Guild Wars 2

Fay.2357:

Menaka.5092:

it’s a weird question tho… you’re looking for a build for doing what in which gamemode?

He’s not looking for a build, he’s making a point.

That’s incorrect. I’m theorycrafting a build that uses chaos and inspiration but it is not coming together well. Part of the issue is the almost required use of greatsword in PvP.

Hard stop. Show us proof of negative impact on the game other than a lower skill floor.

You argue all of these semantic but where is any proof.

You have not even had the audacity to show theoretical proof.

Every single comment you made is on anecdotal experience. And we have seen the number of incorrect conclusions from that.

Revenant, mesmer, engie can all have near perma stability. And the non mesmer perma is tied to passive play.

More importantly every single class in the freaking game has a trait that responds to being cced. Some classes even have two.

The kicker to this maelstrom of logic is that you want to balance around wvw. Where stability is readily available for the melee train. You want to balance it for the backline that gets ganked despite evidence such as the pirate ship meta that this would further destabilize the mode. Guarding the backline is part of the strategy of WvW and you seem to just want to make pew pew easier.

Djahlat.9610:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Djahlat.9610:

Daniel Handler.4816:

As to another point you made. The ritualist spirits were made from lightning. Guardians have zero access to lightning. Guardians make everything they do out of a blue white or flame.

Oh. My. Kitten. God
I’m sorry but after that i just can’t take anything you say seriously
Props for making me spit out my tea while reading though

Your derision adds nothing to the conversation.

In gw1 ritualists used lighting and the spirits were composed of lightning. We know the later because when they ruptured they cause lightning damage.

We know guardians make everything out of bluewhite light/flame because that is what they do in the game and in the books. And thats what monks did in the game and the books. They are clearly able to synthesize the ability of other magic bases with the light manipulations of monks.

No they were not. Lightning was there only because it was the only way Ritualist could be directly offensive (as opposed to offensive through spirits or weapon spells). It’s also to mention that the closest profession in GW2 to Rit is Ranger.
I also don’t remember Ranger spirits vanishing away with lightning emanating from them when commanding them to sacrifice themselves. The Destruction spirit, or the Storm Spirit for GW2 Rangers are the only ones who inflict lightning-based damage by themselves.
Sure Rupture inflicts Lightning damage, but that’s just to make it fit with all other offensive Ritualist skills. I don’t know where you got the idea that the spirit itself was composed of lightning.
Again, basing yourself off Game Mechanics to establish false lore is totally flawed.
Also Monks don’t manipulate light, that’s more of the field of Mesmers and illusion-making. They afflicted Holy damage, which is completely different from Guardian (unless speaking about a Human Guardian whose faith resides in the Gods)

What are you even talking about at this point “lightning was there because it was the only way ritualists could be directly offensive” wtf. There are multiple energies in the game they didn’t have to pick lightning. Then you imply that the spirits of ritualists are the same as rangers.

“Breathe life back into the fallen. The miracle of rebirth…”

A flash of blue-white light surrounded Mordakai, and his body disappeared from the ground.

some things I say are not just based in game mechanics.

dsslive.8473:

Daniel Handler.4816:

@dss a strange thing in this thread is that I have mentioned extreme emotion as much if not more than suicide in this thread. I understand the title is a bit of a buzzword but I always said that this was part of a larger trend in the series.

I mentioned demographic because when a you comment on transgender you get into a topic that is based on human genetic mutations.

Humans regardless of genes cannot simply become transgender/gay but all humans have the capacity to show extreme emotions. Depression is just one of those extreme emotions.

Yes, i didn’t quite understand what you meant but you’re right regarding the comparison f.ex. to transgender representation, get what you’re saying now.

I think, mostly in my last post i misread a sentence that made me go more towards suicide/depression, when you meant that it was supposed to be about grief/rage. that’s what you get for tryng to read fast :p

Personally i love darker stories, think there was jsut a hang up on the whole depression/suicide angle which took it away from the purpose of the thread.
So i totally agree on having a darker storyline.

Yeah there definitely was a hang up on the suicide part. I suppose the title could be clearer.

The hilarious thing though is the people who mention minority representation. As if emotions were part of a genetic minority. People use SJW despite having no idea what the label refers to.

Like this commenter

Oh you’re making it so hard not to judge you…
There is no need for every game to present the full spectrum of emotions, there is no need for every game to presents the full spectrum of personalities, sexuality, races, nationalities etc.

The later have nothing to do with the former. They treat realistic portrayals of emotion in a setting as not a given of any non light fantasy.

Making characters darker has so very little to do with race. Yet people treat this as if I’m asking for demographic/diversity and not artistic merit.

After the disastrous events surrounding Caederyn and Ceara one would think the Pale Tree treats secondborn and younger differently now. Have we seen any instance of this?

Because as it seems with Canachs dialogue nothing has changed. Even worse the amount of C names has increased.

draxynnic.3719:

In this case and in this thread, my main objection is to how you said it rather than what you said – in that you stated it in the authoritative voice rather than the subjective voice. Someone reading that could come away with the impression that what you said is actually explicitly stated somewhere and you were paraphrasing canon.

Starting with something along the lines of ‘my theory is…’, in this case, would be sufficient. I still disagree with it, but here isn’t the place to discuss that and I don’t want to derail the thread. But I did want to make sure that readers were aware that you were giving your own theory rather than summarising known canon.

Then I would place the burden on both. Given that you objectively declare mesmers unable to change society at the level of a necromancer or engie, yet we know full well evidence of the opposite.

The level of political shifts a mesmer can create is enough to alter a society. A mesmer could sever a lichs control over its minions. We have seen the reintroduction of time magic. The ability to influence outcome and alter reality still trumps all.

Djahlat.9610:

Daniel Handler.4816:

As to another point you made. The ritualist spirits were made from lightning. Guardians have zero access to lightning. Guardians make everything they do out of a blue white or flame.

Oh. My. Kitten. God
I’m sorry but after that i just can’t take anything you say seriously
Props for making me spit out my tea while reading though

Your derision adds nothing to the conversation.

In gw1 ritualists used lighting and the spirits were composed of lightning. We know the later because when they ruptured they cause lightning damage.

We know guardians make everything out of bluewhite light/flame because that is what they do in the game and in the books. And thats what monks did in the game and the books. They are clearly able to synthesize the ability of other magic bases with the light manipulations of monks.

@dra "It’s a pile of Elonian protection magic, mixed with a little monk training, wrapped up in some crazy ritualist hoo-ha from Cantha. A real grab bag of “you can’t hurt me”. They’re called guardians, and simply put, they mean trouble." is how the game describes the Guardian mix. The berserker also has skills that produce adrenaline and fire but don’t consume it. And the paragon is closer to zerker than to elementalist. The only thing we can see in the current guardians of monks is the light manipulation. We keep coming back to faith as the presiding force yet we know that anger adds to all three.

@dss a strange thing in this thread is that I have mentioned extreme emotion as much if not more than suicide in this thread. I understand the title is a bit of a buzzword but I always said that this was part of a larger trend in the series.

I mentioned demographic because when a you comment on transgender you get into a topic that is based on human genetic mutations.

Humans regardless of genes cannot simply become transgender/gay but all humans have the capacity to show extreme emotions. Depression is just one of those extreme emotions.

Are there any good builds out there that don’t use dueling or chrono?

Nox Lucis.8341:

Ehecatl.9172:

I don’t understand. Are you saying the franchise isn’t good unless it’s loaded with suicides?

I am channeling the ghost of William Shakespeare right now. He says “Yes”.

I am channeling myself and I say no. What I do say is that the game has a poor track record of showing extreme emotion of any kind. The characters stand still as they deliver their lines, and many times the lines they deliver bear no relation on the mood of the situation itself.

The concepts of charm, dignity, and ferocity are gone.

I played a celestial glint/malyx build in the melee train. It was a perfect bruiser. This is in comparison to a d/d ele which is also a bruiser but cannot survive in the melee train.

Aomine.5012:

naturesoul.3578:

keep in mind natural mender trait is a minor trait for druid, and gives upto 20% outgoing healing, without taking up a grandmaster trait, and on average Rev version is only 7 to 10% more outgoing healing and takes up a coveted grandmaster trait choice.
Just FYI.

It’s like saying Chronomencer’s speed 25% trait -condition duration is minor while everyone else need to waste a Major.

Compare the slot advantages is pointless because none of them are ever fair.

Disregard slot advantage. Contemplate the number of traits revenant has to take to even reach druids base. If a class can reach 140% outgoing heal increase and still be outperformed at sustain then something is wrong.

Ross Biddle.2367:

So its time for another summary.

Frenchfry’s beef pretty much boils down to-

• “I want more counterplay to CS”

Ignoring, despite it having been pointed out, that there are numerous counters. The question thus becomes “How much more?” Though it’s not been asked/answered, the preemptive argument tacked on to the previously stated “I want more counterplay” is-

• “I don’t want to see mesmer butchered into oblivion. Hell, have some more buffs if you want, on me!”

So in exchange for playing a high risk, glass, high damage based build that can truly utilize the CC effect of CS under MoD, we can have…. more damage? More blinks? More evades? What I want to know is, what good is more of any of this in a high risk build where the landing of your burst is everything? And not just your role, but your very survival depends on your ability to land that burst to apply pressure. Failure to do so means you’re at a severe disadvantage.

More over, MoD + CS is hardly just an offensive tool. It can be used simply to create breathing room (get that thief off your back for a second to pop a heal), or to stop someone getting away (stun into iLeap imob), no damage necessary. The fact you think all MoD + CS charges are spent on GS bursts only further cements the ignorance of the realities within actual gameplay you’ve continued throughout this discussion. If I had a dollar for every MoD charge I’ve had to burn saving a downed allie, or getting a GS warrior off my back, Id buy Bill Gates.

And all this is still ignoring all the counterplay that is present in the game… -_-u

Like I said, you really undermined yourself early on in this discussion. You used CS early on after patch and haven’t touched it since. CS is a great trait, it has good synergy with MoD, and even better in skilled hands with MA or PB. But given the rest of Mesmers features as they currently stand, it’s hardly some one shot, CS/MoD wins all OP powerhouse that requires changing, or at least changing in any way which you’ve suggested thus far.

This.
My last use of the trait was to run away from a nike warrior and his posse. I knew without a doubt that if didn’t stun them they would gap close and kill me. Instead I got 1.25 seconds of swifted movement distance between us and a blink off. They got close enough that I fired a second charge, and by that time I had steath off cooldown and lived to tell the tale.

Mightybird.6034:

already an entire thread devoted to what people did what people ran and what people found fun or underpowered;
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/revenant/BWE3-Revenant-Feedback-Thread/first
I think you just want to whine at this point.

A thing you don’t have to read or comment on.

@OP There are 9 possible builds with revenant but they all can perform two roles.

The roles of the other classes are more expressed in their traitlines so they come away with more combinations however this doesn’t give them superior power. The revenant has the ability to be any role in the game either through stance or through hybrid but with the caveat of range. It is not something terrible just something different. I get some of your worries, I have similar ones myself, but you will have to wait and see.

denis.9487:

Fay.2357:

denis.9487:

Regardless the amount of players playing at that level it tells us what is viable. The skill is what is present. They have practiced honed and devoted many hours we simply don’t have or don’t want to allot to become at that level. If looking at physical skill (10 fingers) then all that is needed is practice. The people at that level have tried other builds I’m sure just due to the sheer amount of time to perfect the skill. So it is meta for a reason. Whether we can do the same is irrelevant. It shows what is viable.

Sorta. It also shows us what they enjoy playing the most. Helseth probably could have done better on thief for a long time, but he stubbornly stuck with mesmer (not judging him for that, just pointing it out).

I’m saving this post!! Fay agreed sorta

Screenshotted and framed.

If you don’t need phantasm to burst than this isn’t a proper 1v1. And these aren’t proper 1v1 anyway if you are bringing wvw into this.

BV longer cd is the same as any venom on thief. Elite is just a slot. They had opportunity to deal with CS when they nerfed mirror blade they chose not to. Not only that they reduced the cooldown on MoD to be more fair.

Yes, however, as the trait functions now you will get 1 stack of might and not 16.

Jski.6180:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Jski.6180:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I entered into a similar discussion on revenant.

For the shape-shifting classes they are jacks of all trades masters of none. But the lack of mastery is simply that they cannot perform roles simultaneously, not that they can’t be the best in a role with one of their forms.

Tempest is better sustain but worse burst.

Tempest oddly is realy good burst dmg and heal (not at the same time mind you.) Water overload and shouts is very powerful healing all at once. Air overload is realy good dmg and if build right lets you land big hits after your dong casting it.

What tempest lets you do though is go all in on healing / support but you keep a lot of DPS dmg somthing druid needs to give up.

What druid will end up doing is make condition cleaning not as must have for ele you can still run all in water line but now you can take thing like powerful aura and with its 600 ranges it works on all wepon sets.

Any dps loss is hard to compare as elementalist has the best dps in the game.

However, the druid is not giving up anything in terms of trait lines.

Your standard power survival build runs the two defensive lines and beastmastery. A marksmanship/druid/x gives up one defensive line in favour of the more offensive marksmanship, a suitable variant in the original build. And they give up one defensive line in favour of the more defensive druid line. Most likely they take beastmastery and the build has only swapped one defensive line for another.

I don’t get what people are concerned they are losing in dps.

Ele has realy good burst and zone dps tempest even if you do not build for dmg dose a lot of dmg due to overloads its kind of crazy how much these do dmg even if your not build for it.

What druid gives up is more ranged base. A lot of its “good” heal is in the 300 ranges where ranger and druid weapons tend to be 1,200 ranged. You give up the abitly to sit back in an safe ranges if you want to realy heal/support and dmg. Tempest can be in the melee and heal well as well as being some what an healer in the back line with staff. The boon of having water fields on grond targets effect vs just having it on you.

I am thinking scraper may be the best melee water class in the game though for wvw it may become part of the GWEN set up so GWEtNrs (some one got to think of a good word to spell there i sux at spelling lol).

You are wrong on ranger weapons as greatsword is just as powerful as longbow. And a tempest has to be in melee for most of their heals. Ranged placement of water fields means nothing in mobile encounters.

When was sic em about the reveal? It is one of the only stackable damage modifiers available to the pet. Why nerf beastmaster builds?

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Khyber.1284:

Oddly I’ve never seen anyone complain about MoD, Well until now. Why can’t I just be a mesmer in peace!?!?

If your referring to me I ain’t complaining about MoD. I’m complaining about CS. And I said you can buff some other mesmer thing so you can be in peace.

@Silverkey

Basilisk venom has a longer CD ( granted not by much depending on how long you wait to use your second charge ), is an elite, and you can more easily predict steal from newer players if they aren’t in stealth. And with MoD you can save your second charge for later. In addition this is presuming he uses steal and not some other skill that has a animation if he isn’t in stealth. Or the thief could use a stealth ability but some classes can interrupt that.

You mean BV takes up an elite slot and neither class is centered around which elites they must take. The survival of one is reduced versus the survival of another. They get three survival based utilities we are limited to two. There is no cd on their burst, there is on ours. Your comparison is lacking.

Silverkey was the guy trying to make the comparison between BV and MoD with CS not me. I’m a bit confused as to what your saying. My whole thing tho with elite comparison is BV is a ELITE which is supposed to be more powerful than a utility. And by burst I presume you mean backstab? That does have a CD. It’s called the CD of revealed + them getting stealth.

I know what he said. I am saying your response was inadequate.

A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users. Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst. And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.

The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.

You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.

“A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users.”

Confused as to what your saying here. Are you saying MoD gives off a five second burst window?

“Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst.”

yeah they don’t have any abilities that have a five second channel. Is that what your saying? You have to be more clear.

“And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.”

Yeah, meanwhile thieves give up a elite spot.

“The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.”

How so? MoD has a shorter CD than BV unless you wait a while to use your second charge. In addition you can dodge the thieves attacks so there is a lot of counterplay unlike CS.

“You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.”

Except you can dodge most stuns or immobilizes. CS however doesn’t have a animation. And the counter isn’t stunbreakers or cleanses if you don’t have time before your bursted.

Sorry bout that.

MoD would be more useful on a thief. They can burst every 5 seconds. Mesmers cannot so you are asking for them to hold onto their charge for another 20 seconds to get the next greatsword burst up. On first engagement BV has a shorter cooldown. If you know your stuff you can time it so BV has 20 seconds left. You can also instantly recharge it on a 1 in 5 chance with each steal.

The fact BV is an elite is not a curse but a benefit. Mesmers would greatly prefer MoD was an elite. Our elites are situational, not a regular aspect of the build like a thief.

It also makes me wonder why if such action was so easy why the community moved away from using mantras and towards MA+PU.

Lethality is the question. Not quality of use.

Hardly 20 seconds for another GS burst.

’The fact BV is an elite is not a curse but a benefit. Mesmers would greatly prefer MoD was an elite. Our elites are situational, not a regular aspect of the build like a thief."

I wouldn’t say this at all. Mass invisibility is great.

’ On first engagement BV has a shorter cooldown."

True, on first engagement. But the main point is there is counterplay to BV because most of the thief’s attacks have animations. The exception is steal. I would argue vs bad thieves this is pretty easy to predict they all just blow it at range pretty predictably. Not to mention you only need one stunbreak for BV compared to the two charges of MoD with CS. And the idea is elites are supposed to be more powerful than utilities.

@Silverkey

“I would argue that in many cases, the utility slot is more expensive than the elite slot (because of the few elite choices).”

I would hardly say that. Elites are supposed to be more powerful than utilities pretty sure.

“You can hardly dodge “steal”, so the initial burst is exactly as counterable for both professions. As for “thief is better off”, then we start to get into sloppy discussions.

The fact is simply that a-net gave stealth, burst and an instant disabling skill to both mesmer and thief. There is no ton of counterplay to the initial burst but one burst won’t kill you and there is enough time between the bursts for you to recover and start to retaliate."

Now you force the thief to use steal. And like I said you only need one stunbreak for this compared to two charge of MoD. And I would aruge it’s easier to predict newer thieves steal ( they all pop it at range ) compared to MoD.

“There is no problem in high MMR, as shown by the fact that most mesmers there do not use MoD.”

Exactly my point, which is why I think it should get balanced around where it is taken ( WvW ).

’There are plenty of not-so-hard to play but powerful-if-not-countered-properly specs in the game."

But that’s my hole problem, there isn’t much of a counter in some specs vs CS. That’s all I’m wanting and I feel like half the people in the thread think I’m simply wanting to butcher mesmer into oblivion. Simply add some counterplay to CS and buff some other mesmer thing and I’d be happy.

A GS burst without the phantasm is hardly a burst especially after the mirror blade nerf.

To argue around WvW is absolutely ridiculous when the entirety of counterplay to casters is stunning and ganking them. This is a well known part of wvw that has existed before CS even existed.These same people will die to immobilize. All of the effects of this trait and immobilize are not geared towards the melee train, so it seems you have some sort of hangup on protecting low health classes from being ganked.

Your concept of elites is just wrong. The more powerful a skill the higher its cd/initiative/energy. Signet of Stone is a stronger skills than entangle. Elite literally means that it occupies an additional slot at this point.

Why would I care about losing mass invisibility when I could have Portal, decoy, blink, mod?

Lauriewonnacott.9841:

Don’t forget about hammer guys. Hammer is part of why it’s viable. It’s decent long range damage and the rotation for it is EXTREMELY easy and reliable in terms of how much energy you’ll have, so micromanaging a tablet isn’t hard at all. All you really have to do is push 2 every couple of AAs. In addition to that, you’re pretty good at bursting a break bar like a druid is meant to be with the staff 5, the hammer 5, and the tablet. I don’t think this is every going to be as reliable as people want it to be in the open world, but with new encounters I think we’re absolutely going to see use for a Ventari Rev in some degree of healing gear. Everyone is getting a little too into the hard trinity all of a sudden. This still isn’t that – if anything we’re just going to see mostly hybrid builds.

You cannot press two. To maintain a 2000hps you can only auto and use heal. To bump to a higher hps for 4 seconds you lose the ability to do much else..

@chok
And please stop referring to the fact revenant is a role-based professions as indicative of your point. The ele has fire and water but no one nerfs cleric elementalist water abilities in fact they out perform guardian’s healing abilities in everything but sustain. Ele fire surpasses all . The professions are just separated so they don’t have access to their abilities at once. The role they perform they do extremely well.

So Druid is as Roy has said suppose to be worse at sustain.

Increase druids burst decease it’d sustain.
Increase ventari sustain decrease it’s burst.
This way you gave very clear healing roles across all professions that can be called support healers.

denis.9487:

Regardless the amount of players playing at that level it tells us what is viable. The skill is what is present. They have practiced honed and devoted many hours we simply don’t have or don’t want to allot to become at that level. If looking at physical skill (10 fingers) then all that is needed is practice. The people at that level have tried other builds I’m sure just due to the sheer amount of time to perfect the skill. So it is meta for a reason. Whether we can do the same is irrelevant. It shows what is viable.

This is partially what I intended by this discussion. Not some appeal to authority.

Treat them like field researchers, the data they provide is helpful to the aggregate knowledge of any discipline. There is a usefulness to the class as a whole that we bemoan simply because we don’t like the individual.

I want to see how an expert level mesmer fares against a Dragonhunter. And not from a theoretical standpoint.

draxynnic.3719:

I don’t have much time to post right now, but I wanted to put it on the record that what Daniel is confidently posting as fact there are his own theories – some of which matches up with others, some of which is opposed by pretty much everyone in the threads he’s put them forward in.

Would like me to simplify it to the reality that we don’t know much of anything beyond the theoretical in this aspect? Absolutely everything posted in this thread and this forum on this topic is some degree theoretical. To ask for power rankings without receiving an assumption of power is poor argument.

What meaning is a person with a bench who can killed at range by most casters. What meaning is a characters physical qualities when magic is limitless.

And what meaning is this discussion without theories on that limit. Otherwise mesmer wins every discussion on this ever.

draxynnic.3719:

If you’re going to focus on names, what about the basic one? ArenaNet could have gone with ‘rage’ or ‘fury’ or something like that as the name for the mechanic, as with WoW warriors and D3 Barbarians. They didn’t, instead going with the more neutral term, leaving adrenaline as something more neutral. It’s… something that builds up through physical exertion and combat, and just like in real life, getting angry can help get the adrenaline flowing faster… but anger having the potential to feed adrenaline does not been that adrenaline is anger.

There are a lot of skills that build adrenaline in GW1 that are not anger-related (Dragon Slash being the most obvious), although admittedly in those cases they could be and it simply isn’t called out.

Daniel Handler.4816:

I already made the point you seem to think I I did not make.

“All I see when I look at Guardian is a paragon that chose light manipulation as a way to have access to flame but with the added defensive ability to form it into constructs under ritualist principles.”

I don’t think that refutes my point. ArenaNet could have made the guardian torch skills a more normal flame colour instead of blue. They could have made the berserker skills blue flame if they’re intended to be using the same energy. They did, initially, make the mesmer skill The Prestige generate a burst of ordinary-coloured flame, and then they shifted it to purple.

The colour of a magical effect – when not overridden by the physical manifestation of the effect producing its own colour, such as most elementalist skills – does seem to be an indication of the nature of the magic being used. Even elementalists have an associated colour when you pay close attention to the arcane skills, which is close to the green-gold effects

The fire used by guardians and berserkers being so different in appearance, to me, seems a strong indication that they are in fact different in nature. Furthermore, when you look at the berserker, as well as fire you see them using skills that move into earth manipulation: summoning a rock and punching it, causing ruptures in the earth by slamming it with a hammer, and so on. That’s a distinct difference from the guardian, which never breaks the ground in this way. When you compare to the other analogues, such as thief to mesmer – the things that the thief does that are clearly magic are also things that the mesmer can do, although the thief is more specialised in certain areas and can do better in those areas than the mesmer. Since these earth-based effects are not possessed by the guardian, I’m inclined to think that warriors are not simply guardians that are a few points towards Might on the Might versus Magic scale.

One elephant in the room that we haven’t addressed when regarding fire magic, as well, is the elementalist. We haven’t been told much directly about what the psychology of elementalists is (while we have been told explicitly that guardians are empowered by faith, not anger), except that they take a more scholarly attitude to magic. However, without having any adrenaline mechanic at all, it is worth noting that a lot of fire-specialised NPC elementalists in Guild Wars 1 tended to be mercurial in temperament and easily angered. The connection between anger and fire magic might actually be there, with the modern elementalist shifting emotional states as they shift attunements.

Fire magic cannot be added to the discussion because of the bloodstones. The possibility that elementalist and paragons drew from the same source is more than unlikely.

As to another point you made. The ritualist spirits were made from lightning. Guardians have zero access to lightning. Guardians make everything they do out of a blue white or flame.

The analogies you make to Guardian don’t work because we know it synthesizes professions from at least two separate magic sources.

The comparison of mesmer and thief is comparable to paragon and warrior. Whatever light manipulation of monks you wish to refer to bears no relation to that comparison.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Khyber.1284:

Oddly I’ve never seen anyone complain about MoD, Well until now. Why can’t I just be a mesmer in peace!?!?

If your referring to me I ain’t complaining about MoD. I’m complaining about CS. And I said you can buff some other mesmer thing so you can be in peace.

@Silverkey

Basilisk venom has a longer CD ( granted not by much depending on how long you wait to use your second charge ), is an elite, and you can more easily predict steal from newer players if they aren’t in stealth. And with MoD you can save your second charge for later. In addition this is presuming he uses steal and not some other skill that has a animation if he isn’t in stealth. Or the thief could use a stealth ability but some classes can interrupt that.

You mean BV takes up an elite slot and neither class is centered around which elites they must take. The survival of one is reduced versus the survival of another. They get three survival based utilities we are limited to two. There is no cd on their burst, there is on ours. Your comparison is lacking.

Silverkey was the guy trying to make the comparison between BV and MoD with CS not me. I’m a bit confused as to what your saying. My whole thing tho with elite comparison is BV is a ELITE which is supposed to be more powerful than a utility. And by burst I presume you mean backstab? That does have a CD. It’s called the CD of revealed + them getting stealth.

I know what he said. I am saying your response was inadequate.

A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users. Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst. And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.

The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.

You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.

“A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users.”

Confused as to what your saying here. Are you saying MoD gives off a five second burst window?

“Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst.”

yeah they don’t have any abilities that have a five second channel. Is that what your saying? You have to be more clear.

“And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.”

Yeah, meanwhile thieves give up a elite spot.

“The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.”

How so? MoD has a shorter CD than BV unless you wait a while to use your second charge. In addition you can dodge the thieves attacks so there is a lot of counterplay unlike CS.

“You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.”

Except you can dodge most stuns or immobilizes. CS however doesn’t have a animation. And the counter isn’t stunbreakers or cleanses if you don’t have time before your bursted.

Sorry bout that.

MoD would be more useful on a thief. They can burst every 5 seconds. Mesmers cannot so you are asking for them to hold onto their charge for another 20 seconds to get the next greatsword burst up. On first engagement BV has a shorter cooldown. If you know your stuff you can time it so BV has 20 seconds left. You can also instantly recharge it on a 1 in 5 chance with each steal.

The fact BV is an elite is not a curse but a benefit. Mesmers would greatly prefer MoD was an elite. Our elites are situational, not a regular aspect of the build like a thief.

It also makes me wonder why if such action was so easy why the community moved away from using mantras and towards MA+PU.

Lethality is the question. Not quality of use.

Agroman.7190:

I wasn’t talking about the ‘Furious’ upgrade, because I, unlike you, do not equate mechanics and lore. And concerning the paragon skill, let me quote myself:

Also, I did say before that I have no doubts that guardians and paragons can utilize anger as well.

Monk prayers were powered by faith and by invoking the gods. Of course smiting prayers are more aggressively themed, but the important part in my argument is about what’s the primary source of accessing magic. Which isn’t anger – neither for the smiting monk, nor for the paragon and the guardian.

You are equating game mechanics and lore. Because I don’t believe we are shown adrenaline outside of the game. I don’t even think we are told that paragons can perform magic outside of the mechanics. Do they even tell us that Paragons use fire?

dsslive.8473:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Argon.1563:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Because you are pact commander so by lore you would care.

I find it disturbing that your solution to people with ptsd is to slap them.

I feel dissatisfied with the narrative writing because very little is expressed beyond the typical range of emotions.

The voice for the revenant stances is superior to most of the characters we meet.

It’s as if everyone we meet is a stalwart hero except in instances where the player character is supposed to act.

Don’t take my posts out of context. I never said my attitude towards people with PTSD is to slap them, I meant it as in “slapping it on them” as in giving them that label as characters. I don’t expect to have to speak to people on a forum with the literal accuracy I would address children with.

Like dsslive said, the pact commander isn’t going to gather round a table with Trehearne and the pact officers to figure out where to build a mental health clinic. Its not the commander’s place. Its his duty to figure out how to kill dragons in the most efficient way possible.

and besides, since my pact commander is a Charr, he won’t be handing out boxes of tissues and offering out hugs. He’ll tell them to get onto Primus or farming duty, where unable soldiers can be useful without being dead weight on the battlefield.

If you meant it as slapping it on them you should have written it like that. Don’t comment on literal accuracy when you can’t proofread your writing.

If a character we care about tries to kill themself, then it might be sad and have an impact, but slapping depression random pact soldiers just for a bit of edgy realism and expecting the player to care isn’t going to add anything to the game.

Perhaps an on would be useful in the sentence. Or you know not relying on idioms to enhance your writing would be great too.

@dss

I don’t know where I ever said half though you seem to so please elucidate. Otherwise it’s a strawman..

What I did say is that the game doesn’t show ranges of emotions very well. Example in the uncategorized fractal you get the text manic screaming but not the sound.

The dialogue and voice acting is dull far to many times.

I didn’t mean literally half of the story, i was using hyperbole to prove a point.
Let me try to put it different; when i say “half of the story doesn’t have to be about dealing with suicide/depression” i mean that while there should be examples of it existing (examples like the ones already provided) it shouldn’t have to be overly prominent to the world when it doesn’t fit the narrative that is being used, concerning the overall story, it’s about coming together to untie against a stronger foe, to find strenght in your allies, friends and loved ones. Yes, if you talk to as many people as the player character you’ll find some stories of people dealing with suicidal thoughts or depression, which you do too as to the examples given by plagiarised of random npcs all around the world displaying these mental issues.

Is there not enough exposure concerning transgender people because we only know of one npc? Are there no other homosexual couples because we only know of 3? It’s impossible to put millions of ppl into the game each showing their individuality and issues they deal with, so they use certain npc’s to display that those issues do exist within tyria , that those relation ships exist. And that’s all they can do.

Could there be more exposure to depression/suicide? possibly, but would it add to the game? i’m not sure.

You are asking for statistically relevant demographics. Yet grief/rage are not demographics. Transgender and homosexual individuals are a human genetic mutation, there is no reason to assume that Tyria has the same level in the populace to produce a comparable number. In fact the majority we see are sylvari and they have no dna to speak of. Somehow this topic of suicide came to mental illness or depression, and away from topics of grief/rage.

It is my hope with HoT the game becomes darker than it currently is. But given the appearance of Swordmaster Faren I don’t have much hope.

Are there any quests where you rescue Asura from the Nightmare court?

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Daniel Handler.4816:

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Khyber.1284:

Oddly I’ve never seen anyone complain about MoD, Well until now. Why can’t I just be a mesmer in peace!?!?

If your referring to me I ain’t complaining about MoD. I’m complaining about CS. And I said you can buff some other mesmer thing so you can be in peace.

@Silverkey

Basilisk venom has a longer CD ( granted not by much depending on how long you wait to use your second charge ), is an elite, and you can more easily predict steal from newer players if they aren’t in stealth. And with MoD you can save your second charge for later. In addition this is presuming he uses steal and not some other skill that has a animation if he isn’t in stealth. Or the thief could use a stealth ability but some classes can interrupt that.

You mean BV takes up an elite slot and neither class is centered around which elites they must take. The survival of one is reduced versus the survival of another. They get three survival based utilities we are limited to two. There is no cd on their burst, there is on ours. Your comparison is lacking.

Silverkey was the guy trying to make the comparison between BV and MoD with CS not me. I’m a bit confused as to what your saying. My whole thing tho with elite comparison is BV is a ELITE which is supposed to be more powerful than a utility. And by burst I presume you mean backstab? That does have a CD. It’s called the CD of revealed + them getting stealth.

I know what he said. I am saying your response was inadequate.

A five second burst is the exact limit that MoD places upon its users. Mesmers however don’t have a five second burst. And to gain the potential of basilisk they give up a utility slot.

The only benefit MoD has is the secondary charges. The thief is still overall better off.

You asked me about burst with no counterplay. By your logic BV is one of said bursts. So is any medi guard nonsense. Any burst class will use a stun or an immobilize, the counter is stunbreakers or cleanse.

tobascodagama.2961:

Which is kind of my point. The GW2 pro scene is so laughably small that no conclusions can be drawn from it.

It depends on how its analyzed. More data leads to better results. The lack of data in itself is worthy of analysis.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Khyber.1284:

Oddly I’ve never seen anyone complain about MoD, Well until now. Why can’t I just be a mesmer in peace!?!?

If your referring to me I ain’t complaining about MoD. I’m complaining about CS. And I said you can buff some other mesmer thing so you can be in peace.

@Silverkey

Basilisk venom has a longer CD ( granted not by much depending on how long you wait to use your second charge ), is an elite, and you can more easily predict steal from newer players if they aren’t in stealth. And with MoD you can save your second charge for later. In addition this is presuming he uses steal and not some other skill that has a animation if he isn’t in stealth. Or the thief could use a stealth ability but some classes can interrupt that.

You mean BV takes up an elite slot and neither class is centered around which elites they must take. The survival of one is reduced versus the survival of another. They get three survival based utilities we are limited to two. There is no cd on their burst, there is on ours. Your comparison is lacking.

Silverkey.2078:

While I don’t want to do thief-bashing because I know the class is not in its best state, how is CS + GS burst different from Basilisk Venom-Steal backstab burst?

This is a point I think he is missing. All of the burst classes have a way to guarantee their burst. Causing a burst means nothing without follow up. Lethal power should be a part of OPs post. However its not and instead we get a post about something being too easy to play.

Phantasm builds are super easy to play in pve, should they be nerfed?

tobascodagama.2961:

I don’t even give a crap about League of Legends pro scene drama, why would I care about GW2 pro scene drama?

Because there are more than 9 legends in LoL. And he remains one of our only case studies of high level tournament play for the class. Using people like him and supcutie allows us to beta test scenarios in a way golem and rabbit ranks testing doesn’t manage

Agroman.7190:

Yes, I take the warrior’s way of building adrenaline as mechanics rather than lore.

It appears to me that you try to explain every bit of game mechanics as lore. There is no 100% correlation – they are simply often connected to one another. Because that’s logical. Also, I did say before that I have no doubts that guardians and paragons can utilize anger as well. But, once more, that doesn’t mean that it is their primary source of power. They don’t use it for everything they do – unlike berserkers.

But that wasn’t the warrior. Furious was a generic upgrade. And focused anger was a paragon skill. One can make the comparison between warriors and guardians as between mesmers and thieves. Yes they are not exact but something clearly is there.

It could be easier to say that the smiting prayers were powered by faith and anger, while the healing prayers were perhaps faith and love. The guardians seem to truly evoke emotive qualities .

Argon.1563:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Because you are pact commander so by lore you would care.

I find it disturbing that your solution to people with ptsd is to slap them.

I feel dissatisfied with the narrative writing because very little is expressed beyond the typical range of emotions.

The voice for the revenant stances is superior to most of the characters we meet.

It’s as if everyone we meet is a stalwart hero except in instances where the player character is supposed to act.

Don’t take my posts out of context. I never said my attitude towards people with PTSD is to slap them, I meant it as in “slapping it on them” as in giving them that label as characters. I don’t expect to have to speak to people on a forum with the literal accuracy I would address children with.

Like dsslive said, the pact commander isn’t going to gather round a table with Trehearne and the pact officers to figure out where to build a mental health clinic. Its not the commander’s place. Its his duty to figure out how to kill dragons in the most efficient way possible.

and besides, since my pact commander is a Charr, he won’t be handing out boxes of tissues and offering out hugs. He’ll tell them to get onto Primus or farming duty, where unable soldiers can be useful without being dead weight on the battlefield.

If you meant it as slapping it on them you should have written it like that. Don’t comment on literal accuracy when you can’t proofread your writing.

If a character we care about tries to kill themself, then it might be sad and have an impact, but slapping depression random pact soldiers just for a bit of edgy realism and expecting the player to care isn’t going to add anything to the game.

Perhaps an on would be useful in the sentence. Or you know not relying on idioms to enhance your writing would be great too.

@dss

I don’t know where I ever said half though you seem to so please elucidate. Otherwise it’s a strawman..

What I did say is that the game doesn’t show ranges of emotions very well. Example in the uncategorized fractal you get the text manic screaming but not the sound.

The dialogue and voice acting is dull far to many times.

Agroman.7190:

Yes, Balthazar is a lot about rage. But that isn’t the point in this discussion at all.

You seemingly don’t understand that while anger is in many cases linked to adrenaline, that does in no way mean that adrenaline itself is synonymous to anger. Clinging to that in order to proclaim that paragons and berserkers use the identical form of magic doesn’t make it any more true. They perhaps have a very similar source. But not the same.

You have produced no evidence to the contrary. Only your assumption that a biological process which occurs in reality is the same as the fantasy world. Which clearly isn’t true since only warriors can build adrenaline.

When anger and adrenaline have a 100% correlation the distinction is almost irrelevant.

You mentioned bathalazar but that was two of the links.

You refuse to explain why furious was the upgrade that gave adrenaline. Or why paragons had to focus their anger to stack more adrenaline.

Agroman.7190:

That’s nonesense. Adrenaline is not anger. It can be (and is, in many cases) tied to anger, but not necessarily so. Anger is, however, the same thing as wrath.

How does this not make sense to you.

Show me where it isn’t tied to anger.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Furious
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Rage_of_the_Ntouka
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Balthazar%27s_Rage
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Avatar_of_Balthazar
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Focused_Anger

Because the concept of adrenaline is directly linked to fury and rage. Bathalazar isn’t based in joyful song.

Anger builds adrenaline or it serves as wick to a flame. It is possible that the two are correlated but given the existence of wrath I would say anger is the source of both. The rage skills even build adrenaline come on dude.

Argon.1563:

So you feel dissatisfied with the narrative of this game because not enough characters kill themselves? Thats just a little bit worrying in all honesty.

This is an online game. Not a social narrative. ArenaNet is progressive in the content that they make as a way to push more representation within games, as they have done with female protagonists, homosexual characters and disabled characters within the franchise, however, if ArenaNet was seen to be encouraging suicide, it would not only damage their reputation, but also annoy half the playerbase, since Eir collectively kittened off a chunk of us with her whining about how she was going to kill herself.

There are obviously a lot of dark themes in this game, such as racism, terrorism and genocide, but because of how death is used in creating narrative, be it written story, film, TV show or video game, it has to have impact, and having loads of characters killing themselves left, right and centre isn’t going to have an impact unless its built up, which I doubt ArenaNet wants to go to the effort of doing.

When I turn on the television in the morning, and I see on the news that somebody has killed themselves, I don’t shed a tear for them. I didn’t know them. Life goes on, so why would I care about groups of nameless pact soldiers killing themselves due to PTSD?

If a character we care about tries to kill themself, then it might be sad and have an impact, but slapping depression random pact soldiers just for a bit of edgy realism and expecting the player to care isn’t going to add anything to the game.

Because you are pact commander so by lore you would care.

I find it disturbing that your solution to people with ptsd is to slap them.

I feel dissatisfied with the narrative writing because very little is expressed beyond the typical range of emotions.

The voice for the revenant stances is superior to most of the characters we meet.

It’s as if everyone we meet is a stalwart hero except in instances where the player character is supposed to act.

lordkrall.7241:

But depression and suicide is still something that is talked very little about in the world at large. Sure it might be some extra in the military due to reason (it is however very silly to compare a modern military with one that is more comparable to one from 500 years ago). This is not a real-life military simulator, it is a fantasy game.

There is plenty of seriousness in the story, you just refuse to actually see it. There have been plenty of examples in this thread alone that you seem to just outright ignore.

You mean the now nine examples of it that people can even think of. I’ve read them, I digested them, I was not satisfied by them.
It is a fantasy game but that does not mean that the interactions we have with people have to be fantastical.

You have people experiencing a godzilla situation yet a happy populace.

There is a difference between you taking about depression vs you as a player character physically visiting countless individuals and only a minimum express any anguish or concern.

Agroman.7190:

I don’t see any proof for what you claim. Once again – how is the paragon explicitly tied to anger? And how is adrenaline powered by flame? I’d rather say it’s the other way round, and that flames can be powered by adrenaline/anger, if a person (the berserker warrior) specializes into utilizing magic in that way – or purely by adrenaline in case of the paragon, though I’d really say that’s mechanics rather than lore, since paragon fire, like I said, has a holy theme tied to the gods (of course in case of humans that connection could be at least nominally made for berserkers as well, which is btw. exactly what I do in RP with my priest of Balthazar, who will be a berserker in HoT, but the paragon was explicitly themed towards this).

Adrenaline is anger. There is no escaping that lorewise given the vast amount of material that refer to it as such in gw1. For example focused anger the paragon trait. The flames and protective magic were powered by in part by anger. Whether the anger is shown as adrenaline or wrath is dependent on which class you pick. Anger builds and then bursts the or serves as wick to a fire.

If I had to do magic families I would do.

• Guardian/warrior= preservation
• mesmer/thief= denial
• ranger/revenant = link based magic
• elementalist = destruction
• necromancer = aggression
• engie n/a

lordkrall.7241:

And how often, in the real world, do you find people openly talking about depression and suicide?

If you were a person who visits as many people as the player character I would say quite a lot. Given that you are a military commander that rate of suicide would be part of any briefings on troop morale given the high prevalence of ptsd. This game was written in the US but it’s concept of military readiness is quite bizarre.

I’m not saying they have to go full game of thrones but a little more seriousness to the story would be much appreciated. Although if they figure it will be too impressionable I understand.

Mesmers can alter reality but they can’t create it beyond the most primitive of forces, (ether, light, dark).

Elementalists can create reality but they can’t alter it. They simply change energy or form into elemental forces.

Necromancers are vast changers but their abilities are locked behind ritual and substance. They also can only change that which is in the domain of life and death. The seem incapable of creating or altering reality, only moving forces between this world and the next.

Guardians cannot alter reality, they don’t even seem to create it either. The simply have a vast ability to manipulate light. Vast changers like the Necromancer they can make light burn, heal, cleanse, or even solidify it. Adding to it are a number of protective spells and defensive spells. As well as some very potent healing spells.

Rangers can’t do anything the spirits of the natural world don’t give them the power to accomplish, they can perform acts similar to all of the former professions, but again this is limited to the spiritual forces they channel.

Thieves and warriors are cousins to mesmers and guardians. The reside in the same magic families as the former but they eschew external manipulation. It is unlikely they could pull off any of the grand feats of the former.

Revenants can do anything their echoes could perform. Similar to a ranger and their spirits, their power is limited to how many echoes they have access to and how well they can channel them.

Engineers use technology that can mimic the effects of all the other professions.

I would say that the most powerful relies on what domain you are talking about. A Druid in the Maguuma jungle would have more strength than an elementalist but if you thrust them into the ocean the situation is reversed.

lordkrall.7241:

Daniel Handler.4816:

That is wrong. It does not depict bipolar disorder. And depression is different from bipolar disorder.

Beyond that there are at most 5ish instances of extreme emotion cited. Which means either the general populace is extremely aloof or for the most part we are shown only the happy people.

Depression could be a result of bipolar disorder.

And since you keep ignoring the questions I will give it another try: How often in the real world do people shout about depression and suicide?

No one is referring to shouting about anything.

You as a character speak to many many people over the period of playing the game. There is a disparity in the people you interact with showing an amount of mental illness or even extreme emotion proportional to population of the sizes presented in game.

@konig I encourage you to read up on what bipolar disorder is. Your example and assertion of causality incorrect. Depression without mania is not bipolar disorder.

draxynnic.3719:

Agroman is correct. While it would have been a nice touch for priestesses of Dwayna to behave as lightly-armoured guardians in combat, in practice, every priestess of Dwayna I’ve seen in combat uses elementalist effects.

A good way to observe this is when one of the wasps in the Fields of Ruin delegation event goes too close to the healing tents, and the priestess of Dwayna starts throwing lightning spheres at it. (Which isn’t actually a skill available to PC elementalists either – it might have been in an earlier iteration of what became air scepter – but it’s certainly not a monk-esque skill.)

Daniel Handler.4816:

draxynnic.3719:

Yeah, a broken leg is probably downed, if not defeated. Crippled is more along the lines of something that gives you a limp.

Regarding guardian and paragon flames: I think you’re forgetting that monks (and dervishes, which may be included in that grab-bag of Elonian protective magic) also had access to fire, particularly through Smiting Prayers. The blue-white of guardian flames probably takes more from the monk than it does from the two paragon skills that use Adrenaline and that inflict burning.

The passive effect of Justice may well be the descendant of those skills, particularly since it has an adrenaline-like mechanic (triggering every five strikes, four with a trait) – however, I think that’s as far as it goes.

There are two monk spells that can damage people with fire. There are twelve paragon. The dragon hunter spear of justice, the ability to cause burning on blocks, these were paragon abilities. Dervish had access to fire through Balthazar.

There are twenty-two monk skills that inflict holy damage – and Ray of Judgement gives the precedent that holy damage can inflict the Burning condition. As does Heart of Holy Flame and Holy Spear.

Said skills typically manifest in the form of blue-white energy, including Spear of Light, which takes the form of a roughly spear-shaped bolt of blue energy (a more direct analogue to the dragonhunter’s Spear of Justice). So, what colour are guardian effects, including fire, associated with again?

Paragon certainly contributed to guardian, but this is in the form of shouts, martial weapons, the ability to imbue magic into a weapon (including the Burning Shield skill you mention, although I’ll note that the trait actually functions quite differently, since it will usually be triggering off Aegis or a magical shielding effect rather than directly off a shield block – and I also note that skill used energy rather than adrenaline) and the active forms of the virtues. When you’re creating blue energy that acts at a distance from a physical weapon, you’re in monk or ritualist territory.

Now, there is a potential connection between guardian and anger in the form of wrath-type skills, but we’ve been told that guardians are (primarily) powered by faith. While I consider the paladin comparison to be simplistic, I think in this case it’s an accurate one: a paladin may feel a righteous anger (“wrath” being the commonly used term), but it’s usually channeled in a controlled fashion rather than being allowed to build into a berserk rage.

At the bottom line, there’s the difference in appearance. Berserker flames are the warm colours of regular fire – guardian flames are blue. Even the initial burst of flame from an active Justice proc is blue. Now, believe me, I’m well aware of how the colour of flame can be affected by temperature or chemical additives, but in this case, I think it’s indicating that it’s a different type of energy and therefor likely comes from a different source.

I already made the point you seem to think I I did not make.

“All I see when I look at Guardian is a paragon that chose light manipulation as a way to have access to flame but with the added defensive ability to form it into constructs under ritualist principles.”

The fire they use now is the blue white of light manipulation, a skill created by monks. However it is not monks who bear relation to warriors it is paragons.

Flame and anger, paragon and warrior. The energy behind adrenaline is directly tied to anger and flame.

I have no problems agreeing with parts of what you have said. The paragons focused their anger to make it more palatable to the wrath needed in monk spells. It became anger and faith and flame. The blazing spear is now a spear of justice.

This does not change the fact that adrenaline is part of a primal force powered by flame and anger.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Daniel Handler.4816:

We are not shown trahearnes depression as much as we read about it.

Against the Corruption shows the pinnacle of Trahearne’s depression in the form of bipolarity.

Then there’s the examples Plagiarized mentioned. And that’s not all of them.

That is wrong. It does not depict bipolar disorder. And depression is different from bipolar disorder.

Beyond that there are at most 5ish instances of extreme emotion cited. Which means either the general populace is extremely aloof or for the most part we are shown only the happy people.

I heard reports, didn’t know if it was true.

The issue with this thread is that is resides on the belief that guaranteeing the greatsword burst is OP. A burst which already cannot kill heavies and can easily be negated through dodge when one uses dazes over stun.

Your suggestion places an unfair burden on mesmer vs any other class that uses a hard cc to land a burst.

Plagiarised.2865:

“It’s a valid point though, depression in Tyria seems to be unheard of,”

This is not true. What is true, is that it is not the main focal point of any story, but it is there through ambient dialogue and NPC conversations. In every one of the major cities, you can speak to people on how the Dragons and other threats affected their lives. Asura that cannot experiment anymore for they feel it is all futile. Peacemakers living in paranoia and anxiety of another Golem Uprising. Norn who develop extreme claustrophobia. Sylvari who watch the Sea of Sorrows for Zhaitan to an obsessive degree.

You never go on a quest to save someone from these things, but they are there.

Some examples would be appreciated. Saying you are disenchanted is not the same as depressed. Neither is paranoia or claustrophobia indicative of depression.

Vitali.4719:

I think it’s quite horrible to ask “Where are the suicides ?”… Of course, the Tyria is fighting Dragons, and some Humans get killed by Centaurs, etc… But, just because this is a game, people shouldn’t ask these questions.

And yes, “Just because it’s not showndoesn’t mean it doesnt happen.”, as Dsslive said.
I know in France the game is rated +12. 12 y.o is quite young to hear about suicides and stuff.
And last but not least : we don’t really need to hear about suicide. It’s not like it’s gonna change the story or whatever.

12+ Is not young enough to hear about that concept? Especially when the game tells us of murder and torture? The suggestive themes limit is for sexual content.

This is all part of a trend in this game to not show an emotional spectrum.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Daharahj.1325:

It’s a valid point though, depression in Tyria seems to be unheard of, with all the war and loss going on about you would think it’d be realistic to hear about a suicide story or two. The reason’s probably because it’s such a delicate topic and writers would rather keep it under the rug, just like the “r” word.

Trahearne would like to have a word with you about depression not existing in Tyria.

The thing is that depression does exist in Tyria, but ArenaNet has not had it lead to suicide.

You need to keep in mind that depression can lead to more places than just suicide – just like suicide can have more causes than depression.

It is a weird way they show us the world. They allow topics like murder and torture, but not topics like depression and suicide. We are not shown grief to the degree you would expect.

We are not shown trahearnes depression as much as we read about it.

We so little see outburst of anger. Screams of anguish.

The voice acting done on the revenant stances eclipses many parts of the game.

Aedelric.1287:

Daniel Handler.4816:

This is not the first time it has happened in this game. And yet now is when you complain…

Topic is not about Faren, why would I complain about such an idiotic character here. Anyway another part of the game being more ridiculous does not forgive this, now get back on topic.

I’m saying your concept of nonsense is quite bizarre. And if most of the game has nonsense, and this development is the nonsense for you I am quite surprised. For me the lore is quite palatable, it is plausible and nothing is thematically odd.