Guild Wars 2

Hey Coloxeus, glad to see you making vids again. Great stuff!

Shirlias.8104:

There’s no skill at all.
Before hot was about skill, now it’s a slaughtering.

If you think thief actually can trade and have something to do except what i wrote before, you are welcome.

I would like to dare and play like before hot, but due to new classes, thief simply can’t.

Well, feel free to check out the proof. Here’s a guy queueing games as Legendary X3 playing a thief.
http://www.twitch.tv/sindrenerr

It’s not ideal for tournaments, but the class works when you play it right. Hell, I made it to diamond as D/P thief with a pretty casual schedule and a whole lot less skill than this guy.

Survival isn’t just about how much damage you can take before you die. It’s also about how much you can straight up avoid. That’s why thieves have more evades, blinks, and stealth than any other class.

This means you have a high skill floor active defense that requires you to anticipate and actively make decisions to keep damage from hitting you and yea, it’s unforgiving if you miss a dodge/blind/stealth, but that’s just the nature of the class. It’s much different from other classes that can face tank until their passive invuln procs, but it’s not inherently worse.

aktharr.2389:

Dahkeus.8243:

aktharr.2389:

OH MY GOSH GUYS YOU ARENT LISTENING. Pay-To-Win was just a title thing i came up with because i thought in some aspect it was.

WHAT I really was trying to say was they need to balance the powers of the expansion players and the powers of regular player by either boosting or nerfing some of the classes

So, you made a click bait thread and now you wanna get upset that you have people who came to this thread with their opinions formed before they read a single word?

Welcome to the internet.

no i didn’t make a click bait thread. its just a title because i thought it was in some way pay-to-win. but people are focusing more on the definition of “pay2win” than actually reading the description which i clearly stated was about paid players making pvp unbalanced

Pay2win is one of the most controversial topics for any MMO. You’re either incredibly naive or you tried to use the controversial nature of this to get attention to your semi-related post.

Fluffball.8307:

Dahkeus.8243:

Eh, honestly, I think that’s more of the meta than matchmaking. First team to win the big teamfights usually wins by a good margin.

I half agree. I don’t think it matters what the meta is, if you lose members in the opening fight, there is little chance of a PUG reorganizing themselves and not just stagger-feeding themselves to the other team. Bunkers or DPS, you’re going to lose a 5v3 with two people on respawn at all times.

The bunker meta kinda exaggerates it. Point turnover is much slower, which puts a bigger sway in point accumulation and teams that get a point in their favor first can sit on it for a long time, even if they do end up in a losing fight.

Eh, honestly, I think that’s more of the meta than matchmaking. First team to win the big teamfights usually wins by a good margin.

Talek.6795:

I’am sorry for destroying that topic but is that the guy, who tried to advertise his stream using orng title and girl’s photo for attraction?

And are guys you srsly trying to chat with him?

Don’t apologize, lol. This topic has been a mess for a long time and yea, he’s pretty desperate for attention. The link to Sindrenerr’s stream was probably the best thing to come of it though.

aktharr.2389:

OH MY GOSH GUYS YOU ARENT LISTENING. Pay-To-Win was just a title thing i came up with because i thought in some aspect it was.

WHAT I really was trying to say was they need to balance the powers of the expansion players and the powers of regular player by either boosting or nerfing some of the classes

So, you made a click bait thread and now you wanna get upset that you have people who came to this thread with their opinions formed before they read a single word?

Welcome to the internet.

Was wondering how long until someone brought that here from Reddit. =P

But ya, with all the “peasants and kings” rhetoric, this deserves to get some good airtime.

How about this:

If it’s PvE, take CS. If it’s PvP, take DA.

There’s so much talk about theorycraft of dps from these lines, it’s like people think this sort of stuff happens in a vacuum.

CS is weak in PvP for the same reason you take Air and Fire instead of Force sigil. Thieves excel because of burst damage in +1 encounters, not sustained dps in long fights.

Mortifer.2946:

spoj.9672:

As a student you should have plenty of time to do all that.

It is a bit different at this moment of my life. Gotta start looking for a job, read stuff for my master’s thesis, learn a new language to be able to communicate with my girlfriend’s parents, and of course there are like 6 courses I have to take. But I agree, that in general, it isn’t hard to play during university/college life

Oh, a master’s student? Yea, I could definitely see you having less time.

Yea, I really miss the spectator setup that GW1 had. Too bad that’s not possible. =/

Cynz.9437:

Dahkeus.8243:

Eh, I played D/P thief up through diamond and never really found it to be that much of an issue.

Oh, I got revealed? Let me just use one of my many, many escape skills to get out of range or line of sight until the revealed is gone.

if they have 1 engi yeah, but if they have multiple engis and revs…. gl

Maybe your experience is different than mine. I never once found this that frustrating, even against teams with multiple revs and engis. Every time I got hit by revealed it sucked, but it was a pretty minor annoyance and seldom made a big difference on a fight.

Chaith.8256:

I cleared Legend solo queuing without HoT with a high win rate (73-76%). Some core gw2 builds really counter the commonly used professions in people stack for leagues.

But Chaithh! That can’t be possible! That’s not what MetaBattle says! =P

Eh, I played D/P thief up through diamond and never really found it to be that much of an issue.

Oh, I got revealed? Let me just use one of my many, many escape skills to get out of range or line of sight until the revealed is gone.

Anyone got the dead horse gif?

Ok, so sorry if I came across as rash or harsh with what I said. Let me clarify:

You paid money to play this game. You may want it to be many things, but at the end of the day, GW2 is GW2. What you bought is what you bought. Ask yourself why you bought this game. If you are like most people, you bought it for the enjoyment, for the sense of achievement, for the sense of exploration, for the empowerment that comes from playing an avatar that blows things up at a whim, etc.

However, if this game is making you so upset that you’re feeling physically sick, you may do well to ask yourself if this is still an experience you would pay for.

That doesn’t mean that you should quit at the first sign of a bad experience, but you may want to adjust your expectations and your aims so that you handle this game in a way so that you gain all of those great things you wanted when you tossed down your credit card info, but don’t lose yourself so that you start getting hurt from a game world.

And if you haven’t missed a single day of playing and have played so much that you have 23k AP, you may not really be giving real life precedence. I’m not saying that you skipped your mother’s funeral to get your daily or anything. Hell, maybe you do have a lifestyle with enough free time to play every single day and get all those achievements. However, there may be other things outside this game that may be good for you so that when something goes wrong with this game, you can shrug it off and move on instead of feeling physically sick.

Not sure what you’re going through, but the shadow step mechanic is much, much better than at release.

And yea, it’s frustrating to run into glitches with shadowstepping, but it’s pretty much an inherently glitchy mechanic in every MMO out there, so there’s no sense getting all up in arms about it. The issue is with how terrains are built, not necessarily the shadow step mechanic itself.

Whoa, take a step back from the computer and get some perspective on your life, lol.

spoj.9672:

As a student you should have plenty of time to do all that.

I wish I had the time I did back when I was in college, lol. School’s different for everyone though.

Eh, it was rocky, just as I pretty much expected for the first season of the league. The lack of balance patch closer to before the start was my biggest concern. This meta is pretty terrible and bunker mesmers are still ridiculous.

However, I still made it to diamond playing D/P thief without cheesing the matchmaking system, and considering the time investment I had to do this, I’m happy. My standards for next season will be much higher though,

Regon Phoenix.8215:

Why other classes starts pvp games at 100% of their power, but necromancer starts with 0 life force?

Just like warriors who start at full adrenaline, right?

Oh wait…

Mortifer.2946:

Coulter.2315:

Mortifer.2946:

Something needs to be changed, and it is ArenaNet’s job to figure it out. I didn’t pay 50€ for dragonhunter and raids just to find out I cannot go there with him.

AKA: ALL new specialisations should have a role in raids.

We’ve cleared the Raid with a DH every week for weeks now, its really not that big a deal.

I know, but the problem is, I’m not a part of any community in GW2. I am in guilds but I didn’t create real gaming friendships. Thus, even when I meet some new people willing to take me to raid with them, it is completely understandable that they don’t want to take in guardian, because they can take burnzerker and chrono can tank instead. Just because they don’t feel like lowering party’s DPS just to accommodate some stranger. But I agree, there are people who don’t mind guardian. It is just sad to see all the negativity in Pugs/ semi-pug parties.

So…join a guild. I mean there’s no point complaining if your only obstacle is yourself.

Solo Queued to Diamond as D/P thief. If there was another thief on the team, I swapped to druid.

That music, lol.

But good gameplay. Interesting to see D/P with bound. So used to using dash, but I guess you don’t really need that for duels.

And a lot of the people who reached diamond/legendary decided to be happy with that achievement, quit PvP for the season, and moved on to other aspects of the game.

Mortifer.2946:

Something needs to be changed, and it is ArenaNet’s job to figure it out. I didn’t pay 50€ for dragonhunter and raids just to find out I cannot go there with him.

AKA: ALL new specialisations should have a role in raids.

You know…you CAN go there with them. Just because they’re not meta doesn’t mean you can’t clear the raid with one. Hell, VG was killed with a group of 10 guardians.

So yes, the situations not ideal, but it’s not enough to throw a pity party.

Yea, that’s not how it works. You either had bad luck or you have very biased perception.

Losing streaks happen. Take a break and come back later if thats the case.

Jana.6831:

AsurasRCute.4136:

It’s always the problem with universal generalisations; folks think that the gripe they’re making about a specific type of Thief in a specific game mode applies across the board – and all Thieves end up catching the flak.

You might not need more AA damage but any Thief who runs a pistol main hand does (not that it looks like they’re going to get one…), and those traits might be useless to you but not everybody else (eg I use Flawless Strike and, to me, Signets of Power is completely useless… but I don’t suggest to get rid of it because of that…).

Re: The inevitable nerfs incoming down the line: I’m thinking that all the buffs being given now will manage to completely miss my (vanilla P/P) main, so she won’t benefit at all. Next balance patch after that will have ‘All Thieves’ nerfs to reduce the buffs that only some of them are getting now; and my main will end up even worse than she is now.

Didn’t pistol just get more damage? What was wrong with that?

Nope. Sword, dagger, and staff got more damage, but pistol (which is already far behind) got no damage boost.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Dahkeus.8243:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Dahkeus.8243:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Dahkeus.8243:

As for Venom Share, I’d say it’s viable to some extent. When you start getting to the higher leagues, however, it won’t work as well. Good players will know to focus venom thieves and since you have to load your utility bar with with venoms and offensive tools, you just don’t have the escape potential that something like a D/P thief would. However, until you get focused, it’ll feel godlike with all the immobs and condis that you can share.

^this. If your team is willing to take that risk, then the build is fine. IMO, you’re sacrificing a lot of good traits and utility skills just to make Venom share work.

Holy crap…did we just agree on something? =P

Yeah, I think we did.

This must mean that venoms will turn out to be OP/meta and we’ll both be wrong, haha!

They’ve been trying to make this venom to work and it will never happen unless they redesign all venoms.

Yea, it’s not a true patch unless it’s got a useless buff to venoms, lol.

kuritsutian.2987:

What is the best golem to practice/simulate a door breaker, archer or even heroes in the pvp lobby? if one wants to test a build to deal with them, what options do we have?

If you just want to practice against moving targets, you could work on the moving golem. He’s faster, but is about on par with skritt when they have swiftness I think.

Or, if you could get access to a custom arena, you could hop in with a friend and have them spawn doorbreakers for you.

Sadly, tonics don’t work in PvP. =P

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Dahkeus.8243:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Dahkeus.8243:

As for Venom Share, I’d say it’s viable to some extent. When you start getting to the higher leagues, however, it won’t work as well. Good players will know to focus venom thieves and since you have to load your utility bar with with venoms and offensive tools, you just don’t have the escape potential that something like a D/P thief would. However, until you get focused, it’ll feel godlike with all the immobs and condis that you can share.

^this. If your team is willing to take that risk, then the build is fine. IMO, you’re sacrificing a lot of good traits and utility skills just to make Venom share work.

Holy crap…did we just agree on something? =P

Yeah, I think we did.

This must mean that venoms will turn out to be OP/meta and we’ll both be wrong, haha!

Mortifer.2946:

And what about guardians?

cry

Well…let’s look at the checklist and see where they fit in:

• Heavy might stacking? Nope, Heralds and PS war wins out here.
• Profession-unique damage boost? Nope, still nothing here yet.
• Ability to play healer? Well, not really and a druid could do it while bringing damage boosts at the same time.
• High personal dps compared to other professions? Nope, not really.
• Efficient tank build? Yea, but other classes can tank as well while also bringing big dps or helpful utility.

So, I guess until there’s a need for aegis and reflects, we probably won’t see Guards in the raid meta. Well, unless there’s something else in the patch notes that they haven’t discussed yet. =/

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Dahkeus.8243:

As for Venom Share, I’d say it’s viable to some extent. When you start getting to the higher leagues, however, it won’t work as well. Good players will know to focus venom thieves and since you have to load your utility bar with with venoms and offensive tools, you just don’t have the escape potential that something like a D/P thief would. However, until you get focused, it’ll feel godlike with all the immobs and condis that you can share.

^this. If your team is willing to take that risk, then the build is fine. IMO, you’re sacrificing a lot of good traits and utility skills just to make Venom share work.

Holy crap…did we just agree on something? =P

Dinosaurs.8674:

Shovel Face.4512:

NoTrigger.8396:

TexZero.7910:

Rev will still be viable (borderline optimal)

rev will be stronger than before.

How? Their sword auto is getting nerfed

The current highest personal dps classes for the raid are revenant, tempest, and condi warrior. Revenant might be getting their sword auto nerfed, but tempest and condi war (and many other classes) are getting their alacrity nerfed, which likely will amount to a similar dps loss. Additionally, Revenant’s sword 2 is getting a pretty decent buff, as it will be extremely easy to hit any of the current raid bosses with all three projectiles every time.

So even if Revenants deal less damage than before overall, relative to most other classes they will stay about the same (or maybe get better). And all this ignores the fact that their party buffs are extremely good (on demand regen, fury, might, boon duration, protection for five people; ferocity buff for five people).

I would guess that a typical build will look something like this:

1 Druid
1 Chrono
2 PS Warrior
2-4 Revenant
2-4 Tempest (Staff vs Fresh Air depends on fight and group needs)
0-3 Condi Engineer
0-2 Thief (Power)

Obviously any of the fights could be and currently are completed with the classes I didn’t list here (in fact if Sabetha’s flak gets fixed then two condi necros would be meta in that fight). But pug groups tend to want the current “best” comp and I would guess that it will gravitate towards something like this.

And of course, a lot of what becomes the new meta comps depends on the specifics of the patch. It’s possible that the new King of Fires will actually be really good, and condi wars will just switch to rune of balthazar or nightmare or something and get spammed fire auras by 4 tempests. It depends on the implementation of the trait. Similarly, the usefulness of Thieves depends a lot on exactly how much damage they gained, because they provide zero in the way of party buffs which really makes them only interchangeable with tempests in a group comp.

This looks pretty reasonable, although I’m not sure the thief changes will make them that valuable.

Warriors still seem to be the wild card. I’m sure we’ll see Scorched Earth nerfed, but between the changes to King of Fires and the vague promise of damage increases and removal of aftercasts, it’s possible that there will be other pure dps builds (condi or power) that will make warriors worth stacking, even after you have PS covered. Hell, with the adrenal changes, maybe rifle dps will be worthwhile…

@ Spoj: I still wouldn’t expect to see a thief tank simply because of how much they move during evades and weakening strike.

Sadrien.3470:

Urejt.5648:

oh boys. Venom share builds were not viable to the present day, becouse they were burst builds which doesnt work in bunker meta. However, developers get rid of most bunker amuls! there is some room, especiallt basilisk is unblockable. Extremely good tool to destory revenant shield.

For now remember: thief is extremely weak in pvp. If u play thief in ranked u are griefing, losing game fomr the start.

Lol… that’s why sind reached legendary with only thief, same with Kerrigan, etc… thief is only bad if your bad at thief.

Legendary X3 last I checked.

You can do just fine playing a thief in ranked, but you have a bit less wiggle room in build/playstyle. Sind runs D/P in a decap/+1 role which can work very well. Helseth also plays a shatter mes performing the same role and I’d say that both builds are pretty similar in strength. Check out the link below for Sind’s channel. I think this guy is pretty much the best thief to learn from currently.

http://www.twitch.tv/sindrenerr

As for Venom Share, I’d say it’s viable to some extent. When you start getting to the higher leagues, however, it won’t work as well. Good players will know to focus venom thieves and since you have to load your utility bar with with venoms and offensive tools, you just don’t have the escape potential that something like a D/P thief would. However, until you get focused, it’ll feel godlike with all the immobs and condis that you can share.

If you do decide to go venom, I’d suggest considering focusing on Stronghold more than Conquest as the high-CC nature of that build is a bit better suited to that gametype. The high poison up time is also good for preventing enemies from healing NPCs.

Eh, I think a lot of it is just from the mesmer community. The bunk build deserved to get destroyed, but it does seem like mesmers are in a precarious spot to have any other strong build. I’d say that shatter is already about on par with a thief in that it can work well, but it requires a +1/decap mindset and not a 1v1, jump into big teamfight mindset. However, the alacrity/quickness stomp nerfs will hit that build too, so it’s looking like thieves will likely be the better roamer in a meta where roamers will be more useful.

But I agree, the BV buffs are relatively meaningless. IS is still the better elite in the right hands.

The new acro passive trait and BV change are really more of a quality-of-life change for new thieves in that they’ll make it easier to learn playing the class. Passive evade will help people getting used to being squishy and the BV change will help players land strikes when they’re not as adept at watching for blocks.

I could be wrong, but I don’t expect high end play to use either of these.

Eh, caps doesn’t make it so.

Thief damage is actually a good ways behind many other classes in PvE. Yes, you could make a thief worth taking in a raid by giving them some sort of additional external utility, but it’s arguable that we already have that with venoms.

However, more dps can make thieves viable in PvE. This has happened in dungeon metas before where you bring your damage buffing classes (warriors with banners, ranger with spotter/frost spirit, etc.) and then you bring a thief with higher personal dps to take advantage of those damage buffs.

In PvP, I honestly think that we have about all the tools we need and are only held back by the power creep and bunker meta from HoT, but with the nerfs other classes are getting, I expect we’ll be in a better place. The AA damage will help, but won’t make a huge change.

Yea, reveal isn’t needed. You can counter any other class in stealth by just sitting in stealth longer. Sneak gyro’s the one exception, but you can pretty much see where they are with that thing anyways and you can still counter by using shortbow and deflecting shots off the gyro to hit the scrapper.

No need to fix what’s not broken.

Yea, leave this as is. Players who are talented with multiple classes should get rewarded for that. There’s no grind restriction keeping anyone from doing this since you can level any new character to level 2, step into the mists, and pick whatever build/gear you want.

Basically, it’s the choice between rewarding someone based on skill or RNG.

Not even sure where to start on this post…

The only class that has stealth that’s nearly as useful as thief stealth is Engi with Stealth Gyro. In PvE, it’s clearly superior. In PvP, it’s roughly equivalent for starting a match with an organized group (where the other team knows your stealthed, but doesn’t know your split due to stealth). In team fights, it’s a real nuisance to counter. However, you can’t roam the map undetected like a thief can.

It’s getting a fair nerf.

As for why we have to spend so many resources for stealth? Seems pretty obvious. We’re the only class that gets additional mechanics from stealth (backstab and such).

online.1278:

nah, 5 stats is just way too much.

Best Regards, =)

+1 on this. Not only does it just add in too many unnecessary options, but it also runs the risk of making something too much like celestial all over again.

NeXeD.3042:

Dahkeus.8243:

OP: Totally agreed. There’s a sense of entitlement that’s kinda spun out of control. Here’s my theory:

So, when MMOs first really exploded and became mainstream, WoW was the big fish. Being the massive MMO that it was, it had a lot of different playerbases that it catered to. These players, who were initially amazed at what was possible in MMOs began to dream up of more stuff they wanted to see. As WoW expanded, players got more of this, but then more and more big companies started to give players what they wanted in different areas.

Was WoW’s story not done well enough? SWTOR swept in and did better.
Was WoW’s combat too slow and tab-targetted for your taste? Tera made amazing action combat.
Was WoW’s class and talent system to small and restrictive? Rift had you covered.
Was WoW’s competitive PvP too unbalanced and not esports enough? Check out League of Legends!
Was WoW’s grind for gear getting you down! Guild Wars 2 broke down that gear treadmill (mostly)!
Etc.
Etc.

The MMO market exploded with new games, but players expected that all these new titles would have the same level of support and degree of updates that the mega-profitable WoW had. Suddenly players started feeling like they could have their cake and eat it too, because look! That game over there has that feature I want! You should bring it to me in this game too!

And with all the competition, MMO companies have been pushing for more and more frequent updates. More balance patches! More new maps! More!

Players have gotten so much of what we want for so long, a lot of us have forgotten that all this magical entertainment is still put together by a team of human beings with limited time and a limited budget.

Not for nothing but I’m pretty sure it was games like UO and EQ that actually launched the mmorpg boom, wow got lucky by coming in right when eq, uo, DAoC, lineage etc all got a little stale so WoW was one of the first modern gen mmos, it really was all timing for WoW.

Oh yea, those games got the MMO scene going well before WoW, but I cited WoW because it made the genre explode and become the industry it is today. =P

Valkyriez.6578:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Before there was a ready check there wasn’t a problem because you’d just hop into the match once you finished loading. Of course this meant more AFK players.

The servers were completely rewritten at the end of 2014, and now there more sophisticated requirements to getting the PvP servers in sync with the game servers wanting to pause/destroy your roster when you hit load screens. The more people queuing outside the mists without fixing this, the more likely people will start seeing problems like ‘random’ dishonor.

How much money do I need to transfer to your bank account for you to fix this issue Evan? I has PayPal.

If there was a kickstarter, I’d throw down some $.

Yes, engis can tank. Here’s a guide. Just be aware that a chrono tank is still probably the most popular choice:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

thunderfall.8095:

Just read my signature to see how conflicted I am.

Same but for pvp I’m not conflicted, I main Mesmer for pve Chronotank and Pvp on Thief, if I could I would raid with my thief if people would allow me lol. But yeah it sucks since launch I have seen both of mains receive nothing but Nerfs the majority of the time.

Yea, I’m in a similar situation.

Semi-tangential rant: It’s really frustrating just how often you have to swap professions to stay relevant in content. Not only do classes go from zero to hero due to balance changes, but different content types favor some classes so much or so little that it’s really rough if you want to main one class and stick with it.

I think Guardians are the only profession to stay relatively strong in all content for most of the game, but even they got wiped out of favor for raids.

Foggy.9213:

…oh and the pets if i go with one with dps he will die fast, logic.. Just game breaking

Bristleback and Smokescale are your friends…

Psssst….Rangers have pets!

OP: Totally agreed. There’s a sense of entitlement that’s kinda spun out of control. Here’s my theory:

So, when MMOs first really exploded and became mainstream, WoW was the big fish. Being the massive MMO that it was, it had a lot of different playerbases that it catered to. These players, who were initially amazed at what was possible in MMOs began to dream up of more stuff they wanted to see. As WoW expanded, players got more of this, but then more and more big companies started to give players what they wanted in different areas.

Was WoW’s story not done well enough? SWTOR swept in and did better.
Was WoW’s combat too slow and tab-targetted for your taste? Tera made amazing action combat.
Was WoW’s class and talent system to small and restrictive? Rift had you covered.
Was WoW’s competitive PvP too unbalanced and not esports enough? Check out League of Legends!
Was WoW’s grind for gear getting you down! Guild Wars 2 broke down that gear treadmill (mostly)!
Etc.
Etc.

The MMO market exploded with new games, but players expected that all these new titles would have the same level of support and degree of updates that the mega-profitable WoW had. Suddenly players started feeling like they could have their cake and eat it too, because look! That game over there has that feature I want! You should bring it to me in this game too!

And with all the competition, MMO companies have been pushing for more and more frequent updates. More balance patches! More new maps! More!

Players have gotten so much of what we want for so long, a lot of us have forgotten that all this magical entertainment is still put together by a team of human beings with limited time and a limited budget.

Two men enter! One man leaves!