
But in the end, does it matter? I mean, we have lightsabers.
we have hundreds of people running around with “the flameseeker prophecies”.
why can’t the legendaries get the same cop-out excuse as the FDS?
If Trahearne dies, I hope we can atleast loot his sword Saladbowl Caladbolg.
if caladbolg isn’t the new legendary GS, i’ll be disappointed.
Please keep some weapons unique. If it plays an important and unique overarching role in lore, I think it should be kept that way. If “everyone” starts running around with Caladbolg copies, it really undermines its presence in the storyline.
(P.S. I’m ok with having Belinda’s GS, Braham’s armor etc. available in the gem store. Those items doesn’t play a central role in the story, at least not in the same way. Caladbolg is more of a character of its own. When I think about it though – strangely enough – Magdaer and Sohotin feels really legendary to me in spite of all the copies in gw1. :S)
the hundreds of players running around with fire dragon swords doesn’t bother you, but if caladbolg is copied, it’ll bother you?
Soooo,…. am I the only one who liked the stream?
Am I the only one who apreciates the open attitude of the developers and the constant updates so shortly after the expansion anouncement.
I personally find half the posts in this thread far more insulting than anything said in the twitch chatbox that evening.
Learn to have some patience people, more information will come soon.
And great job on the livestream, Big fan of PoI format
nah, but complaints always sound louder than praise, especially on the internet.
i personally enjoy getting these little tidbits, and then trying to deconstruct whatever else we get that isn’t directly mentioned (like the warrior F2 skill, among other things).
Lore masterys first most definitely (although i will at least start the hang gliding one so i can give that a go. the sooner i can get to the point where i unlock those collections, the sooner i can start working on them. next one to master after that will be precursor crafting, same reason
I will first master the willpower to ignore this expansion. All I see is content gating and gear score in the guise of “mastery”. I’m not telling you what to do, but I’ll be steering clear of this.
what do you expect, its a paid expansion of course its going to be gated. if i were you i wouldnt go making sweeping statements about how you’re going to steer clear whether you are trolling or not because i suspect if you like this game at all you will end up getting it and have to eat your words.
I used to love this game but they continue to make choices and changes that go away from their original “foundations” and away from what made the original Guild Wars so much better than other MMOs out there.
If ArenaNet want’s to turn GW2 into just another grindy, gated MMO then I will be finding something else to play. Even if it’s only Black Desert Online, at least the character creation will keep me busy for a long time.
It’s funny how Anet said they’re not going to turn GW2 into another gear treadmill MMO, then introduces masteries and then it turns out masteries are exactly the same as WoW’s gear treadmill, except instead of grinding for gear to access new content you’re grinding for mastery points to access new content.
Look, don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining, I never had an issue with the gear treadmill in WoW, but I do find it incredibly ironic how Anet keeps saying GW2 will be different but then it turns out it’s not that different at all.
people need to stop using the word “grind” as synonym for “doing stuff”. by design, it’s IMPOSSIBLE to grind for mastery points, because those points are only given once per task. you can’t keep repeating that task to get more points.
you’re not grinding for mastery points, you’re playing the game to earn something. and it’s a guaranteed reward too, not “chance to earn a point, do again if you didn’t get one”.
“Healing isn’t Fun.” Whatever Dev said this, is entitled to his opinion, but one has to realize its still an opinion. I played GW1 From Factions to GW2 for one reason; Protection Monk was challenging and fun.
It required you be grounded in the action to work correctly as it was entirely preventative (save for Zealous Benediction everything in Prot required had a requirement that needed to be met). However, what completely ruined the playstyle was the rise of Speed Running and HeroWay. So to be frank, the very mindset the game takes upon itself with the “We’ll not have the Trinity” is destructive to the play style I, and many GW1 Veterens ENJOYED.
I want a dedicated healing role, call it nostalgia, but I want my Monk back baby.
i’m sorry to say, but one of the first things the devs did when working on GW2 was “let’s get rid of the monk. no one likes having to rely on a monk to succeed, no one likes having to wait for a monk on the LFG to go do stuff”.
so if you liked protection monk, your best bet is roll a support guardian and stack them boons on your allies.
I can do this with any class however the same mentality that wrecked my playstyle in the first game is already present here. “Why aren’t you playing berserker-geared character? You bring nothing to the table. You are not coming with me to X content, goodbye @*[=}€~!.”
don’t shoot the messenger, i’m just paraphrasing the devs.
and it’s not like there aren’t hundreds of games with healer roles out there (GW1 included)
It is very likely that we will focus Norn when we go for Jormag, Asura when we go for Primordus, Human when we go for Bubbles/Steve and Charr when we go for Kralkatorrik.
Which I think is a huge mistake. It’s going to be really boring if each expansion focuses primarily on a single race and isn’t able to meaningfully advance multiple racial storyline. What the charr aren’t going to do anything meaningful because Jormag comes first?
It’s also very difficult/risky to pull off an expansion in a single environment. I don’t doubt ArenaNet will work kitten making the Heart of Maguuma aesthetically diverse and interesting, but there are only so many flavours of jungle they can pull off. After a while players are going to crave a desert, the beach, snowy mountains, a forest or the plains. We have so many diverse environments with the core game, an entire expansion that likely only focuses on one environment could get old really fast.
Repeating that with a Jormag expansion and snow/ice seems like such a waste. I think they will be able to pull it off for a single expansion, but in the future I think players are going to be well and truly sick of single environment expansions and will be craving something bigger. It will be interesting to see what happens with this fewer maps but greater gameplay density design they are going with. Personally I’m concerned.
As far as focusing on the sylvari now, well I don’t know what they have in the pipeline for Jormag, Kralkatorrik, Primordius, the charr homelands, Cantha or Elona, but I suspect the sylvari story had to take place sooner rather than later, especially once they committed with Scarlet. I do think it’s interesting many players got sick of sylvari back when Scarlet was running around, I feel for them now that we get what is essentially a sylvari expansion. This story will define the role of an entire race in the world for every story to come. They had to tell it soon.
the race (or races, in jormag’s case. kodan!) that was most affected will get the spotlight, but that doesn’t mean other races won’t get any attention. i mean, the mordremoth arc so far had a lot of non-sylvari stories. matter of fact, there was quite a big focus on human lore, new and old.
Well people expected to actually see something special.
Masteries
Specializations
Revenant
Guild Halls
New pvp mode
New zone (as in, actually showing it, not just standing in one place the entire time).
Just something.. anything.
I can understand the disappointment.
it’s rather silly of them to expect the show to talk about something that hasn’t been blogged about before, because that hasn’t been their MO for the past year. they talk about things after they’re unveiled. and right now we only had masteries, adventures and outposts.
“They’ll venture into the Maguuma Jungle to show you one of the adventures we heard about earlier this week. Plus, they’ll discuss how some of the systems work.”
they showed an adventure, and described (with visual aid) how outposts will work like, in quite a bit of detail actually.
people really need to stop blaming the devs every time they can’t contain their own hype and start imagining things will happen.
it’s no different than being able to swap from a power weapon to a condi weapon, or an engineer that can bring condi kits and a rifle. just build intelligently.
If they follow the model used for the Mawdrey backpiece (which I think was a proof of concept thing) Then you’d be able to make as many as you have characters, because each character can complete the collection.
But, that collection was tied to the living story chapters, so they may have changed how they measure completion.
it’ll be through collections, which are account-wide achievements. it’s been confirmed. each precursor will have one collection (which you unlock through masteries), so you can only “craft” one of each precursor per account.
“Healing isn’t Fun.” Whatever Dev said this, is entitled to his opinion, but one has to realize its still an opinion. I played GW1 From Factions to GW2 for one reason; Protection Monk was challenging and fun.
It required you be grounded in the action to work correctly as it was entirely preventative (save for Zealous Benediction everything in Prot required had a requirement that needed to be met). However, what completely ruined the playstyle was the rise of Speed Running and HeroWay. So to be frank, the very mindset the game takes upon itself with the “We’ll not have the Trinity” is destructive to the play style I, and many GW1 Veterens ENJOYED.
I want a dedicated healing role, call it nostalgia, but I want my Monk back baby.
i’m sorry to say, but one of the first things the devs did when working on GW2 was “let’s get rid of the monk. no one likes having to rely on a monk to succeed, no one likes having to wait for a monk on the LFG to go do stuff”.
so if you liked protection monk, your best bet is roll a support guardian and stack them boons on your allies.
