Guild Wars 2

WvW perspective here. Not a vet on the Ranger by any means since I swap between my Guardian and Ranger. I run two builds more or less one which is full zerk/power and my fav condi/trapper.

2 (III)
6 (II, VIII, XI)
6 (VI, VII, XI)
0
0

I run LB, Axe, Torch with frost, flame, spike traps and entangle. Post patch I’m still trying to figure out what will make sense but it seems I’ll have a few trait points back to spread around. So anything is possible at this point. Since I’m already condition based with traps I’m probably going to continue and focus more on getting people to enter the traps while I pepper them with LB from range – then juke them a bit to toss some axes in there for bleeds. May work, maybe not. We’ll see.

There really isn’t any abuse with the runes of the trapper. They just offer some defensive features when used such as stealth and speed. Both come in handy more so if you run 3 traps. Anyway – post patch I think they may not work as good and I can see myself running krait or even traveler. Swap food around a bit and I’ll probably be right back to today but with perma speed which could be nice.

There actually may be another issue although I’d have to check the patch notes to see if it is in. The WvW rank that offers vitality. I don’t know about others but I’d use this to buff up vitality in my dps/zerk set.

I thought I heard that those are going away. If so this may hurt or bother some players.

I think you replied or quoted the wrong poskittenson. I simply said your buddy can learn the game quickly, and safely, by playing in sPvP where all things are equal. No ascended gear. No food. No WvW rank abilities. Everyone is equal regardless if they are level 1 or 80.

WvW is another story and I have already voiced my opinion on that. Remove it and leave it for the PvE format. At the end of the day we are all bickering over some percentage point difference between those who run a complete ascended set vs. those who run a few pieces from drops or none at all.

No one can argue with a straight face that 1 is less than 2.

MethaneGas.8357:

Crapgame.6519:

I am honestly going to enjoy your posts post patch and your salty alligator tears raining from the sky like skittles.

First of all…. how did you know I’m an alligator…?
Second of all, enjoy your skittles, you seem to like them (I do too <3 ).

Crapgame.6519:

My only regret is that our servers won’t face one another so you personally won’t feel my rangers arrows. But hey, maybe I’ll transfer for a week and we can dance.

Tankitten

, now you are starting to grow on me. Actually, in all seriousness, have a good evening all. Regardless of what side we are on – it is just a game

Puck.9612:

Jana.6831:

Crapgame.6519:

EDIT: Lost connection during this – point is, me pressing 2/rapid fire at you isn’t going to kill you. If you really believe that let us both party up and do a few tests. I’ll hop on my ranger, you on any class. Then you on your ranger, I’ll get on my guardian, and we’ll dance.

To the first few paragraphs: Every player in this game has to make sacrifices that’s no different to ranger so I don’t see why your class should have it worse and I need to pity them.

I can die to rapidfire, given the situation (out of dodges for whatever reason, Sic Em whatever)
What saves me is, now back to Puck,

Puck.9612:

Whoa whoa there. I’m pretty sure you aren’t allowed to use all those other skills as a ranger. According to the experts in this thread you are only allowed to use the first 2 skills on longbow.

You said it yourself: Most Rangers have no idea what they’re doing and that was my initial point in this thread. And don’t pretend you haven’t said yourself, multiple times, that the average ranger is a bad player and therefore doesn’t realize what reflection is. And the way ranger is designed it promotes bad game play as a rapid fire, knockback, 1111 can be enough to kill others, especially when not solo roaming.

No the entire game promotes bad game play. Nothing you just said is strictly a ranger problem. There are far more bad players in this game than there are good players. For example, look at the people in this very thread complaining about how OP longbow rangers are.

Actually – regardless of class you can tell a bad or new player. People tend to believe that if they run a popular build with gear, food, buffs, etc that they will play it as well as those streaming, promoting, or making the videos. And honestly, it doesn’t work that way.

Every class takes time to learn just as much as it takes time to know how to fight other classes. I’ve come to understand that some players are just better and get it – they are gamers and do this regardless if they are playing hello kitty, duke nuke’m, or gw2. Others take a longer time to learn and are collateral damage in the whole mess.

Whatever, it is late and this debate isn’t going anywhere.

Rangers have no skill. We are over powered. Rapid fire is broke. Arena Net – please remove the skill from the game or delete our class from your source code to make the few posting here happy.

MethaneGas.8357:

“Oh god, that person must be 500 years old!”
Ever heard of exaggeration?

Yes. I have. Which is why I replied the way I did so you would write this. You finally understand what everyone in this thread is saying. That you are exaggerating the whole rapid fire and rangers are broke debate.

Here is a news flash for you. A patch is coming and I’m going to get a few trait points back that I would have otherwise spent for range and damage. I am honestly going to enjoy your posts post patch and your salty alligator tears raining from the sky like skittles.

My only regret is that our servers won’t face one another so you personally won’t feel my rangers arrows. But hey, maybe I’ll transfer for a week and we can dance.

coglin.1867:

TakeCare.3182:

coglin.1867:

Watson.6492:

I don’t think rangers are problematic but to be fair it is really weird that this is a game where a ranger can just press 2 and instantly kill someone with zero setup.

That only works with very bad player. Rangers are fine. All this thread is, is a lot of complaints about how bad players are bad. Why should a profession be changed to compensate such bad players. Anyone to bad to handle a measly long bow, really deserves to die.

This attitude is problematic, tbh. There isn’t much any player can do, regardless of skill, when a ranger +1s a fight. There isn’t much any player can do, regardless of skill, when some ranger is sitting behind a huge frontline doing 3k damage per auto. You must think really highly of yourself. lol.

Perhaps your attitude is the problematic one? I mean, when 12 posters out of the millions of players who bought this game (which is precisely how many are complaining here, with multiple, repeated post each) assume anyone who can handle what they are incapable of handling, think too highly of themselves, well it says a lot to me, about the few complainers.

What profession do you play mainly? I run as a large guild and map commander on a T1 server, so I specifically get focus fired by 5 ranger groups. I lead in celestial, ascended gear. So it is not like I am pure tank. I use my shield block and shield reflect, s well kitten calling for reflection walls from my guardians.

I am not debating with you, what intelligent play may or may not provide in this case. I am explaining how it is proven fact, that it does.

You literally stated, that being auto attacked to death is your argument. If you do not have the situational awareness to take one step back, out for range, call for a reflect, use a reflect of your own, dodge out, or use a movement skill to get away, then you, are indeed, your own worst enemy, not a ranger.

Use a build editor to link your build, perhaps we can offer you some advice in how to adjust the build, or use the build you have, to deal with ranged damage.

+1 for situational awareness.

ArchonWing.9480:

Crapgame.6519:

ArchonWing.9480:

TakeCare.3182:

Puck.9612:

I’m confused. You think I’m a zergling because I main a ranger? What the hell sense does that make?

Sorry, bae. You said it yourself.

Puck.9612:

Any pug commander that tries to say any profession is worthless in a pug zerg has no idea what he is talking about… I personally love running ranger in a zerg.

Nice no scope kill, Methane.

Digging up stuff from another thread to attack someone seems a bit excessive. Besides, his statement isn’t mutually exclusive with not zerging though.

This wall of reflect brought to you by a guardian main. :p

No No No ArchonWing. We both know that the skill and mindless Ranger standing a few miles away, er, I really mean 1,500 range, number 2 button mashing SOB, rooting tooting rapid fire mother beaver brainless player arrows will pass through your mighty Wall of Reflection!!!

No, we can’t have that. You have no survival options to my mighty and over powered Rapid Fire. In fact, I’m pointing my long bow at your Guardian as I type this. Yes, those are my arrows hitting you.

Are you dead yet?

Yea really. How can anyone win when you take 6/6/6/0/0 with signet of stone, Quickening zephyr, Signet of the Hunt, Sick’em, Healing Signet, Shield of Wrath, For Great Justice, Elixir U, and Signet of the Wild? And don’t forget the panda that does 50k damage.

I could have died you know. Fortunately, I just walked away but you know, it takes a lot more skill for me to use wall of reflection. After all, I have to click one button to almost kill you if you don’t react That’s much more skill than you, merely pressing 1 button to kill me if I don’t react.

Anyhow, I think I lost. Anyone want these? https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Packet_of_Salt

:) I like you.

I also love Wall of Reflection. It is a great utility and I wish more guardians would use it.

Jana.6831:

Crapgame.6519:

So you are saying the recent buff to LB was because Arena Net listened to rangers who stood still using a long bow and pressing a single key / skill tied to rapid fire?

Wow. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

I more or less said that, yes.
But maybe there was no other way to buff LB anyway as it already had been designed to work without any skill combo and that was wrong.

Ok. Not sure how to answer that other than at least you are honest. Kudo’s and I do mean that.

I disagree though because I see it the other way around. Said ranger has to make some difficult choices when they trait for max damage at max range. Let me repeat that so we are on the same page.

Max damage at max range.

We both know that every class has the same number of trait points, weapon and utility slots. Agreed? If I trait for max damage and range that means I am giving something up in regards to survival. Am I running solo? Maybe I’ll take sic’em. Hmm…server I’m facing this week is low on roaming thieves, forget sic’em and pick something else. See what I did?

Am I in a zerg? Ok, let me pick other utilities because my play will be different. Do I run a trap, say muddy terrain? Lightening reflexes? Entangle? Rampage as one? Hmm…I don’t know. It depends. Wait, what weapon set do I use?

Am I hovoc roaming, ganking, or just roaming doing dailies and looking for a fight. I am not stationary waiting for the loan passer by. This isn’t DaOC whereas I’m camping a main gate. This is GW2 that doesn’t have many choke points

EDIT: Lost connection during this – point is, me pressing 2/rapid fire at you isn’t going to kill you. If you really believe that let us both party up and do a few tests. I’ll hop on my ranger, you on any class. Then you on your ranger, I’ll get on my guardian, and we’ll dance.

ArchonWing.9480:

TakeCare.3182:

Puck.9612:

I’m confused. You think I’m a zergling because I main a ranger? What the hell sense does that make?

Sorry, bae. You said it yourself.

Puck.9612:

Any pug commander that tries to say any profession is worthless in a pug zerg has no idea what he is talking about… I personally love running ranger in a zerg.

Nice no scope kill, Methane.

Digging up stuff from another thread to attack someone seems a bit excessive. Besides, his statement isn’t mutually exclusive with not zerging though.

This wall of reflect brought to you by a guardian main. :p

No No No ArchonWing. We both know that the skill and mindless Ranger standing a few miles away, er, I really mean 1,500 range, number 2 button mashing SOB, rooting tooting rapid fire mother beaver brainless player arrows will pass through your mighty Wall of Reflection!!!

No, we can’t have that. You have no survival options to my mighty and over powered Rapid Fire. In fact, I’m pointing my long bow at your Guardian as I type this. Yes, those are my arrows hitting you.

Are you dead yet?

Jana.6831:

Puck.9612:

And that means all I do is zerg? Logic.
Also you might want to take a look at the build I posted in that thread. I’ve used that 900 range build to kill longbow rangers plenty of times. In fact I’ve easily killed longbow rangers more times than I can count on every single profession. It helps to not be terrible at the game.

And that is the point: Most rangers are terrible because they don’t really need to play. Doesn’t mean that no one can kill them, just that those few rangers who know how to play have got really powerful tools because the average stand still ranger demanded buffs (mind you, LB was in need of a buff, I just don’t think that it went the right way).
A friend of mine who’s on a server currently opposing us tries hard to kill me, he might actually learn ranger because of it

So you are saying the recent buff to LB was because Arena Net listened to rangers who stood still using a long bow and pressing a single key / skill tied to rapid fire?

Wow. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

Puck.9612:

TakeCare.3182:

Puck.9612:

I’m confused. You think I’m a zergling because I main a ranger? What the hell sense does that make?

Sorry, bae. You said it yourself.

Puck.9612:

Any pug commander that tries to say any profession is worthless in a pug zerg has no idea what he is talking about… I personally love running ranger in a zerg.

Nice no scope kill, Methane.

And that means all I do is zerg? Logic.
Also you might want to take a look at the build I posted in that thread. I’ve used that 900 range build to kill longbow rangers plenty of times. In fact I’ve easily killed longbow rangers more times than I can count on every single profession. It helps to not be terrible at the game.

Someone has to live, someone has to die. Thank God for bad players, yeah?

I call that “thinning the herd”

MethaneGas.8357:

Effort in pressing a button and watching things die from miles away? Honestly… any other zerk class has to try 10 times harder to deal high damage and they are all 10 times more risky than a ranger.

Do you fish by any chance? Since when does 1,500 in game clicks equate to miles? You are seriously telling a tall tale. Create a ranger, enter a custom / private sPvP game with some friends. Try the class then come back and tell me about your survival skills when you go full dps/zerk on the open field. 1,500 range is nothing to any class that is aware of their surroundings. We have beat that horse to death by dodge, LOS, charge, hide behind friends, etc.

Ok so you can dodge one auto attack, another auto attack, sure… then comes Rapid Fire… you gotta dodge that, or there comes the knock back, you gotta dodge that too because if you don’t you’ll eat Rapid Fire… then there’s entangle, the pet fear or immob… all the while the auto attacks are wrecking you. So how many dodges are we supposed to have? Especially when you’re already fighting someone else. Last time I checked, I had about 2.

You just stated that we had miles and miles between us. Care to explain how any of the other stuff comes into play say like entangle? Honestly, you don’t have to dodge anything. You do have to decide when to dodge though. Just like I do. Oh, and you can increase your dodge / endurance but I’m sure you forgot about that…or do those rules only apply to Rangers?

Again, you will not die or get insta-gib’d by a Ranger unless you are asleep at the wheel, afk, or upscaled. Like I said, I don’t get killed by a single rapid fire volley on my Guardian who in DPS/Zerk has a base health pool just a tick over 14k

Ah so while I’m running from a group, kiting I’m just gonna somehow make the newly arrived ranger disappear? Maybe I’ll tell my thief friend to go after him! Oh wait… they’re immune to damage for 5 seconds… oh wait… they’ve got Sic’ Em. Oh wait… they’re 1500 units away from the actual fight… Oh wait… there’s 2 of them, and now you’re Entangled.

I’m really confused now because you make it sound like I have every skill on my bar. Is this something new and unique to the ranger? Seriously, stop. You are playing the Jester part well I’ll give you that but boy are you ignorant (not a personal attack because I’m ignorant of many things too).

Look, you may be a swell fella. We might even share an adult beverage if you are of age. Point is, which many have already said, Rangers have to make choices in order to DPS at max range. While you don’t think so we have the same number of trait points and skills to use. We have to choose if we are using entangle or rampage as one, or any other elite. We have to choose to use sic em or say a trap. We can’t have all the cool bells and whistles no matter how many times you click your heels/shoes together, it just isn’t so.

Yes, we have range. But we have to trait for it. There are cool downs. Close the gap then come back and tell me how it goes because the ranger now is on the defensive which little to no abilities to disengage or reset the fight.

And if you lose, so what. You didn’t die in real life. No body got hurt. Heck, party with the person, talk a bit, learn from it, and move on. Sometimes we just get beat by a better player – that doesn’t mean you come to the forums and complain.

Pick any of the 1 through 15 servers and you will have fun. At the end of the day it is just a numbers game and 24×7 coverage that separates them. It isn’t skill so don’t let the rankings fool you. Seriously.

There are things people pointed out that are critical like queues but other than that any of the 15 are fine. Few of them are falling due to transfers but that gets back to my numbers and wall clock coverage – not because their player base sucks. Just drama and age

You could look at the current rankings then ask yourself a few questions:

Do you have a easy time talking to, or meeting new people?
Do you mind queues?
How competitive are you?
Do you follow or lead?
Are you shy?
Do you have a ego?

May sound like dumb questions but every server has clicks. Some are not as friendly to new players until they get to know them due to transfers, etc. I guess what I’m trying to say it isn’t just the server or ranking but more of how you play and what may make you comfortable.

Even the servers on the bottom side of the list still have fun. WvW is what you make of it and that of the player base. Best of luck.

TakeCare.3182:

coglin.1867:

Watson.6492:

I don’t think rangers are problematic but to be fair it is really weird that this is a game where a ranger can just press 2 and instantly kill someone with zero setup.

That only works with very bad player. Rangers are fine. All this thread is, is a lot of complaints about how bad players are bad. Why should a profession be changed to compensate such bad players. Anyone to bad to handle a measly long bow, really deserves to die.

This attitude is problematic, tbh. There isn’t much any player can do, regardless of skill, when a ranger +1s a fight. There isn’t much any player can do, regardless of skill, when some ranger is sitting behind a huge frontline doing 3k damage per auto. You must think really highly of yourself. lol.

Sure there is. Retaliation, cc, reflection, etc. It is no more than stealth, turrets, clones, etc. Every class has some sort of advantage and counter. Primary PvP mechanic of the game is called dodge. Everyone has the same endurance bar unless they make some hard choices on how it regens…

Lastly, if you leave the ranger alone behind the line you reap what you sow. You have a team and there are members of that team designed to counter that. I’ll put it this way. The problem isn’t the Ranger or the range. It is the design of the game in that everyone looks at the bags of skittles on the ground, aka loot, rather than playing as a team and doing a job.

If you removed any form of reward outside ranks or bragging rights on leader boards people would be willing to do their job. But instead everyone thinks of karma trains and loot these topics come up. Defending, flanking, and teamwork this wouldn’t be a issue.

Learn to dodge. Play as a team. Non issue.

Next.

TakeCare.3182:

Substance E.4852:

TakeCare.3182:

How anyone could possibly justify 3k auto attacks from 1500 range is beyond me. With Fire and Air, one auto attack can take out 1/3-1/4 of your total HP. Simply broken.

Yeah, the thief in the video failed to dodge. Maybe he was autorunning, maybe he wasn’t paying attention, maybe he was bad. It doesn’t really matter. The video demonstrates the ridiculous damage one can deal with absolutely no effort from a completely safe distance. Whether you’re on a wall or in a zerg, it’s just not acceptable.

The justification is you live by the glass, you die by the glass.

Full zerk comes with drawbacks equal to the benefits. That called balance.

LOL. Okay. Well, it is one thing to be glass and do lots of damage. It is another thing to be glass and do lots of damage safely without effort.

So how much effort do you expect me to do before I use Rapid Fire? I mean are we talking pitching 9 innings of baseball or playing 18 rounds of golf? Maybe do a load of laundry, iron my shirts for the week, clean the bird cadge, walk my dog, and finish the novel I’m writing between pressing button 2?

Seriously, stop it already. There is effort. There is risk. I can’t help it if the person I’m using Rapid Fire doesn’t have good situation awareness. If my target had any sense at all they would:

Dodge
LoS
Hide behind a tree (except Dolly Parton)
Hide behind ambient creatures, dead yaks, guards, NPCs, etc
Jump into a lower part of terrain / use height
Charge ranger
Reflect
Retaliation

You will not get killed by eating a single Rapid Fire burst unless you are naked or upscaled. I know this for a fact because I don’t get killed on my Zerk Guardian which has one of the, if not, lowest health pools in the game when they run full zerker and meditations in WvW.

A duel in WvW is a mixed bag because anyone can have anything.

A duel in sPvP is not a mixed bag because it comes down to stat, rune, and sigil choice. No noise like ascended, food, etc.

GW2 isn’t duel based.

WvW is won by population and 24×7 wall clock coverage. Ascended isn’t going to overcome numbers.

Coinhead.7591:

Crapgame.6519:

10% is still 10%. What is 10% of 100 dollars? What is 10% of 1,000? That number is growing now, yeah? Let me ask you a question. How would you feel if I took away 10% of your speed? You would notice that I’m guessing.

WvW is a numbers game at the end of the day with population and wall clock coverage winning the day. Not so much skill in that. Easiest solution is to treat both PvP metas the same and let the PvE boys and girls have their stats to min/max.

Its not like that. Its more like

Each player has 1000 dollars.
Each player with exotic gets 1000 dollars more.
Players with ascended get 1000 and 10% bonus = 1100 dollars.

Exo players have 2000 dollars
Asc players have 2100 dollars

By gaining 10% more stats from ascended gear the player becomes 5% more powerful.

10%, 5%, the debate is a lot like peeing in the wind. Once we are done we both know what is going to happen to our pant leg… Point is, do you want to be 10% or 5% or any number there of slower than the rest of the player base? Yes, my question is a trap, I’ll admit it because I don’t want to be slower outside boosts, food, sigils, or runes…

What value add does ascended gear bring to the table in the WvW format of play?

If it was really an original concept and design one has to ask what it brings to the table outside economy, grinds, and goals. You could have min and maxed stat distribution with exotics so that can’t be the issue. We already had long term goals with forging legendary weapons or unlocking mystic forge items.

I don’t know but my opinion is they don’t belong. But hey, I’m the first to admit I’m not the developer, designer, or person paying their bills. They added them, there is an expansion pack coming, and ascended gear still seems to be available to those who want them in WvW. No matter how much I disagree.

But I can still have an opinion

Watson.6492:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

People still complaining that wvwers only have no asc? While I agree wvw is way slower in acquiring mats than pve, the loot is still there and unless you are one of the few that upgrade everything all the time. you should be able to craft some asc by now.

This viewpoint is ridiculous. What if I want to get my friend into the game, an avid LoL and DotA player? He’s not going to play WvW if he’s at a disadvantage for a substantial amount of time, plain and simple.

If only people who have grinded on the game for a year are able to compete, it instantly becomes an unplayable disaster.

Maybe not, but your buddy can create a character and play un-ranked sPvP games without being at a disadvantage. He will even learn the class he chose a bit better by facing fewer people with evenly matched teams all things considered. And while doing so earning gear and tombs to reach 80 when he/she wants.

Don’t be so negative – at the end of the day everyone has to get comfortable with the game. That will take a bit of time. Might as well have a bit of fun while doing it and let the lego’s fall into place rather than all over the floor for you to step on later.

Nobody likes stepping on a lego, am I right?

10% is still 10%. What is 10% of 100 dollars? What is 10% of 1,000? That number is growing now, yeah? Let me ask you a question. How would you feel if I took away 10% of your speed? You would notice that I’m guessing.

WvW is a numbers game at the end of the day with population and wall clock coverage winning the day. Not so much skill in that. Easiest solution is to treat both PvP metas the same and let the PvE boys and girls have their stats to min/max.

Why can’t the shield just block like it is supposed to? Serious question, why does the focus, tiny object, block more than a larger object?

I’ve often wondered if we have too many weapons available that block and maybe that is complicating things a bit. Mace, focus, sword, shield, et al. Muddy water blues in my opinion but I was really hoping for some shield love in the way of blocking, guarding, and pushing. Not having a baby pushing but more of a serious front line player bashing faces and taking names hiding behind a garage door type thing.

Natfrog.4310:

inspirational text mode off

Congrats you just enforced everything that is WRONG with a RANGER. I GW univers RANGER is supposed to use a BOW. If you are saying I MUST use mele weapon to be useful it is infact broken. Thank you for agreeing with me.

Don’t think he said that at all. There are a few classes that are required to keep all weapons they can use in their inventory. It is called use the right tool for the job. What he is saying in short – there are strength and weakness to the class and one must know them and adapt.

Samis.1750:

This change makes the trapper build a lot less fun to play. For that reason alone I despise the change. They could increase the trap damage to a million and I wouldn’t care.

Yup. One of the reasons why they are used is the versatility they offer with stealth and speed. Can’t say how many times I’d get the party invite and yelled at for hacking

If the stealth is reduced by .5 seconds or leaves only .5 seconds there is no reason to use them and they are in essence worthless now. Or I would question the utility in them now.

Sebrent.3625:

I feel like you’re talking past each other.

There are options for a Ranger to be quite mobile. There are options to be less mobile and have some range. There are options to be less mobile but even more deadly from range.

What is so hard about accepting the right tools for one role are different from the right tools for another and that there is a whole spectrum of options available for the class?

It is the top tier server ego talking rather than the approach you note. That or WvW zerging is different between tiers. Last time I checked there is only 3 servers in the match up and only one can come in 1st…

The way he is making it sound everyone is playing a specific class or the same one while the Ranger is left playing water or towel boy…

Every class is facing similar situations Nat – and getting away and taking a breather in a keep or tower while CD’s return isn’t a bad thing.

The way I see it is there are Ranger builds that work well solo, there are builds that work well in Havoc. And there are also builds that work well in zerg combat allowing survival. One has to find the comfort level to match their skill.

Then at the end of the day there are just better players who can play naked and do well. At the end of the day I don’t think Arena Net designed the game for a single player to face and live against 50. I could be wrong though.

Toxsa.2701:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/June-23-Specialization-Changes

So the official themselves posted the detail changes on official blog. No more speculation or oversight.

There’s no QoL changes for the following:

1. TU is NOT a survival
2. HaO is NOT a shout
3. RaO is NOT a shout
4. Healing Spring is NOT a trap
5. Nothing mentioned about the radius/range of our off-hand enhancement being baseline.
6. No QoL change for Axe 5…
7. No QoL change for Warhorn 4…

Extremely disappointed and feel like being scammed + betrayed.

Maybe you should go visit the Guardian forums…or any others that are not Engineers, Elementalist, or Mesmers…

Natfrog.4310:

This is not an issue of skill. This is an issue of mass amount of CC and just plain out death for a non mobile class. Warriors can easily sword 2 or GS5,3 thieves can stealth shortbow 5 shadowstep eles can ride the lightning mist and the list goes on and on and on off weapon skills and traits. Ranger is left sitting there like a duck with no hope of moving because even with the signet your movement speed is completely negated as soon as your first arrow hits and swiftness does nothing at this point that other classes cannot out run or gap close.

It is a issue when your opening statement is “I must ask what low tier servers play on”.

But hey, I don’t want to mince word or argue over spilled milk. There are ways to disengage to some degree such as GS and those skilled with sword. I guess it goes back to my point whereas I said situational awareness wins.

Anyway – back to the argument and apologies for nit picking or focusing on the one sentence…

Natfrog.4310:

Klonko.8341:

anduriell.6280:

Sebrent.3625:

Our only sources of cleanse are in Wilderness Survival, eh? What about…

• Healing Spring
• Signet of Renewal
• Brown Bear
• Evasive Purity

You keep misleading ppl. Seriously i’ll ask you to please stop the theorycarfting. Play with a ranger for real, don’t just say you do.

I wrote about this before in an answer to another post of yours and you keep repeating yourself. I’ve proven several times you are wrong.

• Healing spring is now a trap. HS is very mild healing and you loose your only realiable healing skill.
• SoR entirely depends on your pet to be alive. Not good when your pet like to swim in AoE.
• Brown Bear cast the skill at the target you have now. Not at the spot like the cabagge dog do with the healing. So if you are not in melee Brown Bear is trash.
• Evasive Purity right now only serves for blind and possion with 10 secs CD. with the balance it will cleanse cripple as well so is better. Not good enough when burning, confusion, slow, chilled… Misleading i call that.

Runes or sigils are a no go. Why should i sacrifice dmg output to clean conditions when any other professions have cleanses even in weapons skills?

So please stop spreading this kind of misinformation and please try to be objetive. If you actually play with ranger you know what i say it’s true.

Ranger is already a broken profession and after the balance of the 23th it will become the pariah of gw2.

Personally glass bow ranger doesnt need them as they can pew pew from 1500 and anyone closing the gap should be close to dead once they reach them. If not, you deserve to die. So condi cleanse is only good with mid-close range build and those always pick wilderness survival or used to.

And glass bow can make use of brown bear. As they are good protect me fodder and signet of stone + protect me is 12 sec of invulnerability, enough to kill everything or make them run.

And to remedy to the AI pet mental illness, you can play them in passive mode if you have only supportive pet. Ranger is hard to master because of the tracking of the pet.

And for healing spring, we dont know yet how it will work but atm it can cleanse 6 condition if you stand in it. But pratically it is more like 2-4 condis.

So for pew pew ranger it is enough condi cleanse for a sniper. If you fighting close combat with pew pew ranger, you doing it wrong.

I must ask what low teir servers do you play on where a singled out ranger standing WAY behind the line at 1500 range is not solo’d out and insta gibbed? Positioning is key you say? Takes 3 times longer to sweep back behind the mele train when you are that far behind your frontline and when 50 plus people look at you you melt as a sniper. Popping sig of stone does nothing when you have 12 plus seconds of immob and EVERY other condi. Either you have no clue how broken ranger is or you build a bunker only and havok. Zerg fighting is either run away or pick off one and hope like hell you can hide before they look at you. What other backline has as few mobility skills as a ranger?

This isn’t directed at me but I really dislike how people automatically assume low tier servers have zero skill… /sigh. Just because you landed or transferred to a higher server does not mean you have more skill. A under populated server in relationship to time can’t make up the difference a higher populated wall clock server ticks.

Regardless and to your comment not everyone runs in a zerg and at the end of the day it does come down to situational awareness. Leaving a ranger alone at range people are going to die. Said ranger not knowing when to disengage or cut and run will also face a similar fate.

That is my experience – and I play on a middle of the pack server that goes by the name of Ehmry Bay (since beta).

Manekk.6981:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

Manekk.6981:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

Manekk.6981:

Rym.1469:

Well, that totally screws up Runes of the Trapper.

No more wise trap spreading to avoid reveals, keeping the cycle and luring into traps.

Ontop of that the 0.5 second activation time means spike trap will break the stealth and frost trap does pulsing damage like the rest, so this rune used in any way for the stealth as a defensive tool is now impossible

?? plant it away from Targets you have ranged SB so why are you so close to trigger it , its just reversed its use , get away first plant it gain stealth > 0.5sec later trap is primed and ready for use by then the chasing player will ether be a numty and go to your last stealth location and try to cleave.

its just backwards now rather than throwing the trap and staying close with stealth like a thief….which we could not be doing in the first place this promotes Back away / skirmish use rather than spamming traps for offensive use , youd throw a trap gain stealth run around a bit , till it triggered , its just reversed thats all , the runes are still viable you’ll just have to skirmish first and use stealth+ the super speed to repostion and alternate traps two for offensive use , one for defensive use to garrentee you get a stealth its viable you’ll just have to change your combat tactics.

Well it can be used preemptively of course but you don’t have the guaranteed stealth anymore like before where you could drop one at your feet in your opponents face and get away to re-position, you could do that with both spike and frost now neither will work for it so you don’t have any guaranteed stealth with this change.

you’ll get the steath on cast but you’ll only have access to 0.5secs of stealth untill the trap triggers ether way the trap will trigger so whats the change none really , if you want longer stealth windows you have to change Combat tactics just like i said before .

Don’t you see the point I’m making? the change is if you got jumped before you could drop a trap at your feet in your opponents face and gain the full 3s of stealth or 6s if you used first spike then frost this was enough to almost always get away if multiple opponents tried to gank you, 0,5s of stealth will not help you at all in this scenario you’re plain dead 0,5s stealth or none so we have lost almost all the survivability the runes gave if this is how you used them and since we won’t be able to ground target them anymore you can’t throw them to the side of your enemy either this is a pretty big change I’d say.

I may have missed this note then in the patches – the trap runes are adjusted or the amount of time for stealth reduced? .5 seconds of stealth is nothing and if so then those runes are no longer viable. Which may be nice since I’ll just go back to krait or traveler…

Edit: This was a reply to anduriell.6280 since my quote seemed to be malformed

Runes or sigils are a no go. Why should i sacrifice dmg output to clean conditions when any other professions have cleanses even in weapons skills?

Just wondering, why are runes, sigils, and food are off the table or a no-go? Every other class has similar choices to make. That is why they are there and why some even make you be a crafter to use.

To me it seems like a viable option…

Sebrent.3625:

I’m thinking we might see more use of Traps with longbow. With 1,500 range, you can try to force a target to come towards you. If they don’t, you outrange them.

That’s the theory on paper anyways … I want to get to playtest everything … #impatient.

That is my primary weapon LB with traps in WvW Too much goodness to pass up and much more survivability minus a few ticks of damage difference in the long run. Honestly that is how traps work now anyways. You pretty much use them to kite and get range pretty much as you said then unload with RF

Liewec.2896:

throwing traps gone…BUT you now knockdown with spike trap and deal 33% more damage with poison and bleed through traits, AND all of your traps cripple.

plus you take A THIRD less damage above 90% health,
plus 5% less damage whenever you have regen,
and when they hit you you cause weakness and gain prot.

how are you not buzzing with anticipation for this?

its like tanky condi heaven.

Me, it is how I currently play so it is more of a change of game play that is a bit frustrating. However, we do get a trait point back now so maybe it is a good thing. Not sure until I try it.

I always hated when I changed trait arrangement and couldn’t throw traps. In fact I thought it was a bug at first (newb ranger at the time) until another fella ranger poked fun of me and ‘educated me’

Sebrent.3625:

Our only sources of cleanse are in Wilderness Survival, eh? What about…

• Healing Spring
• Signet of Renewal
• Brown Bear
• Evasive Purity

There are also runes and sigils if you’re truly concerned about it … several options.

So this is the crap I’m talking about with regards to your posts saying things that simply are not true. Wilderness Survival is obviously not our only source of cleanses.

Bears have a bad rap…

mistsim.2748:

I don’t know much about PVE, but I think im gonna go with a 0/6/0/6/6 trapper/condi/BM build. it’s really easy to stack and maintain bleeds, burns and poison now, in addition to pets hitting like trucks. you can go a/d + a/t or SB/a/d with 3 traps.

I’ll be running something like this but with LB/Axe/Torch… May have to ditch torch though but I’m already running 3 traps in WvW with trapper runes. Lots of utility regardless of what class you run into or their numbers and always have escape options.

I run 1400 or so condition on my current Ranger with trapper runes, LB, axe and torch.

We’ll see but I am leaning towards disliking the patch especially for my Guardian. Ranger it may not matter as long as you stay at range which should be easier now since 1500 is baseline.

Outside of vanity why bother? It has been known for some time now that they are not great at skill / trait balance and we knew the exp was upon us.

Anyone crafting ascended gear this late in the game. I know you said legendary but it is almost in the same category outside shiny and sparkles…

Buran.3796:

Xhyros.1340:

Guardian can actually do condition stacking with the change to burning.

The new trait system is a hell more restrictive that the current one; after the changes the only “viable” build in duels/PvP will be pure zerker meditation based ones.

And you will probably end up wrecked running a pure dps build.

Favored classes got the attention. Rest didn’t. Guardians fall into the latter.

Adapt or play an alt. Could also be a good time to take a break and wait out the expansion pack.

Tragic Positive.9356:

- The Trap changes are a nerf we didn’t deserve. No one was using them before, no one will use them now.

I agree with the nerf / adjustment comment. However, I’m not sure I would say no one was using them before. From a WvW perspective they are very powerful when used with trapper runes and certain builds. In this case I can see why they did what they did although I don’t agree with it.

Guards spawn but enemy. So guards fighting guards regardless of what area or map

Wonder what was being changed in that area of code to trigger this…

Lots of things are broke right now, that are really broke…

For example, take any of the WvW maps whereas enemy guards appear in your tower or camp. Guards are fighting guards triggering activity when nothing is really there…

Sebrent.3625:

Crapgame.6519 about Guardians in the meta:

No doubt about the ELementalist … friggin golden child.

• sPvP … we only have 5 in a group … 2 should be Elementalist … on most tourney-level teams … there’s a red flag
• PvE meta … we have only 5 in a group … 2 should be Elementalist … most, if not all, the current record holders have 2+ Elementalists … there’s a red flag.
• WvW meta … Can provide boons, CC, counter CC, condi cleanse, direct and condition damage at the same time, large amounts of AOE, and still be mobile … useful both for zerging and roaming … one of the 4 classes of GWEN

As far as Guardian

• Not as used as Elementalist, but still quite useful in sPvP and taken more often than Ranger and others.
• Always loved in PvE. Solid dps, reflects, boons, etc.
• WvW … an essential part of GWEN … in fact, most are happy with just GWE … <sarcasm> bench those necros … why should they be relevant </sarcasm>

@Crapgame.6519 again about the Guardian forum:

They seem to not have grasped that:

• Name doesn’t mean a thing … grow up and get over the name … our Druid could have been designed to run around with a Rifle … I would laugh and just go with it.
• You don’t have to use the Longbow with the new Elite Specialization … and why would you when you can easily get over +50% damage with a Greatsword that is going to return that damage as health … and this was with us ignoring a 3rd specialization that would have provided even more +% damage or a huge amount of +% crit chance.
• Mobility is useful … most of them know about swiftness, meditations, and stacking as much block/aegis/etc. as possible … because some actual good Guardian showed it to them as the way for even a monkey to do well while they facetank stuff in a game where facetanking wrecks just about everyone else … because it’s action-combat … unless you can facetank … so the usefulness of a leap that provides more mobility and a heal and can be traited to do damage and immobilize … so all 4 things … is beyond most of them … we suffer from some of the same here though … seen some pretty dumb posts.
• They don’t understand why you would bother with cripple, blind, etc. … because stack blocks, heals, etc. and press every damaging ability when its off cooldown nets many of them kills as several players still haven’t figured out how to kill that.

I see your points and do agree. And also well said.

Toxsa.2701:

Funny thing is those Guardian whiners are crying about DH being useless LOL…
They can potentially be a better ranger class and yet they’re complaining about it being too weak.

I don’t believe that is what they are whining about if truth be told. I think they are trying to grasp why the development team gave them traps and some extra mobility via a leap. Of course they are still boggled by the overall name. Then again, maybe we are just a whiney player base.

Sebrent.3625:

It’s not so much that Ranger “is a 2nd class citizen” so much that Ele/Guard/War have had solid positions in the meta of every game mode. With the large changes coming from the Specialization System, we’ll have to see where the dust settles.

I’m not sure I’d agree with regards to Guardians and solid positions. Retail and first year after launch yes. Since then everyone else does what we do better. Look at the golden child Ele. They bunker 10x better than any Guardian could ever hope to. I think most of us that played at launch learned a lot time ago and drifted towards other classes – hence me playing the Ranger.

I do agree that we all have to wait it out regardless of what class we play. I think Arena Net will get it right with some and miss on others. With the miss being that they didn’t consider something or the way we players find ways to abuse or misuse their original design and Nerfs will commence

I’m still waiting to see what WvW changes are coming to keep ‘that’ player base engaged and playing. To include server matching, player portals, statistics, and everything else tied to PvP. Outside looking in I see some class change and new abilities but that will keep ones attention only so long…

Softspoken.2410:

Probably because Guardians have Retreat! as a utility skill.

What, are we French now?

Have you ever witnessed a large zerg whereas several Guardians, from all sides, throw down Wall of Reflections and bounce the crap out of Rangers arrows?

For the few short seconds the ping pong effect is rather amusing to witness.

Sebrent.3625:

Well … on the bright side of things … we just got Chronomancer trait information from Jon Peters in the Mesmer subforum and I feel like those traits are >= the DH traits …

… so happy about that (I do play Mesmer too)

… and more hopeful that the Ranger Druid specialization will be >= DH

Meh – they will all be approximate and none will be better than what the other class has. At first I was irked that the Guardian got a bow, then traps. After watching it over the weekend again and taking another look it doesn’t seem that bad. In fact I’m like yeah, ok – its not the same.

Welcome to “Class Homogenization”.

I did not play GW1 so maybe this was a thing there or worked differently. However, one thing I’ve come to learn over the years is that each class ends up with the others abilities sooner or later.

Seems odd to me but whatever I guess.

Stationary may be an issue. Some formats of play do not look too kindly on stationary players

Sirendor.1394:

Traps are the most useless, most boring utility skills in the whole game… As far as I know there’s thieves and rangers who have traps right now, but I never see a trap thief (like I haven’t seen one in the last 2 years most likely), and trap rangers are useless since they just drop condis, then have to run because all their traps are on cooldown, gg.

You should probably play a trap ranger – because what you describe just doesn’t happen. I won’t comment on the boring part because that is a play style thing. However, to say trap rangers are useless is one or two things. Personal opinion, which is fine. Or ignorance from not having played one.

It does, of course, depend on the meta of play and I’m only speaking from a WvW point of view. Not everyone runs power / berserker builds and rapid fire pew pew. Some actually run traps, double melee, sb/lb, lb/melee with trap runes and they are, honestly, excellent choices depending on what you are playing.

But even this is an opinion after playing one for the last couple of months. And yes, I also play a Guardian