Guild Wars 2

DarkSyze – come on man, read my post, watch the video, and talk to me. I mean, free 5 gold.

Puck.9612:

I love how the ranger at the end sat on you to show off his mad 4v1 skills, definitely a pro player right there.

You know what Puck, I thought exactly the same thing.

It is hit or miss when I party up with players out on the field to say they did a good job or it was fun, regardless if I lose or win. That is actually what I did to the OP here just the other night. Then you see these guys who sit or drop siege like they did something wonderful.

The joke is actually on them though because it took them a while to take him out when he could have disengaged at anytime and moved along. I’m not even going to go into he was at a disadvantage from the get two by 2.5 (two 80’s, and a uptick) They should have maned up and either went about his way or partied and said good job.

I guess people struggle when people are just better or have luck on their side.

Leowan.4389:

Great video,

I was also wondering about the ferocity / 200% crit damage, and figure that’s purely for the Int Sigil on your greatsword, 100% crit on next 3 attacks would make sense.

Were you running a different gear mix in the first part of the video compared to the 2nd? It looked like 23,299 HP in the first part and around 20,854 HP in the second part? I would imagine with the part1 stats you may do better fighting against a condition type build.

Anyway, really good play video and gameplay by you.

Regarding health – could be guard stack buff from WvW rank/points. I know that is what I placed mine in first but didn’t pay attention to his food/buffs.

Ok, watching now since I believe I actually spoke to you the other night after a scuffle in EBG.

Good map awareness. Avoided several Rapid Fire barrages. Not afraid to reset fight and re-engage when out numbered. You are also an above average player After actually running into you in EBG and seeing how you can get away I’d say you could play in your skivvies and do perfectly fine.

I was going to say something about uptick/scale players but you know, they are there and if left unattended can still do harm. Heck, if I run into a group they are my first target also. Oddly enough that upscale Guardian seem to hold his own. I was expecting him to go down quick but for whatever reason he didn’t.

Good video though and thanks for sharing.

DarkSyze – check out the thread in this forum entitled: “DMD – w/ Video Uncut 1v1s, 1v2s, and 1v3s”. You can watch the whole thing if you want, but I am going to ask you to fast forward to the 8:30 marker. Start there and let it roll.

Watch that then please come back here and let me know what you see. I’ll gladly pass you 5 gold once you are done.

Also check out 11:13 time marker.

Peace!

Puck.9612:

Crapgame.6519:

All is lost in this thread and I have no idea why we continued to feed the OP.

It’s like a car accident on the side of the road, you complain how everyone is causing a traffic jam by rubbernecking, but when you get close enough to see you can’t help but slow down and have a look.

That is so very true

Sube Dai.8496:

I would say people are tending to build more offensively for roaming builds compared to then.

Yeah. Skill and comfort level dictate how offensive one can go. Of course solo, duo, small group or zerg also factor in – so glad retraiting fees are done.

I’ll even factor in server match up with the wall clock coverage vs. when I play and their tendency to zerg. Sometimes I need more defense for the 4th meta of hide n seek so trapper runes come in handy whereas others I need the speed so go full zerker to flip camps more quickly.

All is lost in this thread and I have no idea why we continued to feed the OP.

What I am struggling with DarkSyze is that you get a pass for not understanding how a Ranger works. Because you play a Guardian. To call you ignorant isn’t a frontal attack on you, the player, but of the lack of understanding. I wanted to clear the air around me calling you a little bit ignorant. I’m ignorant of necromancer, mesmer, thief, engineers, and elemental classes. I consider it bliss though.

There is no “healing” meta in the game. Nor is there any tanking. You have traits, gear, accessories, and food to balance out your choices. I suggested you look at the Healaway build which even by the original creator is a bit out dated but still somewhat solid build. It is one that is support oriented yet allows you to roam and be productive in general. Oddly enough, the changes have happened over the course of launch and there are more favorable builds that offer support if you choose that are not so 2012.

Rangers 1500 range isn’t easy mode. It is to someone that isn’t paying attention. I will agree with you 100% in that if I, player whom is afk or not paying attention to the fight around me, would get hurt by any class hitting me from 1500 range. I would also get wrecked if I was still AFK or watching the environment pass me by by an oppertunistic thief who decided to put a dagger in my back. Or Guardian who instead of placing a band aid on my open would spooled up focus 5, stutter stepped, then JI’d on me, hit smit condition, then swap to GS and unloaded holy hell on my. Poof.

Challenge is what you make of the game. You choose to go DPS then there is a price to pay called lack of defense. There is no such thing as a 6/6/6/6/6 build. We have to choose, much like you, the guardian. You also can go DPS but it will cost you. You can go DPS with comfort and support, if you choose.

If you don’t see a challenge in the Ranger then transfer servers that may offer one. Play naked with nothing but your skivvies on. No buffs, no food, nothing. See if that ups the ante at all.

DarkSyze.8627:

Shanks.2907:

Darksyze, as my main is a meditation guardian I could give you plenty of advice on how to counter longbow rangers. If you would post your build (using gw2skills.net) I could give you some pointers. In fact, your best bet would of been to go to the guardian forums and open up a topic asking for advice on how to deal with longbow rangers, instead of requesting nerfs that will never happen.

The range is very easily negated through a Judge’s Intervention and Flashing Blade (sword teleport) or Leap of Faith (greatsword leap). Also, Flashing Blade/Leap of Faith blinds the target so there’s a chance the ranger will try to use Poing Blank Shot or Hunter’s Shot and miss.

If you can’t beat a longbow ranger after closing the gap either the issue lies with the build you’re using or simply the skill you have. In either case, I really doubt that 200 less range would help you in any way win the fight. Ask for advice, listen to the advice and apply it to your skill set. Asking for nerfs of a profession that beat you will in no way make you a better player.

This is the build i use: a heal build because that is what Guardian class is

http://www.gw2db.com/skill-builds/575-heal-guard

I do not have very high gear+accessories but i am almost there like: ascended.

I would like to try your meditation build and your advice

Well, that explains a lot…

Fault 1, the Guardian class is what you make of it. Since there is no primary healing meta in the game, nor tanking, you get to mix and match for your comfort.

Fault 2, The URL/Build you posted, it is dated 2012. Game has changed as did the supporting Guardian builds.

I’d seriously recommend going back to the Guardian form and spend more time there asking for help rather than telling this forum how OP they are. Heck, search for the healaway build, it is a good place to start. Most build off of that.

DeceiverX.8361:

Crapgame.6519:

DeceiverX.8361:

Fire/Air procs, however, are not, and that’s what people seem to fail to recognize is a huge source of damage from this build and many others offering burst damage.

This is also true for any sigil – you get to customize it so it is a equal playing field. Torment, corruption, etc. They all play a roll so it is up to us, the player, to choose. I run Fire and Air. But I also run incapacitation and a few others just to keep it fun. It doesn’t make it anyway OP than say a scepter wielding Mesmer with their torment sigil.

What’s problematic, though, is that an additional 3-4.3k damage is statistically guaranteed to happen from fire/air procs from the hits that do indeed land. This leaves one skill doing bare minimum around 8k damage after a double dodge negating most of the damage from this skill alone.

Fun with math. The funny thing is though that people can rearrange the numbers and math to paint there statistics in their favor. What doesn’t change is that we all have the same base endurance to tuck and roll

It seems a lot of people seem to neglect to consider just how broken these sigils are and why burst is artificially high on so many builds which shouldn’t have that kind of damage.

Not really broken since they have been around for a while now. Sigils, much like runes, are hard choices. We can’t have it all as much as the various OP thread starts try and paint it. To be a power berserker Ranger you give up a lot of defensive abilities. The Ranger forum has tried to play and provide countless ways to avoid both the range and rapid fire ability to no avail.

Every class in the game in 2 of the 3 metas of play, sPvP and WvW, players have to choose their setup until “THEY” find their comfort level. Remember, GW2 is built for comfort, not speed.

Thing is, it has little to do with rangers. Fire/Air procs are pretty much equally broken on all classes. It only is emphasized on rangers because it’s extremely likely to happen even if a double dodge is used – moreso than other classes because of RF’s multi-hit speed.

Not all classes can dodge the same, sorry. That’s just blatantly not true. Some classes have access to vigor, some permanently, some not at all.

Berserker longbow ranger is easy for what it offers and hard to master. Pressing 2 and dealing a massive sum of damage is not hard. I measure ranger skill mostly by position use and how well a ranger can fight without range. I’ll say it straight in that most of them suck.

I main a ranger and a thief, and can tell you as a fact the rune/sigil choice is not hard. Fire/Air or you’re doing it wrong. It mathematically offers the highest DPS and burst damage increase, and the utility options are not worth it based around other class features and pet utility. Even the best theorycrafters in the game like Nike openly admit these sigils are too much and offer too much damage with no counterplay options/reasonable alternatives. I refuse to use fire/air on my characters – even my crit strikes signet burst thief – on the sheer basis that I do not like to contribute to broken power-ups.

And don’t try to preach sacrificing defenses please. I go to my glass cannon ranger after playing my full valkyrie thief when I need something durable.

1 – all classes equally have the same endurance bar to start. What you do from there is up to you. Maybe you like to add on swap sigils, maybe not.

2 – there is no sacrifice defense argument. It is just a fact of life when playing glass of any class. Hence my comment about all classes having to choose. When I go glass/zerk on my guardian I know I’m going to have low health and lack of defenses because I chose to play more aggressively.

Also don’t confuse player skill with defense/durability nor assume others can play at that level. I also main a guardian and to your point about durability and mine regarding skill. I am able to play more lazily on the guardian because its built in defense – it is more forgiving. But when I run on my zerk/power ranger I actually live longer and win fights I shouldn’t because it is less forgiving and it actually makes me play smarter or be more alert. This is where player skill comes into play and my comment about comfort.

Some people are just better players than others and there shouldn’t be a issue with that nor does it mean something is easy or OP.

Aidan.7120:

Puck.9612:

That’s a terrible example. If you are already fighting and get blindsided by any zerk player the results will be the same. Having to press 1 or 2 extra buttons isn’t as big of a challenge as people try to make it out to be.

yeah, okay, u misunderstood.
LB rangers are too braindead, that’s what i meant.
it’s not a matter of opness, it’s a matter of balancing.
If i stay far away and just press 521111521115211 there’s something wrong.

I know that u need GS too and whatever but there will be many situations where you’ll just sit on a rock and shoot arrows.
If there’s a TF mid, at temple, you’ll probably do that.

The class is just not used in competitive since a single grd wall would destroy all those noob LB rangers who just spam skills, killing themselves, but in a pug, this won’t happens everytime, and 2 LB rangers, with a bunker holding a point, will destroy lighter classes without so much effort.

I repeat, i used to play my ranger a lot, it was my second character, and i’ve played it since beta, but nowdays ranger is just a braindead skill spammer, like thief was. Do you need personal skill to achieve better results? ofc! but if a noob tries to use an ele, he will be wrecked apart, if i give him a ranger he could still do a lot, and that shouldn’t happen.

The class should be nerfed in some ways and buffed in some other.
I don’t know, maybe buff his damage but slow every skill, make stealth last longer, or maybe make it usable without a target, but shrink the AoE.
There would be so many cool things to make this class (and expecially this build) awesome, but i know we have to wait soooo long to get them

ps: same with SB rangers, too much bleeding with just autoattack, it’s boriiiiiiiing

Maybe GW2 isn’t for you then because all classes have similar nuts and bolts.

I mean, when you hot lap any of the WvW maps you are telling me you never have to port due to death and taxes? Seriously, you just are free to run around the maps flipping camps and reigning arrows down on people causing all sorts of death and destruction without any recourse at all?

To the unaware or unattended players, I agree you are pressing auto attack and rapid fire for an easy kill. That is not the primary dance though because aware or alerted players actually engage. You are no longer doing a slow waltz. It is time to go now like you are running from the coppers.

Last time, Rangers have an advantage with range. There is a fine line with traits, gear, food, and accessories in order to frontload damage. Once the gap is closed the waltz is over and the foxtrot ensues. It involves weapon swapping and all skills to survive if you went more towards dps/damange than defense which most people playing power/zerker.

Why everyone continues to think Rangers get a hall pass to do whatever they want is beyond me. Unaware, unattended, poor map awareness = respawn and a goodie bag for the victor. This is no different than if you play any of the other classes.

DeceiverX.8361:

Fire/Air procs, however, are not, and that’s what people seem to fail to recognize is a huge source of damage from this build and many others offering burst damage.

This is also true for any sigil – you get to customize it so it is a equal playing field. Torment, corruption, etc. They all play a roll so it is up to us, the player, to choose. I run Fire and Air. But I also run incapacitation and a few others just to keep it fun. It doesn’t make it anyway OP than say a scepter wielding Mesmer with their torment sigil.

What’s problematic, though, is that an additional 3-4.3k damage is statistically guaranteed to happen from fire/air procs from the hits that do indeed land. This leaves one skill doing bare minimum around 8k damage after a double dodge negating most of the damage from this skill alone.

Fun with math. The funny thing is though that people can rearrange the numbers and math to paint there statistics in their favor. What doesn’t change is that we all have the same base endurance to tuck and roll

It seems a lot of people seem to neglect to consider just how broken these sigils are and why burst is artificially high on so many builds which shouldn’t have that kind of damage.

Not really broken since they have been around for a while now. Sigils, much like runes, are hard choices. We can’t have it all as much as the various OP thread starts try and paint it. To be a power berserker Ranger you give up a lot of defensive abilities. The Ranger forum has tried to play and provide countless ways to avoid both the range and rapid fire ability to no avail.

Every class in the game in 2 of the 3 metas of play, sPvP and WvW, players have to choose their setup until “THEY” find their comfort level. Remember, GW2 is built for comfort, not speed.

Tommyg.7392:

Rapid fire is a bit OP. You basically need both evades to dodge it. 1 evade only and it will still nearly kill you.

Maybe if you are a up-scaled/leveled player on a WvW map. Otherwise there is ample time to survive it. In most cases you can eat the whole thing and still live (this coming from a DPS guardian, full berserker set with accessories, triple mediations, level 80, and exotic armor/weapons + ascended accessories). I think you would agree that a DPS Guardian has just about the lowest health pool stock, right?

If I can survive the initial onslaught of RF, you can too.

DarkSyze.8627:

Puck.9612:

DarkSyze.8627:

From Arena net evidence channel description: Guardian, Warrior, Engineer, Thief, Elementalist and Mesmer have channel skill, so why only Ranger channel is only one that track, fire and attack through stealth?

“If it is not working the way it should be, it is broken”

Thank you for once again showing how little you know about the most basic mechanics in this game. This is another shining example of why balance decisions shouldn’t be made around players at a very low skill level.

So i am low skill player and no ranger with high skill can show evidence of where in Arena net ranger class description of ranger arrow track stealth stealth and attack through stealth??

Do you want me to ask Arena net to help for evidence?

No but we do want to you stop posting nonsense.

Unless you start to listen without your pre-conceived or otherwise stated prejudices against the Ranger class. Discussions are fine but when people try to provide information yet all you do is plug your ears and cover your eyes it is a waste of bandwidth. So stop already.

Interesting. How did you many to get knocked off or feared up atop the canon in the ruins then manage to get back up there? Ruins are a good place for open world PvP. Not sure why they never took off but some of the best fights I’ve had are in there.

Thanks for sharing. Good use of height to your advantage.

Aomine.5012:

Crapgame.6519:

Aomine.5012:

Black Scoutsman.5830:

Aomine.5012:

Black Scoutsman.5830:

I find it humerous that people using a new toy that a net gave them with the recent longbow buffs all of a sudden want everyone else to l2p and adapt their playstyles to counter it when before the buffs were the same people who cried that longbow just wasn’t good enough for them instead of learning how to use it and position yourself and use your pet to position your opponent etc. You say that the skill ceiling is so low??? You asked a net to lower it. And they did. And now you want everyone else to l2p. I say lol.

Again you can check my post history I’ve been playing power longbow since shortly after release. I am not crying for nerfs. I am calling out hypocrisy.

I also find it humorous that you do not know the old rapid fire’s dps is LOWER THAN AUTO ATTACK at 1000+ range, so basically there’s 0 reason to click that slow-hitting skill that hit less than AA, and forces you to channel for 5 seconds and unable to do anything. (Old RF doesn’t even have vulnerability, and hunter shot does not grant stealth either.)

Old LB doesn’t has RtW, and the default projectile speed is even slower than the untraited LB (now if LB is untraited, it’s still slow as hell), that you can just side straf and dodge all arrow.s

The improvement is warranted because the weapon was just BROKEN back then. Now people want to break it again because they’re so used to ranger being useless, just like you. Now go L2P and get better before you ask for nerf because this magic LB doesn’t carry ranger to the meta unlike what those QQers fantasized.

I don’t understand what you are getting at? I said nothing about rapid fires damage? And I do know the old AND new rapid fires DMG is less at over 1000 range, it just comes faster now. Before you used it after your enemy used their gap closer. And I don’t want longbow to be useless??? I would like it to require a little bit of skill. I do t see why so many people are opposed to that.

You do not know how dps works at all…

I can say I do 200k damage, but it takes 60 secs for all the 200k damage to get by, that is NOT a high damage. But if I do that 200k damage in 1 second, then the damage is insanely high, and I have 59 additional seconds to dish out more damage.

The current dps of RF is higher than Auto for sure. The old LS takes 5 seconds to finish, so you not only dish out less damage over 5 seconds, you wasted your potential 2.5 second on the channeling, while the new version of RS finishes in 2.5 seconds, so you not only finish the RF in 2.5 seconds, but also you have 2.5 additional seconds to do other stuffs such as more AA.

Learn to react.
Learn to doge.

Rapid Fire – Dodge = 0 DPS

I was just correcting his false knowledge of how dps works. Nothing personal, and nothing related to RF’s damage.

Oh, I’m sorry then. I misread or just hit reply too soon.

Nike.2631:

Its a comfort to know that the Skill Balance team generally doesn’t even look at these boards until they see a problem visible in the metrics.

Buff or nerf, it doesn’t start in here.

Very true.

I recall a few weeks back playing a non rated PvP match. Arena Net dev was on their Mesmer. Ironically never once in that game did the developer say anything bad about my ranger when I finished them off fighting on a node. Nor did I ever say how OP the Mesmer was when they finished me off.

Aomine.5012:

Black Scoutsman.5830:

Aomine.5012:

Black Scoutsman.5830:

I find it humerous that people using a new toy that a net gave them with the recent longbow buffs all of a sudden want everyone else to l2p and adapt their playstyles to counter it when before the buffs were the same people who cried that longbow just wasn’t good enough for them instead of learning how to use it and position yourself and use your pet to position your opponent etc. You say that the skill ceiling is so low??? You asked a net to lower it. And they did. And now you want everyone else to l2p. I say lol.

Again you can check my post history I’ve been playing power longbow since shortly after release. I am not crying for nerfs. I am calling out hypocrisy.

I also find it humorous that you do not know the old rapid fire’s dps is LOWER THAN AUTO ATTACK at 1000+ range, so basically there’s 0 reason to click that slow-hitting skill that hit less than AA, and forces you to channel for 5 seconds and unable to do anything. (Old RF doesn’t even have vulnerability, and hunter shot does not grant stealth either.)

Old LB doesn’t has RtW, and the default projectile speed is even slower than the untraited LB (now if LB is untraited, it’s still slow as hell), that you can just side straf and dodge all arrow.s

The improvement is warranted because the weapon was just BROKEN back then. Now people want to break it again because they’re so used to ranger being useless, just like you. Now go L2P and get better before you ask for nerf because this magic LB doesn’t carry ranger to the meta unlike what those QQers fantasized.

I don’t understand what you are getting at? I said nothing about rapid fires damage? And I do know the old AND new rapid fires DMG is less at over 1000 range, it just comes faster now. Before you used it after your enemy used their gap closer. And I don’t want longbow to be useless??? I would like it to require a little bit of skill. I do t see why so many people are opposed to that.

You do not know how dps works at all…

I can say I do 200k damage, but it takes 60 secs for all the 200k damage to get by, that is NOT a high damage. But if I do that 200k damage in 1 second, then the damage is insanely high, and I have 59 additional seconds to dish out more damage.

The current dps of RF is higher than Auto for sure. The old LS takes 5 seconds to finish, so you not only dish out less damage over 5 seconds, you wasted your potential 2.5 second on the channeling, while the new version of RS finishes in 2.5 seconds, so you not only finish the RF in 2.5 seconds, but also you have 2.5 additional seconds to do other stuffs such as more AA.

Learn to react.
Learn to doge.

Rapid Fire – Dodge = 0 DPS

Sube Dai.8496:

There is a low skill floor for killing people, but actually helping your team win is very difficult.

There is a low skill floor for killing up leveled, unskilled, unaware, or otherwise occupied, people. This will apply to any and all classes in GW2, not just the ranger.

I think we may be running out of horses…last couple of days we beat several to death. P.E.T.A I’m sure will visit these forums shortly.

It really is a learn to play issue. The change(s) to long bow have not dumbed down the class or made it any stronger. There is risk, there is reward. If people on the other side of the fence cannot see it then there isn’t much more we can do.

Last time:
1. Dodge – you have two with default endurance bar…
2. Use the land, trees, NPC’s, friends,
3. Reflect
4. Retaliation
5. Bring a friend
6. Situational awareness – don’t be that Zebra
7. Supply caravan / dead yaks – yes, they block LB
8. Apply pressure
9. Close the gap
10. Ask Siri

Seriously, 9 out of the 10 are all serious and viable options to counter your long bow friend. Beyond that and you fail at any of those 9, they thank you very much for the fish and loot bag. Chances are high that the ambient creature would have downed you also.

Seem to be more or less working for me throughout this weekend. Then again, maybe I’m not fully paying attention but when I run them I don’t recall them not working I guess.

I usually swap between two builds and right now back on the trap set. I do know sometimes it appears like it isn’t working but that is usually when I’m flipping a camp and have all the guards bundled together. One of them will toss their dealies that trip me up or hits me and I don’t get it.

I made a mental note and will see how it goes the rest of the day (will try and pay more attention – lol ).

Or maybe those that are crying foul don’t own a iPhone? I mean, if they did they could just press the button and ask Siri.

“Siri, how do I beat a long bow ranger in GW2”

/sigh

So….DarkSyze. You main a guardian and you are complaining about a Ranger? Seriously?

You are in all honesty posting in this thread saying that playing a LB ranger, with traits for the extra range, is not fun or a challenge. Is that the short of it more or less?

Yet on your guardian you have a higher chance of insta gibbing someone running a similar setup all things being equal. In other words both Ranger and Guardian can trait for full dps, load up berserker armor and accessories, sigils and runes, and finally some food and pretty much do exactly the same thing. To include having the Guardian use range.

I don’t know about you but selecting a target or assisting a target while in dance, spooling up focus 5 to prep, and then using J I to hit target is just as easy as selecting target or assisting. The only difference is that said Ranger can use the range or surrounding area to his or her advantage. But once that closes the game is over. Much like that of the DPS minded mediation Guardian.

So what if the Guardian uses more number slots to do the initial burst. Start of the fight is pretty much the same as is the rotation. Actually may be less on the Guardian because that initial burst can be pretty daunting once added up.

My personal opinion is that you lost this debate and you are trolling once no one jumped on your bandwagon. There is plenty of risk vs. reward for the Rangers whom use the long bow. There is also plenty of ways to counter it albeit solo, small party, or zerg. I’m out of this silly argument and posted enough.

Good luck with your crusade against the Long Bow.

I don’t run much melee on the Ranger unless I absolutely have to, I mean last resort, but not because I don’t like it much but because I play it like a Guardian (my main).

However, this

And Sword against constructs or near cliffs are just a bad

is all to true. I mostly play in WvW and I can’t say how many times I’ve fallen to my death or locked down by a wall / rock

DroidDreamer.2861:

If you want to run Shield for fun, then go for it! I think there’s way too much emphasis on required builds and configurations. But then I don’t play “meta” or “FOTM” builds in any game.

I’m having a blast with Shield! I think if they added the Resistance Boon plus a blast finisher, it would be in a great shape.

This is actually a pretty true statement in that if you want to run it for fun, do so. However, most would disagree on the too much emphasis bit. Reason why is the dance around traits or things that happen after a block occurs.

At the end of the day focus and mace just block 10x better. My personal opinion is that they need to remove the focus and move its abilities to shield.

It has been tried but still falls short. It isn’t that the trait doesn’t sound entertaining as it is but it is broke and doesn’t do jack in WvW meta. At least when I tried it anyway.

Ok, thanks. I hate to admit this also but I’m pretty sure I don’t have my pet key bound I use the UI. Don’t judge me

How do you swap pets in a downed state? I hate to admit it, but I honestly have no clue.

Thanks for the clarification. I guess I never went into it that deep. Isn’t ignorance bliss?

:D

Any class that runs glass has risk. Ele, engi, guard, or others. We can’t have it all regardless of how it is being presented by threads like these. I main a guard and guess what, if I run zerk triple med DPS in WvW I am going to get wrecked more often than not facing more than a single player. It isn’t a game design issue, but one of choice by me, the player when I want to go full on, balls out, dps. Mitigation and defense goes out the window by my own accord. Therein lies your risk vs. reward. Some people make it look easier than others but it doesn’t mean that class needs to be adjusted down because they play better.

This applies to the Ranger with their LB and range. Again, traits. Again, can’t have it all. Again, has to play smart. Again, so many counters to LB it isn’t funny.

If you choose to leave the ranger unattended, when they have the advantage, is it really a problem? That is like removing stealth from a thief.

I say this only because just last night someone raged a bit when skirmishing in EBG. One server zerg passing between Golanta and Klov, ours engages. You know the cliff between the tower, right? What is the ranger supposed to do in this scenario? Join the melee train or play smart, run around and up the cliff, and rain fire down upon people…

Right, I chose to join the melee train for the fun, risk vs. reward factor and I didn’t want to be too OP. No silly, I turned and burned it up that cliff so fast I would have made Roger Rabbit proud. Fellow ranger joined in the rush, then another, one set target, we assisted, and PEW PEW PEW happened. Guess what, we slaughtered many. No more than our melee friends down below I’m sure but at the end of the day it was like fishing for trout out of a barrel.

Target, assist, and shoot. Here is the kicker. Do you think we just randomly selected targets below? No. To make it more fun we actually selected the necros, rangers, and thieves sneaking around trying to take out our weaker targets. It was just a perfect storm and doesn’t always end up like this. But those that we took out I’m sure said a few choice words because of the advantage we had.

Win some, lose some. But this is really a silly thread. Bottom line is to have range and dps thy ranger has to yield some defenses. Just like everyone else. That is what we call balance. You don’t have to agree, you can be mad, we can remain friends, but that is how it is. You and your class has your perks, we have ours.

Lenor.8197:

So, where to start.
Rapid Fire. I’d play this class if it was named Rapid Fire and it’s only skill would have been Rapid Fire. Single most satisfying button to press in the game. Well, maybe Lich auto comes close.
Afforementioned Thief house busting using angry wolves, torches and Barrage.
Sword. Nothing else makes you feel like a grasshopper on steroids. And it can actually kill people.
Ranger s/t a/d condi builds are generally fun as hell and strong to use and don’t suffer from the stigma of LB ranger.
Tears. Oh, the sweet tears. I don’t think any other class allows me to feast on so much QQ, especially when someone dies from 2k range because rapid fire is hard to dodge.
Did i mention Rapid Fire being amazing already?

Here, here. Rapid Fire is amazing

So here is a toast to our health…“Sláinte”

Why would short bow be better for crit? Just wondering.

If you craft, also give Incapacitation a try. Although someone did point out to me that we have enough tools to keep people from moving, I like it a lot and actually use it on my LB

Torment is probably a solid choice. Blight, never thought of that one.

Tragic, thanks. Makes sense.

Just goes to show that I use it somewhat incorrectly In fact, I just started to use LB 3 a bit more tactfully now also. I guess when you learn something new each day, even in a virtual world, it is a good thing.

Can I just say I 100%, absolutely, love the range with the LB and Rapid Fire changes? Without a doubt almost as fun when I played my Runemaster in DaOC I’d love to see the people raging now about how much range the LB has compared to those fella’s. Alligator tears I’m sure would fall from the heavens like God himself was dropping skittles on us all for a tasty snack!

Seriously though. During beta I ran a Ele. Loved it. For whatever reason when head start came about I selected Guardian. No idea why and still can’t figure that out. Still like the Guardian. But on a whim I rolled a alt, and it was a Ranger…

So for the appreciation it goes out to all the valuable posts on this forum that help new rangers out. /Peace

Tragic Positive.9356:

#I want to set up the Barrage>Rapid Fire combo successfully

Going to go out on a limb here and say I’m a newb, but why this combo? Is it to proc a sigil / effect to slow?

jcbroe.4329:

Crapgame.6519:

Sadly Tragic, I’m still new to the whole ranger class that I have no idea what a spirit build is let alone how one plays it… Then again I really only stay in the WvW meta and don’t venture out.

Sebrent, I do agree. I’m just starting to wonder at the direction of the game is all but if I’m being honestly I’ve only tried the two classes. Guardian for the longest and the Ranger recently. I do have a 80 necro that I used tombs from sPvP but that is just for fun and I’m really clueless playing on that

Spirit builds have mostly stopped being run due to poor spirit survival against the output of the meta builds, and in general other classes being able to provide what the spirit build provides and more, the most common class cited to by the spirit ranger replacement being D/D celestial ele.

The build itself is honestly extremely passive and most people are happy with where it is currently at (I am very happy myself that it is no longer the go to meta build, even though I would prefer that we did have a meta staple build of some sort), aka effective but not prevalent and the range of it’s capabilities aren’t enough to push it into a dominant place in the meta, but for reference, the link does have all of the different variants and ideas behind the build: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_Spirit_Ranger

Thanks for the info. I’ll check it out.

So on the ele side, seems like they are the replacement for everyone Maybe we all should take a break or boycott and see how well they do

Sadly Tragic, I’m still new to the whole ranger class that I have no idea what a spirit build is let alone how one plays it… Then again I really only stay in the WvW meta and don’t venture out.

Sebrent, I do agree. I’m just starting to wonder at the direction of the game is all but if I’m being honestly I’ve only tried the two classes. Guardian for the longest and the Ranger recently. I do have a 80 necro that I used tombs from sPvP but that is just for fun and I’m really clueless playing on that

Tragic Positive.9356:

Guyz, but you are missing the most important point in this…
…
The reason why Rangers are not going to become a PvP meta is simple.
They need to be light years away from point (the goal objective) to be effective.
Which means the following: Not only they bring nothing but damage (neither entangle nor Muddy Terrain are used for point objectives – but solely for selfish survival purposes) – but even the damage is lower in comparison to Other Zerk classes such as Mesmers or Thieves.

I also main a Guardian – well, actually parked a bit because I’m enjoying the Ranger, but my point is that I also hear this in those forums (Guardians). And how they are not part of the PvP meta.

Maybe the issue is in the format of play….

Neural.1824:

TPMN.1483:

Oh – so I am really doing less damage and have less health.

This is making life so much harder – I’m dying a lot more now than before when mapping.
I prefered it the way it was before – I didnt die as much (still died at places when mapping though).

Arenanet is obsessed with catering to a small but vocal group of “hardcore” players who think that every single XP point should be a 3 hour grueling battle in which you risk permanently losing everything you’ve earned so far in game.

Lol. This made me giggle Thanks.

Actually, funny you should post this since you noted the 3 hour grind You know the other day when those black wings went on the TP, yeah? You still see a few people wearing them and what not. Well anyway, I actually exited the GW2 game client thinking I accidently started my Aion client instead I swear I was logged in on my Asmodian character after seeing those wings. Huge double take but then after logging back into GW2 I see what they did.

Then I connected the dots – NCSoft…and sighed. Talking about a grind

Sebrent.3625:

They have both stealth and awesome maneuverability … that’s what separates them from Mesmers (though most Thief builds have more access to stealth than Mesmers can have).

My primary beef isn’t with stealth or even Thieves, but with what prevents there being as much counterplay.

Fighting a Warrior is a good example of the use of telegraphs that enable counterplay. You see them throw that Bola. You see them coming at you with an Eviscerate. You see that Earthshaker coming at your face. Since you can see it, you can try to react to you. Despite the fact that we can see and react to these things, good Warriors still win fights and it doesn’t feel too horribly bad losing to one.

On the other hand, there are tons of high-impact skills in the game that have no telegraph whatsoever. You simply get hit by them. Attacks from stealth are what first come to people’s minds, but it doesn’t end there. Steal is the same way. Mesmer offensive Mantras are the same way as well. You don’t see any animation when I pop Mantra of Distraction on you; in fact I can hit you with it while I’m casting something else.

Thief and Mesmer aren’t the only ones, but we’ll stop there for brevity.

The issue with when you can’t see a skill is that the counterplay breaks down to “guess when it will be used”. This can be fine except that when a class combines multiple skills together where the answer to it is to “guess”, the counterplay can break down.

In a 1v1, it isn’t as bad given that with enough experience you learn to anticipate those abilities and it becomes a bit of a game of chicken with your dodges/cooldowns and their uses of those abilities. However, as fights scale up, you now have to keep track of multiple opponents and still somehow guess when these zero-telegraph abilities will be used. I’m sure everyone can remember a time when they were fighting someone and then suddenly were downed by a backstab or steal or constantly locked out of their abilities by Mantra of Distraction from a Mesmer that joined the fight.

It isn’t like when you’re fighting and an opposing Warrior joins the fight. You see that Warrior and you see the ability. You have a chance to react to it … not guess when it will happen.

Some will say “you just have to anticipate”. First, this is just a nicer way of saying “you have to guess”. Second, a Thief can stealth for long periods of time. I don’t have enough dodge rolls and cooldowns for that; especially when I also don’t want to get hit by their Steal or the next time they Stealth and try to backstab me. Additionally, good luck guessing when I will use Mantra of Distraction on you with my Mesmer. If I get you low enough to force you to heal, you are in trouble if you can’t LOS me because you’re either going to (1) Get dazed/interrupted (2) Dodge it thereby interrupting your heal … for (2) you might just dodge nothing and I laugh to myself.

tl;dr Enabling true counterplay is a good thing for PvP. Most, if not all, things that detract from counterplay are bad for PvP.

Give a cue that Mantra of Distraction is going to be cast or between cast and when it would hit. Give a cue that a backstab is about to rip your backside. Give players something to see and/or hear so they can react. The pros will react quickly and do very well. The rest will react slightly slower and get outcomes that reflect that.

All good points but not sure what can be done about it with the current state of the game. It is, to some degree, class separation. Without it we might as well all be stick figures with the same attacks

In all seriousness though, it is why dodge is a key mechanic of the game and with some tough decisions you can extend the endurance bar a wee bit.

Sebrent.3625:

I still primarily play Ranger and Mesmer .

Thieves beat out both Ranger and Mesmer largely for this one reason … when a 1v1 becomes a 1v2 to the Thieves disadvantage, the Thief can more easily disengage from the fight than a Ranger/Mesmer.

Thieves are more mobile and not dependent on long cooldowns (e.g. Portal) for their mobility.

Additionally, you bring one of these classes to +1 a fight. With superior mobility, a Thief can more quickly +1. It is common knowledge that Thieves dominate the Berserker meta. Check the “pro” Mesmer guides and you’ll see their advice vs Thieves is to avoid them … which is a liability for your team; particularly with the abundance of good Thieves at high levels of play.

I find Ranger can give Thief a run for their money, but if the Thief is losing, he can often disengage while the Ranger can’t (back to mobility).

The primary thing I think the Ranger brings that the Thief can’t is the long range. A Ranger exerts a much larger threat range than a Thief and doesn’t have to commit in order to put pressure on a target. Unfortunately, it is a double-edged sword. A Ranger using their Range is often not [de-]capping a point as that compromises the advantage they gain from their bow.

Mesmer is a little worse as they have to mobility, stealth, etc. that make it harder to contest a point.

This has pretty much been the main complaint regarding stealth in this game. The thief can reset fights at well.

Puck.9612:

DarkSyze.8627:

When trait: Rapid Fire is 8 second: huge difference of “Enormous Spike Damage” than 10 seconds. Example: if it take 10 seconds to kill a thief, ranger can easily kill thief under 8 seconds with trait adjustment.

I do not know why did not include that in his articlet: it make me feel he is not honest.

It is the same person who wrote this article:

http://www.tentonhammer.com/editorial/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmers-cause-meta

Because he isn’t talking about the terrible players you find in hot join?

Good players know how to counter the rapid fire and close the gap on the ranger. If they are running a condi build they can wreck the ranger if he is running the 6,6,0,2 build. It’s better to run something like the SotF build that gives you the tools you need to fight back.

Maybe you should go tell that to DarkSyze.8627. If you haven’t go read:

Ranger range 1500 need risk, Sugg: 1300 range

;) He will disagree with you /boggle

Thanks for the post Serbrent. I’ve not used the wiki for armor sets before so that was some pretty good info. I’ve never taken the time really, sad I guess.

The Sinister set is interesting. When I’m roaming out in WvW to flip stuff or just be a pain in the rear I will run my full LB/Zerk set. Roaming and flipping stuff and playing smarter I’ll fall back to my Rabid and trapper rune build.

One thing I like using on my LB is the superior sigil of incapacitation which needs the crit to proc reliably. Based on what you noted below with sinister stats maybe I’m going about it wrong. Of course I’d have to find the right comfort level based on the glassy comment. I already feel on the edge playing in my zerker gear but maybe the traps would help with comfort…something to think about I guess.

Probably why I haven’t crafted any ascended stuff yet. Can’t seem to find a single armor set that mixes well with my ignorance

Sinister: Condition Damage, Power, Precision
•This will be glassy, but you’ll have the most direct damage of any of the other options as well since you have both power and crit chance. The crits will help proc on-crit effects.

Everything has been ignored. Guardian can auto attack with staff in zerg play just supporting the commander and/or group. It is so bad at times that loot bags fall out of the sky like skittles. And I’m pretty sure a lot of people like those rainbow colored candies with the potential loot inside

Every class has some form of risk vs. reward and that is one thing Arena Net did a reasonable job at. Guardian for example usually cannot go full DPS and have the survivability nor the other way around. All classes usually pick and pull traits with gear then tune with sigils, food, runes, and accessories.

Along those lines until said player finds the comfort level or balance they are happy with. Some classes may appear to have an easier time whereas others do not (grass is always greener mentality or flavor of the month) but at the end of the day most classes are balanced ok.

Lastly – give credit where it is due. In some cases the player that just forced you to port may have actually just out played you. No harm in that. It is a game and we can’t all be running around insta gibbing one another with no virtual fatality…

Another stellar patch…

WvW is broke. They can’t fix it.

Orbs, JP’s, siege, raging, map complete, remove, change, guild vs guild, more rage, more complaints, more changes now obsidian sanctum is duel area. List goes on and on.

Sad when a game dating back to 2001 played 10x better at the same format of play they obviously tried to copy but fell. Partly due to 3 meta’s of play in which case there hasn’t been a designer or publisher that was able to successfully balance them. Why they don’t understand this is beyond me.

Regardless, we play for fun then when a patch drops that is totally broke and all of this should have been caught does give us some small right to complain. I mean, seriously. Just be honest for a minute and say – I’m QA or a dev, I install the game on an internal server…and you couldn’t find any of the bugs we are all facing now?

/rolls eyes.

Didn’t get to watch it yet so wont comment on the actual video but will once I get home Just wanted to say that trapper runes with LB is a pretty good mix. I use it all the time with axe and torch off hand.

Believe it or not I run superior sigil of incapacitation. I’ll agree in most cases fights are a bit of hide and seek, range, and melee. It really is a kiting game more or less because when you go trapper you are sort of limited if you are running 3 traps and while you gain speed, it is a sort on / off demand. Not consistent (although I’ve been chased across the map several times by very determined people)…

Rezzet.3614:

b y your logic all ranged weapons should have 1900 range then

Please enlighten me whereas I said all range weapons should have a 1900 range?

and theres your mistake assuming all rangers are gonna be complete idiots
when you play against uncoordinated idiots you will win no matter what profession they are if you got a coordinated zerg not much genius needed there.

Not sure what you are saying. Whom did I say or assume was an idiot? I stated, as others, that Rangers make choices to have that range and damage. It is similar across all meta’s of play. Same when the Guardian chooses to DPS or any other class.

im not saying ranger is the best class but you guys are defending its exploited mechanic religiously not everyone carries reflect and again not all rangers are idiots plus #5 is a DoT AoE so reflect wont do anything to stop the crippling pulses and damage

Please clarify the exploit. If you don’t have a ranger, roll one. Tell me what the base range is with the long bow. Then trait and tell me what it is. If you have a ranger then you know you can’t have one without the other. But herein is where we disagree as do others with you.

1. Game isn’t focused on 1 v 1
2. No, not everyone has reflect. You do have dodge.

Use the land to your advantage. Ambient creatures. Trees. NPCs. For Pete’s sake, use a dead supply carven / Yak (true story, had a warrior dancing around one which actually blocked my RF). Dodge. Close the gap.

If you are typing this and honestly feel hopeless vs. a ranger then maybe you have a different issue. I would hate to think what you feel when I’m on my ranger, with trapper runes, and my long bow. I’m guessing my stealth might totally overwhelm you