Guild Wars 2

Face it, we were promised a game that would not ignore PvP like many others, yet that was a lie. Anet’s refusal to fix obvious problems like the population imbalance clearly proves that they care more about the PvE carebears and their false sense of accomplishment when they kill AI.

I now feel that I wasted my money when I bought the game. No more money from me to Anet, ever.

Yay let’s copy PS2…

This change is irrelevant, the main problem still exists…

gg Anet for acting when it’s already too late, now that most serious and dedicated WvWer already left

I’m looking for a new mass PvP game to play, preferably without subscription fee or Buy to Play system (I lost faith in that since you-know-who spitted on us)

I’ve been a member of SFR since the game launched and always worked for its community. I’m an experienced WvWer who – in the past – was willing to invest money in it. I already abandoned the game some months ago, this update did not help at all, focus on the real problems and not on some useless arrowcart discussion (nor allowing free transfers to the top 1 server)

gg Anet

Vynt.5218:

And to the guilds that have people lost interest in the game: Why not just change the server? Get all the guilds to a same meeting and split up the forces in the lower tiers. You get the fights in between old enemies (you could switch enemy guilds also).
Oh and when Laceration asked about t7, it’s quite good. Only wish the enemy guilds had ~10 more active players (that will happen in t6).

Doesn’t change much since Anet doesn’t fix the real problems, instead they only apply useless nerfs and buffs with reasons that they don’t even care to explain. I’ll keep away from this game

lemora.1304:

If Anet had actually cared to explain their reasoning behind alot of their very questionable decisions, most of us probably wouldn’t be here wondering about their intelligence level.

This. LoL may have a toxic community but at least Riot releases patch note videos and justifies their changes

Everyone knows that the way to deal with a problem isn’t to fix the actual problem but instead to create something to attack the problem, that always works, ask Australia

Mif.3471:

Positive:
Arrow cart buff is great. It makes attackers have to use tactics other than just rushing 60+ players at the gate and overpowering the defense. Quality tactics are now more important than quantity of players.

A decent +60 player zerg won’t stop over a couple of arrowcarts…

I haven’t played for months since all Anet does is not fix the real problems and instead unbalance WvW even more, so it hasn’t affected me much

Ruprect.7260:

You will never have to watch a keep again, just build AC’s until capped and as soon as you see swords have like 10 ppl WP back and defend against 80 for hours.

Swords now take 30 seconds to appear, a decent group breaks a gate and the siege weapons in less time

Magnetron.5823:

This is Viz fighting a tower, and we ‘trying’ to defend.

At least they are polite, they knocked on the door before entering

Witzard.6829:

Let’s go back 2 months ago. VS is dominating WvW, and a server is created in order to counter and crush it, namely SFR.

lolno

Bones.5762:

Its true that the value of a player ingame during off time hours are more valuable to a server’s win, but it’s like treating them like second class citizens if we say they’re only worth half as much. Also i never quoted saying i saw players/server i only agreed to volkons quote saying if you see your outmaned by ratio of 3:1 it might deter you from going in.

I’m not saying I’m more valuable than them, I’m saying that the fact that I fight against other people is more valuable then the fact that they fight against no one except doors. That’s PvP – Player versus Player – you have to account for the other player, right now Anet is treating WvW as PvE, where only the player matters and not the whole battlefield

Yes Devon really seems focused , he announced a bunch of unneeded changes to class balance (I’m not saying if they’re good or not, I don’t care, but change just for the sake of filling the changelog while overlooking the real problems is silly)

Maybe the plan is to not announce the real changes yet, so we all rage now, then when they do the big changes we will all be super happy… or maybe not

Hmm that requires pro photoshop skillz and math not gonna happen even if it is logical

Leorcyn.1063:

Chiolas.1326:

Playing for points is ok, but not when an injustice (PvD) kittens over our fun.

The injustice would be for the game to stop when you go to bed.
The world doesn’t revolve around your person.

Play sPvP, games are timed.

Neither me nor anyone who has an IQ higher than that of a potato ever said the game to stop when we go to bed/am not playing. Please refrain from posting and go back to the école, kthxbye.

Anatolian Turk.4057:

Dayra.7405:

PvD, another problem with a lot of nice proposals in the forum since month, just that nothing happens.
1) dynamic scoring, weight the score by the number of players in WvW
2) dynamic maps, only have as many maps active (can be entered, captured, count
for scoring) as 2 of the 3 server could fill with people, would solve the queue
problem as side-effect, if more than 4 maps are allowed in primetime

To be honest with you PvDoor isnt the problem. We from Desolation dont play for points unlike NA servers. We play for fights! Unfortunately we dont get good fights anymore. When a Viz blob of 60+ comes across a group of 20 Desolations they run inside their towers/keeps and they have like million siege inside no joke. And when they get more reinforcement of 40+ more Viz zerg they decide to come out of their tower (now 100+ Viz Gigantic Blob) against 20 desolations and they eventually wipe us with the help of skill lag. like that wasn’t enough they then jump on our bodies like they achieved something great even though we were badly outnumbered 5:1.

We dont want to be in this tier anymore, you can ask any person from desolation. they will agree with me more or less.

I agree that it is not a big problem, however I (and I’m sure that a lot of other people) don’t play altogether due to that fact, there’s no point in playing if my efforts can be countered easily by a few ppl that fight doors.

Playing for points is ok, but not when an injustice (PvD) kittens over our fun.

EDIT: there are other problems ofc… blobbing, skill lag, the glicko mess mentioned here, and others

Centrix.4065:

nonono… Please dont give Anet crazy ideas. They will do this, and screw it up even more by letting a bug slip through that doesn’t allow you to go back in wvw if you get disconnected or leave, which will take another 3 months to fix. Don’t!

+1 good prediction

Reiven.2543:

Atherakhia.4086:

2.) Nighttime Coverage: It’s very aggrivating to completely dominate your tier all day long, but still never manage to get anywhere because from the hours of 2am till noon your server loses every single point because of work/school. After the initial cap, if you’re not actively defending something (because no one is attacking) you really shouldn’t get the same number of points.

I thought people would work out after a few months that everyone has different peak times. It really is childish and selfish to even suggest a system where one persons efforts are worth more than another simply because they don’t play in your peak times or have school/work.

Well right now the efforts of a small number of people are worth more than mine just because they don’t play at most peoples peak time (thus PRIME time)

Your argument is flawed…

Deniara Devious.3948:

• It seems if one avoids the prime time, the WvWvW on EU tier #1 is playable and fun!*

Good idea, I’ll ask Anet to write a letter to my employer/university/school so that they change my schedule.

They are forcing us to play the game when they want, not when we want, that’s poor customer service in my book.

ErlendR.6107:

No, they dont love wvw, and we dont love them ><

x2

I and a lot of other people have been saying for months that nightcapping must be fixed if WvW is ever to become competitive, fair and sustainable (see the suggestion in my signature), currently it’s neither casual nor hardcore, it builds communities/servers and then destroys them.

Anet ignored and many (me included) have already jumped ship and stopped playing, more will follow. Imo they deserve this to happen to their game.

Johje Holan.4607:

Someone made a post awhile ago with a detailed system similar to a playoff system with “seasons”. I can’t find it now though. That was a great idea.

I suggested something similar, but if they didn’t change the huge impact server population has on score, making a league or playoffs would be pointless

WvW is fine, facing the same servers week after week is fine, being the loser simply because the other server has more people is fine, there is no problem, go back to work minions!

Anet does not care

Confession charr: I /ignore anyone who mentions the jumping puzzle

“Right now, WvWvW is a mode stuck between its casual nature in design and its hardcore treatment by players. It breaks up and recreates server communities, then proceeds to do it again.”

Mepiff.6287:

Rayya.2591:

Sfr hold 160 points at peak ?
They must get rid of pugs asap !!!
2 weeks ago there were 380 points at peak
Dooh got an point, and OP, i see you with an glas cannon thief, that might not help server at all, consider that are at least 20 ppls like you over there, wich prevent an entire dedicated guild to join wvwvw.

Then maybe we gotta change how the queue system works?

We’ve been saying that since the game launched…

Offski.4897:

Not once have I heard anyone say fair game or GG to anyone on Deso

If you search “gg deso” this is the result, only 3 not complaining tho:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Vizunah-Desolation-Seafarer-2-03-T1-EU/1599682

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Vizunah-Desolation-Seafarer-2-03-T1-EU/1634758

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Vizunah-Desolation-Seafarer-2-03-T1-EU/1598702

“Right now, WvWvW is a mode stuck between its casual nature in design and its hardcore treatment by players. It breaks up and recreates server communities, then proceeds to do it again. It’s contradictory state drives people away from the mode. It has no interesting winning condition.”

Iruwen.3164:

ANet said “WvW will never be balanced” in the past. It’s just the way it is.
No valuing here, just sayin.

The past can be ignored, WvW imbalance shouldn’t

From here – JonathanSharp: “We’re starting to split PvE/WvW in the upcoming patch.”

Change is coming…

EnemyCrusher.7324:

I might have missed something but I don’t see an actual proposition to “fix” night capping. How would we “fix” or “ease” nightcapping?

Step 1. I mentioned several solutions like dynamic point system, dynamic map caps or the outmanned buff not being useless (that’s an obvious one), so I decidd not to waste time with that again

Also, I think night capping is perfectly fine since it gives players a better chance to succeed without needing to run with a large group. I might be a little biased though since I fight for Sorrow’s Furnace, which has a large nocturnal population.

So the majority of the players (thus the term “primetime”) gets screwed because they have little impact on the score because they fight against more enemies, just because they can’t play on other times (because of jobs, work, school, wtv)… That is pretty much a perfect example of “not fair”, except it’s not an example but reality

Maybe Anet wants to make us choose: either we have jobs or we play a videogame, well I can guarantee that is not going to end well for Anet

Also, giving more points to servers with less population would generate a lot of player hate. Elitist WvW players would be trying to threaten or bribe all of the PvE/PvP players off of their servers, and servers would be able to sabotage their opponents by simply sending accounts to their servers.

In the unlikely event that a server did that, it would be unable to fight on all 4 battlegrounds effectively, so it would actually lose points overall. Assuming of course that the formula is balanced, so it should be tested first one some matchups

EDIT:

Making an average of the daily point ticks would indeed be better than what we have now, but it would still heavily punish a server whose players can’t play during the night and morning

Confession charr says: I do not know what Zraith’s Beacon is

Now some important guilds left us because of the huge queues, we still have many players but they are PvE carebears and not WvW focused nor T1 material

GG Anet you screwed another server

Rayya.2591:

1. i am sorry , but what would be the peak
there is 4 hours diference betwen some eu countryes.
So when some players , consider is fine to play at 11:30 PM , for others is 03:30 AM, nightcap !!!
when some log at 16:00 , for others is 12 :00….

Your point is…?

They would fight when they could and amass as many points as they could. This is not PvE, we cannot assume that the enemy is AI and must always be there to fight

Also, it would help if the outmanned buff was not useless as it is now

The objective is that the huge influence of “nightcap” is toned down. Right now, if a server “nightcaps” they are almost automatic winners, when maybe they are not that good

2. servers like blacktide, are in tier 8 with verry high population but 0 wwvvw population, how you make it competitive for them with your system ?

That’s why I took someone’s suggestion to measure WvW population only. With free transfers, some guilds or even solo players would transfer there, the server would slowly become competitive (maybe not the best but still…)

Valik Shin.9027:

So Ur gonna forced people who play together on a server to split up because they play at times when few others do?

No one would be forced to leave a server. There are those who would do it to avoid queues and such, and there are those who wouldn’t do it, the servers would balance themselves out

Asanan example let take AG and BB on the euro side. BB has a very large afternoon and evening presence where s AG has a very large night and late night presence. This would mean that they would both have problems playing when they can play with people they enjoy playing with

Thus step 2, the free transfers that would make the populations spread. That way, no server would need to be “stacked” to reach a higher ranking. However, ppl can still play together if they want to, their points would still count (more – or less – according to their numbers and their enemies’ numbers)

There are 25 other servers in the european ladder, I’m sure they would enjoy a change of scenery as long as it was fair

To be honest the biggest problem with wvw is the separation of euro and NA server. If there was no split there would be better coverage around the clock for most servers

The cause for that separation is the different latency between EU and NA. There would be better coverage with no split, but Anet has no right to change that not (many people wouldn’t play in overseas servers). Besides, this is Guild Wars 2 not Coverage Wars 2

@Krakah: I know that the server population system is flawed, that’s why I said to exclude some servers.

For example, they allowed free transfers on Seafarer’s Rest, the #1 EU server. As one might easily predict, our server got overflowed with randoms that know little about WvW, are unwilling to cooperate and are just looking for their 15 minutes of fame. Now, guilds cannot play together due to the huge queues, some already left, the server is going apekitten and collapsing, what seems to be the rule of thumb in WvW

More servers would be excluded. The system would measure WvW population. Besides, the population meter would have to be based on the average population, not the current population (because most servers are Medium during the night)

I’ll add that to the suggestion thanks

So I agree with this thread, the focus in sPvP is probably not worth it and there’s still time to make WvW monetized and maybe even an eSport, here’s my suggestion for that:

Step 1 – Make it so that a server’s population/time coverage doesn’t have a massive weight in the final score.

How?

Well, my favorite solution is dynamic point tally (through complicated, percentage based formulas, a server would score less if he outnumbers his enemies, because hitting doors shouldn’t be too rewarded)

Here are some threads with other ideas also: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Dynamic-Player-Cap-per-Map-Balancing-WvW and https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Night-Capping-and-YOU/

And as a bonus here’s a very truthful quote from one of them:

“Right now, WvWvW is a mode stuck between its casual nature in design and its hardcore treatment by players. It breaks up and recreates server communities, then proceeds to do it again. It’s contradictory state drives people away from the mode. It has no interesting winning condition.”

Step 2 – Open up free transfers to Medium servers (but exclude the ones in higher tiers, like Seafarer’s Rest)

It’s the only way populations will balance themselves, paid transfers won’t do it.

If you don’t do this, then probably the populations will remain unchanged (maybe the bigger guilds will move, hurting communities already established in certain servers) and the whole thing is pointless

It’d also help with the queues, the blobbing meta and the lag.

Important: population measurement can’t be done on the spot, otherwise people would just wait for the night (=less players) to transfer. Also, it would have to measure WvW population and not PvE population

Step 3 – With nightcapping fixed (well, eased is a better word) and populations more evenly distributed amongst servers, any server could finally face any other server. Right now, if a T1 server faced a T6 server, then it’d probably be a landslide with no interest both to the winner and the loser (well, it would be interesting for some sadistic farmers). Heck, even if a T1 server faced a T3 probably.

My idea is to have a league like in football or most sports.

Each week the matchups would change (according to the schedule sorted randomly in the beginning of the season) and servers would battle new faces every week. The season would have 2 rounds, so each server would have each matchup twice.

Servers would be awarded points for their performances: nothing linear like 3 points for 1st place, 2 points for 2nd place and 1 point for 3rd place, something more rewarding like 5-3-1, respectively. This would promote consistency in playing well, opposite to rewarding consistency in playing when the enemy is not playing, like we have now.

At the end of the season the winning server gets something besides the normal bragging rights… maybe some PvE bonuses, a title only usable in the following season or even a fun/morbidly difficult event for the players. Oh and free fireworks, that’s a must.

Important note: without nightcapping being eased and server populations spread, a league wouldn’t work. On the contrary, it would kill WvW faster.

If WvW becomes competitive, people will spend real money in it. If WvW stays as it is, people will not spend money in it and it will slowly die as only a few servers are competitive.

I know that a lot of people will throw in non-logical comments because they fear change to their daily farm (Grind Wars 2 #yolo), but I honestly do not care, I’m just here for the WvW.

Cameirus.8407:

You assume that because I dont want to join TS, that I am a noob

Regardless if a player knows what to do in WvW, if he is not on TS it’s much more likely that he’ll die (the commander changes direction/climbs stairs → the player doesn’t follow in time → the player dies → the group/zerg/blob/wtv has less people → the group/zerg/blob/wtv is less useful and will eventually fail), therefore he is a noob, especially because he doesn’t want to join TS

I’m not disappointed, I expected the leaderboard to be useless and they delivered, gg!

akunadin.5017:

since Futilez quit, SFR is death:P

Uh no.

Rhino.7863:

Message Body length must be less than 5001.

I’m one of the members VoTF “stole” from SFR’s Futilez (your words not mine), then I refused to go to NA and consequently never went to Deso. I call bs on what you are saying

The old “pirate” days of SFR are not gone, the server pride is not gone, the heart is not gone, the underdog feeling is not gone (seeing as we’re still Medium most of the time, at least compared to other servers). Reset meetings still have a lot of people despite the horrendous hour of the resets, our TS could have more people but it’s not doing bad either way, intra-server communication is still good among most people

SFR continues to not be just another bandwagon server, we have a community, we all laugh together, work together, lose together and win together. Saying we’re just a bandwagon server is an insult to the many people who work hard every day to prove otherwise

There are many guildless/small-guilded people who contribute immensely whenever they can, even if they are not praised for it. Some guilds like OSC and ZD are here since the beginning and continue to be awesome, others like VcY or RiOT came later but perfectly adjusted to our community and are now essential to that same community, even the more recent guilds like RG and sIN adjusted quite well and are already important here. Even the new people are being welcomed to WvW as long as they are willing, our academy and a lot of other guilds are recruiting and working on teaching them

The problem is that Anet dropped the ball with the “Oh crap server populations are really unbalanced let’s open free transfers to the #1 server in Europe #yolo” and now they are not quick enough with solving the problem. Naturally SFR got a huge influx of new people/guilds. Some, like others did in the past, will adjust to our community and in the near future will be a nice addition to our force, others just came to leech free buffs and exhibit their worthless “Conqueror of Jumping Puzzles” titles
Anet had the chance to even out WvW populations and failed. We just got hit by the debris, so ofc we are on the defensive, ofc some of us treat new people like annoyances, I don’t blame them, I can’t blame them, it’s a natural human reaction

Note: some however are PvEers/sPvPers that came to check out WvW because it has a progression system now (ooohh shiny -> assuming the WXP thingy is worthwhile). Most of them know how to play and are also a good addition to SFR’s community

SFR didn’t change after you left; stop acting like SFR went apekitten with VoTF’s departure, it didn’t. The same with NoE; it was sad to see them leave yes, but we moved on and will continue to do so. Our server will not collapse, we are not weak, neither is Deso who got back to T1 after those problems in the past

Yes, ofc we have changed a little, we have adapted, we are now Europe’s #1, but the essence remains, we are still WvW focused and love to party with fireworks, dolyak tonic and dead enemies beneath our feet

So please, stop talking bs about a server you don’t know anymore. However, thank you for making me glad that I left VoTF

tl;dr Less QQ moar Pew Pew stop yapping and discuss the matchup

Hmmm… better open up free transfers for the top 1 server! #yolo

Jester.3928:

Unfortunately this attitude has been getting worse from the larger guilds recently, ppl asking for players to move from maps cos they can’t get all their members in might be ok when it’s not prime-time but when there’s massive ques for all maps asking ppl to move just isn’t fair, they paid for the game the same as everyone else.

I’ve been on sfr since the game launch and wvw every day, just because the guild I show loyalty to isn’t wvw focused I get classed as a useless pug by ppl from bigger wvw focused guilds, many of whom bandwagoned to them from smaller guilds just for the glory

Sfr wvw used to be all about the community as a whole, after all we’re all fighting for the same cause regardless of skill levels, now it’s becoming an elitist part of the game where players with less skills or from smaller, less wvw focused guilds aren’t welcome

Imo there’s nothing wrong with asking. Also, their guild is WvW focused, yours is not, therefore they probably play better than you and will have a greater positive impact if they get in. Nothing wrong there imo.

I share your opinion, you paid for the game and will not leave, neither will I. You are free not to leave, they just asked and that is nothing to be ashamed of (on the contrary, I respect them for being nice).

Don’t forget that they made the transfers to the #1 EU server free of charge, resulting in an avalanche of noobies and PvE carebears clogging our queues and WvW maps, that was a great idea

Empyre.2531:

I blame ANet for giving people the chance to transfer to the #1 EU wvw server for free.

How many you think would come if they had to pay 1000 (~22g) or 1800 gems (~50g)? (Yes, all RG members paid 1000 gems and no SFR was not T1 back then)

You compare a guild that comes with an organised raid of proper size each day (yes, sometimes we slack a day off, we still have ppl leading in bls) until late night (beyond times when the 150+ guilds have not even a fg left in wvw), respected commanders leading pugs in zones when there’s no official guild raid going (also in off-peak hours)
with the solo bandwagoners that come to SFR to not integrate, communicate or put in effort driven by only two aspects, a) be on the current #1 server b) it’s free?

You’re trying hard to make up a point when there’s none.

I’m sure the SFR community gladly welcomes (any sized) guilds trying to fit into the roster, communicating, integrating and putting in some effort. Not everyone is hardcore or can bring the same level of dedication, but to hell with the dead wood that got flooded on our coast by ANet.

This. Don’t worry RG, most of us are not displeased with you joining us. We welcome any committed WvW group, not PvE bandwagoners like Anet brought this time.

And nice zoomhacks to destroy any defensive siege

Some people, not the whole server

I’m not playing anymore until the great amount of zoomhacks applied by Vizunah Square (and possibly more hacks, since when they only have 1 arrowcart you see overlapping red circles) is stopped and punished

Stop timezone wars. Currently the winner is decided by their time coverage and that’s wrong, PvD is as rewarding as PvP. I would like to face T3 servers as I’m sure they don’t suck, however I’m stuck in T1 because my server has more ppl.