Guild Wars 2

DevonCarver.5370:

Daendur.2357:

What’s happening? They realized WvW is part of the game ?

Good one!

It is a good one, it is also rather sad that people think like this of your game. It is nice that you are pretending to fix this now.

Where is the GvG showdown thread? It does deserve a thread of its own.

I can’t wait to see it this week, King Vuka totally deserves his own featured spot this week. That fight he took over was amazing. Best comeback I’ve ever seen.

Doomdesire.9365:

I think this thread being moved was a good idea. The devs, if anything, are hinting at an external GvG arena, such like sPvP(but suited to the GvG community of course). Acknowledging GvG outside of WvW is the first step we need to take to get this GvG arena going.

Make this area the unofficial GvG forum, and we’ll see results.

If that is the motivation for the move then I agree that it was a good thing but I feel like it was just a sad attempt at decreasing our visibility and smothering our voice.

I have seen no hints at an external GvG arena.

DevonCarver.5370:

As I said above, we will address these, ideally, by the end of the year. The rewards will be better and the numbers will be less crazy town. There will also be some changes coming sooner than that that will go some length to addressing the imbalance in terms of total achievement points in WvW compared to PvE.

I’m very happy to see this. Though it doesn’t take very much from you guys to pleasantly surprise me.

I’ll just have to bookmark this forum now. Not letting this die, Anet won’t get us down.

Ogro, I think you’ll have to make it an extra long episode this week. 4 hours or so might do if you do some heavy editing.

SykkoB.9465:

Luiz Swordbreaker.6547:

Mif.3471:

saiyr.3071:

Yay, I love being moved to a forum where the last post on the page is from over a month ago.

Then it represents a perfect opportunity to take over this sub-forum as claim it as your own GvG forum.

I think this may actually be a good idea. Let’s make every post on the 1st page of this subforum about GvG. We can have posts for every big matchup for discussion without getting it too cluttered. When this becomes more active than the actual WvW subforum, we’ll prolly have enough to push for a rename to Guild vs Guild subforum

This is a great idea, lets turn this INTO r GVG FORUMS. Lets make it so big and loud that Anet can no longer ignore us, and give us r Arena like we have been asking for.

We can now Make r own MAtchup threads per match and go into great detail on each one.

I dunno, Anet has proven to be incredibly good at ignoring players. Often with right (like all the thief whining threads) but too often good suggestions and feedback as well.

I think there is no limit to the amount of beautiful things they can ignore.

This is mean.

It belongs in WvW.

Wamgor.9347:

Best match up we’ve had in awhile to be fair…

Nice to see Elona change a bit and not just rely on stacking mass numbers as much as a server like Abbadon’s do with little style.

Augury rock… I love augury rock, it’s my favourite server to fight, their mentality is spot on win or lose they bring the fight to you… when so many other servers go in hiding and zzzz you to death… you know you have to always be ready for a fight vs Augury or you will get rolled. Also nice to see multiple strong guilds on both servers, so much better than a dead match up and its nice for AG to be the underdog again against servers with a fairly good play style just better coverage.

We/I may joke around with our comms and French music in videos, but there is a lot of respect and time for Augury as a server… like last night we helped save your garrison from Elona’s big attack, that was a bit hectic and fun.

Keep up the good fights

/kind regards TUP

That’s such a cool thing to hear because being on this server we know that it is true. They are so accomodating for guilds and nice to us. Usually people on call eachother blobservers on this forum so it is nice to see something different.

I would like to say the same about your server but I haven’t played enough this matchup (I have exams) and it would therefore be insincere though the few hours I have played I have not yet seen anything to complain about.

Darius Glazkov.9750:

Hickeroar.9734:

I would love to be able to transfer to EU for a few weeks and see what it’s like over there without having to shell out $50 for the ability.

wut? if you think the game is region locked, it’s not. there is no difference between the NA and EU client. it just takes 5~10min to transfer to EU rather than being instant.

I think he is talking about the gemcost.

Vena.8436:

Jezynka.2651:

Well, Anet said they want epic battles in wvw but they boosted AC (and still are constantly boosting sieges and zerging) which kills these battles. Now are people sitting whole day behind walls with 10 ACs and shooting everything that moves or moving only in 60+ blobs and skill lagging others… With random matchups and no incentive in gaining points for server there’s no reason to siege at all. Without GvG the organized wvw community would die moths ago (or shrink to nothing). When Anet starts doing changes that make wvw more fun I may respect their desires. Now I will be playing with what game supports (and large battles are not) and what is most fun – GvG, organized guild raids in open field, arranged 1v1 etc.

The new orbs seem to be a bit of rock & hard place stick for ANet and Devon.

If they are desirable enough (offering powerful buffs) then they will by necessity of their spread out, multi-point capture require that zergs split up to capture and hold these while some people are left at structures for scouting. A full 80 man zerg is just not going to be able to cover that much terrain at sufficient speeds to stop multiple 20-mans or some such capping or decapping the points. But the buff will kill GvG (fairness) on the BLs.

Conversely, if the buff does nothing of worth (Magic Find/Gold Find zzzzz) then no one will care about it and continue their 80 man zerging all over the map. But GvG will be safe.

You make a good point but part of it is already true. Even now a 80 man blob is way inferior to 4 groups of 20 players. The thing is it’ll suck for at least 2 of those 4 groups because they will get rolled over, the other 2 might be successful in their exploits. It is hard to see why people would start to do the smart thing now if they have refused to do so before.

You could say that there is little incentive now because the PPT game is boring and many players have abandoned it. Why would people be more eager to go for a buff that would break competitiveness?

I think this new mechanic could be a lot of fun and I look forward to it. I do not think that it’ll save the game from blobs. The worst thing about this mechanic is that it might destroy GvG’s and because of all that I am very conflicted about this. I guess I’ll just have to wait and see.

I’m happy that you are happy with those wins. Good job!

Ogre.1750:

Hello Devon, welcome to the thread. Thank you for stopping by. The paste, although a bit vage, mildly suggests we should be worried about the continuity of our practices, at least short term. It’s a bit unsettling,

/snip

I though I was paranoid but Ogre hears it too. It is a bit apologetic so it does sound a bit like the speech you give before you shoot someone’s puppy.

Please don’t.

I have to say that I’m a bit conflicted about the new content that was announced. I think it might give some guilds the fights they are looking for during regular raids. Anet probably isn’t stupid enough to allow siege in these capture points so there must be some fights there. If these capture points work and bring more actual players to fight actual players and then I congratulate Anet on a job well done. They will then probably have made my time in the game better.

However as someone who supports GvG I’m scared that it might hurt the scene with the buffs of holding three of the objectives. I wonder why they have to be stat buffs like that? They could totally just make the orb buff a secondary thing like give magic find or increase speed and health on all dolyaks or just give 20ppt for holding 3 out of 5.

So I am happy that they are trying to bring in siegeless fights but sad that they can’t find a way to do so without hurting a player created competition to do so.

DevonCarver.5370:

I’ll post this here as well:

WvW is a game type that we believe very strongly in. We’ve seen that people have been organizing their own combat in WvW and that’s really cool, but WvW requires changes that are not always in step with the gameplay that has been emerging. Our focus is on making WvW as strong as it can be and we will continue to make changes with that in mind. We have been and will continue to discuss these open field battles, but in the meantime the changes we make to WvW will always have that game type first and foremost in mind.

It’s nice to get some recognition. I am interested now in what those discussions you have had about open field battles entail and why you can’t even called it GvG? If you want you can call it Nancy, it is a pretty accepted term as well.

I do appreciate the communication. The copy/paste response seems a bit distancing and cold though but I’ll take it.

I wonder why it took so long for even just this post to happen.

LilMcGinley.3890:

Raven.9603:

snip

AC mastery has removed this from WvW and like VoTF pushed hard for months back, it needs to change.

I’m still here. I’m glad people are bringing this up again, it was overdue because elsewise people might think that there is no longer an AC problem. The reason it appears as if the problem isn’t such a big deal anymore because of the awesome playerbase of this game. It only took a couple of weeks for certain communities to reject the AC’s. Even though AC could still kitten in open field, people have held back on using them out of love for fights. It does show that something is terribly wrong if people prefer not to use something that can give them a real edge.

LilMcGinley.3890:

Give Arrow Carts limited ammo.. problem solved. You want 20 ACs? congratz you just blew all your supply when you have to rebuild them

While that help a lot I think it opens up too many possibilities for griefing. I do like the general idea of having to tactically pick the right time to use the AC. Maybe give it 20 shots before it goes on a full cooldown for 60s or more. Something to reduce the spam.

Excalibur.9748:

It’s still too easy to take a tower. Siege needs to be buffed more I think.

The only buff to siege that will make towers harder to take is a buff that automates siege. The reason towers are too easy to take is not because they cannot be defended but because they aren’t being defended.

This should not encourage some Anet dev to actually make automated siege happen, that would be a terrible idea.

MacLeod.4208:

“But they already do. Defenders have always had a great advantage over attackers even before that AC mistake Anet made.”

-What advantage was that?

And like I said, I would rather see fewer towers (which should be very difficult to take) and more open fields to fight in.

The ability to engage when they want, to buff up in safety to go back into the tower. To rain down damage from the walls while your melee jumps on them. The ability to let them in and use the opening as a choke. The ability even to build an arrowcart, even before that ridiculous buff it provided for good cover and decent pressure. It wasn’t so overpowered that it was totally unsportsmanlike.

Those might seem like small advantages but in capable hands they can be used in the right way and let you keep your tower/keep.

MacLeod.4208:

Towers and forts should either give the defenders a huge advantage (like in real life) or they should just get rid of them all together, imho.

I would personally like to see fewer towers and keeps on the map and a lot more open space.

But they already do. Defenders have always had a great advantage over attackers even before that AC mistake Anet made.

I also agree very much with the OP. I had an idea of going back to the old AC thread (I have a couple of posts in that thread actually) and saying that I was wrong. AC’s didn’t ruin the game entirely. The players just went out of their way to avoid the new arrowcarts. One obvious example being GvG or like you said how you just abandan objectives because there is no point in attacking them anymore. The fair fights are gone and it is no longer fun.

Thanks for making this post.

We’re being rude? It was just funny seeing a post where one of the shadows vows to kill everyone but zergs only mere hours after I saw one of them stealth and run away from me and 1 friend several times. It was a little bait to an arrogant post and all was meant well.

I’m not trying to be a bad kitten as I’m sure most of your members would have little problem to down me.

EDIT:
I don’t mind your rp and even find it is entertaining but please don’t be hurt when you get called out on it.

Aberrant.6749:

Caliban.3176:

Guardian is only good when you trait for the symbol but usually you’ll be dead before you can use it. If a guardian goes down people tend to throw blinds and give out stability immediately.

Blinds and stability stop a lot of the downed states. IMO that’s a GOOD thing. There should be a counter to each them. At the same time it should be as easy to stop as it is with war/eng though.

I don’t disagree, I just think that the OP thinks as bit too much of the Guardian downed state if he ranks it with Ranger and Warrior. I don’t think downed state matters that much however, it’s more important to just not get downed in the first place.

Aberrant.6749:

Idk if this has been mentioned but there is a guild (which shall remain unnamed) that purposefully gets their characters close to leveling to help them win the first couple of rounds. This is very hard to prove (it was only confirmed to me by a member of that guild that I’m friends with).

Since you can’t rule out accidental leveling up you can’t blame them for doing this. Also they would already need some momentum before their tactic pays off because you only get exp when someone goes full down.

If however they would all participate in the warg event and someone else in their guild would complete it at a crucial time to force a level up than that is something I would consider cheating. But coming in with a near full bar doesn’t change much.

Guardian is only good when you trait for the symbol but usually you’ll be dead before you can use it. If a guardian goes down people tend to throw blinds and give out stability immediately.

Thesilentflute.8761:

saiyr.3071:

That’s a very nice way of saying nothing while sounding haughty. Pretty much every single GvG guild has done “real WvW” for many months now, and many of us are recognized for open field skill against large groups. I’ve played WvW almost every day of this game’s existence minus the short time it took me to reach Straits of Devastation and get bored of PvE, and most of it wasn’t spent in GvG. People like you who look down on non-T1 servers because you think it’s purely “skill” are completely mistaken. It’s like that one JQ guy who said “oh yeah Maguuma could beat JQ’s SEA zerg if only they had any skill”…what a joke. If you want to be taken seriously then please enlighten us on all this hard work you put into being T1 that isn’t recruiting more guilds to come to T1.

It takes allot to recruit guilds you have to show them you have a good program and that the alliance will be worth their time and gold. This is something that is only shown through months of effort along with the ability to share your vision.

I don’t expect foot soldiers to understand the plight of a generals, but in good communities it is something that is very apparent. We have people/guilds that pull all nighters, that go to sleep early so they can fight in other time zones, and lead everyday for the good of there community.The team work and efficiency on our servers is breathtaking. I could give you 1000 examples, but I could never portray the weight of the situations. When your doing something that means something to you and you overcome the odds it is undescribable.

I almost envy you guys I wish I was on a lower tier so I could gather forces and kill the giants all over again, but I know I would prolly never find as good of a group of guys to play with as I have found on blackgate.

People have tried to recruit us before but in the end we just pick a server that has friendly people and a server that often faces servers with good guilds. We no longer car about your program and your community. We’ve done that on SFR and it was fun while it lasted and now we don’t want to repeat it because it is too meaningless and doesn’t prove anything.

Konrad Curze.5130:

Caliban.3176:

I love your tactics.
Stealth and run away!

I love your tactics
being a free kill and crying about it

I don’t think I have been killed by the shadows yet.

Tikitaka.1340:

Monitor his better Dolyaks because the Order of Shades (OdS) travels in search of blood, killing to everything the one that intervenes in the way (except the zergs). We do not have piety. OdS is be very accustomed to fighting and gaining combats in numerical inferiority, we are lethal and let’s wait that surgan good combats.

I love your tactics.
Stealth and run away!

There is an easy fix to that Orb thing. We just rig the game so it’s either always the third server to have it or to have it uncontested somewhere.

Orb in my keep? Come on in and take it away please, just don’t flip the keep and everything is fine.

I’m sure Silentflute would love this.

While I think this is a great initiative and I appreciate the effort I personally do not think we should have a big set of rules.

Right now gvg’s have grown out of a desire to have fair fights and common sense has applied in how to have these. I think it shows how much sportmanship all the players have that there have been minimal problems so far.

If you add a lot of rules however that might change. It creates the sort of mentality where everything not covered by the rules is still fair play thus creating a need for overly complex rules that have to list pretty much every case.

It makes more sense to me to just list what are typical things both guilds agree on before the fight and to let everyone’s judgement take it from there.

Rules legitimize loopholes and backdoors.

Thesilentflute.8761:

Don’t get it twisted I want you guys to be able to do what ever you enjoy as long as it does’t effect me. I saw a post about world pvp and it hit me if they added a flagging system like the pve servers in wow had that did not flag your reped guild the whole world could be your playground, other guilds could guest over, and you would not be effecting wvw.

The thing you fail to understand is that we hardly affect WvW because of a GvG match. The influence is minimal and always negligible in the long run. The only thing you could dislike is that while some play/watch a GvG that you have to sit in queue but that is hardly a valid reason. I may disapprove of people who run behind a commander with 60 people at least but I understand that they have a right to be there even if what they do is not playing the game ‘right’ or efficient.

Thesilentflute.8761:

Benjamin.6235:

Thesilentflute.8761:

20v50 all day right! /rolls eyes

You’re running over two guilds. That’s at least 40v50. Throw on top of that all the spectators that will join in and you got at least 80v50. Have fun.

Lol it’s exhausting explaining everything rationally. A third party group would most likely not attack you because they have a free map to take. One of your own factions on the other hand have enough of a reason to crash the party, but in all reality will prolly be too busy trying to carry the map undermanned with the distraction of “GvG” on it.

Leave this thread please and take that silliness of people caring about scores with you. We don’t care much for that nonsense.

Thesilentflute.8761:

Depending on the time it is done it can have a huge effect or none at all. If it is done early in the week it can turn the tide for the whole week by granting a server a foothold where they would not normally. If done late in the week or in the jp it has little to no effect on the outcome.

In the NA T1 match up 2 weeks ago bg had a 10-20 k lead a bg guild was challenged to a gvg and pretty much gave up the whole map during it(a pve guild at that) because of this offset sor gained the lead by mid week. Lucky enough for bg a sor guild was foolish enough to organize a gvg before they got to far ahead and bg was able to pull ahead by 10k in the end. Turning the tide of battle is not a hard, but “GvG” happens to directly question the value of the achievement set upon.

This is pure nonsense. Points are hardly affected by Nancy and that moralizing effect you are trying to describe is non-existent. If you don’t like what these people do just say so. Don’t make up this kind of nonsense.

kokiman.2364:

saiyr.3071:

Are you serious with thinking GvGers should be banned for “trading kills”?

I never said that.

I said that in GW1 this would count as match manipulation resulting in a ban.

This would not count as match manipulation. Never ever has a Nancy changed the outcome of a match. Nothing is being manipulated. The only thing they are doing is playing the game in a very non efficient way. But so are many people who are just running around for map completion, repairing walls that shouldn’t be repaired or people taking supplies where they shouldn’t take them to help their server. None of this is match manipulation.

I’m sure if there was a similar game format in GW1 that this wouldn’t count as match manipulation, an accusation like that is just delusional.

kokiman.2364:

But it IS kill trading.
And like I said months ago in GW1 this would fall under the category of match manipulation leading to a temp. or even permanent ban.

How is it kill trading? There is no agreement on who gets to kill eachother. They just agree to fight somewhere and the rewards are abysmal so that certainly isn’t a reason for it.

It is just as much kill trading as 2 groups that see eachother across the field and decide to engage eachother without having talked to eachother earlier.

Obscure One.4357:

Caliban.3176:

Obscure One.4357:

Urrid.4593:

No queue? Go nuts. Queue? Consider moving maps. That is about how I feel about GvG other than its a real shame this game is called guild wars and we the players have to shoehorn in good guild vs guild fights.

Anet wants to develop an esport? They are looking at it.

It’s funny. ANET tried and failed to create a e-sport mode with sPvP, and the players who came to the game for it are out in force showing ANET how it’s done with WvW.

It’s frustrating that Arena Net developers are being handed a solution to their PvP woes and not acknowledging it: 20-30 vs 20-30 team deathmatches that can be spectated live by hundreds. Feel free to monetize this with adds by folks like Logitech and Razer between rounds and matches.

Development advice free of charge there ANet.

I don’t really believe in 20v20 Nancy as an e-sport. It would just be too hard to manage a 20 player team (probably need at least 25 in your roster) and get them all in shape. The player pool is not large enough to create enough teams to compete on a high enough level to become an interesting e-sport. I do think it is something that many WvW zergbusters would love to see implemented and be able to watch but a true e-sport is something I find unlikely.

If your suggesting that getting teams to get together, work cohesively, function effectively, and co-ordinate properly isn’t a viable method of producing an e-sport because that’s “hard” then you’re inadvertently agreeing that it’s not only valid, but possibly the most valid thing to learn to manage. Look at any pro sport. Those guys are the best at what they do, and they’re only as good as those around them because they work together cohesively as a team.

As far as volume of players is concerned, there’s already an audience of hundreds of millions that watch e-sports. That’s an unignorably huge demographic that have never seen an MMO in the line up. If even 1% of that audience would be interested in not only watching, but also competing in what you’ve already noted to be an incredibly “hard” i.e. challenging level of play, were talking about over 1 million players, ONE MAH-MAH-MAH-MILLION!.

The competitive gaming market is only getting bigger, and with ANet’s deliberate choice not to pursue it in lieu of garbage content development aimed to please PvE casuals does nothing but make them look foolish when they could be securing a niche in the E-Sport demographic…one they said they’d be pursuing prior to launch and have all but abandoned ever since.

I was mostly suggesting that it would be very hard managing teams of 20 players that have e-sport potential. Managing teams of 5 or 8 seems a lot easier but sadly that is not what the Nancy scene is looking for.

I really love Nancy but I’m a bit sceptical about its e-sport potential. Though I would love for ANet to prove me wrong.

VaaCrow.3076:

Guild v Guild doesn’t belong in world versus world, whilest your having your duels your taking up que slots for people who could be attacking/defending on that map, doesn’t matter if the people who would be there are militia/upscaled, WvW is about objectives. See this objectivley. Yes people occasionally using crafting stations do take up slots but theres never 20 people sitting on each one for hours doing their crafting, unlike guild versus guild groups.
Fact of the matter is world versus world is not GvG however much you would like it to be, quit annoying wvwers with these events and start to annoy anet on the forums with dozens and dozens of threads asking for gvg.

Just be aware not everybody shares your view, op. I disagree with most of your argument and think that while yes some might find gvg fun it is detrimental to the servers wvw efforts on the whole. Also, inb4 you flame me for having a different opinion OP.

OH btw your attitude towards militia/pugs/casuals is very, holier than thou. they do alot for a servers community, and should be treated with the same respect you treat one of your guildies, the only thing they don’t have that you do is your guild tag. They deserve a slot in WvW exactly as much as an experienced wvwer does, so saying “would you rather have 20pugs or a 20man experienced groups” is an easy question, i’d take the pugs, atleast they’d be doing something productive with their time in wvw, instead of taking part in/spectating something thats not even meant to be going on in WvW.

I acknowledge that you have nowhere else to do GvG but this isn’t a problem you should be storming the community with, its somethign you should discuss with Anet. WvW is WvW gvg accomplishes nothing, no towers/camps/keeps captured, nada.

Most guilds will go raid after a bit of Nancy and at the very least take back their own corner of the map. The other side has not had the time to upgrade it for sure so it is still easy to take especially since the other side is going to do the same and the ‘owner’ of the homemap has to defend from 2 attackers who are quite sick of fighting eachother at that point. So let’s say they lose everything for you server for 2 hours. That’s 2 camps a tower and a keep. That equals 45 points. Let’s round it up to 70 for dolyaks and the occasional random camp you get to flip for a tick. So they lose 70 ppt for 8 ticks. That’s 560 points in total. So that leaves a point difference between the the servers that have played Nancy and the one that has not of 1120. Let’s be generous and say that because of upgrading loss this leaves you at a 2k point disadvantage.

You won’t lose a matchup because of that and that is assuming nobody on that map is achieving anything for your server. Also since Nancy is not that isolated it is very likely that on another day or even the same day the other team will play as well so it all evens out.

The entire argument that it hurts the efforts of a WvW community is ridiculous. Especially in EU where what happens in primetime means almost nothing because at night everything changes.

I’ve been up al night so there might be some mistakes in my maths.

Obscure One.4357:

Urrid.4593:

No queue? Go nuts. Queue? Consider moving maps. That is about how I feel about GvG other than its a real shame this game is called guild wars and we the players have to shoehorn in good guild vs guild fights.

Anet wants to develop an esport? They are looking at it.

It’s funny. ANET tried and failed to create a e-sport mode with sPvP, and the players who came to the game for it are out in force showing ANET how it’s done with WvW.

It’s frustrating that Arena Net developers are being handed a solution to their PvP woes and not acknowledging it: 20-30 vs 20-30 team deathmatches that can be spectated live by hundreds. Feel free to monetize this with adds by folks like Logitech and Razer between rounds and matches.

Development advice free of charge there ANet.

I don’t really believe in 20v20 Nancy as an e-sport. It would just be too hard to manage a 20 player team (probably need at least 25 in your roster) and get them all in shape. The player pool is not large enough to create enough teams to compete on a high enough level to become an interesting e-sport. I do think it is something that many WvW zergbusters would love to see implemented and be able to watch but a true e-sport is something I find unlikely.

Phantom.8130:

Caliban.3176:

Phantom.8130:

a mesmer is fantastic for its utility skills. portal, veil, null field, timewarp are pretty much essential for any group to have. there just isn’t any other class that can bring what a mesmer can. afterall, when a keep flips, no one ever says “sweep for guardians!”

Mesmer is great but portal is pretty much dead. I don’t think I’ve taken on in the last 4 months. I really thought they’d let the watchwork portal devices work in WvW then people would have to sweep for guardians.

no, the portal certainly isn’t dead. portal bombing isn’t as prevalent as it once was, but there are still ways to make it work. it just requires a bit more creativity. however, portal bombing is, and always was, only one of the many uses of the mesmer portal. multiple mesmers are used to chain-portal golems across the map in a matter of seconds, to be able to hit anywhere at any time. then there’s always the tried and true “mesmer hiding in the keep” thing, as well as portalling in reinforcements after the defending side has patched the outer gate. i’ve also used it with blink to reduce a zerg’s tail, and keep everyone moving as a tight group. not to mention, it can also be used to move a zerg past a choke point that’s being covered by arrow cart fire, to the back lines, to kill them all easily.

I was wrong, I have taken a portal as a golem.

Phantom.8130:

Caliban.3176:

- Defenders way too disadvantaged. A small group of smart and capable defenders should be able to hold off a much bigger force for a while. I remember pushing back zergs of 50-60 players with two parties trenched in a keep, with smart use of GTAoE and PBAoE spells. Impossible here with the pathetic cap on AoE attacks.

I agree with your main concerns but this is just wrong. While it is not possible to hold of 50 people with only 10 or so, defenders are in no way disadvantaged.
Defending is easier than attacking by a long shot already especially considering overpowered AC’s. A properly sieged keep defended by 30 capable and coordinated players is pretty much impossible to take with less than 60 and even with bigger zergs it would be very very hard.

actually…. no. see, i’ve seen your guild group in action and, no offense, you just didn’t know what to do. there are very easy ways to take keeps with a 60 to 30 numbers advantage. you guys just never bothered to learn them. believe me, every other guild group i’ve come across, in both NA and EU, have been able to secure the objected when outnumbering the enemy 2 to 1. they employed methods that you guys never even bothered to try, methods that are pretty much old hat at this point.

i don’t mean to insult you guys, but you’ve been the most vocal about “defenders having the advantage”. the fact is, you just never learned how to attack. i’m sorry, but it’s true. you’re great in GvG, but are well behind the rest of the class in every other aspect of WvW.

as someone who’s successfully defended against you guys while being severely outnumbered, i saw where the holes in your game were. if you’re open to the idea, i can tell you how to fix that as well. just send me a whisper in game, and i’ll teach you how to break through any siege defense.

I’m sure you meant no offence and I understand why you would say this, it is however not true. The truth of it is that we know of all these other ways to attack and get an objective but we don’t really care enough. If garrison has a defensive treb, some well places ballista’s and catapults and AC’s, I’d rather walk away. It’s not worth it. We will poke around to see if we can provoke some even fights against actual players but capturing the objective is always of secondary importance.

In days long past we used to care a lot more about those objectives and the right siege placement as well as the countersiege tactics. I just find them boring and no longer have the serverpride to power through the boring stuff (maybe if I ever go back to SFR).

There are more reasons than just our experience with attacking that lead us (me especially) to say this about defending. We have done our fair share of defending as well and even without maximizing the defending potential from proper siege use we do very well against larger forces and there are others like us.

Defenders have a great advantage in this game but they have to be there to defend. That is the greatest advantage attackers have, they can walk away from a defended structure and go attack an empty one.

Vera Minerva.1739:

I don’t do townclothes as a spectator, mostly because of <expletive> kids that let themselves autoattack while they afk, but i do frequently take my weapons off of equipped and rock the guild kite, still giving me access to my utils which are stun breaks/swiftness boosts.

I’ve never been attacked by an afk person yet and I do expect them to get killed very soon. Problem solved.
The kites are pretty annoying because they can block the view of other people.
And wearing townclothes does give you access to all your skills except for your weapon skills.

Ogre.1750:

Big point beign made here… I like the idea of town clothes for spectators, but it could lead to terrorism. I mean any decent pvper will give it a thought after seeing troves of defenseless and almost naked fans gather. We cant forget there is a war going on.

And about ghost pots.. valid claim, this tradition might be a carry over from WvW mentality that really doesnt fit in clean-cut fair and square competition. Thoughts are welcome, but if i try to be unbiased, I see them going.

The second you take damage you switch back into your normal clothes and regain access to all skills. So it wouldn not matter that much. In a perfect world everyone would just /sit but then they might not be able to follow the fight if clash is occurring to the sides.

I don’t mind the potions and I don’t think it gives that great of an advantage.

I would like to use this new thread to maybe discuss some etiquette rules. especially for spectators.

I think all spectators should be in townclothes so it is obvious that they do not interfere. The only reason not to be in townclothes is because they killed the warthogs (very nice of them) or because they accidentally got hit by the playing guilds.

Do NOT interfere, it is just mean.

I’m a bit conflicted over this but if there is a queue and you are just a spectator with no stake in the game (i.e. it is not your guild playing nor are you playing against any of the guilds soon) you should be nice and watch the stream so the guilds that actually fight can get their players in, you can always queue to get back in later. Most fights are streamed from several pov’s. Nobody can force you to leave but you could leave the BL just to be nice, I know everybody will appreciate it.

Phantom.8130:

a mesmer is fantastic for its utility skills. portal, veil, null field, timewarp are pretty much essential for any group to have. there just isn’t any other class that can bring what a mesmer can. afterall, when a keep flips, no one ever says “sweep for guardians!”

Mesmer is great but portal is pretty much dead. I don’t think I’ve taken on in the last 4 months. I really thought they’d let the watchwork portal devices work in WvW then people would have to sweep for guardians.

But yes, you can always go for a good mesmer. I do know that a lot of mesmers have become very bored with mesmer though. Sometimes they are used merely as a class for minor gimmicks (which is sad because it deserves more, way more).

Roll whatever you want, it mostly depends on the build you end up running.

Guardian has good buffs and healing and so does the ele. Necro, mesmer and thief are good at spreading conditions and necro’s and mesmers can boon strip. Warrior also does good buffs and conditions but most of the class is still damage.

Don’t go for a ranger though.

- Defenders way too disadvantaged. A small group of smart and capable defenders should be able to hold off a much bigger force for a while. I remember pushing back zergs of 50-60 players with two parties trenched in a keep, with smart use of GTAoE and PBAoE spells. Impossible here with the pathetic cap on AoE attacks.

I agree with your main concerns but this is just wrong. While it is not possible to hold of 50 people with only 10 or so, defenders are in no way disadvantaged.
Defending is easier than attacking by a long shot already especially considering overpowered AC’s. A properly sieged keep defended by 30 capable and coordinated players is pretty much impossible to take with less than 60 and even with bigger zergs it would be very very hard.

Link it to WvW all you want but I think it would be better to open up transfers every 4 weeks or so. Create seasons, that way people and guilds will create strong servers and alliances every 4 weeks, things will move around. There is such a thing as too stable a server. If you do this you can even make the random deviation a bit bigger.

Elochai.1280:

Many of these ideas are good or common sense, but I also see lots of bad ideas. For example:

Removing siege: Really? You want to scratch at the gates all day long?

Trebs, mortars and arrowcarts have to go. The arrowcarts have to be nerfed at the very least to what they were before that stupid buff from a couple of months ago.
Trebs are too boring if built inside any structure. I’d agree with trebs if they did not allow to have trebs to be built in keeps or towers. Only open field trebs allowed and trebs should do more damage in that case.
Mortars need to go because they would stop people from going out to attack open field trebs. Buff cannon damage to golems to compensate.

Catapults and rams are fine. Rams could use a bit more health but it’s not a big issue.

Jamais vu.5284:

This match everyone no native English speak because this no talk in thread

Not everyone on a French server is French …

Also I like how your form fits your content, it’s lovely.

Fuzzion.2504:

Kaamau.5341:

this thread is still going O.O

11 weeks and counting. This thread may actually break record for longest ever WvW related thread.

The Deso-SFR-Vizu thread got over 100 pages. The AC thread had way more pages as well. I practically wrote 23 pages myself in that thread.

-We’ve decided that we actually want the players to use and hone the skills that are specific to their character. For this reason we are removing arrowcarts. We are very sorry for screwing up so monstruously with that buff a couple of months back. We have identified the culprits and have punished them. They are now responsible for the living story content and will never be able to harm your WvW anymore.

-All masteries that give a competitive edge are now removed. Instead of those you can spend your points into ranks that give you several cosmetic changes like skins for tower banners you claim, unlock skins for weapons and other fun stuff that doesn’t bother anyone.

-Most of the PvE mobs are gone, especially along the big highways of the game. You will no longer lag behind because of combat speed or have enemies rally of drakes when they engage you in an awkward spot. As a bonus we’ve also got rid of all the mobs near the windmill.

-Speaking of the windmill, there are minor adjustments to the terrain. There is now a clear battlefield and people can now stand on the cliff to spectate but the only way to walk up there is from the sides. While our gameformat was not created for what is now know as Nancy in the community, we thought that these minor changes might be fun for the people who enjoy it. It was hardly any trouble for us and it would just be cruel for us to deny you this any longer.

-The spectator’s cliff I just spoke about is only accessible for people who haven’t been in combat for 1 minute. Entering this cliff forces you into your townclothes.

-We’ve slightly adjusted drop rates for certain things. Precursors are more likely to drop and you will receive less spikes. Upscaled players will no drop higher level loot, no more [Tiny Lootbags].

-A spot on the borderland is now accountbound. After leaving the borderland you have 2 minutes to get back in and it is possible to go back in with another character. People who crash can do the same if they are fast enough.

P.S. No more lag, you’re welcome.

DevonCarver.5370:

Krait, eh? Oh, they’ll get theirs! As for the skritt and the centaurs, I agree that they feel extremely out of place in WvW. Replacing them is not a simple matter, however. As we continue to improve on WvW we’ll be taking another look at the borderlands generally and what we think needs to be made mo’ better. It’s a safe bet the centaurs and skritt will not escape notice.

Could you, while we wait for you to replace them, just remove them? And take some of the random PVE mobs with them. Their need to be less PVE mobs in the WvW maps.