Guild Wars 2

rajule.8054:

Try to look at it this way, guardians are about protecting, be it allies, or an area. If a guardian doesn’t want you in an area they’re gonna have many ways to make you miserable for stepping foot on that ground.

a trap is really no different than a symbol or consecration other than it activates when stepped on instead of activating automatically.

It would fit more thematically if they called it something like a ward or seal, but a rose by any other name…

mechanically I think it works fine with guardians as defenders/gatekeepers area of denial experts.

Except for some meta’s of play most people we are trying to support don’t stand in the symbols.

Meta 1: World vs. World fights are fast pace and large. You don’t really stand around on a symbol. If they are used they are typically run over but if you play that format then you know it just isn’t viable. Furthermore, if you go the route of solo play people reset fight and leave you alone and then if you try and engage it is off to the races with whatever is at your disposal. Again, symbols offer no help here and the one symbol we had, swiftness, was changed a long time ago and now if you want to use that for speed, well, you need to do the stutter step shuffle (i.e. cast, stop, count to 3 or 4, then continue on – the whole time the person you are chasing is long gone).

Meta 2: sPvP – again, who stops and stands in a symbol? Maybe if you hold a point and want to bunker. So the question then is are you a good bunker or are other classes better? Is this ranked or unranked? Team, or hot join? Depending on how you are joining most don’t wait for the symbol let alone stand in it.

Meta 3: PvE – no idea since I don’t play it. When I have it is always about speed which means Berserker is a must and symbols need not apply. Maybe to run from point A to B but every time I entered with mace/shield or something like that I would get the deer in the headlight syndrome – or one of Zorak’s eyes with the swirly thing going on. Um, no – put on DPS gear please or go home.

Just my opinion and I am of the mind set I’ll wait to see – but at 50,000 feet I do wonder what they are thinking.

Rylen.2147:

There are some major issues with these traps. First off, trapper runes don’t even work well. The stealth you get is just taken off almost instantly by the trap itself and super speed is currently bugged to only act like swiftness. Secondly, who would ever want a heap trap? The only way a heal trap could be viable is if allies triggered it.

Also, Traps don’t fit a heavy armor support character in any way. The idea of traps is to be stealthy and deceptive in order to fool your opponent; guardian is not stealthy or deceptive.

Trap runes work fine. The only draw back from the runes is that they don’t put the Rangers pet in stealth. Everything else is fine for the most part and in WvW they are grand.

I do agree with the traps and runes not really fitting for a noble Guardian – but we will have to wait and see once it goes live. Personally I can’t see a Guardian using trapper runes when there are others that offer better utility.

Arken.3725:

Crapgame.6519:

Arken.3725:

lighter.2708:

Arken.3725:

That’s my point, adding 1 extra disengage/leap isn’t going to solve the issue at hand.

We will see what other things the elite specialization has to offer.
From what i heard F3 blocks all attack from the front.

Dude, that looks amazing. A durational block from the front sounds AWESOME.

Sure it does….we have half of it already called Wall of Reflection. You should use it.

Except that is only useful against projectiles to which, most AoE’s in this game completely ignore it(when played at the feet). Blocking against everything completely changes the playing field.

I agree, that is why I said “half” Of course we have shields which take care of the other half….but we all know about how kitten poor shields are. So again, lets just call it half again – lol.

Here is a question – are traps stationary? If so, are they offensive or defensive? Offensive it won’t matter but if they are defensive / support oriented they better follow us otherwise they will be like symbols. And we all know what happens to symbols already today. No one is stationary long enough in PvP or WvW. Maybe in PvE…

Arken.3725:

lighter.2708:

Arken.3725:

That’s my point, adding 1 extra disengage/leap isn’t going to solve the issue at hand.

We will see what other things the elite specialization has to offer.
From what i heard F3 blocks all attack from the front.

Dude, that looks amazing. A durational block from the front sounds AWESOME.

Sure it does….we have half of it already called Wall of Reflection. You should use it.

Maybe they misspoke when they mentioned traps and really meant shields. I mean we can hope, right? I like traps. In fact, I like them so much I rolled a Ranger and almost always use them. They fit the class to a T and make sense. To me anyway.

Enter the Guardian and I’m not sure what is going on anymore. Maybe they gave Guardians traps because they gave them bows. Thief has them, Ranger has them, why not Guardians or anyone else that uses them. Um, wait – I don’t have a Warrior whom is level 80 – do they have traps? I don’t recall or think so. So that doesn’t really fit. All bow classes have them – so no.

Guardians are support / defense oriented with dps options. How do bows fit into that? To use when people are running away? Who runs away from a Guardian? And if they do it isn’t like we have boots of speed or a magic carpet to catch them unless we are geared for it.

Shields would have been nice but I guess we have to see how this plays out. I would have also liked to see something more along the lines of support / line of warding, reflection, etc.

Satenia.9025:

FrenzyCat.9614:

Cheer up? Really? I’d rather dual wield shields before using a frickin’ longbow.

Uh, I was kinda hoping for a primary shield. At least then I’d still be in melee and not sneaking around laying traps. What a disgrace…

Yeah – super let down. I honestly was hoping for more front line monster support, wrecking faces, and guard abilities placed on near by friends to intercept knife in ribs by stealth.

No, we got a bow.

Black Box.9312:

Gaining stealth is not worth taking traps AND this rune set over utilities and runes that will actually be useful.

Depends on your mode of play.

Those runes in WvW are a bit over powered. If you haven’t, give them a try. Gear, food, and trapper runes = fun times.

Isn’t meta but who cares. They work and work well in the WvW space.

Sylent.3165:

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

“How terrible” You’re basing this off the idea that it’s a trap alone, you have no idea how the trap will function at all.

Well as its a trap it will function like a trap. I don’t recall reading anything saying when a specialization uses a trap it will be completely different then other traps. This isn’t a trap type class, no one wanted traps on guardian and no one uses traps on thieves or rangers. Or very rarely. I focus on pve so this is a disappointment for me.

Speak for yourself. I use traps as a Ranger non stop in WvW. They are amazing with the runes and proper gear set.

PvE / sPvP maybe. But the 3rd meta of play they are huge when properly played to the point of being over powered.

Well, having main’d a Guardian for the most of GW2’s launch to date, then swapping to a Ranger, I find this rather, well, interesting.

LB Rangers with Traps are pretty deadly and not widely used in the WvW space. Most run full power / zerk. I mean I run it from time to time when I want to pew pew people down and kitten them off. However, traps are strong.

Not sure if they said or if anyone verified, but I can’t really see them giving Guardians the trap runes. Stealth on a Guardian just seems wrong. I still don’t know why they gave them a bow rather than a big kitten piece of steel we call a shield and make that dynamic work properly for once. Put them truly on the front lines where they belong.

This bow, how is that supposed to work with heavy armor on the front line. Just does not compute.

Fluffball.8307:

The basic idea is that s/t + a/d is for 1v1s and SB is for group fights. The CC, bleeds and range of SB don’t do much in 1v1s because you can’t get behind the opponent (they’re almost always going to be facing you unless they’re on drugs.)

I thought you were referring to the celestial longbow trapper for your WvW build. If you’re already wearing celestial armor or have berserker armor, you might try using longbow instead of shortbow with that trapper build. Most people think LB is a lot better weapon than SB.

I’m not sure LB trapper is even on meta battle? If would be 6/6/x/x/x, and you’d probably want signet of renewal or maybe lightning reflexes instead of a 3rd trap.

WvW LB Trapper but I’m still somewhat new I run a:

2 – III
6 – II, VIII, XI
6 – VI, VII, XI
0
0

Build with LB, Axe, and Torch – 3 traps, and entangle. Seems to work for me. Warrior and Thief just depends on their skill level so it is 50/50 at best. You probably don’t need 3 traps but I use them more for speed and fight resets. Maybe it is a crutch – I don’t know.

Short bow works also in my build and sometimes I’ll swap bows or even use both. It just depends on how the WvW fight is going for my roll as a scout, npc and camp flipper.

Durzlla.6295:

You guys over here talking about your drakehounds and wolves and i’m just over here like “My Fernhound and Brown Bear are going to become amazing!”

I don’t even know what the hell the fernhound is let alone if I’ve ever used it

Buell.3701:

I’ve been playing my ranger recently (power ranger LB/GS build) over my ele and it feels very underwhelming. Barrage and Entangle are the only AoE we have that “matters” in blob v blob fights, as well as the small AoE rapid fire provides if you take piercing arrows.

Do you guys feel useful at all to your group? I run with an organized guild group most of the time with 10-15 people and 99% of the time I find me telling myself “Man, if I was on my ele for this fight I would be a lot more useful to the group”. Rapid fire is crazy burst, sure, but it’s single target.

Was just curious as to what you guys think. I really do enjoy playing ranger, and I could just be over thinking the whole thing.

Since you mentioned Ranger and WvW I’ll give you my $0.02 worth. Let me preface by saying I’ve played a Guardian for most of GW2’s release to date. To include Support, DPS, and everything in between and I find the Ranger to be more satisfying. Also, the primary play for me is WvW. Mostly solo, duo, or 5 man havoc.

I find that I actually do better playing on the Ranger even after having fewer hours on it than the Guardian. I can reset fights better, come out ahead more often than not when out numbered, get across the map better, and overall contribute more when target assisting.

I run trapper / condition build mainly with axe / torch and long bow. I will sometimes mix it up and replace short with long bow. To me this is my comfort build that lets me win most fights when facing equally skilled players, regardless of class. It also lets me destroy those who are not clearly skilled. What the build does not, in fact any of my builds allow, is a sure fire win especially when facing higher skilled players. And let us just be honest here, there are players who we all know are just better – and I’m cool with that

One thing I have found is that even on my Ranger I have just about every weapon we can use. To included multiples of with different stats. I have my condition trapper, power zerker, and even a hybrid chill and poison. In fact, talking to a fellow ranger made me want to try yet a 4th build/set after talking to him based on sustain/healing…it never ends.

I guess what I’m saying is that find a lot of different play styles on the Ranger that suit me. I like the range and target assist which just melts faces when assisting. I like the mobility and stealth of the traps. Range and melee are a plus.

At the end of the day I guess I just see more options available to me which makes the game interesting.

Sarision.6347:

Basically it’s a case of “Anything a ranger can do, another profession can do it better.”

I’d disagree. Coming from a Guardian to Ranger I think we can do many things more better. I’m actually surprised that I do 10x better on the Ranger in regards to surviving a fight or resetting than coming from a heavy armor wearing class.

Seriously. Even my guildies are irked in that I’m always on the Ranger now.

Edit: I should clarify – it is just my opinion. Not like it is the be all end all Just how I personally feel.

No one stands in symbols…no one. Maybe PvE.

Even in WvW, small or large group, before we run I say – “Hey, remember the bloody symbols” “They are your friends”….

Nope, nothing. They should even have a air plane come down, sky write it in front of them saying “these are symbols of salvation” and they still wouldn’t be stood in. Not even the ambient bunny does

Standing still in one place for ‘x’ amount of time = death. They need to be removed and changed to a pulse or something with a radius around the Guardian – AoE so people get. Make the Guardian shimmer or have a bubble – but symbols, fail.

Wait, I didn’t get the memo because I thought we all agreed that Rapid Fire was over powered and needed to be nerfed and/or removed?

DarkSyze.8627:

Crapgame.6519:

DarkSyze.8627:

I will continiously say again and again: hackers use tools that is already exploit in the game. Why do you think majority of hackers are thief and mesmer and use Permanant-Teleports , Permanent-Stealth and rewards only?

Obviously!

Can you really blame them?

I do not agree with hackers but when us players complain about these problems already in the game being problematic-exploits, we are always ignored and are called, “noob and L2P”

Well! the hackers are “noob and L2P” than, correct?

Of course! they are, so why complaint against them if we are treated the same?

Again! i do not agree with hackers but are we not being treated the same way as them for reporting the same professions who abuse and exploit the same tools they are using in the game?

I thought all hackers played Rangers, using bears, and only pressed 2 (aka. rapid fire).
Because, well, we all know that takes no skill, challenge, and is OP.

You are correct but can not forget other professions who takes no skills, challenge and Op too

I have something for you too read: I find this funny and you will laugh too

Ranger “-66% cd on next skill after weapon swap”

Yeah, saw that. Now go see what the Warriors got and we’ll talk

Of course this is all “as of now” – we both know things will change regardless. But back on topic. Hackers are across the board and a bit difficult to deal with. It is just a priority thing. I for one would prefer them to spend more time and money on balancing WvW matches / tiers / wall clock coverage and numbers…

DarkSyze.8627:

I will continiously say again and again: hackers use tools that is already exploit in the game. Why do you think majority of hackers are thief and mesmer and use Permanant-Teleports , Permanent-Stealth and rewards only?

Obviously!

Can you really blame them?

I do not agree with hackers but when us players complain about these problems already in the game being problematic-exploits, we are always ignored and are called, “noob and L2P”

Well! the hackers are “noob and L2P” than, correct?

Of course! they are, so why complaint against them if we are treated the same?

Again! i do not agree with hackers but are we not being treated the same way as them for reporting the same professions who abuse and exploit the same tools they are using in the game?

I thought all hackers played Rangers, using bears, and only pressed 2 (aka. rapid fire).
Because, well, we all know that takes no skill, challenge, and is OP.

Sebrent.3625:

Played around with this tonight with great success every game (though all were PUG).

• http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATVjEqUzaLLmsQ1agAha5AEAMXgLw9+mDhdBbqA-TJRHwAEuEAAeCAx2f4YZAA

I also had success moving those 6 points to Beastmastery and relying on Signets instead of Survival skills. Quickness and the extra Vigor were nice. People don’t expect a canine to leap instantly on pet swap … Quickness ftw.

I’m growing attached to having piercing arrows. Having 20% reduced cooldown on all 8 of my non-auto weapon skills is excellent given that 3 of them give me a breather against most opponents (stealth, knockback, daze/stun). Factor in the cripple and you’re good.

I’m loving the lifesteal from Vampirism and Sigil of Leeching. Sigil of Doom is to keep my opponents’ sustain down and helps supplement the poison from the shortbow.

I’m going to play around some other days with replacing the Longbow with Axe+Dagger. Of the weapons, the shortbow felt the best to me and I didn’t have to worry about damage from enemies being closer to me. Might also try the Longbow+Shortbow with Berserker amulet like in that 2014 video that had been posted earlier in this thread.

It is nice to be able to swap weapons and your positioning not have to change.
It is also nice to have so many ways to interrupt your opponent’s OODA-loop.
It is far less obvious to your opponents when you’ve swapped weapons when both your weapon sets are bows.

Try it out. Move some traits around as you’d like.

Hey Sebrent – I played with this build a bit but not in sPvP – out in WvW. I have to say that, well, it is interesting to say the least. I didn’t want to replace my rabid / trap rune armor so used my carrion I had laying around. That set has krait runes which dropped my condi damage down to about 1100 from 1400 on my trap set. I may have to test out traveler.

It seems to have dropped my armor down from 2900 to 2500 which is pretty substantial I thought. Also my crit chance fell from 40’ish down to 31% with crit damage around 168. The biggest issue was travel speed

I was using superior sigil of purity/speed on LB with doom/earth on SB. I also would swap out LB to have incapacitation with hobbling – which rocked with quickening zephyr and sharpening stone

At the end of the day I need to figure out some speed into the build because I think it did well in my duo/trio I was running with taking EBG back a few minutes ago.

sean.6058:

Our damage even with a berserker build is average. Our bunker/tank option is passable, but you trade out so much damage for utility that I don’t think it’s worth it. However, seeing as it’s the only viable option, most Guardian players just go with it.

The only natural condition we apply, burning, lasts for half a second. On use it’s like 4 seconds, but then you have to wait for the recharge. Yeah you could spec for condition duration, but that’s detrimental do your damage output. Which is already average.

Our health pool is hilariously bad, even with the gimmick of aegis/blocks. If you don’t build defensively you will die very fast. I get what they were going for, but the block system needs to be changed if it’s going to justify us having such a low natural health pool.

Half of our weapon skills are useless. Why the shield, the iconic Guardian weapon, is the worst skill, I’ll never know. Other honorable mentions include the torch, hammer, and mace. Scepter needs range increase.

I get what they were going for with the Guardian. But when I feel like I tank better and do more damage with my Thief, something’s wrong. We need more build options. HoT will either fix it or make it even worse.

Guardian is probably one of the better, if not best, balanced class. It just so happens that all others are not At least that is my opinion. Head start, launch, the Guardian was good – maybe a bit broke. But so was everyone else. Since then the degree of separation between classes is pretty noticeable. Hence my comment about the rest of the classes not so balance (looking at engineers and ele’s).

We have burst. It is kitten good. Only issue is what we sacrifice in order to use it. Therein lies the issue. Then complicate matters by having one of the lowest health pools in the game while watching other classes do what our original design was intended better, well – I can see why posts like this come up.

Honestly though there are some very good players still running Guardians. I don’t think it is for the average player anymore and I think it takes more skill to balance that triple meditation / zerk / dps with survival skills. In other words the higher skilled guardian players are looking for the escape routes before they engage the fight. That isn’t something Joe Schmoe knows how to do….

Just my opinion anyway after playing a Guard for a while now but since moved on.

Because I mained a Thane when I played DaOC Who doesn’t like heavy armor?

Seriously though, I rolled an Asura Ele all through the various GW2 beta’s. Upon head start, never once touching a Guardian before, that is what I created. I like the idea of heavy armor, being in the thick of things in PvP/WvW, and offering some form of support.

Enter today the Guardian is a bit on the back shelf as I main a ranger now. I think overall the Guardian is in a great place balance wise but every other class isn’t and some do similar things better. This isn’t a grass is greener sort of thing but when a Shield isn’t really a Shield and a tiny piece of metal (mace/focus) actually block more, well, it makes one ponder the meaning of the class. To me anyway.

But as to why? Heavy armor and front line…

Reflection and line of sight are your best bets. Otherwise you have to close the gap on one of them and put reflect between. Make the ranger move is key within your bunker zone. If this is unrated then losing the point and having it set to neutral for a few ticks while you dance is fine while help comes. As long as you get it back and don’t yield it to them or die…

Also check the match before it starts to see who is playing. You have time to swap stuff around.

The Wizland.8435:

So I recently hopped into PvP to get a better understanding of Guardian (I main Necromancer), and I got completely dominated. I even had toughness as my primary stat, yet it still felt like I got completely burned down in a few seconds. I tried taking lots of healing and protection skills, but that didn’t seem to work. What am I doing wrong here? How does Guardian primarily work?
Edit: I’m using this build. http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_Altruistic_Healing_Bunker

Not to sound like a jerk but you sort of answered your own question

“I main a Necromancer”…and “I recently hopped”

What I mean is that you are not doing anything wrong other than only recently starting to play the Guardian. So you are learning, picking it up, understanding how it works, asking questions, etc. All most excellent things, so you get a A+.

@thread has pretty much summed it up for you with a few tips and tricks. Personally speaking the Guardian is petty well balanced. Unfortunately, the rest of the classes are not which leaves us in a bad place. Again, just my opinion of how the Guardian has evolved since launch when compared to other classes. In fact, I’d almost wager most of the Guardians that started out have since found alts

I think once you get a few more skirmishes under your belt you will be fine.

I use axe/torch as part of my WvW trap build…

No idea what I’d swap it with outside when I do it already with LB.

FrownyClown.8402:

i always wanted to try trapper rune longbow. glad to know it works.

Shush, don’t let the secret out.

@thread: regarding 1vX – I do see both sides. But I always find myself coming back to those of you who play this or any other class and make it look so freaking easy

Anyway, I sure in the heck didn’t mean to stir that argument in this thread, so my apologies. We have enough ranger bashing and hate from other threads we might as well keep this one focused to the solo roaming and conditions Which by the way I still prefer over power. When I am on power/zerk build WvW events and camps are super quick but with traps/conditions I feel I have more control I guess at the end of the day.

Gotejjeken.1267:

Eggyokeo.9705:

If you can win a 1vx it generally means that your opponents are ether not very good, in bad builds/gear or are up levels. but more likely a combination of all 3

This. It’s common sense that if you win a 1vX then the X are worse than you. Two or more functional human beings should not lose to a lone person. If they do, they are either bad or the build is broke.

Both of these comments are a bit generalized, don’t you think? I mean I can sort of see what you are getting at but if we are all being honest, there are just better players. Don’t you agree?

I mean hell, I just engaged a thief the other night in EBG whom I sort of got the feeling was new. So I see your point. For some reason I partied up with him because he kept shadowing me but wouldn’t engage. When I did, he was smart enough to get away just before I finished him – but that 6th sense was there. Anyway, we meet up again later and he lured me to some other players and I was killed. I partied up to make a wise kitten comment about needing friends when we started to chat.

My port is this. His main is a ranger with a lot of time played and he just wanted to test a thief out. I went about my business, we chatted a bit more here and there when later on I was finished by a ranger….2 seconds later he whispers me saying “this is my ranger…” I consider myself average on the Ranger. He did a number on my with double melee weapons. Then proceeded to engage others regardless of numbers.

What I’m saying is that there are people in GW2 who are just better. Nothing is wrong with that. Sort of like before they engage the fight they have an escape route planned or a way to disengage or reset. Then start the fight…I don’t know because I’m not at that level. I just found the statements that when you win uneven fights you automatically assume they are bad mean spirited – but just my opinion

Unlucky Tyrant.5970:

I am not sure if anyone has already made this build or what reception it got from the community, but wouldnt it be possible to combine:

Staff:
- Line of Warding

Shield:
- Shield of Absorption

Skill:
- Sanctuary (with long range trait)
- Judges intervention
- Merciful intervention

Add those all together and what do you have? A group breaking guardian.
I think the reason the meditations would be cool is they can act as a get in/get out, considering you wont have a leap.

So take those avg soldier stat builds and tweak it with this?

Heres a scenario to use it in:

Lots of guys are coming at you, you pop sanctuary at a point where a couple split off being pushed. Then you pop in with judges intervention, pop shield of absorption, slap line of warding just to confuse them more, and when you are ready to pull out and your team is slapping the people who are breaking off the zerg in confusion and being pushed around, you use merciful intervention to get out and get some healing going.

Now you are probably thinking negative thoughts already because it doesnt conform to the meta, but give it a try. Someone I am sure is already running with this and having a blast because people dont see it coming.

Amins has a few builds for which one I believe is busting zergs. He would have to reply though because I may have it mixed up. Either that or he just has a few videos of his handy work.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Crapgame.6519:

It is better than rapid fire is over powered or the class is broke But honestly maybe they are just looking for tips/tricks, etc.

I doubt it that this is the case with that kind of attitude of his.
It resembles a letter of complaint.

About something that… Is not even that bad, actually. Subpar, maybe, but we all know that everything will be subpar to Eles and Guardians concerning WvW.

Maybe, I don’t know. Personally, I like condition based rangers and I find I do better. But that is just me.

You want to talk about classes running condition builds and being subpar, roll a Guardian and come back to this thread and talk That is a class I would agree whereas condition builds are horrible. No matter how many people try otherwise or say it is great, it isn’t.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Why would you sacrifice that for a mere condition build?

I’m not the OP but if I had to guess maybe the comfort level? Again, not speaking for others but one reason I have a condition / trap set-up is because I personally find zerk/power more challenging to play solo. Yes, I can flip camps super easy. But depending on what server(s) we are facing in our WvW match-ups I have to run a safer build otherwise P.E.T.A. calls me. Seriously. Some of these guys have people guarding camps and towers, more stealth comps that make me take my frustration out on the poor ambient creatures Enter conditions, traps, well, I do 10x better and don’t worry about those classes or being out numbered and everyone is happy

I would know why… But if it satisfies you, I have no idea why did you create this thread in the 1st place.

It is better than rapid fire is over powered or the class is broke But honestly maybe they are just looking for tips/tricks, etc.

Darkness.9732:

Guys you all have to forget about ranger.
It’ s totally broken and It has too many limits compared to other classes.

My suggestion : Do not play ranger…Ranger class has no future.
Regards

A retired ranger with 3000+h spent on ranger ( and i regret when i choosed ranger )

Really? You wouldn’t know it by all the ranger is easy mode, no skill, and rapid fire is over powered threads we see daily…

But honestly, the ranger isn’t broke, busted, or anything else. It is actually in a good state. In fact, I’d say it is probably on par with the Guardian in regards to overall balance across all meta’s of play. Sure, you don’t see them in the tournaments but that is a issue of that format of play. Not design or balance. Tournaments form comps that will win or counter comps that will win. It is the same in other games so not unique to gw2.

Roaming on a conditional ranger is pretty good in my opinion but I am also coming from a Guardian. I find I can live longer on the ranger and actually reset the fight if I need to. If I know I can’t win, then usually I can make them waste their time by chasing me across the map.

With my build I’m sitting pretty comfy with 2900 or so armor, over 1400 condition damage, reasonable crit and crit damage, while having mobility of trapper runes. Mix in sigil of incapacitation, some food, and I’m doing well. But that is just my opinion.

Hmm, I don’t know so I’ll let the more experienced rangers address. As a solo roamer though, or even in duo or full party of 5 / havoc, I do see some of the issues you noted. But I found ways to mitigate it because it also happens with my Guardian I’m probably more of a condi build I guess since I run trap runes. Main weapons are usually axe/torch and short bow. I’ll sometimes swap to long bow if I’m with other people.

Trap runes seem to do ok with speed but I’ll start to see issues if i’m running two vs. three traps. I don’t want to swap weapons to get that speed burst so trap runes have to do it. There are other ways such as moa features or food, but I have found more often than not trap runes do it for me. If I see an issue then I’ll bust out my remaining speed boosts to get me through.

Finish move. I have found tricks such as LB 3, tossing a trap, or even hiding behind my pet will let me finish the downed player. So timing with action will let me finish. Otherwise I let my pet finish or do it from range.

This is, of course, coming from a WvW perspective. PvE it is all zerker and I don’t really care much since it is all pew pew and what not. If I am running my power / zerk build in WvW it is yet another story. If I can’t finish the player I run away

Let me also just throw out another idea to him just for fun.

Throw out some party invites to people you fight against in WvW, win or lose, and talk. You might be surprised what you learn. Most of the time I’m sure people think the trash talking will follow but what I personally find is that I end up meeting new people and learning new ideas on gear selection, food, and builds.

Hell, last night I was engaging a thief multiple times in EBG. They ended up killing me, I threw out a party invite, and before I know it he logs back in on his ranger whom he played many more hours and passed along a few more ideas…

GW2 has a great community behind it once you open the door. Before you know it thinks like rapid fire become a non starter….

Good video. Not afraid of engaging if out numbered.

Thanks for sharing.

Gern.2978:

Sebrent.3625:

@Gern:
I’m still not seeing any valid reason why the change you want to Rapid Fire (and other skills) is warranted. Feel free to try again.

Once again I ask: If I have so much disdain and bias against the Ranger class, does that mean I hate myself when I play one? Having a desire to see changes to a class, doesn’t mean you hate that class. If I hated the ranger class, I surely wouldn’t be advocating buffing any aspect of them, especially not their damage, which I have said should be buffed. In fact, I have said several times in this thread that nearly all other aspects of Rangers need to be buffed.

Per your comment above to Sebrent the issue is that you have to dodge twice to avoid rapid fire. With all due respect that is just silly. Even if I tripped over my boot strap while attempting to dodge said rapid fire I wouldn’t be placed into a downed state. I mean maybe if I was running with scissors, tripped, failed to dodge rapid fire maybe I’d meet my maker. But come on man, this has seriously become a silly argument now because, well…we both know our ma’s told us not to run with scissors am I right?

Ok – being serious – dodging is a mechanic in GW2 for all classes. This includes both player inflicted attacks / damage and NPC / ambient creatures. We all have the same endurance bar to start. Consideration is usually factored in during the set up of gear, traits, and of course food. That alone is the counter argument for your proposal. NOTE: You didn’t say damage from rapid fire, you said that you don’t want to have to dodge twice.

Next up you mentioned more AOE damage. I’m not sure about you but LB 5 is plenty. If I want more then I’ll swap to axe/torch and like more up. In fact, I don’t even want more damage. It is perfectly fine the way it is. Ok, in my opinion AoE damage is fine as is our damage. But that is just me.

At about what point in GW2’s history did you start playing the Ranger? Few posts back you made it seem like only a few weeks. Have you played post retail? Did you play it pre rapid fire enhancement? I think that is what is confusing because I don’t believe the ranger is your main and you are championing a major change masking it as a buff – in an area that no rangers are remotely even interested in.

Indiana.3728:

I just felt like adding to this brilliant discussion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEG-ly9tQGk

Lol, no idea how I missed this originally.

I honestly don’t know what to make of it though Is this for real, a joke, what? Whatever it is, it did make me giggle and who doesn’t need a good chuckle at the end of the day

Gern.2978:

Crapgame.6519:

Look – not many people are seeing it the way you are. Maybe it is time to just yield and say maybe you have it all wrong? That isn’t a bad thing you know.

Everyone has opinions, and you should never change your opinion simply because it isn’t popular. I have changed my opinion on a lot of things in my life, but only after hearing a convincing argument for which I could see no equally convincing defense of my own beliefs. As it stands, I personally have not read a convincing argument against my own proposition. Indeed, for several pages people have simply been repeating arguments which I had already responded too several times over.

Hence the bias and disdain comments. It is a debate for which you will not consider any other facts to alter your opinion. I don’t mean it demeaning or derogatory but I just do not see you having an open mind in this argument no matter how many people have tried to explain it.

Then again, it could just be me. I really don’t care at the end of the day. Remove the skill and we’ll find another post regarding Rangers and class balance.

I do wish you golden bombs of light and love though <3

Look – not many people are seeing it the way you are. Maybe it is time to just yield and say maybe you have it all wrong? That isn’t a bad thing you know.

The V.8759:

For the 1000th time: The problem isnt rapid fire nor utilities itself. It is the longbow in the whole picture that has a low skill level to be effectice.

So you want us to assemble or fold a protein before we press our key bind? I mean on a skill level from 1 to 10 that should meet your requirement, yes? Or maybe something a little more mundane by having us solve a rubik’s cube before we press our key bind for rapid fire?

We are playing a video game to escape reality. Not solve world hunger or cancer. But since you went there maybe you could see the other side of it by agreeing that dodge and mitigation is also skill. Using keybinds is skill. Situation awareness is skill.

I suggestion adding some kind of movement skill or a knockdown instead of knockback so the ranger actually has to play well in positioning for example.

We have a position weapon, it is called short bow. Have you actually played a ranger by any chance?

Gern.2978:

Crapgame.6519:

Also just want to point out you are not making any friends with the continued tone and comment by stating rangers have a lower skill level than the rest of the class base. Honestly, it isn’t helping your argument at all and is clearly showing your bias and disdain of the class.

Bais and disdain? I have never once said that ranger is a bad class, or that people who play it are bad. Quite the contrary, I have very much enjoyed playing ranger and I plan to continue playing it, and I have encountered a lot of ranger players who’s skill with a ranger has left me with a great deal of respect for them.

I said that because you keep saying the ranger is easy to play. Actually, let me redact that and clarify. You said rangers using long bow with rapid fire. And also said that during your run in sPvP you mostly saw rangers being played. Something along those lines and that it was because it is easy.

I’m just calling it like I see it. It is bias and disdain. In my opinion, and I’m calling it for what it is, an opinion, is that the Guardian is an easy class to play and why you see so many of them. Note – my main used to be a Guardian. In most cases it still is but the Ranger sees more light of day for s/tPvP.

Now, I’ll be the first to say I may be incorrect but I’ll let the other rangers set me straight if so.

I see that your trapper / celestial build is melee focused. I actually use that exact build although not celestial based. I switch between SB/LB with axe/torch. I have considered building ascended with celestial but the cost is pretty outstanding when you look at it and then find the weapons you use don’t really work.

Nice post though – thanks for putting it together.

Gern.2978:

Crapgame.6519:

The profession requires skill.

Honestly, if it was that easy to play everyone would be playing it and something would have been done by now. Last time. If you trait for maximum range and damage said ranger is going to lose a lot of defense. Those are just the hard facts that the champions of change ignore. Roll one if you don’t believe us.

I did. Before even starting this thread.
I have been playing my ranger exclusively in SPvP for several weeks now. Ranger is obviously not an " I win " button, but it’s required skill level to be effective is far lower than nearly every other class, the Warrior being the only real exception, and that is why you do see a lot of rangers in SPvP. I can safely say that the vast majority of my matches have more rangers between both teams than any other class.

Several weeks, huh? Fair enough. Rated or unrated? Maybe both? Based on the number of games that I have personally played I don’t see the ranger being played anymore than the rest of the classes. The only time I will see “any” class more represented than the others is when that class is the “win” PvP daily. That is about it. Seriously, I just don’t see the picture you are painting. Neither of us have the data so this is subjective at best based on the number of games you have played vs. the rest of us. The only safety here is that we can disagree. See second paragraph below though…

Also just want to point out you are not making any friends with the continued tone and comment by stating rangers have a lower skill level than the rest of the class base. Honestly, it isn’t helping your argument at all and is clearly showing your bias and disdain of the class.

Rezzet.3614:

what everyone overlooks is the WvW aspect of the game where the ranger skill does not matter as there ll be others meleeing or in close ranger of target while ranger goes pew pew and gets free kill theres no ammount of dodges that will save y ou there because a traited ranger’s effective range is 1800-1980 with a skill that is basically a long range 100b without the penalty 100b has wich is lack of mobility

theres a reason why everyones making a zerker ranger nowadays and its not because the profession requires skill .

warriors have a volley skill as well however the warrior rifle has 1200 range and has no extra 500 range offshoot so if you move out of the 1200 range he will garanteed miss .

Not everyone makes zerker ranger.
Read the whole thread – the range comes at a cost.
The profession requires skill.

Honestly, if it was that easy to play everyone would be playing it and something would have been done by now. Last time. If you trait for maximum range and damage said ranger is going to lose a lot of defense. Those are just the hard facts that the champions of change ignore. Roll one if you don’t believe us.

There is no 6/6/6/6/6 build nor is there one that grants range, damage, and defense. That is where the skill comes in and that is where you see the bad, average, good, and awesome players separated. And the kicker is the good and awesome players would probably have beat you anyway in their skivvies because they are just better than us.

Nothing wrong with losing and nothing wrong with the rapid fire ability. Multiple pages of rangers telling you how to avoid, mitigate, and beat the ranger whom uses it.

What is that saying? You can take or lead the horse to water but you can’t force him or her to drink. That is the moral of this threads story.

Sebrent.3625:

Played around with this tonight with great success every game (though all were PUG).

• http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATVjEqUzaLLmsQ1agAha5AEAMXgLw9+mDhdBbqA-TJRHwAEuEAAeCAx2f4YZAA

I wonder how something like this would work in WvW. I do run SB/LB from time to time on my trapper build. Not sure if I could give up trap runes though but I think your build could work. Even replacing runes to something more specific.

Wonder how krait would work or even traveler runes. Mix with prickly pear pie food which is +40 condition duration and 33% chance to steal life on crit it may work. That would leave some more wiggle room with sigils to do other things.

What weapon are you using torment sigils on?

Amins.3710:

Enjoyed the new Empowering Vid (Click Here).

S/T is super fun, as is Mace/Torch. Everyone seems to back off after getting plowed by a Protectors Strike for 5k only to have a 5k Fireball thrown at them shortly after their dodge roll to back off.

Nice video.

I’ve stopped trying to DPS / solo roam on my Guardian. You guys make it look so easy but honestly, it takes some skill to master. Low health, low armor, and some of the trait choices one makes to DPS like that on a Guard – kudos to you guys/gals that pull it off.

Sadly I find myself living longer when roaming on my trapper Ranger I don’t know why that is but I do. Swap back to Guardian and get wrecked time and time again – go figure. But back on topic, very nice video.

Side note to Amins – any new videos from you? And no, I’m not stalking you I see I also posted in another thread you also posted in – lol.

Amins.3710:

Meditation GS + S/F Roaming is viable.

Remember to use Traveller (or Speed) Runes and Sigil of Incompacitation: I put it on my Sword/Scepter.

I was just going to say this. I run GS + S/F and it works. Runes of Travel are a must. If you don’t you can try Moa features but those are a bit expensive now. There is also some food you could try or the speed boosts although I’m not sure if the speed boosts are still available.

Sigil of Incapacitation, while I use it, doesn’t seem to get much attention. Maybe because the short duration. I like it but what do I know.

Edit: I will say that trying to duo/havoc with team mates that are using speed, then yes. Running without any of the items I noted does seem like you are going in slow motion and playing catch up. But then again that is no different than if I’m on my Ranger or Necro.

Just have to make choices and maybe it isn’t easier as other classes.

Not to derail the topic but being a new ranger it was my assumption that short bows are for conditions or bleeds, and to spin them up rather quickly. Compared to long bows that have range and do more damage.

Mind you I was not playing the ranger when SBs had more range. I was on my Guardian at the time so ignorance is bliss And has I have stated a few times, I have no idea what the hell I’m doing when I equip a short bow –

@jcbroe – Regarding the runes, I honestly don’t know. I’m not much of a build person and usually pilfer others post then tweak or break based on my play style For example I run a LB with my trapper rune set – lol. Last night I was just trying out a few things such as melee weapon sets and short bow. Sebrent knows since he and I chatted for a bit – I was getting wrecked non stop out in the various bg’s so whatever I was doing wasn’t working – lol. Or I was just having a bad night – which is ok.

The build I linked was one listed in the Perma – Chill post, here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Perma-chill-power-ranger-WvW/first#post4957590

HandsomeGentleman.9576:

I love it, but there are specific situations where I would take Bark Skin or Empathetic Bond..

Empathetic Bond when I’m running <3 WS skills (signet of stone + signet of hunt)
Bark Skin when going against groups of thieves or heavy burst damage classes.

Poison master does wonders when engaging against dd eles, warriors, and basically any class that relies on sustained heals.

And yes, like other people have said, it’s the -33% healing that matters most, not the extra damage, but the damage doesn’t hurt =).

Just wondering, but from a WvW perspective wouldn’t food negate the -33%? Maybe it is more duration effect rather than the minus to healing but 33 is coming to mind with food.

I was looking at the chill build posted from another thread last night. I’m not a huge fan of the SB and I am horrible with melee

Edit: Here is the build from the thread that is now on the 2nd page:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fNUQRAsf3YjEq0yaNL+rQ1aAAhaVA0OHa2Yw9RsDjdBPmA-TFSEABKoE8hnAge6HAw83RK/iZ/BMV/phTCApAgYsF-w