Guild Wars 2

I forgot to mention that I was in one of the busiest servers, where roaming is usually pointless and zerging is highly encouraged. Anyone who “roams” for fun is usually seen as not contributing during server resets. To actually make sure that I was at the top of my game, I actually created a calculation system to serve my own purpose and had repeatedly confirm my observations in GvGs and practical field battles in WvW.

While I am certainly not an elite player, I am very confident in my calculation system (although it might be seriously outdated now because of 2 major changes) and the strategies that I had came up with using it. Well, it’s all in the past and there’s really nothing else to talk about.

A top level GvG right now has no real place for a thief and even if there is, it is seriously limited to an elite player who doesn’t make mistakes in his skill set. An ordinary player like myself will not be able to do that, so I retired.

but gvg/zerging isnt all wvw is about. Its more efficient to have some of your resources (players) spread around the map taking multiple objectives at once, spawn-camping and demoralizing enemy servers, etc. than it is to have one giant zerg. As a thief I can solo take camps as good as any class, and if I get discovered by an enemy zerg I can escape easily and warn my server of their position. To me, solo-capping a camp is more valuable than that one extra guy in a zerg that probably didny have a direct impact on whether it was a winning or losing fight. If zerging is your thing thief isnt a great choice, but there is a lot more to wvw than that ( i play on FA, pretty busy server). If zerging gvg is your thing, I cant stress enough: NECRO. piercing life blasts doing 20k total damage per in zergs, nuff said

Roll a dgger thief, a full power Longbow ranger, a shatter mesmer. or a scepter elementalist.. They can all pump out extremely high single target damage, so it is a matter of what style you prefer. I recommend ele, mesmer or thief if you want a challenge. For easy mode, roll ranger. For aoe damage, staff ele or necromancer.

Celestial engi broken AF

LoneWolfie.1852:

After quitting for 6 months and coming back to check up on what the devs come up with, it’s another round of nerfs and bad balancing for thief and some other professions as usual. I hold no expectations for whatever content they have and will continue to abstain from this terrible game. Maybe when they finally learn how to balance it better I can come back and have fun.

And I’m glad to know that people understand thieves are useless in wvw (I participated in GvGs to know the class better) now other than a gimmicky annoyance. Everything that I predicted for thief back then came true, making me realize the devs are most likely never going to fix the class because they don’t know how to.

useless in WvW? Maybe in mindless zergs. But a single roaming thief can harass, annoy, distract a much larger group, making it a net gain for your server. They are great at kill people semi close to spawn. This is also a huge boon, because usually when someone get wrecked 3 times in 15 minutes trying to catch up with his group, he’ll log out and not WvW for a few days- another net gain for your server.

Thieves are totally awesome in WvW. if pvp is your main thing though OP than stay away from thief.

thief in WvW: Possibly best class? easily most fun, if WvW is your main game mode you’ be crazy to not have a thief. If wvw zerging is your thing- POWER NECRO

in pvp: Possibly worstest? the pvp game mode conquest discourages stealth usage which is our main form of defense. Roll engi if you want to obtain a high in rate easily.

crit strikes does more damage but panic strike is panic strike. Revealed training is so much worse (for pvp/wvw) than panic strike IMO.

I prefer the deadly arts build

Hey dude, cool build! I started using a new setup for S/D last night for WvW, and it is similar to yours. Mine is 0/6/2/6/0. as much as I love “Mug” + poison on steal, I need the condition cleanse in shadow arts. Thieves have pretty miserable condi clear so I think 2 points is a good investment for this, recommend you try this if conditions are giving you trouble.

I would switch up your critical strikes line; I like executioner (though I’ve been using invigorating precision), but I would switch the other two:

you don’t need side strike because you already have 60% crit chance, you’d probably be better off with invigorating precision, or if insistent on damage- signets of power (even with only 1 signet, I think the 5 might is better than 7% crit from behind/side when you already have 60%).

Signet use is a decent trait, even with only infiltrators signet, but I much prefer quickening haste and I think you will too if you try it. The 2s of quickness reallyyy add to my burst damage.

I like your acrobatics traits, I’m switching between assassin’s equilibrium and assassin’s reward. everybody talks down on assassin’s equilibrium, but the 2 seconds feels longer in battle and has saved me a few times. Most deaths seem to start with some sort of crowd control, so I like this trait, although assassins reward is OK too.

overall nice build, but I definitely recommend you try those critical strikes traits I mentioned (especially critical haste), and the shadow arts traits instead of mug if you feel you need more condi removal.

also. sigil air > sigil of force or fire. Personally I would swap your force out for air, but if you really like force than at least switch fire for air. air is only single target, but its higher damage and procs every 3 seconds instead of every 5. Definitely ditch sigil of intelligence on your bow as well. with your crit chance 2/3 shots will likely crit anyway. I would replace with sigil of: air, bloodlust, energy or ice. ice if you like to kite.

as far as gear I would switch a valk or zerker peice or two for knight/cavalier pieces. 1.9k toughness is a bit low,, and 60% crit is very high o you can definitely afford to switch a couple Zerk pieces. also Rune of Pack/Vampirism > Rune of eagle. If you have gold and dont mind dropping pain response for might on dodge, strength runes are great choice as well. However eagle aren’t that bad an arent a huge part of your stats so dont worry about runes until last.

also given our sword #2 skill, I would take signet of agility instead of infiltrators signet, though both are good options. free endurance bar every 30 seconds is OP, with 180 precision when off CD

RyuDragnier.9476:

T raw.4658:

That much damage at that speed and at that range is broken.

No one has a problem with rangers doing 13k damage in 1-2 seconds, but doing that much damage from 1.5k plus range is bad for the game.

I’m amused by the rangers who are defending this tooth and nail though. I’ll be even more amused when the “adjustment” comes

<Edit>

Some videos showcasing the problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnzC3FnWXIo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc6LZTwamPI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD1BZlyE_s8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zofVCaXErQo

I lol’d…a thief main complaining that somebody else can do damage equal to backstab from far range, and while burning through almost all utilities. Thief can do that damage from close range without burning through utilities, and pull it off over and over faster than a Ranger can, and with more odds of success.

So tell me…how does this move equal OP when compared to other burst moves that are 1 shot? Because with the existence of thieves and warriors doing close/long range ganks all the time respectfully, another class being able to do it while having most of said burst dodged or thrown back directly into their face is not anywhere near OP in this game.

u routinely backstab guardians for 13k? Signet burst build?

also, backstab should do more damage than rapid fire, not less

RyuDragnier.9476:

T raw.4658:

That much damage at that speed and at that range is broken.

No one has a problem with rangers doing 13k damage in 1-2 seconds, but doing that much damage from 1.5k plus range is bad for the game.

I’m amused by the rangers who are defending this tooth and nail though. I’ll be even more amused when the “adjustment” comes

<Edit>

Some videos showcasing the problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnzC3FnWXIo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc6LZTwamPI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD1BZlyE_s8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zofVCaXErQo

I lol’d…a thief main complaining that somebody else can do damage equal to backstab from far range, and while burning through almost all utilities. Thief can do that damage from close range without burning through utilities, and pull it off over and over faster than a Ranger can, and with more odds of success.

So tell me…how does this move equal OP when compared to other burst moves that are 1 shot? Because with the existence of thieves and warriors doing close/long range ganks all the time respectfully, another class being able to do it while having most of said burst dodged or thrown back directly into their face is not anywhere near OP in this game.

u routinely backstab guardians for 13k? Signet burst build?

also, backstab should do more damage than rapid fire, not less. Not saying they should nerf RF, but if they don’t they gotta buff backstab by about 6k. Its one or the other

Just revert that stupid crit damage nerf. This will make berserkers a lot stronger which is necessary because celestial kittens all over it. The crit damage nerf is a big reason everybody is celestial

I’m experiencing the same thing, but mostly with infiltrators signet, it happens with steal too, but a much higher rate on infiltrators signet On both CnD and especially backstabs.

Travesty.8237:

Hi folks!

I understand p/p is a bad idea for wvwvw. But for some reason I still want to try it.

I’ve whipped up a build, linked below. It seems to look OK to me on paper.

Could someone please let me know where it falls down?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQJAqalsMp8pdPxzJsPNBPBtdCOQA4sETwzS3EA

Thanks for your opinions!

I would definitely move 2 from shadow arts and move to trickery for hastened replenishment. I always take this trait for p/p because I think withdraw is mandatory and I burn through initiative on p/p a lot faster than any other set. I also use the utility haste with this for maximum damage output

Josh Davis.6015:

I listened to the entire VoD, I think this might be an opportune moment to mention that I will be enforcing the Guild Wars 2 Code of Conduct for the World Tournament Series at my own discretion, including punishments that can result in a player or entire team being ineligible to participate in a single or multiple World Tournament Series Events.

If you know who I am or how I’ve gotten to where I am today, you’ll know that I’m very passionate about Guild Wars 2 PvP, and I’m excited to finally be in a position to help drive a project like the World Tournament Series forward. Having been on both sides of the player/dev fence, I know that what we’re trying to do with the WTS is going to be a communal effort – meaning I’ll need your help just as much as you’ll need mine.

The first part of moving this project forward is to start treating your fellow teammates, competitors, and players with the respect they deserve. The World Tournament Series and all the associated events should be an exercise in community building and education, with new and veteran players alike getting interested, whether they’re participating or not. Players in the WTS effectively represent Guild Wars 2 as a whole, and toxicity will not be allowed to be a part of that.

So please, take this as a friendly reminder – you should always treat your fellow players in a decent manner, and in accordance with the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement and Code of Conduct. If you’re planning on playing competitively in the WTS, community events, or otherwise, you will be under additional scrutiny.

We will be releasing legal documentation on the World Tournament Series in the coming weeks, but if you have any questions in the meantime, feel free to contact me or create a thread on these forums.

Thanks!

Being nice to people is something our parents are supposed to teach us, please work on improving the game instead of people’s morals! Please post something in the Skyhammer topic., it’s nearing 1500 posts while nobody actually cares about ferox and sharks.

Thanks!

spirit watch is just as bad. half my teams ignore orb and still don’t understand that scoring it in your own base is worth double. Odd how they take the two worst maps out of team q but leave them in solo. Why not remove them from both? I know you worked really kitten them, but sorry- they’re utter failures. You know what else is a complete failure? The language filter on this forums, “h@rd” was blanked out, why?

I would be nice to get some dev thoughts on the topic. They’re posting in kitten topic about teams not being nice to eachother on teamspeak, but cant give us any thought on this topic, which is nearing 1500 posts.

Lamuness.3570:

Wait a minute, I think everyone’s assuming I’m talking about Black Powder Shot (BPS). Not thief Offhand Pistol 5, I’m talking about Blinding Powder (BP). LOL Yes, I know if I shoot someone with 5, a projectile comes out as well as a field gets dropped. Since when does pressing 5 give me stealth other than blasting or leaping thru it?

I’m talking about I use my 7 utility skill even while auto attack cast time is starting, I will get insta-revealed. The same thing happened before when I would want to trigger Shadow Trap while I’m auto attacking. So this being the case, if you’re telling me that I have to untarget first, and then hit blinding powder, it sounds like a work around because again, stealthing stops every other auto attack.

ctrl+click on your 1 skill and turn auto attack off. as a thief you need to attack manually or getting insta-revealed will happen often. It’s working as intended, turn it off and you will feel much more in control, no need to untarget

Christof.9618:

I slopped together a trapping build yesterday and dueled a few people in EBG. My build wasn’t even a proper condi build (I had carrion gear for the most part with soldier’s coat) and I won nearly every duel I was in. If I lost one, I asked for a repeat and promptly won. I felt like a god. It’s hilarious to use the immob and knockdown traps on thieves trying to backstab, and the speed boost plus stealth is OP, imo. I’m on my phone, so I can’t look up traits, but I had gain might on dodge and on stealth traited, which lead to me having around 10 stacks most of the time whilst fighting. Awesome new option for the thief. I hope it stays rare because I want to keep running it without people knowing how to counter haha.

For duels if you want a laugh venomshare + thieves guild + ambush trap. all you need is the torment venom (torment runes probably work better) and yea I think they’ll stay exclusive for a little while because you need to craft to 400 just to use them. I went from 0-400 in leather-working just for these runes (paid 11.5g for recipe now its 50s lol).

Which traps do you use? torn between ambush or shadowtrap. The two that I always use are tripwire + needle trap. Tripwire is my favorite, and use needle trap because shortest cd. Maybe Ill drop needletrap for ambush/shadowtrap.

AikijinX.6258:

Prioritizes Stability first then Aegis. Was this ninja’d? I haven’t noticed?

I must’ve been getting blocked and didn’t realize it, or it was just buggy. I shouldve tested it more before making a topic,just worked 4/5 times in a hotjoin, the time it didnt work I think was a general steal bug because I didnt see block int he combat log (though aegis was gone, probably ffrom another source)

Klonko.8341:

I’m certainly adventuring in dangerous zone here… but what about a shadow refuge nerf?I mean everybody cry over thief excess stealth. But I don’t think their strenght is there…

The real pain is Thief continuous reset ability. And what allow it? -> shadow refuge…

I cant count the number of time I dueled Thief and they shadow refuge 5 to 10 times in a duel… And they finally get a lucky strike and win the duel… If the thief is playing badly he should be punished by not having a panic button ready to save his kitten every 45 sec.

You would say it would be the end of thief right? No, I would gladly revert lots of unneeded change for this. Thief should go in the line with all those zerker profession and not stay low risk high reward profession. You may say it is high risk high reward… but except maybe warrior (not so sure on after patch warrior), thief is the easiest zerker profession.

If you play badly you will loose badly, like all other profession…

I’m just trying to get the thief community opinion on this as I know alot of thief that dislike relying on this skill to be sucessful.

Finally, I don’t want to frustrate anybody about this, I’m just seeking the general thief opinion about that.

NOTE: WHEN I SAY ZERKER I WANT TO SAY VALK/ZERKER FOCUS WITH LITTLE TO NO TOUGHNESS!

NOTE: I APOLOGIZE FOR THE GRAMMAR/ORTHOGRAPHY AS IT’S NOT MY PRIMARY LANGUAGE

Its a 60 second cooldown. So you have 45 – 50 seconds to kill someone, if you don’t they deserve a reset, and most classes have a good reset mechanic and can escape a 1v1. If they cant, I bet they’re better at team fighting. also, its never a guaranteed reset, you can get knocked out of it and damaged while in the refuge. It is rather powerful, and not out of line to bring it up a OP, but with reveal being a lot more abundant I dont think SR needs a change

exii.8913:

tl;dr
Just read the first and last post.

ghaleon.2861:

ghaleon.2861:

But back on topic, The only zerker spec that shuts down a thief is “Medi Guard”.

Then NERF “Meditation Guardian” cos thief has no chance against that build. As you said every zerker spec should have a chance to equally fight vs other zerker specs right?

I must agree to this.
As a native thief player I tried a lot a variations against guards and the last 6 months became pain in the * for me when facing a zerk guard.
On an obejective view the guard has the right skills to block just every attack for a viable period of time while the class has some leaps and gap closer combined with some skill which are strong enough to kill an opponent very quick.
And since Flanking Strike dont work anymore in the way it did before the S/D type became even more worthless against guardian as before. I personally think that this nerf was a wrong move. I wouldnt have a problem with it if I need to land a hit on a target to proc it but its an enormous problem that a block doesnt count as hit. I usally push the “3” 2 times in a row to land Larcenous Strike very quick but now I just would waste 8 initiative for nothing.
All I can do is to play on D/P and try to annoy them a bit but thats all. The chance to beat a guard which has the same high skill level like you is about 0.

Also Im playing S/D ele on a cheap 6 6 0 0 2 spec from time to time and often beat the **** out of them in a case where both player of the duelist getting a sneaky opening.

Don’t forget about the huge bountiful theft ninja-nerf. It use to prioritize aegis, now it never does. Steal is 95% uselessss vs guardians, which sucks when you invest like 8 traits in stealing. Even without this medi guards would still be borderline impossible. Use to prioritize stability too, which is questionable balance i the first place, but BT not prioritizing aegis is bullkitten, given how much access to aegis they get, and that we spend 4 points just for bountiful theft once per steal. The entirety of steal doesn’t even work if aegis is on. This isnt as big of a deal for d/p (though still big) as they could just headshot them to proc aegis, but its just another reason to NOT use S/D

Cynz.9437:

ghaleon.2861:

Kolly.9872:

ghaleon.2861:

But back on topic, The only zerker spec that shuts down a thief is “Medi Guard”.

Then NERF “Meditation Guardian” cos thief has no chance against that build. As you said every zerker spec should have a chance to equally fight vs other zerker specs right?

but ppl don’t use dps guard in tpvp , a serious team doesn’t…

but but but srs teams run only celestial bunker now not thieves

bingo… and we all know how thieves (anybody really) fair against celestial bunkers

Sagat.3285:

DeceiverX.8361:

I’ve played P/D. It’s an extremely low-skill build with very few weaknesses only amplified by the aforementioned perplex runes. Condition duration food isn’t even something to consider seeing as -duration food offsets it more than if neither players have +/- food.

Simply put the kiting potential is absolutely absurd seeing as it also applies huge torment numbers with extreme ease before even considering the bleeding.

If Shadow Strike didn’t net so much of a gap-opener while dealing so much damage I wouldn’t have too many problems with the build.

Any player with a decent brain shouldn’t lose to a p/d you may not kill him but if you die to a p/d you need to rethink your way of fighting. Farming baddies is what got the build popular.

The heavy reliance on melee stealth to survive is a major one already. The major mistake people do is wait when the thief disengage for an extended period,if you don’t know how to negate sneak attack you should go back to pvp practice. If the spec was so strong it wouldn’t need all 3 utilities to be defensive ones at least we can use traps now.

Except Krait or trapper runes with Bewildering ambush is better than perplexity + SoH. The only reliable interrupt on the set, unless running scorpion with is the SoH on steal. So your basically trading 45% bleed duration +6 set bonus or the trap runes bonuses for a 1s daze every 21 seconds at best.

I’m using trapper runes with triple trap utilities and I feel like a god. P/D isn’t overpowered. Dire gear probably is though.

If P/D is OP though, the most OP thing about it is Uncatchable + feline grace…. Huge cripple and 1k bleed on dodge? lolllll

“But I always perform, it’s what I do. And I don’t have to play a turret engi like you to perform well. But thx for the love <3, I do appreciate it. "

Everyone has bad games bro, its OK. all I ask is when others aren’t performing well, don’t semi-afk and whine about it in chat all game, that’s all.

“But back on topic, The only zerker spec that shuts down a thief is “Medi Guard”. The thief is King of all Zerkers specs after that. That proves to me right there that you don’t have a single clue of what you’re talking about. The other problem that we have in the current meta is that, Tanky Dps vs Zerker Dps it’s not balanced at all. Which means that as a glass cannon, if I make a mistake I can die. But that’s not the case with tanky dps spec, they’re more forgiven and can make more mistakes and still perform extremely well. With celestial amulet and the might stacks, they’re too strong vs any zerker spec, not only vs thieves."

I agree with almost everything here. while thieves may have the best matchups vs zerker classes (medi gaurd only zerk spec that 100% shuts it down), they are higher risk/similar reward in team fights. yea perhaps they are the best vs zerker its not as drastic as you make it out to be, and it doesn’t make them more valuable to a team than a shatter mesmer.

Bottom line tanky spec do relatively too much damage compared any zerk spec in my opinion and if they reverted the kitten ferocity change things would be a lot better

“but right now the thief can easily shut down every single zerker spec.”

not if they’re good

ghaleon.2861:

Cam Ron.4170:

Oh, its onesixty the biggest solo q rager I’ve ever seen. Sorry to tell you, but thieves aren’t very strong right now. You were on my team getting 1v1’d constantly by them yesterday though, so this post is aumsing

Oh hi there hater, stop creating drama, because you’re still kitten about me always destroying you. And I was never getting 1v1 by anyone, I always get 2v1. But thx for the love hater, " Your hate is making greater each and everyday" <3

LOL, “hater” such a juvenile word. and yes I do hate ragers in video games, especially when they don’t perform and they’re on my team.

Back on topic zerk in general should be buffed. Revert crit damage changes. Vs a shatter its whoever gets a jump on the other guy first, d/p thieves have slight advantage because they can stealth from far away. Mesmer can fight any non-zerker class more safely than a thief can

Oh, its onesixty the biggest solo q rager I’ve ever seen. Sorry to tell you, but thieves aren’t very strong right now. You were on my team getting 1v1’d constantly by them yesterday though, so this post is aumsing

vs a team comp idk, but 1v1 power necro with corrupt boon does great vs ele

I feel like might-stacking is the real problem. I could be wrong on that I don’t know what the culprit is, but I agree that it’s too efficient to build for both sustain and damage compared to specializing in one or the other.

Ameno.6813:

As an Engi main I totally agree about our class being face roll. But that only applies for IP, and turrets, and the stupidly OP elite. Granted all our other elites are terrible so you can’t really blame Engis for taking that.

This guy gets it

YourFriendMarvin.4127:

, but you can’t say it is the most faceroll to play compared to the other professions and passive mechanics.

you’d be insane to suggest otherwise. Who else has can self-stack 20+ might constantly with the pre-nerf dumbfire on a master trait?

Well, challenge is open to anyone- decap me in 60 seconds while I beat off alt+tabbed in a different window… That includes you robertful.

In this thread: Engi mains: "Guys engineer is so hard we have so many buttons to press. Incendiary powder is balanced and takes skill. also, other classes stack might harder, and supply crate is noob skill but I still take it every game, even though it only affects noobs. "

every single non-engi: “Engineers are easy-mode and take no skill”

I still use wurm + valk. If using valk armor pieces + hidden killer wurm will out-damage evasion and give a ton of vitality

twojackson.5607:

Why do people complain about things that are difficult? Its realistic, if you’re fighting high up in the air, you need to make sure not to get knocked off. If any map needs changing its Spirit Watch. You can’t mix cap n def with ctf.

Yea spirit watch is terrible, its worse than skyhammer. I hate that for the same reason though, the “seconary” objective is way too prominent.

zaced.7948:

Relentliss.2170:

zaced.7948:

Cam Ron.4170:

Should the game be balanced around the top tier of play, or around what 98% of players experience?

top tier ofc, no question.

98% of the players would likely disagree.

98% of the players don’t matter in competitive play.

We’re talking solo-q, not E-sportz. and if competitive play was based around 1v1 holding a point, turret engi would be the clear cut #1 OP build. That is why they thrive in chaotic solo-q

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Care to make a wager frand! Say 500g and when I win, you have to stop posting on these forums! If you can do it on a thief I give you gold

Wahoo! Bye frands!

EDIT: Also you complain about turret Engis and you don’t even know their builds and how they work! Now that’s just thilly!

Yea sure if I lose I’ll stop posting, Kappa. You have 60 seconds to decap. What build you going for?

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Cam Ron seems to really hate turret Engis! But not in the way that Vee Wee hates them! Vee Wee hates them because Vee Wee loves all Engineer players and it just pains Vee Wee to see them run terrible builds! Cam Ron thinks these builds are actually good and goes around to every single subforum to post about how OP they are! Seems like a player skill issue!

Vee Wee remembers demolishing a Thief as a Gadget Engi! He called Vee Wee the biggest cheese! Cam Ron reminds me of this Thief player! Also never try to insult people by calling them the big cheese! It has the opposite meaning of what you’re trying to convey!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

You couldn’t 1v1 my turret engi off of a point on a non engi and I’ve played engi twice in my life. Ill roll one and look up a build now, get a nonengi try to get me off a point, Ill even beat off during it.

Tell me, as a thief how would you decap a turret engi?

Maybe turret engi isnt as viable in organized high level play with TS where being mobile is more important, but in unorganized solo Q it is really strong and easy.

Should the game be balanced around the top tier of play, or around what 98% of players experience?

The Cross Killer.2854:

Cam Ron.4170:

vincecontix.1264:

Cam Ron.4170:

vincecontix.1264:

Because turret engi can carry bad players pretty hard. While turret engi is not op it can perform on par with others players playing there class ok, even if the turret engi is terribad.

If you notice what spec of engi most players are playing its turrets 3xkit engi take far more effort to play. Most players that play spvp are not good, even though 3xkit engi can potentially outperform turret engi you still see a lot more turret specs.

In some case I have tried to talk to turret engi about kits and other skill and there are totally oblivious. I know turret spec is not good at higher level of play but idk it might be a bit to rewarding for effort invested.

except even non-turret specs are faceroll too. Does it require more effort than turret engi? Sure I guess you may need to open your eyes once or twice, but it’s almost hard to lose if you’re playing engi verses any other class. They get freaking dumbfire (IP) as a master trait, is that a joke?

If you don’t think engi is faceroll, you probably main engineer. and their elite is super-balanced in conquest, definitely.

Well some of current meta builds are: Celestial dd ele/staff, War hambow/Axebow, Mesmer shatter(condi is this meta yet?), Guard support bunker/med, Ranger zerker lb/spirit, Necro condi terrimancer/power nec, thief dp/sd.

Do you really think the above specs are that hard to play? Multi kit engi require more effort to play than majority of current meta builds. Also they are hard countered by necro, they have 2 massive weakness cc and condi. Engi trying to perfom at warrior level have to work much harder. They also slighty out performed by eles which are more mobile and have less weakness, in alot of cases they fill similar roles (depends on build).

I’ve yet to lose on engi just mashing random buttons, can’t say the same about other classes.

To play an engineer perfectly sure its not easy. Its not easy to play anything perfectly.

My point is that an engineer played at 20% effecitiveness si stronger than a thief or any other class at 90% effectiveness. Oh yea, toolkit so hard. Mash random buttons, grats: 50% chance you just landed insane CC on them into your ai. lol.

Roll any engi build with any amulet, bring supply crate, drop on a capture point, press random buttons with eyes closed. I’d be surprised if you lost.

You seem to know alot about PvP when you waste to most key CD on engi in every 1v1. Also that must be pretty strong opponents when you win against them with random spam. I think that the problem you talk about is the average skill of the players you face in hotjoin.

Nah, itll work vs anybody, including you

vincecontix.1264:

Cam Ron.4170:

vincecontix.1264:

Because turret engi can carry bad players pretty hard. While turret engi is not op it can perform on par with others players playing there class ok, even if the turret engi is terribad.

If you notice what spec of engi most players are playing its turrets 3xkit engi take far more effort to play. Most players that play spvp are not good, even though 3xkit engi can potentially outperform turret engi you still see a lot more turret specs.

In some case I have tried to talk to turret engi about kits and other skill and there are totally oblivious. I know turret spec is not good at higher level of play but idk it might be a bit to rewarding for effort invested.

except even non-turret specs are faceroll too. Does it require more effort than turret engi? Sure I guess you may need to open your eyes once or twice, but it’s almost hard to lose if you’re playing engi verses any other class. They get freaking dumbfire (IP) as a master trait, is that a joke?

If you don’t think engi is faceroll, you probably main engineer. and their elite is super-balanced in conquest, definitely.

Well some of current meta builds are: Celestial dd ele/staff, War hambow/Axebow, Mesmer shatter(condi is this meta yet?), Guard support bunker/med, Ranger zerker lb/spirit, Necro condi terrimancer/power nec, thief dp/sd.

Do you really think the above specs are that hard to play? Multi kit engi require more effort to play than majority of current meta builds. Also they are hard countered by necro, they have 2 massive weakness cc and condi. Engi trying to perfom at warrior level have to work much harder. They also slighty out performed by eles which are more mobile and have less weakness, in alot of cases they fill similar roles (depends on build).

I’ve yet to lose on engi just mashing random buttons, can’t say the same about other classes.

To play an engineer perfectly sure its not easy. Its not easy to play anything perfectly.

My point is that an engineer played at 20% effecitiveness si stronger than a thief or any other class at 90% effectiveness. Oh yea, toolkit so hard. Mash random buttons, grats: 50% chance you just landed insane CC on them into your ai. lol.

Roll any engi build with any amulet, bring supply crate, drop on a capture point, press random buttons with eyes closed. I’d be surprised if you lost.

Sagat.3285:

Sagat.3285:

Why not just make the passive activate on CC and reduce the CD….simple

lol this would make the rune set more powerful…. I’m down for that

Belzebu.3912:

Elementarist and Engineer would be the top ones by a good margin.
Elementarist need to keep switching attunements to be effective.
Engineer kits and toolbelt also force you to press tons of buttons, specially if you want to combo between kits.

PS: Mesmers need precise button pressing but not much quantity of button pressing.

Eles and thieves and possibly Mesmer’s, ele #1 though. Nobody respects engineers because they’re easymode so I’d avoid rolling one if you have any pride

vincecontix.1264:

Because turret engi can carry bad players pretty hard. While turret engi is not op it can perform on par with others players playing there class ok, even if the turret engi is terribad.

If you notice what spec of engi most players are playing its turrets 3xkit engi take far more effort to play. Most players that play spvp are not good, even though 3xkit engi can potentially outperform turret engi you still see a lot more turret specs.

In some case I have tried to talk to turret engi about kits and other skill and there are totally oblivious. I know turret spec is not good at higher level of play but idk it might be a bit to rewarding for effort invested.

except even non-turret specs are faceroll too. Does it require more effort than turret engi? Sure I guess you may need to open your eyes once or twice, but it’s almost hard to lose if you’re playing engi verses any other class. They get freaking dumbfire (IP) as a master trait, is that a joke?

If you don’t think engi is faceroll, you probably main engineer. and their elite is super-balanced in conquest, definitely.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I appreciate the info, guys. Good to know I’m at least in the right ballpark. Would speed runes instead of centaur be okay?
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZMQRAoa8YlsMp8plOx7J8PNRPBtdAi9D4eCjIEddDA-TVCFwAAOBAXVCiU5ngHAAK1fccQAyofA3+DLOCACAiB-w
This is what I’ve come up with based on the info from you guys. To be honest I’d prefer to avoid cookie cutter builds but since I’m new to Thief I think I’m okay with that for now, lol.

Speed runes are fine, I actually used them before switching to centaur (and since then I’ve switched to wurm). another option, which is what I do, is use whatever runes you want and for mobility swap in speed signet in when running long distances, and swapping it out before battle.

This kinda is the problem here: dagger isnt a burst weapon, it does not have a burst skillset, it just happens to have a strong AA. Same with deathshroud, yeah, LB can hit like a truck, especially with lighting and fire procs. But after all its just the AA, no other skill in DS servers a purpose of bursting. LB does not feel responsive, the dps is also rather low compared to its cast time and aftercast. #4 gives nice numbers on 5 targets, but its also during a very long channel time. The point is our current weapons are just so torn apart, they do work to a certain degree sure, but we just got something of everything in each of those. We would need some real dedicated meele Power DPS weapon, as well as a dedicated long range Power DPS weapon imho.

True, its just the dagger aa, but it might be the second most potent single (now dual) target aa chain, second to thieves dagger. We don’t have much burst potential, but our aoe DPS is up there with the best, and we are probably are the second most survivable class with berserker amulet. So I agree that out burst is lackluster, but our DPS is pretty darn good as well is our survivability relative to other zerker classes.

Overall all I feel powerful on my power necro (more-so than thief since patch) and fear any significant buffs would put us over the top

[quote=4436361;Brujeria.7536:]

Because by far most faceroll class in GW2

Brujeria.7536:

I think necros have 2 flawed designs that most people do oversee: The utlilities. More precise:

1) Our best burst comes from our wells. Utility skills should give options and utlility, The pure power / burst possibilities should not come from utility skills alone, it should be included into the baseline skillset of the weapons. Utility skills should enhance and support that in certain ways, but not being the only way to make it work. We need this power in baseline

2) Spectral skills. SWalk and SArmor. No other profession has to sacrifice utlility skills to manage their profession mechanic, we do if we want to get a decent use out of our profession mechanic. It changes the worth of our profession mechanic extreme, up to a point where its almost necessary. We should get a proper management trough weapon skills, at the moment SArmor make a lot of things and builds work, making a huge impact in most builds. I think this power should be included into our baseline weapons or traits, spectral skills should still give a bit of lifeforce management, but the main focus of these skills should be the utility / support aspect. So many power and traits are centered around deathshroud, the power to do so should be included into the baseline really.

I agree with point #2, but we can pull off some pretty decent burst without wells, and darned good DPS with Deathshroud + Dagger. as a power necro I feel my damage is fine, and I don’t run with wells. DS #5 -> DS #2 ->DS#1 -> dagger auto chain. Just make lich for last 30s or lower the cooldown to 150 please., ended up switching it for golem, which is lame as hell on power necro

Zord.6130:

Kolly.9872:

hihey.1075:

Cam Ron.4170:

hihey.1075:

I wrote a long post but the forums got dizzy and lost it.
Won’t type again, but Trotsky, just know this: S/D is now a BALANCED set. Before, it was not.
You want damage? Go CS. You want survivability and sustain? Go Acro. You want utility? Go Trickery.
Your choice. You can’t have all 3 together anymore.

Also, I won’t brag about my experience but trust me that I have plenty, and most top players agree with me (such as all 55hp monks).

Lollllll, you must think D/P thief is crazy OP if you think S/D is now “balanced”…. Or are you going to make the argument that S/D is as good as D/P…..

D/P (regardless of the spec used) has always been inferior to S/x specs, especially in 1v1s.
If you lose to a D/P when playing Acro+Trickery S/x, you got outplayed hard.

if I can beat your D\P and S\D thief using an S\P thief do you will state that S\P is more OP than the other 2 sets?
Do you will state that all of these 3 sets are viable in PvP and not subpar compared to the majority of builds around nowadays?

The only advantage that a DP thief has over a S/x Thief is IF the DP gets the jump on him. Which CAN happen in a pvp match, mind me, but is the S/x’s job to be alert all the time and be ready to react or avoid that burst.
In an actual 1v1, a DP will NEVER land a clean backstab on the S/x (assuming good players), and the amount of evades and dodges available to the S/x are enough to make most of the DP bursts to miss. Also, landing a steal on a S/x is extremely difficult, while landing one on a DP is easy as pie.

Of course everything can happen in a 1v1, and getting outplayed can ensure the win of the DP side.

I believe if you beat him kitten while he plays SD it only means that either you are a better thief than him, or that you outplayed him for that round.

Also, all these sets are viable in PvP, but the best one IMHO is DP, because it suits the role of a thief better (one shotting enemy zerkers or weakened foes). SD is still viable because you can actually hold a point with it for a while, and SP, well… It’s a mix of both the previous sets, but I don’t like it really much and haven’t played it a lot so cannot say anything

If by “viable” you mean: only in hot join and never to be seen in another high level tournament in its current state ever again, then yes, S/D is viable.

anyone got footage of successful S/D play? I’m trying to figure out how to access my larcenous strike before blowing about 35 initiative., or should I just use 1 and 2 now and 3 for dodges?. any videos will help

shimmerless.4560:

No I’m not “clearly misinformed” Coglinmonkey, I said over the course of the game they have been one of the most predominant runes. The only reason they’ve fallen out of favor with Engineers is that there are even more borked options available (Balth).

anyone who thinks 90 second ICD fear proc is more powerful than constant 45% might and 5% damage is smoking crack

to be fair I don’t think lich form was ever intended to work that way. Pre-patch it would greatly increase well damage to the point of it being a death sentence, and my spinal shivers from chill of death trait for proc for like 6k in lich form, lol. That couldn’t have been intended.

I don’t get why everybody is kittening about nightmare runes though, when runes of strength are about 5 times more powerful and more common. I’m guessing the people kittening about nightmare runes use strength runes and don’t want to admit how much more OP they are. You seriously think 90 second passive fear proc is more potent than 45% might duration + 5% damage? You’re drunk.

engineers are way more OP. Everybody knows they are the strongest solo class, and can 1v1 literally any spec in the game if they have a pulse/aren’t brain-dead.

To OP: Do you use strength runes, aka the most OP runes in the game? If so- then shut up. If not- then complain about those instead. They are more powerful and more widely used. 45% might duration, 175 power+ 5% damage > 90 second fear proc. What is wrong with you

as a necro and thief player, Thief needs work more than the necro. all of necro’s weapon sets are completely usable (though focus cast times should be reduced) while S/D thief jut got neutered, and S/P has always been a bit lackluster outside of PvE. Thieves have been nerfed constantly, they need work on some of their weapon sets.