Guild Wars 2

Gab Superstar.4059:

If you are trying to take a tower with 50 defenders in it I am pretty sure you are doing it wrong, AC buff or no AC buff. Thanks for driving my point home.

So we should take towers with no defenders in it? I like to fight people, that is what this game was supposed to let me do. Instead you are encouraging me to go to places because the are worth points (worthless points, might I add) and I can only take those places when there is no one there to fight. Sure bro. Sound like PvE. If there are people there, we should leave.

I suggest you start farming Orr, it has everything you look for.

AndrewSX.3794:

I bow to you masters.

The HitlerRage vid is just golden.

You’re welcome to submit you’re own material.
I’m thinking you could get a pretty good one with drunk Dimitri.

Phantom.8130:

Aneu.1748:

And yet again someone is making the assumption that THERE IS ONLY 1 ARROWCART.

Superior arrowcarts cost 40 supply to build, you can put an insane amount in a very small area and they are even more devastating now since they reach over double the length of the 1000 range of siege limit! I managed to get 12 prior to the buff, now I am sure I could get more to hit around a door…

So even if you destroy 4 on the ramparts that is still 8 you need to contend with that requires trebs which can be counter treb’d and not defended by swirls or any deflection.

Im tired of having the same redundant argument over and over with people who think this is ok for the game! Its really not and you will see that eventually.

no where in my post am i assuming there’s only 1 cart. in fact, i’m assuming there’s at least 6. why? because i’m a defensive specialist and know how to place defensive siege. what i am saying is: don’t use one dimensional attacks. you CAN counter anything that’s in the game if you do so properly. don’t argue, yes you can. everyone pinpointing into one area, and attacking solely from that area is NOT a proper counter. so…. adapt. if that’s all you know how to do, and refuse to adapt, then you might not be as awesome as you think you are and are going to go the way of the dinosaurs. the fact that you flat out refuse to accept that possibility, and berate people who flat out handed you a way to overcome it, is very telling in this regard.

now, personally, i don’t really care which direction you choose to go in. i do know which direction i’ll be going in. so you can go back to your meltdown now.

Ok have fun with the direction you’re going in. Now you can let us be and we can keep trying to get Anet to fix this mess so we can get rid of this type of play that support total idiots and their bad play so we can get back to real player skill.

YW

Ophidian.9043:

Neuromancer.2148:

Hilarious. I’m mildly surprised no one did an “arrow to the knee” one.

Forums were already full with that one so figured we skip that stuff :P

It’s true, actually as far as I know I was even the first to post that on the forums. I think it was something like this: “I used to fight people and then I took an arrowcart to the knee”

Aneu.1748:

sMihaly.1492:

What you can do is:
Use thiefs’ shadow refuge, stack up stealth, and build a counter AC before they even notice you are there. You can do anything by puting aside the mindless zerging “strategy”. If you lead the blob to a tower with AC-s in it, its like leading golems to oil pots.

You cannot stealth build sites…

AND!!!! for only 75 points you now have revealing arrow that will poison you as well.
game over

Wow, NA logged on and the same thing happened as on EU. Everyone that is known for actually playing this game and good at it hates this patch. Other people like it.

I’m loving all the examples of impregnable Hills.

MagiKarp.8201:

Can’t do it, might promote the unstacking of JQ and Vizunah which are obv 50% of the population.

http://i.imgflip.com/1b6ar.jpg Anet’s philosophy to wvw.

Edit: Doomdesire: Chaos is always fun in video games

Mine btw.

Lance.5892:

if you want to see more, theyre on the votf homepage!

http://www.votf-online.net/index.php?app=uportal

Yes these are funny as hell. (I would know, Ophidian and me made most of them)

The Hitler video was beyond hilarious as well. Pure genius.

Heijincks.9267:

The only thing this patch does is that it decimated PvDooring. People aren’t used to it, especially large guilds who PvDoored for most of WvW. Almost every break in resulted from PvDoor.

Of course we’d hear complaints. I’m not surprised since it’s day 1. People tend to be conservative when it comes to games.

However, people adjust. Eventually PvDoor will become a thing of the past and alternate, possibly more effective strategies to take objectives will become more prominent.

To be honest, I’m glad PvDoor is coming to an end. It’s tiring and mindless.

PvDooring is a term that suggest that your only opponent is the door because you attack while other players aren’t there. This patch will not touch PvDooring. It will attack what is commonly known as Facerubbing though.

You almost insulted several great skirmish guilds as PvD players and they most definitely are not.

This will end facerubbing and it will also end any group smaller than 30 to take anything that is even remotely defended. It will slow down the action of the entire WvW scene will decrease the amount of fights in the game. Basically everything people didn’t want.

People wanted to end zerging (this will NOT do that).

A 20 man guild group could outheal 4 AC and 6 AC’s if they were well coordinated. I do not see what is wrong with that. That sounds perfect to me, add to that however that there was a cripple and also a bleed on the AC. If anything the arrow cart has always been a bit too powerful.

DeadlySynz.3471:

dooh.1840:

just enjoy this xD

I do slightly higher damage with my ranger’s longbow AoE than those carts. So does that mean if there is a group of rangers behind a gate raining down higher damage on the gate smashers and rams, that those people are going to start complaining?

What if this group of rangers meandered their way out the gate with a bunch of guardians and other melee to protect them while they decimated an entire zerg? (yes this has happened, many times)

Where does the complaining stop exactly? There is so much tunnel vision going on in this thread it’s completely ridiculous. It’s like people want this game dumbed down to a simpleton level. D3 seems to be made for simpletons, perhaps these people should flock over there.

People seem to think that that players are just going to idley stand around while AC’s destroy them like a deer stuck in the headlights. Though I’ve seen people do that (they are beyond help) most do not.

People need to read between the lines here; right now the way this update stands is that keeps may only need less than a handful of people to defend a moderate zerg. This leaves the rest of the players to be out capturing objectives and wreaking havoc. I understand some people may like sitting in keeps picking their noses doing nothing waiting for a zerg, but I believe that far more would rather be out in the field.

Bottom line is, if the AC’s damage (or range) is out of control, Anet will scale it down accordingly. But as of now, it’s going to cause people to use their brains some more before attacking.

There are so many ways to bust into a keep it’s not even funny. One of the easiest and simplest ways is to render your enemy with no supply, done, game over.

Do you as a ranger hit 50 people per second? and have 3500 range? Don’t compare this.

Also, try looking at the people who are complaining about the new patch, they are not your average players. It has been said again and again. These are often a lot of people who know a lot about PvP games and have made a name for themselves and their guilds in this game and others. Trying to teach them about the game probably won’t work and they probably have a pretty good idea as to what a drastic change like this one can do.

After 7 months they randomly and without warning increased damage by 80% on a piece of siege equipment that most top tier guilds already found to be slightly too strong.

I know you could think this appeal to authority is a fallacy but it is just something to think about especially since the difference is so striking.

ErlendR.6107:

Aneu.1748:

Proposed changes
>Reduce Reinforced gate HP and damage reduction.
>Reduce Reinforced Wall HP and damage reduction.
>Reduce Fortified Wall HP and damage reduction.

Holy kitten … What the kitten i just read?
Last night we lost a full upgraded SM in 30 sec, and we take a full upgraded Lowland in 60 sec … ya reduce all anet, we like to flip, flip is fun
/no

I understand it looks weird at first but look at it a bit longer. If the structures have less hp then people will have to respond more and the actual people defending will be more important than the walls.

Now it is too easy to wait for the blob to come to the tower and save you. With less hp there would be less time for that and the zergs would have to split up to be able to respond to everything. On top of that sieging an objective would become a battle. Because people cannot afford to let their structures take too many hits they will have to go outside and fight people almost immediately to defend their tower. It forces people outside of towers as wel as give an incentive for zergs to split up.

It might seem counterintuitive at first but there is a strong reasoning behind it.

akunadin.5017:

how a bout U ppl just leave SFR and Deso… U all act like ur married to theese servers… its just a mmo.

Just abandone this tier 1 crap as lots of us did.

Offcourse a guild like Iron needs to split itself up first before u leave deso:p 300+ members eeks.

Regards, forever solo Greedy:P

I left. But shouldn’t something change so that if you win the highest tier (T2) you no longer get punished and sent to T0 (the vizunah hell). Two of the servers in T0 are the best servers in the game and they are forced to fight Vizunah, that is just mean. All that skill and they can’t use it.

Feydra.6318:

Its just great change it is anti zerg, if you stack up in a tight blob, a other team drops ACs in the field and quickly builds up, you are going to be sloughtered, wich is great, you have to spread out, wich makes perfect sense, lets see we cram as many as we can in one spot, as player abilities only can affect 5people, lol… its anti zerg if anything regardless of where

I’ll do this yet another time, tell me where I go wrong.

Arrowcart is much stronger now and hits 50 people very hard. It makes it a lot harder for groups of 30+.

It also hits groups of less than 30. It hits them so hard and they cannot escape from it (easier to keep pressure op on 5 players and hunt them with an arrowcart than do that for 20 people).

It comes down to this. It does make zerging harder. But it destroys everything that is not a zerg. So basically everyone is forced to zerg despite it being harder.

Dawdler.8521:

Caliban.3176:

Kreen.3925:

Stop chasing Kittens Aneu and tell it like it is, drink that 3rd bottle, you know you want to.

Its a megazoid smasher

No, it’s like this. It indeed makes it a lot harder for zergs. But it destroys anything that is not a zerg. So basically now everyone has to zerg and zerging has become harder.

I would hope that smaller groups have a higher average intelligence than a zerg and simply plop down a catapult in a more defensible area, far out of AC reach.

I really dont understand peoples issues with catapults. Just stay away from the door until its open and the ACs has been destroyed.

All this change really does in terms of keep defense is stop stacking on the door, be it a 50 man zerg or a 5 man group. Rams become a secondary tool, not primary.

No, it effectively destroys some of the better cata spots as well.

Apparently they hit the cata’s on the ruins to take briar. They will definitely hit the cata’s on the rock next to cliffside. Someone in Teamchat even said that they could hit the cata’s in the spot in inner garrison.

Heijincks.9267:

Caliban.3176:

Kreen.3925:

Stop chasing Kittens Aneu and tell it like it is, drink that 3rd bottle, you know you want to.

Its a megazoid smasher

No, it’s like this. It indeed makes it a lot harder for zergs. But it destroys anything that is not a zerg. So basically now everyone has to zerg and zerging has become harder.

Artillery is good against one person. It’s also good against 10 people. Are you saying anti-zerg mechanics should only be effective only on large groups?

It’s like AoE. You can choose to use it on one person, or you can choose to use it on 5 people. The effectiveness to each affected individual is the same regardless.

Yes, I’m saying exactly that. The anti-zerg mechanics should only be effective on large groups and support small roaming groups. Indeed that is the only good way to fix this.

Kreen.3925:

Stop chasing Kittens Aneu and tell it like it is, drink that 3rd bottle, you know you want to.

Its a megazoid smasher

No, it’s like this. It indeed makes it a lot harder for zergs. But it destroys anything that is not a zerg. So basically now everyone has to zerg and zerging has become harder.

Aneu.1748:

Decked.8274:

Aneu.1748:

Decked.8274:

Aneu.1748:

adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lotus_Poison

This is why some people shouldn’t attempt to post on forum.

Yeah dude, you’re so smart that you didn’t even understood what I was talking about.

I understand that Lotus Poison was usable on Arrowcarts previously but not many people knew it – I’ve had to drink two bottles of wine due to this arrowcart patch. I apologise if my post was overtly kitteny.

He means Lotus Poison was on trebs, don’t worry, it’s the alcohol.

Heijincks.9267:

Caliban.3176:

Heijincks.9267:

The only problem with this is that there is only a couple areas I can think of where a counter treb cannot be countered, but that is a separate issue altogether.

Other than that, why can’t the attackers counter the counter treb then?

But then it is just treb warring back and forth and no more fighting and not everyone can be on the trebs at the same time so it becomes boring. This is not a solution.

In terms of realism, this is proper. Siege in real life can take months before any progress is made.

In terms of battle and WvW itself, keeps/towers aren’t the only objectives available. You’ll still see large scale battles, just not necessarily at keeps/towers (at “worst” case scenario). In other words, you still get what you want.

Don’t bring realism into this, that’s stupid. If it were realistic then my shield of absorption would stop all arrows because arrows are projectiles. Mesmer feedback would destroy anything that Arrowcarts can do. I would like that.

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

Caliban.3176:

On my Guardian I got hit by over 2.1k and I’m semi-Tanky. I don’t have a screenshot but a guildie with similar build does, if you want it: http://i.imgur.com/w0LVRTA.jpg

Halfway proves it, should’ve taken a pic with his stats page open. Because at this point he could in fact be a glass cannon and prove my point. If that really is the case though, the damage is fine (there is nothing else to prevent melee sieging, it sounds like they may need to fix the range though (I’m not in game, but hearing they increased it a ton).

5 points for an increase from 2500 to 3500.

Heijincks.9267:

The only problem with this is that there is only a couple areas I can think of where a counter treb cannot be countered, but that is a separate issue altogether.

Other than that, why can’t the attackers counter the counter treb then?

But then it is just treb warring back and forth and no more fighting and not everyone can be on the trebs at the same time so it becomes boring. This is not a solution.

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

Ruprect.7260:

Maybe a couple AC’s you can heal through. You cannot heal through 6+ AC’s, they kill you and your ram very quickly.

I’m sorry, but why the kitten, are you trying to ram a gate with 6 ACs? That’s seems incredibly kittening stupid, I thought those kinds of people were weeded out in higher tiers :P.

Also, for the 10k damage, prove it. Otherwise I call BS. On a glass cannon maybe.

On my Guardian I got hit by over 2.1k and I’m semi-Tanky. I don’t have a screenshot but a guildie with similar build does, if you want it: http://i.imgur.com/w0LVRTA.jpg

Decked.8274:

Aneu.1748:

adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lotus_Poison

They fixed that in the this patch, so don’t worry about that. Though there are still enough reasons to worry.

Ragnar.4257:

Was this thread a new mini-game released with the patch? Spot the PvDers?

It’s a little easy tbh.

No sarcasm here but I’m not sure what you mean by this.

The ones that hate the patch are very often from guilds who are in it for the fighting and despise zerging and PvDooring.

And the ones that love it say it’ll break the PvDooring.

So basically depending on your personal opinion of the patch you could mean any of either groups.

robocafaz.9017:

They were going to do this like 4 months ago and the community through a complete kitten-fit over it.

Not everyone, I know SFR was counting on it.

Lol Heijincks. If you are saying that small scale stuff now is insignificant then it is very easy to know who the real zergling is.

Before it was very easy to break zergs by using personal skill and effective teamplay. Now all you need is an arrowcart.

Numbers mattered way less than you are giving them credit for.

Heijincks.9267:

Daemonne.5018:

Heijincks.9267:

Ruprect.7260:

Heijincks.9267:

Ruprect.7260:

I am not sure how this will any way break up zergs LOL. So an AC can only kill 50+ but they will not kill 5??? If anything it will just require a larger zerg to take objectives. I cant wait for next week the forums will be :

You created a zerg on my sever because no one could take any keeps anymore unless they had a huge zerg to counter the AC’s.

Who says they cannot kill 5? Arrow carts are effective up to 50. Bigger than 50? Compensate with even more arrow carts. The PvD “tactics” lost viability thus zerging itself lost viability… which is good.

There are also a limit to how big zergs can get thanks to WvW population caps. If defense measures overcompensate, then we could see the end of reckless zerging. If a map-wide zerg is needed to take down one objective, then every other point is undefended which makes it risky to zerg.

Appearantly everyone that wanted this. This is the ZERG buster, I am not sure how? This is the everyone buster LOL. No one will be able to take any towers/keeps. This will do nothing but encourage zerging as the only way to take a tower/keep now is a megazerg.

I’m afraid you missed my point… completely.

If fewer defenders are needed to stop a big zerg, then remaining player resources can be used to capture objectives. The zerging server have to muster up all their player resources to take a single objective which leaves every other objective badly defended, allowing the defending server to take them with less effort.

By definition, that is zerg depromotion. If a mega zerg is built, then chances are the mega zerging server will lose many of their other points to capture one point. The server wouldn’t want that. There’s also a limit to how big a zerg can get as well.

Actually, they’ll only need a couple people to defend what’s theirs as well. It cancels each other out.

Which is good, because in that case the winning server wouldn’t be determined by sheer numbers.

You stopped making sense. Please try again. Try explaining every single aspect of this new patch and how it won’t break the game for me. Explain it to me like you think I’m an idiot, like I’m sure you do.

saiyr.3071:

Caliban.3176:

I’m thinking of moving back to Minesweeper. More skill and action in that game now.

They ruined Minesweeper after they redid it in Vista

They changed a lot of things now in windows 8. There’s dailies you can do and there is an adventure mode.

P.S. 88s on expert (I’m a nub) 32s on medium

Funny really how the people who hate this change often have respectable guilds in their signature. Not at all people who would oppose to mechanics that would break mindless zerging.

Gkitten24:

Soooo..for those of us who are at work..how much do they hurt now?

They hit my tank guardian for more than 2.1k per hit.

Linanthony.1809:

How about instead of resetting every tier randomly, we split it into this-have the 1 and 2 combined, 3 and 4, 5 and 6, 7 and 8 combined and have random matches within all 6 servers in those tiers. Servers would still move up after 3-6 weeks depending on how they go against the other servers and the colors would be picked at random. Because let’s face it, a tier 1 server would stomp a tier 8 one. Thoughts?

Just reset with a week long free transfers.

Actually this bug balances things out a bit. It almost makes up for the ridiculous damage increase.

Lance.5892:

Catastrophin.3928:

Worst WvW Patch ever. Rams are now useless. And every other form of siege as well, because you can’t block shots from mortars or trebuchets any more.
And the only way to win a siege is now if you have the higher position for your trebuchets, otherwise there ist now way to win. Only one Trebuchet for defense you don’t instantly see, because its behind a wall and all your catapults are completly useless.
Great Job Anet

thank you! this post!

EVEN if you enjoy siege wars, without the ability to block treb shots, even the siege game has become one faceted and boring

I think you guys should learn more about siege warfare, now it’s a great opportunity for it.

I’m thinking of moving back to Minesweeper. More skill and action in that game now.

PinCushion.7390:

Silver.9084:

PinCushion.7390:

MethaneGas.8357:

People don’t realise that the enemy won’t be the only one using arrow carts. Some posts I read make me facepalm a million times over and over and over again. As if you won’t be the one that will ALSO have an arrow cart by your side.

And what’s even funnier is that people complain about zergs. Now something comes that will clear out zergs, and people complain about it.

Grow up and develop new strategies, it’s not the end of the world.

Basically this.

What you don’t understand is that PROMOTES zerging. Since there is no way you’re gonna take a keep with 20-30 people! You NEED the zerg’s supplies to “TRY” and take a keep…..

That’s basically an army. I have no problem with huge numbers of people taking keeps. I have a problem with huge numbers of people taking keeps easily but banging on the door for a few seconds. Taking a keep with defenders should be really hard, unless the defenders are completely inept.

Heck, taking an undefended keep just got easier! 30 seconds of uninterrupted wailing on the door as of today! ANet has spoken pretty loud and clear. Defend your keeps or you’re going to lose them.

So you want to zerg? you want 120 people to attack the same keep because there are 5 arrowcarts? (there would probably be WAY more)

ParaldaWind.4523:

Aneu.1748:

With the ability to put 12 arrowcarts on a single door, adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing, increasing arrowcarts damage by 80%, with arrowcarts being so easily built with such small amount of supply required and increasing the time within which bleed stays on you from a cart… how do you think this is a positive addition to WvW?

I cant even … Im utterly dumbfounded at why someone at arenanet would think this is a good idea…

You can put three on the west inner as well that will hit outer, so make that 15.

Don’t forget, they have increased range now so it probably is closer to 20.

Agreed because I know how much Wrex is in pain. She (and the rest of IRON deserve better).

MagnusLL.8473:

Caliban.3176:

You’re missing the point. These guilds attack keeps not because they want to but because they need to to get the fights going.

That’s the problem though. You’re looking for a 20 vs 20 deathmatch battle in a game situation which was very clearly designed with completely different goals in mind.

No I’m not. I’m looking for a game where there are objectives that add an extra dimension to fights. Not a game where the objectives become an excuse to avoid fights.

Lance.5892:

Lady Po Wang Dabang.1394:

excellent update, anything that causes problems for mindless farming zergs has to be good

mindless farming zergs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsdlBjm79dQ

If this is apparently mindless, the entire hardcore team pvp community is about to leave the game.

Hardcore players used to like challenges. But now attacking keeps is too hard, and you will all quit, something seems wrong here.

Challenges are what it is all about but the it should be on a level playingfield. This arrowcart buff just killed that.

You’re missing the point. These guilds attack keeps not because they want to but because they need to to get the fights going. Now they have taken the fights out of siegeing entirely. No more people near gates, only trebs and cata’s to hit eachother and arrowcarts as deterrants.

Someone else just said that attacking a tower should take hours. Can’t completely disagree with that but as it is now those would be actionless hours. Just trebshots going back and forth.

Ophidian.9043:

No need to defend anymore, because no one will bother attacking you anymore either. Problem?

Good one!

FractalChaos.6539:

Caliban.3176:

Defenders have no advantage?

You can go in and out of the portal killing attackers and come back inside to safety and heal. There are plenty of smart placements for siege where you have an advantage (cliffside has awesome spots for example). You can buff up and use all your skills while the people down there are on rams or attacking the gate and have some stuff on cooldown. You can portalbomb and bait them. You can let them in and kill them in the choke and then repair the gate.

I’ll grant you this though. In an idiotzerg vs idiotzerg situation the attackers have the advantage. But should a game cater to idiottactics?

You can go in and out of the portal killing attackers and come back inside to safety and heal.
Assuming I don’t die the moment I poke my nose out (because of the 30 people standing right there who want to kill me), yes, I can do that. Doesn’t help my keep as attackers will still be taking down the door at range, and that player I killed will be insta-rezzed by his zerg. I had zero effect on the outcome and the keep will still fall.

There are plenty of smart placements for siege where you have an advantage (cliffside has awesome spots for example). Cliffside is well loved for this very reason. It’s easy to defend. It’s also the exception that proves the rule. There are 2 keeps, a garrison, and 3 other towers where standing on the walls is pretty much a death trap.

You can buff up and use all your skills while the people down there are on rams or attacking the gate and have some stuff on cooldown. It is impossible to attack anyone from the walls unless you stand on the very edge. Unfortunately, that means they can hit you, too (and use Scorpion Wire, Spectral Grasp, that wrench #5 that I love, or the Mesmer pull to drag you down and filet you). Where is the advantage to the defenders here? And what about the 15 friends behind the ram operators, all shooting at the same gate with pistols, bows, rifles, scepters and staves? Will they continue to attack the gate while I go out and butcher those manning the rams?

*You can portalbomb and bait them. *
How is that an advantage for the defenders again?

You can let them in and kill them in the choke and then repair the gate.
How is that an advantage for the defenders again? You’ve been breached. Your defense failed. Baiting a zerg and then killing it can be done at supply camps, open field, keeps, towers…it’s not specific to a siege defense scenario.

Here’s the bottom line; in a siege, 5 people in a fully fortified keep with ample siege weaponry and supplies SHOULD have a better than 50-50 chance of holding off 15 or 20 people. Siege weaponry is what’s known as a force multiplier; five average people with pocket knives versus 15 people with machetes are in deep trouble. Put those same 5 average people behind a concrete wall and give them each a gattling gun (ac) and those 15 people with machetes SHOULD melt and die. That’s how it’s supposed to be.

Ok.
If you die immediately when you poke out you are doing it wrong. You can choose where you go out (either portal or jump from wall) they are standing at 1 place and have to react, you can act. That is an advantage. The people you kill should not be instarezzed because then you are not putting the right amount of pressure on the right places. (with smart arrowcart placement (even before they were OP))

Buffing up and killing them was not meant to happen from on the wall, that would be kitten you should actually go out and kill them all (kill them all). Try it, it works.

Portalbombing is an advantage because again you can act, it is just an extreme version of choosing where you jump down. It is a HUGE advantage.

You are right, defending should have a better chance but the balance (which already favors defenders) is completely gone.

I’ll repeat this:
“I’ll grant you this though. In an idiotzerg vs idiotzerg situation the attackers have the advantage. But should a game cater to idiottactics?”

Mif.3471:

How dare they do something to slow down zergers WXP farming.

It hits zergs hard, this is true but it kills anything below 15 as well. So basically they made zerging a lot harder but destroy any other way to do something.

Kolisch.4691:

Those 3 will be useless once intelligent people (not the stupid zerg that goes omg we can’t stand in this circle, we’re doomed!) start putting a catapult far from the arrow carts.

Lol, 15 points in the rank ability line and you have a huge range increase for Arrow Carts. Many good cata spots will become useless as well.

FractalChaos.6539:

Zumos.2056:

FractalChaos.6539:

Aneu.1748:

Draygo.9473:

Its designed to kill your zerg, make things defensible against zergs.

Maybe come up with new strategies?

also arrow carts 1-2-3-4 are deathtraps for operators against people that know what they are doing. There is nothing to stop an attacking force to simply pull the operators off the walls.

Then just re-build the arrowcarts and rinse repeat with your 2k x 12 damage per second with the -33% heal that the poison gives you thus making defence far more overpowered than attack.

Speaking as someone who, since launch, has been saying that attackers had every single advantage during a siege (and they did), I welcome this change. Those of us who like fighting over an objective, who like the push-and-pull of a protracted siege over the 30 second zerg v zerg routs in open field…well, it’s our turn now.

If you think offensive side has an advantage, then you’re probably so bad you think you always had a disadvantage. With the portal you can run in and out, you have the walls to stand on. You have an huge defensive advantage, if you are actually able to kill the enemy.

Who has the advantage in a siege…

1- Defender on the wall, who can be pulled or melted by AoE, or attacker on the ground who can ignore the pitiful (old) siege weaponry of the defenders?

2- Defenders on the wall, whose arrow carts and ballistas will vanish in the first few seconds of a siege under an apocalyptic downpour of meteor storms, arrows, grenades, engineer crates, Mesmer phantasms and necro marks, or the attackers outside who can destroy EVERY PIECE OF SIEGE GEAR MEANT TO DEFEND AGAINST THEM?

3- Defenders inside the keep, who cannot repair the gate because of the insane stacked AoE damage that will instakill them if they stay there for more than 3 seconds, or the attackers who can stand there on the rams with no siege to attack them (see #2).

Seriously, the ongoing tearing out of hairs over this change…it’s a thing of beauty.

Defenders have no advantage?

You can go in and out of the portal killing attackers and come back inside to safety and heal. There are plenty of smart placements for siege where you have an advantage (cliffside has awesome spots for example). You can buff up and use all your skills while the people down there are on rams or attacking the gate and have some stuff on cooldown. You can portalbomb and bait them. You can let them in and kill them in the choke and then repair the gate.

I’ll grant you this though. In an idiotzerg vs idiotzerg situation the attackers have the advantage. But should a game cater to idiottactics?

Zumos.2056:

You don’t get longer fight by increasing AC damage. You would get longer fights by inceasing gate HP or letting siege deal less damage.

Well Zumos, while I generally agree with you on these changes, I would not increase gate HP. If the structure HP goes down then going out to defend becomes more important and you can no longer wait for the blob to come save you.

You could read Aneu’s post about it, I know several of your guildies have already.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Boredom-Reduction-Playstyle-Balance

PsychoticWaltz.1768:

Pavel.5192:

Aneu, in different thread you have written, you want to longer fights and now you are complaining here about arrow carts. i think it will prolongate fights, cause you will have to build more sieges like trebuchets and catas and protect them, you cant do easy ram rush now
no offense

Yes exactly: fights! Not siege wars.

Building siege is not fighting. These are different things Aneu is saying but they all work towards the same goal.

Johje Holan.4607:

Caliban.3176:

Johje Holan.4607:

Isn’t VOTF one of the best guilds in the game? I’ve seen threads complimenting you all on your skill and I think you’ve been said to be one of the toughest guilds to fight in the game.

So… what your guild can or cannot do is not a good barometer to measure against.

Thanks for the compliment but that’s not the point. It’s about the numbers.

But you have to consider that your 30 guildies is not equal to 30 players. If there were an attacking force of equal skill it wouldn’t take as many.

I play WvW a lot too. I’ve been in NA T1 and fallen down to T5. And it may be different up there now but from what I remember it has always been easier to attack than to defend.

I’ll admit, I do like defending. That’s why I like this change. I believe it will make for more interesting fights and sieges.

I already said it was very hard before taking a T3 keep that was defended even with my guild. The thing is that keeps have indeed always been easy to cap (I believe many of us have seen the video of the going doing it solo). But if it is defended by people who know what they are doing (just a little bith) it is extremely harder and they just made it even easier for them. The balance is completely gone.

Undefended keep: easy to take, no challenge
Defended keep: Extremely hard to take, promotes massive blobbing

Johje Holan.4607:

Isn’t VOTF one of the best guilds in the game? I’ve seen threads complimenting you all on your skill and I think you’ve been said to be one of the toughest guilds to fight in the game.

So… what your guild can or cannot do is not a good barometer to measure against.

Thanks for the compliment but that’s not the point. It’s about the numbers.

Johje Holan.4607:

Well sure, if your 30 man guild defends then it should be hard to take. That has nothing to do with the argument about whether defense is in general harder than offense.

Read between the lines pls. If it takes 100+ to take a T3 keep defended by 30 players then defence was already easier than offence. Now with the stronger arrowcarts it is going to be almost impossible to take a defended keep. It was already practically undoable with that same 30 man guild.

Johje Holan.4607:

Zumos.2056:

FractalChaos.6539:

Aneu.1748:

Draygo.9473:

Its designed to kill your zerg, make things defensible against zergs.

Maybe come up with new strategies?

also arrow carts 1-2-3-4 are deathtraps for operators against people that know what they are doing. There is nothing to stop an attacking force to simply pull the operators off the walls.

Then just re-build the arrowcarts and rinse repeat with your 2k x 12 damage per second with the -33% heal that the poison gives you thus making defence far more overpowered than attack.

Speaking as someone who, since launch, has been saying that attackers had every single advantage during a siege (and they did), I welcome this change. Those of us who like fighting over an objective, who like the push-and-pull of a protracted siege over the 30 second zerg v zerg routs in open field…well, it’s our turn now.

If you think offensive side has an advantage, then you’re probably so bad you think you always had a disadvantage. With the portal you can run in and out, you have the walls to stand on. You have an huge defensive advantage, if you are actually able to kill the enemy.

Now I suspect you’re just arguing to argue Zumos. No one can seriously argue that defenders have the advantage in WvW. It’s so kitten easy to take even a fully upgraded structure its rediculous.

If my 30 man guild decides to defend a T3 keep it already was impossible to take with anything less than 100 ppl. It’s very easy to take something that is underdefended.

itsmee.7536:

Teel.9036:

In T1 when we fought Vizunah blobs they would put down ballistas everywhere in the open when they saw us (spread shot..), I suppose now they’ll start dropping arrow carts as well.

Ouch!

@Caliban: you make a good point, however I just want to be the devil’s advocate here and say that some people actually enjoy defending against larger groups, and reducing HP on walls/gates might make it impossible.

I agree and actually that would help because we all know that with a little organisation and some teamplay it is not hard to kill 1.5X to 2X your own numbers (provided there is no skillag so no groups over 50) in this game. So now people can still defend against larger forces and they will have to because they no longer have the luxury to wait for the big zerg to arrive.

greyblue.4962:

Never seen this before this organized but what Aneu suggested would destroy that tactic. It would no be efficient for any group over 30 to run together because there are too many things to do at once. This would destroy your zergball problem.

How would it destroy this? They can always split into two balls of 50, and it currently only takes them about 45 minutes to “cycle” the map.

They would need to split up in at least 3 groups and preferably 5 or more if you read the suggestion that was posted. And 50 players is no longer a problem. You can kill that with 30 players and experience no skillag. You’re problem just got solved.

You calculate time to cycle a map but it sounds like there is no opposition on that map.