Wow, put a tl;dr at the end of that. It’s gonna take me a while to read it.
Well at this point, I’d be kindest to tell you that the best way to play Necromancer post patch will be to reroll to something else. If you are stuggling now, your life is about to be hell.
The best Necromancer I know lives in New Zealand, so he has similar lag problems to you. Sometimes they cost him the duels, but usually he manages to win without looking like he’s trying. The best advice I can give you is for condition specs.
-Don’t throw all of your marks out at once
-don’t waste the #4 skill on either of your weapons
-be sure to land as many DS 3’s as possible
-don’t linger in deathshroud
-make full use of kiting melee specs
-find a tutor
-there are more things I can tell you, just ask
Antitoxin Spray obviously.
It’s a CC that works only with poison torment and confusion, and scales if you cleanse those, and it doesn’t even put vulnerability on you either!This is what i was thinking initially, but they are removing Antitoxin Spray in the next patch.
Of course, can’t let Necromancer have any good heals.
Antitoxin Spray obviously.
It’s a CC that works only with poison torment and confusion, and scales if you cleanse those, and it doesn’t even put vulnerability on you either!
The really sad part is that it actually would be better than post nerf CC if it removed bleeding too
For me, the blood fiend would be better if the sacrifice heal had the same value as consume conditions without any conditions, was insta-cast (It could be cast through stun, but not break stun), and it siphoned to you through DS. With those two changes, it now has the initial sustain advantage while it is up and it has a large enough heal to make it worth its cast-time.
Well of Blood would be better if it was a water field with a 30s cd and, like you said, more health per tick inside the well, as well as 1 condi per tick cleansed.
Signet of Vampirism is so bad as it is that it would have to be completely overhauled. It is LITERALLY the worst profession heal in the game.
Your Soul is Mine needs the base effectiveness increased and the effectiveness per target decreased accordingly. It also needs an AoE effect to each of the foes around you, such as AoE Weakness, to properly reward the user for fighting 5 foes.
Consume Conditions needs to be completely unnerfed, no compromises
So, you were more or less on the same page as me in terms of what should be buffed. Honestly, they can’t expect all of us to run siphon Necro, so the heals should not be balanced so that we have average hps with the siphon.
this is the most stupid thing in this game!
The most stupid thing in this game is the CC nerf, not the soon to be gone strength of Necromancer downed state.
Even our downed state builds can’t be allowed to be viable…
Well… You do have to be a bit of a masochist to be a Necromancer. The new CC actually punishes for getting hit even more. It would be pretty nice if we could make it so that 5 people trying to lay into us would go down if they weren’t cautious, but the only thing that works closely to that is Retaliation, which is a boon, and we aren’t allowed to have boons, but retaliation doesn’t actually do much unless it is multiple people with Retaliation underneath a single AoE. The best trait we have to punish attackers is Reaper’s Protection, but that is more of a one time stop than a counter to focus fire.
I agree with you that Necromancers should be able to injure foes that try to focus them down. Wouldn’t getting beat up be a good reason to spite someone? However, as it is, the only traits that reward us for getting hit are spectral armor and spectral walk.
You might only need to wait until Tuesday. Necromancers are pretty mad…
Horror movie endings.. The bad guy/monster dies.
Or the good guy gets away… As if they’re hinting that the best way to fight reaper is to walk away.
I would say that in spite of what eles lost, we got several significant additions. Eles can now comfortably run all the way into three traitlines. Most ele specs will probably be X/Water/Arcana. Choosing fire enables you to run what was once dhuumfire and blindspam, Air allows you to gain fury and damage boosts, and Earth allows you to tank and completely screw over condi builds.
There are a lot of new things we can do with our eles, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the update gives rise to many new specs.Lol, first you say ‘’Most ele specs will probably be X/water/Arcana’’ and then you say ‘’ I wouldn’t be surprised if the update gives rise to many new specs.‘’ You’re contradicting yourself a lot, lol.
Also, saying ele got a lot because we got a third line. Well, ALL classes got those.
Alright, I worded it wrong. Most ele specs will use X/Water/Arcana, initially. What gets slotted in each line will likely vary, what gear is used will vary, and what utilities are slotted will vary. There are more things than a couple of traits that make a spec. It would be wrong to say ele was nerfed. Ele has 5 traitlines that are all viable in their own way. Most importantly, ele definitely was not the worst off. Necromancer got hit in places where a third line doesn’t even begin to compensate for.
I would say that in spite of what eles lost, we got several significant additions. Eles can now comfortably run all the way into three traitlines. Most ele specs will probably be X/Water/Arcana. Choosing fire enables you to run what was once dhuumfire and blindspam, Air allows you to gain fury and damage boosts, and Earth allows you to tank and completely screw over condi builds.
There are a lot of new things we can do with our eles, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the update gives rise to many new specs.
Burning Precision: Critical hits have a 33% chance to cause 2 seconds of burning. Burning duration is increased by 20%.
Looks familiar? We had this once, and we were nerfed because of it, and then it was nerfed into oblivion.
Dhuumfire: Shroud skill 1 inflicts 1 stack of burning for 3 seconds when it hits.
Of course, to rub in the salt a bit, the ele trait also synergizes with a trait that applies a ton of blind. Imagine if every time dhuumfire procced, the foe was blinded. People would say it was broken. I don’t want eles to be nerfed, but I do want Necros to be buffed, and if ele can have something as strong as this, can’t we get something other than a nerf?
Eles basically now have what was once Necromancer Dhuumfire as an adept trait. Let the tears fall. XD
So a chance to knockdown foes when struck? Sounds very horror movie. I get so mad when I’m watching something like walking dead and the people trip like it is an everyday issue. I haven’t tripped in months…
Has anyone thought about the fact the Skill 4(Putrid Mark) with the staff also gets rids of your Conditions? Use CC and use that skill. We have SO many ways of getting rid of conditions. Whether that be with Wells, Corruption Skills, Staff, Heals, Etc.
“Well,” the only well that cleanses conditions is Well of Power, and it has a long cooldown that does not make it worth popping with every heal. Saying our heal/corruption is a condi cleanse for the condition applied by said heal/corruption is ludicrous. Most importantly, the Vulnerability applied by the heal lasts long enough to be bursted down, but not long enough to transfer it (Which is risky) and actually make use of it. There is literally no way to justify the condi on condi cleanse. It is ridiculous and it hurts us no matter how you look at it.
Even if CC damaged you for each condition consumed, it’d still be better than every other Necro heal. That’s how bad Necro heals are. Of course, if you aren’t afraid of poison, Prayer to Dwayna can compete with CC.
Unless change is a value, it cannot be changed overnight.
Maybe the next patch after the next patch things will be better
The next balance patch won’t be until HoT, so that would leave us as trash until elite specializations come.
This sucks vs boon conversion classes, but most of those won’t be able to do this consistently. It does make Reaper look bad though. It’s like they’re curbstomping it with indirect nerfs to every one of its concepts.
Like every other condition, it is now effected more by your condition damage than before, soif you have low condi damage, it’ll be worse, and if you have high condi damage, it’ll be better.
1. It was kind of overkill, but it didn’t really take from the experience
2. Haven’t watched other videos from you
3. It is cool that you have character art for your character. Not everyone is talented enough to make character art, so it is a nice touch
4. Kuddos to you for using Fire Emblem music. It wasn’t my ideal pick (I prefer classical), but I’m glad it wasn’t dark punk rock with exaggerated screen shakes and screams.
That’s your first time using keybinds? I’m impressed. I started using keybinds while learning ele. It was hell.
I hate it when I drop out of DS 1 second before my heal is ready and I die for it. I’d be happy if they did this, but they should fix CC above all else right now.
I would blow a fuse if the nerfs that they threw onto us are all still there by Tuesday. I remember that they tried to nerf Elemental Attunement once by putting it next to Renewing Stamina, and it was moved back because of complaints, and recently, They tried to nerf Elemental Attunement again by putting it next to Evasive Arcana, and they made it a minor trait because of all the complaints, making every ele super happy.
Terror is a waste of a slot, the more I think of it.
It is a 50 per cent increase in Fear condition damage. It does not do anything new.
If Terror stays a major trait, i would like it to transfer conditions or corrupt boons.
It is more than a percent increase in Fear condition damage because fear does 0 damage normally and a 100% increase from 0 is still zero. Terror makes fears deal damage and the damage is boosted 50% when another condition is on the foe as well.
We get more anti boon, but the cost everywhere else is greater than the gain. If you like making the life of a zerg guardian a living hell, enjoy those boon corruption buffs.
Oh yikes. I jumped back on to see how pre-expansion events were unfolding, and I find out that, apparently, Consume Conditions clears all current conditions, then applies 10 stacks of Vuln. I need to go watch the stream, but did they at least increase the healing potential? Is there another viable heal we can use in place of CC, making it potentially situational?
Either way, if their idea is to make it so it synergizes with condition transfer builds, why would you opt to transfer conditions after you’ve just cleared them all? You end up blowing two clears just to put 10 stacks of Vuln on someone.
Is it because CC is clearly the best Necro heal? What about making some of the other heals actually useful?
Usually I can see a bright side to ANet’s decisions, but this is actually unjustifiable. What a crazily uneducated change.
There literally is no bright side to this, just as you see. All of our other heals were untouched, and they actually lowered our hps with CC by increasing the cooldown and making it so that we take even more damage if we trait it.
Look honestly he explained the changes that were made really well.
He didn’t explain the changes that weren’t made though, which are the real problem. Why is well of blood still crap? It’s worth so little that they’re ok with giving you one for free on an adept trait. Why are they ok with consume conditions being the best general use heal even after a change to make it more specialized? The problem isn’t on CC, its on well of blood/signet of vampirism.
Actually, the problem is on all of the heal skills. Consume Conditions was our only good heal skill and they brought it down to the level of the other heals that are rather terrible instead of leaving consume conditions alone and bringing the other heal skills up to par. Seriously, with the shape our heals are in, WvW necros might start running something like Prayer to Dwayna
Not a chance, CC being poison-immune beats out dwayna by far. Regarding CC being bad, you might want to consider conditions getting far stronger in the future. It’ll be worse in terms of base numbers compared to live, but the utility of the full cleanse is going to skyrocket compared to live.
I can’t forsee conditions getting better when pewpew ranger can easily run empathic bond and d/d ele can easily run diamond skin.
Necromancer will be even less viable in sPvP than before because they were nerfed.
Look honestly he explained the changes that were made really well.
He didn’t explain the changes that weren’t made though, which are the real problem. Why is well of blood still crap? It’s worth so little that they’re ok with giving you one for free on an adept trait. Why are they ok with consume conditions being the best general use heal even after a change to make it more specialized? The problem isn’t on CC, its on well of blood/signet of vampirism.
Actually, the problem is on all of the heal skills. Consume Conditions was our only good heal skill and they brought it down to the level of the other heals that are rather terrible instead of leaving consume conditions alone and bringing the other heal skills up to par. Seriously, with the shape our heals are in, WvW necros might start running something like Prayer to Dwayna
I thought this too, but for what it’s worth, the gain was still far greater than the loss here.
While your complaints might have some merit, be thankful every minute of you life that you aren’t Necromancer right now. Imagine if Fiery Greatsword did 10k damage of burning to you if you used it for the full duration, or if your heal was nerfed, applied a ton of vuln to you every time you used it and the only way to make it slightly better made it apply more conditions to you. On top of that, imagine having two places on the same build with Elemental Attunement vs Evasive Arcana kind of problems.
They may have not given us the best of the changes, but be thankful that they didn’t nerf us like necro.
I’m thinking Fire/Water/Arcana for blind spam or Earth/Water/Arcana to faceroll condition specs
This trait is beyond redemption as long as it sits next to Path of Corruption and Terror while at the same time boasting the infamous reason that Consume Conditions and Plague got curbstomped.
It almost sounded like he actually thought destroying Consume Conditions made it a more strategic and fun skill.
This is my WvW solo roaming build
I understand it may not be ideal, optimal, etc. but it is the build I enjoy/am comfortable with and have been using for a very, very long time. It has a very nasty burst if I manage to land the full rotation on someone and has tons of sustain via massive Life Force generation.
I haven’t fully gone over the upcoming changes yet, all I know as of right now is: Consume Conditions got rekt, Mark Of Blood got a semi-nerf, Terror will be grandmaster, Dhuumfire got nerfed because of burning changes and no more Spectral Walk parachuting.
Will I be able to maintain my build without it being totally broken? Or will I have to come up with something else entirely?
Actually, you can run every trait on your build that you are already using after the patch except for Spiteful Removal. Terror is staying master, unfortunately, your two spectral traits are now mashed into one Master tier trait in Soul Reaping that you can run, Hemophilia is a minor trait, and Dhuumfire is now a Soul Reaping grandmaster. You can choose to run 6/6/0/0/6, so you can spec all the way into every traitline you were specced into before and pick up some new traits that you couldn’t before. The brunt of the nerf for your build is the same as everyone else. Consume Conditions and Plague now kill you.
Necros get so much…. your old build was bad… I didn’t even look at it, all of the old necro builds were bad.
You should be looking forward to the patch, the new stuff is amazing.
No.
(edited by Cecilia.5179)
Necros are complaining for some reason.
Imagine if in exchange for a few tweaks, your only good heal was nerfed to the floor, and two of your elites were made worse, one having a duration too short to get anything done without a trait and the other nuking the user for 10k. On top of that, many traits that were once run together are all sitting on the same tiers. Power Necro got slightly better overall (but not in comparison to everything else), but Condition Necro is closer to the bottom of the barrel of condition builds than it has ever been.
I love how in the video, they talk about Consume Conditions become a corruption skill as if it’s a cool change despite that it is blatantly a heavy nerf in every way.
How about it becomes a well and instead of being made worse by a trait, it gets made better by one.
This will be the question the devs answer… I guess it’s possible. I can already imagine the crazy black vortex from Twighlight every time a reaper uses Death’s Charge.
This was more of a power creep than a balance patch. The only class that received harsh nerfs was necromancer, and pretty much everything else got buffed.
Even if blood magic is amazing, Condition builds for necro will be close to the bottom of the barrel in terms of other classes condition builds.
“-> Terror and PoC now contested.”
I dont see this one in particular as an issue. Most of the other things are stuff thats on point.
That’s a really painful nerf to terrormancer because the boon removal was somewhat vital to the usefulness of terror, and combined with everything else we’re losing, this is too much.
Well, and it breaks a play style which is something they had originally said they wanted to avoid, which is why I added it to the list.
Still dont see it an an issue rather a choice between different play styles since specific boon hate can be an actual build. I never seen the boon removal as “vital” to the build. My opinion.
A build that is completely devoted to being anti boon is more or less a niche counterbuild that is not very amazing when it can be done alongside many other things on more generalized build, such as terrormancer, which currently has really good anti boon on top of being able to deal with things that are not boon heavy, like some warriors.
“-> Terror and PoC now contested.”
I dont see this one in particular as an issue. Most of the other things are stuff thats on point.
That’s a really painful nerf to terrormancer because the boon removal was somewhat vital to the usefulness of terror, and combined with everything else we’re losing, this is too much.
3- take a closer look at dhuumfire. If you’re going to nerf burning you have our dhuumfire being less damage than a scepter auto attack given the slow and predictable auto attack of DS #1. It should be 2 stacks of burning minimum for 10 seconds. Take a look at the minor trait you gave eles. Don’t you think you could up it a bit? Condi Necros that take it will not benefit from it unless they are condi and condi builds will actually lose dmg trying to stack this with the slowest attack in the game. Condi builds are the only build that will use it but condi builds can’t stay that long in ds as they have trouble generating life force. The dmg needs to be increased. Look at the power creep in other classes.
I’ll agree with you that dhuumfire is still underwhelming with DS 1, but unfortunately, its fate is sealed because with RS 1, it hits a lot faster. Personally, If I can’t fit both Vital Persistence and Spectral Mastery onto my build, I will run foot in the grave because it’ll be far more useful when I can only afford to pop into DS for a short time.
Also verify your team for the ridiculous bias it shows to certain classes. Anyone with intelligence can see it… And it is offensive.
The bias is scary real…
Honestly, there should be no “but it is a buff.” I still can’t believe they’d nerf us after buffing literally every other profession. We deserved some love before, but at this point it is ridiculous for them to frown at any undoing of their harsh nerfs. This would work, but it would suck to make so much pressure for us to run spectral mastery, especially when terrormancer would like to run Vital Persistence and Fear of Death too. I’d much rather that they give it the shelter treatment and not change it at all.
I would much rather that Path of Corruption be made the master minor, because having boon removal inside death shroud is very very useful, and it is a choice that almost every build that goes into curse wants to have. I seriously doubt anybody would choose Master of Corruption, which was actually nerfed by separating it from the fall damage trait and tacking on a penalty for taking it, as it is right now. Terror is fine as a master trait, but it should not be pitted against Path of Corruption.
This is one of the few nerfs to necro I was fine with, If you think about it, multiple necros using epidemic at the same time will still delete trashmobs.
It is gonna be like a second punch in the gut when you realize they remove racial skills
Update
I’ll put these changes on the OP as soon as I get on my computer.
-removed suggested Lich Form change: With the trait, which has been made far less painful to slot, Lich Form would have too much uptime with its original duration.
-unyielding blast moved to master major: There were quite a few requests for this, but I’m still open to moving this back because I can’t think of any builds that don’t use spectral skills except for a wvw well necro, especially since Lich Form is now a spectral skill.
Ideally, I see the three choices on a trait tier to work best when we have already picked the traits that we can’t afford to pass up for our builds, and the additional choices become more of a luxury of personal preference. For example, a terrormancer would take terror, vital persistence, and spectral mastery, and every choice after that is a luxury.
Also, don’t underestimate the percent increases on the death magic traits. They can make a big difference.
The point of this thread is to adress problems created by the update, and while great stability, mobility, and weapons are things we want, they are not issues caused by the update, and they have been theorycrafted to death.
Lastly, I’m not going to add any trait suggestions unless I see other people giving them a thumbs up since those are the things the devs will least likely listen to.
tainted shakes transfer condition
1condition persecond to all foe
That is interesting. What if that was the new trait in Soul Reaping? DS 5 Transfers Conditions.
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