Guild Wars 2

Direngrey.8376:

Some people are like that, they don’t bother to read, they just want to join and get their reward.

That’s why I always make sure nobody joins without first whispering me. It helps sorting through players a lot. People who can spell and articulate are typically much better players with better attitude than those who cannot.

Why would people join a first timer’s run and expect nothing to go wrong?

Lupi is on Vicodin or something. He barely shadow steps anymore, his phase 3 is almost entirely just him walking in a circle.

This term has existed since early in the game when players complained about the absurdities of dungeons and their inability to understand why it even exists in this game. They mentioned it months ago this waypoint zerg being changed. The term is buried somewhere in one of these early posts by either the devs or players.

Swagg.9236:

DancingPenguins.9875:

Who is to say which word is a buzzword which is not?

Which word is more replaceable? “Respawning” or “Rez-rushing?” They mean the same thing, but “Respawning” has existed for far longer than “Rez-rushing,” and “Rez-rushing” only has a negative connotation because Robert Hroda decided to use the term in a negative post in which he wagged his finger angrily at players that played the game (GW2) correctly and optimally. “Rez-rushing” literally has no meaning. It’s a thin, paper-mache cover of negativity that an ANet developer slipped over the otherwise neutral definition of the word “Respawning” and then marketed to the GW2 player base in order to justify his implementation of a terrible game-play feature.

One is specific, one is general and not completely relevant.

Just because you call it a buzzword doesn’t mean it is a buzzword.

Who is to say which word is a buzzword which is not?

When I have new people in CoE, the first thing I tell them to do is stop dodge rolling. You can walk out of most of the red circles and survive at least 1 hit. You have 3 seconds from the red circle appearing to you getting hit, which is enough to walk from its center to outside of the circle with normal speed with less than a second to spare.

New players tend to panic and just dodge roll whenever red circles appear under their feet. Stop doing that and walk out casually. Alpha is a slow boss. Pack stun breaks and movement skills for ice prison and panic button attacks, but otherwise he’s slow and squishy. Take your time.

Doing fractals right now, so perfect time to browse the forum.

badges.1583:

I think 12 silver for repair in AC has given me a good example of that dungeon’s capability. I played it several times with various characters.

Incorrect. It speaks less about the dungeon more about you. AC is not difficult, it’s tedious but fairly simple. It also has a preview of the various mechanics this game implements in dungeons. It’s a perfect place to really learn dungeons. Learn your class, get use to it, or don’t.

Booler.6598:

shaktiboi.5194:

I don’t know the Subject Alpha encounter, so perhaps there the group is constrained to a very small area when fighting?

No the problem with the alpha fight is about every 5 – 10 seconds he will put a circle around every player regardless of where they standing , and if your anything less than tanky it will generally one shot you . if you are in mele range of this boss he will not use his aoe circles on you only another couple making people downing in mele range of you/boss easy to pickup , anything else is suicidal at least

Alternatively, everybody can casually walk out of the circles and keep on hitting the boss with whatever they like. That kinda works too.

Kakeru.2873:

Gregorius.1024:

Read this with a British accent AND a top hat

IS no british accent…… a welsh accent is vastly different from a scouse accent!

Any of the more posh accents would suffice.

abelooi.9156:

Great piece! Heh

If you don’t mind I’ll point everyone to your direction whenever I see also a thread about the removal of wp ressing.

This is just an update to an old piece when people were saying dungeons were impossible. I figured it’s easier to rewrite it and link this piece instead of typing up the same thing every time as a reply.

The only thing broken is actually the rating system as I’ve pointed out a long time ago. Glicko-2 doesn’t work for WvW. Hopefully they are changing it with an updated rating system.

Oh look, I knew this was there for a reason.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Again-the-Biggest-Problem-with-Dungeons/first#post1344933

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Ioflux.4369:

This is definitely harder to work with imo when you have an elementalist for tune swapping as pressing ctrl forces your fingers into a lower position. I’m sure it works well for your ranger since pets hardly need any F key pressing outside of their skills / F4 swapping (while in combat). Or maybe I just dont have as long fingers as you do =(.

I’m 6’10 so I have some pretty long fingers. Ranger pets require more control than you would think (especially in dungeons/fractals), but certainly not as much as Ele. I have to use mouse clicks on the earth attunement because I just can’t hit the f4 on my keyboard at home without moving my entire hand off the WASD, and all the other nearby keys are in use.

Then you should definitely do ESDF. I find it to strain your fingers less and feels more natural when you type or reach for the F-keys.

Ioflux.4369:

DancingPenguins.9875:

Ioflux.4369:

Nibiru.1423:

sorry i gave up after skipping the first 50%, what exactly are you rantig about or is it just random? or just me ?

This feels like one of those “woosh” moments where the point of a huge wall of text went way over someone’s head. The first line followed by alot of sarcasm. People tend to miss sarcasm over the interwebz when its in the form of text rather than voice/tone.

Read it with a British Accent.

Reminds me of chancellor sutler or a big brother type personality if I read it in such an accent.

I was actually going for the Monty Python voice in my head. With the Ministry of Silly Walks jingo playing as the background.

I use ESDF for movement this gives me an extra column of keys for utilities and elites since it’s better to have fingers on movement longer and let the pinky do the extra work.

Ioflux.4369:

Nibiru.1423:

sorry i gave up after skipping the first 50%, what exactly are you rantig about or is it just random? or just me ?

This feels like one of those “woosh” moments where the point of a huge wall of text went way over someone’s head. The first line followed by alot of sarcasm. People tend to miss sarcasm over the interwebz when its in the form of text rather than voice/tone.

Read it with a British Accent.

completion time.

CHIPS.6018:

DancingPenguins.9875:

Honestly, like all complaints of the system, it sounded it’s a people problem. You guys got grouped with a lot of bad players.

My friend you got to realize one thing. This isn’t even hard mode. This isn’t Dante Must Die mode. Right now it is just a normal dungeon mode and its already killing tons of the PUGS and casual players.

In GW1 you can get a PUG and finish most stuff in normal mode no problem. Hard mode is slightly harder but still do-able. The only things in GW1 that turns PUGs away was hard mode Domain of Anguish and Winds of Change. But that was a very small portion of the game. Unlike in GW2 where PUGs are getting killed everywhere.

We don’t know that it’s killing PuGs everywhere. We do know that even with waypoint rush, dungeons used to kill PuGs everywhere. Same with pretty much everything in GW1, people got better and the stuff became easy for the majority.

Ioflux.4369:

DancingPenguins.9875:

Ioflux.4369:

While I do agree, you sir have too much time on your hands.

Now I can just link post every time someone complains about no more way point ressing.

Just sig it and then put a belt right above it (clever use of ascii) and go… “check below the belt”

That’s actually a good idea.

Ioflux.4369:

While I do agree, you sir have too much time on your hands.

Now I can just link post every time someone complains about no more way point ressing.

Past experience has taught me to hold on to things that seems to have no value. I’m hoarding them until I run out of space.

@Axeom,

you should probably read this.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/The-biggest-problem-with-Dungeons/first#post347757

Do you remember when you PuG higher level fractals and know almost everyone you get at that scale is competent? Are you sick of having to carry people who can’t dodge through every fight? Have you ever wished there’s a place to find better quality players who won’t whine about no more WP rushing?

Then come and join I Can Dodge [FotM]. Representation, who cares. Let’s just use it as a list of people we can count on in dungeons to not wipe at every turn then blame everyone else for their own deaths.

Grawl requires dodging and position awareness. Most people that went over 40 can dodge them just fine. You are using AR as a crutch.

It could be just the Triforge being uninfusable.

Tarnished Coast is the unofficial Orr server now.

Libertys Knight.4520:

mugsmoney.5239:

Title says it all, I am pretty confused and hugely baffled on why players are complaining about the removal of waypoint ressing. This is the norm in every MMO.

And why did they have it? For the exact same reason GW2 implemented it, so that players wouldnt zerg rush a boss. Now, there was a time wayyyy back in WoW’s early days where you could revive at the graveyard, run back into the raid / dungeon, and continue fighting the boss, but they fixed that quick after seeing how players would just use it as a tactic to overcome raid bosses (specially world raid bosses). But were talking 2002-2003 here.

This mechanic has been in every MMO to date, and it was very odd to see that it wasnt in this game in the first 4 months. Never understood it, but its been resolved now.. +1 ANET!!

Remember: WoW has it. Rift has it. EQ2 has it. <your choice of MMO> has it!

EDIT: Sorry about the title, sucks having to keep it under 45 chars

Sorry, But GW2 was promoted as a DIFFRENT then any other MMO. Something for ALL players and skill level. Things in other MMO’s has NOTHING to do with GW2 . Why do u elitiest keep bring up other MMO’s ?

That does not mean average players have to carry below average players in dungeons. Something for everyone doesn’t mean EVERYTHING for everyone.

Hilda Raven.8641:

I believe it should be simple. Only original party members can join/rejoin, in cases of D/cs and such. No new party members can join, you kick someone thats it you lose the slot. No grabbing someone else and thats the price you’d pay. Work together or fail together.

What happens when someone decides to go AFK for 30 minutes and have lunch. Is the rest of the group supposed to wait?

How about someone sitting at the spawn the entire run?

What about people who simply dies so much that you are making more progress having them dead the entire run?

Then there are these people who start mouthing off the whole run insulting everyone instead of playing?

Ioflux.4369:

DancingPenguins.9875:

Ioflux.4369:

DancingPenguins.9875:

Chests have DRs. Could be that you are doing it too often.

Do you have an actual link to a post confirming so cause I don’t recall this being true. (Yes I’ve searched, I might just suck at searching cause I can’t find one)

Dragon chests have a DR. I wouldn’t put it pass ANet to put a DR on FotM chests. They are quite lucrative at high levels, some easily farmable.

I don’t feel that there is a DR unless it was ninja’d in. I do feel that the drops from jade maw chests have been nerfed considering I only do 2 runs of jade maw a day with Strife.

The same way we are capped at 39 right now. No announcement.

Ioflux.4369:

DancingPenguins.9875:

Chests have DRs. Could be that you are doing it too often.

Do you have an actual link to a post confirming so cause I don’t recall this being true. (Yes I’ve searched, I might just suck at searching cause I can’t find one)

Dragon chests have a DR. I wouldn’t put it pass ANet to put a DR on FotM chests. They are quite lucrative at high levels, some easily farmable.

Chests have DRs. Could be that you are doing it too often.

Payne.1250:

Crucible of Eternity is now impossible, pathetic update ….. path 1, if someone die, it’s over.

Subject Alpha + the new system = impossible.

Awesome Arena net, Thank you for ruining our pleasure

Learn to dodge and CoE is just fine. People shouldn’t have been dying in the first place. Hopefully after a while people that can’t dodge will stop running CoE and make them more enjoyable for the rest of us.

azizul.8469:

i haven’t tried CoF path 2 after the new nerf….

is it possible to invi magg and proceed with killing those assasin ?

Yes, you can. It’s easier than before.

Wethospu.6437:

obal.3218:

Zogyark.4597:

Obal sounds like good guy greg and Wethospu is more like scumbag steve

He appears to be a good player both skill and attitude wise to me from his posts and the one time I talked to him in game. This game could use more people like him in the community.

That’s exactly what “good guy greg” would say.

Say something scummy then, Steve.

Sadistis.4257:

DancingPenguins.9875:

Honestly, like all complaints of the system, it sounded it’s a people problem. You guys got grouped with a lot of bad players.

Queue typical elitist response?

i’m good at the game personally, mainly PvP always play games to compete in PvP. But to my understanding this is supposed to be the “peoples game” favoring the casual player such as myself, not stuffy hey be an elite god walking amongst mere mortals title holder (which i was in GW1) and show full TA gear before you even get into a TA party type of game.

It’s the response best representing the reality. The reality is that it didn’t take some miracle group to not die in these dungeons before, and it doesn’t now. Nothing fundamental changed between your good runs and bad runs other than people. So your problems are people problems.

If you aren’t having fun, then take a break from the game. Wasting money to be mad is either a terrible fetish or no different than throwing money to get kicked in the head, which is probably not healthy either.

If you just want to dump your emotional baggage somewhere, you are barking up the wrong tree doing it on the forum. Go talk to the devs about why you think it’s a bad change. Trying to start arguments on the internet is pointless, especially seeing how you aren’t even enjoying it.

Honestly, like all complaints of the system, it sounded it’s a people problem. You guys got grouped with a lot of bad players.

How are you dying in these dungeons in the first place? Most people have no trouble with them.

Aragorn Son of Arathorn.4015:

@DancingPenguins.9875 Source? Your comment can be a conclusion derived from their actions, but I would rather hear it from a dev.

I actually asked one last night about this. The actual response is that we weren’t supposed to be running in there in the first place since they didn’t release the proper gear for them.

Some other stuff are a bit self contradictory, but ultimately the stance is no gear no progression.

Nope, you are stuck on 39.

Forestgreen.7981:

Stigma.7869:

Merit.2479:

I wanted to bring up a good point that others here have pointed out. Every agony move is avoidable in fractals, except for Jade Maw. Granted, people may have “got to 80” doing exploits (I myself admit doing them once in a while), but I don’t disagree with patching the system to remove an exploit. If Anet said, “Hey, stop exploiting or we’ll take away FotM 50+,” I guarantee you that nobody 50+ would have exploited again. And if Jade Maw agony was avoidable, then people would play that normally too. Cheating is just not worth losing good content for. However, now that we can’t even progress past 50, it’s really the ultimate form of punishment (besides banning, I guess) to the regular FotM player. However, I have a sneaking suspicion that ANet didn’t cap FotM at 50+ just to punish us, I just think they wanted to add more fractal levels and not to reach the end before “enjoying the content as we envisioned it.” It clearly is unfair to the players, I’m usually ok with what ANet does, even if it nerfs skills and the like, as long as the content is still accessible. But now, short of getting odd number fractals from high level FotMers willing to be paid to do it just so we can progress is quite evil indeed on ANets part.

It is not to punish players. With the release of the new amulet it can be easily deduced that Anet doesn’t want players to continue to get through Fractals using skill. They want players to grind for Ascended Gear and get the full armor set which will add up to 400+ Agony Resistance. This is their way of envisioning how to prolong GW2 end game – epitome of gear treadmill for progression. By then a player should be geared enough to handle content that is Fractal 50-80.

So you’re telling me people should be stuck at 50 because they aren’t skilled enough to complete anything higher than 50 because of lack of agony resist? I think agony resist shouldn’t go any higher than 30, if you can’t dodge agony you deserve to die and no longer progress. This is FoTM where how far you can go is determined by how skilled you are, not how much resist you have. I actually want a-net to make grawl fractal the actual final fractal in every instance to weed out the ones that can’t complete it. I can’t tell you how many pugs groups I ran with to do dailys just hard crashed into this stage and gave up because they were playing catch with the shaman taking arrows to the face.

The Dev’s response is that this is purely gear based. They don’t want the skill component to leave players behind, so to speak.

Horrorscope.7632:

Jzl.8715:

The explorable dungeons are supposed to be “face meltingly hard”, people gotten used to mindless playstyle and not learning the fights and even mechanics of their classes properly, hardly can you put all the blame on the developers in my opinion.

But those devs also made the open world game so easy as not to have it make you a better player. Devs did very little to prepare you for the difference. So yes we can just put it all on them.

Would anyone mind sharing a link to solid builds for doing dungeons?

What class are you.

Shlamorel.8714:

I don’t mind the idea of a cap In itself- my only problem is that it was advertised as a dungeon that gets infnitely harder.

In other words, it’d make sense if there was a soft cap due to the sheer impossibility of killing all the mobs or being overwhelmed by adds… But a hard cap due to agony resist isn’t what I was expecting with fotm.

In other words, the progression past 50 will now be staggered based on the max amount of agony resist obtainable. There’s nothin wrong with this in itself – it’s only frustrating because that doesn’t live up to how fotm was advertised before it was launched.

Edit: I guess I should rephrase: progression past the hard cap isn’t impossible (you can still progress by doing odd number fractals). But the max level daily reward chest is hard capped except for one method that I know of: 99% rez method

Does 99% still work under normal circumstances?

Aragorn Son of Arathorn.4015:

@DancingPenguins.9875 Ziazis was essentially providing confirmation that Kurr’s argument was invalid.

Now now, no need to spoil the fun. It would be nice to have recorded evidence of exactly what goes on at the Maw after the patch. Well, it’s also nice to see their reactions on maw too.

Ziazis.3708:

DancingPenguins.9875:

Kurr.4179:

http://www.twitch.tv/stronlol

Videos of Fractals 67-69

Guess it’s not impossible. They even 4 man 67.

Did you do 68 today? Have you even gone in today?

No we played before the patch.

Feel free to do 70 today. Let me know how that turns out. I’d like you to stream that too.

ShinraGuardian.8053:

DancingPenguins.9875:

@Prufrock,

Lava is bugged I believe. Unfortunately they won’t be patching that part for a while.

I’m pretty sure something in the other days patch notes said something about if you die in a hazardous area your body is poofed to a safe nearby location for allies to rez you.

Yes, there’s a safety net on these zones typically. However for CoF 3 it has not been added if Rob’s comment was to be believed.

Morsus.5106:

Lightrayne.7829:

From their dungeon philosophy on the official website:

“Dungeons in Guild Wars 2 reward players who enjoy organized parties, epic challenges, and delving deeper into the secrets of Tyria.”

Well, there will be bad players and if they don’t want to learn how to cooperate then, they don’t deserve the reward, wouldn’t you agree? Groups are supposed to coordinate to overcome an obstacle, not mash the attack buttons. Players should only random PuG when they don’t know anyone. Over time, players that want to have a better dungeon experience should make friends and/or join an organized team/guild for dungeons because that facilitates cooperation.

Whether or not the wp system is in effect does not change the fact that there will be ignorant, uncooperative players out there. If wp zerg rushing is going to be allowed, then you’re encouraging success for people that don’t deserve it. A dungeon might as well be one hallway that leads to a chest that you can loot freely.

If lack of cooperative players is really the problem, please enlighten me on why some people that want to improve their dungeon experience have not moved on to develop friendships or find good guilds/teams. Why do they punish themselves by dice rolling for random strangers day by day doing the same old thing and hitting the same brick wall? Not everyone out there is selfish and ignorant. There are plenty out there who are looking for other cooperative players and want to improve their dungeon experience.

I agree with you though, people not willing to cooperate shouldn’t be rewarded. People who are TRYING to cooperate though shouldn’t be punished because of uncooperative team members.

I ran AC explorable once with a group I thought was going to be cooperative, but instead just wanted to literally “run” through parts of the dungeon. One guy would speed boost the rest and just run through. I thought “At least he’s sorta cooperating, it’s better than button mashers.” No. He left 2 people behind, and he and the other guy that made it through refused to go back and help the other people (I was not one of those, I made it through but still went back to help), now we we’re separated by the catacombs and 2 were at the boss, and 2 were still finding there way past the gravelings. Those people who got left behind shouldn’t be punished for the one guy’s mistake, and should still get the reward, while he shouldn’t. From my experience in a dungeon today, instead of cooperating it drove my team apart. I don’t like button-mashing, but that is preferable to no one being able to beat the dungeon.

Then it’s more of a people issue than dungeon mechanics issue. Dungeon mechanics shouldn’t be used to compensate for people problem. Kick them and move on. Rule number one of running is to never outpace everyone. Running ahead alone when the entire group has to make a dash for it is plainly selfish.

THAT, is a people problem. You just got stuck with some really terribly selfish people, let them solo the boss.

@Prufrock,

Lava is bugged I believe. Unfortunately they won’t be patching that part for a while.