Guild Wars 2

Zantmar.5406:

Cecilia.5179:

Consume Conditions: Return to original state and make it independent of ability groups like Shelter on Guardian.
-Create a new trait in the Soul Reaping master line to fill the gap made by Fear of Death

put unyielding blast in dat empty spot
but i doubt any ideas we have will get to the devs

Then there’d be an empty spot in the adept line, which still leaves us with the same issue

First, I’d like to to say these are either things I’ve seen and liked or things I think would help us.

Consume Conditions: Return to original state and make it independent of ability groups like Shelter on Guardian.
Every Other Heal Skill: Buff to make more attractive next to Consume Conditions
Plague: Make Plague a Well
Curses Line:
-Merge Path of Corruption with Furious Demise (Curses Master Minor) and put it into the Curses Master Minor slot
-Merge the Increased Fear duration from Fear of Death into Terror
-Create a new trait to fill the gap left by Path of Corruption that benefits non condition builds investing into Curses
-Remove the negative effect on Master of Corruption
Soul Reaping line:
-Swap the places of Soul Marks and Vital Persistence
-Merge the Fear Duration part of Fear of Death onto Terror and the Fear on down effect to Reaper’s Protection
-Create a new trait in the Soul Reaping adept line to fill the gap made by Fear of Death
-Move Unyielding Blast to the master tier.
Death Magic line:
-Make Soul Comprehension baseline and put something more impactful in its place
-Merge Reaper’s Protection with the Fear on down effect of Fear of Death

I don’t think these changes are too much because every other class is being buffed in a way that’ll leave us in the dust if we aren’t up to par. Most of the changes I have posted have been with regards to Condition Necromancers because that is what I know best. If you have any additional ideas or vehemently disagree with anything, leave your opinions here. I want this to reflect what people think should be changed. It is clear to practically everyone that Necromancers are in a really bad spot right now, and it helps the devs to know what we want and to have it all compiled in one place.

Aseity.9152:

Cecilia.5179:

Everyone was joking about a riot in the twitch stream. Now there’s a riot, and it isn’t even for SAB.

Really?

Lol yeah, half of the comments were xxx or RIOT!

I’m going to point my finger at CC all day, I don’t even care that mother says it’s rude. I’m also going to give Plague and the Curses line dirty looks.

Everyone was joking about a riot in the twitch stream. Now there’s a riot, and it isn’t even for SAB.

CodeHavoc.7926:

ronpierce.2760:

skowcia.8257:

Cecilia.5179:

Necro got totally curbstomped with this update. It’s like they think it is fun to watch us be the worst class in the game.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Suffer!%22

ITS ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!

“Nothing can save you!”
“You are all weaklings!”

It all makes so much sense now. :P

Funny, they had that ready months in advance.
FREAKIN GG ANET
._.

Since these are all necro shouts, it makes us looks like total hypocrites to call others these things lol.

The only defense to this nerf I’ve heard is that CC is too strong with the new siphon builds, but if you nerf CC to the point where it hurts you to use it, it devastates every non siphon build and makes siphons not feel like a good buff because of this “eye for an eye” trade off.

Zantmar.5406:

i have no clue why a net would decide to make consume and plague corruptions

IMO plague should be a mobile well that allows siphoning during the kitten thing via trait so much playability this way

Lich change is bull kitten and should be the one to become corruption skill

consume condition just need to stay as it like shelter

unless they make the other in online with consume conditions

This, except nothing deserves to become a pulsing corruption skill, not even lich. The Plague becoming a well is an awesome idea, btw

ImdA.4701:

Don’t forget that some traits has been agregated together. (like Vital Persistence and Path of Midnight for example). It can basically be considerate as a CD reduction of all Shroud’s skills (Power Necro’s are forced to play Vital Persistence at the moment, and thus sacrifice Path of Midnight).

That helps power necros and hurts terrormancer, so it sort of cancels itself out.

Sagat.3285:

WhiteCrow.5310:

I’d rather deal with self-weakness than Vulnerability. At least then you know the heal you just used won’t be instantly negated. For the claim of transferring it, by the time you do it becomes worthless to have on the enemy and you’re probably better off saving the transfer.

That’s it!! CPC should apply self vulnerability while CC could afford self weakness.

Hah! I’m not settling for anything short of what we already have.

There’s a reason they cut the livestream right before necro. They didn’t try to fix the broken stream because they read the Necro changes and decided that they wanted to save themselves the rage.

/SIGN

Don’t even say Consume Conditions needed a nerf, OP. Necros didn’t need nerfs. The only thing we should accept from them at this point is Consume Conditions being returned to how it is and every other heal skill that we have being buffed to compensate to this foul insult to our class. Remember how they nerfed Well of Blood a few months ago for no reason and gave us the worst signet heal in the game? The only heal they haven’t destroyed was the Blood Fiend, but they pretty much did simply by not making it the starting heal because nobody would ever waste their time obtaining such a terrible heal skill.

Gryph.8237:

Devs chose a Necro representative from this community and start working with them. It’s obvious you’re lost

I think we need a Necro CDI. The level of Necro hate from the devs is unrealistically bad. Maybe somebody should make a music video about it. I’m thinking Wrecking Ball would make a good parody for this situation.

This is a good question, but they need to explain why they curbstomped us for no reason, then apologize profusely and fix everything they screwed up before they fix something that has always been an issue for us against a small number of classes.

This is my new favorite mini

Necro got totally curbstomped with this update. It’s like they think it is fun to watch us be the worst class in the game.

One time, I sat at the bottom of Rata Sum with a bunch of Charr while on my Human Necro and we had a very amusing roleplayed conversation (too bad I can never do that again (RIP Spectral Walk)). I had never done any roleplaying before. There are welcoming opportunities to roleplay out there, but they are few and far between.

Sagat.3285:

Sagat.3285:

Does Parasitic Contagion finally work in Death Shroud??

Nope.

1) “Mwahahaha, Now you have to use a bad heal skill! We win!” -Devs
2) I guess that because we have new siphon traits, they needed to take the survivability from everything else?
3) Bonus points on the Master of Corruption, you apply even more conditions to yourself and your own condition buffing stats make it even worse. You could even fear yourself after healing XD

Honestly, the only reason for these nerfs was to compensate for all the buffs every other profession got. Well, that’s all I can think of, anyways.

I really can’t say much until I see this in action. I’m too crushed right now to give you positive feedback. Maybe you should bring this back to the forum when people are ready to move on, or when something positive comes along.

MethaneGas.8357:

Personally, I think that condi Necros got a buff for WvW.

At first, I wasn’t happy about not being able to take Banshee’s Wail, I wasn’t happy about Consume Conditions and I wasn’t happy about Plague making you self-bleed. I also wasn’t happy about how Path of Corruption and Terror compete… BUT then I started thinking and got really hyped.

In curses:
- Plague Sending is a free condi transfer and a stun break, which also covers one of the weakneses of condi warhorn Necros – lack of condi removal.
-Terror will still be Terror and in WvW you won’t lack damage if you don’t take Path of Corruption
-Parasitic Contagion will be nice sustain and I think this will make up for the increased cooldown of Consume Conditions AND the self-bleed in Plague. Say you inflict 5 bleeds on 5 targets in WvW, 3 stacks of poison and 3 torment. That’s roughly 700 health per second. If they allow themselves to be hit by this for 3 seconds… that’s already 2100 hp for you.
As for Plague… If you do something like Torment Sigil, Krait Rune’s 6th bonus, Locust Swarm, Tainted Shackles then transform into Plague and spam 1… that’s EASY 5 stacks of torment, over 3 stacks of poison and over 6 stacks of bleeding (probably more like 8-10 bleed stacks). That’s a whole buttload of healing from Parasitic Contagion. If you mixed in Blood Magic, the healing would be pretty insane. Even without that whole combo and with Parasitic Contagion alone, bleeding or poisoning enemies while in Plague will heal you.
The ONLY thing that would be really the icing on the top would be if Parasitic Contagion worked while you’re in DS.

Death Magic:
-Shrouded Removal is crazy. Even the previous Shrouded Removal was quite good, but this one is really, really good, especially if you’re running warhorn – no need for dagger cleanse.
Corrupter’s Fervor (Whenever you apply a condition to a foe gain a stack of Corrupter’s Fervor for 8 seconds which grants 30 toughness and 2% reduced incoming condition damage per stack (maximum 10 stacks)) is also kind of crazy. If you cast Grasping Dead on a group of enemies, you’ll get those 10 stacks and immediately have +300 toughness and take 20% less damage. That’s kind of baffling. Couple that with Beyond the Veil and you can easily take 53% less damage as a Necro (not to mention the toughness). This would also work well while you’re in Plague. Sure, you’d bleed yourself but you’d take basically no damage (I think Plague doubles your toughness, and if it works with this buff, that’s 600 toughness)… mix in Parasitic Contagion and you got some nice sustain.

As for sPvP… Necros lost the ability to take Terror and Path of Corruption together… BUT I think that’s where things get interesting.
Say a condi Necro takes Spite, Curses and Blood Magic.

In Spite, the Necro could stack really nice Vulnerability, which is a cover-condi but it also increases the damage taken by the enemy. Chill of Death is more chill, more vuln and some boon stripping. And then we have Signets of Suffering: Reduces recharge of signet skills by 20%. Signets grant 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds on cast and convert up to 2 boons on affected foes to conditions.

In Curses, you have 1 signet from Plague Sending (converts 2 boons to condis).
You could grab Terror or Path of Corruption for another 2 boons into condis.

In Blood you’d have another (hopefully AoE) signet Blood Bond: When you inflict at least 4 stacks of bleeding to a single target cast Lesser Signet of Vampirism on them. This trait benefits from the recharge bonus of Signets of Suffering.

So you’d have two signets from traits with a reduces cooldown, 1 boon strip from Chill of Death, another boon strip from Path of Corruption and if you take Corrupt Boon, that’s another 5 boons converted all the while you can support allies with Blood Magic. Signet of Spite could also be another nice choice and would be a condi bomb – the condis it applies + 2 boons converted.

Or if instead of Terror and Path of Corruption one grabbed Master of Corruption, Consume Conditions would have a normal cooldown, Plague would be usable every 2 minutes, and Corrupt Boon would have a reduced cooldown as well (27 sec cooldown).

I haven’t thought about power Necros but from a condi Necro perspective, I think we’ll be fine

Condi Necros got a devastating nerf in WvW because everything else got way better. We now kill ourselves faster by pressing our heal when under pressure, and every class got improved abilities to handle conditions, the worst for us being that every d/d ele can run Diamond Skin and not feel bad about missing their other key traits.

RIP Necro
I’ve said it in many threads, but I’m totally stunned that they thought it was a good ideas to make us worse and make everything else better.

I think the current best option for them is to give us an option to run nothing in our heal skill slot. I might even start running the human heal skill, but I think they’re removing that too.

Even if you could say that the buffs make every necro build strong in comparison to each other, in comparison to everything else, which just got way better, we are now a whole bar lower than we were before. It’s like every class took three steps forward and let necro take the two steps back in their place. As if we weren’t already the whipping boy of GW2, we really are now, and I don’t see how we could even be considered viable in WvW where every d/d ele will be running Diamond Skin because they can, and our heal skill now begs people to kill us while leaving us weaker to ALL builds.

I can’t believe they made it so that plague kills us. It’s as if the entire Necro changes list was some cruel joke.

We should all start running a downed build that revolves around us attempting to beat things while downed because that’s where we’ll be after the nerfs hit.

We didn’t deserve the nerf hammer. I feel hurt and confused, like Anet jilted us at our wedding.

DEATHsCLAW.1978:

the problem about those 3 traits is the Terrormancer who needs at least 2 of them.. I have made a seperate trait about this with a solution idea
check it out&tell me what u think pls
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Terrormancer-not-viable

I like the changes you’ve proposed, but Necro is still screwed until they unnerf Consume Conditions in my eyes.

Me Gusta, that works for me.

Necros got completely curbstomped. Again. Why?
;-;

Necro definitely came in dead last. By far. If this was a race, Necromancer ran the race backwards and was disqualified. They Ride the Lightning’ed Consume Conditions, so RIP Necro.

Sigmoid.7082:

-3 really good traits for condition necro are all in the Soul Reaping master slot

This isnt bad its good design if you have a tough choice about which one you want to take.

It’s bad design when you take into account that we were already nerfed everywhere else and the tough choice becomes a tough opportunity cost that we’d be better off not having to take at this point.

They kill all the fun in Necro. I bought wings, let me pretend that I can fly.

The Good
-New interesting effect on signet grandmaster
-Blood Magic might be viable
-Blood is Power is now AoE might
-Focus Range is now 1200
-Ground targeting wells is baseline
-New interesting Death Magic Grandmaster
-Soon to be needed shrouded removal buff
-Staff is now slightly better

The Bad
-Lich form has been nerfed in duration.
-Plague form has been nerfed by making it a corruption skill
-Consume Conditions has been Ride the Lightninged: It now has a long cooldown and it applies vulnerability to add insult to injury.
-Terror has been moved to Master, making it unusable with Path of Corruption
-Lingering Curse has been nerfed to only effect scepter skills, making the reason to separate it from terror null and void.
-Curses minors are still not that great
-3 really good traits for condition necro are all in the Soul Reaping master slot
-Spectral Walk no longer enables necro flight

Honestly, the most impactful change on the viability of necromancer was the brutal nerf of our only good heal skill. This nerf is on the level of Ride the Lightning’s nerf because it punishes you for clicking the button where it didn’t before and it has a new cooldown to make the skill even worse. I was able to live with the Ride the Lightning nerf on my ele, but with this nerf, I might quit necro. I cannot even imagine why there is so much pressure to brutally nerf a class that has limited viability across all game modes. I hope Consume Conditions is returned to its normal state in the next week.

tl;dr Nerfing Consume Conditions is unacceptable

I can’t believe that they nerfed this. I can’t believe they nerfed us even after unnerfing some other big things on other professions. It really doesn’t matter what buffs they gave us. Our best heal is now bad and it can kill us faster than than having no heal skill at all. I literally cried when I saw that nerf. Why do you hate us so much Anet?

Interesting build. I saw people I knew in that video, lol

Watch the south park episode where Kyle’s dad gets plastic surgery to be a dolphin and tell me if you still think race change is possible. XD

Nice tutorial! Longbow rangers have become fairly rediculous in WvW to the point where their existence in a skirmish makes them the most threatening foe on the battlefield. On one hand, I’m happy to see Rangers become good, I’m also very annoyed by how threatening they are and how hard it can be to approach them.

flow.6043:

Cecilia.5179:

Master of Terror was the next issue I wanted to bring up. This trait is one of those “mandatory” picks whenever you invest into soul reaping. It’s very existence in the master tier invalidates the use of the other two traits, Vital Persistence and Spectral Mastery, on many other builds.

Actually Vital Persistance (merged with Path of Midnight) and Spectral Mastery (merged with Spectral Attunement) will vastly overshadow Master of Terror even if you don’t have Lingering Curse.

Cecilia.5179:

Spite Grandmasters (Lack of options for non-power builds)

Spiteful Spirit and Signet Mastery can be used by any build.

Vital Persistence and Spectral Mastery are both defensive traits that are undoubtedly good, but still often lose to Master of Terror when running Terror because their benefits are muted behind the increased fear uptime, which does more damage and provides opportunities to make game changing moves, such as using Signet of Spite. Of course, I still don’t see the point of Master of Terror being a trait when even its name is just asking for it to be part of Terror.

Spiteful Spirit gives no damaging conditions, just a cripple, which isn’t even all that helpful anymore, and it removes a boon, which is actually bad for a condi build, because condi builds gain more benefits from corrupting boons, and to top it off, the retaliation it grants scales with power, not even mentioning how mediocre retaliation is. I can’t actually see how this is a grandmaster. It seems like a poor option on any build.

Signet Mastery only benefits builds that have signets, so it cannot be used on every build. The active on Signet of the Locust, which it pops at a health threshold, scales with power, making it very weak on condi builds. This is also pretty weak for a Grandmaster, especially when we compare it with Lingering Curse, Terror, Foot in the Grave, and Dhuumfire, which are all amazing traits.

Oh, cool, Master of Terror was the next issue I wanted to bring up. This trait is one of those “mandatory” picks whenever you invest into soul reaping. It’s very existence in the master tier invalidates the use of the other two traits, Vital Persistence and Spectral Mastery, on many other builds. The minor traits in Soul Reaping are actually fairly good, so making Master of Terror a minor trait would be at the cost of good minors, so the best option for Master of Terror would be to merge it with Terror, making Terror a worthy grandmaster and freeing up the Master tier in Soul Reaping for better competition.
Other things that should be looked at:
Curses minors (The only good one is the adept minor, ironically)
Death Magic Grandmasters (Two decent options for minion master, but a weak option for everything else)
Spite Grandmasters (Lack of options for non-power builds)
The Blood Magic line (They said they were fixing this)

They could just make the shouts good…

I’m actually really excited to try condi reaper. I assume the best trait options would be to run standard terrormancer in curses, Master of Terror and Dhuumfire in Soul Reaping (I really wish that Vital persistence + Path of Midnight was still adept), and Chill Damage in Reaper. The AoE Fear may seem a little weaker than the single-target Death Shroud fear, but this actually allows reaper to further pressure foes who are stealthed, as well as doubling as a stability for the heavy cc builds, like hammer warrior, who can potentially wreck a necromancer, as well as applying chill and chill damage due to reaper traits. Dhuumfire on reaper shroud auto is an amazing source of damage that turns reaper shroud into an amazing source of pressure, and Reaper Shroud might have just enough power damage to break the Diamond Skin eles who will become far more common when choosing earth means picking a grandmaster for them.

Captain Unusual.9163:

Cecilia.5179:

Captain Unusual.9163:

Because that’d be too strong. I honestly like the change, even if it is a nerf. It forces condi necros to choose between extremely strong and long lasting conditions for long lasting pressure, versus powerful burst conditions with heavy CC attached. The choice lets there be multiple types of condimancers. If the two were allowed to be taken together, they’d both need to be nerfed, because being the best at condition pressure and burst condition CC would be way the hell too strong.

They’re already taken together, and it isn’t too strong. I don’t see how you could call that an issue. It really just forces you to choose between two things that worked well together before, removing the synergy that once existed and replacing it with a tough choice. Seriously, why would they need to be nerfed when they aren’t broken as is? If it really is too much to offer those traits in the same line, one could be moved to another line. The Grandmasters in Death Magic are really lackluster and 2/3 only apply to minion masters.

Well, the new Lingering Curse is significantly stronger than it is now. And yes, they’re not overbearing when taken together now, but balance can change in HoT and once the new traits hit.

In current balance, you’re absolutely right, but currently things are balanced to work that way. When everything changes, it will obviously be tuned to work with one or the other. But, design-wise, the new trait system is all about meaningful choices, and if there’s no choice as to what to take to make your condimancer the best, then the trait system has failed.

Fortunately, the trait changes are coming before HoT, so if it was left nerfed for reaper before reaper exitsed, it would be silly, and with the potential +30% condition duration removed from the spite line, this condition duration boosting trait becomes the only way for necros in spvp to get condi duration outside of runes. The other major issue here is not that I have to make a choice to find my perfect condimancer, it’s that there is no choice for me to find my perfect anything else-mancer. The Curses line comes with the warhorn cooldown reducing trait, which is something a power build might choose to take, but a power build will be left without any options that make sense on a power build when they go to pick a curses grandmaster trait. Honestly, the best option for anet would probably be to fix the weak minor traits in curses by moving good traits in the curses line into that many feel pressured to choose, such as path of corruption, into a minor trait slot, then move down one of the grandmasters, a pre-buff version of lingering curses would do, and make a new grandmaster that is sensible on a power build.

Captain Unusual.9163:

Because that’d be too strong. I honestly like the change, even if it is a nerf. It forces condi necros to choose between extremely strong and long lasting conditions for long lasting pressure, versus powerful burst conditions with heavy CC attached. The choice lets there be multiple types of condimancers. If the two were allowed to be taken together, they’d both need to be nerfed, because being the best at condition pressure and burst condition CC would be way the hell too strong.

They’re already taken together, and it isn’t too strong. I don’t see how you could call that an issue. It really just forces you to choose between two things that worked well together before, removing the synergy that once existed and replacing it with a tough choice. Seriously, why would they need to be nerfed when they aren’t broken as is? If it really is too much to offer those traits in the same line, one could be moved to another line. The Grandmasters in Death Magic are really lackluster and 2/3 only apply to minion masters.

All I can tell you, OP, is be patient. Maybe Tengu will show us how to jab people with pointy sitcks without an ocean to accompany us when they leave their mighty citadel. Maybe Largos will come onto land with the underwater spears and be like, “Do you guys really have no idea how to use these on land?”

So, right now, the ele forums are buzzing because one of the devs told them that Elemental Atunement had been changed to a minor trait, so now they don’t have to suffer with Evasive Arcana vs Elemental Attunement. Now, the Necromancer is the only class (as far as I’m aware) being subject to a nerf where two traits that once worked really well together are being split apart by the grandmaster line, and, to make things worse, the only other option in that trait line also competes for a spot on a condition build, forcing us to choose between three things we might like to run if we were condi, and absolutely nothing to choose from if we run power. It seems kind of weird that they’d choose to nerf Necro when they buff everything else. Bear in mind that these changes are coming out before the expansion, so all of the balancing we are hearing about is being done separate of potential changes to keep our Elite Specialization in line after the expansion.

tl;dr
If eles can get Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana on the same spec, why can’t we have Lingering Curses and Terror?

If they make us too bunkery and take it out on our mobility, we’re left with necro syndrome, which is not really a good thing to have for anything other than 1v1.

I like the idea removing attunement cooldowns and instead putting icd on attunement swap traits. This seems totally fair to me.

I think that if there is any catch involved with this change, it will be the frequently mentioned “Make it apply to self only” nerf, but I actually believe that there will be no change, as the main reason to run Arcana has always been to pick up the 2 EA’s and Renewing Stamina.

The tablet is terrible. There’s very little wifi inside Guild Wars 2, and it doesn’t even have Snapchat. How am I supposed to support my allies without sending captioned pictures of myself making silly expressions?

On another note, imagine these things flying around in a wvw zerg.