Guild Wars 2

chemiclord.3978:

If Nexon IS somehow pulling the strings with their 15% share in NCSoft (which is a shade of a stretch)… they’ve been keeping pretty well in line with cash shop items being largely cosmetic or of little consequence.

Maybe I’m just immune to the draw, but I can say there has been NOTHING in the Gem Store that I’ve felt forced or coerced into buying… or even look at the store at all.

Once again I for one never said it’s perse the items them-self so much. I also don’t feel so much of a ‘draw’ mainly because I play a game to have fun so I want to get the items buy playing, not by buying them. That not fun.

The problem however is how it effects the game. For example how I can not get items with some real playing (not farming gold), how gold is everything is this game.

What is fun about grinding away to get gold to buy mini’s? Imho it’s way more fun if a mini drops from a dungeon or a boss or a group of mobs so I can go directly for that mini in-game in stead of going for gold to then buy it. And all mini;s should be like that so you can collect all mini’s in such a way.

I almost always take the mini example but same can be said for many thinks. Dyes, crafts and so in.

It’s not so much the items itself it’s how the focus influence the game mechanic in a negative way.

Especially the PvE aspect of this game is extremely effected by game mechanics that have been influenced buy the company wanted to sell items.

Substance E.4852:

Devata.6589:

Substance E.4852:

Brother Dulfite.5793:

juno.1840:

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Well in the long term they would make less money because the type of content and game designs will destroy the game. You mean they will make more compared to what they would have made in lets say the first 1,5 year if they would else have released an expansion. Thats true. However if they keep going on like this the game will most likely be pretty dead 1,5 year from now and so making them less money then, then if they would have gone for expansions. So when you see 5+ years as long term then expansion based income would be more interesting.

However like I said, it’s a bigger risk (hyping something is easier then setting a good product that will indeed still be played 5 years from now) and Ncsoft might not be interested in that long term they just move from one investment to the next all short term.

Purely from a game viewpoint the micro-transaction bad for the game but from a financial viewpoint is all depends what you want. Get more money over a way longer period or squeeze as much money out now and then move on to the next project. So when we might say it’s a failure because the game is pretty much dead 1,5 year from now Ncsoft might see it as a success. Just remember that and then don’t buy other games from them. Then in the even longer run it might hurt them after-all.

The biggest problem is that Anet doesn’t own the Guildwars IP. They are subsidiary of Ncsoft (who also own other MMO IP’s and soon to own a brand new one) and we only get to play the game as long as they deem it profitable to keep the servers open.

Blizzard and CCP have a vested interest in keeping their games going as long as possible because they charge fees and the games are owned by them so it’s also a matter of branding. Their name means they made it and support it and a well respected brand is one of the most valuable things a company can own.
If NCsoft crunched the numbers and found it’s better for them in the long run to milk GW2 for all it’s worth and then dump it’s dry husk by the road side and focus on another title (say Wildstar?) then that’s what they will do and will get away with it because they can just release said title under another developer name and most people won’t know they are buying a game by a publisher that may have no intention of sticking in for the long run.

People sing the praises of box sale fueled games over sub fee games but at least sub fee games have a reason to keep you playing. Cash shops work to even this out in theory but if 1 guy buys gems enough to cover another 5 people then why bother making content to keep those other 5 playing if you can just keep the one guy? New content means you have to pay someone to make it and server space to host it. Anet has also painted themselves into a corner with this whole “no intention of a paid expansion” biz. We are expecting new stuff for free which means it has to be paid for with the gem store.

I think Penny Arcade hit it on the head when it comes to MMO’s published by third parties even if the strip was about digital CCG’s.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2013/05/13

Yeah I agree. I recently (because of GW2) decided that if in the future I would go to another MMO I would really look to see if a company publish there own game or if they have a separate investor (Like Anet has Ncsoft).

Then again, Everquest has a pretty good track record while they also have a separate investor.. Sony.

About the box sale fueled games over sub fee games. Thats not really true. I mean I can’t say GW2 is so much a box sale fueled game because they are now mainly generating income from there cash-shop. Not from box-sales. A real box sale fueled games pretty much means they keep making money like that. So it means they are releasing regular expansions (every year / year and a half) to so earn the money. And yes I do think that is better then a sub but at the same time it’s also very similar to a sub. The main difference is that with sub you pay for play-time for a months (or something) while with expansion based sales you pay content that should keep you busy for a year / year and a half. Biggest disadvantage of a sub is having a clock over your head and thats something you will not have if they generate income with expansions.

In both cases the priority of the game-developer is keeping people happily playing and buying the game. While with micro-transaction focus it’s trying to indeed sell that one guy that cash-shop item.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Devata.6589:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

I got back into the office this week and have been SUPER busy. So i sincerely apologies for not contributing over the past few days. I need to catch up from page 44 )-:

I intend to put a proposal together on behalf of us all this weekend. Feel free to carry on chatting and brainstorming in the interim. I am looking forward to getting back into thread and seeing it come to its conclusion.

Chris

Why don’t you put in post breaks just like Anet did in the beta forum.

I think it’s important you read every post not just the summaries however thats so much, it’s almost impossible. By putting in post breaks you could make it more manageable.

I will be reading every post. I am aware where I left of and will be continuing from there. Not sure why you think I just read summaries.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Chris

Because I don’t see how you could ever manage to get catch up. But thats maybe because I’m a slow reader myself.

Good to know that you do read every post.

About the suggestion, it worked very well during the beta forums I think.

Substance E.4852:

Devata.6589:

Melchior.2135:

Devata.6589:

Melchior.2135:

Devata.6589:

Martin Kerstein.3071:

We just wanted to respond to the image that has been data-mined from the Edge of the Mists testing branch.

This is a testing branch. We conduct internal experiments for various territories on our testing branches. This particular experiment is not being tested for the West.

As always, keep in mind that we test a lot more than we ship, so data-mining is no guarantee of anything. If we have announcements to make about future content, we’ll make them through the usual official channels.

Thanks for this statement. But if it’s not for the west then why is it in English?

For internal testing, before they hand it over to localization people maybe?

Also, haha! Somebody’s losing their Beta access over this, I’ll bet!

Maybe. Well lets hope that after these comments here they will also never get the idea to put it in a version for the west.

Beta access? It’s programmers that put that in. They most likely did not do anything wrong.

I mean that whoever mined this was in the new WvW map beta, not pulling it from live files. Or did I get the wrong impression there?

It was somebody with access to the WvW beta yes but I don’t even think data mining is not allowed so why would he lose his key over it.

Pretty sure this qualifies as breaking the NDA if one was required.

If I remember correctly (sorry for not reading all the small letters) there was no NDA. I did not pay much attention because I did not plan on making anything public anyway.

There was a lot of stuff about how to behave on the EotM beta forums and stuff. Did read that.

Behellagh.1468:

Judge Banks.9018:

Zlociutki.9165:

NEXON s…t.

Well at least someone knows who actually calls the shots on everything these days.

Honestly I’ll keep posting this image until that ridiculous rumors like that are dead and buried.

What rumors? That Nexon acquired a 15% interest in NCSoft?http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Meleagar/112012/24237_NCSoft-Sold-Arenanet-and-GW2-Out-For-Nexon-Investment
According to that pretty reliable site thats a fact, not a rumor.

Keiel.7489:

Barsimoprimo.2759:

that fact that you have the audacity to consider it for any territory is disturbing, to say the least.

Such audacity! How dare they try to make more money off of their players! They should be giving us free updates and let the people who buy gems get nothing in return! I paid my 50 bux, I should get everything forever!

No they should sell expansion every year / year and a half to make money.

Melchior.2135:

Devata.6589:

Melchior.2135:

Devata.6589:

Martin Kerstein.3071:

We just wanted to respond to the image that has been data-mined from the Edge of the Mists testing branch.

This is a testing branch. We conduct internal experiments for various territories on our testing branches. This particular experiment is not being tested for the West.

As always, keep in mind that we test a lot more than we ship, so data-mining is no guarantee of anything. If we have announcements to make about future content, we’ll make them through the usual official channels.

Thanks for this statement. But if it’s not for the west then why is it in English?

For internal testing, before they hand it over to localization people maybe?

Also, haha! Somebody’s losing their Beta access over this, I’ll bet!

Maybe. Well lets hope that after these comments here they will also never get the idea to put it in a version for the west.

Beta access? It’s programmers that put that in. They most likely did not do anything wrong.

I mean that whoever mined this was in the new WvW map beta, not pulling it from live files. Or did I get the wrong impression there?

It was somebody with access to the WvW beta yes but I don’t even think data mining is not allowed so why would he lose his key over it.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Devata.6589:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Devata.6589:

Impossible to say until we see it in practice. I just point to the fact that buying gems is also “Opt in” while the focus on gem-sales is also destroying the game so just the fact that something is “Opt in” does not mean it’s not a problem.

But how is Gem sales destroying the game? I’m very interested in how you come to this claim.

Will be the third time I will be linking this link here giving the feeling I try to promote my own thread. What is not the case. I just wrote it so I would not have to keep repeating myself. (wanted to have that said before linking it again) So have a read here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-focus-on-micro-transactions/first#post3324571 There I explain it completely.

I actually took the time to read your wall of text. What I gather from it is that you don’t like microtransactions. That’s fine. But a majority of your claims are completely based on the perception of just you and a small percentage of others in the game.

The biggest mistake you make is saying Gem store items are superior quality to in game rewards. I’m guessing your opinion is based on certain skins that have more animated effects than in game armor. While true to an extent, you forget that there’s in game skins that are just as flashy, and can be obtained without having to spend a single Gem (i.e. Legendary weapons, Zephyr backpieces, etc).

On the topic of expansions, the Living Story aims to provide an expansion’s worth of content for free. Microtransactions help to fund such ventures. Without people like me who spends money on Gems, people who just play the game without additional purchases wouldn’t benefit.

You can think how you want about Gem transactions. If you feel that a player like me having access to pretty armor skins, or a “large” mini golem is destroying the game, perhaps you should take a look in the mirror, and ask yourself “Why does that bother me?” In the end, we both play the same game, and have access to the same content. I just might stand out more.

“The biggest mistake you make is saying Gem store items are superior quality to in game rewards.” Are you sure you read it? Because I never ever said that in general. I know that somewhere I said as a side-note that there where a few good items like the SAB coin and that fluff is in PvE what winning is in PvP but thats it. The whole wall of text has nothing to to with specific gem-store items at all but is about how a focus on gem-sales effects game mechanics.

“On the topic of expansions, the Living Story aims to provide an expansion’s worth of content for free. Microtransactions help to fund such ventures. Without people like me who spends money on Gems, people who just play the game without additional purchases wouldn’t benefit.”

Nothing is for free so no focus on income from expansions means a focus on something else. That is (in GW2) indeed gem-sales and so content gets added in the LS (sort of). But like I said, I don’t like the way how that focus on gem-sales effect the game. I say it effect the game in a bad way so what you say as ’people who buy gems help the game to make that content" I say “people who buy gems help to generate that focus on the cash-shop and so help to make the game of a lesser quality”. And whiteout people like you they would be more likely to focus on expansion meaning they would get money from people like me (people who buy the expansions).

Oow and with a equal focus on both I would be less likely to buy an expansion because of the way the focus on the cash-shop has effected the game in a negative way.

“If you feel that a player like me having access to pretty armor skins, or a “large” mini golem is destroying the game, perhaps you should take a look in the mirror, and ask yourself “Why does that bother me?” In the end, we both play the same game”

Again I want to empathize that it has nothing to do with “pretty armor skins, or a “large” mini golem” but how it effects the game in other elements. And why it would bother me if it destroys the game. Well because like you say we are playing the same game and I like to play a nice, fun game.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

I got back into the office this week and have been SUPER busy. So i sincerely apologies for not contributing over the past few days. I need to catch up from page 44 )-:

I intend to put a proposal together on behalf of us all this weekend. Feel free to carry on chatting and brainstorming in the interim. I am looking forward to getting back into thread and seeing it come to its conclusion.

Chris

Why don’t you put in post breaks just like Anet did in the beta forum.

I think it’s important you read every post not just the summaries however thats so much, it’s almost impossible. By putting in post breaks you could make it more manageable.

Melchior.2135:

Devata.6589:

Martin Kerstein.3071:

We just wanted to respond to the image that has been data-mined from the Edge of the Mists testing branch.

This is a testing branch. We conduct internal experiments for various territories on our testing branches. This particular experiment is not being tested for the West.

As always, keep in mind that we test a lot more than we ship, so data-mining is no guarantee of anything. If we have announcements to make about future content, we’ll make them through the usual official channels.

Thanks for this statement. But if it’s not for the west then why is it in English?

For internal testing, before they hand it over to localization people maybe?

Also, haha! Somebody’s losing their Beta access over this, I’ll bet!

Maybe. Well lets hope that after these comments here they will also never get the idea to put it in a version for the west.

Beta access? It’s programmers that put that in. They most likely did not do anything wrong.

Martin Kerstein.3071:

We just wanted to respond to the image that has been data-mined from the Edge of the Mists testing branch.

This is a testing branch. We conduct internal experiments for various territories on our testing branches. This particular experiment is not being tested for the West.

As always, keep in mind that we test a lot more than we ship, so data-mining is no guarantee of anything. If we have announcements to make about future content, we’ll make them through the usual official channels.

Thanks for this statement. But if it’s not for the west then why is it in English?

Zlociutki.9165:

Something big is coming in 2014.

Yes it is. S..t storm.

If AN will not add new maps with:
- story for all races,
-POIs
-Vistas
-JPs
-mini dung,
- Hearts.

If they will not add new class,
not add new race (tangu),
will not ad new dungeons
will not add new boss

I will not spend any $$ on gems, i will not but this s…t.

Just make the kitteng expansion not the VIP members NEXON s…t.

Just a tip in general. Pretty much never spend money in any cash-shop of any game that is not F2P. (will still be bad in F2P games but then you go F2P so you make that decision on forehand) And when you do like in F2P games it should only be on unlocks (See LotrO type of unlocks).

Exception can be something like a character slot or world transfer, something outside of the game. But even character slots can mean the company see that as a good way to generate income so add less character slots in the future (in an expansion for example).

On the other hand. Do spend money on expansions. Buy the collectors edition or whatever. In that way you can push the attention in the correct direction. If only everybody would do that games would be of a much better quality.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The gem store has been destroying this game for months, so really this is just the next logical step.

The scary thing is… they may actually think that this is a good idea…

The scarier thing is, I can in five minutes write up how it wouldn’t be as terrible an idea as people have been claiming in this thread.

I haven’t see anybody say how terrible it was. Just that it’s yet another step in the wrong direction. Just saying. How bad it is people can only see after it’s possible release.

Nageth.5648:

Devata.6589:

Nageth.5648:

I’d like a more detailed explanation why buying expansions is good but an optional sub is bad. What if they gave away expansions for free supported by people who pay subs and buy currency like EVE? How is that model worse than paying for expansions?

You are asking multiple questions and comparing a optional sub to a full sub? Anyway I will take it part by part.

“I’d like a more detailed explanation why buying expansions is good but an optional sub is bad.”

An optional sub still means the income is mainly generated by a cash-shop or similar system. That means game-design is focused on you buying the items (that might also be part of the sub.)
Of course I can imagine an optional sub that works good. For example if they do not really give you anything in the game.. yeah maybe some tag but thats it. However in stead it would give you access to beta test for upcoming content.
But in the current case the problem there is that mostly the core focus will still be micro-transactions and a optional sub is pretty much just a way to get part of those micro-transactions elements automatically.

So why is that focus bad. Once again my links: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-focus-on-micro-transactions/first#post3324571 read here why.

“What if they gave away expansions for free supported by people who pay subs and buy currency like EVE? How is that model worse than paying for expansions?”
You mean the people who pay a subscription for x months get the expansion for free but the people who buy the game / expansion get the ‘game-time’ for free. Yeah that would also work just fine. But thats not the case here.

You didn’t explain anything at all. How does an optional sub mean more money needed from the gem shop but optional expansions doesn’t mean more money needed from gem shop?

And your last statement saying my theoretical isn’t the case here. Prove it. How is that not a possibility. Point to evidence. You can’t, because we have no evidence what is going on. Lets not spread FUD when we have no idea what the specifics are.

Well then I guess I did not understand your question and to be honest I am still not sure if I get it.
What do you mean with an optional expansion?

When you focus on expansions you don’t need to focus on a cash-shop.
Pretty much you don’t need a cash-shop because you focus on expansion.

With an optional sub the focus is usually still on the cash-shop and the optional sub mainly gives you some thinks automatically that are in the cash-shop plus some other little thinks.

So then the question becomes. Why a focus on expansion in stead of a focus on a cash-shop and I did explain that in the link.

About the theoretical option.. No thats not the case.. GW2 does not have the option to buy expansions or a subscription.

CETheLucid.3964:

Devata.6589:

It’s a huge thing. I don’t say it’s a ‘broken’ thing. It just gives you a huge benefit VS not having it.

Not really. Unless you wanna argue paying 5s max to get to my friend is so tedious and awful. There’s no problem with this VIP feature if it’s exclusive to PVE.

It shouldn’t work in WVW for obvious reasons. Anet isn’t dumb. They know that.

Benefit in the form of ‘easy’ not benefit in profit or whatever. Paying 5 silver you say.. No thats not why I say it’s huge. How about having to walk 15 min to get to your friend. Will not happen a lot on a level 80 char in this game but when leveling and my friend is in an area I did not complete yet it will happen.

Plus you can expect mounts in the future, likely in maps with less way-points and also then it’s even a huge thing for a lvl80 with all way-points.

Elthurien.8356:

lol @ all the chicken littles in this thread.

I looked at the pictures on reddit and I just thought, “That really doesn’t seem worth it to me”

If this game was buy to play I would expect all content available at launch until the next expansion with the exception of transfers, storage, character slots, boosters, which would be available in the MTX store, then I would buy the next expansion for additional content.

If this game were Free to play, I would expect all base launch content available at launch with everything else to be purchased from the MTX store, including new skins, vanity items, transfers, boosters, character slots, storage etc etc.

If this game were subscription model It would include launch content and all future content available at subscription price, this would mean makeover kits, transmutation crystals, character slots, bag space, bank space, skins the whole darn lot would be available for your subscription price. If an expansion ensued, it would be at the cost of an expansion, not a full game. I would not pay a subscription for anything less personally.

This game seems to be trying to blend the top two models together in an attempt to get more out their business model, and then offer gimmicky VIP’s for additional money. Whoever is running the show is going down a very slippery slope if the OP is legit.

I totally agree on your 3 options.. Well maybe boosters should also not go into a B2P model but I can live with transfers / extra char slots and name changer but that’s really it.

I did go for and had much hope for GW2 thinking it would go the B2P way as you describe it and much like they did mainly in GW1.

Sadly it now indeed looks more like the second (F2P) one with the difference that you do need to buy the game first.

darkace.8925:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Devata.6589:

Impossible to say until we see it in practice. I just point to the fact that buying gems is also “Opt in” while the focus on gem-sales is also destroying the game so just the fact that something is “Opt in” does not mean it’s not a problem.

But how is Gem sales destroying the game? I’m very interested in how you come to this claim.

Because too many resources are pumped into the gem shop and not nearly enough are allocated to introducing the kind of high quality content we all expected (and got) when we bought the game.

Not only that, it actually effects the game mechanics. Why can’t we go into the world to get collect out mini’s there. Doing dungeons to get them, killing mobs, doing quest..? Well because they want to sell gems so they make it so you can buy them with gems or with gold.. and gold you can grind or buy with gems. What you say is 100% true but it’s go’s much further then that.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Devata.6589:

The model GW1 had.. Expansion based income was that perfect ‘hybrid’ model.

In a way buying the expansion is then the same as paying a subscription but in stead of buying it for a month you pay for the content and added content ever year / year and a half. The game company can expect a pretty regular income and the player has no time above has head or game-play effected by it’s cash-shop because the design does not have to stimulate cash-sales.

The problem with expansions is that making them optional purchases splits the playerbase. An optional subscription or VIP program doesn’t.

I like expansions for multiplayer games like GW1 and Diablo, and hate them for massively multiplayer games like WoW or GW2. If an expansion comes out and adds a new zone that you can’t get to without paying but half your server population is in there playing the new content, wouldn’t that be worse than seeing someone running around with a VIP badge (or mini-pet or fancy hat or whatever they’re going to give them)?

I do hear that comment a lot but lets be fair. How many people who do play a game like that regularly will not have the last expansion. And even if it does it only splits them up as not being able to have specific items or going to a specific area / continent.

And to be honest, looking in many MMO’s splitting up the player-base is what they need. People tent to all be in a few places meaning the rest is empty. Splitting up is something GW2 could use to it’s benefit.

The overflow-system is imho a worse version of splitting your community then an expansion.

“wouldn’t that be worse than seeing someone running around with a VIP badge (or mini-pet or fancy hat or whatever they’re going to give them)? “
Well like I said it could even be positive but it’s not that one mini or that fancy hat thats the problem. Thats the way companies always try to defend cash-shops. The problem is how a focus on such elements (cash-shop elements, usually linked to vip memberships) effects the game mechanic in a negative way.

CETheLucid.3964:

Devata.6589:

I also don’t think it’s ‘just a small thing’. The ability to directly waypoint to a friend is huge!!!!

Not especially. Broken in WVW, absolutely. In PVE? Nah.

It’s a huge thing. I don’t say it’s a ‘broken’ thing. It just gives you a huge benefit VS not having it.

Keiel.7489:

Not going to jump to conclusions since I don’t know how it’ll be implemented. But I hope it isn’t a subscription based premium service, once of the things that kept me playing GW2 is the lack of a subscription, Though I suspect I’ve spent more money on the gems then I would have on a sub based game, I just like ot have a choice in what I buy or not buy, having a all inclusive sub still gives me a choice but I feel like I am forced to get the whole package just to get the few things I want.

If it’s based on how many gems you’ve bought from them directly (not from gold -> gem conversion) and acts as an expereince counter and levels your rank up until you get to a certain point, then I’d fully support this. Since it gives the players an incentive to buy gems directly from them boosting their income vice going to a third party and buying gold to convert to gems. Now the players have an actual decision to make (aside from the moral/economical ones).

Because there aren’t enough incentive in this game already? I think it would be extremely rude to do it like this. Like I said in a thread about the gifts to gem buyers once. It’s the “we love you more” idea. And thats fine if a game gets released F2P but not if a game gets released B2P. They should then have focused on expansions!

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

You know what would make me laugh?

If this turned out to be just a basic thing, you buy Gems once and become VIP then “rank up” as you spend more Gems and these benefits become progressive as you rank up rather than all at once. Like, basic VIPs get the bag/char/bank slot, but only top ones get the Waypoint Reduction and Resurrection Buff.

And everyone got worked up over “subscription service” for nothing, and would never apologize for it.

Assuming that it people would just get worked up over “subscription service”.
The way you say it is similar to how they gave away gifts to people who did buy gems. Something I also did see as very bad so it would not change a bid if it would be sub-based (what I honestly don’t think because of there anti sub complain) or the way you say it (more likely).

I also don’t think it’s ‘just a small thing’. The ability to directly waypoint to a friend is huge!!!!

Lycis.1843:

Devata.6589:

killcannon.2576:

Devata.6589:

killcannon.2576:

Latinkuro.9420:

killcannon.2576:

darkace.8925:

killcannon.2576:

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

How so? Where is your source citing the developers statement that the implementation of a subscription fee would mean a shift away from gem shop-driven design or fully-polished content rather than bite-sized filler Living Story content?

The sub itself is used as a mechanic to get people to login in other sub based MMO’s.

I assume you have played a sub based MMO? The payment models define the gameplay.

- this thing is clearly for the chinese market
- since gw2 doesn’t have sub it has time gating !
- Theoritically speaking, if paying this VIP thing removes the time gating I would gladly pay it otherwise NO thank you

Not sure if it’s for the Chinese market or not, I fully expect that GW2 will never see a full release in China. Even if it is, it will be so far removed from Western GW2 it may as well be an entirely different game.

Correct, time gating and large amounts of rng replace some of the draw of logging in that a sub based game creates from it’s payment model. Not saying sub based games don’t have those, they are just drastically reduced.

I see it as the first step towards a true hybrid model, and hopefully much less reliance on rng systems and the gem store than for those who choose not to subscribe to it, or purchase it.

The model GW1 had.. Expansion based income was that perfect ‘hybrid’ model.

In a way buying the expansion is then the same as paying a subscription but in stead of buying it for a month you pay for the content and added content ever year / year and a half. The game company can expect a pretty regular income and the player has no time above has head or game-play effected by it’s cash-shop because the design does not have to stimulate cash-sales.

I would have bought that, and I think that would have been a perfectly feasible way to monetize the game to an extent. They would still need time gating and a heavy reliance on rng to make people log in every day though, in order to populate the zones. Something GW1 didn’t have to worry as much about considering it’s mechanics and zone wide instancing.

Not more as a sub-based MMO. Maybe even less because while in a MMO the fact that you payed money might be a reason to log in today and tomorrow but there mus also be a reason to log in the day after you month ended. Of course GW2 would have a similar thing as they would need to keep people interested in buying the new expansion. So overall I think it’s similar to sub-based game.

Besides some RNG is not bad, it’s even needed. An ‘required’ endless grind is bad.

There´s no difference between RNG and endless grind. Except that endless grind is better than RNG if you not are lucky kitten. Endless grind can you get the item you desire for sure at the end. RNG you have to be very lucky to get the desired item.

Not really. Lets take 1 mini as example.

Grind way to get it. Grind gold, buy it from TP.

Farm way to get it. (multiple options depending on the mini but lets say drop from group of mobs). You farm that group of mobs to get it. Drop change is for example 1 in 1000. Yeah lucky person gets that one faster then unlucky person.

However someone is going to put it on the TP so the person who prefers to grind for gold can still get it not having to depend on pure luck.

Would be that for everything that is not account-bound.

Nageth.5648:

I’d like a more detailed explanation why buying expansions is good but an optional sub is bad. What if they gave away expansions for free supported by people who pay subs and buy currency like EVE? How is that model worse than paying for expansions?

You are asking multiple questions and comparing a optional sub to a full sub? Anyway I will take it part by part.

“I’d like a more detailed explanation why buying expansions is good but an optional sub is bad.”

An optional sub still means the income is mainly generated by a cash-shop or similar system. That means game-design is focused on you buying the items (that might also be part of the sub.)
Of course I can imagine an optional sub that works good. For example if they do not really give you anything in the game.. yeah maybe some tag but thats it. However in stead it would give you access to beta test for upcoming content.
But in the current case the problem there is that mostly the core focus will still be micro-transactions and a optional sub is pretty much just a way to get part of those micro-transactions elements automatically.

So why is that focus bad. Once again my links: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-focus-on-micro-transactions/first#post3324571 read here why.

“What if they gave away expansions for free supported by people who pay subs and buy currency like EVE? How is that model worse than paying for expansions?”
You mean the people who pay a subscription for x months get the expansion for free but the people who buy the game / expansion get the ‘game-time’ for free. Yeah that would also work just fine. But thats not the case here.

killcannon.2576:

Devata.6589:

killcannon.2576:

Latinkuro.9420:

killcannon.2576:

darkace.8925:

killcannon.2576:

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

How so? Where is your source citing the developers statement that the implementation of a subscription fee would mean a shift away from gem shop-driven design or fully-polished content rather than bite-sized filler Living Story content?

The sub itself is used as a mechanic to get people to login in other sub based MMO’s.

I assume you have played a sub based MMO? The payment models define the gameplay.

- this thing is clearly for the chinese market
- since gw2 doesn’t have sub it has time gating !
- Theoritically speaking, if paying this VIP thing removes the time gating I would gladly pay it otherwise NO thank you

Not sure if it’s for the Chinese market or not, I fully expect that GW2 will never see a full release in China. Even if it is, it will be so far removed from Western GW2 it may as well be an entirely different game.

Correct, time gating and large amounts of rng replace some of the draw of logging in that a sub based game creates from it’s payment model. Not saying sub based games don’t have those, they are just drastically reduced.

I see it as the first step towards a true hybrid model, and hopefully much less reliance on rng systems and the gem store than for those who choose not to subscribe to it, or purchase it.

The model GW1 had.. Expansion based income was that perfect ‘hybrid’ model.

In a way buying the expansion is then the same as paying a subscription but in stead of buying it for a month you pay for the content and added content ever year / year and a half. The game company can expect a pretty regular income and the player has no time above has head or game-play effected by it’s cash-shop because the design does not have to stimulate cash-sales.

I would have bought that, and I think that would have been a perfectly feasible way to monetize the game to an extent. They would still need time gating and a heavy reliance on rng to make people log in every day though, in order to populate the zones. Something GW1 didn’t have to worry as much about considering it’s mechanics and zone wide instancing.

Not more as a sub-based MMO. Maybe even less because while in a MMO the fact that you payed money might be a reason to log in today and tomorrow but there mus also be a reason to log in the day after you month ended. Of course GW2 would have a similar thing as they would need to keep people interested in buying the new expansion. So overall I think it’s similar to sub-based game.

Besides some RNG is not bad, it’s even needed. An ‘required’ endless grind is bad.

killcannon.2576:

Latinkuro.9420:

killcannon.2576:

darkace.8925:

killcannon.2576:

To the actual MMO crowd? It is a good thing.

How so? Where is your source citing the developers statement that the implementation of a subscription fee would mean a shift away from gem shop-driven design or fully-polished content rather than bite-sized filler Living Story content?

The sub itself is used as a mechanic to get people to login in other sub based MMO’s.

I assume you have played a sub based MMO? The payment models define the gameplay.

- this thing is clearly for the chinese market
- since gw2 doesn’t have sub it has time gating !
- Theoritically speaking, if paying this VIP thing removes the time gating I would gladly pay it otherwise NO thank you

Not sure if it’s for the Chinese market or not, I fully expect that GW2 will never see a full release in China. Even if it is, it will be so far removed from Western GW2 it may as well be an entirely different game.

Correct, time gating and large amounts of rng replace some of the draw of logging in that a sub based game creates from it’s payment model. Not saying sub based games don’t have those, they are just drastically reduced.

I see it as the first step towards a true hybrid model, and hopefully much less reliance on rng systems and the gem store than for those who choose not to subscribe to it, or purchase it.

The model GW1 had.. Expansion based income was that perfect ‘hybrid’ model.

In a way buying the expansion is then the same as paying a subscription but in stead of buying it for a month you pay for the content and added content ever year / year and a half. The game company can expect a pretty regular income and the player has no time above has head or game-play effected by it’s cash-shop because the design does not have to stimulate cash-sales.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Devata.6589:

Impossible to say until we see it in practice. I just point to the fact that buying gems is also “Opt in” while the focus on gem-sales is also destroying the game so just the fact that something is “Opt in” does not mean it’s not a problem.

But how is Gem sales destroying the game? I’m very interested in how you come to this claim.

Will be the third time I will be linking this link here giving the feeling I try to promote my own thread. What is not the case. I just wrote it so I would not have to keep repeating myself. (wanted to have that said before linking it again) So have a read here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-focus-on-micro-transactions/first#post3324571 There I explain it completely.

MithranArkanere.8957:

If it’s something that counts how many gems you’ve bought over time up to a cap, a “one time over time”, thing that you can just get in one go or over a few years, and if it gives no gameplay advantages, then maybe, just maybe, it may be fine.

If it would then be gone after a month again then maybe. But it it stays active forever then not because then people can unlock it with gems forever it being yet another push from gem-sales.

Well maybe if there will be an expansion and specific expansions give you a unlimited specific rank ot VIP membership. Maybe then maybe.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Devata.6589:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I doubt the VIP membership is subscription based. But even if it is, we all agreed to it when we first bought the game. Section 4-b of the User Agreement states as such:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/

Besides, what difference will it make to those who choose to be normal players? VIP membership is “Opt in”. Players still have access to 100% of the game. VIPers would only get discounts and minor conveniences at best.

Buying gems is also “Opt in” but the focus on it has also been destroying the game ever since release. So thats not really a big help.

Now sure how offering an optional service is “destroying the game”. How does this affect players who don’t buy VIP memberships?

Impossible to say until we see it in practice. I just point to the fact that buying gems is also “Opt in” while the focus on gem-sales is also destroying the game so just the fact that something is “Opt in” does not mean it’s not a problem.

chemiclord.3978:

Devata.6589:

Ah this reaction again. If people complain it’s not the game but the people.
Thats a way to ignore problems.

That’s not the point at all.

Saying, “What did the devs do to make people angry?” Is a question with no real answer… because the completely useless answer would be “everything.” Every decision they make is going to kitten off SOMEONE, and probably many someones… who will probably rush to official forums to vent their displeasure. Make a different choice down the road, and it’s an entirely different group of people raising their voices in dissatisfaction.

It’s no more constructive than “why are people always angry about everything?” Because the answer is equally useless. It’s one person is angry about [x]. Another is angry about [y]. Still another is angry about [z]. This guy is angry about [x] and [z]. This fellow doesn’t like [x] or [y], but is fine with [z]. Another one hates it all and is only here because he doesn’t have anything better to do with his time.

See what I’m trying to get at?

In this case, what we have here is a lot of people getting all worked up about something which we actually have distressingly little facts for (and that’s with the presumption this is real and will inevitably be implemented).

Yeah I see what you are getting at, I did see that before but still, like I said “Thats a way to ignore problems.”.
True, this thing is not a problem yet but the problems that I have with GW2 can be linked back to 3 main problems the biggest of them being a focus on micro-transactions as can be seen from my thread here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-focus-on-micro-transactions/first#post3324571 (fact that I made that proofs it’s something I see as a problem for a longer timer)

The the idea of this VIP model only makes that worse. So to then say “well people will always complain” and basically ignoring stuff like that is not the way to go. I do not complain just to complain it’s based on experiences in the game and yes nearly everything will lead to some negative reaction however ignoring everything with that statement also means you will ignore the real problems.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I doubt the VIP membership is subscription based. But even if it is, we all agreed to it when we first bought the game. Section 4-b of the User Agreement states as such:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/

Besides, what difference will it make to those who choose to be normal players? VIP membership is “Opt in”. Players still have access to 100% of the game. VIPers would only get discounts and minor conveniences at best.

Buying gems is also “Opt in” but the focus on it has also been destroying the game ever since release. So thats not really a big help.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

The poster of this has very reliably brought us datamined info for the last 9+ months. Almost 100% of what he has posted has been implemented into the game. The only thing I haven’t seen implemented that he has found, is precursor crafting, which we know is coming.

This is happening, and it shouldn’t be a big surprise to anyone. Revenue has been down for the last 3 quarters in a row. The game is sinking fast due to the failure that was Living Story and the absurd amount of grinding. NCSoft wants to start promoting wildstar in a big way, and that means it’s time to squeeze out every last penny they can from GW2 before moving on.

20 tiers of VIP membership though, lol that’s so sad it’s almost funny.

Oh well, EQN can’t come soon enough.

Well that revenue would go down (in the long run) with the approach they took is something people have been saying for close to a year now. Would they not have a focus on micro-transactions but on expansions for income the game would have a much longer life.

Then again maybe thats indeed not the goal of Ncsoft and will they like you say just try to squeeze out the last money and then move on.

If thats the case however I do wonder how ArenaNet looks at it. Don’t they see it? Do they see it but ignore it? I mean, they had this great expansion based model with GW1, they should see how the micro-transaction focus hurts this game.

chemiclord.3978:

Kevan.8912:

it’s interesting to notice how ppl are unsatisfied about the game, so that any news is a bad news, and start whining and flaming in the forum.
i think that it should make anet think more about what it’s going on here.
what they did wrong to make players so angry.
and try to go back to what things used to be, when anet still deserved some trust.

Honestly? Nothing really.

Go to ANY game’s official forums, and really take in the environment.

They are pretty much ALL like this. Official forums are where dissatisfied players go to complain. If it isn’t one group, it’s a different one. Even in your beloved GW1, you had dissatisfied barkers complaining about everything under the sun, and that game didn’t even have an official forums.

Honestly, maybe the question shouldn’t be, “what they did wrong to make players so angry” and more, “why do players always lose their kitten about everything?”

I mean, it’d be just as oversimplified a question with no real answer.

Ah this reaction again. If people complain it’s not the game but the people.
Thats a way to ignore problems.

Kevan.8912:

Tozen.9814:

I think everyone is a little too worried about this. ArenaNet has made some poor decisions in the past in my opinion, but they’ve never done anything to deliberately screw over the playerbase in an attempt to make more money. If they tick everyone off, they’ll lose profits, and it’s clear that the devs are pretty passionate gamers too.

I’m all for ANet continuing to think through options to generate more money to fund the development of the game because it means a win for both the company and the players. I would only be upset if they crossed the line and started penalizing players for profit, but as I’ve said, it will be their own grave if they choose to cross that line.

IMHO, there won’t be a subscription fee..would be too like a harakiri.
(and i’m quite the opposite of a fanboy)
well…i hope that news are false….nothing is so sure when depending on anet :o

it’s interesting to notice how ppl are unsatisfied about the game, so that any news is a bad news, and start whining and flaming in the forum.
i think that it should make anet think more about what it’s going on here.
what they did wrong to make players so angry.
and try to go back to what things used to be, when anet still deserved some trust.

What is going on.
Well very much this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-focus-on-micro-transactions/first#post3324571

And funny enough, the VIP thing would fit right in there showing there are not going into the correct direction but doing the opposite. We will see.

Ronah.2869:

Devata.6589:

Ronah.2869:

Sinope.5630:

So, first we have to solve The Mystery of The Lazy People , and after that we should start to think new Dynamic Events, activities, titles, sub professions, traits, skills, skins and all other Horizontal progression.

+1 for this statement. The Mystery of The Lazy People

I think it is the problem not only with GW2 but with all MMOs

Why many people download the F2P or B2P games and quit after a few weeks?
- they feel to far away from what they need to get
- they don’t feel it is worth the effort (they have other better things to do)
- they get bored by it (game play, mechanic, graphics, repetitiveness etc)
- they feel they need to pay to be the best and grinding takes too long

If something is to far out of reach then it’s not fun to work towards it. Especially if the way to get it is not by real play elements but by grinding. Thats something else as being lazy. It’s a game people want to enjoy. They don’t want an endless grind.

Really everything you say there has nothing to do with ‘lazy’ people. It has to do with fun. Or was that your point?

Yes, you have point in there. if something is fun to do people will do it for a while and later they will think about reward vs time and in here we can talk about the creeping “laziness”
People want it quick and with minimum to none effort or they will say it is not fun or it is too grindy or it is unfair

They will say it is to grindy or maybe it is to grindy? Lets be fair, a lot of content is fairly grindy in GW2. While I can give many examples I usually use the mini example. Lets say I want a specific mini what is then now the way to get it? (true for most of them) Buy gems, convert to gold then buy it or grind for gold and then buy it. Why? Because most mini’s are ‘general’ drops, in this case from mini packs. Another way may be to grind the achievements from the current LS but if I miss one LS once again you need to buy it with money so I need to grind for money.

How should mini’s be implemented to make them a fun game-elemt? They should ALL or at lease 99% of them be in the open world in a farmable way, meaning I can set a mini as goal. Maybe that means killing a specific type of mobs in a specific area 1000 times so it drops, maybe it means defeating a boss (See Tequatl mini), maybe it means doing a dungeon or a quest. In that way every mini has it’s own mechanism that it requires and you can work for. That would not make it easier (what ‘lazy people’ may want) but it would make it more a game-elent en make it more fun.

Now it’s a grind for gold to buy it and yes of course, if you then can only get it by farming gold people will look for the easiest way to get the gold and then get bored very easy.

However when you make them acquirable (not easier) in a specific way (farmable) then you are playing the game to get it and using gold is not the most optimal way to get them anymore.

So I disagree people just say it’s to much of a grind, in many ways it is to much of a grind.. a grind for gold to then buy what you need because gold is so important in this game. That is the result of having many drops not in specific places but as general drops.

Big questions is if Anet is willing to change that. The reason it is like this is imho because if gold is worth so much buying gems is more interesting. For more about that I would suggest reading my thread here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-focus-on-micro-transactions/first#post3324571

Ronah.2869:

Sinope.5630:

So, first we have to solve The Mystery of The Lazy People , and after that we should start to think new Dynamic Events, activities, titles, sub professions, traits, skills, skins and all other Horizontal progression.

+1 for this statement. The Mystery of The Lazy People

I think it is the problem not only with GW2 but with all MMOs

Why many people download the F2P or B2P games and quit after a few weeks?
- they feel to far away from what they need to get
- they don’t feel it is worth the effort (they have other better things to do)
- they get bored by it (game play, mechanic, graphics, repetitiveness etc)
- they feel they need to pay to be the best and grinding takes too long

If something is to far out of reach then it’s not fun to work towards it. Especially if the way to get it is not by real play elements but by grinding. Thats something else as being lazy. It’s a game people want to enjoy. They don’t want an endless grind.

Really everything you say there has nothing to do with ‘lazy’ people. It has to do with fun. Or was that your point?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Devata.6589:

2. Yeah that would also be a nice addition but still it’s a trick you learn. Multiple tricks but tricks. If you make it more random then it’s never a trick or a list of tricks you had to learn to master it. It will stay a challenge that require skills. Of course you could mix the two but I think the “gambits” would not be able to substitute what randomness will add.

Skill is knowing the tricks and when to apply them. It’s knowing when you see X, then Y is your response unless it’s not applicable, so Z instead. Skill isn’t “oh, you can beat this random combination lock of features, you are the best” . . . otherwise you wouldn’t see the same names near championships time and time again in games where chance takes a part.

“It’s knowing when you see X, then Y is your response unless it’s not applicable, so Z instead.” Thats exactly what you get with randomness, not with the “gambits”. With the “gambits” you learn to do it once, then you learn to do it again as a char, then you learn to do it without a skill-bar and so on. But reacting on behaviors ‘knowing when you see X, then Y is your response unless it’s not applicable, so Z instead’ is what you get with the randomness.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Devata.6589:

Let me say something about this. To make a game more skill-based requires 2 or 3 elements.

1 Very good AI. Don’t make a boss stronger by giving him more HP or damage or some by giving him some ‘tricks’ but by making him smarter, so a better AI. This however is also the hardest solution.

I think it’s also the one which is more likely to have errors crop up or have the AI ‘break down’ . . . keeping this in mind for future releases down the line is the best course right now because they have more time to be tested than something being patched to live on existing things.

2 Add randomness to it (so also randomness in the AI). As en example I will not take AI but a JP. Once you master a JP it becomes a trick but what if you have to jump on moving stones however the movement, speed and so on are completely random. Then it becomes really a skill thing especially to do it multiple times. Only thing to be careful of then is that the randomness does not make it impossible in some situations meaning it becomes more luck then skill. But when done correctly also in AI then randomness is very important for kills, else stuff becomes a trick you need to learn.

I’d say with regards to jumping puzzles, the idea someone mentioned of adding “gambits” of sorts . . . “now do the jumping puzzle as a charr”, “your abilities are now locked”, sort of thing.

3 Roles.. If you want to also take the team-work skill into the overall picture that is. Then very specific roles that need each other to survive and reach the goal is a must. Not needed when you do not take the team-work skill into consideration.

There was that in Urgoz’s Warren where there was one room you absolutely needed Necrotic Traversal or similar skills to proceed through. I wasn’t very fond of the idea then and still am not now . . .

1. Like I said, it’s a good but also the hardest solution.

2. Yeah that would also be a nice addition but still it’s a trick you learn. Multiple tricks but tricks. If you make it more random then it’s never a trick or a list of tricks you had to learn to master it. It will stay a challenge that require skills. Of course you could mix the two but I think the “gambits” would not be able to substitute what randomness will add.

3. While I would not mind that so much there are multiple ways to tackle that. Maybe a necro and a engineer are 2 professions but have the same ‘role’. You would still be needing that role but not that one profession, it can be a necro or an engineer.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Gaebriel.3754:

This got me thinking more on the following, some of which I already briefly mentioned in an earlier post:

(Snipped for brevity)

Interesting, we’re looking at solo instance? Also the idea of a journal to pick up lore or such was floated around during pre-beta I think but not included . . . I figured due to time constraints.

Might make a neat mechanic to include for people to just get out and see the world all over again as more than potential farming places.

Well be aware that this is an MMO. Instances for dungeons and raids are fine but I would not put in to much solo stuff. I for one never do the personal story because of that.. When I play an MMO I want that big open world, not a single-player or co-op player game. Thats one of the main reasons GW1 was not my game. It’s already to bad that the world is not one open world but all instanced maps (still hope that can change in a expansion) but adding in more solo instances like the PS would make GW2 less of an MMO.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

VOLKON.1290:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

VOLKON.1290:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

There is no way in measuring skill without taking reaction time into consideration.

Ever watch a chess match?

You seem to never watched one or you would know you don’t have unlimited time to decide what you do next. You know why Computer started beating the best chess Players?
Because there is for each combinations on the deck a best way to answer, to be a semi profi you Need to know the best answer to the first 10 moves if you are a profi chess Player you Need to know the best answer for moves for about the 32 moves is it skill? Yeah it is the skill to remember the right moves but if a chessplayer like a gamer has the posibility to look up things it’s meaning less since he could just take a Manual and win ( This is how the Computer wins the chess match against the profi Players:))

You said there was no way to measure skill without taking reaction time into account. There’s no twitch in chess.

Guys? Please chill over the analogy dissections. It’s not getting anywhere, and while chess can always be pointed to as a “pure skill-based game”, it’s very likely not in tune with what everyone here wants to be playing.

Let’s just put one thing out here which can be agreed upon – I’m pretty sure nobody wants “skill gates” to be of a type where their hardware determines their success instead of their skill. And I’m definitely sure none of us want to have to play “I Want To Be The Ghostly Hero” to get some horizontal progression options for skills/abilities.

(Cosmetic rewards are okay.)

Let me say something about this. To make a game more skill-based requires 2 or 3 elements.

1 Very good AI. Don’t make a boss stronger by giving him more HP or damage or some by giving him some ‘tricks’ but by making him smarter, so a better AI. This however is also the hardest solution.

2 Add randomness to it (so also randomness in the AI). As an example I will not take AI but a JP. Once you master a JP it becomes a trick but what if you have to jump on moving stones however the movement, speed and so on are completely random. Then it becomes really a skill thing especially to do it multiple times. Only thing to be careful of then is that the randomness does not make it impossible in some situations meaning it becomes more luck then skill. But when done correctly also in AI then randomness is very important for requiring skills, else stuff becomes a trick you need to learn.

3 Roles.. If you want to also take the team-work skill into the overall picture that is. Then very specific roles that need each other to survive and reach the goal is a must. Not needed when you do not take the team-work skill into consideration.

The Lost Witch.7601:

Devata.6589:

You don’t really have to prepare. It just comes along the way (like in W:ET)

Have a look at the video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mTl47fsf0E&t=4m30s in the left bottom you see his ‘levels’ 0-4. Two are general based and can every class get, one is class based. You can do something similar in WvW. You play kitten a class or maybe your profession is a class. For example, only a warrior can unlock the treb stuff, a ranger the arrow-card or so meting like that. Then professions would also get a better role.

Anyway, the think is, leveling up is very easy and it’s really not something you need to prepare for, it just happens along the way. (at 4:55 you see him level up one of the general lines)

Hmm, I kind of liked the quick in-game progression of DotA 3.7 (Don’t know exactly how the later iterations like LoL and DotA 2 work, but I guess in a similar fashion)

You would work towards ‘critical’ level (usually at about 6 out of the max of 10 levels, at which you unlocked your ‘ultimate’ skill) and then prepare for a massive siege. The progression was partly done by leveling but also by getting buffs and items.

The difference was that it didn’t really feel like ‘my character’ in the next game though. It was a brand new hero that I’d start out with every game. Oh and the progression was much more impactful of course.

I don’t know if it’d work so well within GW2. But perhaps you can convince me?

A few questions to start with:

• Would you suggest this as a replacement of the WxP system in WvW, or also as a method of progression in PvE? And if so… what would we be progressing? Our stats, or something else?

• How do we go about changing builds, would this reset the progression aswell? So that we can pick a new specialisation to complement our build?

• Would it benefit all characters, or just the one you’ve progressed with? (This may lead to alt-players being at a disadvantage perhaps)

More to come if I can find the time, and in response to your answers.

- Mainly to replace WxP. It could also work in some PvE situations like Fractals but not so much in the overall open world I think. However here I was specifically talking about WvW.
You could unlock specific skills based on your profession (one complain you hear a lot is that people miss roles i GW2. This would help a little with that). The unlocks you can now get in WvW can be used. So you then unlock that but only a warrior can unlock the treb options / unlocks, a ranger can unlock arrow cards and so on. In addition you would also be able to unlock maybe skills or other abilities. For example the ability to see a stealth person or to use an enemy portal. Options are endless really.
After they have retested you might want to go in with another profession. It helps to make content more repayable and make the game more alt-friendly without a big never ending grind to unlock stuff. (Similar things can also work in fractals or even boos fights but I will keep the examples to WvW)

- It’s not so much a build. It’s an unlock (of skills or abilities) and there can be general unlocks and profession / role (you might even be able to pick a specific role in WvW) based unlkittens. You can always go on another profession (or role) to unlock those. So it’s not a build.

- The general unlocks work on all chars (are account-bound) while the profession based should only work on one char or at least all the chars you have with the same role. But you can not unlock a specific lets say thief ability (having +5 supply as an example) and then go in with your warrior and then have that thief unlock. On the warrior you can then only get your treb unlocks because they are for the warriors.

But lets say one of the general unlocks is a permanent speedboost then all your chars will have then until the reset.

To point again to Wolfenstein. In that video you did see 3 bars you could level in. The most left one is based on your role. When moving to another role there will be a bar specific for that role. The other two are general and will be active in whatever role you play without having to unlock them again when you switch roles.

For general PvE I stay on my previous statements that collecting things like mini’s, leveling crafts, farming and so on (see my big 2 comment post about that https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Character-Progression-Horizontal/page/46#post3468933) should be more a game element to get more horizontal progression in the PvE world.

These temporary unlocks (what is something else as temporary content) really work well in separate ‘instanced’ repayable combat mechanisms like WvW.

The Lost Witch.7601:

Devata.6589:

The Lost Witch.7601:

cesmode.4257:

I disagree that the WXP system is verticle. You become stronger but not in the sense that it makes it verticle. In a straight up fight between you and me using only the class abilities at our disposal, pure skill (and, yes gear) will determine who wins. Having a fully maxed out Siege Mastery or Guard Mastery(I cannot remember the name) will make little difference.

The difference between ascended and exotic gear is also little. But it is there. And the thing is… it is not always a straight up fight between you and me.

Let’s put it like this:

You have siege mastery and guard mastery and are therefor better at using siege and fighting guards.

I only have guard mastery. This makes me less in potential in the grand scheme of battle. (I may still be a better player, though unlikely , but not having siege mastery makes it so that you have more potential than I have)

What I propose is a system in which you’d have to choose between guard mastery and siege mastery. You just cannot have both. You may have unlocked more different options, and through earning ‘respec’ points, you may be more flexible. But you would not simply be stronger. Sure, the ability to respec in more different directions can be useful in niche situations, but I would not ever feel like I am worse than you. Since I have my own niche to shine in. (Slaying guards… ok, not so shiny a niche )

Ofcourse, in this regard, you may be able to spec into more than one such lines. But there should be a limit, and it should be reachable for casual players.

How does that change anything? Yeah you can unlock only one thing but how about somebody who has not unlocked it yet. Then it also says nothing about the skills.

I think the solution is to make it all more in reach. Maybe make it so then you can earn all points even in 4 hours of playing but they reset after one week.

Did you ever play Weinstein ET? There they have a system like that. You can ‘level up’. And it’s pretty easy leveling up. Just a few hours and your fully leveling up with your class but you will lose your points after some time.

Then you still have a benefit from playing but everything is easily in reach for everybody it stays interesting and you never have the problem that new players get behind to much.

We already have the normal char level as level. No need to add other types of level on top of that.

I am afraid that I haven’t played many different games.

My idea would change the game in that it wouldn’t take literally forever to max out your character.

Now don’t get me wrong: I wouldn’t want to see this idea happen in PvE. But if it comes, then I would much rather see it in a specialisation version than the current WxP version.

Unlocking shouldn’t take ages either. I would be fine with it taking about… say 30 hours to get all of the unlocks. And about 10 to get all of the points. The progression would lay more in specialising than in getting better. And unlocking more things to specialize could be done on a whim. (Oh let’s go for this! And then spend an hour unlocking it through… I don’t know what yet?)

As for the weekly reset… I think it may become tiresome to ‘prepare’ for the week? And it could be a bit weird to lose your progression? (But… didn’t I learn how to shoot a cannon properly last week?)

But I am all for ‘in reach’, because that is what is putting me off so much about the WxP system aswell as ascended gear… it is out of reach.

You don’t really have to prepare. It just comes along the way (like in W:ET)

Have a look at the video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mTl47fsf0E&t=4m30s in the left bottom you see his ‘levels’ 0-4. Two are general based and can every class get, one is class based. You can do something similar in WvW. You play kitten a class or maybe your profession is a class. For example, only a warrior can unlock the treb stuff, a ranger the arrow-card or so meting like that. Then professions would also get a better role.

Anyway, the think is, leveling up is very easy and it’s really not something you need to prepare for, it just happens along the way. (at 4:55 you see him level up one of the general lines)

The Lost Witch.7601:

cesmode.4257:

I disagree that the WXP system is verticle. You become stronger but not in the sense that it makes it verticle. In a straight up fight between you and me using only the class abilities at our disposal, pure skill (and, yes gear) will determine who wins. Having a fully maxed out Siege Mastery or Guard Mastery(I cannot remember the name) will make little difference.

The difference between ascended and exotic gear is also little. But it is there. And the thing is… it is not always a straight up fight between you and me.

Let’s put it like this:

You have siege mastery and guard mastery and are therefor better at using siege and fighting guards.

I only have guard mastery. This makes me less in potential in the grand scheme of battle. (I may still be a better player, though unlikely , but not having siege mastery makes it so that you have more potential than I have)

What I propose is a system in which you’d have to choose between guard mastery and siege mastery. You just cannot have both. You may have unlocked more different options, and through earning ‘respec’ points, you may be more flexible. But you would not simply be stronger. Sure, the ability to respec in more different directions can be useful in niche situations, but I would not ever feel like I am worse than you. Since I have my own niche to shine in. (Slaying guards… ok, not so shiny a niche )

Ofcourse, in this regard, you may be able to spec into more than one such lines. But there should be a limit, and it should be reachable for casual players.

How does that change anything? Yeah you can unlock only one thing but how about somebody who has not unlocked it yet. Then it also says nothing about the skills.

I think the solution is to make it all more in reach. Maybe make it so then you can earn all points even in 4 hours of playing but they reset after one week.

Did you ever play Wolfenstein ET? There they have a system like that. You can ‘level up’. And it’s pretty easy leveling up. Just a few hours and your fully leveling up with your class but you will lose your points after some time.

Then you still have a benefit from playing but everything is easily in reach for everybody it stays interesting and you never have the problem that new players get behind to much.

We already have the normal char level as level. No need to add other types of level on top of that.

Deified.7520:

ColinJohanson.2394:

A lot of the ideas boiled down into variations of one of these two options, and really both have a lot of cool concepts and ideas. Can folks think of anything else that’s a bit more outside the box for something bigger?

Let me say things we do not need more of for progression

1. Gathering/Crafting. There is so much of that already. Ascended and legendaries are a huge portion of the endgame and are mostly gathering/crafting.

2. Achievements. We have enough rewards centered around Achievements. Achievements are good, but not immersive. So having them as a main reward system (in my opinion) is bad.

Anyways, heres another idea I have for it.

Tie it to the living story through perm questlines. Same idea as before of an NPC with a blue outline who starts it, but it deals with the living story. An example for kessex hills is that say next patch you put in a NPC thats part of the lionguard or something and is charged with cleaning up the mess the toxic alliance left. He could put you on a 4-5 step mission that involves search and rescue of npcs, finding hijacked supplies for the refugees, building defenses against the toxic creatures, putting in air cleaners around the map, then finally a mini dungeon where you kill some kind of toxic boss.

You tie all that to the living story and it offers some perm content you can do with the LS.

The problem is that most of the things you list here are indeed in the game but more as a grind then as a game-element. Let me explain.

1 Gathering/Crafting.
Yeah there is crafting many of the stuff you need you can not really work towards. Then I am not referring to the gathering stuff but the items you need that generally drop. Because they generally drop you can’t really farm them. It’s not like, ‘I need x then I can farm mob Y in that area for a few minutes’. So how do most people level there crafts. They find a way to grind gold (like the queens-dale train) and then buy what they need.

That means that it’s not in the game as a real game-element (I need x, lets go into the world to get x) but it’s just in as a grind or you buy it with real money.
Plus we really miss crafts where you can just make some fun items.

2 Achivements
Well there you basically say it already. It’s now also just a list to keep you busy and the LS achievements are of the worse kind because they really become a grind. Every 2 weeks a new list of achievements you need to do if you want to keep up. (I stopped doing that some time ago). It really takes the fun out of achievements plus it makes achievements almost the main goal while it should be something nice you get along the way or you can work towards whenever you want. So yes it a from of progression but once again mainly a grind. In GW2 I really came to dislike achievements while I have always loved them… I did achievements even before games had implemented them. Always setting my own achievements. So it shows how a game-element can be taken away if it becomes a grind.

About your solution. I sort of agree. What you are suggesting are 2 elements. Make the LS just a story (no achievements or rewards) and then leave behind permanent content. I totally agree.

You are also saying add in traditional quest (because that’s what your explanation describes). I also agree with that.

The only problem is that if you do that only with the LS it gets like 1 quest every 2 weeks and so people we be done with it very easy. Better is to add that sort of content in a big expansion. And then also indeed make the LS just a story that leaves behind permanent content like quest. Achievements or rewards can then be linked to that content while the story itself has no achievements or rewards linked to it. With that you can then work your way up to the next expansion.

That would work but first you need to make the needed additions over because adding that type on content only one by one means people are to fast done with it.

ColinJohanson.2394:

DiogoSilva.7089:

ColinJohanson.2394:

• Adding new content to the existing maps (or re-using existing moments) that serves the purpose of being a bit like skill challenges, content on demand that allows you to overcome challenges to allow you unlock various abilities/masteries.

A bit like skill challenges, but while skill challenges are just “boss” fights, it would be cool if this kind of content generated entire chains of events with some more gameplay diversity and an interesting scenario behind them.

A lot of the ideas boiled down into variations of one of these two options, and really both have a lot of cool concepts and ideas. Can folks think of anything else that’s a bit more outside the box for something bigger?

Remember GW1’s Hall of Monuments, where the winning team got a game-wide chat message announcing their victory? Using that as an inspiration, but thinking of something completely different (without involving pvp), what about some content being unlocked at the end of epic dynamic events, and rewarding access to unique content?

But hey, this already happens with some mini-dungeons, don’t they? Maybe this concept could be expanded upon.

CONCEPT FOR OPEN-WORLD MINI-SCENARIOS

The teams that would complete specific and long challenging dynamic event chains would unlock access to unique mini-dungeons, with some interesting stories, scenarios and challenges behind them, all leading to a mini-story conclusion and a flavored reward to those players. The reward could be anything, including a new subclass tier, or mastery, or something.

Unlocking an open-world mini-dungeon would be map-wide, a message would automatically be generated in the chat warning players about it, and everyone could join and get the “normal reward”, but only the teams that have participated in the specific events that lead to them (and have met a specific condition) would be allowed to get the unique “mastery” reward, and a ray of light would shine upon them for all other players to see. Another message would automatically be generated in the map, this time announcing the players who have advanced through a mastery, and all other players in the map would be like “wow, how did you get your name in the chat? What did you do to get that mastery? I want to get it too!”

The dynamic events leading to those unique open-world scenarios (let’s call it that) would work as discussed: they would either start automatically from time to time, or start on demand if the player has met a specific condition. However, even though they could be started on demand, they wouldn’t be easy, with a high chance of failure for the unprepared, making them more special.

And finally, for a player to meet the specific condition to start those events on demand (and thus to get the “unique” reward from the end of the mini-scenario later unlocked) could be received from the also-discussed Orders quest system, or something.

There you have it, I proposed a new idea (mini-dungeons/ scenarios unlocked from events) and fused this concept with the two other ideas the community has been discussing (unique on-demand events and orders quests).

Very cool, something we’ve discussed a lot internally as well in regards to some of our concepts of what future maps would look like

But don’t we have something similar like that already in Orr? And there it does not work very well.
Really, like I said in my previous post, the horizontal progress that is missing in GW2 is mainly collecting things (farming them in stead of a gold-grind) and working your way up to thinks in general. It’s not really hard to really work your way up to anything (mini collections, dye collection, crafts) without it being just a general grind for gold and then buying what you need. But it’s not so much in the game as a game element.

Just like map-completion feels more like skipping of a list of vista’s, poi’s, hearts in stead of it feeling like a journey (like more traditional quest do). For more details see my previous multi-post. However most suggest I now see are more in the line of what there already is but just a little more. That will not help the people who think there is a overall lag of horizontal progression.

p2

Traditional quest also can reward specific items and send you all over the world. So they send you on an explorer journey. Now you run on the map looking for heards and poi’s and vista’s but it does not feel like a journey it feels like just crossing of a list of locations. Because of that exploration is also less of a journey in this game while it could also be seen as part of horizontal progression.

These thinks, with the exception of dyes, where forms of horizontal progressions that could keep me busy for years in other MMO’s but they simply don’t exist in GW2 as a real game-play element, and for as far as they exist they are behind a grind for gold or gem-store but that means they don’t really exist as a fun game-element. And they can all be seen as a form of horizontal progression that can keep people busy for months maybe years.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Thanks folks lots of really great ideas, concepts and discussion here!
~

P1

The conversation is way to much focus on one element. Expanding the profession. That keeps people busy for a little while but overall does not really add much. Making it part of the personal story is really bad. Then you are forced to do the personal story, something I personally don’t like because when I play an MMO I want to play a multi-player game not some single-player game inside it. Thats why the personal story never got my attention.

There is so much to gain if it comes to horizontal progression, why such a focus on that one element. I will tell you what I did in other MMO’s (said that before) that I consider horizontal progression and that can keep people bus for a long time.

Mini collection. That whole element is not available in GW2 in the way that it’s really a play element. Lets face it, most of the mini’s are behind a gold-grind (TP) or the gem-store (gold or money). Other where behind temporary LS content (and so not TB). But there are almost none you can really go for, works toward. While that should be able with all mini’s.
To make this really part of the game and part of horizontal progression take all those mini’s that have been released during GW2’s existence and throw them really into the game (open world) in a similar way as one mini now also drops from Tequatl (all mini’s should be available in such a way).
Some mini’s can drop from a world boss, others can drop in a dungeons, other can drop from a group of mobs, some can drop from a quest (then you need to have the more traditional quest).
This is a form of horizontal progression that can keep people busy for months if not years.

Now that whole element is gone because most people already know there are many mini’s they can’t get anymore (so then the idea of collecting them all stops) and the ones they still can get are behind a very boring gold-grind. Even the fact that they add a mini in almost every LS is not helping while they are then available in the game (temporary). That means that if you want to collect them you need to be going for that in every LS. I know thats the design philosophy behind it and so get also people to buy them (or gold) from the gem-store but the fact is that is takes the joy out of collecting them. So they need to be farmable (get them form a specific place you can work toward.. always) in stead of require a general (gold) grind to then buy them.

You can do exactly the same with mounts.

Then there could be fun crafts (Crafts like engineering, just making fun items or maybe even gardening and so on). Crafts where you can create a fun (maybe not super useful but fun) item almost every level so it’s not like now grinding up to lvl 500 to then being able to create what you want but you have fun all the way up.
You should also need to go all over the world to collect recipe’s (much in a similar way as the mini’s). And allow people to really farm the stuff they need. Recipe’s but also the other materials. Now also crafting requires mainly grinding gold to buy the required items / materials because you can’t really farm many of the materials itself. And every time people find a way to farm items they need it get patched out. We really need to have that game element in this game. (Like a guild-member once said after yet another possibility to farm something was patched out. “I really want to play this game, but ArenaNet does not let me”)

That farming and working your way up is horizontal progression in a fun way, it’s going for your goal. Grinding for gold while I understand why you want players to do it that way (makes gold more valuable and so gems more interesting to buy) takes away a big part of the game mechanic and horizontal progression.

Make dyes account bound so they also become something you can really work towards (collecting all colors on all chars makes that impossible) and then don’t work with once again a general drop and a general change to get a specific color. That makes also collecting dyes once again a gold-grind (or buy gems to convert to gold) to then buy the color you need / want. But let for example one boss drop one specific color and let a dungeon drop a specific color and so on.

Pets for ranger. Make that system way more dynamic (no predefined list of pets) so people can go and find rare pets the developers did not even think of. It’s a game element on itself in many mmo’s and once again horizontal progression.

Part 3
-Have the option for people to show server-time and local-time together. (useful for guild because people usually prefer to see local time but for guild-events server-time is more useful)

- Add a right to allow a member to activate a mission, (not only in the guild-pannel but also who can activate at the spot once activated in the guild-pannel)

-Unlocking upgrades / building up a guild should also be possible for newer smaller guilds.

-Player Notes (I guess it’s the same as Notes in Roster on each Member)?

- Accept credit only goes to specific roles (that can be selected in the rights panel). [Implemented 07-2014 but rank could me more specificc]

- Being able to set a welcome mail for new members + the option to add items from a stack saved somewhere.

- Option to not allowed members to join a guild if they are not on the guilds home-server (Still relevant because of WvW and maybe for RP reasons)

- Stacking in the guild bank should be possible wihtout first moving it to your own inventory.

- Members should be unable to ‘clean’ bank log by taking one copper, putting it back, taking it again and so on and so on.

(If people come with new suggestions I will try to add them here)

Part 2:
-Uninvite in stead of Kick when people have not yet joined
-Guild control area options like in GW1
-Guild pays for repairs / waypoints and places to put money for these goals
-Notification of achievements of individual players (eg. XYZ has gained 100% world map completion!)
-Look at giving guilds rewards for doing stuff together, eg. completing a dungeon, or an event etc.
-Guild PvP or WvW rewards or achievements that could be noted or listed on the guild panel, or encouraged
-Make guild-banners that work like the warrior banner. So you can pick them up, place them and they will buff everybody in the area. In WvW they can be captured by the enemy and using permissions to carry the guild-banner
-Possibility for a transparent emblem background (think that is already possible)
-a simple forum in-game private to only your guild or a message board that uses sticky notes or is essentially a daily message with more room are very viable. (roles on ‘forum’ permission based)
-Guild members have got to show up on the map. (like party members but then orange)
-Option Guild Deep Cave Withdraw and Deposit
-If a member leaves also show the name of the character that left apart from the account-name.
-An option to automatically let people get to one (or more) higher ranks when they reach a certain time of representing, or influence or time member. Of course that should be variable for the guild-leaders to choose. (so being able to set those rules or a small script)
-Show how much they are online (like in actual time and in percentage / visual line overtime graph)
-Show how much they represent (again in actual time and in percentage / visual line overtime graph)
-Show when they represent for the last time. (This is something else then last time online)
-Show how much influence they have earned for the guild (also then can be shown over time with a nice graph.)
-Show when members earned influence for the last time.
-Show a full and detailed history going back to the beginning of the guild or (if the information is not being saved at this moment) to the moment this option would be implemented.
-Show who buys and uses guild-armor and other guild related stuff (how much, when and so on) So now that would also mean showing who joined guild-missions
-An options to see account-names in the guild-chat (and party chat).
-guild-message of the day should have a date/time option you can fill (not required) when the message will automatically be deleted. (this is when there is also an options for a bigger message besides the message of the day like suggested before)
-Split permission about money and bank tab
-Stack items in guild-bank directly out of your bags
-Option to select / filter members by criteria like ‘all members who have not been online since x.’ and do something with that selection like changing the rank or sending a message/ mail or adding a note (if the option to make notes for users would become available)
-Option that guild-leaders can send a mail to the real e-mail from members. But only if members allow that and guild-leaders don’t see the real e-mail addresses. (this to contact members that have not been online or whatever)
-Show date and time spent representing
-Add confirmation when changing important things.
-Automated sorting option in guild-bank
-Option to not show the not representing / or not count the not representing members.
-More guild representation in WvW, not only showing the banner for a claimed keep
-Guild-unlocks not per server
-Be able to see guild-chat when not representing as an option that leaders can set on or off
-Make it possible to export a list of all members including all there chars (only that they use to represent the guild, for private / guild-site reasons) and information like current level, rank, profession, race and crafts to a CSV or XML file.
-Next in line leader / officer to become leader if a leader leaves a guild
-Show join date of members
-Show total Influence earned for Guild by member
-Show total time online and representing
-Transfer influence from one guild to another guild
-export mails (I guess you can say that might be guild-related in a way)
-progression-line per member showing, time online, time represented, influence gained over time.
-Have the option for people to show server-time and local-time together.
-Special option in the ranks to activate a guild-mission @ location.
- An API option to get all the claimed camps, towers, keeps, castles by a given guild-name.
- See who accepted / declined credits for another guilds mission.
- Open world guild-houses / guild-castles that guilds can design and build themselves in WvW-like maps with ground around it. On that ground people can then build there own houses and people can fight and defend land.
- See guild-chat from multiple guilds. (See FF14?)
- Option for guild-members to share / donate influence to multiple (selected) guilds.

I created this topic because the suggestions topic has gone. It’s based on this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/suggestions/Guild-System-Improvements/page/4#post2983198

There I made a list of all guild system / tools that are missing and / or people suggested on the many threads about this subject. (So it are not all my idea’s there are even a few I disagree on)

This is just to help ArenaNet to get one list, I did try to make the explanation smaller so for details I would suggest reading the original thread and linked threads.

-Also getting XP for not representing members. There are multiple options given how this would be done.
-More options for ranks. Like splitting admin rights, kick / invite, promote / demote and so on
-More options to sort / organize the guild-roster (Like sort by representing)
-Chat-channels based on ranks. So a channel for only leaders or only officers or only leaders and officers and so on
-MotD should be editable in stead of making one whole message. [FIXED! September 2013]
-Have an option to be able to control to show the message of the day when user log on/off or the message changes.
-Guild Description / info. MotD is a short message about something that will happen soon but there also needs to be place for more information.
-The possibility to make notes. Public (notes everybody can make) en rank-based. (also per member, so add a note behind member x and then allow other officers (or everybody) to read it)
-Show in the chat when a player comes online and logs off.
-Last time online should be visible [Implemented: 15-04-2014 but not yet in both lists]
-Influence tracker
-More and better ways to show the guild-emblem like on your back
-More options for in sPvP like influence increase for PvP or guild Finishing move and so on
-Guild hall
-Mailing to multiple people (in the guild) at once. Rank based or just multiple names at ones or multiple ranks at once.
-Guild calendar to help organize guild-events
-Guild tax. There are also multiple options given how this then should be done. The big difference is some say members should have the option other says guilds should be able to force it.
-Guild Repair Contract an option in “economy” for the guild to pay X amount (determined by Guild leader , customizable per rank ) for guild repairs.
-Guild Bank Change allow for guild leaders to customize the Stacks withdrawn per rank for the guild bank option.
-Confirmation before promoting member
-Guild PvP Server
-Option for alliances
-Option for bigger guilds
-Custom guild emblems that can be uploaded.
-Guild Server Transfer option. Being able to move the whole guild including influence consumables and so on. Obsolete after 2th feature pack.
-Option for no emblem (Pretty sure you don’t have to use an emblem if you don’t want? But it was suggested)
-Confirmation for guild-kick and only available in the guild-roster [Party implemented 07-2014]
-Guild Bound Items
-Guild Badges of Honor for guild-members when doing guild-related things
-Option to make bigger groups with guild-members (permission based)
-Guild vs Guild
-Guild Missions [Implemented]
-Guild Daily/Monthly events
-Possibility to put guild-emblem on normal armor
-Guild Banner/Capes like in gw1.
-More guild permissions for the bank like max amount of money they can take.
-Rename Feature for guild-names
-Show information about all the (representing) chars from a guild-member
-The ability to search for guilds in game. Including linking to them (like way points) + information.
-Guilds must be able to enable or disable the option to represent multiple guilds.
-Make it possible to demote or kick another guild-leader. Like an extra option permission I think.
-More then 10 ranks
-Bigger message of the day [Implemented]
-Guild Advertising in the Forums Improvements (Recruitment boards)
-Guild Funded Repairs
-Notes in Roster on each Member
-Limited Withdrawals from Guild Stash etc. (e.g. 1 withdraw per 24 hours) (has already come up as permission but somebody else mentions it as general option)
-Rank Option to have some form of “highlighted” comment feature. For announcements etc.
-Auto-Represent the first Guild you join, but show a tool-tip explaining this feature
-ability to set times for consumables to auto-activate so it doesn’t rely on a guild officer being online to make it happen
-add fields for entering the guild’s website and voice-chat information
-guild chat should have a feature where it alerts you to guild members talking in guild chat but also allows you the option to turn it off?
-Allow guilds to identify a home server and notify members not on that server of their status. (Still relevant because of WvW)
-Include a crafting panel similar to the personal bank for sharing mats with other guild members.
-No “Message suppressed due to excessive messaging” message when mailing guild-members

Substance E.4852:

Brother Dulfite.5793:

juno.1840:

Based upon how much Chris pumped up CDI and LS and how it’s all working beautifully, I conclude there will not be an expansion in 2014 — or ever until ANet decides it needs to do something drastic to recover player population.

I just don’t understand this logic. The money that they get from the gemstore is small in comparison to the amount of money they would get by releasing a $30-60 expansion. Arenanet, and especially NCSOFT, aren’t just concerned with making enough money to keep the game live. They are concerned with making as much profit as possible and giving out a bunch of free updates without people ever having to buy anything again isn’t going to lead them to longterm profit.

Because it’s a simple profit vs effort issue. An expansion could cost $30 but take months of full dev team effort to put out. Why do that when they can sell armor sets for $10 (a third the cost of a whole expansion) and lottery boxes that require a few modelers and riggers. Two, maybe three people can make a functioning armor set in a week or two depending on how long you spend on design. Even if only 5% of the game buys it you are still likely to get more profit this way over the long term, even more so when the gambling addicts notice the RNG boxes.

It’s why they are opting for LS with Gem Store over an actual boxed expansion. They know what they are doing but only time will tell if it was the right decision.

Well in the long term they would make less money because the type of content and game designs will destroy the game. You mean they will make more compared to what they would have made in lets say the first 1,5 year if they would else have released an expansion. Thats true. However if they keep going on like this the game will most likely be pretty dead 1,5 year from now and so making them less money then, then if they would have gone for expansions. So when you see 5+ years as long term then expansion based income would be more interesting.

However like I said, it’s a bigger risk (hyping something is easier then setting a good product that will indeed still be played 5 years from now) and Ncsoft might not be interested in that long term they just move from one investment to the next all short term.

Purely from a game viewpoint the micro-transaction bad for the game but from a financial viewpoint is all depends what you want. Get more money over a way longer period or squeeze as much money out now and then move on to the next project. So when we might say it’s a failure because the game is pretty much dead 1,5 year from now Ncsoft might see it as a success. Just remember that and then don’t buy other games from them. Then in the even longer run it might hurt them after-all.