Guild Wars 2

you must have missed the 2 giant posts before that one about power/condition mixing, weak gadgets and useless toolbelt skills….

so ManCaptain just pretty much summed it up.
/closethread
lol

The lack of roles in this game most likely makes it insanely difficult to balance. Whereas with other MMOs where pretty much every class is either running damage spec, heal spec or flag carrier spec, the possibilities are much more open in this game which is good and bad at the same time. On my Engi I find mesmers to be intolerable in most situations, but with my power Necro they’re hardly ever a problem. IMO a profession that can do everything with one build is grounds for OP. I think of ele’s that are able to do really good sustained damage while giving group buffs and being extremely difficult to kill. One could also argue our favorite whipping boys, mesmers. With a phantasm build I used forever ago, I had access to 3 solid damaging ‘pets’ that were not terribly easy to down quickly that I could reactivate quickly, and they were giving me health regen, increased damage, swiftness etc, also making it hard for enemies to target me, in addition to boon strippage/condition removal, a teleport/stun break, invisibility, invulnerability (both from sword 2 and the F4 skill), 2 dazes, a knockback, a cripple, a cripple/immobolize, vulnerability and an AoE of 10 seconds of the difficult to counter Quickness. I’m not going to say that it’s terribly broken, it just seems like a lot of tools to have in 1 build that would take me multiple builds of another class to get near the same amount of options in addition to solid damage. Things may have changed since I played a mesmer, as it was a few months ago, so this may have been fixed, no clue. I think for a profession/build to be OP in my opinion, it would be having extreme versatility with no/hardly any penalty for it. Just my 2 cents.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Let’s not forget the other half of the OP—we’re talking about engineer vs mesmer. I’m not saying engineers are trash (they’re probably at least the seventh best profession in PvP!) but mesmers are a hard counter to engineers in a 1v1. Except for ranged-pressure grenade builds, engineers don’t have significant mid- or long-ranged damage; a mesmer who stays at 300-400 range shattering will beat us almost every time. We also have bad gap closers, so it’s hard to force the mesmer into a melee fight.

Best solution I’ve found so far: maneuver into close range to utilize one of our many knockbacks. Neutralize the point and try to trick the mesmer into going melee. Dodge his blurred frenzy and he’ll be in sword/pistol for the next 7 seconds…it’s difficult, but possible, to take him down.

Mesmers were the hardest profession for me to learn to fight as an engineer. You’ll have to outplay the mesmer significantly to do it, but it is possible.

^ This. I pretty much only play my Engi and no matter what, mesmers are always the most difficult, unless you can catch them unaware of you and you’re 100 nades and they don’t use blink, then it’s GG. Some classes just have what seems to be a hard counter to them and mesmer is ours. Like someone else stated, it’s their utility that I’m most afraid of in addition to pretty good sustained damage. I don’t necessarily think that they’re OP, just insanely difficult to fight if they’re handled by a good player, because they seem to have an answer for everything you can throw at them. GL OP, the only thing you can do is practice, as there is no instant ‘I win’ combo that guarantees a dead mes, sorry

Terrahero.9358:

Choops.3710:

TL;DR, 100 ‘Nades is most likely OP, but not for the insta gib on 20 sec CD. *The things we’re still able to do while waiting for that 20 seconds to come back up is more than any other ‘1 trick pony’ has going for it.*

This is simply not true.

For example.

A d/d Ele can build and spec to get 1shot attacks. 18k+ GUARENTEED crit. And besides that, he still has a lot going for himself. Because hey, he’s an Elementalist.

Ah ok, I wasn’t aware of this. I’ve never been anywhere close to being 1 shotted by an ele, so I’ll just chalk that up to good luck lol

The amount of ‘nub’ or ‘troll’ calling in this thread is ridiculous. Anyone that frequents the Engi forums even moderately knows Vöz and his many contributions to the forum, as well as his voztactics youtube page that a bunch of people used to start tinkering around with Static Discharge not too long ago. This isn’t the thief forums, usually someone can share their opinion without being kitten on. Now, moving on, I see the OP’s point, but to the be fair, I’ve noticed myself only being able to take other glass types out in under a second. I believe at the moment, a lot of people aren’t figuring out ways to counter it because you’re looking at a low population of people using this spec for a low population profession. The first few days I became aware of the Basilisk/Steal/BS combo I screamed ‘OP!’ like most other people. It took a little bit to learn how to counter it and that’s what I think is going on here, it’s just there’s not an abundance of people running it like the thief, so people aren’t as familiar with this build as most other burst builds. I put this build in the same category as 100 blades. It will completely destroy you if you’re not prepared for it, but I’ve had a few people who were aware of what I was doing cleanse the immobolize, blink out of the magnet pull, etc. For me the most OP part about it isn’t even the build itself but the range on the grenadier trait. For every 1 person in tournaments that’s complained about being insta-gibbed, I’ve heard at least 3 people complain about me being able to destroy trebuchet in Khylo from the outer wall. I suppose one could argue that the mesmer is able to portal to repair kit mad quick and move on with the game, but I’m roaming anyways so I’ll just hop back on the wall and take it out. I guess it’s the sum of our parts that could make us OP, rather than just the insta-death combo. We have perma-swiftness, good ‘oh kitten’ buttons, guranteed stomp ability with Elixir S, and a probable second guaranteed stomp through Toss Elixir S, as well as 2 hard CC’s and an immobolize, an AoE cripple, a melee confusion that hits like a truck, a rifle that hits quite hard and can be combined with the grenade kit that also blinds, poisons, slows, etc to kite people into oblivion if our close quarters combo doesn’t hit correctly. We may be glass, but think of everything else we bring to the table that a BS thief or a 100 blades war can’t bring. I know it’s all doom and gloom around here (I myself have had my share of complaining just like everyone else), but as far as glass builds go, I think we’re the best ones and by a large margin. Does it feel great to instakill people after months of looking for an extremely high damage build that isn’t based around a ridiculous gimmick? Of course it does. Averaging everything else we bring besides instagib combos every 20 seconds, is it ultimately good for the game in the long run? Probably not. After a few days of playing nothing but this build in hotjoins and in tournaments, I’m much more skilled than I was, and once you get a feel of how to get out of bad situations, you realize you’re not as fragile as you originally thought. This is something you can’t really say about other glass builds. Sure thieves have their stealth and gap creators to consider, but overall, I don’t see how any other glass/roamer style of play is as extremely well rounded as 100 nades is for engi.

TL;DR, 100 ‘Nades is most likely OP, but not for the insta gib on 20 sec CD. The things we’re still able to do while waiting for that 20 seconds to come back up is more than any other ‘1 trick pony’ has going for it.

GL in your tournies Vöz, don’t be afraid to enjoy the OPness while it’s here

Chaith.8256:

Sylosi.6503:

Kardiamond.6952:

My question is : Is it too strong?

Well based on watching what happens to a very good player (Teldo) when this build goes up against good teams, the answer would be no, for a few reasons, but the biggest ones are the lack of ability to disenage and the lack of ability to deliver the burst whilst under pressure, in the way burst thieves/mesmers/eles can, so what happens when playing a good team, is this build gets focused / trained out of the game.

So basically the same story as any other engineer build, there are other classes that do the job better and a side serving of AOE support DPS doesn’t make up for that.

When you’re being heavily focused, that’s where the l2p factor comes in. (Not suggesting anyone l2p.) Elixir S, gear block, call for peels. Have an escape plan in mind, lay your double box of nails at a bottleneck, and spin camera, overcharge shot any aggressive melee, combo this guy if possible – if not, lob the chill grenade. You can cover a lot of ground during this time, further overextending your enemies. If the train on your tail is getting doubled over by your allies, and they try to retreat, magnet one back to you from 1200 range and watch as your team sodomizes him.

If you’re a survivalist you can be a pretty huge asset to your team, if not, then perhaps another class is in order. From a ledge, I feel a 100nade engi is on par if not superior to a shortbow thief – if you have to, then that’s the plan.

^ This. I feel that out of all the glass cannon type builds in this game, we have the most (believe it or not) diverse set of skills. You have pretty awesome burst on around a 20 second CD, defensive options with Tool Kit, guaranteed finishers with Elixir S and it’s Toss toolbelt skill, good long range damage with rifle auto attack and you have the unique position of being the only profession that can kill the trebuchet in Khylo by lobbing ‘nades off the top of the wall outside it. I’m still getting used to the playstyle, and I’m by no means a pro, but the potential for this build is far beyond other glass style roamers IMO. I think it’s good for engi, as it finally gives us a high burst roamer spec that, when brought to a team fight, can help decimate enemies in seconds.

Could also be that you were trying to stack conditions when the Engi had traited condition immunity below 25%. Any condition damage would be shown as ‘Immune’ in that case.

Thanks for the extremely helpful guide, it’s nice there was video examples for everything. I’ve been thinking about trying this build, but it’s going to require a huge change in my playstyle to pull off, as I usually play tankier builds, but this guide will certainly help! Thanks again man!

From a long time engineer, I have to say your profession is arguably the most fun, at least in PvP. Rolled a Necro a few days ago and all I’ve been doing is playing it. Anyways, I play D/D, A/W Power with wells and have really good luck with it in hotjoin. Anyone try this in tournies? I was curious how it performs in a more serious setting. Thanks in advance!

Even with all it’s flaws, I can’t stop using mine. I mean…. it’s a friggin’ flamethrower in a fantasy style MMO. If it did 2 damage per channel, I’d still use it, because who didn’t dream of running around in DAoC or WoW with a Flamethrower? No one? Just me? Eh, whatever lol

Cons: You have to do more than just about every class to achieve the same result they do. This includes traiting weird, not having great damage most of the time, and playing the equivalent of ‘Flight of the Bumblebee’ on your keyboard to pull it all off.

Pros: It turns out that this ^ is ridiculously fun.

Seriously, the first month this game came out I leveled all classes to about 30 to see what they were like and which one I wanted to main. They all got deleted, only the Engi remains. This is also from a PvP standpoint. I’ve picked up other professions mostly just to learn how to counter them, but even while steamrolling people, you get a sneaking feeling in your gut that all those games you’re playing as a mes, thief, war, etc would be infinitely more satisfying if you were running around and doing awesome things like capping a point from someone without even killing them. I’ve been told multiple times in hotjoin that I am the most annoying person to fight they’ve run into, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. Roll that Engineer without fear, my friend.

Of course our Engis are awesome! We know that, and yeah, we complain about the state of things, but have you seen how we complain? We use Sarcasm Kit and post away, lol. Look at other professions forums, they’re like a friggin’ funeral, even the ones that are in amazing spots right now. The Engineer community never ceases to provide with me laughs, insight and knowledge about my profession! Happy Engineers definitely come here, which is how we got our all Engi Guild (NERF) going! The class is too kitten fun to not play, even with bugs, lack of trait synergy and funky damage. I couldn’t be happier that I play Engineer and one of the reasons for it is our community. Nerfs or not, we’ll still be here

Kimbald.2697:

Choops.3710:

Tool Kit might be a little OP, but I agree, I see no reason why it should’t work with EG, after all, FT and EG share the same trait line.

the problem with Tool Kit is that the dev’s made it clear they found many bunker builds too strong.
Not that engineers are the strongest bunkers, but I’m sure that would be the first thing that crosses their mind: Tank Cat + Juggernaut = nogo.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. And the forums would be overrun with shouts of OP!OP!

Tool Kit might be a little OP, but I agree, I see no reason why it should’t work with EG, after all, FT and EG share the same trait line.

I like the snare on short CD, and the 3,5,4 combo, I just wish our knockdown didn’t knock us down too.

I too am new and really enjoying my Necro. Needed to try something new as all I’ve done is play my Engi since launch and chose Necro based on no one crying for it being OP and obviously has the coolest looking spells in the game. I run D/D and A/F with wells and even though it sucks when I get focused, I’m loving it! I just hope you Necros have the comradery and awesome sense of humor that we have over at the Engineer forums

Lavexis.5360:

I think their heal cd too low.
They can use it 2 – 3 times in 1 fight
Increase ether cd to 25

I think the heal CD is so low to compensate for it being reliant on the number of clones/phantasms to heal for more.

My engineer is so bad he tosses Elixir S so he can shoot a rifle without falling over.

Only an engineer can drop land mines, throw grenades vast distances, set up a giant powder keg in the thick of a fight and lay down a flame wall and still be considered least threatening target.

^ I think he pretty much did as good as you can get without using kits. Well done sir!

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the AoE of mind wrack pretty small? I admit I have a lot of frustration vs Mesmers, but I feel it’s simply a matter of a very skilled player using a Mes can dominate 1v1, and I just haven’t figured out a reliable way to counter them consistently. It’s easy to tell the good ones from the bad ones, but I don’t recommend nerfing them to the ground. Though it does suck running towards a mesmer, muttering to myself ‘please don’t be good, please don’t be good’ like it’s some sort of scared mantra, because you know if it’s a skilled Mes, you’re going to lose. I’m not sure what to recommend actually lol

It seemed like the problem ANet had with AoE damage was in regards to downed players getting their health melted by constant AoE, which seems ridiculous to me. If I’m in a 2v1 situation, and my Elixir S is on CD and I’m getting too much pressure to finish the downed enemy, I don’t see anything wrong with laying down napalm and fighting the remaining enemy while positioning myself to still damage the downed player with my FT. Admittedly, I don’t have the most paids experience in the world, but I don’t recall anyone griping about this aspect of the game. It seems like with the laundry list of things to fix in this game, AoE damage is at the very bottom of it. Thoughts?

Though I think that a portal type mechanic is necessary for more classes to have access to, I can’t help but think that this is just a band aid that’s going to be slapped on under-represented classes in tPvP. Giving Engineers and Rangers portal will allow them to have a higher chance of being brought along, but it doesn’t fix the reason that these classes mostly aren’t brought in the first place.

I think those of us that have stuck with our Engineer this far aren’t going to be phased by anything else they do to us. We may be worse off than just about everyone, but we’ll handle whatever happens like we usually do, with resourcefulness, a lot of theorycrafting and just plain ol’ fun. Someone else pointed out it could be worse, we could be rangers, stuck being subpar but also, boring as hell to play lol

Time Warp is the Bloodlust of GW2, duh lol

You can get some good damage out of it with might stacking, but as far as I know, that’s about the only way lol

No, not at all. I dream of downloading the patch to find that my flamethrower never misses, is never obstructed and does amazing consistent reliable damage, considering I blew 30 points into it. I dream of melting down mesmer clones left and right, thieves running in stealth, trying to get away, but being unable to avoid the massive flame plume licking at their hells, GS Wars charging in, only to find a well placed dodge and a wall of fire devouring them. There they lie, writhing in pain as the fire consumes them all, their last words escaping in unison, “OP!” My Asura Engi merely smiles, taking in the joy of a moment that has been due to him for 5 months. As their bodies crumble to ash, I drink my Elixir B, and run quickly to the next point where they all hide and lie in wait for when I leave, lest they burn as the rest have. Do I want nerfs? Do I want buffs? No. I want justice.

How would a mass transit skill work besides how it does for portal? Engineer makes a golf cart that all his friends can hop into and ride to another point? Mass transit has become a basic of tournament play, if it doesn’t instantly bring the members to another point it’s pretty useless and will result in, you guessed it, mesmers still being required. Since I missed, let’s hear your idea.

AnemoneMeer.7182:

Well, this has gotten a little off of topic, so lets try to bring it back on topic.

---

So far, neither side seems opposed to the idea of other classes getting mass transit (Read: Not portal) skills that are different from portal, but still get enite groups from Point A to Point B. So, instead of bickering over what giving a carbon copy of portal to another class will do, why don’t we come up with what we’d both like to see from mass transit skills that are different from portal?

Engineer seems the obvious choice (though I could be biased, as I main engi). Call it Wayfare Gate or something, classify it as a gadget, same general function as Portal, maybe slightly longer CD so that way Mesmers can still be beautiful, unique snowflakes, and possibly make the toolbelt skill something minor, like a 2 second immobolize or something.

When they had 495 I found myself repeatedly yelling “heal! don’t die, you idiot!” lol. Awesome video!

http://www.gw2db.com/skill-builds/2446-alchenaut

2 Strength runes, 2 Fire runes and 2 Hoelbrak runes keep the might up for as long as possible, and the Soldier’s Amulet with Rampager’s Jewel allow you to eat a lot of damage without having an abysmal crit rate. I consider the 30 in Firearms and the 30 in Alchemy essential, but I’ve been messing around with the last 10 points in a few areas. The on crit protection is nice to have, but some might like the 10 in tools for speedy kits or something, it’s pretty much up to you and your playstyle. 2 knockdowns on relatively low CD, snare, and AoE blind make control in this build very good, and with defensive use of your Elixirs for condition removal plus proactive use of Elixir B for higher crit/more might, I find that the longer the fight lasts, the more powerful I become. Hope this helps!

I’ve tried a lot of other builds, but I keep going back to FT/Elixir might stacking. Knock ‘em down, survive just about anything they throw at ’ya and surprise ’em with burst they didn’t expect. Love it

jportell.2197:

The devs have also stated that changes made to classes would be gradual… Trying to incorporate a mechanic like portal and make it a skill available to all other classes is quite drastic don’t you think? Our arguments have not been weak either they have provided sound reasoning and a rationale that should make sense… My main rationale that you all know by now is the fixing of bugs in all classes before something like this is even considered. After which I am still against it because other classes still have “fast travel” like abilities maybe not exactly like portal but still faster than anything else a mesmer can offer aside from portal. It has gotten nerfed and if this were to get implemented it needs rebuffed or even buffed higher to help mesmers maintain their usefulness when it comes to portal. It really isn’t a core mechanic to game play however it is just useful for certain situations and I think if new Pvp maps come about which I understand is already been worked on and will most likely come out in Feb. The portal mechanic will become a lot less important than some of you think it already is now.

STILL not listening. No other class has MASS FAST TRAVEL. I don’t see how swiftness (most times only affecting the person who used it) is comparable to an ability that has the capacity to teleport an entire team over a great distance. Your arguments are weak. Every time someone says something that completely shatters your argument you turn it around into ‘my main point is we need to fix the bugs’ which obviously everyone will agree with, and then your second point is always ‘mesmers should be required for all teams, don’t give portal to anyone else’ which is infuriating, to say the least. So far your rationale for other classes not getting a portal type ability has been ’it’s a mesmer gameplay mechanic’ (it’s not), ‘other classes have a fast travel ability like portal, even if it’s not exactly like it’ (they don’t) and ‘without portal, there would be no reason to bring a mesmer and we would be lacking’ (you wouldn’t be). Your arguments are terrible and not constructive at all. We get it. Mesmer is your favorite class and you don’t want to see it changed, but whether or not you want to see it, your class possesses abilities that no one else has access to that make your class absolutely required to bring along, unless you want to handicap yourself from the get go. It goes against ANet’s manifesto for what they want this game to accomplish. There’s no way to argue that, it just does.

There’s really no point in putting my 2 cents in anymore, as it’s quite clear that no matter what the facts may state, it’s falling on deaf ears. Poor, poor mesmers. I hope you guys can survive with how bad you have it. Cheers.

What’s wrong with Mesmers not being 100% needed for a party? Ideally in a perfect world you would have 5 people, regardless of class and still have a shot at winning. This suggestion of giving other people portal is a means to that end. The end does not appear to be removing mesmers. I really think you’re reading too much into it.

DaShi.1368:

Then they should look at the Guardian and the ele. Those are required classes. By giving every class portal the only change you make is to remove the mesmer from the match. People still aren’t going to want engineers, warriors, or necros. They’ll want thieves, guardians, and eles who can now port. They will be even less diversity.

All I see from your posts here is “remove the mesmer from tPvP.” We get it. You hate the profession.

I think this is one of those ‘you see what you want to see’ sort of moments. The OP has been polite, respectful and intelligent with his responses but it keeps going back to the plight of mesmers. Get over yourselves, he makes good points, no one wants to remove mesmers from the game, we just want to make it so they’re not required for tournaments. What’s wrong with that? A good player will have a spot, mesmer or not.

I would rather any added portal like abilities have the same stipulations as the mesmer’s portal currently has.

I don’t see the relevance of how it works in dungeons due to this being, ya know, the sPvP forums. I run with it when I play my mesmer and with many games of testing have seen it make quite a difference. Personal opinion I suppose. And the whole ‘movement’ issue is old. You can’t move fast all the time. Wow, that sucks. Besides that, your tool kit is amazing and more than capable of handling just about everything that’s thrown at you. You’re not going to be in a bad place if everyone gets portal. Not even close. What this is is a discussion about why the portal mechanic shouldn’t be just for mesmers. We know the bugs need to be fixed. We know that should be priority. Shut up about it, it’s not adding to the discussion. If you have any cool ideas/suggestions/discrepancies that are on topic and helpful in anyway to what is being discussed, please, let’s hear it. If you’re just going to keep saying that bugs need to be fixed, stfu and gtfo.

AnemoneMeer.7182:

I’m all for other classes having similar abilities to portals in terms of group mobility or personal relocation. I’m not at all okay with other classes having portals.

Make it something unique and fitting the class.

Yeah, this is what I mean. I’m completely in support of this. Obviously not an exact replica of Portal, but something very much fitting the class. Necro and Engi have been brought up, which makes the most sense conceptually to me.

jportell.2197:

Done and had fun. Grenade kit is still good… And in any case I have said several times that before everyone gets so up in arms about portal not being available to every class there are still bugs in every class that need changed and addressed before adding the portal mechanic to it. And phantasmal disenchanter IS A JOKE… It never ever works. And lets not for get that phantasms now have a lag before their first attack because ANet bent over and let the qqer’s tell them that phantasms first attack happens to fast. Even though all phantasm summoning skills have some form of OBVIOUS cast animation. Yeah don’t get me started on how not viable Phantasm disenchanter is. We still can’t deal with boons as well as necros… The base of my argument stays that before the portal mechanic gets shared or spread around or some BS that we should let Anet fix all the bugs and problems with ALLL classes before adding another skill to them that will undoubtedly come with more bugs…. Please tell me you get my point there.

The base of your argument was the portal mechanic is unique and should stay mesmer, and later became fix the bugs first. There’s no arguing with you. I wouldn’t get too upset, your precious class is unlikely to ever be unviable, so no worries there. And phantasmal disenchanter doesn’t work? LOL, whatever you say pal.

jportell.2197:

“Mesmers also have access to the most powerful transportation and point control abilities in the game. They are able to teleport themselves and others, in addition to two forms of mass-target invisibility.”-Game strategy guide…. It seems that Anet doesn’t classify this as a Map Warping ability but the most powerful transportation ability in the game…. So it seems that in the eyes of the people that made the game it is something that they intended to be unique to mesmers… I have not argued that it would be cool to see different aspects that other classes can put on portal but I still do not like the idea of it simply because it is something that mesmer’s don’t see as a UNIVERSAL mechanic. This is important to us because while all these other classes get portal we still have no movement buff and our stealth abilities are buggy at best and flat out don’t work at their worst… Shattering is not a group mechanic… although it is unique to the mesmer (partially so cuz necros can blow up their minions). And I have seen teams that are successful without mesmers. Also in relation to what mesmers don’t have I was messing around on my engineer yesterday and unlocked a trait that gives 100% movement buff…. speed boon for 5 seconds when swapping kits the effect can not trigger more than every 5 seconds… Its like… People just don’t get what all the mesmer is lacking and still want to push the class even more down by taking a unique class mechanic (whether people feel it is demanded or not is perspective) and start spreading it around… If Anet did make this happen I just hope that they fix everything that is wrong with all classes first…

Dedicated swiftness is just about the only problems that a mesmer has. A quick recap of your post history shows that as far as mes is concerned, any nerfs/changes that may make a mes not as valuable are ones that you complain and rage about. Between Null Field and Phantasmal Disenchanter, you have some of the most amazing, if not THE most amazing boon/condition removal in the game. What you keep ignoring, because you want to believe that mesmers are in this god awful state when they’re anything but, is that the portal has become a borderline necessity for tPvP. Yes, it is possible to roll without a mesmer and win, but you are handicapping yourself by doing that, there’s no two ways around it. When something becomes part of the core of an entire game type it becomes a problem to anyone that doesn’t have access to it, which in this case, is everyone besides mesmers. And I don’t know what the point of bringing up that Engi trait was, because if you think you have it bad on your mes, go play a few tournament games on your Engi and tell me what you think.

….wow. I used to think I wasn’t too bad at this game, and now I know the truth lol. Friggin’ brutal. I hope they figure out a way to bring new people into tPvP, because as it is, after 2 queues and getting dominated both times, I had my fill.

great, now because of this build people are QQing about it lol. a 100b war got instagibbed and now it’s tears running down the forums. more nerfs incoming hahaha

DiogoSilva.7089:

@ Esplen,

“I feel like” only a single class should have AoE mechanics, only a single class should be able to heal, only a single class should be able to rez, only a single class should be able to run faster. /notserious

See the difference? Attunements or initiative are not core mechanics for the game, even though they are core mechanics for their respective professions. They are mechanics that give flavor to each class, much like Shatters, Clones, Phantasms, etc.

We have to make a distinction between specialized mechanics like attunements or initiative, with universal mechanics like boons, aoe, healing, or critical hits.

Portal is revealing itself to be a far more universal mechanic than what it seems at first glance. That’s because pvp demands it, just like GW1’s pvp demands a monk in every party, just like a nomal MMO demands a tank/ healer in every party.

Attunements or initiative change the way you use the more universal mechanics. Blink, Steal and Lightning Flash are different ways to use the teleport mechanic. Mist Form and Lich are different ways to use the transform mechanic. Likewise, more professions could have several unique ways to use the map-warping mechanic, besides that thieves’ trap. It’s way too important, and mostly only Mesmers make use of it. That’s like having a single profession for healing or for aoe: any format that requests those wil demand those professions in every.single.party.

Beat me to the punch. Stupid argument countered by a well thought out response. Well done, sir.

jportell.2197:

And then what the mesmer does have left will be useless for PvP our burst is outmatched by a warriors and thieves… Ele’s have the BEST GROUP HEALING power in the game… Necros have better survivability as far as the scholar professions go. What do we have that is useful in PvP portal and time warp. They are UNIQUE to our class and should stay as such. A thieves group utility such as shadow refuge has just as much of an impact as portal. Our 2 mass invisibility skills don’t even TOUCH how long shadow refuge makes players invisible… And once again the Portal is a bright glowing circle on the ground. Also if PvP is being played properly and people are thinking… They won’t have their entire team sitting on one point… SO portal will not be useful to the whole team just the one MAYBE 2 people that are with the mesmer using the portal…

You’re completely missing the point. Ele’s may have the best group healing in the game, but other professions have some sort of group healing ability, don’t they? Thieves have the best mass stealth in the game (which they should, ya know, that’s kind of their thing), but you as a mesmer have access to it, and I as an engineer have access to it (RNG depending) as well. You can’t bring up scholar class survivability without bringing up that Ele’s are good at that as well, it’s not just necros. What other class has a portal like ability? None, which is what the problem is. If you think that making other professions have access to that type of ability will leave the mesmer “useless for PvP” then I’m sorry, you’re doing it wrong.

Penguin.5197:

Since I don’t know how to add multiple pics on these forums, here is another screenshot of a wvw we quickly made up yesterday. We were able to push them back in eb dredge tunnels, where they made the mistake of choosing a dead end tunnel and resulted in lots of badges. Good times.

lol, good times. If only we had more Elixir X’s lol

XerxesBlack.5892:

so what is the main server we’re on again? i just got the invite but people are all over the place. it looks to be fort aspenwood, but i don’t want to get it wrong and have to wait another week before i can engineer together lol.

Yeah, Fort Aspenwood is where most of us are, I think. I just transferred over a few days ago, and now I actually have a reason to get my Engi to 80 lol

Had too much wine tonight, but even with my drunken reaction time going on, the survivability seems excellent and the damage is pretty kitten good. Have to give it another run through tomorrow, but it’s almost drunkproof!

Definitely going to give this a run in a few. Thanks, man!