Guild Wars 2

I think it depends on the situation. At keeps and against a very zergy landscape, I would prefer condition damage. It’s true you can’t stack poison, but spreading it is a very good tactic to stop people exiting the damage area.

In other situations, crit/power is probably better.

It’s worth thinking about condition duration as well, though. It works well for upping damage from the condition component, and also means people stay crippled longer when you are using your bow to escape (one of its two main uses for most thieves I would think).

Why is it wrong to say that in the situation that is MOST applicable to a multi-player fight is one we should take note of? I can’t see how you can say “A thief is only OP if other players are around” in a game where other players are around most of the time!

If a player gets a short immob on him that he can’t escape, it’s practically a guaranteed kill for the thief, as almost everyone here acknowledges. How many classes is that true for?

And yes, I know there are many people who stand around gormlessly and let themselves be killed. We can’t really use those players as evidence can we? The point is that even players who a competent PvPers have no defence against the whole “if at any time you stop moving and take your eye off the thief you are dead.”

Krathalos.3461:

GW2 has counters. All classes and builds do. The fact that you think thief vs. thief is a hard match up makes me think you haven’t PvPed very often. High defense, condition or healing builds are the most difficult match ups for thief. Thief is the second squishiest class in the game. High burst doesn’t matter much if your burst becomes insignificant.

Then you are wrong twice. Once for thinking I have not PvP often, I have, and again for thinking low HP is not relevant when burst is in question. On high HP classes, you will be finished by the thief’s HS spam, and it may well take a few applications. On a thief, you will be finished by at most one HS, and often the mug, CnD and BS will kill you outright.

Not to mention that a thief’s defences are almost entirely active. Both stealth and evasion, which are amazing defensive tools against opponents you are aware of and have the option of using, are much less useful when a thief opens up on you from stealth.

On top of all that, if you survive a thief’s initial strike, you are fighting someone who has as much evasion and stealth as you, high DPS, plus a shortbow for aoe/cond damage. That’s as tough a fight as you ever get against any other class.

It may well be that a lot of thieves don’t realise this, maybe because they are themselves just applying by rote the BS one-trick-pony and not really playing their thief’s capabilities beyond that. More likely, this forum is just filled with people desperate to validate their own performance in PvP by refusing to acknowledge the obvious truth that thieves are currently slightly OP on BS builds.

Wolfe.3097

sorry i dont use basilisk, and i agree id be ok with a failed backstab unstealthing us. but it doesnt change the fact that compared to any other skill in the game, its harder to land, regardless of it being easy.

and you know what, outside of the cheese that is precast CnD>steal>backstab, BS is entirely avoidable. Ive played against actually good players who dont stand there adn let you stab them in the back, they move.

but i agree its easy to land on people who dont try to avoid it at all, even when they see me go into stealth.

Your whole argument is based on the fact that you do not use basilisk venom. If they enforced that by removing it from the game, I would probably be a lot closer to your point of view, although even then I would say BS needs toning down.

People who are “just standing there” may well have no choice. Even people who are (a) sensibly mobile, (b) aware of what is going on and (c ) packing some purges in their utility, will spend a certain proportion of their time fighting other opponents with purges on CD. At that point, not only is landing BS very easy, the whole insta-kill chain is pretty much a given for any halfway competent thief player.

@Iron Wolf – the hardest fights I ever have are against other thieves, without any doubt at all. And that should tell us all we need to know about whether our class is OP.

Of the non-thief classes, I have had trouble with defensive guardians, although “trouble” here means it could go either way, not that they roll me easily. There are other classes like necros and engis who have strong situational builds and have taken me apart without trying, but that’s only when the situation favours them.

I’m not sure GW2 has hard counters, and I’ll be very glad if it stays that way. Knowing who you can and can’t beat before the fight has even begun belongs in other, less sophisticated PvP (e.g. WoW).

@Valador I agree that stealth classes and to a lesser extent DPS classes have always been the strongest, but I’m not sure it’s always been “catering” to them. One thing that’s hard to get around in fights is that the best defence is a strong offence. And the best form of CC is killing someone :P

You don’t need to defend the profession of your choice. When people criticise it, they are not criticising you, and it is in no way your fault that there are elements of the class that need adjustment – probably that is true of most classes.

It’s sad, but I guess human nature, that people find it hard to be objective about their own classes. It’s been true of every class in every game since the dawn of MMOs.

It would probably be quite enlightening if we could go back and re-read some of the defenses bright wizards made in WAR to show how they were not OP and could be easily countered and that all their opponents just needed to l2p.

Sorry, but counting the number of constraints on its use doesn’t really change anything does it? It is easy to apply. None of us has much trouble applying it.

Once you are in stealth with basilisk venom applied you just position and go for it. If you miss you can even take another swipe. Sometimes the vagueries of the fight will mean your target is no longer in the right position, but even then it does pretty decent damage.

I wish people would stop calling it a “glass cannon” thief. Sure, if you let people hit you, we have low HP and toughness and no mitigation skills. But with stealth and evades we are very difficult to hit.

More like a glass version of one of those Jedi training balls out of A New Hope :P

I would also like to see a few less people going on about how other classes can “easily counter” us by choosing the right skills. If people out there are adjusting their builds solely to counter thieves, then we are clearly overpowered.

As a thief, I have two problems with backstab:

1) It does too much damage for a skill that is so easily applied. I don’t like it when my class has game balance affecting skills like this because I like to earn my victories.

2) As an OP skill it has become the centre piece for the lame defacto build of lazy thieves everywhere.

Nerfing BS would make us play better and be more creative with our builds. Both good things.

Paladine.6082

@Foolsage – and you are wrong, it is perfectly legal to sell chips you win/buy from a casino.

Yes, but that’s because the chips do not affect the game through which you won them. A casino’s economy is not a trade, it is based entirely on mathematic formulae off odds calculation that scale perfectly no matter how many chips you introduce into the system.

In a few casino games you can occasionally “buy” a victory against other players, but most actual casinos are set up to prevent this (with stake limits, etc).

This compares to any game where trading is part of the game mechanic. Flooding the system with either currency or a game-significant item essentially breaks the game.

You wouldn’t be allowed to buy currency in a game of Monopoly and you wouldn’t be able to buy extra pieces in a game of Checkers.

The impact of gold farming is an indirect one and in the complexities of the trading system it is not so easy to get your head around the bottom line impact such things have on the game. But the impact is there nonetheless.

If you are indeed someone entrusted with negotiating at a governmental level, whether it be for human rights or something else, you really should have a decent grasp of how economies work. Economies are a fundamental underpinning of society and hence linked inextricably with human rights.

I read the advice and as a thief do not agree with it. If I am targetting someone and they dodge, I won’t use my steal on them. If by some luck they dodge at just the moment I steal, or they use their stun break, I will just switch to shortbow and evade away.

A lot of the time my steal will be up again before their stun break is off CD, so I can give it another try at that point, knowing that if I was wrong, I can always evade away again.

Even a glass cannon won’t die if you never hit it.

It’s really mad how Pistol Whip was nerfed but not Backstab. I think PW deserved it, but BS deserved it more and got overlooked. Hard to fathom.

MMO PvE is almost never exciting. If it is easy it is dull and if it is hard it is frustrating. This is because PvE is repetitive and predictable. Even the bits you have never done before are predictable because they use the same elements of combat and environment that have been used in the rest of the game.

I would say the goal should not be to make PvE exciting, it should be to make it engaging. How do you do that? Engaging storylines, characters and tasks.

I’d say GW2 has done a good job of that. As good as any MMO I have played, although that’s not saying much because most MMOs are derivitive and lazy (oh look it’s a dwarf who loves gold and drinking and an elf who likes nature – how very original).

mulch.2586

It really doesn’t have to be a moral argument, and not everyone shares those particular beliefs.

I had a grad student from China who was avid gamer, and his belief in hacks/bots/cheats was very similar to how I view a nice mouse or fast computer. It’s not “cheating” to some — it’s just how you play the game.

That is like saying “I know this guy, when he plays chess he doesn’t move the pieces, he just picks the board up and batters his opponent into submission with it.”

I think you will find that making your own rules up to games is wrong by most people’s view of things, because once people start doing it, the game becomes unplayable. This is true of all games I can think of, including MMOs. However, because noone is smacking anyone with a chess board, it is harder to see the damage being done.

Play outside game mechanics = destroy game mechanics.

I don’t think Galen is being entirely fair. GW2 does not seem like a game that was rushed out the door. Its bugs are more to do with design than time spent in development.

There seem to be one or two game mechanisms extremely prone to breaking once large volumes of players use them. That’s not something that could necessarily have been picked up pre-launch.

My personal opinion is that anyone who thinks TOR was more finished than GW2 is mad. TOR was buggy AND incomplete and much thinner for the content too.

It’s pretty misleading for people to keep quoting our low HP/toughness and call us squishy.

Thieves have loads of evades and stealth itself. Those help our survivability a huge amount and are not things we need to sacrifice to achieve high burst.

I do think necros have a problem with thieves, because a necro can counter a close in burst build or a ranged plinking build, but not both. The thief just needs to switch weapons to ensure victory.

I play thief as my main and have no real alts. I’d say the original point is over-stated and melodramatic, but I do think there are a couple of OP Thief builds.

Backstab build – stealth, immob/backstab, HS to death. Can reliably kill people in a tiny amount of time before they have any time to react or anyone can intervene.

PW build – stack buffs, immob, PW. Also kills people too quickly with no chance for them to react.

People state various counters for these builds, but all the counters are impractical in a fast-moving, multi-participant environment. If the counter requires you to be completely devoting your time to not getting backstabbed, then the thief has won anyway.

I realise that these builds require compromises elsewhere, like hit points and general survivability. I also realise that both builds are not for key mashers. They do require timing and skill. But personally I don’t think either of those facts mitigates the over-poweredness.

The burst on these skills might need to be capped or reduced.

Yes.

Even if I got bored enough to leave the game today or tomorrow, I’ve had plenty of value for the money I paid.

I don’t know about ingame currency/items buying (125 gems for one black lion key?), but then that’s not the topic.

If I tell the launcher to remember my password, it gives me a “cannot connect to log-in server” message. If I type my password manually, it logs me in fine.

NOTE – I really do think this is a bug rather than an account issue, so please do not move this thread to the “account issues” forum unless you are sure it is not a bug.

As much as some of the decisions by Anet disappoint or frustrate me, commitment to the level playing field in PvP really makes me like them.

If you can win PvP before you even load into the instance, by equipping better gear or choosing an IWIN spec, then the game is failing. Players who want it to be that way clearly do not understand the joy to be had from a fair fight.

As it stands, GW2 gets it spot on for me on the gear front. A lot fo diversity, so experimentation is still fun, but no progression or balance effecting upgrades.

Now sort the class balance out (i.e. nerf mesmers) and we’ll be looking at truly fair combat.

GW2 needs more maps, but it needs BETTER maps.

WoW doesn’t even pretend to be a PvPers game and has more tactical maps than GW2.

WAR, which I guess was positioned closest to what GW2 is going for had much more diversity and originality in its maps.

The maps in GW2 are (a) too samey, (b) too frantic – just charging from node to node and © not tactical enough in nature.

In particular I would like to see some capture/hold the item maps or different shapes of nodal domaination maps (e.g. narrow, hilly, in buildings).

Sorry if this has already been reported and/or answered. I searched and did not find one.

Since the patch, I now need 2-3 attempts to log in before getting in. I’m getting the old “it’s probably your router” message it used to display when the login server was too busy.

mouse.1689:

Devs are considering rewarding glory for point defense. I think it would be a very good change.

As for hotjoin 8v8 being a horrible cluster**** of a zergfest, it is what it is, and it won’t ever be anything other than that. If you’re tired of it, definitely play 5v5 tPvP.

I agree, that would be a nice change.

I don’t agree about sPvP entirely. People often chase glory, so making the glory rewards for good play instead of mindless killing/zerging should help the situation. It’ll never be perfect, but it could help.

Your link to the thief build is broken mate. It goes to the ranger one.

Good post btw. Whether people agree with the builds or not, it’s nice to see them being shared.

Er … gullible in what way? That would imply someone had told me a lie and I believed it.

Noone has told me digital sales outweigh box sales. It’s my own speculation based on what I have observed from my own and my friends’ habits. We mostly buy digital now.

Ronin.8095:

If people want be touchy about everything I can’t help that.

lol, there’s nothing like denying responsibility for your part in a situation. If the house wants to burn down every time I throw a burning bottle of petrol into it, it’s not my fault!

You may find people “touchy” because your style is grating. You a flippant, dismissive and often rude. People don’t WANT to be irritated by your posts, but it’s many people’s natural and inevitable reaction to the way you put things.

You can, in fact, “help that.” Simply by being more polite and considerate when posting would help a whole lot. If you choose not to, that IS your choice, not mine.

Dradiin.8935:

Hmm, i felt what killed WAR was scenario’s more than anything else, for me what kills GW2 is the punitive diminishing returns the devs have implemented to fight off botters. Problem is all the batters have done is either relogged after event is done, or they switch to an alt and do an event on that, then switch back.

WAR would have me playing it still if they had gone with 3 factions, but Mythick did not want to fight Gamesworkshop on that front, gave in, and ended up making a mediocre game.

Three factions would have helped WAR, I agree. I think GW2 need a huge hand for the clever way they’ve solved the faction thing. WvWvW is a great approach.

I really have to disagree with you about scenarios. If the class balance had been less broken, WAR would have kept me playing just on the strength of it’s instanced PvP. It had the most tactically varied set of maps of any MMO I have played.

I really wish other games would take a nod from WAR on that. GW2 has bland and uninspired maps by comparison.

tolunart.2095:

If Blizzard had sold X Million copies, in boxes and/or online, there would be ads everyone on the internet screaming “X Million Copies Sold!” by now. I’m sure they had the ads ready to go, it just turns out they don’t need them.

I’m not sure that’s true. The ads I’ve seen for MoP have been pretty good without needing to mention sales. I think if you are a potential WoW player, you probably already know that gazllions of people play it. I’m tempted to say they make better adverts than they do games :P

I prolly coulda guessed you would be one who is of a like mind on that score.

I’m actually such a “noob” as these things are counted that I wouldn’t know what to do with a ton of karma. Once I have a halfwway decent set of gear, I’m happy.

That’s an interesting post, I hadn’t thought of those similarities to WAR.

Mind you, the things that actually killed WAR for me and my friends were uninteresting zonal PvP and horribly unbalanced classes. I don’t mind attacking a door, as long as while I am doing so there is fun to be had.

If Anet can ensure WvW stays interesting and that Mesmers do not become GW2’s Bright Wizards, I’d probably tolerate most of the rest of it.

Am I the only player in GW2 who does an event and doesn’t pay attention to how much karma it got me?

Frankly I would still do the event if it didn’t get me any karma at all.

I suspect digital sales have got to the point where they substantially outweigh box sales. That’s the world we live in.

Sadly, GW2 cannot kill WoW. Maybe that’s because WoW is undead rather than being alive. If ever there was a game resembling and unstoppable zombie, WoW is it.

GW2 on the other hand (to me) resembles a member of a Star Trek away team we’ve not seen before. It only remains to find out if he is one of the ones who turns out to be the guest star of the episode, or is he the nameless schmuck who gets phasered 5 mins into the story.

Ronin.8095:

I quoted you as I agreed that we need to stop “playstyle” discussions and forcing other people to bend to our will when it comes to playing a game. It’s not a good idea. You’re right.

I then went on to discuss the method and pitfalls of DR (there are no merits.)

I also talked about how it’s relevant to botting and how the two are inextricably linked.

If you don’t like me quoting you to agree with you and elborate on your point and add other points of my own, I don’t have to. If that’ll make you feel better.

I didn’t say you either opposed or supported it and frankly, I don’t really care.

Didn’t say I didn’t like it, I said it wasn’t sure why you did it. You could have explained and left it at that. Sometimes people just want to discuss things with you and are not looking for a fight. I know, GASP right?

As for your view of the merits, I disagree. A well implemented DR system could pave the way for a game without bots or farming, which is the game I would like to play in.

Your comments about method I do agree with. It seems this incarnation of DR is either (depending on who you believe) hurting the botters but also hurting the players, or hurting the players and just forcing the botters to bot a different way.

Bottom line is, the DR we have today is not satisfactory. We probably only disagree on how dis-satisfactory it is.

Dradiin.8935:

There any positive reasoning behind not replying to the community about the open world DRs ?

I can’t speak for Anet, but I am willing to take a guess: the jury may well be still out for them. They only implemented it a few days ago. When they speak to the community they need to do it from an informed opinion.

Mind you, it wouldn’t hurt for them to put something placatory out like “we hear you and will take it into consideration.”

Sorry, not sure why you have quoted me in your reply.

My post neither supported nor opposed DR. It just said we need to talk about its merits and methods, which this time around you have done for the most part.

tolunart.2095:

ravinhood.3981:

It’s a good system, I like it. Makes getting things take a whole lot longer as it should. One shouldn’t have a full set of anything in a few days or weeks play. Why back in the day when I played Everquest it might take MONTHS to get an optimum drop in it.

MMO’s are meant to be played for years not minutes.

I’m relatively new to the whole MMO thing, but one of the common complaints I’ve seen about other MMOs is that they give out rewards for little or no effort, and people reminisce about how epic their quests were in UO, EQ1, AC etc. There are often posts wishing there were MMOs like that nowadays where you had to really work for something and people didn’t hit level cap in three days and spend the next six months sitting around polishing their Epic Thunderswords of Awesome.

This isn’t that game, but it’s definitely two steps in that direction.

I would say you comments are in danger of confusing “effort” with “complexity”.

WoW gives out tonnes of loot, but the stuff people chase, which they keep turning up for over and over, is the stuff from raids. Raids take loads of effort, in that you have to get in a team, do your part in that team and put hours and hours in at the keyboard.

However, you can do it all more or less on auto-pilot. The raid leader tells you the simple formula for completing each section, and you follow your part of that formula. It’s high effort, but requires almost no thinking.

I would say GW2 PvE is cut from the same cloth. Sorry, it might be heresy to some, but the inherent problem with PvE is that it MUST follow a formula. As soon as one person on the internet works out the trick to a given thing, that means noone else has to think.

I do believe Anet have been very creative with their PvE. The quests are much more diverse and engaging. But for me, you can really only keep players thinking in PvP, because there they have to adapt their tactics to human enemies, who in turn adapt and keep things lively.

If you want the rules to work one way and I want them to work another, one of us is going to lose out.

So, if I want a game with DR and you want a game without DR, one of us is not going to get what we want. At that point, it’s not helpful to start telling me I’ve “dictated the way you play” because the only way to get what YOU want is to dictate the sort of game I am playing in to me.

So we need to keep this discussion on the merits and methods of DR, and try to leave out all the “Stop telling me how to play” comments, which are redundant.

Maybe this game is destined to be populated only by people who are happy with PvP being the main end game (that would include me, btw).

If that’s the case, GW2 could easily still have a rosy future. Ironically, despite WoW’s hideous primary focus on loot treadmill and raiding, the sheer numbers of people it has brought to the MMO market mean there are now a lot of people out there looking for a decent PvP game.

People seem a little bit too sure of their ability to predict the future through statisticomancy or anecdotomancy.

What we know for sure is that GW2 had a very successful release, when measured by sales and that the population is going through a period of pretty sharp decline.

We can speculate that the decline will continue to an unhealthy point, or that it will level off and the game will continue on with a healthy population. But noone can say which of those 2 it will be, and being so sure you can is a bit of a conceit.

My guess … the game will level off at a low population, but one that makes it worth keep it open. I suspect it will involve some server re-shuffles sooner or later.

It doesn’t seem as dire as SWToR to me, but then that game was very flawed in ways GW2 is not. On the other hand, the only MMOs I have since have any longevity at all were ones whose player base grew after release rather than shrunk. I wouldn’t like to wager on the outcome that’s for sure.

Hi,

When you close a thread for the reason that another thread already exists on the topic, please include a link to that thread.

As a CC operative it is YOUR JOB to know everything that is on the forum, that’s fine. But as a customer I am a lot less familiar with the contents of the forum and cannot always find related threads, particularly if they are titled in a way I did not expect.

It’s extremely unhelpful to have a thread closed with a general comment about threads already existing if you cannot then go and find said threads. It effectively prevents you talking about a subject.

So, unless you are actually trying to subtly prevent people talking about certain subjects (in which case, bye bye GW2), can you please do the helpful thing as well as censoring the thread.

I wouldn’t mind if DR is here to stay, but I would definitely like to see it refined. At the moment it is affecting people who are not farming, which seems unnecessarily intrusive.

I’m a bit concerned that we are getting far fewer patches now than we did immediately post launch and the patches themselves are way less substantial.

Before you jump all over me, I do understand that there is bound to be more development effort spent immediately post release than once the game has stabilised.

However, I am running into more bugs and issues now than I did on release. Probably this is because higher level zones are less polished than lower level ones.

I would have liked to see the game get a bit further before the pace of development eased off, and it worries me that it did not. In particular, the code underlying events and quests is a big problem. Quests, events and storylines are prone to stalling, which has a big impact on player experience. I’ve got no reason to believe they are even working on this, beyond the fact they would be stupid not to. Certainly no commitment to fixing it has been voiced. All they ever talk about is resetting stalled events, they never say they want to stop them stalling.

If you don’t mind travelling backwards and have a clear route with no bits that are too tricky, yes you can spec your thief for never being caught. Combination of shortbow jump-back, the heal rollback, the utility roll back, endurance signet and endurance trait mean you can pretty much keep evading backwards without stopping.

Not sure why this is a problem though. A thief doing that isn’t exactly a danger to anyone.

Not sure I have understood this. Is he saying you can stay in stealth 100% of the time, but to do so you spend a whole lot of time just keeping your stealth going?

If so then, surely this is only of interest as a curiosity? Even if you do permastealth this way, you’re not actually likely to achieve much by way of PvP goals with it right? Anyone devoying 100% of their time to actually fighting witha usual level of stealth would do better I would think.

Thought it was going to be funny about 15% in, but it missed the mark for me.

If he was trying to make some comment on how you can mash your way to victory on a random build thief, he woulda needed to actually have more fights.

The whole vid all he did was wibble around looking to jump on a kill. You could do that on any class.

Every actual fight he had, he either lost or ran away from.

Soulwatcher.2604:

@Cribbage that’s partly true, what it the cops stayed around the bank and arrested anyone under the assumption that they are there to rob the bank. How many future customers do yo think the bank will have?

Anet stands to loose lots of future customers if word gets out that Anet punishes everyone any time a gold seller does something wrong.

I see what your saying, and it’s clear from these forums that some people are VERY dis-satisfied with DR and that probably means players will leave over it.

However, I don’t think it is so simple. I am not the only one who is glad to see strong action against gold sellers, even if it means some aspects of the game are impacted too. The DR is more likely to keep me in the game than send me out of it.

Ronin.8095:

Then sorry, but you don’t know what vitriol is. You can’t. I’ve been reasonable and stable all throughout this conversation.

You see, you do it again and don’t even realise you’re doing it now.

I’m unpleasant how? You’re just saying I’m unpleasant as you’ve made your mind up that I am. I haven’t exhibited the properties of unpleasantness. Unless you’d kindly point out where this vitriol and unpleasantness is.

Can’t you see the irony in saying “Being a jerk about it” when I’ve said or done nothing of the sort to anyone else.

That made me laugh out loud when I read that.

You want to stop me from being a jerk by calling me a jerk? It’s that’s what happening now?

You want me to stop name calling (which I haven’t done yet) by name-calling yourself?

Think about what you’re saying there. It makes little sense and you contradict yourself almost all the way through what you’ve said.

You may think it’s unpleasant if you personally don’t like what I say. That doesn’t mean it is unpleasant. You may think I’m a jerk too, that doesn’t make me a jerk.

You calling me a jerk makes you a jerk, that is a trueism and therein lies the problem.

It’s called a forum, where other people are allowed to express an opinion. At no point have I said other people’s opinions are wrong, I’ve definitely never said they’re unpleasant, negative, or called them a jerk, even if I think that’s the case.

That is being rude and vitriolic in my book.

Interesting post there.

I think you are unpleasant, because you use too much agression in your posts. You did it in this one even.

I can see from what you write that you either don’t understand that yourself or you are currently feeling a bit defensive and therefore not letting yourself see it.

Neither of those things stops it being true. And it won’t matter how much you up the agression levels, how much you attack people, or how personal you get – you can’t stop things being true by shouting at them.

Feel free to have the last word on this one, because I won’t be posting about it again. It’s not good for forums to have this kind of discussion going on.

MrThebigcheese.2014:

tolunart.2095:

Eh, I gave you the benefit of the doubt and figured you were getting all riled up because you care about the game. Obviously you’re the other sort.

You are coming off as absolutely desperate to convince yourself anyone with criticism is somehow at fault.

It’s both sad and funny at the same time.

I think he was replying to Ronin, not you mate.

Soulwatcher.2604:

Fozzik.1742:

Soulcatcher

Your 100% right most people leave with out saying a word. The people complaining about the game on the forums are the players who want it to succeed! Yet the fan boys puff up their chest and attack anyone who has anything to say other then Anet are gods!

A lot of people just play and enjoy the game without ever posting on the forums, as well. The haters are just as much at fault… as I said, the polarization on the forums leads both sides to become hysterical and take ever-more-unreasonable positions.

The people complaining about the game on the forums aren’t the only ones who want it to succeed (and I would argue that some have already written the game off as failed or doomed, and posted as much). The “fanboys” as we are affectionately called, also very much want the game to succeed. We just like it the way it is, for the most part…and feel that the worst thing ArenaNet could do is second-guess themselves and start making big changes to their underlying design philosophy.

Again, ArenaNet is pretty experienced, and I’m sure has a good handle on where the right middle ground exists. They are the ONLY ones who know how the overall player base is reacting to their game…and how the finances are working out. They have been quite successful in the past, and I don’t doubt they will continue to be.

FYI you don’t keep a player base by punishing everyone for a few others mistakes. When a gunmen goes in a bank and robs the place, do the police arrest everyone in the bank under the assumption that they may become future bank robbers? In a since that’s what Anet did with the whole DR system, now everyone pays the price!

No but on the other hand, the tendancy for people to take your money if you leave it lying around is why we build big secure buildings and lock our money up in there.

It would be much easier and cheaper for us all if we could just leave our money lying around wherever is convenient wouldn’t it?

When people break the rules, it can easily cause the whole of society to change its behaviour to compensate. Cos whether we like it or not, we are all part of the same system, the rule breaking affects the system.