Guild Wars 2

Thrumdi.9216:

Can we declare Project Kill Your Own Game a success yet?

I think they broke the record for that project by doing it in a single patch. kitten ArrowCarts!

Rhaegar.5120:

any suggestions for a non cleric build?

Full Zerker.
Kill fast or run very fast.

Michaeas Magister.1589:

I like the way the Guardian plays, but get very frustrated at how easy it is to disengage from a Guardian and reset the fight

Thanks.

I know what you mean, you will probably get very frustrated then in WvW. This is the root cause of all the threads whining about thieves.

Dawdler.8521:

VOLKON.1290:

A mesmer can create phantasms and clones with his mind, an elementalist can “ride the lightning” into a group of foes and send them flying, a guardian can create magical walls of energy… yet people are worrying about the real life physics of arrows?

Actually, yes.

Magic is magic – we expect it to behave like magic.
An arrow on the other hand is not magic – its a physical object that should be subject to actual physics. And the arrowcart is just a plain wooden arrowcart firing plain wooden/possibly mithril arrows (presumable, orichalcum is too expensive to shoot)

Games dont have to be realistic, they have to be believable.

Now, if you where to tell me thakittens a magic arrowcart firing illusionary arrows, then it’d be a whole different matter. Actually it would even make sense, since all illusion based physics in this game are so bugged an arrow flying through a wall is no different from an illusionary leap being stopped by a 2cm height difference.

Sidenote: “its” is censored by the forum? I need to read up on my curses, kitten it!
Sidenote#2: Oh now I get it haha… Very funny. Score one to the forum.

Who says the arrowcart is plain and non magical? if you throw a blueprint on the ground it becomes a buildsite. Hit that buildsite with that wooden hammer that was conjured out of tin air and the supply (that you cannot see or feel, it is just a number on a screen) makes it grow until it appears. This arrowcart can also fire without having to be loaded, has arrows that undo stealthmagic and poison people. The arrows have some kind of weakness that they cannot hit people that roll. They rain down a lot of arrows but if your the 51st person in the area where they land, none of them will hurt you.

I think a good roaming warrior is doable but you’re probably better off with a guardian.

As someone has already said GS – Sword/Focus is a good choice. Scepter/Torch is also pretty good.

Watch out for mesmers though, if you can’t burst them down fast enough, you’re in for a tough fight.

Veeber.3192:

Hmm seems as tho AR and FR are only fighting UW, match manipulation much.

Seriously, people should start to understand that it is not because both server have (FR) at the end that they work together. In fact it is pretty much a guarantee that they will not do so.

Thaia.5146:

What the hell is this???

Yes, I’m in that matchup. It is ridiculous. We own 4 waypoints on EB. That’s crazy.

I feel bad for Underworld and Fort Ranik.

http://mos.millenium.org/eu/matchups/history/25

This match was decided in the last hour of WvW. Vizu came back even though SFR had a huge point lead in the week. But on Friday they were winning again so SFR had to step up.

Snowreap.5174:

13 ranks sounds like a lot, but it’s only a 400 point rating difference. a 400 point rating difference between servers in the same matchup is quite a bit, but without a gap that large Vabbi and FoW would always end up playing the same third server over and over.

making the randomness high enough to get some variety in the EU tier 9 match is probably resulting in a bit too much randomness in the other tiers (and I use the term ‘tier’ loosely). but I don’t have any good ideas on how to fix this. Vabbi and FoW need more players. maybe ArenaNet needs to create a “bonus” system where players in the bottom-ranked world get some free gems every week or something.

-ken

I’m in that matchup (the higher ranked server) and it may only be 400 points. But as said by the devs, points don’t mean anything. The difference between these servers is enormous.

LOL, Augury Rock, Underworld, Fort Ranik. This makes so much sense. Thanks Anet. Awesome job.

Rangers go last in any list.

Mesmer and thieves have certain niche uses. Not very sure about Engineers, don’t know them well enough and don’t see them often enough but I think they belong in this category as well. I’ve seen some great roaming done on Engi though.

Ele’s, Guardians and Warriors are the backbone of zergs and find some use in every other aspect as well so they are near the top. Necromancer is a very good class too but falls slightly below these three.

stinkypants.8419:

And does Lotus Poison proc for thieves?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lotus_Poison

Nope, not anymore. Traits no longer proc on siege. Lotus poison used to work on trebs like leg specialist did on AC’s.

Aaruhn.7049:

fix it. No reason that a class should have so much mitigation (i.e. stealth) in it and damage burst. No way a class should be able to go into a 20 man zerg without fear of dying. Get in trouble? Go into stealth and run.

I’m pretty sure that is exactly what a thief should be able to do. You can run into a 20 man zerg, you can annoy them, maybe even down 1 person. But you won’t be able to kill anyone and if you don’t run away very very fast you might die yourself. Seems balanced to me.

Nothing better than a guardian. If you just want to zerg it really is the best profession. Just get the toughest gear you can find and spam staff 1. You can’t go wrong with that. I wouldn’t want you in my zerg but you’ll get a lot of loot.

Jeda.5209:

Johje Holan.4607:

yanoch.7051:

After testing the range I decided I would keep AC mastery and get the last tier with the refund. The idea of that skill is great but 60 sec cooldown?!? Is it me or it is weak for something that cost 25 point?

There is very little info about it…

What has a 60 sec cooldown? That may make the difference in my choice. Heck in 60 sec the golems might be through the gate lol.

The final skill for AC mastery is a 60 sec cooldown. The one that unstealths anybody and makes them not able to restealth for a whopping 8 secs.

The stealth doesn’t matter, it’s the poison that is the real killer, even on a 60s cooldown that is pretty strong.

Is nobody going to say that a 5 man in a tower shouldn’t be able to have held off a zerg that has enough people to build 3 trebs?

I would say you won, they had to build trebs to take your tower. You and your defensive skills were superior, great job on that.

Your question remains valid though, there should be a possible countertreb and people in this thread have given you the locations for that.

I like it if people put trebs on that island, gives me something to kill and I don’t even have to break walls to get to it. If they are up those stones near the vista, get some targetable Sanctuaries and some mesmer pulls, that really annoys them.

nalenb.1425:

little ceasar.9254:

Lol, if an arrow cart can deter a Zerg what does it do to a small groups? The common answer is leave the tower and come back later with an even bigger Zerg.

We don’t have a bigger zerg. Under the new matchups there’s so little incentive to upgrade anything. Unless we focus all our forces on one location to only defend there’s little we can do to stop the enemy from taking our locations.

Last night we had a lot of people on and we barely managed to hang onto our garrison. If ArenaNet is going to make the matches so lopsided why not let us use siege to even the odds? I don’t know how to balance it with small groups though.

I understand your pain, that must be frustrating for you. But the old arrowcarts did a good job at evening the odds, there was no need for that buff.

Khayoss.2019:

Contiguous.1345:

I’m still waiting for 0.005% increased damage against ‘blobs’. (Outnumbered 10:1 or more)

Hmm. How about “Zerg Killer” each point spent in the tree allows 1 additional AoE target in any battle where the orange swords are present. Same price as the supply tree.

You do know that that would work as counterproductive as what they tried with the AC’s. If everyone in a 25 or bigger zerg has that, than they just become better at killing again. Yet another reason to blob.

It was a funny suggestion though, if it were meant as a joke. I only commented on it because somebody needs to explain ANet that stuff like this doesn’t work or we’ll get another AC debacle, (that still hasn’t been fixed yet).

little ceasar.9254:

nalenb.1425:

Zosk.5609:

Bunch of people want to mash arrow cart buttons and get WXP… not sure how a reasonable person can think that dropping half a dozen arrow carts actually breaking up potentially fun fights and turning back sieges… or that people sitting all day in a tower with arrow carts just sniping creates an atmosphere of fun or fairness.

People say they want to be able to defend, but this is not the way. Arrow carts are only good structure defense because of something that (hopefully) will eventually get fixed… attacking through doors and around other corners that make the arrow cart immune.

Want real defense…. slow down door and wall destruction, add things like postern doors to towers…and if you wanna overpower something make it the Boiling Oil.

I’m on Dragonbrand and this week we are fighting 2 tier 1 servers. A lot of our players look at the score and haven’t bothered to come out. There are even times during NA prime where we are outmanned. Often I’m sitting alone in a tower when a 40 man zerg rolls up. Exactly how am I supposed to defend this? Maybe I’m not and that’s the point, but it sure is fun trying to slow them down enough for help to come or turn them away.

Oil is a joke as are canons mostly. They are on the front edge so I must stand in the aoe from 40 people to operate them. Same for ballista. Catas used to help but now they can’t fire through the door so they are out. Trebs can’t hit close range so they are out too.

Without arrow carts I guess I’m supposed to jump down into the zerg and fight them all?

Arrow carts were the one deterrent to zergs for small groups. Now they are nerfing them because too many zergers complained.

I really wish they cared about WvW.

Lol, if an arrow cart can deter a Zerg what does it do to a small groups? The common answer is leave the tower and come back later with an even bigger Zerg.

This guy gets it. Arrowcarts hurt zergs but they hurt small groups a lot more.

Also, I don’t think anybody complained as much about AC’s as I did and I really don’t think of myself as a zerger. They definitely did not nerf anything because of what I said or they really only read like a tenth of what I wrote and understood even less. (Granted, I did write A LOT)

AC’s are still by far the best line.
Supply is good but too expensive.

What is this I read about elevation on AC’s and Ballista’s? I thought they did not matter for those siege weapons.

I like the wxp reset, now I can put the points I wasted in one of the useless lines into AC’s now as they are still by far the best place to spend them.

Thanks for the purple superior siege, nice touch.

Yaro.3251:

Caliban.3176:

They could probably make themselves formidable roaming opponents but there are already great parties like that out there, that would be nothing new.

Yaro.3251:

A-a-and now you went completely bapkis, confusing mentality with experience, as I’ve mentioned above.

You lost me with your last comment. I don’t know what you mean, please explain if you want me to reply to that.

All I was trying to say with that last part was that people who are used to playing very coordinated with 4 other people would have an edge in that part of WvW. However certain groups in WvW have also perfected that kind of play.

I’m having some trouble making myself clear as well. I’m very tired, sorry if it is unclear.

Yeah, I know. I was in the mood that costed me one apology already.

What I was trying to say is that your statement about sPvP players being able to make good roaming team [ but that’s it ] implies that they will carry to WvW their sPvP mentality of how the rules and shape of competitive PvP must be everywhere regardless of environment and therefore they will not be able to adapt and apply their sPvP experience to realities of WvW as a whole. I was disagreeing with that.

You make a good point and I agree. I was mentioning the roaming teams because I felt like it was the WvW aspect that required the least amount of adapting for them. If they are willing to adapt and learn (the curve is not that steep anyway) they would have an advantage over other players indeed. But then they would no longer be just sPvP’ers they would be players who do both.

P.S. It is sad that with the current meta (AC’s everywhere) the advantage of better skill management and microplay is greatly diminished.

Jackie, you are now bringing up some exceptional players. I was just saying that being an sPvP player is not enough to be a good WvW player. (Though my first sentence was a bit harsh, that’s true)

I can give you an example of a certain Ele who thought something was wrong when he couldn’t kill the camp supervisor with the weird buff. Then there is the siege placement and the siege usage. And what camps are more important than others. How you can use NPC’s to rally.

These are all things the sPvP players can learn, but things that do not transfer over immediately from sPvP.

And yes, you are a great commander.

Yaro.3251:

Caliban.3176:

Being a skilled sPvP player is not enough to be of any use in WvW.

I agree that it is not enough. But I would argue that it helps immensely.

Being a great multifaceted WvW player (like many players who have played a lot of WvW are) is not enough to be a good sPvP player.

Now here I would argue that WvW brings nothing new to sPvP table that it is not already promoting/teaching.

Thinking that sPvPers would be better WvW players than people who have actually played WvW for so long is very arrogant.

It is not the question of if experience in general thrumps almost anything. The question is, if tPvP experience gives any advantage to the player comparing to not having one.

They could probably make themselves formidable roaming opponents but there are already great parties like that out there, that would be nothing new.

A-a-and now you went completely bapkis, confusing mentality with experience, as I’ve mentioned above.

I agree with your first too comments, don’t see how anyone could disagree with those.

It is not the question of if experience in general thrumps almost anything. The question is, if tPvP experience gives any advantage to the player comparing to not having one.

Having experience in different gamemodes benefits your skillevel and gives you an advantage. I would have a hard time comparing advantages between someone with tPvP experience and someone with WvW experience. Especially since there are so many aspects to WvW. In the big picture of WvW I think tPvP would offer a rather insignificant advantage.

You lost me with your last comment. I don’t know what you mean, please explain if you want me to reply to that.

All I was trying to say with that last part was that people who are used to playing very coordinated with 4 other people would have an edge in that part of WvW. However certain groups in WvW have also perfected that kind of play.

I’m having some trouble making myself clear as well. I’m very tired, sorry if it is unclear.

It is also important becaus you want to know what BL you are going to. Playing your own BL is not the same as being on the attacking side. Even playing for your own Bay or your own Hills is different.

JoxerNL.3752:

It’s cute how the frenchies are quickly claiming cheats and hacks and what not, to try to move attention away from the fact both servers allied against PS

This is a really funny one. I read the french forums every now and then and it is extremely clear that there is no love between the different french servers. As far as I know there has only ever been 1 real doubleteaming agreement. It’s an old pact between Vizunah and Arborstone.

P.S. It did not last for even half a day

This is a good question. Maybe they could add some kind of emote that only works if you are dead and causes a flower to grow on your body. /push daisy (Maybe even add a colour to the flowers to relay different emotions).

Being a skilled sPvP player is not enough to be of any use in WvW.

Being a great multifaceted WvW player (like many players who have played a lot of WvW are) is not enough to be a good sPvP player.

Both give an advantage (personal skilllevel/ awareness/terrain use, diversionary tactics/group synergies) for people who “crossover” but it is not enough.

Thinking that sPvPers would be better WvW players than people who have actually played WvW for so long is very arrogant. They could probably make themselves formidable roaming opponents but there are already great parties like that out there, that would be nothing new.

You quoted an old explanation of the world xp ranks. It is pretty logical what stacks and what doesn’t.

Can’t you just do the rolls 1 hour before reset and then posted them immediately? That way at least people can organise themselves a bit better. Because the matchups are so very random right now, that last hour of play won’t be able to make a big enough dent in the rating to change a possible matchup.

Please Anet, 1 hour for opponents AND colours. That’s not a lot to ask for.

Piteous.4165:

I still don’t understand the decision to buff AC’s by 80%? I do agree that towers where to easy to take but 80% buff? At least take it back by 20% rams still melts even with the changes and whats the point of placing rams anyway if you can’t man them.

Please just let us play and quit making rash decisions that make people not want to log in and then not listen when it is obvious you made AC’s to OP.

Defended towers have never been easy to take.

Also it was not an 80% buff, it was actually A LOT more. Because with the rank abilities there is another buff to the range, to the AOE, to the damage and to the conditions and there is an extra skill that poisons.

I’m just adding all that for dramatic effect. It’s pretty ridiculous to look at all of this together. This was a single patch and applied to what was already an incredibly powerful piece of siege.

sostronk.8167:

Caliban.3176:

Even more alt-unfriendly than WXP ranks is the queue system. I could deal with the different ranks on alts (especially since there is not quick respec) if we could switch to alts without having to give up your spot on the map.

So true. And it ties in with what Devon mentioned regarding roles within the game. Depending on what the situation is on the map, you may need to switch to an alternate to cater for what role is required. But first you have to get in a 45 minute queue, then another 45 minute queue when you get on the map and find out you need your hammer char warrior because your allies zerg is lacking frontline and you had joined the map on your ranger.

Why would anyone ever bring a ranger? Is there some role that requires you to rally your enemies and make the game lag with dead pets?

But besides that you clearly understood what I was saying and this needs to change. Though I am fairly certain that Apple will stop abusing poor people and evades taxes before this will happen.

style.6173:

nglcpyro.4906:

Going to be interesting. Don’t really participate in mindless zergs because time can be better spent somewhere else.

Anyway I found this part funny. Even the devs poke a bit of fun at thieves.

Everyone has likely seen a commander laying out battle plans and then subsequently seen that one thief mucking up those plans.

I found it funny too. If a commander is losing to one thief, then the commander is really bad.

I think he meant it as the plans being ruined because they were scouted by a scout thief as Devon then goes on to talk about specific roles in WvW. He explicitly mentions scouts.

Funnier than this are the people who do the jumping puzzles for badges.

Do you know some people actually did them on level 2 alts they would create for just that jp and then delete it again? If they put half that effort into actually playing the game and killing people they would have gotten the badges much faster and probably have done lik 90% of their wvw map completion in the process.

Even more alt-unfriendly than WXP ranks is the queue system. I could deal with the different ranks on alts (especially since there is not quick respec) if we could switch to alts without having to give up your spot on the map.

As far as I know tagging someone is enough and even in very heavy support builds 2 or 3 auto-attacks will do to get you the credit for the kill. Not all kills drop loot. In my experience it ranges from 1 in 3 to 1 in 5.

There is no dedicated healer in this game nor a class that only buffs others. Everyone has a means to do enough damage to tag players and get the rewards.

I would not be against a system that rewards players that have buffed or healed players who did the actual damage for a kill but I am a little suspicious of possible ways to abuse such a system. Also I see no real need for it as it is not hard at all to get credit for kills.

This is just anecdotal and we do play in a pretty profitable matchup but as a heavy support guardian I got 159 (119 from player and npc kills (very few npc’s) and 40 from chests) badges tonight in just 2 hours of play. Getting credit and rewards is not hard.

Overall I’m quite happy with what I read. If this wasn’t the guy that brought us those overpowered AC’s, I might be a little more optimistic. I think they have now identified all the ‘problems’ but I do not have enough faith left to believe that they have the right vision to address these problems. (Please prove me wrong)

I thought this was going to be some thread pretending that attacking is so much easier than defending and that the defenders would need an advantage. I’m very glad that it isn’t because defending is easy.

This thread really touches on the core issue of this. People just choose not to defend for different reasons and those reasons need adressing and I think these are the reasons.

1: Not sure to get action. If you defend, you can only actually play if the others choose to attack. If you attack you actually have your own choice of initiating anything.

2: Unrewarding. Because you only get rewards when the event is on (for obvious anti-botting reasons). The defence event can trigger every 3 minutes while the attack can only happen once. But that ratio isn’t good enough especially since it can happen that you don’t get credit for the defence. If you do a lot of damage and dissuade them from staying on the gate but nobody dies, you won’t get credit. I don’t really know how they should fix this, but maybe they can figure out something.

3: Because of those previous reasons it is hard to find people to do it. That creates a new problem. Nobody wants to do it and therefore if you want to defend you are most likely in the minority. Defending can easily be done with less people but you do need some and the right minimal ratio.

4: Arrowcarts. The most efficient way by far is to use siege (trebs and arrowcarts), especially arrowcarts. It just so happens that this way of defending is also quite boring. I’d rather lose a keep than stand on an arrowcart for an hour keeping people away. (Luckily there is a third option to just jump off the wall and kill the attackers with your weapons).

Mindtrick.5190:

People play rangers in wvw?

If they do, I’d be surprised if they know what combo’s are.

Morgenes.6985:

So only Abaddon is blobbing?
Every time we run with 20 peeps guild squad we meet 50+ blobs from AR or BB.

So we can say the same thing from you guys.
Only thing is, we don’t have that many big wvw guilds so, you will only see us (sometimes with CE and/or fx), DP, Fame, or LNS running around with guild squads.
The rest will always gather, since they don’t have the manpower to run around in organized guild groups.

With best regards

Kayel Elduril – [ADAC] – Abaddon

I would love to see one of those 20 guild groups. Wouldn’t even mind groups twice that size. It’s the 50-60+ groups that I don’t like that much. But that’s just me, you don’t have to change for me.

It is not hard to defend any keep against a force larger than yours. Defending gives you a great advantage (as it should) and you hardly even need siege for that. With siege it is way too easy though.

Very sad this thread will get deleted because I totally support Troma in this.

P.S. How many “Last” Call to arms are you going to do?

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Also, this thread is about the bug that stopped siege from being in the game being more fun, not about the strength of ACs. And it definitely is not more fun when it’s a complete zergfest to take anything since the only way to stop a zerg at that point is with your own equal zerg, and that only zergs can beat down the gates in any remotely decent amount of time.

This is inaccurate. It is possible to stop zergs without having a zerg that is just as big or bigger. It is even possible to do that without siege. Interesting fact: Some people find that kind of defending fun.

This bug forces people into defending like that. Before that everything was too easy with one of those arrowcarts and you would kitten yourself if you did not use it. Now that is no longer an option and people have to use the brilliant combat system in the game.

While I think bugs should be fixed, I hope this shows people that there are other ways to defend towers or keeps. (and that the best way is a combination of a tiny bit of siege and some players with very big testicles) Maybe Anet can finally start fixing the Arrowcarts then.

Be nice, stay away from any group that asks you to do just that. You will never be as good as a fully geared lvl 80 and you don’t want to drag others down of course.

Thieves have it easy in zergs to level. Clusterbombs and choking gas will get you a lot of credit for kills (and if you spread some weakness you can help your allies).

If there are no zergs to follow try to find an arrowcart or go flip camps like others have suggested before.

To be honest, I much prefer people would not come to WvW to level. It is easy to do in PvE and if you have gold (which most WvW won’t) you can also do it with crafting.

Draygo.9473:

^ that’s a myth.

Your total damage does not have any effect on the chance to get a badge. You only have to do enough damage to tag an enemy.

Indeed and the treshold is quite low. Even on heavy support builds, 2 or 3 autoattacks will get you enough to get the credit.

Pro farming tip:
Get tanky guardian and learn to spam staff 1. It’s not the most fun way to play and doesn’t show a lot of skill but it is probably the best way to farm zergs and you don’t die very fast if you make a mistake.

I also thought that every chest would contain at least 1 rare and I thought that was a little generous of ANet. However when I read the patchnotes and it said Masterwork, I was so disappointed, I knew that at least 90% would contain useless greens now. I’m hoping they tweak it a little bit so that maybe one in three or one in four give a rare.

Jumping puzzles are the worst and slowest way to get badges. Supervisors and lords usually drop badges and 1 in four players does so as well. If you only got 2 badges in one hour than you were really unlucky. You should average somewhere between 20 and 50 per hour in primetime.

Our server built 4 arrowcarts in Garrison yesterday. We were GODS. With that and the lord banner res, our enemies had no chance. We didn’t repair anything because we wanted our lootbags to get in.

This is so op that is getting even more ridiculous. They weren’t even Superior arrowcarts. It’s funny for like 2 minutes but then the imbalance just makes you cry.

VOLKON.1290:

Calm down cubed. All they did was put the siege back in siege warfare. The vast majority are adapting fine to the changes as they are.

How would you know about the majority? There is no data to support that. I know my entire matchup now tries not to adapt to it. Where people would have built 4 defensive arrowcarts before they might build 1 now because if they would adapt and adopt the most efficient way of playing (the AC meta) the game would become too boring.

Dear sir, I do not know why you posted this in this thread but I am glad you did. I would call you my hero but I think it would be better suited to just call you a boss and if you’ll permit me I’d call you my boss.

Thank you for this.