Guild Wars 2

PvP/WvW retaliation was neutered patches ago. Now in PVP and WvW retaliation damage is reduced by 33%

Search for Amins video’s on this forum. While doesn’t play has much he has several builds which he has lists with videos.

Take away from this thread though is that triple med glass Guardian is high risk. Know when to engage. Know when to run and re-engage. Most exciting play style because it is on the edge. More so when not cheating and using the extra vitality from traits. Let the WvW ranks give you that…

Tarsius.3170:

Crapgame.6519:

Reborn.2934:

banishing uplevel characters in eotm proves nothing …..

Or proves that you don’t know how to have fun? /boggle

Thanks for sharing the video. Sometimes a Guardian just wants to have some fun Someone should make a clip reel of some of these. Not sure who it was a few months back be they had probably one of the, if not, best pulls in EoTM. Out near the oil and air strike NPC they did a GS 5 and moved behind the pillar, jump to the ledge, and pulled them to their death. Still don’t know how they managed that feat but it was one of the best so far.

Anyway – thanks. Always brings a giggle to me when I see a good banish or shield 5 push

Check the second link my friend ;-)

There’s also this dude

( I love the mid-air banish at 2:15 )

That was it. Thanks. Still one of the best I’d argue.

Reborn.2934:

banishing uplevel characters in eotm proves nothing …..

Or proves that you don’t know how to have fun? /boggle

Thanks for sharing the video. Sometimes a Guardian just wants to have some fun Someone should make a clip reel of some of these. Not sure who it was a few months back be they had probably one of the, if not, best pulls in EoTM. Out near the oil and air strike NPC they did a GS 5 and moved behind the pillar, jump to the ledge, and pulled them to their death. Still don’t know how they managed that feat but it was one of the best so far.

Anyway – thanks. Always brings a giggle to me when I see a good banish or shield 5 push

Dual.8953:

I really don’t get this fixation people have with boxed expansions. Expansions, Living Story Updates and standard DLC are all the exact same thing on a fundamental level, data that is added onto a game to expand the player’s experience. As it is all just data, how it is distributed has no baring on the content itself and in this day and age, digital distribution has rendered physical media all but obsolete. I can see it everywhere; Nintendo and Sony placing emphasis on their online shops (at least in their handheld consoles), the popularity of services like Steam, companies like Gamestop looking into new specializations, Blockbuster all but closing down. Digital Distribution has won.

Back on topic, people seem to have this dillusion that the Living Story is incapable of providing new classes, races, modes, maps and anything else associated with a traditional expansion. I say, if their both data, then that’s simply not the case. It seem illogical to assume otherwise. I see free2play games doing it all the time, so there’s absolutely no reason that Guild Wars 2 can’t with their Living Story.

It can. It just hasn’t happened and we are what, few ticks shy of 2 years?

Again, 3 different play types 2 of which are in many cases broke (S/T PvP and WvW). Since broke is subjective let us just agree on stale? That seems a bit more accurate although putting beer goggles on yet still waking up with a gorilla doesn’t make it any less forgiving…

Things take time. Time isn’t something many people understand today especially the 20’something crowd. You know, those that have to have it now? We have all seen him or her just starry eyed looking at their latest gadget or smart phone and saying I’ll just do a search and BAM! There is the answer (right or wrong mind you) but they have something that they believe is the answer.

Never played GW1. Don’t intend to. Was caught up in DaOC then other MMO’s. Not sure the subscription model works long tern yet Blizzard still has over 7 million strong paying monthly fees and Blizconn is pretty popular. So who are we to judge? I sure in the heck am not. Holding that many subscribers for any length of time hats off to them. What do you say?

GW2 has three different meta’s of play and they are all in different states. Which is more popular is beyond me. I don’t have the stats in front of me let alone access to their databases to answer it. That is pretty much the only way “ANY” of us could answer these sort of posts or threads. We just don’t now but we all have opinions on the matter. Heck, I know I do. I only play WvW and in my opinion it is broke. Seasonal challenges are worthless just has the rewards are. The season can start and we already know who is going to be in what league and their result the first 5 minutes? Why is that? Because the server with the most number of players AND 24 hour coverage wins. Defending yields no rewards, flipping camps and towers does. Zergs rule the day and there is no incentive for a party of 5 outside the challenge we face. Heck, it is 2014 can we please have a meaningful portal with player statistics like the Camelot Herald????

Here is my $0.02 on the new latest shiny we call Wildstar. Picture if you will the Jetson’s cartoon then add in World of Warcraft with a pinch of Mars Attacks and that pretty much sums up the artwork and sound of Wildstar. Feel free to use that at will, I didn’t copyright it But yes, that is what it what it feels and looks like after playing it this past weekend. It pretty much borrowed 80% of Warcraft’s foundation surrounding dungeons, raids, arena’s, battle grounds, reputations, and of course gear progression. It then picked off a few of the GW2 concepts such has jump puzzles and dodging but stopped there more or less. Two factions and gear score. Subscription.

Is it fun? Sure, for a bit. Maybe longer. But if raiding isn’t your thing nor are rated arena’s or battle rounds or if you only like RvR or WvW then it really isn’t going to be your cup of tea. Why? The progression will kill casual or light players. Something GW2 has today going for it. We can, and in some cases do, take a break and when we come back our characters are still relavent.

Grass isn’t always greener but one thing is for sure. New games that garner attention like Wildstar or Blizzcon or new expansion packs for games is good. It brings attention to GW2 current stagnation. It is Arena Nets to loose.

Siroso.2769:

Jugglemonkey.8741:

I knew enough not to attack when he had the shield up, but that really only leaves you the option of kiting and trying to heal.

Just to clarify, if possible you absolutely do want to attack him while the shield is up. If you hit it three times, it disappears and does no damage… It’s only if you leave it alone that it explodes. You may be thinking of mace 3, which has a different animation and only triggers a strike if hit. If you spend most of the fight on shortbow you will have a far better time, with poison field, and plenty of evades… Judges intervention has a decent cd and you can kite reasonably well after that is gone.

Both work actually. The shield effect of focus 5 is a set-up and it has a time limit.

So you can turn and burn so it fades on its own or you can do some basic attacks and fade it that way. Both work. Personally, I turn and burn so its on cool down then engage. Just how it works for me but your mileage may vary.

Focus 5 isn’t burst in of itself, but it is part of the overall “first strike” package. It is one of those deals like said, pre-fight set-up, you see it cast so you know what is coming next. So react, dodge, CC, etc and there goes “part” of the burst

Also has already stated, if you, has the triple med Zerk/class Guardian, don’t put the enemy down within the first few seconds, chances are high you will die due to lack of:

A. Fight reset
B. Sustain
C. Cool down / ability management

Just about every other class can dis-engage and reset the fight. A zerk Guardian has a bit more difficulty but it isn’t impossible. Traveler runes, GS 3, JI, etc. Some ways to move about.

Is your friend a real 80 with appropriate gear or are they up-scaled?

Outside of that, sword/focus, shield of wrath and wait for a few ticks while setting up target like CMF said. Then JI and it pops, then of course add in smite condition, swap over to GS, etc. You can down unexpected people rather quickly if the stars align and the RNG is kind to you. No difference than any other class though. And if you don’t down them, and they recover, it is a 50/50 chance you will die.

That is, my opinion, what makes the full zerk guardian build so interesting. It takes a bit of skill, usually intense when out numbered, and zergs, well, you just need to be careful. If I see a Guardian setting up a fight with shield of wrath I know their game and they will usually die.

Oh, there was a bug with spirit weapons for less than 24 hours and spirit weapons but this wouldn’t apply if this just happened. Several threads on crazy numbers using those

I’m pretty sure you said PvE but wanted to throw this out there. Don’t worry about Ascended gear for WvW. Solo roaming maybe but small tactical teams or zergs you can run naked and still do fine.

Burning + book in WvW has a lag time. If the book is up, its good. If it is on cool-down, you are playing defensively and I’d wager not doing much good. Condition to retaliation trait is super lame unless they change the cap.

Meta + zerk is living on a razors edge. If you are an above average player you will win more than loosing, even when the odds are stacked against you. Just look at a few of the builds and videos out there. On the other hand if you are average then it will be 50/50 at best. This is from a WvW perspective only.

PvE it doesn’t matter and run whatever is fun. There are no meters, there is no inspection. No one really cares. If they do, go play in another persons sandbox because you won’t have fun with that group anyway.

I play Heal/Support, Triple med+zerk, and a couple different burns. Out of those builds the meditation build with zerker gear is by far the most intense and oddly enough the best I play (I’m an average player). Heal and condi I’m more in the back lines just yelling words of encouragement…..while others do the work.

brandon.6735:

oZii.2864:

It’s 3 guards and 3 guards working together is tough to kill especially if they built right same thing happens when you put guards and d/d eles together or guards and warriors.

Not just 3 guards but 3 of any class that works great together can be hard to kill.

^^ This. In fact, any small group working together or having played a while together will wreck just about anything in front of them. I see this all the time. Hell, just ran into a 5 man group of heavy armor composed of 2 guardians and 3 warriors. Talking about a wrecking ball (and not that tramp twerker either!).

Side note to Moleless – it isn’t stupid to run a full zerker setup in WvW. It is actually a pretty big challenge to play if truth be told. I’d put it up there a close second to playing with nothing on but your birthday suit. Is it ideal? No. I’ll give you that and I wouldn’t recommend it for the average player. But there are some on this forum who run it and do pretty amazing with it and not hitting upscaled players or picking on those with low health. I’m talking about engaging multiple targets.

Anyway – that is all

spoj.9672:

5% dmg per passive virtue should of been one of the new grandmasters. Cant believe burn dmg increase and retal scaling from condi dmg was even considered.

I know several people tried the new retaliation trait but honestly we should take a poll and see how many people used any of the new traits. The only problem with this is the sample would be small but I’d bet a soda most people are not using any…

My original burn build I used 3 of each….

Not sure if there is a rotation per say or order but maybe check out Amins Med Roaming video’s: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoAR-IIV-ht_jQyUwrFHgY8XuvQ3IWXg5

It is sort of focus 5, let it almost get to pop, JI to target, smite condition, then switch to GS, and more burst. I run a triple med and sort of follow that and adapt from there. But Amins and others are better and can probably offer more help. Few of the stickies may too.

Amins.3710:

foofad.5162:

. So it’s less about “where” and more about “when.” You don’t use it in preparation. You use it proactively right as the CC starts flying.

You only need 3 Point Control Guardians for an entire zerg, all w/ the right/same build. They can cycle their abilities so there is no overlap.

Most people don’t realize this.

I almost feel has if it is all I do see some attempts but it is mostly stacking, buffing something, then charging. I’ve only seen a few cases whereas people actually attempt to CC/Bust a zerg ball using Guardians. And those people transferred

You may have said it in another post and it may apply to this thread though. Running a Guardian DPS/Berserker build is probably the most challenging in the game. There is little room for error at least in my opinion.

I run it has find it the most difficult anyway compared to my safer AH or Cleric support builds. I’d almost go so far has to say I live longer running the berserker build because it makes me play better and pay attention but that is just me.

Fashion Mage.3712:

I made that response specifically because I was “educated” enough to read the april feature pack notes further than anything just concerning guardians, despite a guardian being my main.
The devs mentioned that this new effect only affects allies when they were talking about the elementalist trait Aquatic Benevolence (in the notes that is, not the stream), and when they go on about the changes to sigils and runes (they even bolded it in red text if I recall correctly).
As Ozii said, it was also apparently mentioned in the first patch stream for those who prefer streamed notes over normal notes for whatever reason.

Not only that, but this is easily tested in pvp (which you seem to have forgotten about, according to your OP).

It affects healing from regeneration by the way (which I tested in pvp of course).

This doesn’t change the fact that people don’t need to act like a ‘poo’ head. However, your mileage may vary and its your Karma at the end of the day…

Bash.7291:

There is one thing im going to suggest, and going to try testing soon hopefully, but messiah, try using some carrion gear as well. I took your spec (with a minor change, and used carrion in sPvP and have been flat out destroying people, to the point that they have been asking me about the build. But I am very curious to see how it translates over into WvW.

Mind if I ask how you live with Carrion gear? That ist he set that I’m using more or less and with 2300k armor I get melted by ambient bunnies. Of course I’m talking about WvW.

Group play I can live longer but I’m standing back. Solo roaming I don’t think I’ve killed one single person yet but then again I’m used to full zerk build and probably still need time to figure out the dance…

Might I suggest for the next video you use the song noted below for your sound track:

Burning Ring of Fire…by the great Johnny Cash

I think it would have been appropriate.

I feel anet just needs to bring more focus in the zeal line and fix up radiant retaliation. Maybe remove the damage cap if you have the trait?

This would be fine for a single Guardian. It wouldn’t be fine with 2 or more Guardians (e.g. WvW or any PvE dungeon). That is why it will never be greater than 33%. I wish it was otherwise because it would be heck of fun but alas it isn’t. And I was hoping so very much that this “Grand” trait wouldn’t have any limits

I honestly don’t recall but was going to check real quick when it hit me…. I just swapped them out last night to try Dolyak runes So, pass by me.

You consider 3 Balthazar with 3 Flame Legion?

I was running a 6/6/2 but went with fiery wrath, zealous blade, and amplified wrath and scepter/focus/GS. My issue or test was based on what I had and that was a previous condition build using Carrion mixed with Balthazar/flame legion runes.

Doesn’t work too well with such low armor value that Carrion offers in WvW so I wouldn’t recommend it. I didn’t try to mix in anything with Rabid at the time and I’m only playing in regards to WvW small havoc teams of solo/duo or triplets flipping towers and camps.

Good thing we don’t have DPS meters or inspection options. No one knows what the heck you are running so have at it and run what you brung.

Won’t happen Blakdoxa, that is why it was changed in WvW to match PvP

Honestly after trying some builds with it again it isn’t great for solo play out in WvW. Unless you can bring 1400 to 1500 condition damage and 2800 armor to the plate, forget it. You can put some pressure on people I’ve found but at the end of the day bingo armor means insta death. This is coming from a solo/duo or trio make up.

I was running a 6/6/2/0/0 with carrion but have to say the armor was way too low when it was all said and done and death came quickly. Not sure how it would in a larger group since I was solo or duo mostly.

Did you add in the new grand master trait radiant retaliation?

Amins.3710:

I love how the Guardian has to sacrafice everything to get something.

We want DPS… there goes any type of real sustain in anything other than havoc groups.

We want Conditions… we have to use Sigils & Runes.

We want to Bunker down… we sacrifice any real damage.

And although #1 & 3 is “balanced” in theory, the amount of sacrifice is what brings the issue’s to light w/ the design of the class.

THAT has ~always~ been “the issue”…. The AMOUNT of sacrifice a guardian has in unparalleled by any other class. Fix this and the guardians will go back to being silent and content.

I can’t agree with this more. So true and spot on.

BTW – nice 4th video.

Best is subjective and no one will ever agree. Those are just the facts.

There are, however, several forum Guardian players who try and help the community by offering builds or discussions. There are a few of those who I’d wager are in the top tier of players. Then there are a few whom I’d wager are higher yet in skill that could probably play the class butt naked and still win or live to tell the tale.

Traveler runes allow you to disengage or use some soft CC and catch the classes that can reset the fight and get away. Without speed our class has a lot of difficulty with people that can reset.

There are options like Twisted mentioned but has a solo roamer I’m not ready to ditch the traveler runes just yet. Like Obtena the nerf back in December or earlier was a game changer for symbol of swiftness and it is utterly worthless now(hey bad guy or girl who is chasing me to kill or mutilate my body, please stop when I do so I can cast this stupid symbol that grants me a few ticks of speed and the longer I stay in the longer my speed will last…yeah, not going to happen).

While a lot of people don’t know about the feathers we are still robbing Peter to pay Paul. We have to eat the loss somewhere although admittedly this gives us one other place I guess.

tattoohead.3217:

I agree with the spirit weapon analysis above they would probably suck, didn’t realize they scaled with power.

Is there any way to do a condi build effectively in WvW/PvP?

I’ve been trying and so far, zero luck. I think I logged out last night with a 6/6/2/0/0 build surrounding carrion armor and accessories. I think I peaked around 1550 condition damage using food buffs. Runs split 3/3 Balthazar and, err, drawing a blank on the other 3, sorry.

Anyway in group play I think it would be OK but my lack of armor was killing me too quickly solo roaming. I think I was around 2200 armor and 17k health. Not ideal. Every time even with a pair of Mesmers I was the first down no matter how well I played.

Charak.9761:

2/5/6/0/1 medi build

2/4/6/8 who do we appreciate!

Blasino.3128:

I know, but at least they are trying to give us a condi build. The idea is interesting, but not implemented in the best way.

We can only hope they improve things.

There are other things they could “try”. Conditions are not one though. I actually forgot they made it a PvE/WvW split coefficient so was actually looking forward to it. I tried it several times out in WvW and just never saw much use out of it.

I’ll try again over the weekend in larger groups but for a solo or duo tandem camp or tower flipping pair it isn’t viable at all.

The gear still works and works fine. The only difference is now that you have a few options for Sigils and Runes. While I don’t like the changes it still works and provides the best challenge of play when in WvW.

PvE? I can’t say because I really don’t mess around with that meta but what I have done it is still DPS and I don’t see it changing anytime soon.

Is that the one that has the 6th option that turns you into a mist form at or around 10% health? I’m just wondering if going 6 deep would be worth it since “I” seem to drop really fast at 10%. I guess I mean it doesn’t seem like it would help much if this is the rune I am thinking of. I guess I should check.

Hate to look at it this way but could it be that the player base is the ignorant one here?

I don’t believe so because there are some pretty solid players that provided builds, different builds, and some facts behind the numbers. Is this one of those moments that we just need more time to play or have people show their cards?

Aza.2105:

Crapgame.6519:

So what is the intent for use or in what meta?

Would this even be used in PvE? I don’t PvE much and when I do I just go full DPS/Zerk in my limited play. I don’t think I’d like to be hit for something to work.

But in PvP / WvW it seems like it would be a good source of damage especially in WvW when crap is flying everywhere. But that is why this was adjusted to begin with. So thanks Arena Net for a stupid worthless trait. Can I get a refund?

Oh – that is probably why they offer free re-trait

My guess is they may have wanted retaliation to be a surrogate condition. In other words in addition to burning, enemies would have to deal with being hit with high retaliation damage too. I don’t think they took into consideration how the retaliation damage cap nullifies radiant retaliation. IF the damage cap was gone, then the trait would actually be good.

As it stands it has no use in pve and no use in pvp.

Thanks for the feedback. That makes sense and now I’ll probably stop trying to make it work. I guess in a big group of people with multiple guardians it could work but that isn’t how I play. And I really don’t PvE so that pretty much seals the deal for me

Appreciate the discussion folds. And ArchonWing, I like cake so that trait would be fine with me At least I’d know what I was getting.

Grumpdogg.6910:

All those condi hammer warriors and condi guardians?

Condition Guardians. That made me laugh.

If PvE is your thing then great. Now get that to work in WvW and we’ll celebrate.

So what is the intent for use or in what meta?

Would this even be used in PvE? I don’t PvE much and when I do I just go full DPS/Zerk in my limited play. I don’t think I’d like to be hit for something to work.

But in PvP / WvW it seems like it would be a good source of damage especially in WvW when crap is flying everywhere. But that is why this was adjusted to begin with. So thanks Arena Net for a stupid worthless trait. Can I get a refund?

Oh – that is probably why they offer free re-trait

In what way? I know they changed it a while back but to what? The tool tip just says scales so what is it capped at?

Seems rather dumb if so because it is a master trait /boggle

You had about a 60 minute window to run Spirit Weapons yesterday before they patched it. Now it is back to normal and you won’t see many running with them. You will probably have to lead the charge and build the build!

Sorry, I’m running it out in WvW. It would probably be cheaper for me to try in sPvP though /rollseyes.

My armor is Carrion and I’m using the same food and crystal has you mentioned. I’ve not tried using rabid armor but maybe if I tried to mix it in it would help buff up my weak armor which is at 2200 give or take using all carrion.

Buy them from the trainer if you are lazy or have money to burn or hate PvE. That is what I did and I’m guilty of all three reasons I stated.

Or, if you like to PvE or on a server that it gets done, PvE them for free.

If by blacked out or a red X over the skill it is because the cool down is on so it won’t let you change. I saw this happen a few times last night while changing traits around in WvW. One minute I’m good and can select skills the next I can’t and they have red X’s on them. Whatever the reason was I either got out of combat or a timer was reset and I was good to go.

Probably the best thing so far in this patch is the refund of traits.

urieldhynne.2743:

I see a lot of condi guardians, most played profession right now….
.

Really? In what format of play do these condition guardians exist?

Well has I noted above i tried several different builds and never once felt like I accomplished anything. In fact, I can’t even tell if the trait is working. I’ll be the first to admit I am clueless in setting up a new build but I do know it didn’t feel right. I made a few more changes and managed to get condition damage over 1,500 but still nothing earth shattering.

It did not feel has smooth has my triple meditation DPS roaming build. It didn’t have any speed. No staff and I had mix rune so no traveler. Defenses probably my fault since I’m used to my dps build but it seemed I would go down much quicker When I was running with a trio (2 x Mesmer and I) it was hit or miss. Mace / Torch / GS was my last weapon set with fire/smoldering sigils.

you won’t kill a ambient bunny with 1700 healing power

Obtena.7952:

I guess the point was to force a marriage between condition damage gear on retalitation builds … clearly a terrible idea.

So back to this new master trait. Anyone trying to make it work?

I’m trying a 6/6/2/0/0 at the moment but not having much luck on this stupid thing. GS/Mace/Torch. I’ve also tried scepter/shield. How are they expecting you to play this build.

I’m a tick over 1400 condition damage with food for duration. It is either broke, a gimmick build, or like you said – A TERRIBLE IDEA!

DPS is risky. Have to say playing it the last month or so has been a blast out in WvW. But it isn’t for everyone and you do die quick if you make a mistake. Very little room for error and this mode does force one to bring their A game.

And what, you don’t like the new master trait Radiant Retaliation?

Because we can’t have the Guardian’s having anything good…

Yeah let us all run out and buy superior generosity sigil at 30 to 60 gold a pop or whatever they are currently trending at