Guild Wars 2

Josh Davis.6015:

As mentioned on today’s GuildChat, we will indeed be adding a slew of new stat combos, runes, and sigils to sPvP with the launch of Heart of Thorns. A small example of what we’ll be adding are trapper runes and sinister stats, but there’s plenty more for you to discover on October 23.

As a note (and to address concerns), we won’t be adding dire stats or perplexity runes to sPvP. We’re vetting and discussing each and every rune/sigil/stat combo as a group before adding them in, with the main goal being improving build diversity.

I’ll also mention that we’re going to be changing the 6/6 bonus on Vampirism. After HoT launch it will no longer proc Mist Form at 25% hp, but will instead cast an AoE lifesteal to up to 5 nearby targets. This will reduce the binary defensive nature of the rune and bring it more inline with similar sets.

There’s going to be a lot of change with the launch next week, and we’re going to be watching balance very closely in all game modes. We will be working to address any emergent gameplay we’re not comfortable with as quickly as possible.

-Grouch

Thank you. Sinister was the only stat really wanted them to add (rampager is bad when fury is so accessible to many classes) and trapper makes sense as it is not feasible to offer soldier runes but not trapper runes.

What will the runes of the revenant be? I assume a celestial stat themed rune just don’t know what it’s bonuses will be. Maybe a bonus that gives vigor?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Daniel Handler.4816:

You are still using the word wrong when you describe her general dialogue. Perhaps you would like to use an example of Marjory being facetious before then in the story. Because making light of a serious situation through humor is not the same as calling something battlefield magic unless you can prove that Marjory wasn’t being serious or that it was received as a joke.

Everything after “on rox” in your post is unnecessary because it either makes a point that I agreed with in the post you were replying to or it is just false. We see Rox cast healing spring in any combat instances we have with her. The poison cloud is probably because poison cloud is a devourer skill.

We don’t know what battlefield magic is because we don’t know the classifications of normal magic beyond the bloodstones. But the bits we have heard would point to it being a thing as protection magic is a thing.

Your posts are returning to the trend that Drax is no doubt talking about. They’re all becoming “you’re wrong, I’m not” without anything to show for it.

This post is a little confusing to me if you follow your statement that I tell people they’re wrong and I’m not.

The argument took place like this.

• I refer to a common event.
• You say a character was kidding because we have not seen another doing something.
• I say you are using kidding wrong and we attempt to rehash a debate that had existed for literally centuries on the word http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2014/03/facetious.html
• I say that we have seen Rox use healing spring and we haven’t seen Braham use healing skills.
• You say we haven’t seen Rox use healing spring and we haven’t seen Brahman use healing skills.

The belligerence I see is me questioning you on your definition of a word. The pretension is you telling me if only I read a character dialogue I would understand, or if only I looked up a word. I spent a good bit of time reading through all of Marjory’s dialogue leading up to when she utterd that phrase. However I fail to see her following the definitions of the word.

I asked for you to cite what part of dialogue makes you believe this about Marjory’s character, perhaps then we could analyse the common ground together. No, the response I get is that I am telling people they are wrong and I am right without proof.

Do you need the wiki alone to tell you Rox has used healing spring or do you want me to replay the missions to get a screenshot?

Drax to my amusement will comment on the threads I create but not to me. I asked them in another thread if I had wronged them somehow, but no reply. They have the desire to participate in discussions I create yet no desire to participate in discussion with the one who created them. They would frequently cite me for providing no proof or arguing incorrectly, when I have ever called out them doing the same I have been met with derision. It must be wrong of me to declare them hypocritical when the very statement they declared with certainty , that necromancers potential could be seen in Lichs, was based on an assumption, regardless of whether or not it was an opinion, as other commenter were able to get across, it was not enough proof.

Let me be the hypocrite then if it suits you.

I encourage you all to look back and actually read the comments you post, if you find no posts that have been overly assuming I would be amazed. If you can’t find one post even in the last 100 comments you made I would be impressed.

For instance calling trahearne bipolar, please don’t make me post the dsm V this is where I ask you to look up the kitten word. Bipolar is not a symptom of depression, and depression is not a symptom of bipolar. They call it depression and bipolar depression for a reason. I usually don’t curse in posts but this is turning into us versus them, with one side grasping a moral high ground and turning up their nose at the other. I have had enough of listening to Congress to get it in my free time.

tldr: If you don’t like a discussion point then agree that we disagree on that point and move on. This isn’t running a country, it’s a literary discussion. Why do people have to be so insulting? There is always some common ground.

Xaylin.1860:

Fay.2357:

Nascull.5842:

how no skil it can be ? interupt with a perplexy rune give ure enmy 14 stack of confu and w8 and use 40% condie duration foods where is the time only skilful players where able to win the fights instead of a perplexy noob ? take his rune away and hes performing like kitten

By reading this post, I have been shuttled along a fast track to enlightenment. Truly, I have now seen the light.

Sure it wasn’t just a seizure?

Commenting on his spelling is poor taste if you want to keep the moral high ground . His meaning was transferred, he could be dyslexic, or a non native speaker, or using a phone with a bad keyboard, or something else entirely. None of the above is relevant to the points he makes. All that you accomplished is make our declaration of troll less impactful since ability to be 100% objective has been called into question.

Tldr; sigh more disappointing comments to a disappointing discussion.

draxynnic.3719:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

• I’ve never really read into string theory so I cannot comment. I’m sure drax can. What I do know is that ether is mentioned to be the foundation of magic.

Yes, but considering I’ve been sitting back and watching a certain pattern repeat for the fifth time, I’m not inclined to directly engage with DH.

I doubt string theory has been developed in Tyrian science, however. I’m not aware of any sign that even the asura have performed the experiments that would lead to the development of relativity or quantum mechanics, and thus to an effort to find a theory that unifies the two. Asura have ‘lasers’, which in the real world are based on quantum mechanics, but the asura ‘lasers’ have little in common with real lasers and should probably be thought of simply as generic magic guns.

Mesmers might have some understanding of one or both of relativity and quantum mechanics, if these theories are accurate in Tyria, since they would likely be using them for some of their magic, but they might also simply know what they can do with magic without such detailed awareness of the underpinning physics (there’s no evidence that elementalists naturally develop an awareness of the processes of oxidation and electron flow through using fire and air magic, after all). It’s also possible that neither theory actually applies in Tyria, and their manipulation of time, space, and chaos are products of Tyria’s magic-based physics that do not necessarily run parallel to modern science.

One thing that makes for an interesting observation is that the Mists could well sit in the place of the luminiferous aether that was theorised to be the medium through which light propagates in the late 1800s.

Ahh yes but you comment on the posts I make. Nice high ground you have there.

Khalic.3561:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Gokil.2543:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Xillllix.3485:

Would be nice if Warhorn had a RTL equivalent on air skill 4, like if you teleported into the cyclone.

THe ball from the ball lightning (warhorn air 5) should chain into a skill that lets you teleport to it. It does pitiful damage anyway might as well give it some mobility.

This is a super cool idea!

Pitiful damage? You realise that it hits 12 times against single targets? What are you even taking about?

When did you get 12 hits on a target out of that thing? Every enemy easily sidesteps it or the orb itself moves out of range of them after like… 3-4 shots.

Use it with cyclone and use it from 600 range. The orb moves about 300 range per 1.25 seconds. Firing at one projectile per 1/4 of a second you will always get 12 bolts if you keep them lock down. 1 on entering the 300 range, 5 as it moves between 300 and the target, 5 more as it moves between the target and the 300 range away, and 1 as it moves out of range.

If a character is running away on a straight line and you use it from melee range as they begin to flee they will either have to change trajectory (which brings you closer to them) or they have the potential of being hit 20 times.

In PvP when people are in capture points if they don’t leave the point or dodge (which only evades 3 projectiles) they will be hit for the full twelve.

Manarain.7940:

Daniel Handler.4816:

The thing is I didn’t run jalis stance

Best response in a thread about Jalis.

But about the stability information, I liken the revenant’s access to stability a bit on par with mesmer’s access to stability,
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Break
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Disillusionment,
and an example of running mesmer as frontline in WvW. Instead of being a frontline class, mesmer is absolutely amazing at mid to backline roles. I’m not saying it can’t be done, I’m just saying it’s not great. The same can be said about revenant, frontline rev is fun but hammer mid to backline pressure/support is so much better than running it as a frontline brawler.

But this thread is about Jalis and this kind of comment should be put into new thread if you want to talk about WvW role definition.

They are incomparable because mesmer doesn’t have the number if blocks and immunes that Rev and other frontliners have.

And if you read the post you would see that I said it’s hard to balance based on how jalis performs in wvw because atm it isn’t necessary in wvw.

The road is more useful in PvE or PvP as tanks/bunkers/fractal utility where stationary play is more acceptable. Inspiring reinforcement can replace hallowed ground which isn’t needed in wvw but it can’t replace stand your group which is. The sole instance of use being giving stability to rammers and that is not enough to warrant use of the stance.

The taunt is useful in ganking low stability players which is limited to pvp because in wvw it is not as useful as removing stability with malyx as boon removal is in shorter supply than cc. The skill is useless in pve because the enemies that need to be tanked have breakbars. The skill would be only be truly useful for drawing aggro as a bunker in PvP.

Jalis’ seemingly only good use in wvw would be to pair it with Glint and act as a damage reduction and stability bot for people on siege. But again, that is not enough to warrant taking it, glints regeneration plus protection is usually more than enough.

The issue with jalis is that unlike all of the other stances it’s skills are not truly useful in all game modes.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

On Marjory: It’s far more evident in Season 1 and most importantly in the tone that Marjory does have a joking personality behind her serious motto.

As for correct/incorrect use of the word, look up the definition of it. It means to make light of a serious situation. That’s what Marjory was doing when Kasmeer was worried sick about her. She was making light of the situation in order to put Kasmeer (and perhaps herself) at ease – or more ease. She wasn’t blatantly facetious, but that doesn’t mean she wasn’t being facetious.

I actually find that a LOT of people misuse facetious – it wouldn’t be surprising if you see it constantly misused and think that’s the proper usage. Like how people use literally when they mean figuratively.

On Rox: Have you ever seen her cast a nature ritual? No? Neither have I. Nor have I ever seen her cast healing springs. The closest thing to magic I’ve ever seen is some poison cloud looking effect when she uses barrage. But that can easily be explained by her using special arrows.

Just because the PCs can doesn’t mean the NPCs can too. Similarly, just because NPCs can doesn’t mean that PCs can too. Everybody has their own way of specializing into a profession.

We know that guardians are capable healers – Logan is, for example, just as much as he is capable at fighting and shields (despite what mechanics show, this is shown downright in Edge of Destiny – including the healing bit). However, not once does Braham ever use healing magic. We only see him bashing things with his mace, using magic to augment him bashing things with his mace, and on rare occasion creating a shield with his magic.

Similar with Rox and rangers. We know they can use magic, but not once do we ever see Rox using magic. Plus there is no such thing as “battlefield magic” except in the metaphorical sense of being an expert on the battlefield – in this case, first aid.

You are still using the word wrong when you describe her general dialogue. Perhaps you would like to use an example of Marjory being facetious before then in the story. Because making light of a serious situation through humor is not the same as calling something battlefield magic unless you can prove that Marjory wasn’t being serious or that it was received as a joke.

Everything after “on rox” in your post is unnecessary because it either makes a point that I agreed with in the post you were replying to or it is just false. We see Rox cast healing spring in any combat instances we have with her. The poison cloud is probably because poison cloud is a devourer skill.

We don’t know what battlefield magic is because we don’t know the classifications of normal magic beyond the bloodstones. But the bits we have heard would point to it being a thing as protection magic is a thing.

Nox Lucis.8341:

spartan.9421:

If you want a game like that i suggest trying a game called “real life”.

Well played spartan. Well played.

Or you know you could play https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_World
Unfortunately gw2 is rated t.

@spartan the game is not for all ages. It is rated t for teens. The same teens who read books like the hunger games. Grow up.

Also let’s not forget that people of all ages and religions play this game killing a zombie or a peaceful chicken or a bandit is far more acceptable among people than suicide is.

That comment in itself is troubling, but not as much as you taking my suggestion to the extreme there should be mass suicides.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Responding in order:

• Being capable of reverting, sensing, or hastening decay doesn’t mean it isn’t there at a natural rate.
• I’ve never really read into string theory so I cannot comment. I’m sure drax can. What I do know is that ether is mentioned to be the foundation of magic.
• Never said that there are no twins, but rather that we don’t see any. I don’t count sylvari because they’re dragon minions and dragon minions are known to create clones – especially Modremoth.
• Marjory doesn’t jest via sarcasm but being facetious. It means making light of a serious situation. People do this to avoid shock or freaking out in overly stressful situations – like almost dying. If you paid attention to Marjory’s dialogue, she actually makes similar comments a lot. Not as sarcasm or being overly witty, but facetious and, on rare occasion, puns.
• We NEVER see Rox using magic, nor is there any indication that she can. And it goes against common charr mentality for her to do so when she doesn’t have to.

No. That is an incorrect use of the word facetious. Being crude is not being facetious. You say there are many examples but I find none.

As for Rox not being able to use nature magic as a ranger I don’t see how you can make the assertion. After all we both assert that Braham does not seem knowledgeable in the healing magics. That only follows if we establish the trait lines as a parodies of mastering aspects of the classes. From that we have no basis to assume what Rox’s abilities are beyond what we have seen her perform. And what we have seen her perform is the healing spring. Which I would hope you agree is magic. We have not seen Braham perform any healing magic beyond the creation of the symbol of faith and the true strike which are both not pure heals, so our assumption on his aptitude is correct it seems.

Gokil.2543:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Xillllix.3485:

Would be nice if Warhorn had a RTL equivalent on air skill 4, like if you teleported into the cyclone.

THe ball from the ball lightning (warhorn air 5) should chain into a skill that lets you teleport to it. It does pitiful damage anyway might as well give it some mobility.

This is a super cool idea!

Pitiful damage? You realise that it hits 12 times against single targets? What are you even taking about?

spartan.9421:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Nox Lucis.8341:

Ehecatl.9172:

I don’t understand. Are you saying the franchise isn’t good unless it’s loaded with suicides?

I am channeling the ghost of William Shakespeare right now. He says “Yes”.

I am channeling myself and I say no. What I do say is that the game has a poor track record of showing extreme emotion of any kind. The characters stand still as they deliver their lines, and many times the lines they deliver bear no relation on the mood of the situation itself.

The concepts of charm, dignity, and ferocity are gone.

Daniel maybe we should just have every single NPC kill themself! Would that make you happy? because right now that seems to be exactly what you want. If you want alot of game characters to take their life YOU HAVE A PROBLEM!!!! It is sick that you want a high suicide/depression rate in a game made for people of all ages. You have a sick mind Daniel. Very few people would play a game with high suicide rate. Suicide is a very taboo subject that most games do not like to touch on because it can have a very negative impact on the appearance of the company and the game as well as encourage suicide in the real world. Also let’s not forget that people of all ages and religions play this game killing a zombie or a peaceful chicken or a bandit is far more acceptable among people than suicide is. And i personally would not want to play a game with a high suicide rate especially if those suicides were just from some nameless npcs who were a little depressed! Suicide does not mean a game is good. If you want to see a high suicide rate watch the news! Guild wars 2 is about having fun not watching as your fellow pact soldiers and random civilians take their own lives because of PTSD or depression! People have shown you many NPCs with depression of some form and yet you are not satisfied, why? Would it be better if those NPCs went and jumped off a cliff? Would that somehow make for better storytelling? NO!

Oh my god. The kitten is this post? Its like you didn’t even read any of the posts after the post I responded to. You are so hung up on the suicide part of the conversation. This post has so much strawman, i’ll give you an opportunity to at least restructure this before I respond to imagined arguments.

@Konig Genetic decay when monks can revert physical damage? Decay when necromancers can feel decay

If they have atoms then string theory in their universe would actually be ether theory.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wild_Growth Arlon and Pellam are identical twins, the only difference they have is the length of their hair.

As for your part on Rox, why would she be jesting in that situation? There is no sarcasm in Marjoy’s voice acting. Marjory is always serious or crude in all dialogue she has ever had. Joking is against her character as a noir detective. She would never obscure meaning, especially to Kasmeer. She would use wit or analogy. Battlefield magic is not a pun and when she says this Kasmeer doesn’t chuckle.

Rox used magic. And for some reason Braham couldn’t use magic when wounded by a broken leg. Because of the trait lines and how the devs said it represented real world specializations of magic, I assume that Braham might just suck at healing magic.

Manarain.7940:

I know I’m in the minority while I post this comment but I hate, HATE, Jalis. Not from a “roles” standpoint, it just feels clunky to me. Too much CC in WvW making rev not a great frontline class.

If RotGD worked more like an ele’s Armor of Earth and Vengeful Hammers was lowered to -6 degen instead of -7, I would like it much more.
Also Inspiring Reinforcement needs help (longer stab or faster application)… just something.

I say these things knowing my bias against Dwarf Stance #JalisMakinMeHateDoorfs

…
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unwavering_Avoidance
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Enhanced_Bulwark

Jalis stance could have zero stability and I wouldn’t care .

I also ran rev in the front lines.

The thing is I didn’t run jalis stance, just the retribution line. Each stance is the extreme expression of a role, the traitlines also express that role but enhance commonly desirable aspects of roles .

So don’t you dont need the stance unless you absolutely must tank, same as ventari and healing . They are more PvE specs .

Ross Biddle.2367:

Quadox.7834:

Fay.2357:

Quadox.7834:

Feel free to support Confounding Suggestions as it is now, i don’t mind.
_____________________________________________________
But know that, by doing so, you are effectively supporting:

- Mesmer class being easier, lower skill cap, smaller gap between a decent Mesmer and an amazing Mesmer, mechanically.

- Limiting build choices by having one much, MUCH better trait out of three.

This entire post is utter garbage. Allow me to explain why, in detail.

Let me explain the concept of a skill cap, since that obviously was lost in translation somewhere. A skill cap is a theoretical upper limit on the influence of player skill on playing a class. This is a result of a huge number of factors, not any one change.

Every class in the game, by the simple fact of GW2 mechanics, has a monstrously high skill cap. No player in this game can even remotely claim to have reached or approached that point for any class. It is absolute lunacy to state that the small interaction of a trait lowers the theoretical upper limit that hasn’t ever been reached.

In addition, it doesn’t make a smaller gap between a good Mesmer and a great mesmer at all. It’s always been possible to land burst on a Mesmer through various means, CS just makes it slightly easier. The primary gauge of skill on a Mesmer is surviving to land the next burst, not actually landing it.

This is a good thing!

If every aspect of a class was obscenely difficult to do, there would be no reason to play the class at all (aka Mesmer for the majority of this game). All classes should have aspects that are easier; for players to start with, and aspects that are harder; for players to master.

Limiting build choices is, if possible, even less coherent of an argument than the skill cap one. CS is a good trait. It is better than the other options at its level. However, did you ever consider that this disparity is caused by the fact that the other options are garbage-tier? …obviously not.

Bursting is not only “slightly easier” because of CS, the difference is huge, and it absolutely makes a bad and impatient Mesmer still be able to burst easily. You mention “other ways” to land bursts. Assuming no CC help from teammates, the only other mechanic that essentially gives Mesmer a “free” burst is stealth- something that also lacks counterplay in this game (Let’s not discuss this here).

The existence of Mental Anguish supports the uttermost intention behind the CS/MoD setup.

Mesmer isnt only intended to take advantage of this setup, they’re meant to utterly destroy their target in the process. +30% damage vs inactivity doesn’t lie.

They clearly know the developers intent.

They are just part of a crowd that likes the good old days when it meant something to even pull off a shatter. It’s a #noscope fps mentality.

It’s strange that they don’t realise the skill floor of mesmer is too high already.

@quaddox @fry
The basic GS combo of 4 2 f1 3 is enough that many people still miss it. Older players and those with lag have difficulty syncing the skills so the burst lands close together, or making sure they don’t mind wrack the phantasm before it strikes the target or before the mirror blade clone is summoned. It hard enough that the target is moving, even with a 1.25 second stun the burst occurs over 2+ seconds.

Let’s compare this to warrior. They flurry, immediately swap, hundred blades. No timing required. Spam away.

Let’s compare to necromancer. They shroud, fear, gap close, summon binding chains, then life blast at its highest power as you try to get away before the chains immobilize you. No timing required. Spam away.

Do you know what happens when a “bad and impatient mesmer” presses 4 2 f1 3 in quick succession while in melee range based on a combo they saw online? Here I’ll you. They execute a 2 clone mind wrack plus a mind stab, and a single GS clone is left up pew pewing. Their OP burst does around 5k+ less than it is suppose to. Much timing required.

Why change the skill floor?

Edit: deceptive evasion tied to dodge, learn to conserve them as you have to use this trait most of the time. Auto attack is not the main source of damage. Summoned phantasms and clones will not positionally be in your control , even for the most part where they summon. Bounces do not have universal behavior. Your phantasms attack at a rate you should memorize. Our skill floor of learning how this class works resembles other classes cap .

Sarif.1827:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Yes the condi removal would be 1 every 2 seconds only for yourself if you spam the heal. But the removal would only be for yourself. Second the tablet doesn’t actually have to move, you can just tell it to “move” to the same spot it is in and you will gain all these benefits.

…. yea…. that about covers it… and here I was thinking I would get to answer a question…

You still can. Is the summon also counted as a heal or just the move portion? Because the charge of the health mantra and the equipping of med kit no longer proc runes and on heal traits, yet the use of creation of a healing turret and commanding it both proc on heal traits.

Misguided.5139:

This is pretty interesting, actually. I’ve been so focused on making a more aggressive build for once, I hadn’t spent a ton of time contemplating what a tank/bunker build might look like.

Retribution minor GM, plus shrouding mists, plus vengeful hammers activated on swap would give you the equivalent of protection for a good chunk of time, not counting actual Protection. add in Herald for Hardening Persistence, bolster fortifications, and bulwark/bastion and you could have a pretty darn tanky build if you want. I don’t think Rite is a good use of energy on any sort of routine basis, though.

I’m gonna blow your mind.

Retribution: close quarters, Dwarven battle training, rejuvenating steadfast
Invocation: cleansing channel, invigorating howl, shrouding mist
Herald: Hardening Persistence, bolster fortifications, enhanced bulwark

Use a staff and a sword/shield for max block+evade

1. 5 second of the rite of the defy pain
2. 5 seconds of shield block plus UA
3. Swap legends and set
4. 3 second of warding rift into surge of the mist
5. 3 second of being hit like a normal person except you have traits and protection and they have weakness
6. 4 seconds of infuse light to full heath
7. repeat all of these steps using infuse light every other rotation, the cycles it’s off cooldown just dodge more (which you should be doing because of stability) and use your heal in jalis when you go for step one, making up for the five energy loss by waiting one second before you activate the rite of the great dwarf) the 3 or 7 second period will not be challenging given all your buffs.

Kronos.2560:

So basically what you’re saying is that if you use rite and vengeful hammers at same time, while using f2 active this can be achieved. Which is probably possible assuming you use all of them simultaneously.

Please tell me where all this energy is coming from? You do realize you get 50 energy on legend swap not 100 right? Just rite takes all of it… done, no more energy, now the waiting game, sit back and auto attack…. you realize this right?

You do realize that rite has a channel time right and an aftercast? Whether you use the 50 energy at the start or end of channeling won’t even matter.

Swap spam f2 into exploding, . 25 of a second, .75 energy gained.
Rite of great dwarf, 1.25 seconds channel, 6.25 energy gained.

That is 7 seconds of energy and you only need . 6 of a second in aftercasts to reach the 10 seconds requirement for a five seconds hammer use.

Energy gain is constant and ticks in millisecond.

Yes the condi removal would be 1 every 2 seconds only for yourself if you spam the heal. But the removal would only be for yourself. Second the tablet doesn’t actually have to move, you can just tell it to “move” to the same spot it is in and you will gain all these benefits.

Misguided.5139:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I would like everyone to realise that on swapping to jalis and every 10s later you can get 5s of 82%(plus whatever toughness adds) or more damage reduction. Which with regeneration is essentially a free defy pain every 10s.

If you just came from malyx you potentially have close to a 100% immunity to everything on the first swap. If not you still are immune to physical damage 50% of the time.

As far as I can tell only the road and the taunt need changing.

Where is the 82% figure from? I don’t think you are counting one with nature, since that plus Rite would only be 66% and F2 is on a 25 second cooldown.

If you cast Rite immediately, you would have no energy for hammers (the cost on Rite is 50, not 40 as the wiki states, so you would have to wait a bit before doing that. Even so, rite plus hammers is only 60% total (and far less vs conditions)

Soothing stone is a 30 second cooldown and the trained protection is only 2 seconds.

What are you referring to?

Traits in retribution, invocation added give 30%
You have enough for hammers because of the energy gain during the cast time of rite and the inherent delays of aftercasts and human finger speed. 20%
You have the 50% of the rite of the great dwarf
We are now at 70%ish damage reduction, add protection we jump to 82%ish

When you add in the damage reduction that comes from armor it means that permanent protection is not even a requirement. When a thief’s backstab will hit you for between 1000 or 500 (Dwarven battle training) and you have regeneration and retaliation, it’s basically a defy pain.

I also agree it’s a false comparison. The closest skill is actually http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rush as golden pointed out.

Which as you can see does does similar damage, has no evade, and also locks you into an animation. The only thing you can possibly draw from this is that rtl should have a 20 second cooldown.

Remake it with Druid. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

I would like everyone to realise that on swapping to jalis and every 10s later you can get 5s of 82%(plus whatever toughness adds) or more damage reduction. Which with regeneration is essentially a free defy pain every 10s.

If you just came from malyx you potentially have close to a 100% immunity to everything on the first swap. If not you still are immune to physical damage 50% of the time.

As far as I can tell only the road and the taunt need changing.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

There has been NPCs talking about studying weather, animals, plants, life and death, rates of decay, astronomy and astrology, metalurgy, chemistry (not only via alchemy which is a mix of traditional chemistry and magic – which is the view of traditional alchemy in fact – but also in things like blackpowder), anatomy (they even have surgeons), herbal medicines, and even studied electricity, radiation, and more.

Like Ehecatl said, the study of magic in many cases is still a study in science for Tyrians – especially asura and hyleks who focus their study largely on magitech and alchemy respectively.

The first heart in Metrica Province has you fixing golems – if you’re on a non-asura, rather than technobabble the dialogue for fixing them is about wires and energy flow. It’s just that rather than electricity, they run on some magical source (or magically generated electricity).

In physics and chemistry: What do we know of their core concepts? My assumption is that they have no atoms only ether +magic.

• Do they have entropy?
• Do the stars in their universe have similar distances to our own?
• Ice and water seem to be related by not synonymous in this world, there are spirits behind the process of frost, do they complement or cause the process?
• Is the ice made by necromancers water that is frozen, or something else?

On biology and medicine: When Marjory was hurt, Rox seemed to be the only one knowledgeable of battlefield magic that heals despite Brahman being a Guardian.

• Has the knowledge of first aid been delayed by the existence of monk and their instant heals to the point only rangers and engineers are competent?
• We have seen identical twins and medelian characters to the point one can assume something similar to DNA exists in all creatures. Yet we see no humans living thousands of years despite aging being a form of genetic decay. Is the process of death not solely biological, and if not how much power is given to the soul?

I think these are enough questions for now

Tyria is a land of magic. Recently it underwent a technological revolution. We’ve seen developments such as alchemy but I myself am unsure how it corresponds to a scientific body of knowledge. Is alchemy chemistry? Chemistry and magic? Incomparable?

Before the technological revolution did people learn of physics through mesmer magic? Is the average citizen of tyria knowledgeable of science at all?

Or am I assuming too much? We don’t even know if they have the water cycle.

I think we should have been given a simultaneous overload. An elite f5 overload that performed all overlords at once and was uninterruptable. To complete that channel would unleash a burst that immobilized enemies and hit them with whirling brutal bolts, burning them for good measure, and healing your allies. That is a tempest. Not a bubble.

The dedication is impressive.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

“Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.”

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.Or actually probably a better suggestion made my someone was to just to totally change what CS does. Which I think is a pretty good idea. Would let us create a skill that doesn’t overshine on the other two traits there in addition to dealing with CS. If I could go with either my original suggestion or totally changing what CS does I’d probably go with the second one. The question is, what would you replace it with? Something that fits with mesmer. Any ideas welcome. How about on interrupt create a clone with a 5-10 second CD?

EDIT: At this point IDK why I am surprised. After all, some of these guys were trolling in that mesmer dungeon chronomancer thread

Yes it would, and by quite a lot. Reducing the movement abilities of illusions makes them easier to kite. It would make it so people had to concentrate more on positioning their Illusions. Right now the only time we have to focus on positioning is for a chain daze.

Your argument is anecdotal and doesnt explain what should and shouldn’t have skill floors in this game. Extremely easy to use and no counterplay:
Auras
Stances
Virtues
Stat buffs that activate upon entering combat
…. Etc

You have to come up with some better explanation dude.

I am trying to to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep repeating a non explanation.

You want counterplay to raise the skill floor. Tell us why.

Except you can’t really control where your illusions are once they are out………something minor again. And why do I want counterplay AKA higher skill floor? Because right now the effects of the stun are strong.

@Ross Biddle

And yet, CS would actually still compete with the other trait options in that line…………

They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.

And now finally we are getting somewhere.

Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.

“They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.
"

WTF?

“Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.”

Not against instant cast CCs. I’ve said this a thousand times but your like stability! Guess what? Can’t tell when to use it because it’s instant cast. Blinds! Same reason. Then you continue to say stability like it’s a valid thing after I already discussed why it isn’t. You must have said it a thousand times. You just don’t get it. Saying stability or dodge or blinds or whatever over and over and over again after it’s already been discussed is just funny. But stability! Blinds! Dodges! Stability! Blinds! Dodges! That’s like literately been the whole thread. When your ready to move on from this never ending stability! Blinds! Dodges! stuff then let me know…

You know full well the counterplay to an instant cast cc is a stunbreaker. You also know full well there are ways to eat the burst. You know full well there are mitigation skills that are also instant that are not stun breakers.

Give me an actual example. Please. I can’t say you are speaking in an anecdotal form because you don’t give examples. I can’t say you are being theoretical because you don’t give hypothetical examples.

For god sake please just give an example of what you are talking about. Because as far as I can tell you are advocating on behalf of berserker pew pew builds.

“You know full well the counterplay to an instant cast cc is a stunbreaker. You also know full well there are ways to eat the burst. You know full well there are mitigation skills that are also instant that are not stun breakers.”

Yes, but by the time you stunbreak and dodge the burst has already happend. And there are a few mitigations of damage skills out there but they normerly have long CDs and CS has two charges. As for hypothetical examples? A mesmer fights some class. he presses 3 buttens. He gets off a large burst or depending on the class it gets mitigated. Then when he has another burst up a little later he does the same thing except now the enemy has used his mitigation. 20 seconds later he can start casting MoD in stealth or later on. Anyway see the above by Quadox.7834. He/she has a very good point on it lowering the overall skill cap of mesmer in addition to the fact it totally blows the other traits there out of the water.

The burst is 2 seconds long. How you are not stunbreaking and dodging to avoid at least half is strange.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

“Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.”

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.Or actually probably a better suggestion made my someone was to just to totally change what CS does. Which I think is a pretty good idea. Would let us create a skill that doesn’t overshine on the other two traits there in addition to dealing with CS. If I could go with either my original suggestion or totally changing what CS does I’d probably go with the second one. The question is, what would you replace it with? Something that fits with mesmer. Any ideas welcome. How about on interrupt create a clone with a 5-10 second CD?

EDIT: At this point IDK why I am surprised. After all, some of these guys were trolling in that mesmer dungeon chronomancer thread

Yes it would, and by quite a lot. Reducing the movement abilities of illusions makes them easier to kite. It would make it so people had to concentrate more on positioning their Illusions. Right now the only time we have to focus on positioning is for a chain daze.

Your argument is anecdotal and doesnt explain what should and shouldn’t have skill floors in this game. Extremely easy to use and no counterplay:
Auras
Stances
Virtues
Stat buffs that activate upon entering combat
…. Etc

You have to come up with some better explanation dude.

I am trying to to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep repeating a non explanation.

You want counterplay to raise the skill floor. Tell us why.

Except you can’t really control where your illusions are once they are out………something minor again. And why do I want counterplay AKA higher skill floor? Because right now the effects of the stun are strong.

@Ross Biddle

And yet, CS would actually still compete with the other trait options in that line…………

They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.

And now finally we are getting somewhere.

Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.

“They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.
"

WTF?

“Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.”

Not against instant cast CCs. I’ve said this a thousand times but your like stability! Guess what? Can’t tell when to use it because it’s instant cast. Blinds! Same reason. Then you continue to say stability like it’s a valid thing after I already discussed why it isn’t. You must have said it a thousand times. You just don’t get it. Saying stability or dodge or blinds or whatever over and over and over again after it’s already been discussed is just funny. But stability! Blinds! Dodges! Stability! Blinds! Dodges! That’s like literately been the whole thread. When your ready to move on from this never ending stability! Blinds! Dodges! stuff then let me know…

You know full well the counterplay to an instant cast cc is a stunbreaker. You also know full well there are ways to eat the burst. You know full well there are mitigation skills that are also instant that are not stun breakers.

Give me an actual example. Please. I can’t say you are speaking in an anecdotal form because you don’t give examples. I can’t say you are being theoretical because you don’t give hypothetical examples.

For god sake please just give an example of what you are talking about. Because as far as I can tell you are advocating on behalf of berserker pew pew builds.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

“Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.”

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.Or actually probably a better suggestion made my someone was to just to totally change what CS does. Which I think is a pretty good idea. Would let us create a skill that doesn’t overshine on the other two traits there in addition to dealing with CS. If I could go with either my original suggestion or totally changing what CS does I’d probably go with the second one. The question is, what would you replace it with? Something that fits with mesmer. Any ideas welcome. How about on interrupt create a clone with a 5-10 second CD?

EDIT: At this point IDK why I am surprised. After all, some of these guys were trolling in that mesmer dungeon chronomancer thread

Yes it would, and by quite a lot. Reducing the movement abilities of illusions makes them easier to kite. It would make it so people had to concentrate more on positioning their Illusions. Right now the only time we have to focus on positioning is for a chain daze.

Your argument is anecdotal and doesnt explain what should and shouldn’t have skill floors in this game. Extremely easy to use and no counterplay:
Auras
Stances
Virtues
Stat buffs that activate upon entering combat
…. Etc

You have to come up with some better explanation dude.

I am trying to to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep repeating a non explanation.

You want counterplay to raise the skill floor. Tell us why.

Except you can’t really control where your illusions are once they are out………something minor again. And why do I want counterplay AKA higher skill floor? Because right now the effects of the stun are strong.

@Ross Biddle

And yet, CS would actually still compete with the other trait options in that line…………

They many times run in straight lines. We would have to use other phantasms that don’t move to guide people into getting hit.

And now finally we are getting somewhere.

Why are the effects of CS strong? There is an enormous amount of counterplay to cc in this game.

draxynnic.3719:

Knox.8462:

There’s the implication that Mesmers can control magic at it’s most basic level, which allows them to alter reality and manipulate other people’s magic.

More than an implication, I think. However, it has limits – from what we’ve seen, they can only reproduce the magic of another magical profession if they have a member of that profession there to copy off.

In the lore they have a strong ability to shut down the magic of others, but I do not consider the ability to remove or prevent a magical effect to be as powerful as the ability to perform it. Most such effects require the mesmer to be within engagement distance, and anybody engaged at that distance probably does not have the leisure to perform some of the more elaborative effects as we’ve discussed here.

@Vlad: You make a valid point, but we don’t really know what makes a lich, or whether being a lich is required to have that level of ability to create undead or whether it’s that you need to have that level of ability to become a lich (which would fundamentally be using that magic on yourself).

@Kalavier: Re: the commando events: I consider them to be of dubious canonicity. Maybe they are, maybe they aren’t. Either way, chronomancers do not currently appear to be able to warp time by more than a few minutes: the commando events, if they are canon, simply suggest that this power may be possible to achieve in the future. (And even then it might need to involve some complicated asura technomancy and the like rather than being something that a single ornery mesmer can do on a whim.)

@Ehecatl: Yes, it’s entirely possible that an ascended Baelfire would be an elementalist equivalent of Joko. What we saw was certainly impressive… but still (at that point) restricted to the local area. It’s possible that if Baelfire hadn’t been stopped then, though, he might well have had the ability to conjure an army of elementals, invoke Searing-level effects at will, and generally behave like an angry god of flame.

Still, from what we’ve seen, elementalists aren’t capable of raising elemental armies at the level that necromancers (or at least liches) are capable of raising undead armies, though, so when push comes to shove, I’d be inclined to go with what’s been observed rather than hypotheticals. It’s entirely possible that the other professions are capable of reaching the same level in their own way, but at the moment, I think Joko is the one that’s got the furthest based on his own power derived from being a necromancer.

But we don’t know how joko became a lich and the lich we do know the origin story of did not do it through his own power of being a necromancer. It seems very unlikely that palawa would have the power of an elder dragon simply by training.

Agroman.7190:

Kalavier.1097:

Hm. Well, gameplay mechanics will play a part in it. For example, the “Ascalon monks” in fractals don’t really use any monk like skills that I remember.

But hey, I did say it’s my head-canon/personal belief that monks are still around, just to a lesser extent. Because honestly, the type of magic monks used/the role they filled in society wouldn’t go away (even if the gameplay reason for it has).
edit: I simply don’t see the monk, so heavily tied to Dwayna, being removed and all priests/priestesses of Dwayna being eles now :P.

I agree completely with your opinion. But I’d also say that it’s more than just mechanics if we see the priests putting out fires with water magic that cannot be done by players in the same way. I believe that is more ambient stuff than mechanics. Still, you’re right – it doesn’t make much sense that monks are completely gone, especially among priests. We have been told that more effective ways to achieve similar magical effects have been found, but clerics are very traditional people. So I believe it’s fair to say that we have both monks, unarmored guardians and elementalists among the priests of Dwayna.

I would also assume that the monks are still there.

Mordakai gritted his teeth. With the monks and clerics gone, Ascalon’s Chosen had no more healing magic left. Their prayers to Dwayna would reach only deaf ears.

Those who fell in battle now would not return.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Battle_for_Kyhlo

This particular segment from from the story speaks to the concept of monk and clerics being separate concepts. There is a possibility that it signified gender but that seems unlikely given the existence of Dwarven clerics. This would support the idea that the of Dwayna healing crowd would not be limited to just elementalists.

But now that at least that part is somewhat settled. I would return to kavalier’s earlier point that the literal interpretation of a shout that heals seems to invalidate that monk/cleric/priestess ability to heal.

draxynnic.3719:

I actually had a full reply written out. Still have it saved, in fact, since I wrote it out somewhere where I wasn’t able to log in. I will observe that your claims regarding the volcanic nature of berserker fire skills actually demonstrate my point – volcanic effects have previously only been seen in elementalist magic (both fire and earth). I don’t think you could have failed to realise that was a point that would be easily rebutted, which makes me wonder why you tried bringing it up in the first place…

Then I thought about how you’ve directly or indirectly insulted those who’ve engaged with you in this thread. And in the druid lore thread you opened. And how you started a thread basically asking for more suicides in the game, which for many people is a touchy topic. And so on.

Coupled with the fact that I don’t think I’ve seen anyone else in this thread actually agree with you, I don’t think there is anything to be gained in continuing this discussion.

If anyone else wants to see the rebuttal that I’ve already written, let me know and I will provide it, but only because I’ve already got it written out. However, I don’t intend to expend any additional energy here.

This is upsetting. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and went through the entirety of both threads about druids and I saw no insults I had made. Please use direct quotation or this is strawman. I looked at the thread asking for more suicides and I saw that in every breath that I advocates an increase I also mentioned the general lack of emotional depth of percieved. And what benefit do we have avoiding touchy subjects in this forum like suicide but not avoiding touchy one like race or sexuality. I don’t see why I am being held to a double standard for touchy topics
Volcanic effects have never been seen in earth magic. The sole skill I think people could refer to is eruption and that shakes the ground it does not relate to lava or magma.

You seem to have some personal fault with me. If I made some wrong allow me to correct it but this is getting ridiculous.

Pyro don’t you insult my baby temporal enchanter. Adding resistance to any boonstorm is a fragile beauty. No one want that scallywag alacrity when you can devote your life to boons. Perma resistance right. Right?

T. T oh God why. Please Anet fix the application of the trait to reflect the behavior of temporal curtain.

Immensus.9732:

Ive been playing Mesmer since i start playing gw2, i have made alts of amost every other class but Mesmer has taken 90% of my play time. 80% of my pvp matches are with mesmer. i liked and played almost all mesmer builds, PU condi, shatter, Lockdown, but i just cant make my self like the WELL`s based gameplay of chrono, its just so anti-mesmer-ish, to be more specific , although i can see its use in pvp, i just feel that lacks PvE usability.

Alacrity sharing increases party dps by more than a dedicated dps mesmer. The playstyle is similar to glamour bombs before they were nerfed, but that may be before your time. However the playstyle does need to be similar to any on mesmer because elite specs are supposed to give new playstyles.

draxynnic.3719:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I never thought I would see a person on this forum refuse out of game lore.

Considering that I was the one who initially made reference to Sea of Sorrows, specifically that passage if not as a direct quotation, I would think it was blindingly obvious that my intent was to correct the source rather than to refuse it as a valid source. That you could interpret otherwise, in combination with other observations, suggests to me that continuing this discussion is simply not going to be productive.

@Djahlet: In this case, I think there’s a distinction made between the types of spirits. The spirits invoked by rangers are spirits that inhabit the natural world (or, possibly more accurately, the portions of the Mists that overlap and mirror Tyria) and the magical effects they generate is elemental magic. The spirits invoked by ritualists are spirits of the dead or of more abstract concepts and emotions, and appear to come from ‘deeper’ in the Mists – the energy they use is very different to that of ranger spirits. The lightning-oriented skills of GW2 rangers appear to be part of a general theme of lower-key elemental magic that also includes fire (Flame Trap), water (Frost Trap, Winter’s Bite, Healing Spring) and earth (Signet of Stone, Muddy Terrain).

My point was that making such a comment is semantic for the lore of the novels and the lore of the books are the same universe. Your desire to correct is more evident than your desire for substance. You provide statements that the burning was based in weapon skills yet the Anthem of Flame among other skills contradicts this. You respond to the first sentence of a post and not the paragraphs within it. In another thread you correct points I’ve made yet you also make points that are presumptuous. Upon being challenged by other posters you retreat to that grounds that you espoused what you observed over that which is hypothetical.

Well we have observed paragons use adrenaline. We have observed that their non weapon uses of energy are related to flame. We have observed that for dervish flame and adrenaline are linked through bathalazar. We have observed that the game countless times equates adrenaline and anger. We have observed the relation between the smiting prayers and wrath.

Lets take what you have observed. You observed that the berserker summons rocks and you call this earth magic. Yet developers refer to them as magma, you should know full well that magma is fire magic not earth.

And then you cite the theory that rangers are from the same school of magic as elementalists. Which makes all the sense in the world given the spirits and the space magic. Because causing plants to grow is elemental apparently. A theoretical assertion, but definitely not an observed.

It’s only okay when you are theoretical it seems. You can say that spirits perform elemental magic as if it were fact, but others are not allowed.

Rizo.9534:

Tuomir.1830:

That’s why you use it AFTER F2, to stick the pet to the enemy (who, if a thief or mesmer, is likely to want to escape to stealth after being hit by a BM F2). Sic ‘Em is a pet command shout, all pet commands override each other, it’s nothing specific to Sic ’Em.

I want to empower birds, cats, drakes, spiders F2, not their autoattack, but i can’t.

I was under the impression that shouts and commands interrupted sic em but sic em did not interrupt commands. Is this not true? Would your bird not receive benefit if you simply commanded it and then used sick mid animation?

Fay.2357:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Pyro make me a chaos, inspiration, and domination build now please.

Alright, lets see here.

First, you need to figure out what you want the build to do. Chaos and domination together lend themselves to a solid interrupt base, so lets go with that as our base concept.

Next we need weapons. I’d lean towards GS+staff, but we’re taking inspiration as well, which means we have the option of traiting focus. I feel that the added condition removal and sustain from RI outweighs the benefits of focus though, especially given the reliability issues it has.

So we’re GS+staff in an interrupt build. We’ll take power block, SC, and CS in domination. Master of manips, chaotic dampening, and CI in chaos. Medic’s feedback (for lack of a better option), RI, and mental defense (because temporal enchanter is awful and illusionary inspiration screws with skill queuing).

We’ll definitely need mirror as the heal, since that’s got cdr from MoM and provides ranged protection. Blink is also important as usual, and then MoD, decoy, and MI round out the rest of the utilities; a pretty standard loadout. Marauder amulet, pack/vampirism runes depending on what floats your boat, your favorite sigils, etc.

Realistically, this’ll play very similarly to a standard dom/duel/chaos interrupt build. The difference is that you’ll have better defense and sustain primarily from RI, while being significantly harder to really unload with burst on someone. It’ll play ok, it just won’t be as good as the alternatives.

It was a question I knew the answer to. I just wanted to compare what you would envision to what I already produced. If you have not guessed it already this discussion goes heavily with boon share and the notion of whether supports should or could do damage.

I think I will switch over to dueling/chaos/chrono, and then replace dueling with chrono. More data is forthcoming.

Pyro make me a chaos, inspiration, and domination build now please.

Again why are people commenting in the revealed and not the 40 damage modifiers that stacks with other pet modifiers? And as far as I can tell sic em is not interrupted by anything other than guard which makes sense. Do people want reveal, which isn’t a role, so much that they would nerf beastmaster builds?

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

“Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.”

Except that wouldn’t raise the skill floor. At all. I’m simply saying, add some counterplay to CS because currently it’s extremely easy to use and the opponent can do very little to negate it. So add some counterplay to it. If some guy is fighting vs CS he should be able to do something to try and avoid it if he is skilled enough sso that he can also avoid mesmers burst.Or actually probably a better suggestion made my someone was to just to totally change what CS does. Which I think is a pretty good idea. Would let us create a skill that doesn’t overshine on the other two traits there in addition to dealing with CS. If I could go with either my original suggestion or totally changing what CS does I’d probably go with the second one. The question is, what would you replace it with? Something that fits with mesmer. Any ideas welcome. How about on interrupt create a clone with a 5-10 second CD?

EDIT: At this point IDK why I am surprised. After all, some of these guys were trolling in that mesmer dungeon chronomancer thread

Yes it would, and by quite a lot. Reducing the movement abilities of illusions makes them easier to kite. It would make it so people had to concentrate more on positioning their Illusions. Right now the only time we have to focus on positioning is for a chain daze.

Your argument is anecdotal and doesnt explain what should and shouldn’t have skill floors in this game. Extremely easy to use and no counterplay:
Auras
Stances
Virtues
Stat buffs that activate upon entering combat
…. Etc

You have to come up with some better explanation dude.

I am trying to to give you the benefit of the doubt but you keep repeating a non explanation.

You want counterplay to raise the skill floor. Tell us why.

draxynnic.3719:

Oh, and by the way, regarding your implicit accusation of hypocrisy:

draxynnic.3719:

We do actually have a case of a necromancer doing something like that – Naku, the necromancer in Tahnnakai Temple, sacrificed his life to summon an overly large army of minions and send them into the enemy.

Jennah’s illusion in Edge of Destiny is a pretty powerful example of what a mesmer can do without causing self-harm.

In terms of what you can do when the enemy is within weapons range of you, I think the professions genuinely are fairly even, assuming equal skill and so on. The differences are in what each profession can do if given time and resources. A warrior who’s out of sight and reach of the enemy is probably not doing anything useful (they might also be a smith or something, but that’s more of a complementary thing rather than part and parcel of being a warrior). A necromancer given time, corpses, and a source of magical energy, however, can turn themselves into a lich and become the undead lord of Elona, purely through the strength of their own necromancy, while the inventions of engineers an transform a society completely.

If push came to shove, I’d probably go with the following order, from most to least:

Necromancers
Engineers
Mesmers and elementalists
Guardians, rangers, and thieves
Warriors

I put necromancers first because while an engineer could arm an army, they still need loyal soldiers in order to wield them. A sufficiently powerful necromancer can raise their own. An exceptional mesmer or elementalist can turn the tide of a battle with a single powerful spell, but don’t have the ability to transform a society that necros and engies do. (Elementalists could theoretically create an army of elementals, but we’ve never heard of one building an army of elementals like the armies of undead we’ve seen created by necromancers sometimes. Mesmers might be able to mind-control people, but we’ve seen no evidence that they can do so on a societal level.)

Guardians, rangers, and thieves have some abilities to do things apart from simply fighting, but are probably still not able to go far beyond what we see in-game. While for warriors – what we see in-game is probably the extent of what they can do.

So I think I’ve made it fairly clear that what I’ve said there is my opinion, with the possible exception of that line you pulled out… and I think it’s safe to say that objectively, creating a nation of undead or setting off an industrial revolution is a more significant transformation of society than a little political manipulation.

Mesmers can block magic, what is a Lich with no magic. I love how you dance between I think and then objectively declare ability given resources. Yes there is hypocrisy there. Bolding the phrase of push came to shove doesn’t improve the context of a conclusion that came from analysis. You assert these definitions of ability in the same breath that I did. The only difference is you attempt to cite as if to declare it wasn’t a theory. Why even concern yourself with citing when given the introduction of HoT all you cite is meaningless. Your ranking is meaningless because it relates power to power in society.

Djahlat.9610:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Djahlat.9610:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Djahlat.9610:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Djahlat.9610:

Daniel Handler.4816:

As to another point you made. The ritualist spirits were made from lightning. Guardians have zero access to lightning. Guardians make everything they do out of a blue white or flame.

Oh. My. Kitten. God
I’m sorry but after that i just can’t take anything you say seriously
Props for making me spit out my tea while reading though

Your derision adds nothing to the conversation.

In gw1 ritualists used lighting and the spirits were composed of lightning. We know the later because when they ruptured they cause lightning damage.

We know guardians make everything out of bluewhite light/flame because that is what they do in the game and in the books. And thats what monks did in the game and the books. They are clearly able to synthesize the ability of other magic bases with the light manipulations of monks.

No they were not. Lightning was there only because it was the only way Ritualist could be directly offensive (as opposed to offensive through spirits or weapon spells). It’s also to mention that the closest profession in GW2 to Rit is Ranger.
I also don’t remember Ranger spirits vanishing away with lightning emanating from them when commanding them to sacrifice themselves. The Destruction spirit, or the Storm Spirit for GW2 Rangers are the only ones who inflict lightning-based damage by themselves.
Sure Rupture inflicts Lightning damage, but that’s just to make it fit with all other offensive Ritualist skills. I don’t know where you got the idea that the spirit itself was composed of lightning.
Again, basing yourself off Game Mechanics to establish false lore is totally flawed.
Also Monks don’t manipulate light, that’s more of the field of Mesmers and illusion-making. They afflicted Holy damage, which is completely different from Guardian (unless speaking about a Human Guardian whose faith resides in the Gods)

What are you even talking about at this point “lightning was there because it was the only way ritualists could be directly offensive” wtf. There are multiple energies in the game they didn’t have to pick lightning. Then you imply that the spirits of ritualists are the same as rangers.

“Breathe life back into the fallen. The miracle of rebirth…”

A flash of blue-white light surrounded Mordakai, and his body disappeared from the ground.

some things I say are not just based in game mechanics.

Ritualist Spirits and Ranger Spirits are the same, they even have the same wiki page, they just serve different purposes

Oh my lord. You are drawing lore by whether something is listed on the same wiki page? Ritualists spirits are from the underworld. Nature spirits are from nature. You refuse to consider lore that is from outside of the game and yet you use a wiki page layout as your proof.

The wiki page thing was added to further prove my claim. Although a Wiki page holds more weight Lore-wise than some game mechanic, but as you wish. If you want, then, just take a look at the Tablets of Wisdom in the Shing Jea Monastery. Spirits are the same.
While Ritualist forces them to make them do what he wants them to do (hence why the “BINDING ritual”), the Rangers spawns them and they’re neutral spirits (which is why they affect both allies and foes alike)
Also while Ritualist summons spirits that are the embodiment of Emotions, the Ranger will summon spirits that are the embodiment of Natural Forces. Both, to my knowledge, come from the Mists, given that they are SPIRITS.
Another strong correlation between Ranger and Ritualist could be the Ranger’s #2 Downed Skill ; Thunderclap, which can easily be associated with the Ritualist’s skills like Channeled Strike or Spirit Rift. Arguably, Lightning Reflexes also is a reference to the Ritualist’s Channeling Magic skills

I sincerely hope my own argument is not as convuluted as the connections you try to force here. Read what the tablets of shing say. They completely break the fourth wall. Your appeal to a skill type is the very reason why this whole discussion exists. Shouts are a skill type but they most definitely are not identical in form or function.

draxynnic.3719:

Daniel Handler.4816:

@dra "It’s a pile of Elonian protection magic, mixed with a little monk training, wrapped up in some crazy ritualist hoo-ha from Cantha. A real grab bag of “you can’t hurt me”. They’re called guardians, and simply put, they mean trouble." is how the game describes the Guardian mix. The berserker also has skills that produce adrenaline and fire but don’t consume it. And the paragon is closer to zerker than to elementalist. The only thing we can see in the current guardians of monks is the light manipulation. We keep coming back to faith as the presiding force yet we know that anger adds to all three.

That line was from Sea of Sorrows, not in-game as far as I know.

Paragons never throw fireballs. In fact, paragons never actually do fire damage at all, unless they have the fire weapon modifier, and that’s clearly a function of the weapon. This may seem a nitpick, except that we have precedents of other damage types such as holy (Holy Spear) and lightning (Spirit Burn) inflicting Burning.

Berserker magical effects are focused on conjuring flame and breaking the earth in a fashion that resembles earth magic. That takes the fire magic well beyond a handful of skills that inflict Burning, and in fact, takes it well beyond what the guardian or any of the guardian’s component parts had. And none of those component parts have earth magic of that form (if you count the dervish, most of its earth skills were based on self-protection or duststorms, not smashing rocks). The only other magic that resembles what berserkers do is elementalist magic.

(Incidentally, come to think on it, the animalistic graphic on Wild Blow is also reminiscent of Ranger melee attacks like Maul, which connects it to Ranger… and, from a theory of relationships of magic that I recognise that you resist but many people in the lore community accept, thereby connects it from one level removed to Elementalist.)

I never thought I would see a person on this forum refuse out of game lore.

You should look over paragon again. The Anthem of Flame, the blazing finale say hello. They were not limited to weapon skills to cause burning and their names signify their concept. You seem to reinforce the opposite because a paragon can only do lightning and holy damage with a spear.

What the paragon and the warrior and even the dervish did was tied adrenaline to flame. Your skill about fireballs is closest to the Guardian skill zealot’s defense. The fireballs of elementalist cannot destroy projectiles. The flames of elementalists have no relation to adrenaline. The earth manipulation you depict is volcanic and it’s comparable skills under elementalists are under fire magic.

Djahlat.9610:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Djahlat.9610:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Djahlat.9610:

Daniel Handler.4816:

As to another point you made. The ritualist spirits were made from lightning. Guardians have zero access to lightning. Guardians make everything they do out of a blue white or flame.

Oh. My. Kitten. God
I’m sorry but after that i just can’t take anything you say seriously
Props for making me spit out my tea while reading though

Your derision adds nothing to the conversation.

In gw1 ritualists used lighting and the spirits were composed of lightning. We know the later because when they ruptured they cause lightning damage.

We know guardians make everything out of bluewhite light/flame because that is what they do in the game and in the books. And thats what monks did in the game and the books. They are clearly able to synthesize the ability of other magic bases with the light manipulations of monks.

No they were not. Lightning was there only because it was the only way Ritualist could be directly offensive (as opposed to offensive through spirits or weapon spells). It’s also to mention that the closest profession in GW2 to Rit is Ranger.
I also don’t remember Ranger spirits vanishing away with lightning emanating from them when commanding them to sacrifice themselves. The Destruction spirit, or the Storm Spirit for GW2 Rangers are the only ones who inflict lightning-based damage by themselves.
Sure Rupture inflicts Lightning damage, but that’s just to make it fit with all other offensive Ritualist skills. I don’t know where you got the idea that the spirit itself was composed of lightning.
Again, basing yourself off Game Mechanics to establish false lore is totally flawed.
Also Monks don’t manipulate light, that’s more of the field of Mesmers and illusion-making. They afflicted Holy damage, which is completely different from Guardian (unless speaking about a Human Guardian whose faith resides in the Gods)

What are you even talking about at this point “lightning was there because it was the only way ritualists could be directly offensive” wtf. There are multiple energies in the game they didn’t have to pick lightning. Then you imply that the spirits of ritualists are the same as rangers.

“Breathe life back into the fallen. The miracle of rebirth…”

A flash of blue-white light surrounded Mordakai, and his body disappeared from the ground.

some things I say are not just based in game mechanics.

Ritualist Spirits and Ranger Spirits are the same, they even have the same wiki page, they just serve different purposes

Oh my lord. You are drawing lore by whether something is listed on the same wiki page? Ritualists spirits are from the underworld. Nature spirits are from nature.

Warlock.7136:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I played a celestial glint/malyx build in the melee train. It was a perfect bruiser. This is in comparison to a d/d ele which is also a bruiser but cannot survive in the melee train.

ty for this post. what weapon(s) were you using?

a/sh+staff, with the amount of stab I get on dodge, the glint heal and the malyx resistance/heal, you 1vx with absolute ease.

specializations were herald, corruption, and retribution.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Fay.2357:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Hard stop. Show us proof of negative impact on the game other than a lower skill floor.

You argue all of these semantic but where is any proof.

You have not even had the audacity to show theoretical proof.

Every single comment you made is on anecdotal experience. And we have seen the number of incorrect conclusions from that.

Revenant, mesmer, engie can all have near perma stability. And the non mesmer perma is tied to passive play.

More importantly every single class in the freaking game has a trait that responds to being cced. Some classes even have two.

The kicker to this maelstrom of logic is that you want to balance around wvw. Where stability is readily available for the melee train. You want to balance it for the backline that gets ganked despite evidence such as the pirate ship meta that this would further destabilize the mode. Guarding the backline is part of the strategy of WvW and you seem to just want to make pew pew easier.

’Revenant, mesmer, engie can all have near perma stability. And the non mesmer perma is tied to passive play."

At a pretty high cost such as camping FL etc. And not just WvW zergs. Both WvW roaming and dueling arenas in PvP. in fact not about zerging really at all.

“More importantly every single class in the freaking game has a trait that responds to being cced. Some classes even have two.”

And how many of them do you actually want to take that whole traitline for? All I want is some more counterplay but I guess that’s ridiculous lol.

@Fay

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Confounding-Suggestions-Suggestion/first

Well you can start complaining about this “proof” or whatever when you give some “proof” as to why you would have nerfed it in that thread. Litterly, why would I change it? What reason? Already gave it to you. More counterplay.

Sure thing! Unlike you, I can always stand behind my ideas with solid arguments.

Too many Mesmer mechanics are inordinately skewed towards single target effectiveness. CS is no exception; stun one person aaaaaand that’s it. I wanted to balance it more between multi-target effectiveness and single target effectiveness. Simply making the icd local would drastically boost its strength far too much, so the simple fix is to adjust the icd so that the maximum rate of stunning balances out well for a small group fight, and scales up smoothly into a large fight.

Edit: it’s also worth mentioning that I floated that idea before Mesmer received a string of hefty nerfs to our burst capabilities. At that time, we absolutely were overturned. Now…well, you’ve missed that ship by a couple months.

All that was just your opinion. Sry. Proof! :P

@Daniel

Why do I think CS should have more counterplay? Because it would promote more skill. If you good enough instead of eating a stun you can cancel cast your abilities.

And the reason you want to promote more skill? Mesmer has the third highest skill cap in the game. Do you want to raise us to elementalist tier? Part of the skill tier is based in the sheer amount of instant skills. Lets raise the difficulty at which we chain our numerous instant skills together. Complex positioning of pets is too easy already. Lets make it so all phantasms are crippled by default. Raise the skill floor.

No one seems to truly understand. Everything in the game needs counterplay. So my new idea is that unblockable cannot trigger auras. Even counterplay needs counterplay. So reveal need counter reveal, unblockable needs super block, moa needs to not kill minions or prevent transformation, just maybe decrease the length of the transform by that of moa so that 20 seconds transfomrs still get 10seconds. Auras also get aura slicer. Condition cleanse is too good against condi builds so uncleanseable conditions needs to be added. But added to that should be cleanses for uncleanseable conditions.

Fay.2357:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Hard stop. Show us proof of negative impact on the game other than a lower skill floor.

You argue all of these semantic but where is any proof.

You have not even had the audacity to show theoretical proof.

Every single comment you made is on anecdotal experience. And we have seen the number of incorrect conclusions from that.

Revenant, mesmer, engie can all have near perma stability. And the non mesmer perma is tied to passive play.

More importantly every single class in the freaking game has a trait that responds to being cced. Some classes even have two.

The kicker to this maelstrom of logic is that you want to balance around wvw. Where stability is readily available for the melee train. You want to balance it for the backline that gets ganked despite evidence such as the pirate ship meta that this would further destabilize the mode. Guarding the backline is part of the strategy of WvW and you seem to just want to make pew pew easier.

No proof will be forthcoming. I do, however, look to the future and see another poorly quoted diatribe about how CS is so op that us plebs just can’t wrap our heads around it.

You just dont understand. CS is OP because you stun every five seconds. No other class can do this. It is not fair. I also don’t like portal. It is not fair that a mesmer can just decap the point and then return. There is no counterplay to this other than standing at the point. But even portal is not as OP as CS. Every five seconds matches up perfectly with MoD this synergy is just too strong. Because you can stun someone every 5 seconds. If I do it to an ele they have to use a stunbreaker, but they cant use another one five seconds later, so if they use a stunbreaker that is not armor of earth, I can just stun them again. But its every 5 seconds, so even if I mess up the opening I can do it again, and they have no way to react to it, cause I could save it and because people cannot react to animations that happen in 1-2 seconds. You know before we couldn’t stun people every five seconds and we did just fine, but now that we can stun people every 5 seconds everything has changed, the mesmer has become the dominant player in all game modes. It use to mean something to be a shatter mesmer, not as much as a d/d ele even with a comparable skill cap, but still it meant something, now it means nothing because we stun every five seconds. And harmonious mantras shouldnt exist because it allow us to stun every five seconds even more. If you can’t see why stunning every five seconds is OP then something is wrong with you because i shoundt even have to explain it.

Aomine.5012:

Coldtart.4785:

He’s not comparing revenant to ranger, he’s comparing salvation to druid.

Druid is part of ranger.

Should I tell you your Herald is not part of Revenant because it’s your elite specialization? I think not.

I’m confused.
Salvation is a specialization, druid is an elite specialization. Are you saying that the elite specializations should be superior? Or are you afraid of being left out of the meta again? Because it was never ANET’s guarantee that they would make classes meta, only give them a different playstyle..

The Druid packs almost constant immobilize and daze. That in itself makes it valuable in HoT. To be the superior healer in everything goes against the no trinity philosophy.

Knighthonor.4061:

I say having energy reduction on Tablet for those that spec into Ventari specialization, and can have a trait that make the energy cost scale with Healing Power you currently wearing. This so it doesnt become overpowered for Zerker specced Revenants.

It would never become overpowered because each revenant heal does 140% less to you than to allies. Even if you only reduced energy costs, the zerker would get more from the other stance’s heals.