So apparently revenants existed before Zhaitan died but simultaneously only came into being after he was killed, huh?
Sounds like Rytlock accidentally knocked over a bowl of wibbily wobbly, timey wimey stuff. That’ll be a pain to clean up.
or, you know, they were around, you just couldn’t play them.
it’s like saying norn and asura didn’t exist in tyria until eye of the north. just because it wasn’t there for you to see doesn’t mean it didn’t exist.
and for the hundreth time, “time traveling” in order to let players play stuff that happened before the campaign they started on is nothing new to the franchise (see: starting on nightfall and heading back to prophecies), and there was never nearly as much whining then as there is now.
How does any existing class learn to use weapons and skills? There are no trainers or mentors in this story. You just pick up weapons and use them. You get skill points from tons of random crap to unlock new abilities.
There’s very little in the way of a lore explanation of how we learn to be Warriors or Mesmers or Engineers, so I don’t see why anybody would expect anything different for Revenant.
Warriors and Mesmers have tons of GW1 lore and the GW2 is just a natural progression of those classes. Engineers are based on the progress in mechanical design so there isn’t a need for an explanation there.
But a Revenant stands apart from those classes because it is something new for Tyria, What did Rytlock encounter that changed him fundamentally like that? Plus Colin made a specific statement calling Rytlock the FIRST Revenant. Being called the first means that there was nothing before you, so to keep the timeline intact the devs would have to explain how the other Revenants came to be because it is something brand new for the game, and made to be important because an Iconic has switched classes to become one.
Anet wrote themselves into this corner, If they didn’t make a big deal of Rytlock becoming the first Revenant then i wouldn’t be pushing so hard for a lore answer, I could have accepted the idea that Revenants existed in the fight against Zaitan but weren’t recognized as such.
“A living conduit to the Spirit world, the Ritualist spawns powerful Spirit allies that inflict harm on foes, and can channel restorative magic that heals and protects injured companions. "
“The Ritualists are one of the oldest known professions on Tyria.”
“Before magic, the Ritualists relied upon a power similar to magic, granted to them by their powerful ancestors whom maintained a connection to their descendants. Through their spirits, the Ritualists were able to practice magic, or something close to it.”
aiming a shadowstep through a gap isn’t going to happen. faking a shadowstep from a fixed spot to another fixed spot (like kasmeer does) could work though.
that said, i doubt any masteries will have “profession flavor”, because it would have to be fairly similar for all 9 (like a reskin of the same ability).
Well, if we get that kind of thing, that’s probably how it will work.
Like, you have a mastery the lets you cross certain gaps, and the actual effect depends on the profession you are playing at the time, something like
Mesmer: Portal
Thief: Shadowstep
Ele: Rock/Ice Bridge
Necro: Bone Bridge
Engineer: Rocket-propelled jump
Guardian: Bridge of Light
Warrior: Grappling Hook
Ranger: Carried by a large bird/Vine Bridge (if Druid)
Revanant: something appropriate
If you make the location profession-specific, then you’d probably make the effect something that anyone can use or take advantage of (i.e. Warrior leaves the hook in place for the next x seconds/users, Thief shadowsteps anyone within a certain range ala Caithe in episode 7, etc)
but there’s a difference between a teleport (scripted or not) and spawning a bridge you can walk over. one generates a physical object, the other doesn’t. either everyone has a teleport analogue, or everyone has a bridge-like thing (which would be pretty silly for most professions)
May I ask why?
I mean, sure, there could be a possible exploit or clear advantage of using one method over the other, but that does not necessarily preclude never letting anyone ever use a skill like that. I mean, there are skills (Warrior’s Sword 2 and Engineer’s Rocket Boots and Rifle 5 come to mind) that can be used to make long range/percision jumps that are definitely beyond what is normally possible, but they’re still in the game (probably because their not beta RtL level of broken)
Ultimately, it’s up to Anet and the amount of time/resources they are willing to spend to make it work to their level of satisfaction. If nothing else, I would love nothing more than, during PS/LS missions from now on, that the next time an NPC of my profession goes “Let me (do something that my character can’t normally do)” I get the option of saying “No, let me do it.” …and actually do it.
a teleport only allows one player through. a bridge is a mesh that allows players other than the caster through, unless other people can’t see the bridge, in which case you’d see a player “flyhacking” around when they’re actually walking on top of an invisible bridge that only he can use.
aiming a shadowstep through a gap isn’t going to happen. faking a shadowstep from a fixed spot to another fixed spot (like kasmeer does) could work though.
that said, i doubt any masteries will have “profession flavor”, because it would have to be fairly similar for all 9 (like a reskin of the same ability).
Well, if we get that kind of thing, that’s probably how it will work.
Like, you have a mastery the lets you cross certain gaps, and the actual effect depends on the profession you are playing at the time, something like
Mesmer: Portal
Thief: Shadowstep
Ele: Rock/Ice Bridge
Necro: Bone Bridge
Engineer: Rocket-propelled jump
Guardian: Bridge of Light
Warrior: Grappling Hook
Ranger: Carried by a large bird/Vine Bridge (if Druid)
Revanant: something appropriate
If you make the location profession-specific, then you’d probably make the effect something that anyone can use or take advantage of (i.e. Warrior leaves the hook in place for the next x seconds/users, Thief shadowsteps anyone within a certain range ala Caithe in episode 7, etc)
but there’s a difference between a teleport (scripted or not) and spawning a bridge you can walk over. one generates a physical object, the other doesn’t. either everyone has a teleport analogue, or everyone has a bridge-like thing (which would be pretty silly for most professions)
aiming a shadowstep through a gap isn’t going to happen. faking a shadowstep from a fixed spot to another fixed spot (like kasmeer does) could work though.
that said, i doubt any masteries will have “profession flavor”, because it would have to be fairly similar for all 9 (like a reskin of the same ability).
i don’t know why i keep reading these posts with convoluted ways to add a story to the revenant’s introduction. you guys will be so disappointed.
even after a dev outright tells you that their experience will be the same as any other profession, you keep thinking of ridiculous extra fluff that is completely unecessary. professions have always been a mechanical thing in the story.
why did a new thread have to be made? there are like 5 threads on it on the first page of the HoT forum alone, including threads with the exact same title.
yes, they are going to “look the other way”, because it would be stupid for the profession to dictate the story when story has NEVER been dictated by profession in the entire franchise.
it won’t break canon any more than playing prophecies on your dervish. just because you couldn’t play the profession up until this spot doesn’t mean it didn’t exist until now (see: all those necros with greatswords).
Professions do not have their own starting zones. A character’s starting zone is determined by the race that was selected.
Thank you for finally bringing some clarity on this subject. I am however very disappointed in this decision as it completely wrecks lore continuity, I had hoped the devs had an interesting way to introduce a new class without breaking story. It makes no sense for a Revenant to do the same story steps that all other classes did as that class didn’t exist till Rytlock came back from the mist.
Really dropped the ball on this Anet, really wish you took a page out of the Blizzard playbook here because even though GW2 claims to be a Living World WoW handles their lore and story progression better.
He didn’t say they would have the personal story. He just said they would start in their race’s normal starting area
For all we know, the personal story is not part of the expansion since the expansion does start after Zhaitan is killed and Rytlock comes back from the mists.
they didn’t want to add a race because “all it amounts to is a few chapters of personal story, 3 underpowered skills, and now some players look like birds/bears/whatever”. what makes you think they’d bother doing it to a single profession?
not to ruin the reference, but what about omnomberries?
Because, unless they change it, those seem to be only native to Orr, the land of unfriendly smells.
but omnomberry juice is such a popular brew, it can’t possibly be limited to orr! looks up it’s also on EB, and as of recently, you can grow your patch in your home instance.
So you think my assertion that only the Pale Tree can create an exact Caladbolg is false? Do you have any evidence at all to back it up? My “stubbornness” is because I believe that I am correct and I am standing my ground.
Saying that nothing in this “world of magic” is impossible means that we shouldn’t even be having lore discussions or holding ANet accountable for mistakes. There have to be limitations for any respectable story/universe.
this thread is already packed with examples and explanations of why it would be possible, you just keep repeating yourself in an honestly quite childish way. i can’t tell if you’re honestly misunderstanding everything we’ve said or if you’re so hellbent on the idea that you refuse to read properly what was said to you, but really, when this many people are reasoning against you, maybe it’s time to revise your argument and see if you aren’t the one in the wrong.
also, whatever skins the player use are not canonical. you can walk around with seraph issued armor without ever serving, and even recolor the uniform to your heart’s content; you can carry the physical embodiment of the flameseeker prophecies and use it as a shield, and so can your friends. your “just came out of divinity’s reach for the first time in my life” human can wield twilight and orrian armor, with transmutation stones that they didn’t work for, and magical skins from a wardrobe they’ve never seen. every single player in the game is “THE COMMANDER AND FOUNDER OF THE PACT”.
we suspend enough disbelief that people walking around with a pretty plant sword is the least of ANet’s worries.
However, because the race tightly relates to the essence of human due to the Pale Tree’s influences from Ronan, the overall form has a human silhouette. But if you look more closely, you’ll see the forms are really quite alien. They are a collection of abstract notions the Pale Tree had about what made up the human, as she really only saw the surface. They are a tree’s interpretation of humans.
doesn’t explain how a sylvari from a whole other tree looks like something i can do on character creation (not that anyone ever picks that face option, it’s ugly as sin)
This means that a big chunk of the gold it takes a legendary will be removed and the prices will be affected because of this.
I’m sure the items for the collection that provides precursor will likely fill in that huge gap of gold that is removed from your standard precursor obtaining.
people really need to understand that the precursor collection won’t be an easier or cheaper way to make a legendary, it’ll just be a definitive way that doesn’t involve buying off the TP.
But for Lore purposes Rytlock is the first Revenant, meaning he is the first to enter the mist and return completely changed by it.
no he’s not. he’s just the first example of Revenant as a profession we’ve seen in GW2. rytlock isn’t the first of anything in lore, and the sooner people stop treating this like a retcon comparable to erasing the gods from canon, the better.
i’m just glad Roy came up and put an end to this ridiculous discussion. the people blowing it out of proportion and whining about how it “completely ruins continuity” will probably shut up about a week after release, which means we’ll have to endure them a while longer, but at least they can’t insist that revenant will be a special snowflake that works different from all the other professions.
i can already imagine how some of you would react to GW1, starting a character in nightfall, beating EotN, and then playing prophecies for the first time after that, with a dervish.
i can’t believe this argument is still going on, and i can’t believe koviko is so stubborn about how impossible in a world of magic to have a glowy wooden sword.
The whole idea of GW2 is that the game begins at level 80.
the game doesn’t “begin at 80”. that’s a horrible misconception that causes a lot of people to miss the point of GW2 and as a result can’t enjoy the game.
Have none of you realized that the PS NEVER mentions what your class is, so there is NO lore issue with you being in the full existing PS story as a Revenant (beyond the Rytlock is the first one issue).
Other than the fact that the personal story is set more or less the year before the death of zhaitan (culminating in his death of course), S1 is set in the year after zhaitans death, and S2 two years after it. Presumably HoT takes place 2-3 years after the events of the personal story, so you know the kinda the timeline lore is out of sync.
except it’s not.
you guys keep reading “rytlock is the first revenant” as “the first revenant in the lore”, when they mean “the first revenant you’ve seen in-game”.
the revenant’s powers have been in lore for several centuries. it not being an option until now for players doesn’t make it non-existent.
The whole idea of GW2 is that the game begins at level 80.
that’s literally the opposite of what GW2 is about. other MMOs “begin” at max level, and GW2 went firmly against that notion, which kittened off a lot of early players that rushed through content and found out there’s nothing exclusive to lv80s to do.
The entire point of the epxnaison is to give content for people AFTER level 80. That’s what they have been saying in all the interviews. The point of the expansion is to give players the chance to progress their character even after reaching the level cap. So what Argon is saying is totally accurate.
“the point of the expansion is to provide more for the level 80 characters” – yes.
“the point of the game is that it only starts at lv80, leveling is just filler to learn the ropes” – no.
Well If I buy expansion I will probably get every legendary in game, because there wont be RNG involved… But after that crafting I wont get any because of rng…
well another reason to fork over some bucks to get it then hm?
Anyways… i sat down yesterday and was playing a bit arround with z brush while watching tv…something like this would be kittening amazing (imo)
According to this lore. Druids actually shed their mortal forms to become something more akin to treants. So some sort of shape-shifting wouldn’t be to far fetched.
if you want to give up on your mortal coil to become an oakheart for eternity, sure.
gah, this thread again. revenant isn’t a special child, it won’t get any exclusive story, because profession never determined the story. and if you think that breaks continuity, boo hoo, because it will.
The whole idea of GW2 is that the game begins at level 80.
that’s literally the opposite of what GW2 is about. other MMOs “begin” at max level, and GW2 went firmly against that notion, which kittened off a lot of early players that rushed through content and found out there’s nothing exclusive to lv80s to do.
I do feel the PoIs could present a bit more meaty info. ESO Live is a good example of giving solid looks at upcoming features and gameplay,
see, i think that’s the problem. people don’t “get” what PoI is about. it’s not an informative show, it’s a community show. it shows community projects and some behind-the-scenes stuff of already-released projects (usually living story chapters). since there are no LS chapters in the near future, but lots of expansion talk, the show’s been repurposed to give a more visual demonstration of the already published blog posts. there won’t be any extra info in them, you’ll just get to see what was talked about (and nothing more) in-game, with dev commentary over it.
I wonder how much the new legendaries will sell for on the auction house. The current ones are already very expensive, so the new ones would be for some mindbending figure, most likely.
initially, yeah, but it will normalize with time as supply increases.
…what’s wrong with the bifrost? ._. it’s the physical embodiment of the norse rainbow bridge that connects the worlds. also not sure what’s wrong with frenzy? maybe you just have a problem with colors?
The model for bifrost itself is amazingly boring. Don’t care much about the rainbow itself, but the model just plain needs to be fancier. And frenzy is just plain ugly. I feel people just have bad taste.
i agree that the bifrost could use a cooler model, but the rainbow is the awesome part about it. and i like frenzy’s fish aura.
either way, my point is he put those two in the same category as “shortbow that fires unicorns” and “disco ball mace”, when they’re clearly not intended to be “joke weapons”.
First off, for every “party” or “silly” legendary, I want a serious one. That means a serious staff, mace, pistol, speargun, shortbow, and focus.
In all honesty, I’d love Caladbolg as the greatsword, Scepter of Orr for staff, and Magdaer for sword. But at the same time, I don’t want plot-focus legendaries equipped by players left and right. So…
I’d love to see legendaries that are nods to GW1 (of course, special effects must be added):
Honestly, legendary or not, I’d love to see those skins and many others make a return.
And add some lore for the new and old legendaries. Hopefully the collections will parttake in that, but here’s hoping anyways.
…what’s wrong with the bifrost? ._. it’s the physical embodiment of the norse rainbow bridge that connects the worlds. also not sure what’s wrong with frenzy? maybe you just have a problem with colors?
Elemental Sword from GW1!
Legendary or not doesn’t really matter, some MF recipe with Molten/Glacial Lodestones would be fine, too. I just want to have it in GW2 q.q
I would want another long bow who stay on the trend of Kudzu: floral, woods, sylvary. Of course with a different design, but with the same trend.
That would be the only legendary that i would make.
eh, much as i love kudzu, we don’t need two legendaries with the same theme on the same weapon type. variety is the spice of life.
we already have 3 datamined blindfolds, so they’ll probably be the options.
also, “see no evil hear no evil speak no evil” is about turning a blind eye (ba-dum tsh) on bad things, whereas the revenant seems to be more a case of “true sight” (going by rits and the awfully common trope of blind people being practically demigods that didn’t need eyes anyway)
The reason everyone expects shapeshifting when they hear “Druid” is because of the “Kleenex Effect” otherwise known as a brand name takeover. It happens when the brand name of a product becomes the colloquial term for a particular type of product. Kleenex is a brand name of tissue paper. But people often just call it Kleenex even if it’s some other brand of tissue paper.
Similarly when there’s a shapeshifter class, people call it the Druid because the D&D and WoW druid pretty much defined the colloquial term. Now you cant even say “druid” without people immediately jumping to shapeshifting. It would be cool to have a shapeshifting druid, but the GW2 druid is more like the pre-D&D/WoW/D2 druid. It’s more like the legends of mystical Celtic clerics.
I have a more pragmatic concern for this topic that will probably throw a major wrench in the works… How would a shapeshifter class fit into the design of GW2 mechanically? We already have engineers who can swap kits around to change their 1-5 skills and dramatically alter their combat behavior on the fly. We already have elementalists swapping attunements which change their 1-5 skills to provide a wide array of different rolls and abilities. How does a shapeshifter distinguish themselves from this? Forget for a moment your superficial wishes of becoming a furry creature. Think about this mechanically. What is the point of it in the context of GW2?
is it weird that i never associate druids with shapeshifting? even though i played plenty of diablo 2 as a kid, i always thought the shapeshifting stuff wasn’t particularly druidish of the guy, while animal companions and plant-based magic made more sense to me.
will you be offended if i say that didn’t help? >.> the way she pronounces makes it sound like there are like a bunch of extra D’s and R’s in there >.>
point is, i don’t think i’d put the effort to read and figure out how to say it if i saw that in game :P if it was a guildie or a friend i’d probably call them “pen” or “draeth”, probably butchering the welsh in the process :P
.