Guild Wars 2

(i am not sure if this is true but if it is, i am not surprise at all because the evidence is everywhere. All of sudden so many pro-Arena net supporter posts and threads? Where did these come from? ) How about this news: there is evidence of credible popular websites with evidence of this company paying people to write fake posts and threads to make sales and to avoid problems.

What these evidence websites suggest to do to distinguish who is fake and who is not fake? research their post history. " If the shoe doesn’t match, why put it on? "
" Sometimes its not the person who change, it’s the mask that falls off "

http://www.practicedock.com/index.cfm/PageID/7290/?p=333

(from a player post)

Here is what a expansion is:

Liam McColgan.7689:

This a sad thread. I feel for you Tayln. I regard myself as fairly competent in pvp but even i find solo queue just a nightmare now.

90% of the time you come up against a premade of some sorts. Now for someone who usually queues with a team, i leave often thinking; “if i was with my team we would have won that, or at the very least given them a game”.

Buffing or nerfing MMR’s just so you get a queue pop is ridiculous. I cannot believe ANET actually thought that would b a good idea. If you asked people, i let 99% would say they would rather wait in a queue another 3-5 mins than get a quicker quue pop, with an inflated mmr only to face a tryhard premade, who clearly have a strategic/coordination advantage regardless of individual skill.

And from the other angle, i HATE queueing as a part-premade….eg 3-4. The pug you get, ends up not being on the same wave length/ skill level and it’s just frustrating for both parties. None of us asked for this.

You simply cannot have premades v pugs and still expect a competitive environment.

You are not the only one and sure wont be the last to cry over the state of pvp queueing right now.

THIS IS WHY YOU NEED A 2v2/ 3V3 mode. So people who want to play with a buddy or do not have their full team online, can still play in a competitive environment, where you know the only thing that will matter is skill, not whether the team has been together for 2 years, and using ts, fighting a bunch of randomers who have 0 synergy.

AlfredKlios.9657:

Hot join became a sad mess with team stacking and gankfests with a daily apparently encouraging it. Volunteering is a one shot death sentence to end up on a 1 v 5 from folks I don’t think want to fight if they can’t pile one person with three.

When I enter combat my character goes from rushing head on into battle with swiftness to literally prancing on his feet like a four year old, limping at walking speed against any class with accesible cripple and chill.

Eviscerates make me lollygag jumping backwards towards at a crate when I’m another plane (but I’ll probably leap and then be blinded mid hit anyway). Earthshaker Adrenaline decides to pound the mid air rather than the ground.

Launch personal battering ram flies 90 degrees to the right of the target. My thief runs over Oil Slicks to trigger a 45 second cooldown on skills that don’t even have cooldowns.

Tapping left to right very quickly, I dodge ranger arrows even at max speed yawning. I’ll get downed by DoT’s running to a safe area as 4 minions, 5 clones/phantasms and a coked up bird with two cats gnawing on my face come to finish me.

My killshot downs a player triggering an invulnerable state that can be immediately lifted up again by 2 other players.

Where is the action in this ‘action packed pvp’ when I skip to my opponent merrily to have my attacks not even land and pray to god every one of my skills does not bug up. How do you enjoy pvp folks? How do you take it seriously?

I do not enjoy pvp when it is not fun: so i no longer play it. Where is serious change?

“Competitive”:

" The Competitive Game "

“Competition is very easy to create. You only need an activity both sides want to be best at and you are done. However, the quality of said competitive sport is not as easily discernible, there are few qualities that control it. First, and this is really a no-brainer, the activity needs to be FAIR, it would be a pretty hollow experience if it was not fair. After all, what would be the point of Olympic track and field if one athlete could just blaze the trail with his fast power bike?”

“Even playing field promises that it is only the personal hard work and talent which will lead one to victory. Of course, such a simple issue as fairness becomes more complex because games do not like “evening the playing field”. Sports take mirror matches as granted because that is the best way ensure balance! But nooo, video games want to be unique, especially AoS (moba) genre where mirror matches are impossible. This begs the question, how fair is _ games? This is crucial, because an unfair game can’t have any credibility at all, it can not function as a competitive sport "

" Measuring Balance: Measuring Skill "

“The next important concept is to make sure the competitive game is capable of dissecting skill levels. Games where everyone is equal makes a poor competitive game, and a game where nobody is equal makes a great competitive game. The better the game is at splitting up even the best players into clear pecking order, the easier it is to find out who is the best player. Finding the best player is of course the whole point of competitive games anyway”.

“To see how it is done best, you must look at something else than sports or video games, you need to study education. And not any education, math! Math tests are amazing when it comes to separating even the 2nd best from the 1.5th best. Progressive difficulty in math questions surely filters out everyone to their respective skill levels at utter efficiency. The first questions are always easy algebra that everyone knows (unless you really really suck at math)".

“By the time you are talking about imaginary numbers and logarithms, you have dropped most people off the track, yet it is not over, the difficulty will rise until even the smartest of nerds can’t answer anymore. This is important! It is optimal for the difficulty ceiling of the game to be a step ahead of the player base”.

“If fairness is the bone structure of a good competitive game, this idea is the meat. Understanding and building on this skill separation in game design is what at the end of the day makes or breaks a competitive game. But remember, the word “difficulty” is ambiguous here. It does not mean just harder, it can mean a whole spectrum of skillsets varying from mechanical skill to understanding, be it more depth, more freedom, more choices, whatever. Keep the player learning, not with arbitrary means but with good quality game design".

" Afterword "

“Competitive games naturally conflicts with a casual community because it requires a lot of dedication and discipline from the player-base. The reason for this is the simple fact that not everyone can play to be the best and still enjoy the experience. The frustration can escalate even higher when you are on the receiving end of dying to things you do not understand or can’t fight against".

“3 Keys to a Great Competitive Game”

1 key

" Eliminating Glitches with Developer-Intended Gameplay ":

“It’s important to realize that for a broad swath of gamers, use of any non-developer intended gameplay is viewed with equal disdain. While it may be easy enough to say “no Johns” and move on, at the end of the day the presence of competitive glitches is simply bad for business. Most crucially, glitches create a divide in the community between those who perceive glitching as cheating and those who embrace it with a playing-to-win attitude".

“While the discovery and implementation of these hidden mechanics kept the hardcore entertained, they created a significant barrier to entry, in terms of both attitude and skill. The result is that playing competitively became an arduous opt-in process”.

" There are few things that will make a player chuck a title to the local used-game shop faster than being repeatedly thrashed by a glitch they don’t even understand. It feels like cheating, like being violated, and you certainly can’t expect players to stick around for future expansions if they feel that their only options in multiplayer are cheating or losing".

“You were posting links to topics about the CULLING-problem, which got fixed long ago and use it for “stealth OP pls nerf”. And you ask us why we can´t take you seriously. lmao"

“World vs. World: The End of Culling”

“So What Is Culling, Exactly?

Normally as you move through the world, any character (either an NPC or another player) within a fairly large circle around you gets reported to your client. This lets the client draw the character, allows you to select the character as an attack target, etc.

In order to cut down on the network resources that were used by the game and to reduce the client-side system requirements, we implemented a culling system, which imposed a limit on the number of characters that could ever be reported to your client. This meant that only the characters closest to you would actually get reported.

“By removing culling, we’ve been able to […] greatly increase the epic feel of large WvW battles.”

While this achieved our goal of limiting bandwidth and client-side resource utilization, it had the unfortunate side effect of causing large battles in WvW to be confusing, as there were sometimes many enemy players that were completely invisible. Additionally, there were side effects of culling which could result in stealth characters getting up to two seconds of additional invisibility when coming out of stealth. By removing culling, we’ve been able to eliminate these negative side effects and greatly increase the epic feel of large WvW battles.

For the sake of clarity, I want to make a distinction between our usage of the term “culling” in this post (meaning to limit the amount of data the server reports to the client) and other uses of the word “culling” related to graphics (discarding backward facing triangles in models, triangles or whole models that are occluded, etc.). Our changes are to the client/server culling and have no bearing on basic graphics operations in the GW2 client".

“A World vs. World without Culling

Now that every client will know about every character within range, we’ve provided a new set of WvW options to control how all those characters will be rendered. Setting these options should allow players with various hardware configurations to enjoy WvW at a reasonable frame rate.

Under the new system, characters can be rendered in three different ways:

High resolution models – These are the high-res character models that you’re all already familiar with.
Lower resolution fallback models – These are the models that we’ve been using as placeholders in WvW while the hi-res models load. They differ depending on race and armor class, though human, sylvari, and norn share the same model.
Nameplates only – We don’t render the model at all and instead only show the nameplate for that character.

We’ve also added two new options to allow players to select how WvW characters are displayed:

WvW Character Limit – This controls how many of the reported characters render with a model and how many are rendered only with nameplates.
WvW Character Quality – This controls how many of the characters rendered with a model use the high resolution models and how many use the lower resolution fallback models".

“https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/world-vs-worldthe-end-of-culling/

Same Thing ?"

“The thief and its gameplay – Your feedback [Merged]”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-thief-and-its-gameplay-Your-feedback-Merged/first

?

-“And you ask us why we can´t take you seriously”?-

Zero Day.2594:

@DarkSyze

Make a thief, actually play it for about a month in all possible scenarios (pve, spvp, wvw).
Then come back to this forum and be taken just a bit more seriously.
Till then, you’re on par with the trolls/QQ’ers.

Or

Continue to QQ/“provide evidence” and be taken like an idiot.

Choice is yours.

---

To everyone feeding DarkSyze…

:| You guys are wasting your time.

Amusing to watch/read from afar, but waste of time.

2 years++ players including thief players and Arena net are trolls, idiots: bad name ?

Yes! Even Arena net say that thief is concern, so Arena net still trolls, bad name like these players include me?

- " The problem is not about “QQ” it is about Arnena net not make serious change with Thief Profession and Igrnoring Players Feedback to make thief profession challenging, fun, hard-work, make effort and risk-reward "-

Try to understand that!

It is not hard Zero Day

Even the Thief Nerf List show evidence of Thief being problematic:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Nerf-Wish-list/page/11#post5143477

Lyrsen.6702:

DarkSyze.8672

The reason i post was to show evidence of no serious change to thief profession from 3 years ago to now. Also to show evidence of players including thief players sharing concern with thief being OP since that time to now.

" Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it "
George Santayana

" Trying to tear down the past prohibits you from building up your future "

" You can’t undo the past… but you can certainly not repeat it "
Bruce Willis

The game hasn’t even been out for three years, so there have been a lot of changes to everything. Do I really have to list them and link the patch notes or can you go through them yourself?

(off topic, sorry) As for your quotes I disagree with:

“Trying to tear down the past prohibits you from building up your future”

If you have a solid past you are going to continue in a vicious circle of doing the same thing you’ve always done since that’s what has worked for you. It works for you because that is what you know how to do. This is also the definition of crazy, expecting different results but doing the same things. If you tear down your past, no not forget it, tear it down so you can release the chains binding you, other possibilities can occur.

I said serious change: not change. Let me ask you a question: you are intelligent person. If you say you made serious change to something broken: would that still be same problematic in 2years++ later? Obviously, No!

Second Question: Why is thief profession have same problems 2years+ if there was serious change?

Last question: What did Arena net do with 2 years++ past: threads, posts, advices and suggestions concerning for thief profession?

Answer?

The Present

Evidence?

The Present: Update Threads,

“We need more counterplay to Thief Stealth”

ttps://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/pvp/We-need-more-counterplay-to-Thief-Stealth/page/13#post5144315

“The class that ruins competitive PvP…”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-class-that-ruins-competitive-PvP/page/2#post5143938

“Thieves need a fix”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Thieves-need-a-fix/page/2#post5142900

“Thief is overpowered”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-is-overpowered/page/4#post5144828

Archon.6480:

Just make them move slower and give them more skills to knockback, cripple etc… They should NOT be able to outrun everyone like little fairies…

yolo swaggins.2570:

DarkSyze.8627:

Lyrsen.6702:

DarkSyze.8627:

I want to share this with video evidence:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/S-D-Thief-Too-Strong-Discussion/first

Way to link a video from Sept. 20th, 2013…

Any serious change from Sept.20, 2013?

Here is another one

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-thief-and-its-gameplay-Your-feedback-Merged/page/76#post4000084

Arena net: CC Charles,

" Hello everyone, Due to the amount of threads about thief and its gameplay impact, we have decided to open this thread in which you can discuss your concerns about Thieves in PvE, sPvP and WvW ".

That is a topic dump so anet doesn’t have to read the same thing over and over. Kinda like mounts.

The reason i post was to show evidence of no serious change to thief profession from 3 years ago to now. Also to show evidence of players including thief players sharing concern with thief being OP since that time to now.

" Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it "
George Santayana

" Trying to tear down the past prohibits you from building up your future "

" You can’t undo the past… but you can certainly not repeat it "
Bruce Willis

" We have a hope of succeeding if we learn from our past mistakes and pull together to make the hard choices "
Carl Levin

Lyrsen.6702:

DarkSyze.8627:

I want to share this with video evidence:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/S-D-Thief-Too-Strong-Discussion/first

Way to link a video from Sept. 20th, 2013…

Any serious change from Sept.20, 2013?

Here is another one

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-thief-and-its-gameplay-Your-feedback-Merged/page/76#post4000084

Arena net: CC Charles,

" Hello everyone, Due to the amount of threads about thief and its gameplay impact, we have decided to open this thread in which you can discuss your concerns about Thieves in PvE, sPvP and WvW ".

“This will allow us to collect your feedback with more efficiency and forward them to the appropriate teams” .

“You can articulate both, positive and negative feedback for it, but we ask you to stay constructive and polite when you want to express your opinion, all posts that break the forum code of conduct will be removed”.

Thread from 2 years ago: question?

Answer: No Serious Change.

Archon.6480:

What can ANet do to stop people from going afk?

Make pvp challenging, fun and with serious positive change. There are evidence that some players go afk to prove the opposite. Yes! intentionally go afk to show how un-challenge, un-fun and no serious positive change pvp is?

The question is: after 3 years of continuing ignoring players suggestion asking for pvp to be challenging, fun and serious positive change: is it still their fault?

yolo swaggins.2570:

ronpierce.2760:

In which case the added traits are making them effective in battle. Mesmer weapons are not as potent as a DP’s base. The fact that PS thieves are in such a great place and able to fro flows their steal should tell you something, but apparently it doesn’t. And yeah, by the time a Mesmer gained the clones and set up time to cycle through each of their shatters the thief probably already used Steal twice. Still you are both ignoring the much longer cooldown of Mesmers shatters save for Mindwrack.

It’s not Mesmer as the primary on 95% of elite teams, which has t changed since launch, let me remind you. That isn’t just a magical anomaly.

Can you stop using that? Thieves might be great at backcapping and exploding terrible players but that in no way is a factor into the overpowered equation.

Steal is the least of your worries. You should be worrying about what comes afterwards. And hey, there is the telegraph for backstab. Yay.

“You can use stolen items twice”

Guild Wars 2 – Ready Up: Episode 32
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPqYpcteqac

I want to share this with video evidence:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/S-D-Thief-Too-Strong-Discussion/first

yolo swaggins.2570:

DarkSyze.8627:

Daniel Handler.4816:

It’s funny that I don’t even main thief, but as a Mesmer I get annoyed by people complaining about instant skills.

What is your justification that steal is OP?

Because instant skills require no hard-work, no effort and no learning curve: that is why!

Steal isn’t an instant kill.

" Stealing has no activation time and may be performed during other actions without interrupting the action, and can even be used while disabled ".

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Steal

Trevor Boyer.6524:

If anything, Warrior needs a few small debuffs
No need to go in to that here

I say more debuffs especially to their mobility.

Daniel Handler.4816:

It’s funny that I don’t even main thief, but as a Mesmer I get annoyed by people complaining about instant skills.

What is your justification that steal is OP?

Because instant skills require no hard-work, no effort and no learning curve: that is why!

Puck.1509:

Thieves are terrible for AOE give them the benefit of being overpowered in 1 v 1 situations, its a THIEF, a NINJA. That is what the thief does. Its moves quick, get in gets out. Job done. It is supposed to be overpowered in those situations however you have to out think that. Play as a team and coordinate the thief, their instantly dead. Play together rather than on your own and maybe just maybe a thief wont be so hard to down. Spam the thin air around you and you’re bound to get him. Done it so many times… just wait 5 seconds for him to reveal from stealth in down-state. It is too easy at times… seriously…
Lets get off this thief hype and start balancing builds on each class to have effectiveness so you can encourage multiple styles of play!

Thief is Ninja?

Final Fantays XIV: Ninja
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Ninja

Final Fantasy XI: Ninja
http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Ninja

Final Fantasy XI: Thief
http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Thief

Scolix.4879:

I still try to like it but as i am not very good in pvp i get stomped and facerolled 99.9 times out of 100 and i have no idea whats even happening most of the times. To me game feels just too fast and i get no enjoyment from being killed in seconds maybe i am just not hardwired to do pvp.

It is not you not being hardwired to do pvp: it is the game that is not hardwired for challenge, fun, hard-work, effort and risk-reward.

See evidence of Instant Kill

Again:

Do you see, it?

Last:

Still today after 3 year these evidence videos still Instant Kill, so you see: it was never you

Did you know! In the next update patches: Arena net will continue to ignore these problems?

No change to burst, No change to Stealth, No change to air/fire sigil, No change to rapid fire? No change to ranger ranger? No change to zerker: power-creep?

Scolix.4879:

I still try to like it but as i am not very good in pvp i get stomped and facerolled 99.9 times out of 100 and i have no idea whats even happening most of the times. To me game feels just too fast and i get no enjoyment from being killed in seconds maybe i am just not hardwired to do pvp.

It is not you not being hardwired to do pvp: it is the game that is not hardwired for challenge, fun, hard-work, effort and risk-reward.

See evidence of Instant Kill

You see, it is not you who is not hardwired but it is the game design that is not hardwired for Challenge, Fun, Risk-Reward, Effort, Hard-Work.

Last:

Yes, still today after 3 year these evidence videos still Instant Kill, so you see: it was never you

Jana.6831:

DarkSyze.8627:

Final Fantasy 14, Age of Conan: Unchained, Tera, Aion, SWTOR, Lineage 2, Eden Eternal, Alganon, Black Desert, Icarus Online, Rift Online etc…

I don’t know whether or not all rangers in these games have pets but all these games (except maybe Swtor and and some other game, I couldn’t figure out what the classes do, maybe they have rangers after all) have got rangers/archers.
So I’m not really sure why you posted them.

Just want to let you know there are other games

Jana.6831:

Svarty.8019:

Jana.6831:

Too late for what?

Quite. Arenanet have more or less stated that they are happy with their balancing. Personally, I think thief is ridiculously overpowered, but I don’t see it being changed – ever.

I think the only hope for people who are sick of being killed by thieves is to wait for the next game and pray that the developers there aren’t bandwagoning the tired, old OP stealth class nonsense.

Good thing we’re on the same server

Personally I’m sick of being killed by rangers, I hope for a game that hasn’t got a ranged class with pet.

Final Fantasy 14, Age of Conan: Unchained, Tera, Aion, SWTOR, Lineage 2, Eden Eternal, Alganon, Black Desert, Icarus Online, Rift Online etc…

Talyn Sneider.1825:

Oki i’be been a big fan…a really big fan of this game, love the books, the lore, the combat system, I’ve been around since gw1…
And i always believed in you anet…i also tried to help as much as a causal gamer could.
But i can´t simply continue…the decision to remove solo queue was too much for me…I tried to support u guys, tried to give this a chance but pvp is now in a state were a solo player simply has a really low chance to have fun.
yeah i know learn to play and yadda yadda…but casual players should have a place in pvp too and at this moment the place we have is being farmed…and I’ve waited for some response from anet…I even believed u guys were doing this because u needed to and i kept playing even being farmed…but It just isn’t fun and this is a game that should bring joy.
And I´m so disapointed i can’t keep on…this really makes me sad cause i suffered from a deep depression and gw 1 helped me greatly … so i feel like leaving a place i called home…
wish you guys all the best (and remember pvp isn’t just e.sports it’s a place were some of us go to have fun a place were everyone should be welcome and not used to fulfill a pre made need to win)

Talyn Sneider, there are many game companies who care about challenge: fun, risk-reward, hard-work and effort). So do not feel too bad because as a customer: you accomplish your responsibility and duty.

I am sorry you waste your time to believe in false hope and only words with no serious action

It is ok because now you believe words mean nothing without serious action.

So good luck to you and have fun.

" Words mean nothing when actions are the complete opposite "

“ Believing is not enough, Sang Ly. If you want to resurrect hope, doing is the most important "
Camron Wrigh

“ Harsh reality is always better than false hope ”
Downton Abbey

WhiteCrow.5310:

serenke.4806:

It’s really hard to see why you would defend the mechanic that you can attack from stealth and get blocked and then not get revealed. How is that not absolutely broken?

It’s the shining example of their forgiving gameplay. If you’re dumb enough to attack someone with a block up, you should be punished. But alas ..

It is called reward with not taking risk instead of challenge: risk-reward. It is very obvious thief is not to be a challenge profession and that is only hurting Arena net image of making this game fun and challenge.

Thief is not the only profession that is hurting Arena net image of making this game fun and challenge: rangers, elementalist. engineer, mesmer and warrior.

“Necromancers are probably the worst” They are the worst mobility profession!

" No matter how much the truth hurts, it will never hurt as bad as the betrayal that comes with living a lie. Tell your truth anyway "

Arena net need to hear the truth: thief profession is extremely problematic: broken… for too long (3 years+) is not ok!!. Thief Profession need to be urgently resolve as soon as possible.

Last,

" Failure is the opportunity to begin again more intelligently "

Thief is a fail profession: it need to be redesign and rework.

Coronit.9432:

Zero Day.2594:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Hey guys. Nerf thief cause I said it.

I play ranger and they hit me too hard

so… yeah

EDIT: Oh Dark is actually giving it a try?

My interest is piqued. Very much so.

Good enough reason… added to nerf wish list!

;D

Here we go.
Pls nerf Peow peow´s thief (if he has one?). He seems to be so overpowered contrary to everyone else. Its unfair. He oneshots everything while in stealth, evading and being invincible. And not forgetting that all of his ports are always working (to close for steal ftw).

But seriously where have you been? Banned from forum?
I´m never sure if you are a troll or a thief player being annoyed about all the complaining —-> making ridiculous complain-posts

DarkSyze.8627 never even played thief? Oh sweet irony.
Pls make me the favor and play against decent players. (no, uplevels don´t count)

Hi Coronit.

I am playing experiencing with my thief now. I am not a troll but a player like you I am close to be ban and when that happens: i will be happy and satisfy because it was worth it: i only want good things for the game.

" “We seek the truth and will endure the consequences.” ”
Charles Seymour

" The future belongs to those who dare. ”

" Those who endure conquer. "
Motto

So no change to burst? No change to stealth? No change to reset-fights? No change to stun? No change to immobility? No changes to rapid fire? No changes to Rangers range? No change to instant kill professions? When did mobility and condition become priority? So instead of fixing priority, so instead of fixing main problems- pick something that is not?

Until there is serious change for Guild Wars 2: it will only continue to punish it. Continue to ignore main problems, is ‘disaster’ for Guild Wars 2 future.

I will continue to not buy expansion until serious change happen: starting with main problems and priorities first.

" “A half-truth is a whole lie” "
Yiddish

Question:

Would you buy a car with a bad engine even if the salesperson tell you the other car parts are ok?

Alexander.9810:

This game is never going to be balanced, matchmaking will suck until GW2 has defined roles that players have to choose and limit what is available to them to build with.

It’s lazy and hasn’t worked on Arenanet’s part to just throw a bunch of “options” at players and let them balance the game. It’s delegation of gameplay to people who are going to do the following:

a) run nonsensical, idealistically driven, scrub builds (The Scrub)
b) copy builds that work and play them decently (The Follower)
c) theorycraft and test their builds with and against good players to make superbuilds (The Leader)

What ends up happening is a pyramid of builds that can be run which is mainly composed of fecal matter, but with a golden triangle on top. This is why GW2, which on the surface looks like a game with a bunch of building choices, is anything but a game with a bunch of building choices.

So how do you fix that?

You reinvent the Holy Trinity into something that fits into GW2 and use it to govern what players can run and how groups are composed. After all this time, can any of you honestly say that GW2 has provided a legitimate alternative to the Tank-Healer-DPS conceptual model in PvP, organized PvE, or large scale groups?

What exactly has “role-less building” accomplished besides market GW2 on Twitch in a less successful way than an attractive female with a low cut tanktop streaming World of Warcraft?

I play FFXIV, which is an objectively better game than this and will continue to exceed any of the accomplishments this game achieves, so I could care less about teaching you as players, or developers, or the publisher of this game exactly what you should do to make the game more sane.

I wanted to drop this in here so at least you guys can have some semblance of intelligent discussion.

If you want counterplay, balance, better overall matchmaking you can’t just let people play however they want. There have to be rules.

I agree with you 100%

Brigg.6189:

Someone have a link?

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/combat-changes-dotsanddashes/

Lordrosicky.5813:

420 posts and counting. That is all the evidence you need that OP was right and that stealth needs more counter play to it. If it wasn’t an issue thieves wouldn’t care if it got nerfed and other classes wouldn’t care. The fact this thread has so much interest is conclusive proof that nerfs are needed.

Job done, well done all.

" The wave of the future is coming and there is no fighting it "
Anne Morrow Lindbergh

" If you don’t stand for something you will fall for anything "
Peter Marshall

Good Job! Well done to all as well

Suggestion: Arena net to re-design/re-create thief profession because nerfing them will not be enough.

" The power for creating a better future is contained in the present moment: You create a good future by creating a good present "
Eckhart Tolle

Arken.3725:

I despise instant skills so i’m all for adjustments, just not the ones you’ve suggested. Functionality changes would be nice.

evilapprentice.6379:

DarkSyze.8627:

evilapprentice.6379:

ronpierce.2760:

evilapprentice.6379:

@Shadow

Like I told TerrorSquad, you’re wasting your time. Supreme believes that the only current counter to stealth is “AoEing the area you saw them stealth in”, and despite MrBigs claim of 5k games played he believes the only counter to stealth is “random dodging”.

If these players haven’t figured out how to move, think and predict (as you outlined) in the last 3 years, you walking them through it isn’t going to help. All the logic in the world proves useless against blind zealotry. None of these forums warriors came here for a discussion or an exchange of ideas, they came to shout their “point” (incorrect as it is) loudly and repeatedly in the face of all common sense. Unless they get a button whose function is “I win against stealth now”, they won’t be happy.

Anyone complaining about stealth 3 years in would be better served playing a less complex game that doesn’t expect its players to learn things on their own.

You sure love your buzzwords don’t you?

“Just as much as bad players love requesting nerfs for a class they haven’t bothered to learn, and haven’t put the effort into learning how to fight”.

Let me ask you a question:

No.

Edit: question open to all players.

evilapprentice.6379:

ronpierce.2760:

evilapprentice.6379:

@Shadow

Like I told TerrorSquad, you’re wasting your time. Supreme believes that the only current counter to stealth is “AoEing the area you saw them stealth in”, and despite MrBigs claim of 5k games played he believes the only counter to stealth is “random dodging”.

If these players haven’t figured out how to move, think and predict (as you outlined) in the last 3 years, you walking them through it isn’t going to help. All the logic in the world proves useless against blind zealotry. None of these forums warriors came here for a discussion or an exchange of ideas, they came to shout their “point” (incorrect as it is) loudly and repeatedly in the face of all common sense. Unless they get a button whose function is “I win against stealth now”, they won’t be happy.

Anyone complaining about stealth 3 years in would be better served playing a less complex game that doesn’t expect its players to learn things on their own.

You sure love your buzzwords don’t you?

“Just as much as bad players love requesting nerfs for a class they haven’t bothered to learn, and haven’t put the effort into learning how to fight”.

{Let me ask you a question} open question for all players: what is “haven’t bothered to learn and haven’t put the effort into learning how to fight”? when a profession that is design to not bothered to learn and put the effort into learning how to fight others?

Do you know: each time when players try to put the effort into bothered to learn and putting the effort into learning how to fight the profession: 3 things happen?

1. They are instant kill by thief
2. Thief hide always in stealth
3. Thief reset fights

So again, what is to put effort into bothered to learn how to fight a profession and putting effort into learning from a profession that is guarantee instant kill you, gurantee stealth and guarantee reset fights before you even the chance to learn and put effort fighting them?

Example: – teacher: classroom

It is like every time you go to a classroom and put effort to learn from the teacher. When you see the teacher: the teacher instantly hide and run away, Each time you return to the classroom: again the teacher instant run and hide. Later: you receive a letter in the address from the teacher saying, you haven’t bothered to learn from me and putting the effort learning to learn from me- I will Fail You: You Fail the class.

How would you feel if you were the student?

Would you feel ok?

Would you feel teacher action was fair?

Would you also tell the student the reason that happen is because you did not bothered to learn from teacher? and put the effort into learning from teacher?

I hope you understand because that student example is us players and the teacher example is thief players.

-that is all-

Odyssey.2613:

It boggles my mind some of you actually listen to Darksyze. Apart from his incoherent jibberish and affinity for quoting. He talks with authority on the mechanics of Thief profession, yet he doesn’t own a thief. Let me repeat that for some of you that seem to have 5 stacks of confusion.

HE
DOES
NOT
HAVE
A
THIEF

Ignore the tool.

I never tell anyone to ignore anyone including you: do you see who is the one want to cause a problem? I do my best to respect other players decision: i hope you do same next time

Last, I want to share something with you:

" Experience is not what you have, it is what happens to you " I do not have thief profession but i know what happens to me by thief profession.

-The reason why i quote is because: I honor other knowledge and experience who are more than mine. In return: will help improve my knowledge and experience better- That is why i do research and investigate so i can use other experience and knowledge to help me make case.

That is all

(by the way: i am working with my thief profession )-

Someone mention a good suggestion: thief suffering random conditions while stealth and make them un-removalble until they leave stealth or until stealth elapse" “It will add more layers of counterplay to thief stealth on top of Arena net counterplay for thief stealth”

Empty Sky.6354:

I think it’s pointless for people to cry about nerfs at this time,because Anet is working on Heart Of Thorns . They are gonna change their game to some degree with specializations,do you really think they have time for anything else right now,if you want Heart Of Thorns to come out this year…we are already closing to middle of June and this announcment of HoT was year ago or something like that (around the time,they actually started working on expansion :P )

Best for you to do,is to stop playing the game for the moment. Or l2p with existing problems,that classes have.

No!

" The Problem Is Too Big To Sweep Under The Rug Anymore "

Liston.9708:

Chris Cleary.8017:

Exploits@arena.net is the best place to report these things. Yes, it is used to report in-game exploits, but it can also handle reports like this. Moving forward, it’s probably best that reports go there instead of on the forums.

Also

Wait is DHUUM back for all to witness? If so, would like to see these when a pvp room owner bans a mouthy troll too…..

same too

I spend 5 minutes reading latest post in this thread: all i want to say is, ‘more constructive posts’ : Good Job!.

I hope Arena net appreciate this and make serious change to thief profession because this problem will never go away and will only punish this game more.

That is all.

Toxsa.2701:

Anet’s solution of fixing thief:
Buff Deadly Art, Shadow Art and Trickery

Solution: instead of fixing problems, ‘deliberately’ increase them more?

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Nope did not get owned by a thief, sorry conspiracy theory thieves. Only thief to own me in recent days was a really really good sword/dagger one and even then after 3rd encouter he had some major hard time with my ranger. On to the subject:

Ok, a-net, you got some explaning to do.
A while ago you said yourself you want to move away from hard counter gameplay into soft counter style, so player skill has bigger say in result of pvp encounters then their build.

And for most part you’re keeping true to your word – quickness and berserker stance becoming boons which can be stripped or corrupted, elite specs filling gaps base professsions had etc.

….except thieves.

Shadowstepping. Stealth not removed when blocked or evaded, basilisk venom piercing stability, phletora of instant casts including a heal skill that breaks movement inpairment and has massive evade, initiative unaffected by chilling or interrupt induced skill cooldown.

So where exactly is the room for “skilled counter gameplay” against a thief who knows his stuff in pvp? Cause so far all i see is the “hold the point and survive for as long as possible”.

“Fairness in competitive play is something we believe in very strongly at ArenaNet and as such we are taking this violation very seriously”.
I do not know if i should be happy about this news or not because i believe fairness and competitive Game Play should be use and include in every game play and every game mode having no exceptions: Pvp, Wvw, Pve, Tournament etc..

I have 1 questions to ask: Does this also mean: Arena net will finally take serious action against players-professions that use unfairness in all competitive gameplay?

That is all i always ask: for Guild Wars 2 to be a challenge, risk-reward and fun game and for Arena net to take serious action against any threats that violate it.

That is all

Drennon.7190:

Zero, check out the guardian forum. Multiple threads are crying that thief is too strong against guardian..

Guardians are a Soldier Profession. All i am saying is, “Remember their Sacrifice”

Leave them alone.

Cynz.9437:

Tarkan.5609:

Drennon.7190:

Darksyze, I have a seriously unhealthy obsession with hating every word you say. Can you pitch it towards my shrink?

this is so me
some players like DarkSyze should just move on to another game, would save me a lot of facepalms

you do realize they are doing it on purpose and don’t actually care about state of the class/game?

Please! Show Evidence from inside our minds?

Yes! I am asking you to give evidence of us doing it on purpose and don’t actually care about the state of the class/game?

I want to share this with you:

“Ron Kaufmann, from Singapore, in his book: Up Your Service, asked, “Who actually picks up the phone, takes up a pen or gathers the courage to complain? You think it’s the troublemaker, the dificult customer, and the one who enjoys being angry. You’d be wrong”

“Research shows that complaining customers are overwhelming loyal and sincere. They are complaining to you because they care about your business and about the service they receive. They intend doing business with you again in the future, and they want you to set things right”

“The complaining customer trusts you to care, this is why the customer contacted you. Don’t avoid them, embrace them. If a customer does not contact you, it does not mean that they did not experience a similar issue. Customers with similar issues who do not contact you are already lost.”

“Remember that the customer is not complaining about you, they are expressing the dissatisfaction to you. You are not the problem, you are the solution. Rather than perceiving the customer frustration as a personal attack, think of yourself as a person that the customer is coming to for help”.

“How you respond to the complaining customer will determine the long term loyalty of the customer. Take care of a customer who takes time to communicate with you, and you may preserve the loyalty. Let them go, and they will communicate the experience to many other potential customers”.

Dave.6819:

Peow peow.2189:

@Klowdge, @ Davee

First of all, there is more then one build that gaurantees win on thief.

As an experiment myself and 4 friends all qued up in spvp kitten d/d thiefs. We roamed the map in groups of 2 with 1 guy holding home and literally 1sec comboed the enemiy team. Players were disconnecting because what we were doing was unstoppable, and simply overpowered.

Sure at the moment you dont see thief picked up in every battle, but give it a month and people will start noticing how strongly buffed the class has become in comparison to others, over the last few patches.

The first thing that must be done if we wish to have a good game, is to cut all weapon evades from the thief class, as they currently have enough evades through dodge rolls and utilities, as well as vigor.

The second step to making a more balanced thief, is to give each class that isn’t a thief a new ability. This ability will counter stealth for a few seconds. Lets say the thief is DP and spamming powder/heart seeker or DD with CnD. Well stealth lasts up to 5 – 10 sec, therefore we make a skill that reveals invisible units for 4 seconds on a 20 second cooldown. This skill will be called eye seeker and a hard counter to perm stealth builds. Every class but thief will have this as an optional utility.

The last step to rid the game of this Overpowerd character and to balance the class, would be to scale attack speed according to enemy armour. The thief currently puts out to much damage to fast, with a quick attack speed and 100% crits with hidden killer. If an enemy has high armour, the thief will then be dealt a frost effect after hitting from stealth, this effect would reduce attack speed per strike. The effect will stack up to 4 times, reducing attack speed by 25% each stack.

With these changes made, we have a more balanced meta with thiefs becoming a more challenging class to play, instead of the insta-win they are at the moment.

Thief and Mesmer is already the most challenging classes. (i tried every class and all of em were easy mode compared to these two). so yeea….. make it more challenging. ruin the game and make all thieves roll some cheesy rangers. u all just hate thieves so bad that u want em nerfed that no1 would even play it. oh and btw about ur “dd thief team”. any classes paired with 2 are unstopabble. i tried that on medi guard. and i had a friend with same build medi guard also. guess what? we could 2v3/4. so of course… 2 players paired are quite OP. anyway whatever. i just hope devs wont listen to you cuz its the only class that is still fun (but if devs will nerf it thnx to such trolls like you then there wont be anythin left in GW to enjoy). all other classes in GW are easy and boring mode. dont even understand how people can play Guard/Warr/Ranger. i fall asleep on those.

PS. in general – stop complaining bout classes. its MMO. hard/easy counters are nature. have some respect for other classes. and instead of moaning learn your class or make such build that you would be a very successful on it (every class has that). im out. sick of these QQ/omg/OP posts. l2p or gtfo instead of cryin.. >_>

Did you read this?

http://www.tentonhammer.com/editorial/guild-wars-2-are-thieves-and-mesmers-cause-meta

Fluffball.8307:

They used to tell us more things and then the community would consistently lose their kitten when things were off schedule or changed in any way from when they told us about it months and months ago.

Did Arena net update the community of changes and give reasons why? Is that responsibility of a company to give their customers update of changes and to why?

—Fixing and resetting customer expectations—

“From time to time you are going to fail to meet customers’ expectations. It’s the nature of the beast. There are a number of reasons why this might happen from poor customer service, under-trained staff, expectations set incorrectly, or even growing pains where expectations have changed”.

“The key is how,you go about acknowledging you have stuffed up and how you put systems in place to fix and reset customer expectations. What I like to recommend is immediately when you have find out that you’ve failed to meet expectations is to contact your customer. Get the complete picture of what’s going on and try to tee up a meeting. This shows that you really care about their business”.

“At the meeting your aim will be to fix any discrepancies that have caused the problem in the first place. Some will be fixable like training employees, but you may also need to reset customer expectations. Here you’ll have to explain to your customer that things have changed”.

Terrorsquad.2349:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Supreme.3164:

All in all I don’t believe that I’m being unfair or overly judgemental here, I can clearly see the counterplay to all other professions, in some case the amount of counterplay some professions (elementalist) receive is..truly staggering..

1 Boon rip spamm on revenant
2 Chill applied to necro specialization auto-attack
3 Celestial nerfed
4 Dmg/sustain nerfs across the board ( removed bountiful power, bolt to the heart, air training etc etc)

And I believe thief is getting a little bit too strong by comparison, therefore a little hint of added counterplay would go a long way

They wont nerf celestial

They said on a stream they would shave the stats with 10 or 15%.

—https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-Celestial-Meta-It-hurts/page/5—

—https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/balance/Celestial-Ferocity-nerf—

—https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Impact-on-PVP-with-no-stats-from-traits/first#post5004601—

" Action Always Proves Why Word Mean Nothing "

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Supreme.3164:

It’s not fair that I use a high CD utility/skill and I still can’t hit the thief as he remains invisible even after the failure

Removing block from someone isnt necessarily a failure, its what most experienced thieves do to remove Aegis before using Venom.

The only thing that this so called ‘counterplay’ would do, is destroying thieves and remove them out of the game entirely in PvP. You can say w/e you want but being able to block and blind 20 times is pretty sad aswel and has barely counter either.

In fact, most classes that can block considering PvP builds, are the ones being able to win vs thieves (1v1 and/or teamfights, w/e u want)

The only thing I would say is a good change is to have a max cap of stealth, like 5 seconds.

You’re talking about removing block, I’m talking about removing block while being stealthed, in which case the mistake of the thief is obvious.

I was talking about removing block in stealth, its what we do to remove Aegis before using venom.. It’s a tactic, not a failure.

I can live with 2s reveal after 5s stealth, wouldnt make much of a difference for me.
Remember the reveal bug couple of weeks ago? Was actually fun for me as it was a bit more challenging, despite some traits/combo didnt work anymore.

I am glad you admit it.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Volrath.1473:

seriously… how can you ppl see a nerf here?!…

the nerf is change

It will be change when it is serious action

" Taking Serious Action Creates Explosive Results "

Arena net: it is time for Explosive Results from thief profession!!

Zero Day.2594:

DarkSyze.8627:

Zero Day.2594:

DarkSyze.8627:

For Zero Day include Thief Players:

You ask if thief profession was Op so why not have alot thief players in parties and fights?

I have answer/question: think about it: maybe reason why is, wining all the time and using the same builds and same moves/play-style all the time is too boring for them so they play other professions that offer different builds with different moves/play-style?

…

It is the decision, the choice, they made, what they play and not play. Allow them to grow up and own up to the decision they made – it’s harmless since it’s a game after all. If they choose to play other professions and exclude one, that’s by choice. If they see it boring to do the same thing over and over again, that’s fine, they can play other professions and come back whenever they please/find those professions boring. If they’re tired of winning all the time and switched over to “not winning all the time”, it is again by choice.
They’re allowed to make them (choices and decisions), and they should own up to it. If they make a choice/decision and then blame others for it… well… it shows a personal flaw.

How that relates to something being OP, is beyond me.

I already answer: Arena net design the thief profession to guarantee win: that is why.

Guarantee goes against choice and make rewards mistakes instead of punishment.

Can you create a thief on your account? You don’t have to do it, just yes or no, if you can create one.

I think about it sometimes, i will soon.