Honestly the amount healed isn’t even remotely the problem with Healing Signet. It’s a slight increase in healing over time compared with a Warrior’s over heals with the caveat that it’s weakness is fighting conditions that don’t allow the “over time” aspect to matter much.
Where the problem lies is the play-style it engenders. There is basically no thought given to it because if you are actually thinking about pushing that button you’re better off disengaging anyway.
My solution would be this …
Healing Signet moves to utilities
- Healing reduced to the same level as a Ranger’s Signet of the Wild.
- Active becomes “Cure all conditions”. 45 Second CD
Signet of Stamina moves to the heal slot
- Active becomes to heal a similar amount as Mending currently does.
- Passive remains the same
My idea is probably flawed in some sense, but the way signets themselves work having the passive and active on one signet do basically the same thing at a different rate makes little sense in itself.
Edit Fixed a typo.
The main legitimate concern gets addressed and people immediately start looking for something else to complain about.
People just won’t be happy till all classes except their own get nerfed so far into the ground that they have to lie down to spit on them.
Something like that I guess. Tried to make sure that all the stats had a purpose but I really have no experience with trying to make a build do everything at once.
Well as Ultrajoe said earlier the passive regen on the signet is the only thing passive about utilising the signet as your heal skill.
The simple fact that you just don’t use the active outside of some futile effort to buy 1 measly second frees up the warrior to use the rest of their skill set to support what amounts to basically an extra layer of armour. The key to HS isn’t the regen, it’s the simple fact that it allows the warrior extra actions without worrying about having to save a stun/blind/block etc to open a gap to safely heal. Instead they get to use those in actively mitigating the damage in the first place.
As above, depends on the build …
Other warriors, thieves, rangers and necros tend to be fairly easy. Guardians take a while but tend to be pretty one sided as well.
What makes HS OP isn’t even comboing it with other healing sources. What makes it OP is the ability to use mobility/blocks/stuns/etc to buy time for it to work. Best fix it to reduce the rate of healing to once per 3s when outside 450 range of an enemy and boost the active, so if a Warrior moves away or gets kited he might actually have to consider pressing the heal button.
While I do dislike the almost entirely passive nature of Healing Signet it’s weakness is clear as day. You know ahead of time how the warrior is going to minimize it’s weaknesses so plan your bursts based on how you know they’re going to act.
Other classes healing works this way too btw, just more of those buttons they push to maximize healing output are actual heals.
Going to agree with anastasis on this one. Rush does need fixing but that’s mainly down to tracking and animations. Arcing Slice is really the only part of the weapon kit that doesn’t have a place.
Just a few things …
With Fast hands the second Sigil of energy is completely unnecessary since you’ll just end up overlapping the cd a lot. Swap it for something passive or an on kill sigil.
A full melee build without mobile strikes or some way to purge conditions without reliance on a melee attack is going to level you incredibly vulnerable to anyone with a relatively short cd immobilise.
Lastly the 30hps regen that Dolyak provides would be completely overpowered by the -25% condition duration that Melandru provides in terms of survival.
Nope, retaliation is basically dealt with the same way as condition damage. You’ll never gain a single strike of adrenaline from retal damage.
As someone said earlier, simply activating 100b forces most people instantly into a defensive mindset. That said even if you don’t land a single hit of 100b it can still be used as a psychological tool to force your opponent into a predictable counter which you can then punish with something else.
Any player making enough poor decisions over the course of the fight is going to lose that fight.
The main source of a Warrior’s damage is actually their ability to self-perpetuate “Might” and “Fury” through short cool-down abilities. Remove those from the warrior or give the guardian the same level of offensive buffs through team support and the Guardian quickly runs away from the Warrior as far as sustained damage goes.
Again, as long warriors are closely supervised, they can be strong and powerful.
In a game where everyone is designed from the ground up to be self sufficient for the most part the concept that one class (and only one) should need to have a babysitter to be effective is just plain stupid.
You claim to speak the “truth” like it somehow makes you unimpeachable, yet all you ever post are platitudes, conjecture and personal opinion (seriously, take a look at your own post history). Yes people have a right to declare personal opinion and you claim to support that … right up until anyone disagrees even slightly with your blatant misunderstanding.
It’s pretty much at the point where you adding your “support” to an opinion pretty much invalidates it instantly in the mind of any of the frequent forum-goers.
You are missing the most important part of the conversation here. If you read through the balance notes or other threads, the main complaint is around the healing signet. It is ridiculously OP at the moment. What it needs is a cut to its base heal and an increase to its tie with healing power. If someone wants to run zerker or soldiers, it should heal for less than today. If someone wants to stack more heal power, it should heal for more than today.
Just in case this hasn’t been pointed out enough (in the thousands of times it’s come up) if you think that healing signet is too effective on a guy running a glass cannon build, news flash … that’s not a glass cannon build. Healing Signet even if used in a defensive build will fold to heavy consistent pressure, if you can’t apply it that’s your problem, not the warrior’s.
What percentage of guardians, eles and necros in zerg use staff? Anet, plz nerf staff, so much ppl use it, crazy OP.
I don’t know about guardians or eles, but necros use staff, because it’s their only real long range weapon and it’s good for zerg zupport. If I’m looking to do more damage, I’ll use scepter/dagger combo. If I’m standing on battlement and protecting a fort I’ll use staff. You have to realize several people dropping AOE does not make the AOE overpowered. It’s easy to see, it’s easy to go around, and by no means a one hit kill. Get yourself some condition removal stuff. The problem with nerfing staff is that on it’s own in a 1:1 situation it’s incredibly underpowered compared to any melee class, nerfing it will make it even more useless.
I’m sick of of people complaining about the staff and they’ve been complaining since launch and it’s never been a problem with the staff, it’s usually zerker-type players who have no idea how to fight magic users. You can’t just run through marks and not expect to take damage. You can’t expect to run up to a fort protected by a bunch of magic users and expect to take it easily, if at all…sorry. You’re just a sitting duck while you try to break the door down. If your zerg has less staff users than another, is that really a problem with the staff?
You realise of course he was being sarcastic to mirror how stupid the concept of removing a weapon from pretty much any class is right?
I think it might be the case that he thinks if he says it enough someone might even believe it. Though odds are good that someone will only be himself.
Honestly I think warriors are pretty much where they should be apart from a couple of traits over or under-performing.
The thing is we’ve sort of become used to this sort of thing. The “this one thing is OP so here’s a list of 73 other things to nerf while you’re at it” mentality.
Just swap Opportunist with Unsuspecting Foe and be done with it.
The fact that a wide variety of Warrior builds are viable just seems to lead people to believe that every time a Warrior kills them, with a build specifically designed to kill them, they just go and attribute that to some all powerful build with everything rather than looking into what killed them.
Build diversity isn’t the enemy, it’s something other classes should have too. The fact that specific counter builds aren’t effective with other classes is a problem with your class not the Warrior.
Basically another case of “oh no, a weapon filling it’s role …. nerf nao plz”.
Not working as stated, changed to work as stated. Anet must really hate warriors.
Seriously though as above, bug fixes are not nerfs.
And seeing the warrior running at you isn’t? The difference being that if you dodge RtL early it can still connect, the instant that warrior stops running and initiates the swing, there’s no more movement.
The difference is in the time lapse between the gap being closed and the damage occuring.
I wonder what would happen if they gave rush the treatment they gave ride the lightning…
The effect would just be doubling the cooldown and you might as well not bother with the half cooldown if it lands.
RtL will deal it’s damage as soon as it reaches the target, Rush on the other hand has to go through a highly telegraphed swing animation before dealing it’s damage. Add this functionality and you may as well change how the entire ability works since you’ve just made it useless without a total rewrite.
There’s also the fact that healing spring is a long duration water field, applies regen continuously to allies within it’s Aoe, cures conditions with each pulse … and you want to bring mending down to the same base heal with none of that extra utility …
In short don’t spout words like “balanced” when you clearly haven’t got the slightest concept of what the word means.
Crossbow might be fun as a new ranged weapon too I guess.
Thieves have never, ever, been weak to stuns. That’s something you have said right here right now for the first time ever.
Thieves have no stability, true, but they have the best stunbreakers in the game with the shortest cooldown and a lot of oh-kitten buttons, which completely removes the need of stability on Thieves.
Not denying that thieves have a lot of active defences in that regard. It’s more that a thief has to remain active and mobile to utilise them to their best advantage.
As it stands now thieves lean almost entirely on their use of their weapon skills and utilities for their survival while their passive defences do very little. So even a few seconds caught in a stun once their stun breaks have been baited out is more or less lethal.
I’d imagine that rending strikes is there purely as an extra cover condition to attempt to shield his damaging conditions from cleansing. Yes Blademaster would aid in the application of conditions to begin with but the vulnerability sitting there makes them a little harder to get rid of.
Monkeys and typewriters, my friend.
I would imagine it’s something along those lines as well.
Well I threw half an hour at it and this was the best I could manage.
Heavy Celestial does add a little to it but it’s basically 13% crit chance and 48% crit damage as a tradeoff for about 100 condition damage lost.
Perplexity is broke, so what you’re saying is it takes broken runes to defeat a meta stun war.
I was more responding to this.
But yes from a purely sPvP standpoint a thief isn’t going to do much against a heavy stun warrior. Thieves have always been weak to stuns, that’s nothing new. This is more a case of Thieves not having the options to deal with it than the warrior itself being OP. Which is an issue that will hopefully get addressed once they start adding these new traits and class skills.
It’s at this point you disengage and go find an objective that’s more suited to you, rather than getting into a pointless kitten ing match with a setup which is sadly a hard counter to an entire class atm.
When I’m talking about Downed-cleave I’m not talking about stopping someone’s pitiful attempts to bandage themself, I’m actually talking about punishing their team members for running in to revive their downed member.
Yes you could poke them with a pointed stick to stop the downed player bandaging themselves. When it comes to discouraging other team members from reviving them you’re going to need something a little heavier. Though this kind of behavior is rare in hot-joins, once you move up from there you might see this more often.
Also to quote myself …
B) Hundred Blades is second only to a grenade engineer when “Downed-cleaving” an enemy team so again, AoE focused weapon.
What I’m talking about here isn’t based on damage it’s about the ability to fill that team role when required vs risk taken to do it. Melee vs 1500 range, not hard to see who’s taking the bigger risk.
One last thing …
A. I’m taking Warrior’s weapons as-is without traits.
At no point did you actually say this at all, so you’ll have to forgive me for thinking we were talking about the weapons with trait backup. So yes that does skew things heavily in favour of the Axe since the Greatsword is laughable without trait support.
So yes we’re both guilty of making assumptions about what the other was saying. I’ve tried to clarify and I’ll apologize for seeming to jump down your throat since guests finishing off my coffee and not saying a kitten thing does make me a little … annoyed first thing in the morning.
Some1 links sword/greatsword… response is ‘but how will i keep up/be mobile’ …
Inorite.
This thread still hasn’t died ….
“Oh Noes, a pure melee build has the tools it needs to get there, and if I refuse to bring counters, leave there. OMG Nerf Nao!”
^You see that right there … we call that Sarcasm. Just covering all the bases since the thread doesn’t make me feel any form of inspiration for human intelligence.
You have 3 gap closers in your weapon sets of which Savage Leap applies cripple, a 4 second immobilise on the Sword’s burst, bladetrail on the Greatsword also applies cripple.
A Warrior’s Sword and Greatsword is probably the highest mobility weapon setup in the game matched only by a GS + Sw/D Ranger (yes I went there rangers it works, sue me) and a thief set up specifically for pursuit. If you have trouble keeping up with an enemy there’s the possibility that your “W” button is broken.
Best advice I can give is never to use shield bash to set up flurry if you’re going to swap to GS straight after. Bugs the animation and locks skills for a few seconds.
Also, no the initial hit will apply the 4 second immobilise, you can swap straight after using the burst into 100b.
No, mobility and a ranged weapon will do that for you …
It’s more down to the fact that pretty much every time someone posts a build 5-6 people jump in to basically trash a play-style that they don’t personally enjoy. Purely because they feel that if the warrior community hasn’t bandwagoned to it then it must be terrible.
It’s primarily roaming focused but I honestly can’t remember the last time I’ve actually died while running with the zerg for giggles.
GS is a burst weapon intended for single targets even though it CAN hypothetically hit more; no one ever really hits more than one person in PvP.
A) Given how the Forceful Greatsword trait works, more targets = faster might stacking so no … Greatsword is primarily an AoE focused weapon.
B) Hundred Blades is second only to a grenade engineer when “Downed-cleaving” an enemy team so again, AoE focused weapon.
*According to the wiki, where I looked because I double-checked this to make sure I was right, GS has zero vulnerability stacking skills. *The only way you’re getting vulnerability on it is through a specific trait, which would work on any other weapon, especially Axe’s fantastic, and faster, mainhand Auto.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Greatsword_Swing
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Greatsword_Slice
… would like a word. That’s the auto attack chain btw.
Also, comparing two weapons that are utilized in different manners and then saying “X is better cuz moar damage” is kind of hilariously narrow-minded. Axe is damage and nothing but damage so yes it’s sustained damage will be higher because that is all it brings.
Honestly, Warrior traits are pretty solid atm … apart from the Tactics minor traits. Those are just …. yeah.
Moving on.
Throw me a polearm with a “Dragoon” like playstyle and I will quite happily devote a build entirely to that.
Warriors are an offensive archetype, our defensive mechanics focus primarily around lock-down rather than boons. In that sense Rampage fills that role, but it doesn’t really mesh well with any builds.
There are new abilities for all classes slated for some point in the near future but I just don’t see Protection ever becoming a boon available to warriors. Weakness is far more likely however since it fits the aggressive model of the warrior far better.
Well I’ll admit it’s a fairly big departure to not see “Protection for x seconds” in one of Daecollo’s suggestions.
The Shield provides a role in being a “Defocus” tool. People choose it primarily for the defences it provides without chewing up a utility slot. “Boring” as you may find it both of those ability subsets you’ve suggested are a nerf to that role.
Secondly Protection just isn’t a Warrior mechanic, if you want the extra mitigation try asking for more access to the Weakness condition instead.
Both Stomp and Bull’s Charge see play as they can fill specific roles. Throw Bolas doesn’t see play almost entirely because of it’s horrible projectile tracking.
Which leaves Kick …
Kick’s main problem is that it’s counter-intuitive to knock an opponent away from you when playing as a melee focused class. It’s niche is primarily as an interrupt but that’s easily filled without even having to give up a utility slot for. Kick doesn’t need to be buffed it just needs to be changed to actually fill a role that isn’t better filled by another utility.
War is Supreme is Dps already, armed with Op greatsword, Op Rifle (long-range), Op hammer, OP mace, Op shiled (defense) and OP sword.
Going to stop you right there …
Op Rifle
Pretty sure that kind of invalidates your entire … well let’s just call it an “arguement” and humour you.
On top of that what inflates a Warrior’s personal dps in small engagements is their easy access to personal offensive boons. When other people have access to exactly the same level of offensive boons you’ll see the Warrior sitting around the middle of the pack.
Well … people seem to still get confused at the difference between a Sword and Mace atm and wonder why their stun break failed to clear immobilise.
Just how I would run it personally, assuming no current access to ascended trinkets.
Sword and Longbow are two of the best weapons a warrior has to utilize Cleansing Ire as Longbow doesn’t need to hit anything making it a guaranteed cleanse and Sword will most likely hit something at some point during Flurry. I also kind of see warrior builds that focus only on the condition damage as a one trick pony because you’re really only utilizing half of your weapon sets purpose that way.
Edit – Forgot the Trinket’s Jewel slots.
(edited by Chaosbroker.3860)
Technically yes, but that’s assuming that the warrior in your example stops there. The 100% cap is there only after the math is resolved.
If he has 120% condition duration he basically completely ignores your first 20% duration reduction.
That and you spent a lot of your time LoS blocked.
Also if the Warrior’s setup includes 2 weapons based around mobility why do you feel entitled to be able to keep up with only 1?
People still complaining about mace/Shield + “whatever Weapon” …
Because counting to 5 after seeing the swap to Mace is so hard.
1. 3 Conditions, it basically consumes all 3 bars then gives you 33% of what was consumed.
2. As far as bleed goes a 65% reduction would put it at 7 seconds. 20 seconds of cripple reduced by 98% is 0.4 seconds.
However condition duration increase directly counters reduction. Using as an example 20% condition duration in the cripple example, that would sit it at 78% total reduction for a 4.4 second cripple.
3. To the best of my knowledge the only ones that stun reduction touches are stuns and dazes (Dazes also get increased by stun duration increases so fair’s fair).
Edit – Cut down the explanation a little for clarity.
(edited by Chaosbroker.3860)
People are still complaining about Hammer + Mace/Shield? Because a full melee build with extremely limited mobility is hard to see a counter to …
That is true but while the thief is being evasive that’s less incoming damage anyway except in the case of a S/D thief, so it has much the same effect.
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