Guild Wars 2

Prysin.8542:

Atherakhia.4086:

I don’t have an issue with various weapons rewarding specific types of play. My concern with longbow is the damage penalty for being at anything but max range. As it stands, if you’re not at max range, the longbow is weaker than the shortbow. At min range it’s weaker than every weapon but axe (assuming axe only hits one target).

Either make the Longbow do the same damage from 0-900 and extra damage for 900+ or make it do the same damage over all of its range and simply give it some other benefit at further range. for example… a 0/10/20% increased chance to crit depending on range.

This is largely in reference to PvP/WvW mind you. PvE I don’t even consider this to be a valid argument because of how inferior the ranged weapons are over shortsword as it is. If the damage was even remotely comparable that would be one thing. But longbow is nearly half the damage of sword iirc. Can’t justify using it in any situation outside of ranged only encounters (which few exist).

Now as for Mesmer, it’s the only class I dont have an 80 of and know nothing about.

no, the longbow has more damage in full zerker then SB has even at short range. HOWEVER, if you play celestial + assassins SB, then the added condition damage on the bleed stacking will give you higher DPS in the longer run (LB will be superior the first 4-5 seconds then SB bleeds will overtake LB damage)

No idea whos numbers are correct, but I agree with the point Atherakhia is trying to make regardess. You should be rewarded for being at max range, not punished for being at close range. Theres a difference and its an important one, especially because all ranged weapons already do less damage than melee weapons. If our LB is already doing less damage than a sword because it’s ranged, why does it need to be futher punished for being used at close range? It’s already a sub-optimal weapon in that situation and further nerfing it only serves to make it unusable rather than undesirable.

Unicorns! … No? Ok.

But really, only if their size, in terms of mechanics, changes as well. I dont want a giant bear 3 times my size which still is the same size as my owl as far as the game is concerned. Thats annoying.

Would also be more interesting gameplay wise, because you could take a giant tanky bear and actually have it properly body block and be like a walking shield ^^

I was fiddling around with this sort of thing the last few days.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNUQNBhYDbkRlCWLZxlFuWDYJUNbgA45p2quLhH4mz4qDi9A-TBSGwAAeCAJuIAnU/xoSviKDQrbA1+D9VCSGgltA-e

It’s by no means set in stone or even tried and tested, but the idea is really full melee, high mobility, high survivability and a ton of might stacking (which of course is shared with your pet). You personally should have 15ish might stacks throughout the fight. You pet will have fewer most likely, because you’re constantly swapping it out, but with RaO you can get it to 25 easily, and I did try taking 10 into skirmishing instead of WS for the pet gain might on Crits, which will increase your pets Might hugely.

Seems to work pretty well, not withstanding my inexperience with melee builds and the fact I havent played much in ages :P

My experince of LB ranger-ing in zergs is that its surprising effective in / against pug zergs. You can often keep yourself out of trouble and pick a lot of people off.

The problems come VS more skilled guild groups, who wont let themselves get picked off out of position and will have proper gankers hunting you if you’re causing a problem.

That’s always been my issue.. its fun enough picking off random zerglings but it’s got more to do with them being too bad / poorly equipped / disorganised as a group than it does with you being a dominating presence in the fight.

Used to work with Guild Buffs too (for a guild claiming a Keep). Havent tried it recently, but a lvl1 character with a full compliment of the guild buffs had pretty serious stats.

I guess in the dev’s mind it was there to buff up your pets defence so you could take a DPS pet and still have it survive…

As for the cast time, maybe they thought it would be too confusing / OP if we could make our pet stealth instantly? Who knows.

This is slightly off-topic, was I apologies in advance..

@jcbroe

I’ve really never liked that sort of logic. I don’t see any gain in adding “active” gameplay for now reason, and really Mesmer GS and Ranger SB are the two weapons I use the most and are perfect examples. For the GS I use 2, 3, and 4 pretty much off CD because they offer the best DPS. It’s very active and I am always using skills. With the SB I am mostly just AAing, sometimes going quite long periods without using my other skills because the best DPS is on the AA.

To me, the SB is much better design, not because I’m lazy and its easier, but because I am thinking about my skills. When I use a SB skill its because I want the specific special effect that skill profides for the situation I am in. I am constantly thinking, choosing, waiting, planning. It’s interactive. With the mesmer GS (with the exeption of the #5) there is very little thought. I am spamming every skill all day long purely for the DPS. Sure, I know the #3 removes boons, and the #2 gives Might, but I am not using the skills for those purposes.. they are just random bonuses that happen from the spamming to get max DPS. That, to me, is much worse design because theres no thought other than “must press all buttons!”.

Now, maybe the ranegr SB does take with slightly too far… It would be nice if all weapons had a bursting skill (like 100B, or iBerserker, etc) to give a quick sudden DPS increase, but otherall the AA should give the best sustained DPS with the other skills offering utility so that people are using them with thought and skill.

TL;DR – Interactive play >>> Active play for no reason

All games ever are like this.

The community always focuses in on specific builds / classes / tactics which are deamed the fastest or easiest. The best advice if you don’t like it is to avoid such speedruns and find the community which accepts a wider ranges of players rather than trying to change everyones perception of every class.

WvW clearly isnt perfect as it is, but I really dislike the EotM / megaserver idea. I know you could still play with your guild in the same map, but I even seperate from that it means a lot to me to recognise and know the regular players on my server and always be playing with the same pool of people, and even on opposing servers you learn to recognise opponents you encounter often. It brings a wider community feel which I don’t think I’d play without (and already don’t play EotM because of it).

Would be pretty cool Would open the door for slightly more tactical and sneaky play, something which doesnt really exist in this game at the moment.

@Marauders
To be honest even without name tags any half decent player will notice someone coming up to “insta-gib” them. Removing the name tag doesnt make you invisible, it just stops you have a huge red banner over your head which can be seen 2 miles off round the corner. And besides, WvW is not a fair 1v1 arena, it’s there for people to do what they want and come up with tactics and plans to achieve their goals their own way. Fewer obsticals to people being able to do that is a good thing.

The best roaming class is the class you’re best at playing. For me its ranger. I cant get into the theif playstyle and while I love my mesmer I am far too inexperienced to take on some opponents I would on my ranger.

It also somewhat depends what you want to do when roaming. People like me just look for fights as the primary objective, and cap/defend things as I feel like it. Other people like to go dolly hunting, which probably thieves and warriors do best. Other roamers like to defend caps, or scout, or all of the above.

Basicly where I am going with this is, they all have their stengths and weaknesses. Stealth thieves and GS warriors are the easiest to survive on, but are also not the best dualing builds, so while they can escape and survive they cant nessesarily achieve as much as another class / build.

I don’t much like full DPS builds, but for thise who do, this looks great. I would say though that for hybrid builds that the SB really is a go-to weapon. It’s damage, bleed application and fast attack speed (letting it proc Sharpened Edges more often, since theres no CD on it) really make it a monster.

Also without Sword or GS, you may sturggle to survive in a full DPS build (or at least I would)

Lace.9472:

TheKillerAngel.3596:

Ranger has very good sustained condition cleanse but doesn’t have very convenient heavy condition removal on demand without heavy trait investment.

What scenarios do you see this being useful?

In scenarios where you know how to play instead of going “Oh look a Necro / Engi, I bet I can run straight at them, take their full condi burst to the face and be fine”.

For probably over a year now I have run EB as my only condition removal and with proper play it is always enough (with the exception of pet being killed). As long as you dont go yolo and try and facetank more than you can take then sustained removal is very good.

In general I think rangers are fine of Condi-Removal, now that we have SotF as a nice new option. HS is a great removal to, though I agree not on all builds. If you are playing a trap / SB build which requires a lot of movement it is not that great, but if you are playing a melee / BM / tank build then HS is a godlike heal skill.

Hmm you are lacking slightly in evades compared to other rangers (since you havent taken dagger or SB), but really the best advice is to make sure you arent using your evades for no reason.

Against some opponents you can just spam sword3 (and dagger4 if you have it) to keep poison up, which is great, but with something like a hammer warrior you really need to be keeping those evades for their CC attacks. The attacks are fairly obvious from a hammer so with a bit of practice they are pretty easy to avoid.

Also be sparing with your Stun Breaker. If you get hit by his first stun, use your stun breaker and fast because you know hes going to chain more and more CC straight after. If you dodge the first 2 stuns and get hit by the third, maybe just take the hit and wait it out because most of his CDs are already gone, theres not much he can do, and its probably not worth putting your stunbreaker on a 30-60s CD just for one short stun.

In short, use your evade/stunbreaking skills well, dont use them because you can.

You must be trolling at this point. You asked your question and you’ve got your answer, but all you seem to be doing is arguing with the answer you got. Maybe the reason you keep losing is you’re incapable of actually taking on useful advice and considering you’re actualyl wrong.

Go get the proper gear for your build and L2P mesmer or just stop whinning. I have no trouble vs warriors in a full zerker 4-4-6-0-0 phantasm spec and I am a casual mesmer player whose played <150 hours on it.

Honestly, I would prefer new skills over a pet.

I consider myself a good ranger and with that comes using your pet as much as possible, but with only 1 truely controllable skill (which can have a very long CD) most of the time it spent just making sure my pet isn’t getting inself into trouble rather than actually using it like I would new skills.

As mentioned, I use it more and more on my trapping setup. Before the stats changes I used a few pieces but mostly just mashed together Rampagers, Soldiers, Knights and Rabid to get the stats I wanted, because full Celestial didn’t give as much of the stats I wanted and instead gave way to much Healing Power and Crit Damage.

Now with the changed stats though, it’s more or less the same as what I had before just a tiny bit better on most stats and now with more Crit Damage than I had previously.

I’m not sure about your use of Dire here, at least not full Dire.

Firstly, the SB without precision really is very lackluster. Sure, you have the bleed on flanking, but alone that wont actually give you as much as you’d think. The really strength of the SB comes from its firing speed which allows you to proc bleed-on-crit very quickly and from longer range than our other condi-weapons. If I were you I’d swap half your dire gear for rabid and take 2 points into Skirmishing over MS, or drop the SB and take S/D instead.

Also you’re healing choice seems odd. You probably want the condition removal from HS, which is fair enough, but HS on its own with no Healing Power and no leap or blasts is a pretty poor skill. You’re going to have a lot of health and armour but no realistic way to replenish yourself in a drawn out fight (and as a bunker build you will have a lot of extended fights). So, again, really consider taking a sword to add in at least 1 leap to use with HS or try taking TU as your healing skill. Or alternatively you can add it some apothecary gear, because the Regen part of HS will scale very well with some healing power and making it much more worth it.

I’m surprised people in PvP aren’t more used to seeing better rangers, but in WvW it’s very common. People can get quite worked up when they lose a fight they were expecting to faceroll and often ask for a rematch because the first time they “weren’t taking it seriously”.

Lol. Typical responce from a bad player.. either blame the game for being broken or the opponent for cheating because god forbid he just doesnt understand whats going on.

Yeah… Looking back it it now its pretty obvious why they nerfed it lol.

Terrahero.9358:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Cufufalating.8479:

Its not like they have much else in the way of stuns

Pistol whip would like to have a word with you.

And while you’re using a Sword in your mainhand, you also have Tactical Strike for a 2s Daze. Throw in Basalisk Venom elite and thats quite a few CCs a Thief can suddenly push out, not considering Headshot as its mostly an interupt.

Then Stealing a 3sec AoE fear or a 4sec single-target Daze (from guardians) can create a very nasty chain of CC.

OK let me rephrase this slightly.

They have other CCs and can create a decent CC chain like any class can, but most of them are short duration interupt style skills rather than long pin-you-to-the-floor CCs like you see from warriors or even mesmers and necros. Their stolen CCs are not turning them into OP CC machines, just giving them the chance to create a nice CC chain like others can on specific builds.

Its a strong skill sure… but really it’s not that bad. So thief have a decent CC when fighting one specific class? Its not like they have much else in the way of stuns so I cant see why them having one situational one is a problem.

And disussing it on the forums is on limited use anyway. I mean in my experience roaming on my ranger, I honestly cant remember the last time a warrior or dagger theif beat me. It doesnt happen, ever. Anyone else cant say what they like to me but I know that to be true in my experience.

But I am sure Narkodx isnt lying.. In his experience a ranger of comparible skill will lose to any other class. I might think he’s never met a proper range just like he thinks I’ve never met a proper warrior, but really neither of us know anything about the other player so it doesnt mean anything.

This game lacks any sort of true league table, proper dueling or ranking system which means these discussions are really all down to peoples anecdotal evitence of their very small window of experience. (And no, I dont could PvP servers as a proper measure or test of WvW roaming, because the stats and stats combinations in PvP are far too different. I physically cant recreate the hybrid build I like to play in WvW, for example).

Yeah I know.. I understand. Its really a perspective thing. I like SB and, if given half a chance, I will do nothing but press 1 the entire fight. It sounds passive and boring, but I to me like having all my damage on my #1 so that I am actively chosing every skill I do because of the utility it provides at that moment rather than spamming all the buttons right off CD. I can understand how others see that as even more passive than spamming every weapon skill to get maximum DPS though, depends how you look at it

Speed boosts dont stack, it always takes the highest modifier.

I’ve always believed Runes do not affect your pet, but honestly I’ve never bothered to test it so wait for someone else to confirm

Rangers are good for solo and group roaming.

S/T+A/D is a very common setup for really any condition builds, and yes regen builds are also very often played on roaming builds and are very effective.

So, no. Rangers are in no way second to any class for WvW roaming.

Basicly what Terra said.

The simple solution is move it to the Major trait spot liek the mesmer version of this trait is, though exactly what you’d swapi it with I dont know. I dont know enough about thief traits and builds to know.

@Narkodx
Pretty sure warrior is the slowest condi-applier out of all the classes which play condi builds, but OK.

Also rangers are known for being excellent at dueling so I am not sure where you’ve come up with that notion from.

@OP, I have to admit I hate that type of build myself… You use every single ability straight off CD; dodges, elite and stunbeaker all included. Myself I cant see the point or fun in such a build since there seems to be no thought, not reaction or anticipation of your opponent, just pressing all the buttons and hope your build is better than his… but your saving grace is you do seem to be genuinely good at movement and positioning and that was nice to watch. So.. yeah, well played for what it is, but really not my thing :P

Wiki says 325 with a 1s ICD. Pretty cool food actually.. going to put that on my silly theory build that oneday I might make

In regards to the OP, looks like a fairly standard zerker build. Curious as to why you chose an Arcodus as a pet though, I really cant imagine any benifit to having a bear in your setup and even if you do want a bear why that one?

It’s not so much that rangers are terrible with bows, its just that in many places this game just doesnt support ranged combat in general. PvE is the most obious example, where no class (of those that have a choice) can efficiently range. Its always better to go melee because stacking helps with buffing and melee damage is always higher than ranged damage.

So in that sense, it’s not a ranger issue its just how the game is. Rangers just suffer more from it because people try to force being the “Archer” class it even in situations where ranging is just not approapriate.

PvP wise, the SB is probably the most commonly use Ranger weapon, so the bows clearly have a place at the high end when used correctly, and LB is also good if use well, but moreso in WvW than PvP.

Always in 2 minds about this sort of thing…

On the one hand, yeah they really do need to reward WvW players better and allow us access to top tier armour through WvW.

But then on the other hand, if they do do that we will be flooded with even more Non-WvW players karma training around in 100 man armies ruining it for the rest of us.

Based on how long ANet usually takes with balance updates, I honestly wouldnt expect anything based on the CDI to come out before September, probably later.

Still, with any luck they will tell use exactly what ideas / current problems they took from the CDI and what they are working on sooner than that.

I use Shadowplay. Works really well, simple to use and allows you to either be constantly recording and saving or you can have it just quiely running in the background and then capture last new minutes of playing after they have happened (essentually meaning you dont have to record hours of footage of you roaming about, you can just save fights worth saving after they have happened).

You need to have an Nvidi graphics card for it (I think maybe even specific models of GeForce card, but I am not entirely sure).

How can such a low level trait be limiting your build diversity…

Before the last patch, rangers had access to only one good Condition Removal and that was the a GM trait. THAT is what limiting build diversity looks like, because nearly every build from condi tank to BM to Power build took that traitline for that one trait.

This has since been fixed by giving us a new source on condition removal (in the form of a different GM trait), but that is what a seriously limiting trait is. Not some minor trait which you dont actually NEED its just nice to have.

Fun has no connection to being useful.

Unlike some other rangers on this forum, I do actually share the community opinion that rangers arent work picking in GvGs, and never pushed my guild to try make room for me (although I was still played occasionally), but that has no effect on me loving my ranger more than any other class and using by far the most

Honestly there isnt much you can do. Sentinals is the most defensive armour there is, and soliders isnt far behind. No matter what you do your damage will be low.

All I can really suggest is maybe traiting into skirmishing instead of WS. The traits are much less useful for you, but you already have so so much armour and vitality, you really just need the Prec and Ferocity from that traitline to increase your damage, and the Minor Master trait for Skirmishing really is an incredible and under valued trait giving 50% fury uptime for nothing at all.

I dont know how much you have already changed the original build posted.. But also maybe take QZ over MT, WH over OffHand Axe, and RoA over Entangle. This basicly cuts out your area control ability, which is what the build was originally designed for, but will give you a lot more fury and damage in general, and I think its better,

But really.. the best thing you can do is go buy Knights armour. Sentinals is very meh armour on any class. Warriors and Guardian can sort of pull it off, but rangers not so much.

I think Carpboy covered it really, but Carrion is generally not the best choice in WvW. Its fairly popular in PvP for its high vitality (since there is no Dire there), but for WvW I dont think I know any rangers who go for Carrion.

Rabid is a more offensive choice because of the possibility to stack rediculous amounts of bleeds. This works best if you’re using a SB due to its fast fire rate and also its in-built bleed. IT also works well in trap setups because traps can also crit and cause extra bleeding.

Dire is, obviously, the defensive choice. You lose some damage potential and also limit yourself range wise because your cant really stack an meaningful conditions at over ~350 range. Thats really want puts me off it, but of course the up side is you have a rediculous amount of HP

Definately needs more mesmers.

We demand more Tornados!

Theres a really quite a fair number of builds you can go for, too many to list all the possibilities and variations, so I’ll try just post some general thoughts of trap builds (since they are my true love in this game)

The common setup for traps is this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQBNSoS7qlr4yCVLBMEq2tQwWCsDgIYCA-T1wQgAAq/Aq8bVJIpAgYaE-w

Weapon wise really any combination of SB, Sword, MH Axe, Dagger, Torch or Warhorn will work. Its up to you and how you want to play. SB gives you the best ranged pressure, Axe will give you more burst bleeds though, and a sword is mostly defensive, etc.

Your final 2 trait points can go anywhere. Most people like 10 in MS for Keen Edges or Malicious Training, but if you want a buffer pet with might on pet swaps, or maybe some more Vitality and protection then the other traitlines work too.

For a trap build you almost always want flame trap + spike trap, but again you can mix those up. Some people like a 3 trap setup, personally I like LR as my 3rd utility, but you might also try Protect Me, or QZ. Elite is also up to you. I like Entangle, most like RaO.

Runes you might want Speed/Travellers for the movement speed, but if you chose WH offhand and RaO Elite (plus tailwind trait from Skirmishing) maybe you dont need speed. Krait is great for the condition damage+Bleed duration.. Or taking Grenth with frost trap can be good for a laugh, espeically if you throw in pets with Chill as they F2 (and if you go down this route, you probably want those 2 spare traitpoints for Malicous Training).

Basicly what I am trying to get at is… Try make the build that works for you, not one that works for someone else. Even within a trap setup there are dozens of variaous all offering something different, with different little synergyzes between pet/rune/weapon/utility choice. Everyone has preferences and playstyles, and one thing I love about rangers is that there arent 2-3 perfectly prescribed best builds. There are solid bases to work from, but really do try to change things to what you want and what works for you.

Iluth.6875:

I don’t know why exactly rangers are such a bad class, but Anet needs to fix them. I’m a pretty poor fighter (I panic) but every ranger I meet is a free kill for me.

Do they need condi purges or something? They just run around doing ineffectual damage until they die, surely something needs fixing there.

I am pretty sure even rangers look at other rangers as free kills. I don’t know what it is about rangers than makes 95% of people play them so horifically, but it is really quite obvious.

Bark skin is good. Its usually not taken because the majority of people prefer EB, myself included.

In my experience it works best with regen builds, ad on other builds it can feel a lot like you’re just delaying the inevitable. Also I think conditions are more commonly peoples weakness. But if you have enough condition removal then no, you havent missed anything. bark skin is as good as it looks, and since the theme here is BM builds then bark skin is definately the better choice between the two.

Always happens online.. a term gets overused that over time it loses it meaning.

Same thing happened in WvW… when I first started playing there the term “zerg” was used to describe those huge unstoppable hoard of people. But, over the course of months people used the term to describe smaller and smaller groups till eventually the community coined a new term – Blob. Now a blob is what a zerg used to be and zerg is something smaller.

So here we are with OP not actually meaning what it should until someone finally saves us and invents a new term for us to use.

Interesting… Very interesting. I’ve been theorising with something simular myself.

This is what I have at the moment:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNUQNBhYDbkRlCWLZxlFuWEcIUtWBmBQB8qYdPEtQVnyCOxbSA-T1RGwAAeCAJuIAnU/B0+DGV+hW3QflgkBQfBA-w

I was trying to achieve the same thing as you really.. I’ve gone down the road of less ferocity but completely taking the kitten with crit chance. My build should have 100% fury uptime without problem, and with 70% crit chance naturally.. crits will be everywhere.

From that comes unending 25 might for my pet, as well at 15-20 stacks for me (when taking into acount both sigils, runes, pet, pet F2).

Pet wise.. I wanted to keep the stalker for its F2, but went with a bird as the other because of the bleeding on the F2. Just remember, might increases condition damage too.. so a bird with 20+ might stacks is going to be packing some serious condition damage as well.

On that topic.. I had a variation with didnt use pet as a damage source which is this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNUQNAV8fjMqUwaJLusw1aADhqdLEsVNrAwdR8CXdKL4EvJB-T1RFABEcFAA4hAsi6Pks/gSK/YT3QgKBJDg+CA-w

The idea here is that the pet isnt a primary damage source (though it will still have a fair chunk of might) and instead I am trying to capitalise on my own inflated condition damage from all the might.

I’m not sure which I prefer. Survivabilty wise they are pretty much the same. The first BM varient will have slightly more might and a terrifying monster of a pet, the other will have constant condition pressure from huge bleed application (since I still have the rediculously high crit chance), as well as burning and Posion Master trait. If only I had the money to try them

Probably A/T with traps are your best bet for a blob condi setup, but I have to wonder why you’d want to do this.

bigmonto.4215:

While you are right about being able to negate a lot of condition damage, your conditional opponent will almost always be tougher and have more health than you do.

This is the amusing thing though.. We all know ignoring toughness is one of condition damages biggest strengths, but it can also become a weakness by the fact that a full berserker player is not nessesarily squishy.

You can go 100% full offensive stats vs a condi bunker with no side effects from poor defence, as long as you pack enough condi removal, and suddenly it means nothing that they are tankier than you.

In short – full zerker is harder to beat than full soliders on a condition build. Stop trying to “out tank” builds which are by design tanky and good vs other tanks because all you are doing is playing their game.

Been suggested so many times, but still support.

Sounds like you were fighting more than 1 mesmer, RoyalPredator. You do sometimes come across mesmers who deliberately dress the same and hunt in packs to do exactly that. 3 is the max clones/phantasms.

Also, unless you’re fighting VS a condi mesmer (which is a different beast altogether), mesmers usually only have 1 stealth, Decoy (excluding their elite). Its usually got a 32s CD so if you just keep the pressure up you should find they cant actually stealth as much as you’d think.

Phantasm mesmer is the only other class I play, other than ranger, and what gets me worse than anything is ranged pressure. Always.

Mesmers, and especially phantasm mesmers, tend to be on the squishy side and survive by keeping away from you and letting the GS + phantasms do the work, only coming in close to use blurred frenzy. But against a LB or SB rangers? Or even a rifle warrior? Its very easy to get overwhelmed because you suddenly have very little defense to their unended ranged pressure.

So, I dont know what build you have or weapons you use, but going melee against a mesmer is generally setting yourself up to have a bad time. Get a SB, get a LB, hell maybe even get an axe to kill off those phantasms/clones (which is very important to stop them healing) and you should be able to quite easily and quickly wear them down.

As they said, no you cant get rid of your pet.

You can chose to not trait into it, and pick a relatively “hands off” pet, such as spiders, and then just ignore them to do their thing, but you’re always going to get the most out of them and the class by at least paying some attention to your pet.

I dont think you are in much danger of your pet doing all the work for you, though :P