Guild Wars 2

I guess silvos means Arbor. Yeah we hit Arbor hard in Week 2, as did Deso in the 2 weeks before. I’ve no idea what exactly happened on Arbor, maybe the delusional insight that T1 is totally out of scope for Arbor at that time broke the community. A pity, but not Elona’s fault. We got kicked out of T1, but were still much stronger than T2 …

And concerning Jade: If we would have double-teamed with Kodash we would have been in T1 faster. But as we did not we did not made it faster during french holidays.

In fact we not even focused Jade, we hit Kodash so hard as well that 2+ valuable guilds lost fun fighting in T2 and left Kodash to Abbadon’s. Still Kodash does not seem much weaker than jade, now that we aren’t in T2 “to help them” (sigh you need some ear-protection, if you say that to a Kodash). In fact, currently T2 on millenium looks more like we helped Jade during the last weeks to stay ahead of Kodash.

Mif.3471:

WvW matchups are a marathon, not a sprint.

^^ A marathon only last some hours, not 10 weeks. It’s more like “in 80 days around the world”

Look at EU T1-T2, we needed 10 weeks domination against the same opponents in T2 to get up into T1 and we aren’t the ones that get owned in T1.

Matchmaking is broken since months!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Matchups/1839470

Vote for https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Suggestion-WvW-2-0
or any of the other replacements proposed in the forum.

On Millenium it looks already like Piken replaces SFR in T2 next friday. We don’t want to be double teamed by two french servers.

So fight a week please, till Piken or Kodash can replace you

We were meant as the Big Brother And Big and Small brother liked kicking into their a**** so much that we both quite often forgot about Jade during the last 10 weeks

PS: @kovah: It’s weekend! It’s not the first time that we are ahead of Vizu during the weekend, the hard part is to bring the score over the nights during the week.

Currently it looks like the current rating system is totally broken and not et al able to generate balanced matched anymore.

Now that the EU T1-T2 barrier got climbed once by Elona and SFR is down to T2, it looks so far as Elona is able to give Vizu a fight. And Vizu’s domination of T1 is not the result of Vizu turning into a superpower, but SFR and Deso went far below their former T1 niveau. It even looks like SFR is not even able to compete in T2.

This liga system proposed here can hardly give more unbalanced fights that the current system does.

Sa morning 8:40 in EU-T1

Looks like the decay of SFR and Deso during the last weeks, let Vizu fall asleep as well

And the rating system is really badly broken!

It’s not Glicko that is broken. Glicko is perfect for ranking based on (random) matches. The mistake ANet made is to determine the next match based on the ranking.

If you would separate Ranking and Match-Making, e.g.
-. looser down, winner up, or
- random matches, or
- probabilistic matches, or
- a liga-system like proposed in https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Suggestion-WvW-2-0, or
- …
to determine the matches, Glicko would work perfect for the rating.
Just the feedback loop of rating based on matches and matches based on rating was a big mistake.

There is also some inertia included as well. (see EU-T1 at millenium.org).
Vizu does not loose all (but a large portion of) it’s rating advantage, just because its score is below average.

The best way of playing Glicko is a regular look at http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#EU and “get a feeling for it”

If you score is above score average your end-glicko-rating will be above glicko-average.

For the exact number you have to use the formuals, I don’t think it is a linear function.

Glicko does not give you points for winning a match.

Glicko give you points if you perform better than expected and it takes points from you if you perform worser than expected.

The expectation is computed from the Glicko ratings at start of the match.

If you have a higher Glicko score than your opponent at the beginning of the match you are expected to win by a corresponding (don’t know the exact parameters) score quotient. If you do exactly this you do not get nor loose points. If you reach a better quotient you gain points, if you reach only a worser quotient than you loose points.

The “watermark” of a match is the average Glicko-Score of a Match.
And this average does (nearly) not change due to a match.
What one server gains the others have to loose (and vice versa).
So the average is (mostly) the same before and after the match.

If you are above average you dominate at least one server of the match, the stronger you dominate (or get dominated) the further you move away from the average.
If you dominate stronger than last week (with the same servers) you gain points, if you dominate less you loose.

If a server of your match goes up and a another drops down your match looses average Glicko-Score (as the up-going has more points than the downcoming). If a server of your match goes down and another comes up your match gain average Glicko-Score.

So whenwever there is a tier-switch of servers Glicko-points are moved from the lower tier to the upper tier. This is the reason why the matches stagnated now after several switches within the 8 month it is now in use.

To get up you need to dominate your match much more to go up than some month ago. And if you finally succeed you increase the distance between the tiers, such that the next switch happens only after even stronger domination.

Junkpile.7439:

I just see 100 zerglings nametag mess so i don’t see great guilds

Either they doubled their population since 8pm, or you are drunken and see them twice

Hi Deso’s, what’s your expectation/wishes for next week?
For example:
[ ] Leave T1 as fast as posssible?
[ ] Play a normal match?
[ ] Revenge on Viz?
[ ] Show the newcomer that you are still stronger?
[ ] ….

Thanks for info (and if it has no other sense, every answer helps to fill the 100 pages)

Avoid the red areas around Kodash possessions:
https://forum-de.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Wo-man-vor-Pfeilwagen-sicher-ist
:)

Concerning Jade: Vizunah-Light, describes several aspects of game-play quite well

Only a WvW-player needs to buy a trap to see all it’s opponents.

Balancing is one thing, but the looser should loose, right? Otherwise it doesn’t make sense to be better and to play for victory.

Maybe you can “buy” advantages to outmanned buf by spending score or Glicko-rating points, i.e. something like you accept defeat, but you can still play. However, I’ve no idea how to prevent grief-play with that

Atherakhia.4086:

Need to do something for rams otherwise they’ll never be used against gates again. In medieval times we would attach housings to the rams so the 10 men controlling the ram wouldn’t be hit by tar pits and arrows from above.

Hm, maybe superior rams, should get an Arrow-Protection (for the user, and maybe 4 others) instead of their superior damage (over normal rams).

Deniara Devious.3948:

We can just speculate why Arenanet never replies to these threads. Does it take that much time to type “We are aware of the problem and working on it”. It took me 10 seconds to type that.

That’s something they nearly (aware and discussing) did a month ago:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Fixing-the-WvW-ranking-and-pairing-flaws/1773650
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Fixing-the-WvW-ranking-and-pairing-flaws/1773716

But obviously their thinking and discussing so far did not produced anything communicable

Cruzyo.7304:

yeah I know, but as I said it felt like the waypoint was open for much longer than this second, guess that was a wrong impression due the situation xD

I noticed that also the WPs have “Skill-Laags”: they open later than they should and stay open longer than they should. So if you had a large battle inside with skill-laags, the WP may have been open longer than usual.

Still the current WP block has 2 disadvantages which I do not like, and that could be fixed as proposed in https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Why-is-SM-waypoint-contested-all-the-time/1810315
- a single hit on the outter-door by a thief can block teleports for 3min
- reinformencent (and resurrection) is possible in the 1sec Open every 3min.

I think perma-block during real fights combined with resistance against pure-block attack is superior to the current system.

Lara said it, if you have a need to see the enemy title, focus him and see the title!
This should be not difficult in a 1vs1 situation.
But it should not be shown for everyone in a zerg.

Of course an individual option would be better:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Display-Options-to-Hide-titles-Dead-Names/1713033

Angelyne.2936:

Elona is too happy to have a german server in their pool to doubleteam JS and make more cash/WXP. Coming in T1 don’t worth a thing for them, so they stay in T2 managing the score and blockade all other server that willing to move up.

Lol, you should learn german or try to get meaning out of google-translate and have a look at https://forum-de.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Kodash-vs-Elona-vs-Jade-3-5-10-5

I think there is only one reason why German servers like to have German servers in the bracket: The forum-wars can be fought in German

Anyhow, this week looks like we make it. It’s true that not all Elona’s want to T1, but I think it’s a majority in the meantime that is bored of the 10th repetition of Elona-Jade-Kodash, where now not only everyone knows the result of the match before the match started, but even accepted this outcome.
Probably not even a Jade-night-action can stop us this week, Thursday is Ascension day and this is free in all Germany.

The only one that can stop us is Deso, by stopping to be better than SFR.
The T1-T2 distance is to far (the T2 strenght-balance allows us around 1940-1950 ranking pts) to be bridged, if Deso and SFR equally share the minus they got from Vizu.

I think Angelyne made the point.

The main difference between Vizu and especially SFR but also Deso is:

Respect

Respect for the own player as well as respect for the opposing players.
Something really rare in forum posts of SFR-players.

Varonth.5830:

The problem is, which T2 server should go up.
They won’t stand a chance against VZ either.

I am on Kodash, T2 EU and we have the same matchup for 8 weeks now.
I don’t know how VZ is, but I can assume that no T2 server would stand a chance.

Why would anyone want to fight in T1, when you know you cannot win.
Megaservers are a huge problem. Huge enough for drastic actions like forced server splitting.
If a server is becoming so huge and dominant, that the lower tiers, like we in T2 actually try to lose a week, if winning would mean that they will go up a tier, then you cannot fix this by tweaking the ranking system.

There is only one fix: No more T1, use random matches instead.
Everyone has a chance, but it only lasts a week.
As a side effect, this would allow Glicko-2 to really work. Neither in tennis nor chess nor … the ranking is used to make the matches.

And again, ….

T3 hast 40 points more now due to AR – Riverside switch.
Maybe that adds some suspense to place 3 for us.

Imbalanced matches without chance of change only hit EU-T1 and EU-T7, maybe a little bit NA-T5, EU-T4 even get a change.

But EU-T1 and EU-T7 is self-made, first all move to SFR to push it up and Deso is recruiting to keep it up, just to find out after some weeks that this is not that good and spread out again (imbalancing T7 as well).

I guess it is very low on Anet prio list, especially after we stopped them to do the reset.

Air.3154:

Seems like you’re kinda missing the point.

The point is of course that the current matches stay forever, as the match-matching is broken. Now, that SFR is only T4 quality, but will stay in T1 forever, things became a little bit difficult.

With 500 gems you can switch to a green medium populated server and for another 500 gems you can switch back to SFR after a week (if you really want), but if you only want PvE on SFR you can immediately guest back to SFR as well. Not really expensive compared to the price of an legendary.

Very simple: Wait till the defender got bored (are sleeping) and take it with a bunch of golems. You have 30secs till they are notified.

Looks like Jade isn’t able to carry the fruits of it’s good start (or Elona’s bad start) to the finish line.
What went wrong? Demoralized by the patch, worker holiday or the high quality German arrow-carts?

Only a WvW player shoot at the door, if someone is knocking.
Only a WvW player attacks the own door to protect it.

tita.6358:

Vizu and Jade Sea are now basically in hollydays till half september.

Hehe, then you may have time till September to convince ANet that the rating is broken

Atoss.1056:

Guys, pls, anyone, push for points Get us out of T1 plsss xD

The longer you stay, the more likely ANet does something against this mess.
Sorry, but go on!
You do an important and honorable job there illustrating the
need for better match-making.

More serious: Jade and Vizu have another week of holiday, maybe afterwards.

Got the same result:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Pro-Nightcapping-Patch

Calvin.5380:

Define nightcapping. Whose night?

The *Night-Time" is the time where active WvW-population is low, e.g. less than 50 per server. But if it is 50 or 100 or 20 likely depend on a) tier and b) EU or NA.

Night-Capping is therefore capping of Towers/Keeps/SM during a period with lowest number of persons in WvW for the Match.

katniss.6735:

If you’re buying upgrades, you’re doing it wrong. Just farm that wexp, and save your money. wexp wexp wexp wexp wexp zergball wexp wexp wexp wexp wexp skill lag wexp wexp wexp wexp.

Or: Stare at a gate. WHEEEeeeeEEEEeEEe!

Maybe you are right. The counter-treb-player leaves his treb to repair walls and doors instead of shooting the attacking treb.

Griefing resources for repairing now gives WEXP.

And the Karma-trains (that crashed in the arrow-carts damage) will be replaced by a
build-rame destroy-rame WEXP-circle around a supply source.

Quote from the patch notes:
“The “under attack” notice at objectives now displays 30 seconds after it is first attacked. Does not affect waypoint usage.”

Not a very clear statement I got it as the delay of the display does not delay the port-block.

Ports are blocked immediately (the 30secs do not apply to ports) was written in the notes.
So if you attack something with a WP you see it immediately, but anything else you see only with 30secs delay.

Golem rush needs 40? I think 10 for 5 golems and 5 mesmer is sufficient Maybe 15 for 5 more to fight.

If I put the
- 30secs dealy before contestet, and the
- more damage by arrow-carts, and the
- treb-shoots cannot be catched anymore
together, my imagination predicts the following WvW will make most points.

Golem-rushes without opposition (you have now 30sec to capture it before it is even shown on the map) in the off-time and unbeatable arrow-carts/defensive-treb defense of everything – you captured in the off-time – during prime-time.

May the better Nightcapper win

All and only Mod messages (to all topics) you can see in:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/devtracker

A button “jump to next Mod message” in a thread would be useful.
Putting posts out of order (mod messages at the beginning and by that far away from a user post he responded to) i would not like.

You do not need to convince me.

I already proposed:
- Random matches (with ranking computed as now), or
- Probabilistic Random Matches. (everything is possible, but matches closer in ranking are more likely)

I agree that it is more fun to have very different matches every week over having balanced matches.
Zerg vs zerg vs zerg in one week
Zerg vs zerg vs guerrilla in another
zerg vs guerrilla vs guerrilla in the third.

Be good in different settings, make most out of playing against a low rank server,

Face DIFFERENT challenges every week.

Savroula.4803:

Deso or SfR should be totally inactive for 3 weeks.

Duration is very uninteresting for Glicko-2.
You have to win or loose with higher score ratio than the last time
to continue gaining or loosing points.
Just loosing may give you rating points and just winning may loose rating points.

If you loose 5 weeks or 10 weeeks or 10 years with the same score in every match you will have the same rating at the end.

What keeps them up is that Deso and SfR play equally bad. If one of them would loose points to the other, they would have been down already.

Fred Fargone.3127:

Wouldn’t that allow, say, VS go against Vabbi? Yes, I am sure that would be a matchup everyone would enjoy…

I will require a totally different play-style from Vizunah: Major-power vs guerrilla
Every Sentry and every Dolly killed with take rating points away from them.
They have to guard them all against stealth attacks and not sit with big blobs in towers.

I think it will be a big spectacle with much attention and a lot of laughs.
And Vabbi will get a lot support in their fight as well.

It would help Vabbi to have fun, if the B-info would not only show the Score, but the rating evolution as well. I think they can easily make 100pts plus in such a match.

And anyway, where is the difference in Arbor crushing them 466 900 : 32 757 and Vizu crushing them? I guess getting crushed by Arbor hurts more than being in a match with the No 1. And they are not alone there will be a third server in the match.

Jomg.9061:

Anyway, Elona and kodash already gave up fighting ? Kind of weak minds you got there, don’t you think ?

Scroll up: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/EU-T2-Elona-DE-Kodasch-DE-Jade-Sea-FR/1906846

Looks like we fighted more than we should, now Jade is 50 pts away from T1 not only 16 pts as it was 2 days ago.

Oresh.4729:

another scenario where everybody leave wvw before the tick and come back after.

Haha, if a server really manages that, it should get a bonus point.
And do not forget to dequeue all your people as well or you end up just will a full server at tick and all that tried to cheat end in the queue

Oresh.4729:

they will get full point and more because they will have 0 player on field.

???

Oresh.4729:

keep thing simple or wvw will be a math pb rather than a game pb

You don’t like math that’s evident. But why do you argue against something you do not understand?

33% of 695 is much more than 0, and you have all maps in hostile color when you come back. Your abuse strategy is only a sure loss strategy.

PS: Not that I know any server that controls it’s people well enough to do a retreat, ask Deso and SFR, they fail to get their people of the map since 3 weeks.

PPS: Your match score will be lower than in other matches, but that’s totally unimportant, Glicko is based on score quotient and there 230:0 is as better than 690:5, so your rating gain/loss will be as in other matches.

Thesilentflute.8761:

There is no prime time and off time this is a global game

Prime-time of your server is the time where your server has > 200 ppl in WvW.
Off-Time of your server is where you have < 200 ppl in WvW.

You can generalize this to matches:
Prime-time of your match is the time where the 3 servers of your match have > 600 ppl in WvW.
Off-Time of your match is where they have < 600 ppl in WvW.

You may be on a server that has 24/7 prime-time and you may be on a server that never has prime-time.

Quite easy isn’t it?

Bones.5762:

VOLKON.1290:

You shouldn’t be able to see the other servers population levels in WvW. That’s too much intel right there for free. If you want to find out, get in there and scout the map. That type of intel would result in significant changes to player allocations.

^^agreed

Alot of OP points makes sense, but the fact is AN will never implement that system that makes it where population determines how much points a server can get PPT wise as they already stated that they want everybody’s time to be equal and valuable. Besides it would be easy to abuse anyways. My solution is they should just post the scores at the end of the week instead of showing it all week long as they intended WvW to be a casual thing but showing scores certainly says otherwise.

I saw this statement by ANet. I would be nice if all players would have the same value.
But I don’t agree that this is currently the case.

Currently the prime-time player has nearly no value, and the off-time player has a lot value.

I needs 450 player in prime-time to get a 230 pts ticker, that’s 1/2 a point per player and tick. (in fact the prime-time player is worth less, if he leaves he is immediately replaced.)
I needs 50 player at night to get a 650 ticker , that’s 7 points per player and tick.

The offtime player currently is weight 14 times as important than the primetime player. (this is approx. EU-T2 numbers, I guess there are slightly different in other tiers, but the general tendency should be the same.)

It would be nice if ANet would not only believe their values, but implement them.

Edit: Where did you saw the players per server, I only saw the the total population of all three server, if you see that number you have no idea how this splits up per server.

It not the total population of a server,
it’s not even the current people online on this server in that screen-proposal,
it is only the current WvW-players.
So it can only be a number between 0 and 600 (4 maps with max 150 per server) per server (or 0-1800 per match) out of around 60’000 total server population.
Doesn’t sound like a big secret to show this.

Leorcyn.1063:

Chiolas.1326:

Playing for points is ok, but not when an injustice (PvD) kittens over our fun.

The injustice would be for the game to stop when you go to bed.
The world doesn’t revolve around your person.

Well, if you would read posts and not only write some, you would have read that I DID NOT proposed to stop WvW at night, but I proposed two variations of:

Give WvW as many score-points as there are players fighting for it.

And not as it is now: always the same number of objectives, independently of how many players are fighting for it. 10 people doing PvD currently do twice as many score as 600 people fighting hard for every point in prime-time. And this is a mess.

Whatever SFR and Deso are or aren’t, it doesn’t really matter.
Now that they are for sure no longer 2nd and 3rd best EU-server (I guess they are around 10-15), they should go the way to their place.

That not only one but two servers are stuck in a rank they don’t earn since weeks, just shows how badly broken the match-making is now and how urgently it needs a fix.