Guild Wars 2

Brutal Arts.6307:

@Lightrayne If it allows you to run dungeons faster and with less repair fees than I’m sure it’s against Anet’s master plan.

Don’t you mean “If it allows you to run dungeons AND have fun, then I’m sure it’s against Anet’s master plan.”?

@ref You have to be more specific as I have no idea what you are talking about. I’m not actually suggesting that they give us all of our tokens up front, if that is what you are referring to. That was just sarcasm.

RamzaBehoulve.5640:

Makera.5723:

Twilight Arborea 2 runs in 2 diffrent modes:
forward+up 45 flowers around 1 hr of time
forward + forward 45 flowers 2 hr of time

….Thanks a lot for spending my time but with the second run i should of bought a piece of my set and guess what now i need to do 1 more run because of the system bugs. Can i have 15 flowers so i can buy my piece of armor?
Here is the ss of the second run.

You got 30 more tokens than you would have yesterday and you still manage to complain? Outstanding.

Ok, dude. Should we be content with bugged patches? Why not just leave it like it is but give us even more tokens per run so they equal out to what we would have gotten. Don’t you think it would be the same thing if they just gave us 180 tokens for the first run and let us do the others on good faith? I won’t be content just because they raised the amount just to get less than they are advertising. If you want that then don’t worry about it.

Just because making all paths equal is hard, does not mean they should go ahead and force us to do all of the not-so-fun content so that we may continue to be rewarded. I am NOT ok with a lazy developer philosophy such as that. What is it Anet? Do you want us to play with a func-centric view of the game, or a reward-centric? You treat us pretty badly in both respects.

Dokt.5729:

Solid changes with some buggy kinks. I believe it fair to require a full clear for rewards and for those who don’t have the foresight to set aside an allocated amount of time for a dungeon then perhaps they shouldn’t go on that run. I also don’t consider it a punishment for clearing to quickly. From all the complaints about difficulty I only see this affecting a minority and to that extent the minority has either grinder their share of items already and now it’s just a matter of vanity farming. Seriously , WTF. You bought the game and they are sculpting it away from the usual grind that is tagged with every mmo

How is it fair to force people to finish the dungeon to get any rewards? Shouldn’t it also be fair to not allocate any armor repair until you have completed the dungeon so you don’t have to pay for something that you weren’t rewarded for? So I shouldn’t be able to play the game content because I don’t let video games bog down my personal life? Real life > this game. There is no reason a company should punish players that don’t shut out real life while they play the game. This game has a very disgusting balance of casual and hardcore right now that really only appeals to the hardcore gamers.

@Hellkaiser You are definitely paraphrasing. If I buy the content, I want the ABILITY to play through the content with practice. I can’t/won’t look at my previous post but I still believe that you should get what you pay for. Yes, that is called entitlement. Is entitlement always bad? No. If you think it is then I would like to sell you a hamburger. What? You paid for the hamburger but I didn’t give you one? Oh well. Too bad because I decided not to give you your hamburger, and no, you aren’t getting your money back.

It all goes back to how they like to motivate their players. They don’t want us running the same paths over and over again. One way to fix that is to destroy any semblance of rewards the more you play it (what they are doing now). Another way is to make your other dungeon paths/dungeons more fun and worth playing (the smart way). Sure, you shouldn’t just leave one path as exploitable or even almost exploitable, but there needs to be balance between the dungeons if you want others to play them all. This all seems like really poor methods for solving their issues with their content.

What? There are many bugs in the elementalist. Why are those bugs of less importance than whatever bugs you are talking about? They have been doing a lot of balance. But for every other class (minus necro who could also use a lot of love) and not the elementalist. The elementalist has been nearly devoid of all updates and comments by the staff since the release of the game. Ever patch has about 2 updates for the elementalist and they are usually completely useless changes. I didn’t even know that I could fire those skills (in this patch) behind me. Why is that a bigger deal than putting more man-power behind fixing real issues with the class?

Gathnarius.9084:

I am personally fine with the new patch. I think there SHOULD be a reason to finish the dungeon. I play the game for a challenge, and i’m hard pressed to find a group willing to attempt to clear a dungeon, or ones that were clearing the dungeon wanted to use shortcuts to do so completely removing the challenge involved.

I agree with the difficulty in the dungeons, and I agree with how they are choosing to reward players.

It depresses me to see how far the genre has fallen when people die 2-3 times on a boss and want to give up. And all I hear is how it’s not their fault the dungeon is too hard, it’s Anets for making it too hard.

Where is the desire for self improvement? It seems to be non-existant. Having great stats and awesome looking armor means nothing if it takes no effort to obtain it, and no…doing speed run maggs is not effort, farming first 2 bosses in Arah is not effort.

I would like things to stay the way they are, minus a few bugs here and there that need fixed of course. But dungeon rewards, should be for completing the dungeon only, and for those that have to leave before the end…the dungeon will still be there tomorrow, you’re welcome to come back.

One thing I would like to know, is why don’t some spells work on bosses? Today was my first time attempt Ferrah line of CoF explore and on the final boss, I loaded “Arcane Thievery” and “Null Field” to attempt to remove some of his stacks of regen and neither of them worked on his boons. We were still able to kill him, I was just really disappointed that I loaded those two abilities and they didn’t even have any affect except clearing burning from me. I couldn’t even use Arcane Thievery to take might off of him.

The thing is, we can’t fix people leaving in the middle of dungeons. I’ve gone through many dungeons where I spent more than double the amount earned on armor repair (and that was before the bugged DR patch… I won’t even try it now that they are breaking their game) but I wouldn’t quit. But if someone does, now I’ve wasted my time and my money on repairs. And this isn’t just because pugs are unreliable. Things happen and sometimes people have to leave. In the event of just about anything real life, I will quit playing no matter where I am. It doesn’t have to be an emergency for me to choose RL over a dungeon group.

P.S. I play from my college. Every 6 hours I get kicked off of the internet and forced to relog. I HATE that stupid system but I have no control over it. I don’t usually remember when I last logged on and something like that is a huge scare when I have to complete this 2 hour dungeon (1/3 of my allotted time before relogging) and potentially get no rewards.

Yeah with this account bound change why won’t people just make the best dungeon running class into all of the dungeons…. We will see whole teams comprised of the same people and classes every time for all dungeons. I heard that is what happened in GW1 as well. My suggestion was, and still is, to make the tokens similar to money. A currency on the UI for that one character. It eliminates the need to fill your bank with character bound currency and it doesn’t break any semblance of logic in getting gear for players who haven’t even seen that dungeon. I could, essentially, give all of my level 1 alts a set of CoF gear to hold onto until level 80 in this case.

Magnetic grasp (was in bug thread), churning earth has a huge cast time which makes it a poor candidate for a D/D build (not bug, but still), lightning whip (was in bug thread), and burning speed? (the forward flame wallish spell) has issues at times. That is also not counting some of the minor bugs in our utility skills, nor does it account for the overall lack of synergy in our traits and the lackluster utility skills. The idea is to attunement switch a lot so that I can use all of my skills because most of them have decently long to very long cooldowns. In the event that a quarter of my skills can’t function properly it can break my build.

And if proper testing was going on, the patch to fix the patch wouldn’t have made it through to live without someone realizing that it didn’t even accomplish it’s primary goal…

Everybody keeps saying “what if the elementalist was this much more powerful, then he’d be too good” but that is because all of these comparisons are being made with a really skilled elementalist player against a very unskilled any other class. Yes, if you play the elementalist in some top tier fashion and it gets a buff, you will feel OP when comparing to lesser skilled players. Why should I have to fight people against lower skilled players than my own just so I can compete?

And I honestly think there needs to be a damage increase. Most of our skills are hard to hit with due to huge telegraphs and long animations but even after comboing them for about 6 seconds before actually hitting the enemy, you only do 50% of the damage as any other class. Low damage should never be paired with low survivability just because that class can support well. Doesn’t that throw elementalist into a niche? Wasn’t that what Anet said they didn’t want to do to any of their classes?

My hypothesis (and my reason) for voting WvWvW in a relatively high way is due to the sheer effectiveness of AoEs. It might be capped to 5 per AoE but that is a LOT more than only playing against 5 people in sPvP and all of them dodging out of them before they even start dealing damage.

I don’t really feel like re-listing every bug so here is a link to follow:
Bug Thread

And I’m very serious, they don’t test their patches. After at least one patch meant to fix their diminishing returns patch for dungeons and it is still broken. That patch was meant to fix it and it couldn’t do it…

I’m a level 80 and I recognize the faults in the late game stuff and I’m glad that that is a priority but I really hope that they can deal with more than one thing at a time. The elementalist has been an issue since the 3rd beta weekend and RTL hasn’t worked…. ever?…. yeah…. ever.

I’m getting one very strong feeling from every patch that Anet comes out with. 1 step forward 2 steps back.

@Ramza, did you pay for the game? If you didn’t good for you. But of course, people should ask politely… which is what people tried to do before… now we are the test dummies for every poor patch that comes out. Patience = very thin

Crater.1625:

DaedalusDragon.3754:

Every trash mob in all of them. How many of them involved a strategy that required more than everybody attacking at the same time and dodging attacks?

Quite a few encounters with non-boss Elite enemies are more easily won when you choose to attack different targets to split their focus and dilute incoming damage, choose to soak up attacks so that the rest of the party can focus a bunch of AoE on them, sometimes it’s more effective to ball up and defend/heal/buff/debuff through the attack, sometimes it’s more effective to drop back to ranged and kite/snipe, etc. All of this is dependent on your party composition/playstyle, what sort of enemies you’re fighting, and the specific situation from moment-to-moment, rather than a predefined “Do this, then they do this, and then you do that, and then you win” sort of ‘strategy’.

I mean, ranged focus-fire and kiting works, at least most of the time, and you can certainly use it as a crutch to make it through encounters without much risk of dying, as long as you don’t get overrun. But it’s rarely the most efficient or most effective way to clear an encounter. I think most fights with Elite enemies average out to something like 20-30 seconds per enemy, in most (good) groups I’ve played with – longer, if you’re on the backfoot, and shorter if you’re running like a well-oiled machine. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable amount of health for enemies to have in an Explorable dungeon.

The problem I see with that is that those are all “deal damage and don’t get hit” strategies. Those strategies are fine if they aren’t going for the challenging aspect and instead want their dungeons to be hard in a more simplistic fashion. I’m talking about strategies like separating enemies more effectively, LoS the enemies for some attacks, moving enemies into traps, focus shifting the enemy, and many others that don’t revolve around dealing damage for ten minutes and dodge attacks… that was pve up until that point, and I would like a more interesting challenge.

ref.8196:

Brutal Arts.6307:

Jasher.6580:

SinDantes.3417:

It wasn’t so much being skilled at the game that was letting people clear CoF Path 2 in 20 minutes. It was exploiting.

So because there is an exploitable loophole which they can’t seem to figure out how to “patch”… they lambaste you for being efficient? Right now, only the last chest drops tokens… I see no reason for them to keep this awful system of diminished returns on “speed clears”.

It’s an abominable system and it punishes good players which is short-sighted and pointless.

It reminds me of a certain stress system from a certain Korean MMO. In other words artificially lengthening the game by reducing rewards, punishing you for going to fast, and adding trash mobs that are tougher than bosses.

Rewards have been increased.

DaedalusDragon.3754:

There is no reason to punish people for clearing your content too fast. If you can’t design dungeons that take a decent amount of time while not using large hp pools as a crutch, then you should probably be replaced by a more competent designer.

I’ve done all of AC/CM/TA so far, which of these only uses large hp polls as a crutch?

Every trash mob in all of them. How many of them involved a strategy that required more than everybody attacking at the same time and dodging attacks?

There is no reason to punish people for clearing your content too fast. If you can’t design dungeons that take a decent amount of time while not using large hp pools as a crutch, then you should probably be replaced by a more competent designer.

I am perfectly capable of being patient, as I have been. But it is demoralizing to see all of these thrown together patches implemented without testing (see: EVERY dungeon patch yet) and still hear absolutely no word about the elementalists. As far as I can tell they have decided to just give up on the elementalist and just fix a few bugs here and there. Other classes are getting big changes in bugs and balancing but we aren’t getting anything. Right now it is either a HUGE patch for the elementalist which scares me as every patch so far has had a lot of bugs and a patch such as that, with everything implemented all at once, will just be more bug than class, or nothing at all. Honestly, I’m a patient person with things like this when the company keeps us in the loop which is something pre-release I was never afraid of but since then they haven’t made a peep. When did Anet stop being transparent?

One of their biggest issues is their lack of testing. The DR system hasn’t worked since it came out and even after “fixing” it, it still doesn’t work. I have coded a small amount in the past and I know that it isn’t easy finding errors even in 1,000 lines of code, none the less millions, but these half-kittened patches are really aggravating me.

And why are people being punished for doing exceptionally well in a dungeon? Why should there be some forced 30 minute or more rule? Who comes up with these design rules? My suggestion to this person is, make your dungeons better. Not harder with more hp and not some half-baked idea to force people to sit there and wait for this invisible 30 minute timer, but a more challenging experience with strategy.

1) You mentioned that “They also act as a deterrent to prolong the life of the game” which might be the most wrong statement in the history of statements. It is, in fact, the exact opposite.

Complaining isn’t a bad thing in itself. How else would a developer know about our feelings on the game unless everyone only ever had positive things to say? Nothing can be fixed if nobody ever complains.

These dungeons aren’t challenging, they are hard. They are hard because the only element in them that isn’t easy is that every enemy and their grandmothers have a lot of hp and can 1-hit kill you. I never feel like a proper strategy will help because the only strategy for any of these fights is to throw everything I have at them and try and not get hit too much.

On another note: I don’t appreciate having content in a game that I might not be able to complete due to straight up skill. If this was the real life and I hadn’t paid for this game, I’d just say “Oh well… guess I’m just not good enough to do that” but as I have paid for this product, it is a giant slap in the face when the developer says “l2p nub”. There is no content in this game that can prepare you for their absurd dungeon runs and even the first dungeon you do is stupid hard with no learning aspect except beating your head against the enemies until they die.

All of those “broken” things have easy work arounds…. do something else. I was really hoping not to have to do that on with my favorite class. And there are a LOT of bugged skills. To the point that it is almost broken. That is especially true if you also factor in our overall UP state. RTL, literally, stuns myself. That in itself destroys any dagger off-hand build because we have to attunement dance and use all of our skills and that one is one of our most useful skills with dagger off-hand.

Forum bug can’t edit:

And just because some people can play the class at a decent level, does not mean that it isn’t broken. I once had an iPhone that was broken but it still had a backlight.

Does anybody ever stop and think “why is everybody on this forum whining harder?” Nobody can ever look past their own ego and see that there might be a reason for this. I’m not asking them to stop working on other issues, but as a company (and as a human being) it is MUCH smarter to fix the things that are most broken first… the elementalist in this case. I dislike it when the only defense people have for what is going on is “just wait”. It isn’t a defense and it doesn’t even address the issues. It is a more common statement coming from somebody who isn’t being objective and MIGHT be of a fanboy mentality (I am not calling you a fanboy and in fact I dislike using that word at all). What reasons are there that they don’t make the elementalist a fully working class before they work on minor issues/balancing on other classes? Nothing else demands the attention more than a broken class.

lolololololol

Why lower it from 30 tokens at all? It is a MUCH bigger grind than it was two weeks ago. And now we don’t get ANYTHING unless we can complete it? Are you just a troll?! These are dreadful changes and I can’t help but feel like it is just some huge joke to you guys. Until all of the dungeon paths are balanced and not giant zergfests on the part of the mobs, there will be no reason to accomplish all of the dungeon paths and strongarming us into doing them all by punishing us for doing one more than once per day is NOT THE WAY TO DO IT!

I realize that it is probably harder but don’t we deserve more attention? I bet that sounds childish but our class has the most bugs, next to necro (which it looks like they actually care about). Every patch so far has been a huge let down for the elementalists. The only changes they ever make make us weaker. Granted, they are bug fixes, but they only make us less effective; even if only because the bug helped us. Fixing a lot of the elementalist all at once is a noble notion but what about the months until then? Do they want people to stop playing elementalists? A little love would be much appreciated Anet.

Also, it is very hard for me to wait for every patch as that is what I have been doing and I’ve been let down each time.

Hey, at least you get 10 every 10 days. The elementalist got 2 lol. Nah, good for you guys. We eles and necros have to stick together as the bugged classes from hell.

So… another patch down and another skip on any real problems. The sad part is that they fixed Lightning Leap for the Lightning Hammer but we still can’t use Ride The Lightning. What made Heartseeker more important than RTL? Was it not useful enough already?

I actually find it funny that the only bugs that they are fixing for the elementalists are ones that hurt us. I realize that you shouldn’t be able to fire skills behind you, but who was really complaining about this? Was their a whole subforum out there filled with people complaining that they were tired of getting hit with minimal damage from these spells as they were running away?

Cool, now I can use my elemental pet more often.

Can we get an update Anet on the state of the elementalist and what your opinion on it is? Should I give up on any real bug fixes for us? How about balancing for us? I don’t think it is asking much for just some information.

I feel like the patch notes should go up the same time as the patch… or before…. but they never do.

I like the idea of cosmetic ahievment armor.

I love watching this funny joke quickly turn into hate for other games. What does it even have to do with the OP? Who cares about WoW? It reminds me of all of the children who pick on the person they have a crush on. Is that what is going on here? Secret WoW love?

I’m quitting too. Homework.

For a while I just gave up and moved on to a guardian but I really miss the gameplay of the elementalist. I’m trying to run a D/D build as I hadn’t really put much effort into trying it before but I’m coming up with the same problems I had before. If I run with enough survivability to play in Orr, I do 500 damage crits in fire. If I run with damage I just die in one hit. I can’t seem to find that great mix either. This just keeps confirming that the ele is NOT in a good place right now. It also didn’t help that every other skill I used would bug out. AND THEN it was also lagging so it felt even worse. I’d post my build but I don’t feel very confident in D/D builds as they are new so I won’t subject myself to the scrutiny of others. What tips do you have?

flanboys
that is all

Or it would be if that wouldn’t result in yet another infraction…. I left to make a trip to a convenience store. I really needed some “muddy buddies”… or “puppy chow” as others call it… BTW, this isn’t a drug. It is a snack food….

It’s all good. I’m sorry you feel that you wasted your money. Not every game is for everybody. I’m having issues with GW2 right now but I’m just waiting for a lot of fixes. I tried playing rift again (played it a lot some time ago) but I hated going back to a button rotation heavy game. I also felt bad when I accidentally stole a kill….

There is a difference between wanting the class fixed and wanting it to be easier. I like the challenge but I want to be rewarded for working harder. I do NOT want to work harder and still be below average in a team.

See, we disagree on this point. We have a lot of initial options but those quickly go away with incredibly long cooldowns. We are further met with long cast times and INCREDIBLY long animations. THEN we must account for the massive telegraph that our skills give out long before the skill actually hits (ummmm dragon tooth… also, only a problem in any pvp).

Also, you later mention that each class can do something. “Guardians can support, necros can survive…” While this is true, they can also do a lot of other things. Guardians can support, they can dps, they can survive, and they can cc. Necros can survive, dps (conditions), and condition removal out the wazoo (also note: necros are also very messed up). Thieves can spike and dps… I know very little about the thieves but they can do anything the ele can do minus aoe and support which is greatly made up for in their MASSIVE damage. Warriors can support, damage (spike and condition), survive MUCH better than an ele, and do great ranged. So why are elementalists so bad? It is because they can do the same things other classes can do but they have to work harder and in general, their results are much less than any other class.

I would like to see more topics like this. This is fun =)

Where are we without reason and logic? I’ve never played WoW…. are you being sarcastic…. I’m a little confused by your post.

And Amnon…. I hadn’t meant to include you. Your only post in this topic befuddles me.

In that case then the same could be said of Tyria and those ancient beings might have randomly called their dirt “earth” as well but the difference lies in who named the planet. I’m sure there is some infinite diverging universes theory out there that points to this as well.

Kaine.3501:

Amnon.4769:

DaedalusDragon.3754:

Depends on what came first. The name for dirt and the like, or the name for the planet on which we preside?

Logically, I’d imagine the name for dirt would come first. Cavemen saw dirt long before they knew what continents or planets were.

So the cavemen named the dirt earth?

Why not?

I’m sure you can find something but you won’t have the resources that other classes have (check their forums) until more people who like competitive play can fairly play the elementalist because it isn’t people like me, casually playing an elementalist, who makes the guides; it is usually the more hardcore players. But of course that is all conjecture. I have no facts to prove that.

Depends on what came first. The name for dirt and the like, or the name for the planet on which we preside?

If it wasn’t for the forum bugs I would have quoted… but whatever.

@Anlyon
I definitely see what you are saying. My only problem is, if I’m going to put over 300 hours into something (especially when half of it is sPvP which is a much better learning environment) then I really don’t want to be only as capable as the other classes who have put much less time into their class.

No word on elementalists =(

Because the thief just sat there taking any damage the elementalist threw at it until they weren’t protected anymore and then continued heartseeker…. I mean really….. it isn’t hard to beat an elementalist even if they have all of those shields. Just auto-attack and the elementalist will die pretty easily. If they don’t die that easily then you certainly don’t have to worry about them as their damage output will be next to zero.

I would definitely like to see these become another UI currency similar to gold/silver/copper and karma.

Elric of Grans.7684:

Try playing on Sea of Sorrows (US, but mostly Aussies). I keep to guild chat, because the public chat is all racist, misogynistic and extremely immature. The last thing I want to do is read the garbage spewed by middle-class, white, male teenagers.

I don’t know if “middle class, white, male teenagers” is a fair response to this… in fact it is just more bigotry/prejudice to argue against prejudice.

If somebody wants to speak their language in the game, then go ahead. I see no problem AT ALL with letting other people speak in whatever form they want. It obviously doesn’t concern me or if it does then they will probably try to whisper me in which case I can politely tell them that I don’t understand them the best way I can, in english.

I feel like the WoW bashing needs to stop. It just keeps dragging on the bad arguments. I’m quite certain that there are a LOT of people that played WoW and came here and are very nice. People just think that WoW was/is a fad and people hate that…. blah blah blah… so everybody just hates on it. I dislike WoW as a game and only ever played 5 minutes of it but I don’t judge others based on their game history.

I really hope there is a big patch tomorrow night. It would really go a long way in stabilizing the people (in-game and in the forum) and the game. No matter what anybody says, nobody should want a game with so few people playing it. Expansions aren’t made for games that have small player bases due to risk/cost.

I’m all for proving that the ele is UP, but this is just asking for trouble.

Agemnon and Amnon…. coincidence?

Anyways. OP, there are a lot of useless skills. You’ll have to be more specific…. assuming you have some constructive ideas to go along with it. Otherwise, no thank you.

I feel that the fact that this issue has risen so much in prominence and that it was discussed so heavily to begin with means that it is in need of some serious work. I believe that every person should be able to play each class equally. There is no class that Anet specifically designed for players who are “elite” or better than everybody else. Doing that would be like shooting yourself PR wise. If they ever come out and say that the elementalist was really only meant for the cream of the crop humans, I will literally demand a refund and take any legal actions that I can. It is among the highest of insults.

And to the people who believe this class should be just for the best of the best. You need to find something else to raise your self-esteem. You are like a bully who picks on others because you are bigger than them. You only want it to stay the same because you finally found something you are good at.

And please don’t mistake people that I have been talking about with people who want the elementalist to stay the same for legitimate reasons. I just can’t stand those that believe only the best people were meant to play the elementalist.

To be fair, a lot of games have dungeon finders. I think it would be a great addition. If you want a great community and to form bonds with people then go ahead and make the effort. Why should overall dungeoning be hard to start just so people can claim it is some form of socializing? Talk when you get into the dungeon or go in with friends. Right now the dungeons are at the point that you almost can’t do them unless you are in a guild and a LFG system would make it much better.

I’m honestly confused how people see this as hurting the community. Can someone try to enlighten me?

And one more thing, support experience is not necessary. Just giving out support exp shows an interest in the “holy trinity” because as it is every class can attack and heal and support. If you aren’t getting enough experience then try tagging enemies. I doubt that you have enough skills to constantly support other players without doing damage as I have a level 80 elementalist and even with twice the skills I’m always doing damage on the side. Of course, that is the one thing that elementalists are good at; tagging enemies for experience. If they gave support experience it would force people to run support/damage hybrid builds just to keep up with experience because without it they will just level slower. This is one point you won’t change my mind on. In other games it is a great addition but in this one, where you can take on any role you want to, it only pigeonholes builds.

I imagine it is because anybody that would usually put that much effort or thought into a guide, or just about any information, is playing other, more competitive, classes. If/when Anet fixes the elementalist you will begin seeing more information.

BTW, I used to watch ToT as well but then they moved servers and what not. It just kinda rubbed me the wrong way as nobody that signed up for the mailing list was even notified.