Guild Wars 2

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

However, unlike the OP, I didn’t run into an issue at all, because I decided I was going to explore and learn the environment first, before even attempting the story.

I had no idea there was really another way to play, actually. In hindsight, GW/Nightfall did the same thing, but to a much lesser degree.

Anyhow, the way I finally got enough masteries to complete the story past the doorway to AB was to completely map VB. That got me enough, but it’s a foreign way to play to me.

Plus, nobody I play with regularly plays differently than I do. We all want to see “how the story ends”. In Core, I spent very little time off the beaten trail of the storyline. So, getting the mapping title wasn’t even on the radar until after defeating Zhaitan.

I’m glad you can see the difference. And, thanks to all for showing me that there are more ways to play.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Daddicus.6128:

I’ve seen people advertising in LFG selling solo 100 runs in 25 minutes. Are they even legitimate? If so, are they right? Seems a little cheesy to me.

Are you asking if mai trin can be solo’d in 25 minutes? Did you even try doing a search?

• https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3yaxc8
• https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3z5cd1

Those were at the top of my google results, both under 15 minutes.

Yes, I saw those. But, my question is whether the people SELLING those runs are legit. And ethical.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

That might be because T4 fractals are stupid easy.
Also, Necs having pretty much no group-buffing abilities whatsoever, so why would they need a nerf

They’ve got two big ones (the signet and the well), but they’re condition removers, as opposed to true buffs.

Ryou.2398:

Trust me you don’t want easy progression you will get bored, it doesn’t matter how casual you are that isn’t rewarding in the end.

Not likely for me. I’ve played through 243 of the storyline missions in core. I have 64 left to go. And, when I get there, I’ll probably want to do most of them again.

But, you’re right, speaking generally. Most people are such rabid completionists as I am.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

The bar was set at a certain level. You can argue whether that level is appropriate but beating it is satisfying.

Forum participants have had that discussion. Players resoundingly and overwhelmingly stated that the bar was (is?) too high. Players have also voted with their wallets. My guess* is that hundreds of thousands of people stopped playing … and spending.

This idea allows them to KEEP the bar set high (for accounts), but still allow HoT story progression at the character level.

• My guess is based on how much it took to get the CEO to publicly admit they made a mistake. It’s not based on any actual knowledge.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

It also intrigues me that you specifically used the fractions 1/3 and 1/4. I suspect you’re imagining doing this with 3 or 4 alts. But what about players who have 20 alts? Would they only need 1/20th of the XP on each character? Where would you draw the line?

No, the divisors would be the same for all accounts. The whole point is to encourage people to play multiple alts at a time, so as to get the whole account fully-mastered, but not in such a boring fashion.

If you play through HoT on one character, it takes an abysmally long time to get the masteries. But, if you play several at a time, they come with less boring actions.

I came up with the idea while working my third character through VB. I was only there to get the hero points, because by that time I was sick and tired of everything in HoT. But, I noticed that I wasn’t gated on that character. (Should have been obvious, but until playing on an alt, I never noticed.)

Then it struck me: the reason I hated HoT so much is because I had to earn all those mastery points and XP on one character. But, I didn’t really have to; I was just taking my best-equipped and strongest character there.

So, the boredom caused by endlessly repeating mindless events, just to be able to advance the story one more episode, it just got to me. After nearly 11 years, I seriously considered giving up on the game.

But, that boredom was in many ways self-imposed. I could have done several characters, like I do everything in core. I just never thought of it. And, more to the point, lots of people probably never thought of it.

This idea gives incentive for players to do exactly what I didn’t do (and may have even enjoyed).

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Under the current system, a single mastery tier requires (A) amount of XP to fill. You are suggesting a system where, using alts, you want that same bar to fill in (A) / 3 or (A) / 4. Is my understanding correct?

Close, but not quite. Each alt would fill the bar only for himself. He would fill the bar for the account to 1/3 or 1/4 (whatever the divisor is).

Your post caught my eye for another idea, though: The alt gets the mastery at, say, 1/3, but the account bar doesn’t gain it all, gaining perhaps 1/2 or 3/4 of what the XP would have netted if not split.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Unfortunately, instead of calling this thread “suggestion: graduations into masteries” you put grind into the title, dooming it to perpetuate the grind discussion.

You’re probably correct, but I was just using ANet’s own words, in the hopes they would take notice.

Ryou.2398:

Trust me you don’t want easy progression you will get bored, it doesn’t matter how casual you are that isn’t rewarding in the end. Are you guys using the lfg tools? Are you asking map chat or guilds to help? People are really really helpful in the game give it a try.

If people were helpful, we wouldn’t need this. In HoT, it’s very rare that anybody responds to questions.

I’ve seen people advertising in LFG selling solo 100 runs in 25 minutes. Are they even legitimate? If so, are they right? Seems a little cheesy to me.

Don’t respect any statement on the forums to not play a certain class. All classes can do well.

Instead, learn your profession. Learn it well. Learn it inside and out.

Then, reevaluate as you climb the fractal ladder, because everything changes the higher you go. But, you’re adjusting and fine-tuning vs. remaking.

I agree on the penalty box: it’s horrible and needs to be gone, or at least timed. It’s worse than the Thaumanova fractal; at least there you can get rezzed (not many people do it, but at least it’s an option).

Anyhow, the grind discussion is, as I thought it would, destroying the thread. So, I will not post any more responses to such claims. Or, for that matter any statements not related to the subject.

The thread is about whether it would be a good idea to put graduations into masteries (especially HoT masteries) such that individual characters could progress faster than the account as a whole. The standard account mastery progression would not change at all.

General Health.9678:

… because there’s not that many people complaining about HoT mobs.

Technically, you are correct. However, that’s because droves of people have quit playing HoT or quit playing altogether. So, your statement doesn’t exactly bolster your argument.

General Health.9678:

The damage is not insane.

When a non-boss can one-hit or two-hit down a player using full ascended gear, that’s insane. And, HoT has many creatures that can do that.

ALL market economies rely upon some version of “flipping”. They have to. Flipping diminishes the gap between buy and sell orders. On the New York Stock Exchange as in Guild Wars.

In fact, I would argue that GW would do well to add even more options, like short-selling and options trading. But, those are probably too complicated for such a small economy.

Thanks!

What is the best way to farm shards (of essence)? Do they drop mostly from bosses, or regular creatures?

I don’t know why this is a problem. It WAS a problem, before +7 infusions, because a 5/5 was getting 10 points of value, and the next closest was only 5 points.

What ANet did is correct a huge gap between a 5 malign and a +5 AR/5 malign by allowing the AR side of the equation to go slightly higher.

IMO, they should never have allowed 5/5s in the game without other options between them and the rest of the available infusions.

So, frankly, you are whining about ANet correcting a huge problem that you happen to have had enough money to exploit.

Belenwyn.8674:

Arenanet should add 20-40 additional mastery points per region. This would reduce the grind in a dramatic way. Look at the hero points. The acquisitions is much more relaxed.

I agree and disagree. In my heart-of-hearts, I would all gating removed. However, I understand why they did it: to slow down progression long enough to experience the more complete story being told off of the storyline’s beaten trail.

Much of what they built is the multi-layered map, populated with stories that all relate to the main storyline, but not being required for it. This is the same with the core game, but many people skipped those entirely until they had completely forgotten about the story itself.

Go into Queensdale and run through a handful of events. About half of them relate in some way to the main storyline, but you would never know it unless you played in that area for a while. The same is true throughout core. There are even whole maps you would never get to playing just the storyline.

So, I’m not sure they need more. Perhaps they should add options. For example, I’m pretty sour on adventures, and many people have expressed a similar sentiment. I would prefer to never have to play them. But, that’s not an option if I want all the masteries. It would be nice to have other ways to earn those MPs.

But, that would cheapen the accomplishment for those who earned them.

So, I’m middle-of-the-road on this one.

Redfeather.6401:

I like the idea.

It’s like how the GW2 launcher works. You can start playing once your bar goes past the playable part, but if you wait for the bar to fill up completely then you won’t have to worry about downloading content as you play.

Fill your mastery xp bar to a point, and your character unlocks that mastery. Fill the bar up completely to unlock the mastery for your whole account. It’s so simple and easy.

Obviously, I agree.

However, I don’t think it’s quite that simple. There has to be a separate track for character vs. account XP progression. But, to work the way I’m proposing, each character’s XP gain not only counts for that character, but also for the whole account. I can imagine that that might not be an easy programming task.

And, I could see a considerable learning curve for new(er) players, because it’s not something they’re used to.

Shiyo.3578:

You don’t need more than like 20 mastery points total to play the game, which can be obtained by just following a zerg to events and doing them.

Zergs are for killing bosses. They shouldn’t be needed to progress through a storyline.

Payne.3184:

The Mastery Points are horrible for someone who can’t spend all day everyday playing the game, and/or abhors jumping puzzles… I haven’t been able to get even 1 of them in the last week… and advancing to a level of say… gliding… is impossible without them. The ones I can get i already have for the most part… My level of frustration is reaching quitting levels…

THAT is why I proposed this idea. My hope is that it would keep players from getting frustrated (because they could actually advance), while at the same time allowing the overall account stuff to stay at arm’s reach until intended by the authors.

Thaddeus.4891:

From what I can see, your problem seem to be about the storyline needing masteries than the grindiness of the masteries themselves.

YES! This is what I’ve been trying to say, so far not nearly clearly enough. Thank you!

My idea would remove that gating (mostly), but only toon-by-toon. You don’t get gliding account wide until you’ve earned the account-wide total. But, individual toons could progress.

Thank you, thank you!!!

Vayne.8563:

Exalted is needed. I reached it on day two. It’s the last one needed for the story. It’s one mastery point. I’m not sure how you can spend three months on it. If I played 15 minutes a day, I could probably have gotten it in one month.

Either you’re exaggerating or you’re just really bad at the game, but there’s no way in hell you should take 3 months to get gliding, mushroom jumping, updraft use and exalted law trained.

I’m not even sure how it’s possible.

Sorry, I miscommunicated again. I quit playing HoT for 3 months, due to the frustration of hitting another gate. The key word is “another”. There’s gate after gate after gate. After I hit each one, I got a little more frustrated than I did with the last one.

What changed was that I was playing another toon (a warrior), and berserker sounded interesting. But, I realized that I needed to play in HoT in order to get her enough Hero Points to max out berserker. So, I started playing her through VB.

But, then one day I realized that this second character had earned the next mastery, the one my first character needed. So, I went back to the first toon, and worked through some more of her storyline, now that that mastery gate had been cleared.

I did run into one more after that, but now I had a reasonable way to get it: simply skip to my other characters for a time, until THEY earned the mastery.

That’s when I had the idea I presented in this thread. Not all people play like I do, but dividing up the masteries (without changing the account gating) would allow characters to run through at something closer to their own pace. But, they would only be earning a fraction of the account-wide mastery totals.

General Health.9678:

Well aren’t you just playing it wrong?
Not just you but probably hundreds of people. If you “just” do story or “just” kill monsters or “just” use one toon, or focus in fact on any one particular thing, I can imagine at various points that you won’t have enough mastery xp, enough mastery points, enough hero points, enough waypoints, enough map completion.

Perhaps I am. But, it’s curious that some people argued (many times, in many threads) that they defeated in 2 days or a week or whatever. Their argument was that it can’t be grindy because they did it so quickly, but that’s not relevant here.

What is relevant is that they completed the story. And, without exception, every serious gamer I know (personally) who plays any MMO always goes through the new story content as soon as they get a chance. So, I don’t think it’s all that uncommon.

Or, perhaps I just have screwy friends.

AliamRationem.5172:

While you bring up some valid criticisms, I’m not sure how “normal” it is to attempt to play through the storyline from start to finish prior to exploring any of the jungle maps.

I signed up for GW2 several months after HoT released, so maybe I don’t get how this game is supposed to be played. But I was more interested in exploring the maps and unlocking my elite spec and masteries than pushing for the end of the storyline. When I completed the storyline, I had already met the mastery requirements. In fact, I wouldn’t have even realized this was an issue based on my experience.

There definitely are differing playing styles.

But, I don’t see how my idea changes anything for the person who wants to explore. They would be in exactly the same situation as now, except they would pick up masteries on their main character earlier.

The only thing affected by my idea, in this case, would be that the rest of the account wouldn’t be able to use the masteries until my explorer pushed the account over the normal XP barrier (exactly as he would now).

But, your point has shown me another flaw in my communication. I’m essentially proposing a two-track XP system. One track is per account, exactly as now. Nothing changes for the account. When the account crosses the magical barrier, the account earns the mastery.

The other track is on individual characters. That track would apply only to the individual character, but would progress further. He’s still earning XP towards the account-wide mastery, but those same XP also go into his character-only mastery track.

Does that make more sense?

Any item with a figure or picture of one of the professions, but with my face on it instead of a generic one. You know, a t-shirt with a necromancer, but with my mug on it.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

The OP’s argument is almost entirely based off the first mastery.

Incorrect. When I gave up trying for 3 months, the reason was yet another mastery needed (Nuhoch or exalted something or other). It happens throughout the process, at least as far as I’ve gotten so far. Who knows? Maybe I’ve hit the last one and just don’t know it. But, it’s awfully frustrating to just be getting into the story again and have to drop back to more random monster killing.

I should point out that I’m actually doing a version of this now. I have four toons going into VB just wandering about doing random stuff, plus the storyline missions. But, the XP they’re earning is advancing the track for my top toon, who happens to be in TD doing more mission steps.

I don’t LIKE it, because I have to wait with my advanced toon for the other two to do more work, but that’s a heck of a lot better than having to do it all on my wonder-toon.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

Wow. Two sentences in and already showing your bias. I like your honesty.

I don’t think the masteries are grindy – BUT I think your idea would make them so. I used my mesmer to do most of my masteries because he provided me with good mobility, stealth and a portal that provided insurance where I needed it.

If I had to complete the masteries your way (as I understand it) it would have been tedious, unenjoyable and very, very, very grindy.

EDIT: Added the clarification “(as I understand it)”. It’s possible I don’t understand your meaning, but as it reads I think you’re trying to provide a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. Do a few rounds of DS with food, crystals and other boosters. The XP flows in remarkably fast, even on the last tiers of the masteries.

My bias was intentionally shown. I have no intention of responding to any “it’s not grindy posts”, so why not say so up front? But, I didn’t make that clear, so I apologize if it caused any offense.

But, perhaps it is time for an example, because I don’t think I spoke clearly enough. All of the below is hypothetical. Also, I’m using round numbers; I can’t find a source for the exact mastery XP requirements as they progressed. I’ll be using the pronoun “I” as the player below.

This first example is how it is now.

I haven’t been in HoT yet. I have an account with Andy, Barb, and Chuck as my more interesting characters. But, Andy is top of the heap. He’s the guy I’m going to take into HoT, because I believe he’ll be the one I can perform the best with.

Further, I’ve been waiting for HoT. I want to know what happens to Mordremoth. I want to take him down, plain and simple.

So, my natural inclination is to start through the story with Andy. But, I’m almost immediately faced with a 250k mastery requirement. I remember well asking myself why on earth they stuck that in the way. But, I assumed it was some kind of tutorial process, so I wandered around until I had done enough to cross the line.

Then, I go back to the story. I get a couple more missions done, and once again I’m locked out of the story until I grind through now several hundred thousand more XP (than what the stories gave me, plus what I earned getting to the next story instance location).

That’s annoying. But, again, it’s new and I really want to know what happens next. So, I put up with it again.

So, I repeat the same thing, only with more dum-dum XP required this time.

I muddle through, but spending a smaller percent of my gaming time doing it. After all, I have other things I want to accomplish than just burn through XP.

Finally, I got through that, chose another mastery, and continue the story. Which is getting interesting, by the way.

But, of course THIS time, I spent quite a bit of time going through the missions, all the while going for the wrong mastery! They didn’t give me a heads-up: “by the way, you should choose XYZ mastery next because you’re going to need it.” So, now I not only have to earn a million XP, but I have to earn them ALL before I can continue. (This paragraph is NOT hypothetical — it’s the way it actually happened to me.)

At this point, the player running Andy through is getting very frustrated, and turns to the forums. There he learns that not only is the grind going to continue, it’s going to get MUCH worse!

It was about then that I got sick of HoT and personally gave up. It wasn’t worth it.

But, now lets see the new process.

Andy does the same thing through the first mastery, or maybe two. But, only Andy has earned these masteries, and he earned them in 1/3 of the time (XP). Barb and Chuck can’t use the actual mastery, because the account hasn’t earned enough XP yet.

But, Barb and Chuck, each being in a different order from Andy and each other (hey, this player likes completeness), they earn their own mastery usages. And, by the time they get to the same mission where Andy is, the whole account has earned the right to use the same mastery (or masteries).

Hopefully I’ve explained the idea enough to make things clearer. (I have a tendency to speak too much and say too little — maybe I should have been a politician!) But, I think it’s true both that this is less grindy. It cannot be more grindy, because you still have to earn the exact same totals for the account.

The only real difference is that one or two characters can progress through the story at their own pace, not blocked (as much) by artificial barriers to continuation. And, if the player really wants the masteries account-wide, he has to EARN them account-wide (or, more accurately, on three toons rather than one).

The only extra grind I see is for players who only have one toon they play. But, the grind they have to endure is exactly the same, so it’s not a change. They’re just given the opportunity to play more than one character while earning those XP.

NOTE: They COULD have done the same thing themselves: march three toons through HoT, each progressing to the same stopping-points. But, only when the third toon gets to that position will the account earn the actual mastery to move forward. Hence the partial-earning that my idea allows.

onevstheworld.2419:

@OP
Personally I rather they not use the system you’re suggesting because in essence you’re replacing a one-time XP “grind” with a repeated XP “grind”… plus they’ll have to pull resources from other areas to change the MP system. The current system is daunting in the beginning, but is less punishing in the long term.

Not really “replacing” them. Reducing the requirements to something more closely approximating what you earn while progressing through the storyline (only, more or less).

In other words, if all I do is take my best toon through the story, the grind wouldn’t be nearly as noticeable. But, I’m giving up the ability to have my other toons use those mastery until my account earns the original amounts.

NOTE: This is JUST for XP, not MPs. However, it may be that to balance it, they have to adjust the MP piece as well.

Healix.5819:

The trick about masteries is that they were never a grind when it came to playing through the game. They were however balanced on the assumption that the player would actually play through all the content.

I see what you’re saying, but it’s simply not true. There was a storyline mission early on that you could not do until you got the first mastery. Yeah, it was something like a tutorial, but then they continued the same tactic: require masteries in order to progress the storyline.

It IS grindy, and there ARE gaps.

What made me think of this idea, though, is going in with a second character (and a third). I realized that they were able to progress, unlike the first character I worked through it.

IF I had known, I might very well have run three characters through, using the XP from all three to meet the mastery requirements.

Now, that’s NOT normal for an MMO. Players generally take their best character into new content, because they know they’re going to need that character. But, in so doing, because of HoT’s gating behind masteries, we were locked out. I finally gave up; it was just too much of a grind. It was not at all fun, to me.

But, if they had allowed a slip-streamed variant like I’m proposing, people COULD play it through at their own pace. Those who wanted to run their best character through to the end could have done it, and without the grind otherwise required.

Now, what you propose (basically, doing all the content on map as you also do the storyline) works, and is probably how at least some people made it through.

But, it’s NOT normal. Not for Guild Wars 1 or 2, and probably not for any MMO. People want to see the new content in the story first and foremost.

My proposal (which admittedly needs work) would allow either mode of playing, without dumbing down the overall process.

This is an idea which could reduce the grindiness of HoT masteries. If you don’t think they’re grindy, don’t post.

One of the reasons it’s hard to get masteries is because you’re locked out, especially early on (gliding becomes required very early in VB). You have to earn those XP.

But, masteries are account-wide, which means they really deserve to have a high threshold of XP. If they were character-based, the XP requirement could be a lot lower.

The problem with that is that masteries by their nature deserve to be account-wide. If not, then much of their value is lost.

Why not split the difference? Allow each character to get his masteries at 1/3 of the total (or 1/4). But, give it to the rest of the account once the original XP requirement has been met, across the whole account.

The reason I think this fits the lore is the Pact. The Pact is three orders. In order to get several of the collections and achievements, you have to do them once on each of three characters (one in each order).

This idea would be basically the same thing, although as written, it doesn’t require 3 characters from the three orders.

Couldn’t ANet give us a feature in LFG: Looking for other small guilds to band together to xyz? Today. Maybe tomorrow.

Is it necessary to build a guild hall in order to start the scribe discipline?

I don’t think they take too long. However, as a 100% PvE player who dislikes most of HoT, there are some days when I just can’t get them done. If there’s an adventure, that’s out. I’ve never gotten past bronze, and even bronzed only in two of them.

JPs? I’m OK with them, although they aren’t much of a challenge. My opinion might change when Not So Secret shows up in the rotation, though.

My preference would be for them to split out HoT stuff from real GW2.

My biggest time sink these days is Fractals. MAN you can spend a lot of time there doing dailies, and I’m only capable of the low 60s. But, I enjoy Fractals so much I usually do those first.

So, I like them, at least mostly.

Kumion.7580:

This. Just having the almost-complete in-progess ones on top and the completed ones drop to the bottom would be good.

The worst part with the current system is that it’s not even the top scorers. It’s the top of their current tier, so some of them I have no interest in at all, but there they are.

Found the answer: you can’t forge exotics. ascended, either.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Incidentally, the time out is 20-30 seconds.

No, it’s randomized. I’ve had it in force for more than an hour, but other times for only a few seconds.

Actually, what they really need is a way to see all of the in-progress achievements above some selected level. A new interface, that is. Go into the interface, select a percentage, and everything above that pops up.

Well, IF it turns out that if exotics from sets 1, 2, or 3 CAN be forged, that would be too expensive. So, I’m giving up on this.

However, when I get my next exotic from a set, I’ll check to see if the forge will accept it. I’ll post my results on the Wiki.

Thanks for all the info!

Donari, you nailed it: we never killed a boss. I forgot that part of it.

Thanks!

I recently went to SW to find a Luminescent Pollen Cloud during the Breach. But, I couldn’t find one in the two places I went into.

Have they moved?

morrolan.9608:

I would ask why didn’t they realise this from the start? Why did it take the poor performance of HOT and the storm of criticism that followed it to make them change?

Because they listened to a vocal but very small minority as to what was needed in the game. They mistook “number of posts on reddit” for “number of players wanting these changes”.

None were bound. I bought one each of the four cheapest exotic ones. But, except for Mew, they didn’t even show as possible items.

Thanks!

(I have to make this longer because they won’t take short posts.)

IndigoSundown.5419:

• Too much CC

What is CC?

STIHL.2489:

Now, you might think that is contradictory, but it’s not at all. You can admire the quality and effort of something, without liking it, for example, it’s very easy to appreciate the rich creamy texture of a scoop of top quality vanilla ice cream, even if you really don’t like vanilla ice cream.

I agree with you. I also can see that they poured a lot of effort into it. It was quality work, in many respects.

But they made some major blunders, all of them political.

Am I correct that you can only forge minipets from sets (set 1, 2, and/or 3)? If not, can you receive a mini from a forging of minis NOT in sets?