Guild Wars 2

MiLkZz.4789:

SFR didn’t had trouble getting back into T1. It just takes some time.

Lol you had a lot trouble getting back to T1.
You won T2 three times and with each “victory” you made minus and moved further away from T1. You only made it up because Piken were demoralized from the guild-transfer and stopped playing. And even with that you made it only by 0.06pts and a millenium-mistake of 5pts.

T1 vs T8 is currently not possible and thats why T1 and T8 (and anything in between) are that far apart.

With a ranking based probability of matches T1 vs T8 becomes possible, but still is very unlikely, i.e. like the main price in a lotterie.

I don’t think that such a match will destroy a server, 24/7 is not needed to achieve a big boost in ranking points vs a much higher ranked server. A successful guerrilla tactic with thieves and mesmer groups roaming supply-camps would already gain you ranking points. And it’s not a 1vs1, maybe the low-tier server can be the decisive factor in the fight of two high ranked servers.

It opens up new challenges, every match will be different and most importantly: the weeks and now even month of always the same match will have an end.

naphack.9346:

I can already see JQ losing points to FC and GOM because they can not beat them by 650k points(only by 620k)

Yes and that only shows that JQ is (likely still better, but) not that much better than FC or GOM than the current broken ranking suggests.

To answer the question first: We cannot know anymore.

The reason is very simple, the tiers are now that far apart, that switching between tiers is no longer possible. Each tier now only plays it’s own inner-tier ranking (around the brackets average rank), but comparison between tiers is not possible anymore as there are no switches between tiers anymore..

Determine the matches has to be decoupled from the ranking for Glicko-2 to work properly. E.g. determine matches using on a rank-based probability and not using a rank-based determination.

Doomdesire.9365:

I would like to know how a greatsword fits in that box.

You can only get Asura equipment from these boxes.

However, due to some patented Asura nano-tech, they automatically resize to perfectly fit the wearer.

Bren.9320:

You guys have no clue how Glicko rating works, do you?
Deso wont go to T2 anytime soon.

If ANet doesn’t switch the ratings and no world in T1/2 “crashes” the T1 and T2 matches will stay forever. Even with the Transfer-demotivated Piken & Jade, SFR needed a lot luck (5pts error on millenium) to get to T1. So you guys can enjoy your T1-and we can enjoy our T2 match till eternity or we are all bored of GW2. Funnily in both matches we can laugh about french anti-french conspiracy theories

Le Rooster.8715:

From what i have heard the european servers are actually located in texas USA and the NA servers being in california. This would explain why europeans who transfer to NA don’t experience a massive boost in lag because the distance between the two servers isn’t vast.

I heared it differently:
- Login server for anyone are in Texas
- NA game server are in California
- EU game server are in Germany

First of all: Very nice job with the removal of culling in WvW.
The view of battles really gain epic dimensions.
However, If I look at such a battle (or a screeny of it, e.g: https://forum-de.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/T2-Elonafels-Kodasch-Jademeer-KW-12/243920) I noticed 3 things I would like to be able to change:
1) Titles should not be in “friend-color”, as this makes it hard to see if there are friends in the enemy zerg.
2) It should be possible to switch title-display off, as it would be much easier to to see the enemy size, if all people have only 1 name-line and not 1-2 lines.
3) I would like to turn name-display for totally dead off. This would make it much easier to see, if this “hord of enemies” on this hill is dangerous, or a few living rezzing a lot of dead or only an “abandoned graveyard”.

Hehe, you didn’t knew before? Every Kodashie get a toy arrow car as child,
a normal one as youth, and a superior one when joining the war-force.

An Elonians are well know to attack with more Golems than fitting into one portal anymore.

As we play against each other now for the 9th time (8:1 for Elona), of course Kodash learned to use Golems, and Elona experimented with all those conquered arrow cars.

If our engineer would not always fight against each other but collaborate more
our joined weapon development would be ready now.
Beware of the future ultimate weapon of combined german engineering shown in:
https://forum-de.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Elonafels-DE-vs-Laubenstein-FR-vs-Kodash-DE-2/204413

Have a look at
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups
to see how the servers perform in WvW.
If you choose a top-3 server you have 24/7 action

Only a WvW-player feels not alone, if their screen shows only enemies.
Only a Wvw-player feels to be in danger, if their screen shows only friends.
Only WvW-player are doing AoE to areas with piles of already dead.
Only WvW-player aren’t wondering that the pile of deads is AoEing back.

I don’t think that an unimportant thing like a player kills or get killed need to be synced.
Your server decide if you are dead or not. And the other players server decide if the other player is dead. And if the outcome is that both, none or one or the other is dead this is all fine. We do not talk about 1vs1 duels here, we talk about WvW.

It doesn’t really matter for the outcome of WvW how these decisions are made. They are defined to be correct just by being made. The only thing that matters is that they are unambiguous. And that does not need that both servers are in the same state, it only needs that there is a clear assignment of which server decide for which player.
Then the server (and all it’s clients) which is not the authority for a player will notice the fate of the player one cycle later. I.e. you see the player still up, when he is already down, or you see him in downstate, when he is de facto already up again. This delay happens also with 1 server and distant clients and cannot be avoided.

Only the outcome of events is relevant for the outcome of a match, therefore only event-decisions have to be synced between the servers before they are communicated to the clients.

Fuzzion.2504:

What worlds are these, i have never heard of them

It’s in the title: Elona-Reach-vs-Jade-Sea-vs-Kodash-EU-T2

The boss and jp chests on wvw maps contain them as well.

Currently the best way to get them is zerg vs zerg fights with an AoE Char, e.g. Nero or Ele. 50 per hour is a quite common result.

Why not. Every critical process that is controlled by computers (Gw isn’t such a thing, but this is in production e.g. at nuclear plants since >30 years) is controlled by at least 2 mirrored computer, such that if one fails the other can take over immediately.

You can do it as follows:
Every client sends everything to both servers (instead of just 1), both servers compute the state and sends the infos out to just “their” regionally assigned clients.
As there is always some loss, both servers sync for critical actions like events.

See it as a statistics page not as a reward page.

As such it is nice. If I would got the title at 10k kills, I would not knew
anymore how many kills I did.

@zamalek: This is about merging EU-NA servers and build matches of the merged servers. In that case 40vs5 is not necessarily 40 EU vs 5 NA, but it maybe 20 NA+20 EU vs 5 NA.

Assigning it to the minority (EU) doesn’t help the smaller team (all in NA).

There are better ways than either all in US or all in Germany.

You can determine where the majority of players of a match comes from and assign the match there, then only the minority of a match has worser ping.

You can assign servers based on time, at EU primetime the match is running on a server in Germany, at US primetime it’s running in US. So matches switch server every 12 hours.

Or most advanced you run matches on pairs of US-German servers.

Don’t combine servers, replace the WvWvW competition by a

Guild-Alliance vs Guild-Alliance vs Guild-Alliance

competition, where the alliances can be freely build over NA/EU borders.

@Junkpile: Better make a shield vs arrow-car arrows now

@Sird: Being able to planning their next match (without have to go down a tier) to their favor has my respect, harming an opponent by absorbing their guilds does not has my respect

Well, no idea if this is true or not, but Elona proved that they are quite neutral in whom they fight in a match.
(Opposing to SFR and Deso, that are already known to like to ally against Vizu. If I would be Vizu I wold like to avoid a situation where a 2:1 vs me is more likely as well)

Looks like this fair neutrality pays out in times where the german telecom hindered us to access GW2 without massive laags

A plan B for culling:

Why is there culling currently:
If every team has 100 player on map this is 300 in total.
In principle it must be assumed that everyone can see everyone, i.e. all 300 are in sight-range (if you set the range to the whole map this is sure, if you set the range very small, it is unlikely, but can still happen e.g. during SM lord room fights).

For that the server must receive per “update” 300 infos (i.e. one per player) and send out 89’700 infos (every player needs to be informed about all others: 300*299).

If your server can do that fine. If not the easiest way to handle it is reduce the number of players. And this makes things much easier.

If you say 50 per team, only 22’500 infos must be send.
If you say 33 per team, only 10’000 infos must be send.

30vs30vs30 battles would be still nice, 50vs50vs50 battles would be still epic,
you hardly want larger ones.

Of Course, if ANet would just say only 30 (or 50) per team and map, prime-time queues will be a mess for everyone.

Here are two possible ways to handle that:

1) Overflow maps (not like the current bugs).

When EB has queue for 2 of the three servers a copy of EB is started (resumed from last save). When the total population of all active EBs would fit into WvW with one less active EB, one EB is shutdown (1min pre-anounced) and saved till next activated.
Ticker is running for all active maps, so the total ticker varies (only 695 if there is exactly 1 EB active).

Beside being Plan B for Culling it has two other good (in my view) effects:
During “not prime-time” the total number of payers may fit into just the BLs, in that case maybe no EB is active. i.e. night-capping is (fully-automatic by the amount of players that WANT play, and without any definition of primetime) reduced to BLs only. If you want to maximise that effect: Shutdown all BLs if all active player fit onto just one map, i.e. EB.

Setting a smaller number of maximal players makes the maps virtually larger (each player has more space).

2) Replace WvWvW by GuildAlliance vs GuildAlliance vs Guild Alliance.

People have no influence on how many players on their world likely want to play at which time, as they have no influence on who is (or joins or leaves) their world.
This changes when player-build alliances fight each other instead.
People can build their alliance for coverage and distribution, they can choose if they prefer the risk of queue over the risk of being out-manned and add guilds according to that or not.

Very nice one, here a few comments:

> 1.3.a): Remember you can fast travel between any lands by hitting the waypoint or going through the portals.

You can only see and use the WPs of a map after you were at least once on that map. So a short visit of every map at start is useful

> 1.5 – Leaving WvWvW

d) You can exit WvW (as any PvE map) also by teleporting to sPvP.
Open the sPvP dialog and press “go to .. mists”

>1.5 – Killing an opponent

1.5 is used twice

> 4.6.2 – Repair Walls/Doors

If you repair Walls/Doors while the siege event is active, repairing
(as well as killing attacker) qualifies you for event-success.

4.9 If your world has a WvW TS, you can ask for connect infos in the map chat.
You should not say much there, but listing may give you valuable informations about position of your and enemy people.

4.10 Don’t worry about strange ‘x’, ‘r’, ‘k’, …, numbers between 1-15 in the map-channel.
They are usually chat- replies to verbal-TS questions for volunteers or supply status.

There is hardly any untakeable location in WvW, with 20ppl doing a night attack you can take nearly everything, if you aren’t in T1.

And if it is for a hard to get location for your server, you may even recruit your 20+ in lion arch

Only a WvW player knows why he is red/blue/green this week.

Color depends on the Rank at the start of the match.
Here you can see the actual rank and the likely next matchups:
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups

You are GREEN (Rank 1, 4, 7, …) if you are best ranked in your match at start of the match, BLUE (Rank 2, 5, 8, …) if second and RED (Rank 3, 6, 9, …) if third.

And on Ethernal Battlefields this makes sense, Red is the easiest position and green the most difficult one, blue in the middle.

And this has been asked and answered in several dozen posts.

The only real solution is to take competition out of WvW and do (shorter) random matches (like random sPvP) just as training ground and for the fun-factor.

AND add a new competitive (like team sPvP)

Guild-Allicance vs Guild-Alliance vs Guild-Alliance

where guild-alliances are freely build over server and NA/EU boundaries.

When a match is setup it will take place on a server (US or Germany) where the majority is closer by. (or it switches depending on the time of the day, 12h in Germany 12h in US)

We put Vizunah Square and Jade Quary into a separate 2-side match and Play EU and NA without them

PS: To ensure 3-side matches without them, Baruch Bay is moved to NA (most spanish are in america anyway), and the last 2 EU-server are merged.

The is a spectrum between freezing the matches (as the current math do over time)
and reseting everything.

As usual both extremes are bad!

But the math needs some adaption to counter the freezing of matches, e.g. see: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Updated-World-Ratings-Feb-8/1445715

1) Find a guild that knows to play effective Zerg (20-40 ppl) vs Zerg fights.
2) Participate with an AoE char Necro, DD-Ele, Warrior and Guardian are great for that
3) Build a party of 5 such chars.
4) Consume buf-food & Oil
5) Kill, Collect & maybe die …

Should give 20-100 badges per hour if you find enemies doing so as well.

PS: ca 12k kills produced 2.5k badges

Debois Guilbert.6413:

One of the problems the ratings now face is that the rapid rise of servers (for example, Kaineng) has extracted points from the lower tiers and transferred them to the upper ones.

This happens EVERY time any server goes up a tier.

I think a infusion of points in the lowest tier (as this tier only looses points, no one ever can get up into it) and a reduction of points in the highest tier (as this tier only gains points, no one ever goes up from it.) is needed to avoid a total FREEZE of the tiers sooner or later.

Infusion and Reduction could be something like (half can be easily varied) the following which is applied “between the matches”:
The first server looses half of the points he is in advance to the second, and the second looses half of the points he is in advance to the third.
The last server gains half of the points he is behind the second-last and the 2nd-last gains half of the points he is behind the 3rd-last.

For the table above
JQ was 77pts before SoR, so it’s rating would be reduced to 2170
SoR was 12pts ahead of SoS, so it’s rating would be reduced to 2133
ET was 36pts behind FC so ET would be increased to 638
FC was 260pts behind SF so FC would be increased to 786

This way the flow of points from the lower to the higher tiers gets balanced with a flow from 1st to last tier.The mean in T1 is reduced such that switches between T1 and T2 become possible and the mean in T8 would be increased such that switches between T7 and T8 become possible again as well.

@wickedgreen: Make sure you got all “red” points this week, current WvW score says you will be “blue” next week (1st in a match is green, 2nd blue, 3rd red)
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA

An Ehmry bay looks like going up a tier, you can try vs Sturmbluff Isle next week

Kazuno.9218:

Dayra.7405:

Currently the guys with alarm-clock have much more influence on match-outcome.

Wrong , the prime time guys have as much influence on the match-outcome.
If on VS we were making point only in morning we will be losing.

Without them it would be harder, but you would still win.
For simplicity let’s divide the day in 2 times a 12h: off-time and prime-time.
Assume at off-time Server A has 695:0:0 score, and
at primetime Server A sleeps so score is 0:X:Y, with X+Y =695
If neither X nor Y is 0 all time Server A wins.

mickers.2715:

“Fighting quality is rather irrelevant to win WvW.”

Which in my opinion is stupid and brings no skill to it once you learn where to place siege.

I am not a fan of it as well, but it is reality and I made several proposals to change the scoring in the forum, but I also see the priorities, culling and skill-laags are even worser problems for “fighting-quality” that have to be solved first.

WvW shutdown at night will never happen, ANet said that everyone should be able to play anything at any time.

And why are you frustrated about something you should know since 6 month?
By design the best 24/7 coverage wins WvW. Fighting quality is rather irrelevant to win WvW.

So you have two choices:
1) Motivate your guild to buy an alarm-clock and get up at 4am to win a T1-match.
2) Enjoy fighting when you wana fight, but ignore if you win or loose the match.

Maybe there is a third possibility:
Convince ANet that the ticker-scoring should be weighted by the amount of players in WvW would result in both: everyone can play at any time with full rewards AND anyone has the same influence on match-win at any time.
Currently the guys with alarm-clock have much more influence on match-outcome.

Current 100g commander are fine for pure PvE-Map only, but should not work on WvW-Maps.

Guild Commander should be introduced, build by guilds via influence and visible only to guild members.

I like the different ranks. Maybe they can be enhance by visibility range for non-squad members on the map. Also a commander should see it’s squad-members in any distance.

Desolation guild on http://www.gw2guilds.org
[KEM] Kemarahan, Indonesia, 460
[MATA] Matadores, Mexico, 650

Elona guilds on http://www.gw2guilds.org
[DUMB] you are dumb if you believe this, Thai-speaking Canadians, 666

so …

No score-ticker for offline maps, but they are saved and resumed in this state, when it goes online again. So you get your points while you are fighting (i.e. the map is active) and you get it back in this state, whenever it is needed. But you do not get so many points for capturing it and going to bed as you get them now. I see this even as an advantage.

I guess it can only work for EB. The 3 borderlands are always active, the number of active EB maps varies from 0 to whatever primetime population needs.

Make the number of maps (with smaller population limit than now) dynamic.

Whenever the servers have a queue for all WvW-Maps a new server start a new WvW-map. While they are active they produce score-ticker as usual.

When the population shrinks the map saves it’s state and is shut down and the remaining people are distributed over the still active maps or Lion’s Arch.

=> Less Culling and Laag problems, due to reduced population per map.

=> Less Queues due to additional dynamic maps

=> Less PvD, as the maps are shutdown while there isn’t enough mass to fight.

The problem is: Glicko works a bit like a pump, that moves points from the bottom to the top.
When a server goes up a tier, it has higher points than the one that come down.
By that the upper tier gets an infusion of points that increases the mean-rating in the tier and the lower tier get a reduction of points that decreases the mean-rating in the tier.

Matches in a tier, are more or less neutral to the mean-points of the tier, what servers get as plus the other servers loose as minus, i.e. the sum of all plus and minus in match is more or less 0, and therefore the mean of a tier doesn’t change much.

In all tiers beside the top and the bottom tier this is more or less balanced, because they have a plus from the lower tier and a minus to the upper tier.

But the top and the bottom tier are imbalanced, top only gains points and bottom only looses points and thats why the borders to them become more and more impassable.

I think to avoid that there must be an external reduction of points in T1 and infusion of points in T8 (or a cap, after the rank is determined every server above 2000 pts is caped to 2000 and every server below 1000 points is capped at 1000).

Gab Superstar.4059:

On my EU server I play in the middle of prime time where you even zerg to take supply camps.

Of course, the zerg needs supplies, so it has to take some camps before it can attack a tower or fortress. But beside the main zerg (40+) we try to have several coordinated (they speak with the zerk-commander in a separate TS-channel) small groups (5-20) to take supply-camps, kill dollies, produce battle symbols, take towers, sneak opening of fortresses outer area …

In prime-time this is per map, in off-time this is with scouts on the maps and jumping of zerg and small-groups between maps

No idea how you do it in NA-T1, but in EU-T1 this seems to be standard.

ganeshori.6309:

I got the Millenium set on hot key myself…but that site seems to be well off of current points.

Well, the site is in europe, the ones that check the updates are sleeping during NA-primetime.

Yes, with all three servers massing in your fortress is was quite unplayable.

In some areas (e.g. Bavaria, Zurich, …) school-kids have winter/ski holiday now. (some areas already had them, some will have them later, some areas don’t have them et al)
For worker there is currently no official holidays in Germany, but there is Carnival. In some regions of Germany people may (depend on your boss) have free.

Currently Swiss Students have their lecture-free time, I think next week German students will start their lecture-free time. (No idea about Austrians)

So yes, some (but not many) more german-speaking available to play at times where they usually have to work.

Irate Platypus.9318:

Nobody’s advocating that we play Jade Quarry. Henge of Denravi? Maybe interesting. Maybe not, but nobody knows because #22 hasn’t played #21 in a month.

I agree with you that some match borders are to solid now, especially the T1-T2 and the
NA T7-T8 / EU T8-T9 border are now to established and usually need a to long time and to strong domination to be broken et al.

But the reset is like shooting with a cannon on a bird sitting in front of your house with respect to this problem. To much harm for to little gain.

Adaptation of the formula, switching the last in the upper tier with the first in the lower tier (always, every 2nd time, or with 50% chance) would do better to solve the problem with much less side-effects.

Alex.9268:

Very sad

Vizunah for another week and blue again. I wish we had more people on in the early mornings, at least then it would be a (fun?) competition.

Depends on your goals
Goal1: If you have the goal to Win as a server, even in times where you are not playing you are right
Goal2: If you have the goal to have interesting battles while you are playing you cannot get a better opponent, Vizu offers you to be there for you whenever you like to play.

And if you wonder where Elona is: I think when we are in T1 without holidays we are happy with goal2, only if we have either holidays or are in T2 we “upgrade” our goals to goal1

@Irate Platypus:
So you are at Ferguson’s Crossing a T8 server with (currently or always? I’ve no idea I play EU-ladder) no chance to win in T8.

If Sorrow’s Furnace dominates you, what do you think will happen if you play vs e.g. Jade Quarry?

I can tell you: on all 4 maps you will not be able to leave the spawn 24 hours a day for all 7 days. Whenever you try you will be farmed immediately. (Maybe after 1-2 days the Jade Quarries got to bored by the match and go to the forum instead of WvW to post complains in the forum)

So what will you gain from random matches or a reset? An even more frustrating experience, not more!

Server WvW-population is not balanced and decisive for matches, mixing up the matches without mixing up the population will not work. And who likes to be forced to a server.

The only way for you to get a different (positive) WvW experience is to switch servers.

Or ANet drops the idea of server vs server and replace it by server-independent alliance vs alliance

Kingface.9781:

I lol’ed thinking about all servers calculation to avoid VS next week.

Yeah looks like we have to enjoy them for another week.
But better loosing with nice fights against Visu and Deso again, than being bored against Underworld and Baruch instead.

That the cancellation is announced only 1 day before this week is MUCH BETTER than the 4 day ahead announcement of the reset last week. This week I don’t see much harm, but last week it destroyed some of the matches as some servers stopped playing for win (to have a better position to win points in a lower tier).

ilmau.9781:

This is not a serius company behavor…they reset they dont reset… It s ridiculous.

Yeah I must say: Big Gratz to SFR for your “winning strategy” last week.
You now do more minus in T2 than we do in T1

@MrAdri: Have a look a the already updated http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#EU

No EU matches were mostly settled before the reset as well. The empty servers would have reached the lowest brackets end of this or next week as well without reset. But if the reset continues as millenium.org currently computes everything will be messed up next week in EU as well.