Guild Wars 2

Frenk.5917:

Still no changes to other underwhelming and unrewarding traits such as evasive powder keg, thermobaric detonation, heavy armor exploits, no scope and high caliber…

And on top of that, Soothing detonation and medical dispersion field STILL have 240 radius. Why did I even bother to write an entire topic of in dept analysis if all the feedback gets ignored.

lol

It’s strange that you’re questioning why you bothered to do that unsolicited in depth analysis you did. If you want to do it, do it for the sake of it. Don’t do it for the chance they’ll copy paste your changes onto live.

Also, patch notes are not out yet. We have the executive summary

Ricky Rouse.1583:

Also: Hilarious interaction. Because Bandage Self is now a heal skill, it doesn’t receive the CDR from the tools trait line

Pre-rework you could bring it down to a 14-15 second cooldown, making it slightly faster than the HTs and Elixir H’s 20, but now it sits at 17 with no way to reduce it any further.

Bravo, anet.

It’s supposed to be a 14.75s CD with Tools, it’s currently bugged. Yeah just making Med Kit more of a joke.

Rage Cube.4573:

It literally just got a skill re-haul.

There is an upcoming trait from Scrapper that will make it Interesting.

Recovery Matrix: Using your heal skill will temporarily reduce damage you receive. (This grants protection for 5s).

IT HAS NO LISTED INTERNAL CD.

Med-Kit + Recovery Matrix = 100% Protection up-time.

May it be noted that you miss out on the other traits in this tier: Stability for your function Gyro and Super-speed on Blast/Leap on Lightning Fields.

In the Core Specialization patch when Med Kit went from under-tuned to unusable (PJSalt), the skill that is considered the ‘healing skill’ for ‘on heal’ procs was shifted from the Kit to the F1.

So all on-heal effects are gated by their ICDS and the CD of Med Kit’s F1, which was one thing the Med Kit had going for it – being able to use on heal effects on cooldown. RIP.

I think not having an ICD on the protection from Recovery Matrix would be nice. Cause it’s no longer abusable by Engi, but might result in a double shot of protection if used with Automated Medical Response from Inventions.

Source: Trust me, I’m an Engineer!

RunicAura.9860:

Will gyros destruction be a blast finisher? Will turret traits work for gyros? Will superspeed stack? Will our healing effect the gyro? I would like to know.

• Gyros will not be a blast finisher. You can order them to self-destruct, causing a 240 radius 1s Daze.

• Turret traits will not work for Gyros, but that could be easily extended.

• Superspeed does not stack.

• Gyros can be healed among all other positive and negative effects (boons, conditions) that hit players.

Xyonon.3987:

I’m a huge fan of the upcoming hammer, no question. But am I the only one who finds it extremly odd that for example the hammer reflect has 6 sec CD whereas the shield reflect has 30 sec CD, aswell the hammer block is around 10 (don’t know the exact number on this one) sec and the shield stun has a 40 sec CD.

I mean sure, those aren’t the same skills and you got like a blast and a throwable stun on shield, but my god look at these numbers!? 6 sec -> 30 sec / ~10 sec -> 40 sec

Shouldn’t the shield be the most rewarding defensive option a profession has to offer?? I know the skills 1-5 are sorted by CD, but the guard has exactly the same problem: Skill 4-5 are just too weak for their CD on the shield. They evaded this rule at the mesmer by reducing the CD of skill 5 when you catch it again … Why not just drop that silly “rule” since it’s no help anyway …

I’ve always thought the shield cooldowns were hefty.

The Hammer 4 Block is on a 20 second cooldown, by the way. Not 10, you’re thinking of Rocket Charge.

Kaizoku.1298:

Scrapper’s amount of healing (without healing power)
If you run “shocking speed” and “rapid regeneration” and do 3 leaps in a water field (hammer #3 on 10sec CD) you get an amount of healing equal to 5625 in 3 seconds.

3 leap finishers in a water field = 3900
3 seconds of superspeed + swiftness = 1725

I also plan on using “streamlined kits” toolkit effect and slick shoes (toolbelt – 5 secs of superspeed). And there are even more ways to get superspeed
I am so tempted to play the scrapper and find out how good it is !

You’re missing something pretty fundamental here,

Shocking Speed (3s Superspeed) only procs off of leaping or blasting a Lightning Field, not a Water Field like you are doing. So Shocking Speed is limited by the 10s ICD as well as limited by the amount of Lightning Fields you include in the build.

Personally, I’m definitely not going to be running Gyro heavy build with the Grandmaster dropping Lightning Fields on their death. Soooo. Unless you do, Shocking Speed is quite bad, at 3 seconds of Super Speed when using your Hammer #5 combo abilities on a 24 second gated cooldown.

This isn’t saying that a Scrapper’s healing won’t be a problem. It very well could be, with this triple leap business.

Livmused.6271:

Why would you use Ferocious Strikes with Sword/Shield? Isn’t that only for dual wielding?

Sword/Shield is a dual wield and activates Ferocious Strikes

Stilgar.6437:

Abjured ran “only” 2 eles because Nos (Nox?) wants to play necro. If he didnt go to wts they would have replaced him with 3rd ele most likely. 3 ele is stronger then 2 ele in general, its just that most skilled teams atm have players that want to play other classes. OL was at a clear disadvantage by not running multiple eles. They just wanted to play what they are comfortable with.

I don’t think any kind of anti-class stacking mechanics will be needed for the WTS, simply because going beyond 2 Eles is not the kind of comp you want to have vs. comps with higher payoff when executed flawlessly. In the Go4Cups, yes, stacking classes (Eles) has been modified to limit that. It’s good as is.

You’re using some hella slippery slope logic here to assume what comp the Abjured would run if profession biases (Like Nos to Necro, or me to Engineer) didn’t exist. Celestial Ele on paper is rated higher than Soldier’s Engineer as well, so why not just declare 4 Celestial Ele to be the supreme comp? I’ll explain.

My opinion is that despite Ele being the best pick by itself, 4 Eles are much less flexible in group utility than one would think.

Having the best sustained healing and damage in one package certainly does scream OP, but at a point when Necros are consistently landing insane burn transfers and weakness stacks, Mesmers popping clutch portals, Engineers maximizing opportunities created by inflicting Moa on 3 people at a time, Guardians get every revive, or Warriors connect with might-stacked Rampage, an Ele’s safe & cushy sustained damage and healing become overshadowed.

It’s just a matter of being able to make those more difficult plays occur commonly, instead of just sustaining, that’s what makes GW2 PvP so challenging. Having two Eles, or one Ele and one Bunker Guardian, or a less popular equivalent, this is a what’s needed to be successful in capture point management. Somebody’s got to sustain.

In my opinion, the Eles seeping into the third and fourth picks in some team’s comps is a temporary side effect of Ele skills applying a ton of burning. I’m not sure anyone doubts that some toning down to Eles will be done.

Josh Davis.6015:

So, I can’t go into much detail on things quite yet, but I just wanted to reassure you folks that we’re actively discussing a number of issues that are affecting balance in PvP – including, but not limited to elementalist sustain/damage.

^Yeah. No other class is stack-able to the third and fourth pick. And there isn’t anything necessarily wrong with having two of the same class on a team.

Double Warrior, Double Guardian, or Double Engineer, these all have a time and place, and isn’t necessarily indicative of bad balancing, sometimes just good synergy & counters.

http://imgur.com/a/foIKX

Check out these skills, guys.

With icons that clearly show the skill’s purpose is to direct the Drone’s movement to a certain area, it really makes it quite likely that they’ll function a lot like Ventari’s Tablet from the Revenant.

Add in the fact we have these ‘Shield’ and ‘Heal’ areas around the Drone, it seems logical we’ll be micromanaging their positions and then using their abilities.

So, little to no A.I.

There’s been huge outcry and requests for more game modes, far from nobody, over the years. We just don’t feel as turned on by stronghold as we should

I hope it’s a HoT only feature. Cause PvP players need feel catered to with this expansion’s content. My opinion is that it will be HoT only.

I mean, I see the appeal in all the new features just coming for free, but let’s just hope ArenaNet doesn’t go that route and has actual good expansion content.

meeflak.9714:

Can someone please post a link to a video of this…. I was buying a house and missed it… I need to see it .-. Can’t find it anywhere

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/10124128

Cheers!

Morwath.9817:

Saiyan.1704:

Dude, you can’t ban items that are allowed in 5v5 tournament play. No competitive team will participate in this if you ban something.

Are you sure? Grenadier trait was banned during ESL, all ‘competitive’ teams played.
Honestly, there is not much difference between banning bugged and/or broken stuff… for example I would rather watch tournament with some stuff banned (e.g. some D/D toys to promote diversity) than tournament without bans (reason I don’t watch ESLs anymore – they are boring).

P.S.
People usualy compete to win rewards, not because something is or isn’t banned.

And I’m sure if Thieves Guild and Lich did bugged double damage they’d be banned too.

nickarthur.5061:

The Rule-book was made to balance game play and comps that are either far too powerful or broken.And yes things have been banned in other tournaments and leagues in the past (Another league banned the Warrior Banner because teams would run a full nomad tank warrior with banner and the game would go on for an unreasonable amount of time)

For Ex: a Comp of full rampage warriors would be a ridiculously broken comp allowing 5 rampages to tear through the map with relatively no damage taken from white damage or condition pressure, Arena Net hasn’t yet balenced Rampage and some other skills effectively enough for organized 5v5, but if things change the rule-book will be altered.

You should look to some more established 5v5 events.

You’ll see that Lich Necros and Thieves Guilds Thieves are not pooping on everybod (anybody?).

Sykper.6583:

You know the RNG-cursed Engineers will disagree with you, right?

Yeah, queue the gambling Engineer 2c:

@OP, Don’t forget to budget the power of having full control, RNG carries risk, and risk requires a higher payout for the same return. There’s also the punishment of Tornado over being regular Engineer. Rolling Tornado very often costs precious seconds & pressure at a clutch moment (down cleave).

Factor in peak performance being a beast trait, and natural Rampage synergy with pre-casting Berserker stance, Rampage still > Elixir X.

The gap between Rampage and Elixir X has been further reduced though, as of this patch, no doubt.

Without the smallest bit of fanboyism, the process of approving Gem rewards turns out to be extremely time consuming. So much so that to complete each request as it comes would drastically cut into meetings and project time.

Clearly it’s not ideal, and as players, all hope that it gets either delegated or automated in at least some small measure.

Fault the process not the Arenanet employees

If you play pvp, try the flame thrower build that I use, go to the twitch in my sig and then scroll down to the rabid build.

Ithilwen.1529:

Engineer condition conversion is happening way too fast. Engineers are are able to convert conditions so fast that it actually benefits them to be hit with conditions.

That trait that enables Elixir Gun to convert conditions into boons, that’s pretty much all for allies and very little for the Engineer.

It mostly works with Fumigate (5 condi removal in cone, none to Engineer). Super Elixir will convert a condition into a boon for the Engineer.

If this extremely bad trait, compared to alternatives for personal survival is really a source of grief for you, I dunno what to say m8

Novuake.2691:

Things I want :
I want condi engi back,
i want bomb engi back in all its forms, condi, hybrid and power options(none seem worth it)
I want Over Shield to MEAN something.
I want adept Firearms to feel impactful, not some arbitrary numbers.
I don’t want Adrenal implant to dominate Tools GMs and still not stack with vigor on Tools minors.
I want Thermobaric Discharge to actually see use! Such a cool idea.
I want Siege Rounds to not just be for one single Elite and the other two pointless for most builds.

What are you do you want?

That’s a pretty good wishlist.

My wants:

• Bombs Radius bugfixed to be 240 again.

• Rifled Barrels baseline, as outlined in the specialization reveal.

• Coated Bullets baseline, as outlined in the specialization reveal.

• Pistol’s Explosive Shot and Rifle’s Jump Shot considered an explosion, as outlined in the specialization reveal.

• Glass Cannon: What the hell. The name, the 5% bonus, the 90% health threshold, every text and number on this is silly. How about either fix this so it’s useful for ‘Glass Cannon’ builds: “Gain 300 power. Lose power based on your Toughness stat increases. (25% of Toughness over base.) Or convert it into a non-grenade based Condition trait.

• Shaped Charge: 5% Damage to Vulnerable Foes, it should be more all purpose. Shaped Charge: Vulnerability you cause is 25% more potent. Now Non-Bomb Condi builds can have something in this tier, and it’s still a great PvE trait.

• Thermobaric Detonation: Currently, there’s no Grandmaster power trait in the power traitline, unless you’re running Mortar. Thermobaric Detonation should be useful to all builds, especially non-mortar power builds. If it upgraded the Dodge bomb in a useful way to more power builds, that’d be a positive change.

• Modified Ammunition: Currently, Modified Ammunition is a great PvE trait, but there really needs to be a Rifle Grandmaster trait. Firearms has three purposes, to provide a path for Rifle users, Flamethrower Users, and Pistol users. The Flamethrower and Condi Grandmasters are there, but Modified Ammunition is too PvE specific, and pretty much impossible for most Power Engineers to even activate it. Needs tweaking to have synergy with Rifle builds.

• Gadgeteer: Did absolutely nothing to change Gadgets. . Just make Gadgeteer add 20% CDR to all gadgets permanently, and all gadgets activate the overcharged effect. The charges could be accumulated when a Gadget is used instead, and each charge could make your next attack unblockable, or another unique effect.

• Juggernaut: This trait has always been super user unfriendly. Can this now be an on-swap, with a 10s ICD? Adjust the boons accordingly.

That’s my synergy wishlist.

Arantheal.7396:

Seriously!?
No wonder that everyone “up there” is feeling nothing but salt towards the engi if they run crap like this.
I don’t even know where to start with, since this is literally having no synergy in itself whatsoever…

I guess I start with the gear and get trough it from there.
Marauder in itself is fine, but why the heck would you choose shrapnel as grandmaster then when you have next to zero mightstacking, nor any condi-dmg!?
With nades you need to go close-range anyways, so why pick the pointless explosives line, instead of going rifle-arms? With nades, even the first minor is better than shrapnel, and the additional crit-chance you’d get out of it would increase your dmg output way beyond your current trait-setup.
Powder keg has a 10sec icd, as well as rockets, so pick a whole line for exactly 2 procs!?
the only long-range snare you have is the rifle AA anyways, so why not running skilled marksman instead?
Sure, the 10% extra dmg on the 3rd minor is nice, but modified ammunition would give you even more dmg…
And then you take reactive lenses, the worst stunbreaker trait ever, since it procs off of blind as well…
why not power-wrench for the more frequent magnet pull & block?
And then we have self-regulating defense, the fastest way into downstate if your opponent happens to run condis… what many builds these days do.
But hey, you run moa. Seems this build really needs that carry…

I mean, you think my post is worth of a facepalm, and then post this… garbage!?
I really don’t care who’s running that, all I KNOW for certain is that they can’t deal with the idea of giving up the old cele rifle and try so hard to keep it alive that it borders on comedy.
Whatever “organized” group is struck with such an engi, I feel sorry for them. I will not deny that i lack the reaction-times to compete with tournament players, but if that’s what they commonly agreed on to run as engi, they severely sabotage themselves…

Thanks for the critique.

When I run this build in an organized team setting, not only do I or my teammates not feel salt toward Engineer’s poor performance, but with proper cooldown usage, and a little luck, you can massively impact fights.

This is for 3 reasons:

• Ability to totally strip and flip people’s big abilities, often long cooldowns such as Plague/Death Shroud, Rampage by using Moa Morph.

• Downed cleave. Simply rolling my Elixir X in the moments before an enemy goes down, that’s resulted in more quadra kills than I can highlight reel. A Marauder profession Rampage, firing Air/Fire Sigils, Dodge Bombs, and Aim-Assisted Rockets, it’s really hard to revive against this. This is the big synergy that most people just don’t understand. No Soldiers, Rabid, or Cele can Rampage half as well.

• It’s survivable vs. top tier picks (Enemy Cele Eles are the highest condition output in which you have to deal with.) High invulnerability, block & stealth uptime. Get healed and cleansed by friendly Eles when you’re on the defensive. I don’t expect a competitive team to field even a single rabid/carrion profession, and even so, the extra 4-7 condition removals a minute from the Elixir procs make it just about as good as you’ll get vs. conditions, anyway.

Your individual trait comments:

• Why Shrapnel: Shrapnel’s cripple is more useful than traiting a non-existant Mortar, I would consider Thermobaric Detonation to be occasionally useful, just difficult to milk given the user’s positioning, normally. I advise against running Firearms over Explosives. Grenadier Radius & Speed, 2 damage Procs, raw percentage of team damage increased through vulnerability, 10 percent explosion damage, Turret Knockback, and crippling grenades, this is better than the two conditional crit chance boosts, 20 percent CDR to Rifle, and Modified Ammunition. Just remember, this is a teamfighting build, it’s really about chucking the nades there.

• Power Wrench over Reactive Lenses: Wrench is a great trait, use both Power Wrench and Reactive Lenses as you see fit. I do.

• Self-Regulating Defenses being a free ticket into the downed state: Again, nobody runs conditions in top tier, but Self-Regulating Defenses is pure gold when getting focus in teamfights, which I purposefully put myself in those situations now.

• Clinging on to old Cele Rifle functionality: far from m8, if I was doing that, I’d be using Soldier’s Amulet with Slick Shoes to 1v1 hero on side points like I was doing pre-patch. Giving up all 1v1 focus in order to swing teamfights is the most aggressive adaptation that I’ve ever done in a while.

Arantheal.7396:

Whatever “organized” group is struck with such an engi, I feel sorry for them.

I’ll pass the message along

choovanski.5462:

Dahkeus.8243:

Hvaran.6327:

Soldier – wuot for so tank?

Mesmers.

It’s also more of a Hambow-like role with a bigger focus on CC since you don’t have to disengage or pop a defensive cooldown everything someone looks at you.

BigZan played a great soldiers engi in the last EU monthly. it’s a valuable build. just watch the games to see.

Yeah, I saw. He even ditched Mortar for Elixir X, the set vs. ORNG.

Cause you could potentially pop into Moa and get a free movement skill & evade, and then cancel, instead of just getting Tornado and cancelling it.

Also, people you transform couldn’t use the Moa evade, but they’d have 10,000 additional health. Haha.

It’s a funny proposal.

choovanski.5462:

Chaith.8256:

choovanski.5462:

Chaith.8256:

Saiyan.1704:

Engi are one of those classes that brings a variety of useful tools to a team fight. Their variety happens to work out really well in certain situations but the fact that they can be outplayed, means they’re not as overpowered as other classes seem to be.

Dahkeus.8243:

Saiyan.1704:

Chaith.8256:

I just think the power to 1v2 and kite really well is a lesser power to unique Moa plays in larger fights, Stealth/Invuln revives, high time to kill when focused, and downed cleave that probably only a Zerker Warrior could match.

For the sake of curiousness, what do Engi’s offer in downed cleaves that tops that of Warriors and Guardians? It’s hard to imagine an Engi going anywhere near the damage these two classes can produce in team fights.

Poison and blind at the same time and you can cleave from a distance.

As I thought, tools that help other people cleave. That doesn’t mean they’re the best cleavers themselves, which was what I was refering to. There’s no way they can reach the 7k+ AoE powerhouse of Warriors and Guardians that Chaith was refering to… unless i’m missing something.

Poison Nades had their damage buffed to match Chill, they can do 4500 damage to glassy people combined. Grenade Barrage & Nade spam is very key with added and buffed Vulnerability. Really though, what I attempt to do each fight is roll the dice for Rampage and really hit it home. A Marauder Amulet class with Air/Fire and chance on hit to proc Rockets, it’s a scary thing m8

we all pray for rampage. still tornado can deny resses like nothing else.

In my experience it’s not worth, try to roll Elixir X a couple seconds before something goes down so you have time to cancel your Tornado and do real cleave

eh, if its a necro in a teamfight you can sometimes just stunlock them with tornado. it’s a great moment. my pal runs a marauders HGH build and his tornado hits so hard with might he splatters people with it. it’s much more of a niche skill but you can make it work, especially vs necros.

if you can stick on one or two dudes (speed up w dodge rolls) and spam blinds and launch you can mess them up pretty bad.

True that.

Don’t forget Marauder Engi messes up people pretty bad too!

choovanski.5462:

Chaith.8256:

Saiyan.1704:

Engi are one of those classes that brings a variety of useful tools to a team fight. Their variety happens to work out really well in certain situations but the fact that they can be outplayed, means they’re not as overpowered as other classes seem to be.

Dahkeus.8243:

Saiyan.1704:

Chaith.8256:

I just think the power to 1v2 and kite really well is a lesser power to unique Moa plays in larger fights, Stealth/Invuln revives, high time to kill when focused, and downed cleave that probably only a Zerker Warrior could match.

For the sake of curiousness, what do Engi’s offer in downed cleaves that tops that of Warriors and Guardians? It’s hard to imagine an Engi going anywhere near the damage these two classes can produce in team fights.

Poison and blind at the same time and you can cleave from a distance.

As I thought, tools that help other people cleave. That doesn’t mean they’re the best cleavers themselves, which was what I was refering to. There’s no way they can reach the 7k+ AoE powerhouse of Warriors and Guardians that Chaith was refering to… unless i’m missing something.

Poison Nades had their damage buffed to match Chill, they can do 4500 damage to glassy people combined. Grenade Barrage & Nade spam is very key with added and buffed Vulnerability. Really though, what I attempt to do each fight is roll the dice for Rampage and really hit it home. A Marauder Amulet class with Air/Fire and chance on hit to proc Rockets, it’s a scary thing m8

we all pray for rampage. still tornado can deny resses like nothing else.

In my experience it’s not worth, try to roll Elixir X a couple seconds before something goes down so you have time to cancel your Tornado and do real cleave

Saiyan.1704:

Engi are one of those classes that brings a variety of useful tools to a team fight. Their variety happens to work out really well in certain situations but the fact that they can be outplayed, means they’re not as overpowered as other classes seem to be.

Dahkeus.8243:

Saiyan.1704:

Chaith.8256:

I just think the power to 1v2 and kite really well is a lesser power to unique Moa plays in larger fights, Stealth/Invuln revives, high time to kill when focused, and downed cleave that probably only a Zerker Warrior could match.

For the sake of curiousness, what do Engi’s offer in downed cleaves that tops that of Warriors and Guardians? It’s hard to imagine an Engi going anywhere near the damage these two classes can produce in team fights.

Poison and blind at the same time and you can cleave from a distance.

As I thought, tools that help other people cleave. That doesn’t mean they’re the best cleavers themselves, which was what I was refering to. There’s no way they can reach the 7k+ AoE powerhouse of Warriors and Guardians that Chaith was refering to… unless i’m missing something.

Poison Nades had their damage buffed to match Chill, they can do 4500 damage to glassy people combined. Grenade Barrage & Nade spam is very key with buffed Vulnerability. Really though, what I attempt to do each fight is roll the dice for Rampage and really hit it home. A Marauder Amulet class Rampage with Air/Fire and chance on hit to proc Rockets, it’s a scary thing m8

I like having increased grenade accuracy.

No complaints here

zinkz.7045:

Chaith seems to have let’s say an optimistic attitude toward engies, but if you actually watched and listened to what he said, even with that attitude you could see the problems, for example:

- He didn’t even bother engaging a d/d ele because they are “indestructible”.

- After doing a stealth Moa / rampage on a mesmer he stated that was pretty much his only chance to beat a mesmer (the mesmer still lived).

- He pointed out that what was engys viable build was dead (cele rifle engi) because they moved incendiary ammo into fire arms, so to get a similar level of performance now you would need to have access to 4 trait lines now.

- That whilst that IA nerf actually made engy balanced, other classes like Mesmer, Ele, etc had huge power creep from the changes.

- That the soldiers engy some people play is worthless, as why play engy when other classes/builds like d/d ele can do that job much better.

And so on… And that is from someone who is “optimistic” in attitude, go watch some other engies who stream / play in teams who basically sum engy up as a piece of kitten in its current situation and are playing classes other than engy due to that.

Deng, someone was listening last night.

So when you commit a build to teamfighting utility, yes, fighting the strongest duelist in the game 1v1 is not a winning position. Marauder builds should not engage a D/D Ele 1v1, with the exception of perhaps a Mesmer.

Rampage and Moa are made for team players. While it’s amusing to Stealth, Rampage, Hurl Boulder and Dash an unsuspecting Mesmer in the roads for a big burst, it’s not really the proper usage or maximum value. If a Mesmer blew all his biggest burst on me, there’s an incredibly massive chance I’d just easily disengage as well, too.

It’s really not a problem to avoid 1v1s, it’s a team game after all.

It’s really common to see Soldier Engineers playing extremely well and being an asset to their team, on EU. I just think the power to 1v2 and kite really well is a lesser power to unique Moa plays in larger fights, Stealth/Invuln revives, high time to kill when focused, and downed cleave that probably only a Zerker Warrior could match.

It’s more about pursuing the role with the most potential value

Phineas Poe.3018:

Thoughts?

Looks like a really good condi build for PvP.

Here are some things to consider

• Mortar having little synergy with Condition builds, supply crate I would argue is better.

• The nerfed Backpack Regenerator still seems weak compared to Self-Regulating Defenses, being affected by HgH.

• Running Bunker Down and Elixir S is almost impossible m8. You will get revealed from stealth so many times and die horribly.

• You’re using a trait that gives you Condition Damage based on your PRECISION, so, equip Rabid.

• Having to run Energy Sigil, that is pretty suck. Geomancy will boost your pressure tremendously. If you go rabid you get another free sigil, like Doom! Which currently is broken and applies like 14s poisons.

Try this:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-ZRR;2cP-9-u53UFx0;9;4jml;0038136146;4T-1;35NV05NV02C

Twigifire.8379:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-Z70;2cPVg0f63U-x0;9;4ijm;0037248237;4hk0;3oHAhoHAha0Z

I’ve been running this with Cele Engi to quite some success.

That’s in the same vein of what I arrived at for a Celestial Engi, patch day #1 too.

Then I saw Fire D/D / Fire D/F Cele Eles and I knew that the Engi counterpart was obsolete.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Chaith.8256:

Next point, don’t 1v1 any duel oriented professions. Absolutely no Cele Eles, Necros, Non-Power Rangers. It’s devastatingly average at 1v1s and there are many exceptional 1v1 builds.

If you want to 1v1 delete your Engi or pray to Grouch. I mean, Cele Engi beats lots of things, but just can’t hang with the real 1v1 Cele professions anymore.

Confirms some of my own fears. I have a pretty awful time against necros and eles right now. Have you tried anything not using the Grenade Kit yet?

I’ve found I’ve had mixed results with the Bomb Kit and with FT/EG HGH, but found FT/EG very effective in sustained team fights. Given what you just said about engineer veering more toward that role, I was wondering if you’ve dabbled with it or any alternatives at all.

Not yet have I explored all the teamfight builds, due to my scepticism of many other things being able get around high focus fire, while still dealing extreme pressure and offering high utility.

If there could be a Bomb/Ft/E-Gun that wouldn’t fall over to focus fire, and could still carry with damage, I’d be open to maining it. But really, if you’re not blocking for 3 seconds, proccing Prot Injection, invuln for 7.5 seconds and stealthing for 6-12 seconds, you’re just really dead from my experience.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Chaith.8256:

Haha.

I do really like the current Engineer build that I’ve arrived at. It’s an expert teamfight carry, and using Moa Toss, it’s really anti-Rampage warrior, Necro, even Stoneheart Ele, which means it’s simply a huge counter pick. Huge cleave, utility (nullify Death Shroud, Stone Heart, Rampage), great combat medic with a transform, double invuln & many stealth.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-Z70;2cPVg0u53Ukw0;9;4ilm;0037146136;4IN0;3F-03F-03a0d

I notice you’re not running Backpack Generator. I was wondering myself if the trait was really worth taking any longer due to how strong condition damage is these days.

My only concern is that it might lock you into invulnerability with burning damage still ticking on you; do you find this to be a problem often? Or is this something you deal with anyway simply to get around mesmer burst?

Also, what would you say are your toughest match-ups 1v1 with this spec?

Backpack Regenerator previously applied an invisible 10 second buff that had 100% uptime by switching kits regularly. Now, Backpack Regenerator does exactly as described, only having uptime when your kits have uptime. So cut the 114 healing or whatever by 35-40%, and see if you still care about it on a Marauder build. It’s great in E-Gun Cele builds.

Next point, don’t 1v1 any duel oriented professions. Absolutely no Cele Eles, Necros, Non-Power Rangers. It’s devastatingly average at 1v1s and there are many exceptional 1v1 builds.

If you want to 1v1 delete your Engi or pray to Grouch. I mean, Cele Engi beats lots of things, but just can’t hang with the real 1v1 Cele professions anymore.

ellesee.8297:

Cele is donezo! Your offensive pressure is all but gone in exchange for increased sustain from the Inventions tree (but not really enough to matter when it counts)! Or you could keep your offensive pressure but lose all mobility which defeats the purpose of the roaming nature of the build! Also the Speedy Kits/Invigorating Speed combo is gone! Condi builds are in the same boat! Finally, the age of power Engi is here! Somewhere in Canada, Chaith is pooping himself with joy! Nobody likes power Engis more than him!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Haha.

I do really like the current Engineer build that I’ve arrived at. It’s an expert teamfight carry, and using Moa Toss, it’s really anti-Rampage warrior, Necro, even Stoneheart Ele, which means it’s simply a huge counter pick. Huge cleave, utility (nullify Death Shroud, Stone Heart, Rampage), great combat medic with a transform, double invuln & many stealths.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-Z70;2cPVg0u53Ukw0;9;4ilm;0037146136;4IN0;3F-03F-03a0d

Edit: It is only a consolation though, Celestial Engineer was near the top of the food chain, and it’s absolutely eclipsed by 1v1 focused Eles and Necros so hard that building to 1v1 Eles is quite foolish and will land your team in the dumpster.

To find a build that excels, purity of purpose has to be won back, and the next best thing to being a 1v1 force to be reckoned with is to migrate is towards being the strongest teamfighter possible.

So at the moment, I feel like Engineer has very little viable build diversity. The most un-flexible it’s ever been, but maybe I will rethink that as the meta settles further.

ShadowAce.5432:

Here I’ll explain again with some math to help ppl understand.

You throw 7 nades.
It pierces and hits.
Nades land and explode hits 7x again.

7 × 2 = 14. You have a potential to hit a single target 14x under the current piercing change.

People who say nades are throwing double and are not actually piercing are incorrect.

Damage on barrage needs to be corrected but after all other damage variables have been normalized or everything is going to be yo-yoing around.

You should do a few more tests:

Throw a Grenade Barrage as far as you can with Grenadier traited, and count the grenades as they fly. There’s 13 by my count.

Throw a Grenade Barrage slightly in front of the target to ensure no piercing occurs. Try again, but aim for maximum piercing by throwing it behind the target.

The results are 13, 13, and 13. Grenade Barrage is throwing 13 Grenades by all reasonable tests, if seeing 13 Grenades flying through the air isn’t enough to convince you.

All the other nades are piercing, besides the Grenade Barrage, hitting between 3-6 times depending on how you position yourself and aim the grenades. When I’m casually tossing nades often I score 4 hits.

PierPiero.9142:

I don’t think it is a bug but it seems to me an unwanted behaviour, anet did not expect a similar effect.

I respect that, but quite simply the Grenade Barrage when traited has the number of grenades thrown glitched, and it’s reading 13 when it should be reading as 7.

The other grenade attacks piercing could be called an unintended (or undocumented, but intended) behavior.

F.A.Q for people:

• With Grenadier, Grenade barrage is throwing 13 grenades, when it’s supposed to throw 7.

• Piercing is irrelevant to Grenade Barrage. Grenade Barrage hits are not piercing, even while traited.

• With Grenadier, normal #1-5 Grenades are piercing now, meaning if you are able to physically connect the Grenade projectile, and also connect the explosion (ie, aim right behind the target), each grenade can hit up to twice with a flawless throw.

• With the natural spread of grenades, you have to be point blank and aiming behind the target to double hit each grenades. Possibly game breaking in PvE, not practical to capitalize on in PvP.

• Grenade Barrage is also not benefiting from Toolbelt Cooldown Reduction.

Reduce grenades thrown from 13 to 7 when Grenadier is equipped, and then Grenadier will be playable. This should have been hotfixed yesterday..

Currently, piercing Grenades are not documented, or asked for, due to the applications to PvE / PvP, this should be re-evaluated on whether it should stay in the game or not.

Grenadier is banned in in every organized PvP interaction, can this please be fixed so grenades can be usable

So many ‘hard counters’ posed by the OP that don’t exist,

Also something great used to negate hard counters 1v1, is to not have that person ever in a dueling role.

How many DPS Guards ever have to 1v1 a Cele Ele? Play in the larger fights and never look back.

The Baws.5164:

Well my only contribution so far is that I hope the Mortar Kit is really good.

The reason why I picked Engineer to learn is so that I can have grenades to rain down on people from afar, whilst also being a really strong class in mid-range skirmishing.

With Grenade Kit having its range reduced from 1500 (who uses grenades without Grenadier?) to 900, I might genuinely stop playing Engineer when this patch hits unless Mortar Kit can fill that gap well in a way that feels fun.

Also, I’m pretty sure that Short Fuse isn’t being removed as I remember someone talking about it making bombs have an actual shorter fuse – as in shorter time to detonation.

Short Fuse functionality is being removed, there will be no way to reduce the CD of bombs and grenades, which is what Short Fuse is. The new Short Fuse is only the current Short Fuse in name only.

All well thought out ideas, like a sir. I think baking some of the nerfs to power Engi back into the Firearms line would be great plan.

Honestly, I pray the Engineer Elite specialization will provide the supporting utilities for a coherent power build with substance, and Firearms just plays off of that.

Don’t try too hard to define Explosives as a power traitline. It shouldn’t be, Grenades and Bombs, the explosives in question are all hybrid, and bombs leaning completely on the condition side. The corresponding specialization for these utilities should be of a similar purpose.

Remember that Firearms still needs a condition oriented trait in the Adept department, I’d have to insist there be one there. Yes, it’s quite tiresome that Conditions go from effective to laughable based on the size of engagements.

What if some experimentation was done with a very limited number of abilities applying a condition that was not able to be removed with general purpose condition removal?

It’d certainly provide a big incentive to bring that ability along, if it had the power to apply a single short duration slow to everyone entering a choke, or something. I think you know what I’m getting at.

That would involve new technology though. Generally, conditions across the entire game have fallen to the wayside, outside of extremely small roaming in WvW/PvP. Some updates to the condition application/removal mechanics via traits could be nice.

@CDR based on actions per minute, I think I have no problem with that.

@Modified Ammunition, it could definitely replace Target the Maimed, and a new power-oriented Master trait could replace it. It’s a passive damage boost and is pretty disappointing as a ‘choice’ to take.

@Net Attacks doing a 200 dash forward, I just can’t picture that animation, lol.

@Incendiary Powder, whatever, as long as it functions well, and people who maximize invuln frames and aim to dodge every auto-attack don’t become too effective at mitigating all damage.

MonMalthias.4763:

This isn’t a bad trait, but I think it’s clear that Anet wants to make Explosives the direct damage focus and Firearms the Condi focus. I’m not averse to the Teldo build though; and this iteration definitely gives Rabid Bombs good pressure.

One thing I would like to see is for bombs to be thrown forward as baseline to improve their offensive capability and their telegraph.

Chaith.8256:

Firearms Adept: New Pistol Trait, Condition Focus.

• Potent Coagulants: Reduced recharge on Pistol skills by 20%. Foes entering Glue attacks are inflicted with Slow (4s). Foes may only be affected once. This trait will strengthen Pistol offhand’s Glue Shot utility, as well as promote synergy between Glue Bomb, Glue Trail, and Condition builds, especially in larger fights.

I don’t know about this one. Slow being anti-Quickness is extremely powerful because it also increases cast times. I would rather Immobilise durations be increased for Glue attacks. 1 second is not great; especially now that 30% Condition duration is lost.

In unfriendly environments not conducive to spamming Bomb1 (All but instanced PvE and Frontline WvW), Bombs are entirely condition based. There will be a ton of condition users opting for Explosives, a the traits lay right now. Observe the Grandmaster Shrapnel trait and Pistol getting explosion status, if you have your doubts!

Also, my Glue suggestion was primarily for the large scale WvW applications of the game, as everybody game-wide is going to be chained to them. Engineers are pretty lacking in large scale deathmatch utility. I think the sheer amounts of blasts that are becoming available to Engineers will help that cause slightly, but it’s still a demographic that should be catered to.

MonMalthias.4763:

Chaith.8256:

Tools Master: TBD.

• Gadgeteer. Reduced recharge of Gadgets by 20%. After a gadget is used, gain Utility Goggles for 3 Seconds.

So…you have triple stunbreak on your bar with infini-Fury? I can abuse this with Throw Mine/PBR for much lulz. That said, Zerker Engi looks to be supremely nerfed with the changes so I’m not averse to something ridiculous to bring it back. I would much rather have active condi cleanse for Gadgets though. Getting DOTted and kited to death is how a Burst Engi usually dies. That, or getting shrekt by a real Zerker class like Thief or Mesmer; who have more options to dictate positioning. Maybe make Slick Shoes a Shadowstep?

About Utility Goggles on Gadget use, of course only the utility skill can stunbreak. It’s like gaining Super Speed when using Kit Refinement. Not a stunbreaker.

But yeah, I’ve reiterated on a lot of different things:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DQV1ohFOqlhOZ4cxM2nTQTU_M1zS41xA86sf5gHSofY/edit?pli=1#gid=0

The GW2 forums have been so wonky lately, only 1 in 10 of my attempts to edit my posts go through.

I am also really concerned for Berserker Engineer… I feel Engineer Zerker builds amongst other professions are already ranked 8 out of 8 in the context of usefulness outside of PvE.

So much to my disappointment, we’re seeing:

• Deletion of Rifle Mod, Enduring Damage, offsetting any bonuses gained by Rifled Barrels going baseline
• No useful Grandmaster Firearms trait for a Rifle Engineer who doesn’t want to depend on allies to activate Modified Ammunition. (lolwut).
• Static Discharge and Power Wrench competing.

I suggested moving Modified Ammunition down to Master, and moving the ‘Rifle/Speargun’ trait up into a new Grandmaster to Firearms:

• ((Rifle/Speargun Trait: Reduced Recharge on Rifle/Speargun by 20%. Net attacks now deal damage and track foes. Reduced the velocity of net attacks by 20%. 391 Damage. .42 coef))

Also, I made some other swaps to Tools that would also cater to non-Rabid/Cele builds.

For instance, putting Adrenal Implant down into Adept, and Power Wrench back to Master, so both can be taken, as well as buffing Adrenal Implant for Engineers opting to not use Static Discharge friendly utilities.

• Adrenal Implant & ((Gain Fury (3s) on wielding a Melee weapon or bundle. 10s ICD.))

naphack.9346:

That’s a lie.

You don’t have to believe me, but there’s also a catch in the wording. I am telling you it’s a technical limitation, not an impossibility. What’s more likely is that the solution involves enough backtracking and would consume enough resources for it to not be considered “worth”.

I am not out to deceive anyone, it’s just that scaling turrets have been the completely logical solution since they were a flicker in ArenaNet’s eye. And everything is illogical about Turrets.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Chaith.8256:

Cleaning Formula 409 is definitely not a worthy Tools Grandmaster. I think it’s extremely likely it’ll be buffed or modified when ArenaNet actually does a pass through Tools (no new traits yet.)

What bases do you declare it is not worthy?

What cause you to think it will change, test beta feedback?

Based on precedent of many non-meta traits getting a large power boost, and this one is getting nerfed in availability to elixir build, and going to Grandmaster. It’s the nerfs that make me suspect a buff

Aidenwolf.5964:

Necrotize.2974:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Chaith.8256:

“Turrets weren’t an abomination, Celestial amulets are.”

“Simply a L2P issue.”

“Turrets were the purest form of Engineer.”

The feeling of loss will pass, and you will hopefully walk a mile in a non-turret Engineer’s shoes in ranked queue. My enjoyment in ranked queue has gone up 900% due to less presence of Turret Engineers. While I feel sympathy for those who’ve had their playstyle destroyed (RIP 100 nades), you cannot ever propose a good enough argument that would justify causing even 1 more flavor-of-the-month Turret Engineer in ranked queue.

I have run Cele rifle quite a bit but the class as I played it no longer exists. I have no desire to quit my playstle as my engi was my bunker toon. Engineers were designed to do exactly what I used mine for and need to be fixed.

So basically you’re saying that turrets were the only way to play engineer the way they were designed and without nigh-unkillable turrets our class is essentially useless? Only issue I had with the nerf was conditions affecting them as it doesn’t make sense, but crits make perfect sense and was a nerf that I think was dearly needed. Engineer has the potential to have more skills than any class(aside from ele) and the fact that almost everyone else was having trouble killing an engineer that sacrificed all those skills just for passive offense is a clear sign of trouble. Passive play should never hardcounter or surpass active play.

You can still play bunker engineer, you just have to sacrifice some offensive pressure now like everyone else.

Turrets were unaffected by the player’s stat choice so they would do the same amount of damage Even if the engineer ran PTV which was where the nerf should’ve focussed. Turret engineers sacrificed everything to run their build meaning we were naked with only a rifle vs any attacks coming out way.

Calling turret engineer a passive play style shows a significant lack of understanding on your and the community’s part. I actively attacked and defended (my life and my point) and to say otherwise is false.

Turrets damage affected by the engineer’s stats would’ve meant that to achieve their current damage output the player would need to gear zerker which would sacrifice survivability and if the engi wanted to run soldiers the damage output would be greatly reduced.

Again, turrets were never designed to take this damage and the entire trait line is ruined now. No changes to cooldowns, no cleanses added, no repair skill introduced, it simply destroys turrets to the cheers of players who run cheese builds they consider superior.

Turrets cannot be affected by player stats due to their status as constructs, or ‘gadgets’ (not the utility type.) It’s a technical limitation.

Everyone’s been saying this for years, but it can’t happen.

Also, I’m not alone in saying, I DO say otherwise when you claim you can play the meta turret build in an ‘active’ measure. You never have to leave the point, and your player input accounts for less than a third of your effectiveness.

Kande.1930:

The changes to grenades don’t bother me nearly as much as the fact that 409 was moved into tools for whatever reason. If that stays, elixir builds will be forced into taking 2 lines and the GM traits in both in order to get the most out of elixirs, which, excluding S, are pretty lackluster.

Really hoping either they buff 409 to the heavens as compensation, or just leave it alone and move it back to alchemy where it belongs.

Cleaning Formula 409 is definitely not a worthy Tools Grandmaster. I think it’s extremely likely it’ll be buffed or modified when ArenaNet actually does a pass through Tools (no new traits yet.)

“Turrets weren’t an abomination, Celestial amulets are.”

“Simply a L2P issue.”

“Turrets were the purest form of Engineer.”

The feeling of loss will pass, and you will hopefully walk a mile in a non-turret Engineer’s shoes in ranked queue. My enjoyment in ranked queue has gone up 900% due to less presence of Turret Engineers. While I feel sympathy for those who’ve had their playstyle destroyed (RIP 100 nades), you cannot ever propose a good enough argument that would justify causing even 1 more flavor-of-the-month Turret Engineer in ranked queue.

vincecontix.1264:

Chaith.8256:

Luku.6542:

I mainly play pvp so is related to this more so than pve. I understand the need for the “nerf” to the turret engineer, but this has now completely messed up the healing turret which for me was the main form of healing.

The turret now often dies before you have a chance to gain anything from it and in most cases dies before it can be detonated, which makes this “nerf” even worse. Why does healing turret have to be part of this nerf? its not OP, not part of a problem? but now it is very hard to use and makes the survivability very bad.

drop the turret on any form of aoe and it dies pretty much as you lay it down and usually before you even have the chance to detonate for the water field heal. These are often the times you need to heal the most and you don’t have time to run 200 mtrs over to the other side of the map to avoid the aoe just so you can drop the turret and get a successful heal.

large and multiple aoe fields with massive condition damage just make this worse, especially when fighting over a capture point

i’m hoping they will fix this, but any suggestions what direction i should go in the mean time? as i’ve now gone from being able to survive a bit of a fight, to dying very quickly….

thx

Well, actually Healing Turret is OP. Try using Med kit, A.E.D, Elixir H, and examine how your sustain changes. Lol.

Maybe a little health boost could be in order, if it’s dying within .5 seconds.

Try dodging away and using it immediately after, should help.

Op on its own or Op when you analyze the entire build when running HT? That said it can be easy at times to stuff up the healing on HT which is something less likely to happen with other heal skills. Anyway things will change when specializations introduced.

OP on it’s own. HT doesn’t depend on any synergy with builds to be far more optimal than any other heal.

It’s objectively better than even a fully traited version of other heals!

Yamsandjams.3267:

I think they’re going to try and stick to one trait per kit. That way, you don’t have to be restricted to more than one line if you want to specialize in a kit, and the trait selections won’t be flooded with kit traits.

The new alchemy line was probably the least fleshed out. I hope the put cleaning formula 409 back up there though, as it simply makes sense in that line (at least compared to tools).

I hadn’t really given much thought as to what the trait for elixir gun should do as the current traits don’t really do anything special. I suppose we could start by having the trait make elixir F not crap and go up from there.

I think Elixir F would be pretty well suited to a tune up, off the specialization books. I think Elixir Gun needs something to reward players to instead use their time to support with it.