Guild Wars 2

I’m betting, just like the engineer trait where this tech first appeared, it is going to be proven overpowered after a short while and lowered below 100%. But only time will tell.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Conncept.7638:

It’s not pay to win, because PvE is entirely non-competitive in GW2, and there is no winning without competition.

However, that said.

I’ve thought this since day one, no idea why the playerbase puts up with this crap. It is the exact same story as the Diablo auction house, except Blizzard players were smart enough to boycott that crap and even the game until it was removed, because it is a flat out, indisputable, con of a monetary system to run a game on.

The conversion option makes it so that players are more likely to support Anet and GW2 the less rewarding the game is, just like the debunked D3 auction house.

If it goes like the D3 auction house did, GW2 becomes better for everyone who plays for rewards, customization, exploration, and progress. When the Diablo auction house went down, every single reward in the games drop rate was increased, some by as much as 40%, and they found other honest methods of making money off the game. So it turned out better for everyone, as will the removal of the conversion system should the players ever choose to take a stand against it.

There’s a HUGE OVERSIGHT you’re missing.

d3 auctionhouse sold items for REAL CASH back to your BATTLENET ACCOUNT. You could use this to pay for games, and other merchandise etc.

THAT’s the reason it shut down. Because people were hoarding the best items and selling them for absurd amounts of cash, and people were buying them, literally turning it into a pay to win.

d3 was gated by gear, just like most dungeon crawlers were, but even more so due to the removal of skill trees from d2.

gw2 has 0 pay to win features. 0.
Do some research before you spout nonsense.

And people aren’t doing exactly that here? Precursors, mystic forge skins, T6 mats, BL weapon skins, all things only available for horrendous drop rates compared to similar items in any other game, and ALL of them horded by players to sell for exploitative prices.

It is exactly the same system, the only difference is, as I said, GW2s PvE is non-competitive, meaning you aren’t ‘winning’. But that does not change the fact that each players loss is Anets monetary gain. The less players get what they want, the more appealing converting gems to gold becomes to get it.

Andred.1087:

Immersion is a joke. It can’t be broken because it never existed, and anybody who tries to play this game imagining that any of it’s not fake is looney anyway.

Boy you must’ve be one fun kid growing up.

Immersion does not equal disconnection from reality, it allows for investment of emotions towards something you know is fictional. And control of it is in fact an important purpose of good and proper design in everything from classical painting to film to interactive games.

And if anyone is looney, it is a person that lacks any imagination. Fantasy is not only not a sign of insanity but in fact necessary for mental health, social skills, and maturity.

You did not hear this from me… but…

You may be able to bring a mesmer into “The Mystery Cave” instance, that mesmer might be able to lay down a portal at the edge of the room before you hit the repeat mote, and teleport you out of the fight ring before any of the attacks even start, possibly guaranteeing you the Shrubsplosives and Rock Dodger achievements so long as those inside complete the fight and detonate all shrubsplosives.

What other achievements are you having trouble with?

It’s not pay to win, because PvE is entirely non-competitive in GW2, and there is no winning without competition.

However, that said.

I’ve thought this since day one, no idea why the playerbase puts up with this crap. It is the exact same story as the Diablo auction house, except Blizzard players were smart enough to boycott that crap and even the game until it was removed, because it is a flat out, indisputable, con of a monetary system to run a game on.

The conversion option makes it so that players are more likely to support Anet and GW2 the less rewarding the game is, just like the debunked D3 auction house.

If it goes like the D3 auction house did, GW2 becomes better for everyone who plays for rewards, customization, exploration, and progress. When the Diablo auction house went down, every single reward in the games drop rate was increased, some by as much as 40%, and they found other honest methods of making money off the game. So it turned out better for everyone, as will the removal of the conversion system should the players ever choose to take a stand against it.

VodCom.6924:

The only fix I saw was proposed 2 weeks ago in a thread now buried, it was called “overflow damage” :
The principle : Once a mob has reached 25 stacks of bleeding, the next stack of bleed applied would be converted in direct damage instead without removing any of the current bleeding stacks.

Overflow damage has been suggested many times but it still has an unaddressed problem, power damage is just (base+modifier*power), super simple calculation for the servers to do constantly for the hundreds of people in a single map. Condition damage on the other hand is (modifier*condition damage*duration), calculating that from duration to instant with every single hit is nothing to scoff at, especially when the server is required to do it for hundreds of players at once.

ekarat.1085:

Well, you’re getting what you asked for, though probably not what you wanted.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/The-New-Defiance-Article/first

I don’t see how that addresses the subject of the thread. There are what, 2 or 3 conditions that also count as control effects? No wait, the are four in the current iteration of defiance; blind, fear, immobilize, and weakness; and weakness never even made any sense as a control effect against mobs, it would just be ridiculously overpowered versus most bosses if it wasn’t reduced as if a control effect.

Kal Spiro.9745:

So your big reveal is another elemental? I went through the links, I looked for anything that said golem, or looked like a construct. I didn’t find it. But thank you for providing me with another elemental, which is therefore still not a Golem.

Can you somehow write without being able to read? Let’s go over them again: Siege Ice GOLEM, Stone GOLEM, Fire GOLEM, Sandy the GOLEM, Iron forgeman- and at the bottom of the page we see… GOLEM.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Having the word golem in your name doesn’t make you a golem. It says very clearing in the description that it’s an elemental. Since it’s made of ice it was obviously animated through the use of hydromancy. Still not Golemancy which is a significantly more advanced form of magical animation.

That is what you don’t seem to be able to grasp. That is the difference. Yes, elementalists and necromancers can both animate things. Engineers can create things, though they aren’t animated and have to be driven by some means. All of the dredge gear, which was made by the dwarves, is either ridden inside or controlled externally. The Watchwork knights are run by clockwork.

Animation isn’t the same as what is produced through Golemancy. Golemancy produces an actual thinking machine. A construct that, if made well enough, can actually prove to be smarter than its creator, and often does.

Obviously we can just assume all information which contradicts us is wrong in order to be right yes?

They are referred to as golems by their creators, both those in and out of the game. You have, zero, in game lore to prove that the exact same magic and mechanical construction which qualifies something as a ‘golem’ cannot be applied to any substance, including fire, earth, or ice. They are golems, because all lore says they are and no information available to either of us says they are not, only your baseless assumptions about what a golem is.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Also, you showed me that that Dwarves are an ancient race, but not that the Asura are not one. It just says that the Asura were pushed out by Primordus later, not that they didn’t exist before then.

You didn’t bloody read the page again? Seriously?

It states ALL LIFE ENDED besides that small group of people Glint saved. Do I need to find you a wiki reference on what ALL means?

Kal Spiro.9745:

No, my opinion is rude and not relevant to this debate. The fact is you threw up links to a bunch of things that were not actually Golems, some were simply elementals and undead, and one thing that was a Golem made by a canonical Golemancer.

You then claimed that Dwarves made Golems but rather than showing a Dwarven Golem you showed a link to a location that doesn’t describe a Golem, and a link to a dungeon that doesn’t contain a Golem, but does contain a large mechanical robot which is not actually self actuated.

You didn’t actually read any of the pages did you? One, single, page, the first one, conveniently, was a location, and guess what was on that page?

The Siege Ice Golem, a dwarven construct. Pardon me for expecting you to scroll down a few inches.

The following links (which it is now obvious you didn’t even click on) were the dwarven made Iron Forgeman listed as a golem by the wiki (and it was autonomous), the dwarven made Stone Golem, the human made Fire Golem, and Sandy the golem grafted by both Snaff and Eir.

Every one of those pages had a golem on them created by non-asura. Excuse me for not digesting information for you, but that is your responsibility.

Kal Spiro.9745:

You also claim that Dwarves were using Golems before Asura based solely on the fact that we met Dwarves before Asura, not because we have any historical timeline that describes when Asura discovered Golemancy vs when the Dwarves started creating the things you want to believe are golems.

Seriously? Could you possibly speak more while knowing less? Tyrias history is divided in to 10000 year cycles, an age ending with the awakening of the dragon and the destruction of all life. The dwarves are among five elder races which the rebel dragon Glint hid away at the end of the last cycle. All life besides these five races, was born in the current cycle of ten thousand years.

I made the links nice and big for you, make sure to actually read them this time round.

Kal Spiro.9745:

This actually is the most concise break down of your misunderstanding that I could conceive, actually.

Elementals, Watchwork, Necromantic constructs and the big robots that the Dredge use but the Dwarves made are nothing like Golems produced from Golemancy.

They don’t have feelings nor desires. They can take only very rudimentary commands and “preprogramming.”

Golemancy is computerization. Golems have actual, factual, personalities that are programmed into them by the Golemancer that creates them. They are advanced intricate pieces of magic, not the slap dash animation of a pile of rocks or body parts you get in other magical fields. Golems have artificial intelligence.

That is the difference. That’s why it’s Brain Surgery, not the manufacture of artificial limbs, or pediatry.

Assumption on every single count.

Please, if you can, show me exactly where in the game lore it specifically states any of what you just claimed is true.

Because one thing is fact, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has flat feet like a duck, it’s a duck.

And as I stated previously, the Golems I just linked to you are "constructs which are called golems, which looked like golems, acted like golems, were constructed like golems, used for the duties golems are used for, and all lore states were golems, and they (the dwarves) had them before the Asura. "

Kal Spiro.9745:

I have seen no such thing to be true. Your links presented no such thing that agrees with your claim. Golems remain the unique product of Golemancy, a uniquely Asura discipline.

Unless specifically qualified, like Felsh Golem, when one uses the word Golem in GW2 they are talking about the product of Asura Golemancy.

No, your opinion is that no such thing is true regardless of what you see. Fact is not subject to change because you turn a blind eye to it. I literally listed five instances in which constructs not made by asura were ‘specifically qualified’ as golems by all available game lore, one of which is canonically older than any Asuran golem.

Good grief how can a person be so delusional?

And your analogy is completely inapplicable, all game lore indicates these constructs are golems, therefore they are the result of the same field of study regardless of naming conventions. You are claiming that two things, in every way similar in their use, convention, and construction, have no parallels between them, as if a neurosurgeon would have to have different degrees to operate on the brain of a black person and the brain of a white person. A brain is called a brain because it is a brain and is therefore subject to any studies concerning the brain, regardless of wheter you call it brain surgery or neurosurgery or who the brain belongs to. And by the same logic a golem is a called a golem because it is a golem, and is subject to any study or knowledge about golems, regardless of whether you call the field of study golemancy or not or whatever race the construct may have been made by.

Kal Spiro.9745:

It’s not a golem, it is a construct. It is also irrelevant to this thread because as per the OP we’re talking about Golemancy. If it wasn’t a construct of Golemancy, how is it relevant? It’s a robot, nothing else.

Golemancy is a magical discipline unique to Asura that produces Golems, which are constructs unique to Golemancy and unique in feature and design from all other constructs in the world of Tyria.

This bears repeating

What you are claiming is contrary to all lore within and without the game. Cling to whatever opinion you like, dismiss and accept whatever information you want, fact will not be subject to your interpretation or conception, and therefore you are still incorrect.

Fact is the dwarves had ‘constructs’ they called golems, which looked like golems, acted like golems, were constructed like golems, used for the duties golems are used for, and all lore states were golems, and they had them before the Asura.

Therefore, logically, they weren’t golems! Wait, no, that’s stupid.

And as per the OP, he stated it wouldn’t be a stretch for other races to practice golemancy, and he’s not only right but it in fact, according to lore, isn’t a stretch at all since Asurans are not the sole practitioners of golemancy, but merely the race who coined the term golemancy.

This is like claiming that the culture that coined the term ‘Physician’ are the first and only people to ever have any medical professionals.

Kal Spiro.9745:

First was a necromantic construct, the product of necromancy, not golemancy. The next is apparently a location. The next is a robot built with gears and bolt and has nothing to do with golemancy. The next is a elemental, which is a construct of geomancy, not golemancy. The next appears to be necromancy again. The next is Golemancy designed by an Asura Golemancy. I assume that Eir’s part in the production was due to her legendary sculpting prowess, she made the parts, but he designed and animated them.

When we talk about golems in the context of GW2 we are talking about Asura golems. When we talk about golemancy we are talking about the exclusive bounds of Asura because they’re the only golemancers.

Well that is just laughably hypocritical, you are the one who brought GW1 lore in to this, in which Golems are not solely asuran as per the sources you yourself cited. I listed three dwarven golems on that wiki, one of which, by the instance it appears in, is factually older than any asuran golem we know of. And ‘geomancy’, unless you are talking about the GW2 elementalist sigil, appears nowhere in GW1 or GW2 lore, so nothing is a result of it.

What you are claiming is contrary to all lore within and without the game. Cling to whatever opinion you like, dismiss and accept whatever information you want, fact will not be subject to your interpretation or conception, and therefore you are still incorrect.

EDIT: Whoops, not the same poster, eh whatever, still applies.

BrunoBRS.5178:

also, the guild wars wiki for you: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Golem_%28disambiguation%29

so yes, golems are very much an asura thing, by definition.

Yes, because the wiki is more accurate than the game. But even if you want to go by the wiki, what does that make this guy? Or this dwarven made guy? Or how ’bout this dwarven made guy? Or this guy? Or that guy? Or this norn and asura made golem? Or maybe that same page of the wiki you gave me which leads to all of the above and classifies golems as “an animated anthropomorphic being (sometimes sentient), created entirely from essentially inanimate matter” regardless of who they are made by?

Golems are exclusively Asuran as guns and explosives are exclusively Charr. They are strongly associated with them, but are neither first nor solely created by them.

PS: Also, the wiki and the single in game text on the salad hounds are either incorrect or retconned lore, because there is an area of the game where you see them being grown and raised. And being alive, does not disqualify as being a magical construct, golems are made from inanimate matter, not necessarily dead matter.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Would not make sense for anything but an Asura, so no.

BrunoBRS.5178:

golemancer is an asura that builds golems, regardless of profession.

I didn’t even play GW1 and I absolutely know that the dwarves had golems an entire age of the world before the first Asura walked Tyria. So they are most definitely not strictly Asuran. Even in the present age every playable race but one has or previously had some form of semi autonomous mechanical/magical construct, by all definitions a golem.

Humans have the Watchknights, not to mention Uzolan, a human golemancer.
Charr have the Effigies, as well as various other automated turrets and vehicles
Asura, obviously, have golems.
Sylvari have the Fern Hounds, Sylvan Hounds, and seed turrets.

aussieheals.6843:

Incoming intelligent discussion.

So anyone who tells you no, you are incorrect, is stupid? Please tell me any other way of interpreting that, or how incredibly intelligent and mature of a person you are for making such an assumption. I would love to hear this juvenile excuse on top of all the others you have provided.

Clearly, you didn’t make it to the final and most important sentence of my post. Here, let me open with it this time to make sure you make it to it this time.

“Maybe next time, worry less about your condescending sarcasm and fancy use of the posting tools and more about the content, character, and correctness of your post.”

aussieheals.6843:

Hindsight Bias, check it out, I’ll wait
ok done? good! next on the list..

Maybe you should read that page yourself, though because I rely on what I actually know rather than hiding behind sarcasm, I did in fact read it. Take note of this line: “The hindsight bias is defined as a tendency to change a recollection from an original thought to something different because of newly provided information” So, please explain to me, what new information was provided? None, we both have the same information with no new information provided between our encounters. The real difference between us is I don’t assume the worst of, attack, and attempt to debunk everything to feel better about myself. The information we have on it, shows there are in fact new mechanics regardless of your opinion on them, and plenty of them, with more to come.

Furthermore, grow up, you are better than no one, and are acting significantly worse than most.

aussieheals.6843:

Some call it new tech, others call it a fix. If a dev told you on live stream he can swim unassisted to the deepest parts of the ocean would you believe that too

So your opinion that it isn’t new tech, contrary to developers who know infinitely more about the game than you, makes it gospel. On second thought, this page would better serve you.

aussieheals.6843:

First you refer to the livestream then question why I do? Truth is I thought I would add a few extra things I remembered from the streams instead of waiting for someone to mention it. Also to show what devs are showing off as ‘new tech’. See how this connects to my last point?

My post was not vehemently downputting a fellow player and/or developer who never said anything, here or in the livestream, at any time, or apparently even existed in the first place.

aussieheals.6843:

.this is already in the game… the reason why no one knows wtf is going on in pvp and wvw cluster kitten matches is largely because of this. They actually added ‘new tech’ so you could turn it down..

Nope, this technology is incredibly limited, only allowing for very basic indicators without a lot of accuracy. It has been improved somewhat since launch but things like the brick road summon shown in the livestream show massive technological leaps coming with the expansion.

aussieheals.6843:

Showing off the UI features consisted of swapping legends back and forward showing a flip/glow effect and a noise.. how much hype do you want to give it? Also, yes at launch but if you take the time to read my post you will notice they changed this in SEPTEMBER, NOT NEW TECH.

Developers can dream up whatever they want, but it does NOT make it in to the game if the gameplay UI cannot support it, end of discussion, no way around until new UI tech is made. Meaning, this tech, regardless of when it was put in the game, was made for the content coming in the expansion, and will be used in it.

aussieheals.6843:

This ‘tech’ has been a basic feature of the Guild Wars franchise since it’s inception. If it was/is so fantastic it would of came out from day one of gw2.

Moot point and you know it. Such tech has been in RPGs and Rogue games, shooters, simulators, platformers, adventure games, pen and paper games, BOARD GAMES!

Is it in GW2? No, it isn’t, therefore in the context of this conversation, no matter how much you want to sour everything with cynicism and baseless deprecation, it IS new tech, and quite valuable tech at that.

aussieheals.6843:

Hype train at high speeds gets a bit of speed wobbles.

Let me ease your tension.

1. New Technology At launch, most of the Trading Post’s panels were actually a website embedded into the game using the Awesomium browser; since the September 2014 Feature Pack, it now uses Coherent. -
   – Gw2 will be using full features of their already (as of last year) to make the UI look a little attractive.
2. Taunt- Opposite of fear with added chain animation, but you will never guess what happens you AREN’T locked out of your auto attack! #shock#new#2015
3. Different damage at different ranges – - p.s. I cbf finding the live stream where they said this is new tech.

Edit: Things like directional shield wall are just nerfed shield wall, not new tech. Directional skills will require just as much if not less aim then nades. Swapping the end of your skill bar simply means your not swapping the start of your skill bar. Of course it’s going to look more interesting then existing classes IT’S NOT AN EXISTING CLASS

Umm… no, you missed a metric crapton of just what they announced, and we know there are a lot more mechanics besides even what they announced. There was a bar under the mobs names for example that still hasn’t been explained.

Directional shield wall IS new tech, they stated so in the livestream. They cannot do a ground based effect that alters its position with your own in the current game UNLESS it comes from the characters standard projectile and skill origin, like dragons breath.

You know what else you can’t find? Any point in this thread where anyone stated range based damage was new tech.

They also have the ability to put in much more varied and specific skill indication affects, something which could seriously help how unclear the game is everywhere from PvE to PvP.

You are, completly, undervaluing the use of the new UI options. A dev stated previously that their ability to change the UI per class was extremely limited AT LAUNCH, meaning they could only add so much variance between class mechanics at that time, regardless of what they added later. Guess what this thread is primarily addressing? Mechanical variance and viability among THE LAUNCH CLASSES!

And the BIGGEST ONE, upkeep skills! There are SO MANY skills and traits among the base classes that are just fix and forget it skills, which, regardless of their balance, have completely underwhelming affects that interest no one.

Traps, conjures, venoms, signets on nearly every single class, glyphs, confusion and torment skills, stealth, tons of off hand weapons, some main hand weapons, pretty much everything support related, the majority of the games traits; all things that are largely unfulfilling to play which could actually see use were they to ferret newer technology in to the base game and improve them.

Maybe next time, worry less about your condescending sarcasm and fancy use of the posting tools and more about the content, character, and correctness of your post.

Yes, the issue in this thread is really important, possibly the most important question concerning the expansion.

Basically it asks whether or not vanilla classes are going to be updated to be mechanically on par with the the Revenant and specializations. New tech is allowing for lots of new mechanics to be added in the expansion, and it seems the base classes are getting none of them except in specializations, while the Revenant will be getting those new mechanics in its base and the specializations. This has the potential to outmode the existing eight base classes as compared to the Revenant, as well as the base classes as compared to the specializations.

A developer popped in to the thread and stated that they would try to balance of course, but that really isn’t even the issue, the issue is more that the class will be more interesting, viable, and fun with the more advanced mechanics, not that it will be more competitive or powerful.

“Conquest is a fun game mode that rewards tactics and encourages build diversity.”
- Said by the team of five bunkers

Curae.1837:

Might be some bug in which they continue to be in view of people… But they’re summoned by using skill 5 of the Fancy Winter Crystal Scepter

Aha, I knew I had seen them somewhere before, couldn’t put my finger on it though.

Thornwolf.9721:

So you guys are all complaining about the new class being in appearance ; Slightly op for the game right?

No, we just addressed this in nearly all of the previous 10 posts before yours.

What we’re worried about has less to do with ‘opness’ and more to do with how interesting it is to play. If they add in dozens of new mechanics that have way more advanced, varied, applicable, and interesting uses than the current mechanics, the classes lacking the new mechanics will be left behind to collect dust, killing more content off than has been made.

dietzero.3514:

That would be cliched and lame.

Calling every story hook a cliche is cliched.

If you look hard enough, there is no plot twist, story hook, setting, or character that hasn’t been used ten thousand times in every medium available in recorded history. Especially with the media boom that has happened since the industrial age. ‘Uniqueness’ is just not a fair measure nor has ever been, it is entirely dependent on personal perspective. With the amount of media in the world a ‘unique’ work to one person has been read, watched, and listened a thousand times over by another. Quality is a much better standard, though admittedly, ANet has had their share of both good and bad quality work.

Personally, I liked Trahearne fine in the early days of the story. He’s an introverted character (something even the best artists lack the balls to make a story around) called to adventure at first by a means he is comfortable with, studying by himself to find a way to cleanse Orr. But then he is thrust out of his solitary ways in to a more clear and direct path to cleanse Orr, that of leadership over the Pact. And it is from this point on in the story that his character becomes written in decreasing quality. His most closely held character traits just melt away with no apparent conflict, and we are left with a character that is just ‘doing stuff’ because it is necessary for the plot to proceed.

Gaile Gray.6029:

leman, I feel sure you’ll find that the concern you’ve expressed has been and will continue to be a focus of the entire dev team during the process of development, testing, polish, beta testing, balance, more polish, and so forth. The last thing an expansion pack would be intended to do is to put one profession at the top of the pyramid, where all others are “inferior” in some sense.

I have every confidence that all the other professions will do just fine playing in with, and against, a Revenant.

Thank-you and I’m sure if there does end up being a balance problem, we’ll aaaaaaall let you know, likely over and over again for months on end. XD

But I do feel I should support what’s been said already. It isn’t entirely about superiority, it’s also about playability. From what we saw on the livestream, because of a lot of new tech mechanics in the expansion are going to be a lot more advanced, have more varied uses, and a lot more interactions between them. Or in short, they’re going to be a lot more interesting to play, Ruby even said exactly that multiple times during the livestream.

So assuming your efforts to balance the new content with the old come out perfectly. What is going to keep the base content from being left behind for the expansion content not because of power, but because the expansion content is just has more fulfilling and interesting gameplay?

Simon.3794:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Simon.3794:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Simon.3794:

Mirdave.2014:

Elites with no cooldown (with the exception of the energy cost)? Is this fair?

do you know what is a thief?

Did you know that Thief utilities and elites use cooldowns, not Initiative?

did you know that thief weapon skill use initiative?

Yes, yes I did. That was not the question however. He asked whether or not an Elite that has no cooldown is fair. There is no precedent for that.

do you think weapon skill has no cooldown is fair compare to other classes?
that will be your answer.

You… wait, what?

Did you mean: “Do you think it is fair, them having weapon skills which have no cooldowns, to compare them to another class which does?” (Or possibly, “to another class which does not?”)

That’s the best I can come up with, and while it makes sense grammatically I still can’t see how it makes any sense in the context of the conversation.

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

It was never the worst class in the game.

Yeaaaah it most definitely was. After they completely destroyed the old DD bunker ele and before we got all the compensatory buffs to our traits months later (which served nothing but to bring the build back under a different gear set) this was indisputably the worst class in the game.

But to the OP, we’re slightly worse off than we were under the old DD bunker build, but significantly better off than when that build was destroyed. And we still have no build diversity, either go celestial bunker or stick to kiddy mode content.

I’d say celestial as well, seems they are going to be a lot like the elementalist and engineer, no matter how you build, you are going to have a little bit of everything on your bar.

Not saying that I’ll use it though, just that it is most effective. I’ve never used cele stats on any of my characters, I just don’t find building ‘jack of all trades’ fun no matter how effective it is.

Torsailr.8456:

From what they said the utility skills are locked to the legend and there will be enough legends to match with your playing style.

The reveal today kind of made it look like there are only going to be four, one for each trait path and then the fifth profession mechanic trait path. Which, is, technically the same amount of utility skills that most of the professions have. But I kind of hoped they would be getting more utility skills because of their utility swapping mechanic similar to how the ele has more weapon skills because of its weapon swapping mechanic.

Gryph.8237:

look at those traits, WTF!>!>!>!>!>!>!> a minor trait that gives 2.5 seconds of stability every time they do a dodge roll? LOL i can’t even freakin buy stability for the necro. JESUS how can this be possible. SOrry going to destroy the meta and create a rev wvw world.

Stability is being redesigned in to a stacking condition, meaning they get 1 stack of stability which will last 2.5 seconds and may block a single control skill during that duration.

Test.8734:

rotten.9753:

Test.8734:

Yep, “give something new”, so…

Are you going to compare a whole new class to e.g an offhand weapon for a mesmer?

No, I’m going to compare a whole new profession to an old profession with reworked mechanics and new weapons.

The only reworked mechanics are the class mechanics, and only additions are new utilities and one new weapon.

So each class will still be made up, largely, of its original skills.

So the question of whether or not old weapons, old mechanics, and old abilities will be up to snuff when compared to the new ones is completely legitimate. Unless you are okay with seeing every single ranger use a staff and druid utilities, because none of the older weapons and utilities measure up to them.

Test.8734:

leman.7682:

Could we see future reworks of exisitng professions to make them on par with Revenant or should everyone just reroll the new profession on day one and forget about the past?

Specializations.

Shouldn’t, logically, base classes be on par with base classes and specializations on par with specializations?

This OP has a legitimate point. Nearly every single skill shown in the preview today had waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more effects, more conditions, more utility, more combinations, just more everything than most any single skill among the original eight classes.

That said, I would much prefer they add to the original classes, bringing them up rather than bringing the Revenant down. Most of the vanilla class skills are really binary, their skills have some combination of effects that you just activate and then wait to activate again. Rubi even said during the preview livestream that these skills just felt better than those of the base classes!

But the question is, will ANet do something about it with the base vanilla content, or will they just add it with specializations and write off the original eight classes as relics? In which case the revenant will always have a usability advantage.

Windsagio.1340:

The important thing to remember (They even said it in the article) is that resistance is an effect that already exists in the game, by making it a boon they’re making it strippable and counterable.

This is a nerf to the effect, which makes them able to make it more common.

No it’s not, this effect appears nowhere in game. The closest thing to it is Berserker Stance, but that prevents conditions from being applied, it does NOT allow them to tick without doing any damage.

That said, I’m okay with this boon, we have weakness after all, a condition that mitigates power damage by 50% and prevents dodging. I do bet we are going to see it nerfed below 100% condidamage mitigation eventually though, but only time will tell.

Tao.5096:

Desync position.

Also note, this can be done purposely as a really simple hack in some games, for instance you could do this in the original halo over XBL just by metering your bandwidth up and down. I’m not sure if you can do it here in GW2, but I’d watch anyone who does this consistently when it isn’t happening to anyone else on the map.

I am really hoping for a Geomancer specialization for the Elementalist, and with it reasonable changes to make condition skills worthwhile. Though I really doubt it is going to happen, but at the very least LEAST I hope that our specialization ISN’T an Arcanist, which seems the cheapest, obvious, and easiest route.

Not right now, because I have no personal interest in the games most expensive items, and they are going to go down in price in a few months with the release of the precursor hunt, which means I would lose money.

However, months ago, when inflation of all such uppercrust items was guaranteed, you bet I would have bought it, if only to make a profit off it.

EDIT: Oh my gosh XD the ‘casual’ player with 4000 G. You need to take a better measure of what a casual amount of time consumption is. If you, sir, are a casual player, most people I game with don’t even qualify as players!

Frankly, it’s because ANet’s lead economist kinda sucks at his job.

He has actually stated on multiple occasions that this enormous disparity is intentional but gives no reason for it. Likely because there is no reason, and he does not care, and when given the ability to put in work that will make something good for the players possible, or just say no to it and cite the potential economic repercussions, he’ll just say no. He is not a player, and has less vested interest in this games success or player satisfaction than he does in enforcing his own economic theories. In his mind, this is not ‘our’ game world of epic fantasy heroics and combat, this is ‘his’ personal monopoly board, which himself set up as banker.

They haven’t said so but I am really really really hoping so.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Conncept.7638:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Test.8734:

Conncept.7638:

The new upkeep skill system sounds awesome.

However, the new blog post specifically indicates such skills will be available solely to the Revenant, (and I suspect in specializations) but in any case, not the base classes.

I got a beef with that.

That’s not how upkeep works.

It works by impairing energy regeneration. Do you see that arrows above the Revenant’s energy bar? That’s showing the upkeep system. If you have upkeep, you regenerate energy more slowly, or none at all, or you lose energy if you have a lot of upkeep.

Other professions don’t have energy, so they won’t get upkeep.

^This. In order to do this, anet would have to give all classes mana. No thanks.

Says who? Mechanically speaking a resource is a resource, nothing but a control over skill uptime, be that cooldowns or energy.

But we already have cooldowns. I like that gw2 only has cooldowns, not cooldowns AND energy (like most games).

I know, that’s what I am saying, we can use what we already have.

Cooldowns work fine as they are, I don’t want to see energy added to existing core classes, but there really isn’t any mechanical or design reason new upkeep skills can’t treat cooldowns just as they treat energy, metering their uptime as a cost for prolonged effects.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Test.8734:

Conncept.7638:

The new upkeep skill system sounds awesome.

However, the new blog post specifically indicates such skills will be available solely to the Revenant, (and I suspect in specializations) but in any case, not the base classes.

I got a beef with that.

That’s not how upkeep works.

It works by impairing energy regeneration. Do you see that arrows above the Revenant’s energy bar? That’s showing the upkeep system. If you have upkeep, you regenerate energy more slowly, or none at all, or you lose energy if you have a lot of upkeep.

Other professions don’t have energy, so they won’t get upkeep.

^This. In order to do this, anet would have to give all classes mana. No thanks.

Says who? Mechanically speaking a resource is a resource, nothing but a control over skill uptime, be that cooldowns or energy.

Linken.6345:

dont we have 8 classes?

Ahaha, yes XD

runeblade.7514:

Conncept.7638:

To both of you, it does not say specifically in the blogpost that other specialization will get upkeep skills, but it also never states it is a Revenant only mechanic.

In other words, nowhere on the blog post states that the specialization will get upkeep skills.

Is there an echo in here?

I used to love running groups through dungeons with the Auramancer build, especially SE, it was a TON of fun. But it hasn’t been any good since they limited Powerful Aura to proccing off weapon skills, which took away Fire’s Embraces interactions. It wasn’t even a popular build, let alone overpowered, there was honestly no reason to nerf it, except maybe the spite the developers seem to have for this class.

To both of you, it does not say specifically in the blogpost that other specialization will get upkeep skills, but it also never states it is a Revenant only mechanic. People made the same mistake with Fear before launch, and it wound up being available on nearly every class. It just makes sense to me, though I could be wrong.

However what it does make clear, at the end of the blog post, is that the new conditions will not be added to anything but the revenant and the specializations, which to me sounds a lot like a big “Screw you” to the original classes still hoping for some kind of help before HoTs release. Especially when most of those classes still have pitiful build diversity two years after launch.

Nonetheless I edited the OP to reflect that. Thanks for pointing it out.

Yeah, this isn’t going to change anything.

GW2 will still be pervaded by bosses that are just giant HP pools and one-shot attacks as their only skill bar. And HP and armor will still mean nothing to them, it will never be advantageous to take damage.

For example, my favorite build is dire gear, just because I find it fun and it fulfills what I imagine for my character. And if you don’t know, that is tied with Soldiers as the third tankiest gear available in the game.

But if I really need to survive a fight or am having trouble, I ignore my stats, grab a sigil of energy, and any dodge, block, and invulnerability I can find in my traits and skills. Those, unlike most of the games stats, do not scale to ever sinking depths of worthlessness when compared to boss-level damage.

The new upkeep skill system sounds awesome.

However, the new blog post specifically indicates such skills will be available solely to the Revenant, (and I suspect in specializations) but in any case, not the base classes.

I got a beef with that.

The original eight classes have so many unfulfilling mechanics which could actually see play somewhere were they ferreted in to the upkeep system.

For example, the Elementalists conjured weapons come to mind. These have never been popular or viable except wherein they have a bug to exploit. There are just so few situations where it is worth the cost of losing three attunements for one.

But, what if conjured weapons became an upkeeped skill? Elementalists are able to conjure them over an attunement, doing so would cause their swapping CDs from other elements to continually rise as an upkeep cost. Meaning you could, for example, permanently upkeep the Ice Bow conjuration over the fire attunement, and if upkept for long enough, lose the earth and air attunements to the continually rising cost, but permanently gain two water attunements.

Ranger Traps are another skillset that could benefit from the new system. The closest thing these have seen to regular play was being thrown at people back when Rangers had even less condition options. But, with upkeep, traps could be made to go off each time someone activates them, and require you to upkeep them for the trap to be reset by putting another ‘tick’ higher CD on your pet skills.

There have to be more skills that this could benefit from, I play the elementalist and necro mostly. Not too much experience experimenting with the other classes. But the point remains, that we still do not really have fulfilling build customization in the base game, and in my opinion this could do a lot to fix that.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

DiogoSilva.7089:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

A class whose primary mechanic is energy management. Huh, go figure.

And yet, that’s one of the best mechanics they could haven given to it.

Maybe. Not necessarily. A lot depends how its actually implemented, and that’s not talked about in great detail. It’s interesting to see upkeep skills return though.

True we don’t know how it works yet. But from what I see of it so far, this is how thief’s initiative should have worked in the first place. Using your thief skills to both gain and spend initiative, requiring active play instead of rewarding passivity, cowardice, and basically playing like a troll.

Maybe if it had, thieves wouldn’t have seen a year and a half long string of nerfs due not to balance, but to how incredibly antifun they were to face.

Wetpaw.3487:

My Druid so far~

Can’t say I like the armor but your use of that headpiece is awesome.

reikken.4961:

being able to summon the shield faster is all you really need to make it great

I disagree, a defensive skillset that has no resistance against conditions or control will be worthless until DPS is significantly more valuable in PvP, which is not likely to ever happen with the developers closed-minded insistence that the conquest game mode is well designed, in spite of all evidence to the contrary. It needs condiremoval, stability, or at the very least a stun removal.

There is one thing still very confusing to me about this blog post.

It sounds like the Revenant may get less customization than other classes. As per usual your first five skills are determined by your weapon, but unlike other classes they said your second five skills are determined by your legend. Are they determined only by your legend? As in, you pick a legend and get the five skills that come with it? Or will there be a selectable loadout of skills within each legend? And if so how many per legend?

Knighthonor.4061:

Druids wearing the skin and bones of animals is symbolized in Video Games as animal transformations because real life Druids wear those to take the spiritual form of the animal spirits.

And you get this information from where exactly?

No such thing appears anywhere in Celtic druidism, or even the Greek druidism which sort of preceded it. You do see a lot of stories of people turning in to animals and even turning other people in to animals, but it isn’t a matter of worship or reverence in any of them, usually it is some kind of punishment, trick, or just plain combat.

What you are referring to is totemism, and is a staple of many ancient mythos, most well known being the Norse, but was not a part of druidism. Totemism does NOW appear in the neopagan revival of druidism, but like the worship of nature, harvest festivals, fairie rings and the like, it is a modern addition to the current heavily bowdlerized traditions and practices.

Knighthonor.4061:

Ojyh.9842:

Why would the Druid transform into animals ? Druids in GW are more about plants and nature spirits.
It might be possible but Druid doesnt always mean transformation. Don’t take WoW as a standard for everything.

I disagree. Druids are based on Real Life Druid culture, and Druid culture deals with both Animals and Spirits of nature…

<<<HUGE mythology nerd

Real life Druidism (at least so far as we get the word ‘druid’ from) was Celtic, and it worshipped life and death more than plants, animals, or the natural world. In fact most of our fantasy pop-culture tropes tied to necromancy, like wearing cow skulls and bone necklaces, eerie green smoke and blue fire, witches cauldrons, even ‘blood stones’ and the raising of the dead, originate from druidism. While Necromancy was actually just another word for a seance of the dead. Druids as worshipers of nature is the result of modern cultural revivalist movements.

Lazaar.9123:

Conncept.7638:

Lazaar.9123:

Aesthetics has and always will be personal opinion.

Ehhhhuh… no.

Read up on the golden section. And that is just one small piece of literally thousands of years of evidence. There is in fact quantifiable preferences preprogrammed not only in to the human psyche but all through the natural world. That isn’t to say people don’t defy those natural preferences, but that is exactly what it is, defiance; a willful, deliberate, and conscious decision to go against what feels natural, the psychological result of counterculturalism.

Considering that is actually something based on surveys, there is no way to actually define it as fact. Some groups of people are attracted to the same thing, while other groups of people are attracted to other features. It certainly isn’t a hard theory to defy, which is why so many people do defy it. (This is purely based upon the fashion in Guild Wars 2.)

You didn’t actually read up on what I said did you? None of it is based on surveys, none of it is even so modern as surveys, the principles of art and aesthetics I’m talking about began as studies in early Rome, and are observable all throughout nature. And I don’t just mean human behavior, but literally visible in things like cellular division, growth of plant and animal systems, attraction and imprinting, even the rotation of planets.

Anything entirely objective, is worthless, and art is not worthless. There are natural laws and patterns, a science behind it, that give it value.

Furthermore, most of the skins in this game range from good to great, and this ‘85%’ is a completely unreasonable blanket statement made to prove superiority by disapproval. If something isn’t good enough for you, you are better than it right? Wrong.