Guild Wars 2

petespri.6548:

BurrTheKing.8571:

petespri.6548:

With this new trait, blocking reflects, then you will no longer be able to gain might as reflect does not count as a block.

They will need to fix this if they leave paired up like this.

Actually, unless I’m mistaken that’s not the case. I’ve used the Might on Block trait with the Reflect before and have stacked a healthy amount of might, especially from Rangers who don’t know how to cancel their Rapid Fire.

No, and it doesn’t proc runes of the guardian or defender either.

Unless they have changed it since I last checked.

I just checked and you’re right. I’m almost certain it wasn’t always like that so they must have broken it at some point. I remember having both traits on before and getting a good amount of might from it.

nicknamenick.2437:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I would rather have the damage on dodge for blind clear

Hey Burr, can you explain this?

Because this trait only removes blinds when you dodge into melee range so it miss the dodge-attack on someone, only then it removes blind..

So it doesnt work if you dodge back (away from someone) the dodge-attack still triggers ofc.. but because you dont hit something (so you dont miss also)

So in the end its just faster to Auto attack for removing a blind compared to a dodge (wasting a dodge.. and the radius is so small that most of the time it doesnt removes the blind also)

I find this trait kinda meh.. if only they could increase the range a little bit..

Reckless dodge can allow you to be hit by the blind from something like Blackpowder applied by a D/P Teef AND avoid their burst. Count to 2 (they get stealthed for 3 but sometimes they go early so 2 is safer I find) after the Heartseeker and dodge backwards. You generally cleanse the blind and put yourself in a good counterattack position if you’re using Mace or Hammer. Atm I can’t afford to put any points in strength so besides the UF placement the changes are nice.

Other uses would be dodging at a Mediguard right at the start to break their Aegis or one of their Shield charges. It lets you make your defensive action an offensive one as well. One problem you can run into on Skullcracker is making sure you have enough damage when you aren’t using your main combo. The Forceful GS merge will help on this as well.

The uses might seem limited but when I run Greatbow they can be super helpful vs other zerkers. The radius is also 180 which is 50 units larger than melee and I think it’s a AoE rather than directional.

I used to use the same trait loadout as you Yamsandjams.3267. I think the only reason we even used the Arms line was for UF and Forceful GS. The other minor traits are generally less useful since they’re bleed focus. They best you can hope for is that you randomly proc a bleed early into the combo to get that extra dmg. Even then I would rather have the damage on dodge for blind clear and the damage bonus when Endurance isn’t full because I’m more in control of that than hoping I get enough bleed to make the trait worth using.

My current version actually prioritizes sustain over damage. Although, I found that with Furious Reaction and Pack Runes you really don’t lose that much damage. I’m thinking of maybe dropping DotE for 1 more point in arms which with Fury means the main combo still has over 90% crit chance but with way more sustain. That being said vs Eles and Guards DotE can be super useful.

Back on topic, you’re right that Arms is clearly more condi focused and I think there’s more viability in Skullcracker than any sort of build that either focuses entirely on CC like Mace/Hammer or some crazy Hammer + Sword hybrid. No matter what happens someone’s build is gonna die, but for a brief time Skullcracker was really strong and I think with UF replacing Building Momentum it could be again. Heck, Strength is the line with Physical Training so there’s way more synergy there because many Hammer or Mace builds also bring at least 1 Physical skill, especially since it’s sadly no longer possible to just dip into Tactics for Leg Specialist.

You’re right though that it might be too strong at 50% as a minor trait, but in Arm it’s going to see very little use.

petespri.6548:

With this new trait, blocking reflects, then you will no longer be able to gain might as reflect does not count as a block.

They will need to fix this if they leave paired up like this.

Actually, unless I’m mistaken that’s not the case. I’ve used the Might on Block trait with the Reflect before and have stacked a healthy amount of might, especially from Rangers who don’t know how to cancel their Rapid Fire.

Penguin.7906:

I’m not going to say I agree with everything Burr says here, but the fact still remain that Unsuspecting Foe has no synergy with any of the traits in the Arms traitline. You will never take Arms over Strenght unless you are making a sword bleed build, and as such, Unsuspecting Foe has no relevence.

The real problem might be that the whole Arms trailine is kinda bad compared to strenght, but oh well.

That’s my main point. Arms is clearly the Sword focused line (yes, there’s the potential for other combos but in general it’s sword) and I really enjoy running sword builds, but that means I’m going to have a minor trait that is almost worthless. I guess it’ll mean that Shield Bash + Final Thrust is likely to crit…but with the Sword trait and the other traits your default crit chance is high as it is so…why bother? That being said a hybrid Sword build looks really cool with Deep Strike – Blade master – Furious.

UF’s current placement hurts at least 2 builds and probably more.

Scoobaniec.9561:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Skullcracker builds needs that trait to work, but ideally you would go Strength/Defense/Discipline with physical skills so that you can focus on interrupts and that iconic Skull Crack + 100b combo which doesn’t hit that hard without UF.

Yeah i perfectly know where you coming from. Just because you want to suit everything to your playstyle and pack everything into one line so you can have high dps+surv in one package doesnt it wont hurt other possible builds. Make a choice between str, def and disci line. Its up to you what you going to lose. Maybe make dogger march as minor as well so you can use shield mastery too in this gimmick skulljoke build? Wont happen.

And lack of synergy? Olny in master line (and that if you wont pick up tactic line olny, i forgot to mention). Berserker fury+furious are a huge buff to my mace/shield+hammer build as i been spending too much time gaining adrenaline. These 2 traits fixing any issues i had with it. By moving unsu foe to str line you breaking my build. Not olny that but what will happen when hb will finally get a rework? Useless trait. Ty for attention.

Mace/Hammer builds are and always will be one trick pony builds. Both have short range and only 1 way to close gaps. Also, the second someone throws on Stability you’re basically useless for the duration. Also, even on that build there’s more synergy to be had in the Strength line (Body Blow/Distracting Strikes) and there’s no way you’ll be any good with 66006 because condis would eat you alive and you lose a ton of sustain.

I don’t see Mace/Hammer becoming viable even with the changes as they currently are. Focusing so kitten CC is asking to be hardcountered.

It’s not about “getting it all” it’s about “being useful in any way.”

The one reason to take Mace over hammer is the extra sustain it brings. your role would be to set up spikes on high value targets. Having to make any tradeoffs means that the current Skullcracker DPS will either remain the same as it is now or become weaker.

Taking 6/6/0/0/6 would be terrible because you lose Sundering Mace AND Shield Master which are the key points of the build. If you go 0/6/6/0/6 you lose All the nice new physical skills and Distracting Strikes which have a ton of synergy with the set. 6/0/6/0/6 is the optimal setup no matter how you look at it.

Also, as Doon said Arms is basically tailor made for Sword and in some cases Axe/Mace or Axe/Axe builds. Those sets have little to no use for the trait.

I still disagree. I don’t see anyone attempting to do with a condi Mace/Hammer build. There’s just not enough cover condis that deal damage that make it worth the effort. Also, I have never been able to make a Mace/Hammer build that did not run into major issues with kiting or anyone with stability. At least with Skullcracker with Hydro on the GS you have ways to deal damage and use 100b when they have stability up.

Also, the trait IS pretty mandatory for Skullcracker. I’ve tried running with other traits but the DPS is always lower on the main combo as opposed to using UF. Not only that, the new Sundering Mace also synergizes well with it. Other than that 1 trait though, there’s not much reason to invest in Arms. Strength and its access to Distracting Strikes is much more appealing.

While I understand the mentality, the other 2 minors deal with bleed, yet UF deals with stuns? Most of the time minors agree with each other thematically.

An ideal and viable Skullcracker would play out like this:

• You have been interrupting your foe and blocking, gaining might and applying Confusion.

• Your Skull Crack interrupts your target and gives you more Might.

• You swap to GS and start using 100b.

• Due to UF every hit crits, as a result Forceful GS gives you more might and Sundering Mace applies Vulnerability.

Without UF, the whole thing deals much less damage. There’s no room to go into Arms for the trait.

Pin Down is one of the most nerfed skills out there. It now has a very obvious animation. To make up for that it’s only fair that the skill be effective when it hits. My only issue with Pin Down is that certain Zerker builds I play on other classes lack good removal, but that’s not Pin Down’s fault.

There’s a ray of light though. With Mending becoming a Physical skill and Healing Signet getting a small passive heal nerf their healing amount will probably be roughly similar when you take Mending with Physical Training. We also don’t know what effect having higher Endurance will have on Mending, I’m guessing either more condis removed or higher healing. Both are good.

Mending on Physical Warriors will allow them to forgo Cleansing Ire and focus on more offensive lines if we’re lucky. Adrenaline gain might me an issue but we’ll see.

While part of me is saddened by the loss of choice, we never really had much choice in builds in the first place. There was a ton of really mediocre builds but only a handful of truly viable builds.

With all stats being placed on hopefully well balanced ammys and Specs being limited to 3 lines per build we will get more MEANINGFUL choices that are also easier to balance. Depending on what role you want to fill, there’s going to be an obvious choice with a bit of wiggle room for personal taste.

Personally, I think I prefer this approach. If something after this update is OP or UP, the reason why will probably be instantly apparent and fixing it will hopefully not dramatically change another build (remember how many balanced War builds were destroyed while attempting to balance Hambow).

@BigCountry.6490 I think each stat line was buffed by 6.5% unless I’m mistaken whch means the overall buff was much bigger. The new version will be better than the old version but weaker than now.

I don’t have anything against Celestial being a Jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none, but right now it’s the Master-of-all if your build has access to easy power/condi/healing and there’s very few reasons to run anything else. Why run Static Discharge Engi when Cele Rifle exists?

Scoobaniec.9561:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Now if we could get Unsuspecting Foe in the Strength Minor line where it belongs.

Why? It was always in arms and thats where it belongs – in crit line. Arms is not olny for condi as some people trying to imply. With these changes arms has high potential to become a bunker hunter line as well – signet mastery, opportunist, burst precision.

The only weapons that can take advantage of the trait reliably are Mace and Hammer, and you rarely see it used with Hammer. With the changes to how Specs work you wouldn’t want to use the Arms line with either weapon, there just isn’t enough synergy. The only use for it in Arms I can think of is Shield Bash into Final Thrust, whoopdido.

I’ve never liked the positioning of UF but now there’s REALLY no reason for it to be there. It should take the place of the basically worthless Building Momentum (it gives a pathetic amount of Endurance atm) because at least there’s some synergy to be had then. The Arms minor should deal with bleeds like the other 2 or another condition.

Skullcracker builds needs that trait to work, but ideally you would go Strength/Defense/Discipline with physical skills so that you can focus on interrupts and that iconic Skull Crack + 100b combo which doesn’t hit that hard without UF.

The new Shield Master trait clearly caters specifically to Mace/Shield users. If you take Sundering Mace you’ll have a build that has a short CD block that reflects and gives you might. Now if we could have Counterblow not end when it blocks attacks like the Mes GS1 or certain Ele abilities. Idk if that’s intended or an oversight but imo a weapon that’s super focus on defense should be reliable.

Now if we could get Unsuspecting Foe in the Strength Minor line where it belongs.

BlackTruth.6813:

You do realize that you can only have 3 specializations / trait lines right?

It’s either Strength Arms Defense OR Strength Defense Discipline. Arms Defense Discipline is probably okay but I’m not going to pick that over STR DEF DISC.

You lose fast hands over unsuspecting foe, it will make your rotations awkward.

Did you not read the post above yours at all? I said that it was an issue. It just needs to be brought up often enough so that they consider changing it. UF doesn’t fix in the new Arms Spec anyways since the other minors in that line are bleed focused.

I think you may be overlooking the change to Mending. With it becoming a physical skill which means when traited it has lower CD so condis may not be such a huge issue especially with Brawler’s Recovery becoming a Master trait. Healing Signet is also getting Resistance so there’s even more access to anti-condi.

I’ll agree to Fast Hands, it should just be a part of the Warrior class. I’m on the fence with Warrior’s Sprint. It’s annoying to not have it be you can still more fast without it. It’s also very strong after the merger with Mobile Strikes.

So, I wanna start by saying that the majority of Warrior changes look promising. Many changes almost seem designed around buffing Skullcracker (Mace/Shield + GS) which I love.

That being said, Unsuspecting Foe being a minor in Arms doesn’t jive with the other proposed changes. For Skullcracker you’ll want to be Speced in Strength, Defense, and Discipline. Most Arms traits don’t work with a Mace build. You need Defense for the Mace trait and the Shield trait, you need Discipline for Fast Hands and probably Brawler’s Recovery, and you want Strength because it has all the interrupt based traits and that’s a big deal for a weapon set that has 3 of them (+Physical skills potentially). There’s just no room for going into arms.

I would suggest either merging Unsuspecting Foe with Building Momentum or you could just delete BM because as it is the trait is super weak. In addition, UF does not have any synergy with the other Arms traits that are bleed based.

I’m looking forward to having my favorite build be better for more than just 1v1 but without that extra crit chance it may be way weaker than it should be.

OK, so after looking over all of the traits I’m cautiously optimistic about the future of Skullcracker.

You would be specing into Strength, Defense, and Discipline. I see a few different options in terms of trait choice. One is focusing on pure DPS and might stacking and one is more hybrid.

Strength: Physical Training – Body Blow/Forceful GS – Distracting Strikes

Defense: Shield Master – Any trait depending on focus – Sundering Mace

Discipline: Warrior’s Sprint – Brawler’s Recovery – Either Burst Mastery or Heightened Focus (only if the new quickness applies to a 100b that has already been activated)

HOWEVER, and this is HUGE, the placement of Unsuspecting Foe isn’t good.

It’s cool that it become a minor trait, but it being in the Arms tree is counterintuitive for a Mace build. Most of the other traits in Arms to not benefit Mace in any significant way. Arms is more of the Sword line.

My solution would be to either merge Unsuspecting Foe with Building Momentum. Building Momentum is so weak atm I don’t think many would care if it disappeared entirely. The Arms Spec could use a trait that actually synergizes with the other minors.

One potential strength of the trait is that there doesn’t appear to be a ICD on the Weakness you apply when hitting someone below 25%. That means that once you get them to that point they will hit like a wet noodle for the rest of the fight.

There’s also synergy to be had with Body Blow. Basically if you have a Mace you can have absurdly high Weakness uptime. With Sundering Mace that means that when they are Weakened you will be doing 15% more damage with Mace overall.

Is this worth using Cleansing Ire and in Skullcracker’s case Forceful GS? That remains to be seen.

Renn.8241:

No “Fast Healer”, Mes and Necro stole the res speed trait

…doesn’t really affect Skullcracker in any way. It might also be baseline now.

Er-mah-gurd!

I feel like some of these changes were almost designed around making Skullcracker viable!

Mending being a Physical skill means that we will hopefully be less beholden to the evil Cleansing Ire.

Unsuspecting Foe a MINOR trait?! Please leave the % as is :P.

Every Shield/blocking trait as one? Yes please!

Might on Distracting Strikes might be interesting. Even without being speced into condi dmg with all of your blocking giving might the Confusion will probably still deal decent dmg. It’ll hopefully give the build much needed damage between Skull Crack +100b combos.

Factor that into Sundering Mace applying Vuln after stunning that will probably make the main combo hit even harder.

The major potential pitfall is Adrenaline gain, but we’ll see. There was other stuff I was hyper about too but it went by so fast so I’ve gotta wait Dulfy uploads everything.

Rezzet.3614:

people using gs wrong

even if your main weapon is gs 100b isnt your only high damage skill the bust skill is the real kicker 100b is more of an execute skill on immobilized targets

gs F1 hits for 50% more damage on targets under 50% hp and also grands fury

But not having ways to use 100b reliably means you may have a skill that has almost no practical use. In my opinion that’s just unacceptable. Every skill on my bar should have a use. That’s why traits like leg spec or skills like Bull’s Charge are important.

Honestly, I respectfully think this is like putting a bandaid on the problem.

I’m ok with this being one part of the change, but it would be better if they made Turret gameplay more active.

For example, make Deployable Turrets reduce the CD of turrets when they are picked up. Maybe even have the CD be lower the closer to “death” the turret is when picked up.

This would make Fortified Turrets more attractive. If you get good at timing the pick up you’ll be able to get the shield from Fortified Turrets more often. This would hopefully encourage more active turret play rather than just outright nerfing it.

BlackTruth.6813:

Even DPS Double EP Frenzy Warrior is better and more viable than that now because Frenzy stomps and actual cleave.

Just saying, make plays if you wanna make certain things work. DPS Warrior with Axe + Hammer or Mace MH + Axe MH has a higher skill cap. Hambow? Not so much.

It’s also great if you like dying horribly to any competent Engi/Necro. Conditions would eat you alive. Especially since your builds hardly ever bring Balanced Stance/Dolyak. Use a weak CC to trigger Last Stand, Necro corrupts and chain fears or Engi used Gear Shield to outlast the duration or uses nades to bait out Zerker Stance THEN Shields and uses Slick shoes once Last Stand ends and they laugh as they make nades rain all over you.

I’m hoping that it will be a GW1 like system where we’ll be able to spend adrenaline on utility skills. I’m guessing we’re getting a F2 skill that is either some sort of “mode” maybe like Death Shroud.

If so, it would be cool to see more types of energy management for the class.

So long as Shoutbow stay strong Warriors will have a place in this meta. It’s hard to argue with how much condi removal, healing, boon support, and might stacking it has to offer. Hell, after the might stacking gets going the damage suddenly becomes high as well. You’ll know a “good” Shoutbow by how often they land their Final Thrust.

If Celestial gets nerfed everything is going to be up in the air. Shoutbow would still probably be decent even on Valk or Soldier ammy. Hambow will still be solid, and let’s not forget that a S/S + LB Warrior with Krait runes is still very strong especially if paired up with a condi necro. I fought a team like this and even with a Shoutbow and a D/D Ele our removal couldn’t keep up with the condi application.

War needs some reverts to old nerfs and some bug fixes, but I think it’s going to at least stay relevant for now.

The damage reduction does need to be reverted. I guess the mentality was that the new Arcing Slice might add too much DPS but let’s face it the skill is better than it was but far from amazing.

I am actually fine with the functionality of 100b, it’s a skill that hits hard but requires a setup. With a bow and Bull’s Charge you have enough setups for the skill to be useful. Take Leg Spec and Hydromancy and land Bladetrail after swapping and you can land most of it. With a Hammer you can use Earthshaker or Backbreaker as a setup (there’s also Mace but atm it just feels too weak).

I will say that I wouldn’t complain if the full channel time was reduced to 3 seconds.

I answered, I had a class like this and I know how annoying it is to not get responses.

I would maybe fix up some of the punctuation if possible (adding Capitals and periods in some places) and also try posting this to the GW2 subreddit.

Derren.8724’s first build is a good choice. Only I would forgo the might stacking for Runes of the Pack and something like Hydromancy or Leeching instead of Battle. Since you don’t have a ton of ways to stack might without a bow I would personally rather have the boons and precision. Hydromancy brings damage and helps to ensure that your target stays in melee range. Makes landing Final Thrust a lot easier too. I also like Vigorous Focus over DotE sometimes because it adds a ton of extra sustain that you may need since you don’t have the easy cleanse of a Longbow. The original isn’t bad by any means, I just prefer this version.

Slightly revised version

I agree that Shoutbow is just stupidly effective. That being said, I’m hoping that the teef gets enough tweaks that maybe a build like this becomes viable as a replacement as roamer. From a streaming PoV it’s a way more interesting build imo compared to d/p. The AoE on Greatbow is also way better.

I want to eventually get good enough at this build that I don’t need Defy Pain and can maybe run something like Spiked Armor which will increase my damage output.

Purple Miku.7032:

For the first build or standard version, I find your selection for discipline wasteful. Seeing as you’re using runes of the pack and you aren’t going to be camping greatsword all of the time, warrior’s sprint is useless. Signet mastery would be more useful than it for signet of rage or actually, vigorous focus maybe because you have two stances.

Other than that looks good.

I generally use Rampage or Banner as my elite. So, when I’m out of combat and in between points it’s useful to have the speed. Also, if the swiftness gets stripped you can still avoid getting kited.

Also to those above, I used to be anti DotE but I find that I actually like being immobed when I use Whirlwind attack as that can be a good 7k damage if they’re next to you. It’s also very useful for killing Eles I find and in team fights almost everyone has at least 3 boons.

I think the problem with not having Bull’s Charge is that you then only have the combo of Pin Down +100b and other than that you’ll only maybe use 100b to cleave on downed enemies. At least with BC you got 2 ways of taking advantage of it.

As for Cele…I can see it being OK but I think what makes Cele good is when both of your sets take real advantage of power and condi (like sword). GS is pure power and any condis you get out of it are only gonna come from runes/sigils.

Outside of duels, when I play Mesmer and my enemy has little mobility I’m going to abuse the hell out of the terrain and never be anywhere near them except for shatters.

That Mesmer in the video stayed way too close. They should have waited for your Earthshaker and then blinked away the opposite direction before it lands. If the blink is traited then you’re now out all by yourself and will be hammered on your way over and if you land Mes’s GS 5 then you’re pretty much screwed.

They also placed their clones all in range of your Hammer AoE.

You really can’t be too original on Warrior…or really any class atm. Some traits are going to be required and support is just needed in many cases. With a Hammer you basically have to go 6 in defense cause you need Cleansing Ire as well. Burst Mastery is needed even more now that adren has been nerfed, that or you need some other source of adren.

Until ANet provides Warriors with a more useable Mending we’re going to have to put a ton of focus into countering condis, which means you’ll almost never go more than 2 into the Strength line except on Greatbow builds. Even with 6 in Str the dps gain you get isn’t generally worth all the sustain you lose. Basically, right now there’s only a few builds that don’t have most of their points in the bottom 3 trait lines with the occasional 2 in Str.

To beat Mesmers you either need a Longbow or a Greatsword. If you have both, most Mes builds will be fairly easy to beat. Try to save your AoE for when the clones begin to go for the burst. If you see several clones in one spot, drop your Combustive Shot and Arcing Arrow there.

Also, save your Whirlwind Attack for emergencies. If you get immob’d and you know a shatter is incoming it can kill the clones, avoid the clone death effect, and avoid the damage.

You can maybe win with Axebow as power, but probably not against a good Mes. Now, with that trait loadout and a sword offhand and Celestial (I hate the ammy too, but you can’t deny it’s use) you can go Axe 3 (to immob) and Sword 4 and that will punish them for moving with torment. Using Evis through Combustive Shot will give you a fire shield that applies burning when hit and gives you might. That build has enough conditions to punish most mes builds.

You could probably even still get away with using Zerker gear because the might stacks will still up the condi dmg.

@Torqiseknite.1380 I basically agree with your assessment. It’s just too unreliable to depend of “on crit” traits that may or may not decide to proc when you can just have a flat increase.

What about letting the gate guards be revived but not the gates themselves?

mulzi.8273:

The mindset of a player playing thief is also to blame at some level. The class seems to attract the most elite jerks in the game, and even the no so great ones have severe attitude problems (in general, not all). I attribute it to the playstyle of the thief.

When I play my thief, I’ve noticed that I play more like an jack*** than with any of my other characters. Dunno why, its a subconcious thing i guess, but on any other class i’m friendly, helpful, etc. Put me on a thief, and i’m bloodthirsty, vengeful semi-jerk who’ll chase a target all over gods creation and farm them into oblivion just for looking at me funny…

Fighting one turns me super salty. Fighting almost any other class, I’ll probably be able to enjoy myself (unless you crate me in a duel, really man?). With teef, it’s almost never enjoyable unless it’s a gag build.

I know duels aren’t important, but teefs are almost always really bad mannered. They move up so they can Steal instantly and they often don’t even wait for your /bow to finish (or they skip bowing altogether) so you lose a quarter or more of your health instantly. What’s worse is that if you call them out on their BS you’ll get “lol QQ more” “lol u mad?” “haha so salt” ect. but if you beat them they’ll insult you, your build, and your mother.

It seems like most trolls are also teef players as well. I agree that the playstyle may have something to do with it.

Asking how to improve rifle is not an easy question. Here’s all the problems:

Skill 1: The bleeding on the old version wasn’t good, but with 5 points in arms you could at least get 10% more damage out of it. Now, it hits a pathetically small amount. Rather than making this a super long range weapon like Ranger LB, I would rather the rifle be more mid range focus. Maybe give this attack a damage bonus between 400-700 units. Make it deal roughly the same bonus damage that Ranger LB gets at long range.

Skill 2: I suppose there’s some synergy to be had with Leg Specialist, but having it ONLY deal cripple and a pathetic amount of damage is silly. Why not have this skill also give bonus damage if the target has Vulnerability? That would make it synergize with Brutal Shot and if you have Leg Spec it also sets up the first few hits of Volley.

Skill 3: As the main damage skill, its damage isn’t awful but not particularly great either. I would give this the same bonus damage between 400-700 units as the AA. How much extra I don’t know but I would say it needs to be competitive with a skill like Volley (I know I’m normally against comparing skills across classes but it seems appropriate here).

Skill 4: If the changes to Aimed shot happened then this skill may be fine as is. Maybe up the amount of vuln to 10.

Skill 5: I actually really like this skill. However, it would need to have the knockback upped to 500 with my suggested changes so that landing it means they get placed right in the sweet spot for the bonus damage. Maybe up the range to 200 as a QoL change. Maybe change the animation to make the user swing their rifle like a baseball bat (be careful not to burn your hands).

Killshot: The last change to the cast time was good, but it needs one little QoL change to be viable I think. Make the user immune to blind while using the skill. There’s still the obvious animation and the ability to block/reflect unless they bring Signet of Might (which means sacrificing sustain).

With these changes that would make the rifle a weapon about maintaining that mid range distance. There would be the powerful combo of Brutal Shot -> Aimed Shot -> Volley and Rifle Butt will allow you to set that combo up. Will this make rifle viable? Don’t know, but it would hopefully be a lot more useable than it is now.

I won’t be able to play until this evening but I’m hoping that Greathammer and Greatbow is viable on War in this mode. I have a feeling Shoutbow is going to end up being the meta anyways. Support is just too important in this game.

A slight nerf to Rifle Barrels might not be a bad idea. It would encourage the use of Fortified Turrets (which I find to be a really cool team support trait) and would also make it possible for classes with long range to kill them without being destroyed by rockets.

You played well, but I have some suggestions from habits I noticed. Note, I am not perfect and still make some of these mistakes but because I know about them it helps me keep them in mind when I play.

When it comes to hammer, you missed a good number of your Earthshakers. I am aware that the skill is sometimes very unreliable in terms of terrain but there are ways to reduce that uncertainty.

Having Leg Spec like you do is one such way. I love Leg Specialist because it helps to counteract our classes predictable nature but simply not allowing your enemy to avoid some of your heavy hitting attacks. However you often went Hammer Shock → Earthshaker even if the Hammer Shock missed. Avoiding using ES unless your target is immob or if already CC’d is a good way to ensure you don’t blow the adren.

I often find myself going Shock → Staggering Blow → Earthshaker because that is more reliable AND unpredictable. Another good way to avoid missing is to wait to use ES until your weapon swap is ready. If you can tell you’re going to miss, just swap to GS again. Oh, and if you haven’t already bind “Sheath Weapon” to something you can reach easily (I have it on my mouse) because sheathing Backbreaker is a great way of getting people to panic dodge which means Hammer Shock is more likely to connect.

Like I said before, I still mess up following my own rules, but when I don’t my fights are much shorter.

Hoaxintelligence.4628:

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_GS/Longbow

Just because it’s on metabattle does not instantly make it the best version of a build. I’m looking for the rational behind your choice.

That build you posted is honestly not too amazing. It’s missing out on a trait that is all but required to be effective, Cleansing Ire.

Here’s a few builds that will generally wreck Necros but will also be slid against most foes.

Greathammer

Bull’s Charge can be replaced with Endure Pain until you get good enough at avoiding damage to not need it.

Greatbow

Not a ton of CC here but you deal enough damage and have enough condi cleanse via Combustive Shot that the Necro generally can’t keep up. If you can save Bull’s Charge for their heal (which will often follow if you land Pin Down) and they’re basically screwed.

Shoutbow and Hambow will also similarly crush a Necro unless they are really good at positing and can avoid the Warrior while Zerker Stance is up.

When I play PvP and get tired of running Shoutbow (or we already have one), my build of choice is going to be Greatbow. It’s fast and has good AoE and is also a decent challenge to play as well. That being said, there are a ton of ways to run this build. I still haven’t found the version I deem to be the best version.

Here are some of the most effective versions I have found:

Version 1

This is the standard version. One of my issues with it is that if I play smart, I may not need the Defy Pain trait and when it triggers it only ends up delaying the inevitable. I’m starting to favor Spiked Armor because it’s a good way to deal consistent damage vs foes that try to kite you. If you don’t end up needing Defy Pain, it’s useless, but Spiked Pain is almost always worthwhile.

Version 2

The 2 points in Tactics can go in Strength but I find myself liking Leg Specialist because it is very useful for setting up skills like Bull’s Charge and Rush. It also means that both the initial hit and the return hit of Bladetrail lands as well. If you use BT at point blank you can also use it to get a few hits of 100b in as well. The question is, do these benefits offset the 10% extra damage from Slashing Power and the damage on roll?

Version 3

Focused around might stacking. I used to think this was one of the better versions but I’m starting to think Ver. 1-2 are better from the start since this build takes some time to get the damage going.

Version 4

This one is kinda interesting. If you go Pin Down + 100b you’ll make up for not having Slashing Power and so long as you keep at least 1 bleed on that damage boost applies to your LB as well.

There’s a few other’s but they’re most variants of one of the 4 above. I wanted to know what other Greatbow users thought was the most powerful version. This build isn’t really “meta” per-say but I think it can fill a similar role of a teef if played well (my group of friends has hardly any teef players).

P.S ANet, please revert the Building Momentum “fix” please, thank you.

EDIT: The general consensus is that Version 1 is the superior version and I tend to agree. While they all have their strengths relying on traits that have a random chance to proc to potentially deal more damage isn’t worth the guaranteed dmg of the points in strength. The damage of dodge skill is also very good for blind removal.

Turk.5460:

Shinoobi.1259:

Thieves aren’t hard to play. Stop making it seem like using stealth or shadow step is hard. It’s not. Stealth really was poorly implemented and now they just can’t go back. There’s no counterplay, there’s no soft counterplay against a thief who knows how to use its kit effectively. CC during revealed buff? Please. Like thieves aren’t constantly aware of that and ready to dodge during the time their actually vulnerable.

Ah there it is!
The cry of the person who has never played the profession! Was waiting for this. And tell me, oh expert of stealth, what are your thoughts on PU mesmers, or mesmers in general, who have similar access to stealth?

I don’t think you’ll find many Mesmers that think PU is fun. It’s not even super effective at killing anything quickly, it’s a slow bleed out. PU is the only Mes build I can think of that has excessive stealth. Your standard Shatter or CI Mes has enough stealth for sustain, but it doesn’t feel excessive. They also don’t lose conditions and heal while stealthed unlike teef.

You’re comparing apples to oranges. Most Mesmer builds that aren’t built for trolling have just the right amount of stealth. Builds like D/P or P/D on the other hand are designing around stealthing CONSTANTLY. It isn’t about being able to beat them or not, it simply isn’t fun for most players to fight someone that does nothing but stealth and blind.

What’s even worse is if you don’t have access to a skill with reveal even if you do take the advantage a “good” teef can either stack a ton of stealth or swap to SB and escape. Even worse, when it comes to D/P they’ll lose all their conditions which means it’s easier to exit combat and reengage before the enemy leaves combat.

Sure, I can beat your average teef as a Shoutbow, GS/LB, GS/Axe, or GS/Hammer Warrior, but it’s rarely fun on my end. You basically end up focusing on cleansing blinds until they blow their steal and then punish.

Lexiceta.4156:

I say they need a trait something like spirits so they can follow engie, right now they are not mobile enough. that would lead to more skill required

If the HoT is to be believed then they are getting something like this already.

Since the thread I posted my suggestions in got buried, I want to copy/past them here because personally I think changes like this would be feasible to implement but would have a big impact.

Any changes to Turrets that would make them skillful I believe will require an overhaul of their sustain when used with Plating/Autotool. If you want to encourage the use of traits like Fortified Turrets over Rifled Barrels then you’ll have to be able to place your turrets more often so you can actually make use of their shields. As a tradeoff, their current sustain should be much lower than it currently is. The sustain traits can be used to make them a bit tougher, but they currently require far too much effort to kill.

With reduced cooldowns on pickup but lower sustain you would be required to “babysit” your turrets to make sure you avoid the longer full CD. In exchange you have a reduced pickup CD. Perhaps you could tie this in with Deployable Turrets so the trait sees use. An additional tradeoff to positioning your turrets off point would be that you may not be able to save them from being focus fired. However, with them being on point they will be more vulnerable but with careful management you will be able to place them back down again more often.

If you wanted to go crazy, maybe make the CD reduction greater the lower the turret’s HP.

Summary:

• Reduce the effectiveness of Metal Plating and Autotool Installation.

• Add a new effect to Deployable Turrets that reduces the CD when the turret is picked up. I have no idea what a fair reduction would be.

• If you wanted to be really creative, tie the reduction to how low the turret’s health is when picked up. The lower the HP, the greater the reduction. This would theoretically mean more incentive to run Fortified Turrets.

I feel like these changes could lead to rewarding active turret users, while punishing those who use them passively. The reduced sustain would not hurt active users, while passive users will quickly lose steam when their turrets sitting off point are targeted.

I play every class except Ele. I’m going to be honest and say that teef is my least played of my classes (he’s still lvl 80). The reason for that, and the reason why I dislike facing teefs, is because they are not properly punished for missing attacks.

On my Warrior, when I play zerker it’s important that I don’t miss any of my important attacks. The attacks hit hard but are highly telegraphed. I feel a sense of accomplishment when I land all of my best attacks.

I don’t feel this sense of accomplishment on teef. If I’m D/P and go for a backstab and the other player dodges/evades/blocks/etc rather than being punished with a reveal I am instead allowed to attempt to attack again or I can stealth again and go for another backstab.

Similar situation with most teef builds, there’s always some way out of a situation that feels “cheap” to me. With Sword I can use the 2 skill through obstacles which means that when something goes wrong I can return safely behind cover and start the process all over again. P/D basically plays itself, a shame because the aesthetic of said weapon set is great.

You would think a class based on ambushing your target would punish you for fumbling your assassination attempt. That would make being successful more rewarding. It would also make forcing those fumbles to happen more fun on the other player. Right now, teef is a chore to play against even if you win.

Some suggestions I’m on board with (+ some of my own):

Slick Shoes: Limiting the number of times the target is knocked down to 1 per puddle. Even as someone who plays Engi a lot, I feel cheap when I use this skill.

Teef: Having your attack block/evades/etc when stealthed applies reveled. Even though I’m getting rather good at beating D/P Teefs, the lack of punishment for missing your backstab is ridiculous. Why do you get to repeatedly attempt to attack me when I already evaded your initial attack. It also allows them to stealth again with no repercussions for their failure.

I’ve almost deleted my teef multiple times because of how annoyingly forgiving it can be. Low health doesn’t matter when you’re given the tools to escape most any situation and you aren’t heavily punished for missing.

Warrior: Move Physical Training to Adept, make Mending a physical skill. I got a lot of things I would like to see on War but these two changes are fairly easy and would open up a ton of variety.

Any changes to Turrets that would make them skillful I believe will require an overhaul of their sustain when used with Plating/Autotool. If you want to encourage the use of traits like Fortified Turrets over Rifled Barrels then you’ll have to be able to place them more often. As a tradeoff, their current sustain should be much lower than it currently is. The sustain traits can be used to make them a bit tougher, but they currently require far too much effort to kill.

With reduced cooldowns on pickup but lower sustain you would be required to “babysit” your turrets to make sure you avoid the long full CD and in exchange you have a reduced pickup CD. Maybe tie this in with Deployable Turrets so the trait sees use. An additional tradeoff to positioning your turrets off point would be that you may not be able to save them from being focus fired. However, with them being on point they will be more vulnerable but with careful management you will be able to place them back down again more often.

If you wanted to go crazy, maybe make the CD reduction greater the lower the turret’s HP.

Summary:

• Reduce the effectiveness of Metal Plating and Autotool Installation.

• Add a new effect to Deployable Turrets that reduces the CD when the turret is picked up. I have no idea what a fair reduction would be.

• If you wanted to be really creative, tie the reduction to how low the turret’s health is when picked up. The lower the HP, the greater the reduction. This would mean more incentive to run Fortified Turrets in theory.

I feel like these changes could lead to rewarding active turret users, while punishing those who use them passively. The reduced sustain would not hurt active users, while passive users will quickly lose steam when their turrets sitting off point are targeted.