Nope! They’re still reviewed.
We want people to make suggestions in the sub-forums which make sense for their ideas. As example, if you have an idea about sPvP, you can and should post it in the sPvP sub-forum.
So where should a thread like this one go? https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/suggestions/Guild-System-Improvements/page/4
There is no sub-forum about guild-tools.
Hi All,
I am back at work now and was just enjoying the last few days of my vacation.
It is awesome to see you all discussing the ‘Journey’ side of Horizontal Progression with Colin. Once that discussion has finished I will help us put a proposal together for both the ‘Journey’ and the ‘Reward’ and we can go from there.
Meanwhile Lee from GW2 Hub has posted an interview with me about the CDI. If you get a chance check it out and enjoy the fruits of your hard work:
http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/interviews/exclusive-video-interview-chris-whiteside-cdis
Chris
Now I know this is sort of a no go for ArenaNet because it’s not unique enough but I never really had the feeling of a journey in GW2 and I know why. I even said something about it in the beta forums I think.
In most MMO’s you do quest, they send you all over the world. You learn to know the NPC’s, what they are doing, there story and so on. In the end you can get a unique reward for it. But even while doing it there can be unique rewards. The pet tame function in GW2 is not very dynamic with a predefined list of pets but with a more dynamic system it’s even possible people tame pets the designers did not think of because that animals spawns for a specific quest.
Anyway, as you can see traditional quest send you on a journey over the world and they can give very specific rewards designed an unintentional. GW2 does not have that element so much because they don’t have the more traditional quest.
Making more elements more dynamic (sandbox) also means people find there own rewards developers did not even think of. Like my pet example showed.
So if it’s rewards and journey you are looking for think about more dynamic (sandbox) system and traditional quests.
I remember the part of the living story when scarlet kidnapping queen jennah and the bombs everywhere was supposed to be some huge plot twist that everyone was supposed to look forward to and get super excited over and etc.
I do not have high hopes because of this post.
an expansion to gw2 would include no less than: 15 new areas, 1 new elder dragon, 2 new dungeons, 10 new jumping puzzles, numerous new gear combinations and stats/boons/conditions.
to say it’s better than that… I do not think that means what they think that means. I’m expecting their list will technically be longer than mine but include things like: 30 new town outfits you can buy in the gem store, 18 living story missions you can play once, 3 more sets of infinite mining picks, …
And yet, if they implemented all the stuff you said here it would not be much better because they keep focusing on the gem-store so a big part of the quality and fun is just gone. How great are 15 new zones, 1 new elder dragon, 2 new dungeons, 10 new jumping puzzles, numerous new gear combinations and stats/boons/conditions when the main game is still about a boring gold grind and dynamic events that are boring, don’t have a specific reward and keep repeating?
They need to bring the game back into the game. Undo what they did. Throw all those mini’s that were and are available in the game itself (not in the gem-store / TP / temporary living story grind). They need to allow you to farm for your items in stead of needing to grind gold to buy your items. They need to send you all over the world (like traditional quest do) they need to add all those fun elements MMO’s have. 15 new zones are useless if the game itself is boring.
More World Bosses will get revamp and harder like Teql.
source: http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/interviews/exclusive-interview-chris-whitside-cdis
Well they still think the living story is great.. yeah should not be so much temporary content but overall it’s great according to that interview.
Well while the temporary nature was the biggest problem the rest of the living story so far was also just bad. An grind with low quality temporary content, temporary achievements and temporary rewards. Take away the temporary nature of all of them (so far rewards and achievements stay temporary) and it becomes less bad but it does not become good. So if they really think it’s great that is not a good sign especially if thats where the game wants to lean on as it’s core mechanism.
HP summary page 23 to 28 Part 3
~
- Radiantglyh talks about HP expansion in regards to mini-pets, looking to expand there function from just a collection.
Home instance, Player housing
- Marcus Greythorne discusses the issues with Chrispy about displaying player housings to other players and brings up the idea from LotRO of housing districts.
- Marcus also adds another housing idea withhome mini-dungeon instance.
- Morrigan looks at player housing neighbourhoods as away to expand non combat gameplay.
- Conski Deshan ties player housing to all aspects of the game in this post
Zone Exploration / Progression
- Marcus Greythorne presents another idea on the expansion, removal & addition of new DE’s in zones.
Order /Faction Expansion
- AikunFelcis joins the discussion with a great multi post talk about expanding order’s character impact and content. Part 1, Part 2.
- Marcus Greythorne present another idea for order progression.
I think that the whole element of collection is also not as it should be. You talk about the mini’s being more then collections but collecting them is not fun at this moment. It’s all a grind for money or against time (ls).
Collecting mini’s and other sorts of side progression is also a part of fun character progression. So make sure that is in the game, not behind a living story grind or gold-grind because it’s gem-store related. (same for mounts when they ever get implemented or ranger pets.. now getting a pet is not really a game-element. It’s not dynamic enough for that)
Another way of horizontal progression is implementing fun crafts where it’s not so that you do the crafting so you can get to the max level so you can finally make that cool item but where there is always this next nice / cool / funny item to work towards.
(I said this in an other post here).
Adding XP to a mini to give it more then a collection is nice but first make the collecting itself fun. I do understand why they now do it this way as it’s more likely to sell gems but them maybe they should rethink that and get money from expansions so they are not forced to have those elements all locked behind a boring grind. It’s that grind that many people complain about and it’s part of the horizontal progress of your character. When that is not fun because of a grind then there is your core problem.
~
I would kindly point you to look in the direction of Perfect World International. Where their version of Legendary Weapons, and Ascended Armor/Trinkets are ONLY available if you or someone else is willing to invest THOUSANDS of dollars into their equivalent of the Gem Store. There is no option about it in that game. They require SOMEONE to have to invest thousands of dollars into their Cash Shop in order for anyone to have access to the best gear.
That isn’t even getting into what is required in that game in order to reach the maximum level. So you will excuse me if I ignore your claims that “EVERYTHING” in this game is focused on the Gem Shop, when that is clearly not the case. Especially when it is 100% possible to get your End Game gear in this game without investing a single dime into the Gem Shop. Difficult, yes, but still possible. That is not the case in Games like Perfect World International!
As for you’re claim that you are upset that they are focusing on Gem Sales instead of focusing on expansion box sales… unfortunately I do believe Market Research is on my side when I say that it has been shown that Micro-Transactions will make a company much more money than expansion box sales would ever be capable of making them. That’s just the way things are in the current state of affairs. You will note that Guild Wars 1 did eventually open up a cash shop of it’s own, and that it is this cash shop that is maintaining the Guild Wars 1 Servers now, not expansion box sales.
About your first paragraph. You are saying there are other games that are even worse so we should not complain. That reminds me on some politicians whop also always say we should not complain about thinks because Africa. Sorry but the fact that other games are even worse with P2W elements does not mean this is good. No indeed the fact that you have to point to a very back mechanism and compare that to GW2 to try and justify that what GW2 is doing is good sort or proofs the opposite. Yes there are games that do it even worse. I am very willing to agree on that. That however does not disqualify my point that the gem-store focus is bad for Gw2.
At you second paragraph. The word ‘everything’ was referring to the game mechanic, as you could have understand if you would have read the link I gave you. The game mechanic is totally build around this idea. That does not mean that every element should only be available in the cash-shop. However when implementing items it’s always so that it takes a long time and mostly requires a gold grind to get anything. So gold is everything and as we all know you can buy gems with gold. Why are so many elements missing in the game.. and then I mean why can I not go and collect mini’s in the world. I can grind gold and buy them but they are not really available in the world (well 3 of them are). There where some available in living story’s but they are now also only available in the TP for gold. SO yes with EVERY decision they make they do think if it can benefit there gem-sales. That does indeed not mean that every element they add will be in the gem-store.
At your third paragraph. First of all I am not here to try and get the optimal income model but to get the optimal game. However I do think it’s only partly true. Yes in the short run a micro-transaction focus are way more profit table then expansion-based. However because the quality of the game gets lower because of that focus in the long run you will have less players. So if the investor has a short time plan (what it looks more and more like) then micro-transactions would be the way to go from an financial viewpoint (not from a gamer viewpoint). But when it’s long term then with an expansion focus you can deliver a better quality so generate money over a longer period. Maybe at a slowly pace but because you go over a longer period the total income might be much higher. I personally look at an MMO as a long-term game so then expansions are much better, of course from the investors that might be different. But I am here talking about the game not about what would benefit the investors if they have short-term plants.
Then about your GW1 example. GW1 was really the only big name that was big and kept going strong for many years next to WoW. So if anything that just proofs my point. It was that name that helped them to go and develop GW2. The cash-shop in GW1 was released much later and so was much less part of the core mechanic and mainly there to support the game at the moment Anet started to focus on GW2. The name GW1 manage to set was bigger then they now have with GW2.
Having recently dug into the lore, I don’t think there’s any way that it CAN’T have to do with dragons. They mentioned the feature “bundle” coming in 2014 that sounded a bit like a mini-expansion (in the 2013 in review post) but it’s still a bit vague.
(snip)
Finally, a huge expansion with all of the zones you mentioned? That will demand some heavy development, for all of the art/design/code/hearts/events/etc. that a whole new zone would require – like, more than a year. Cantha and Elona, from what I gathered, were like Tyria. And Tyria is pretty massive. We’re not even finished uncovering all of it yet.
Thank you for the explanation on the lore, very helpful.
I’d like to pose a hypothetical question to everyone which is this.
We don’t know the size of the design team working on the LS updates do we? Is it possible that since launch Anet has had a team working on a expansion in conjunction with the LS team? and if it is possible would the amount of time since launch till spring/summer of 2014 be a adequate amount of time to create a expansion and still produce LS content on a regular basis if the team was large enough? Would it be to some advantage for Anet to keep this a secret? And lastly do any of you think GW2 can survive solely on LS updates with no expansion ever?
Yeah I know more than one question, but it’s a hypothetical that’s been rolling around in my head for the last few weeks and I can’t understand why they can’t or won’t give us more info than it’ going to be a big year for GW2… just hype?
1 We do know how big the team is. I don’t have the numbers at this moment but I remembers them saying how big it was.
2 Possible then again they did say they wanted to do the LS and if that would work out there was no need for an expansion. So it looks like they were not working on an expansions. It’s also likely the other people are working on stuff like WvW.
3 That would be possible however like I said in my previous post, that would not solve the problem. The game did miss things and has only gotten worse and thats because of the type of content. They want to generate money with there gem-store and that effects the game mechanic in a bad way. It’s the same reason many people dislike F2P games. Even if we would get an expansion that does not solve the problem of bad quality content. The element mini’s is already destroyed and if they put mounts in the game I don’t they they will be all in the world like they should but they are likely also mostly behind the gem-store. Anyway, read my previous content or https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-focus-on-micro-transactions/first#post3324571
4 They could keep it a secret. Not sure why but they could.
5 No but if they do it they way they do it now they can’t even survive with expansions. They really need to sift there focus from gem-sales to expansion sales and then undo everything they did before when focusing on gems. (Like putting all the mini’s we have seen in the game, making dyes account-bound and so on) Thats what you should hope if you care about this game.
The LS update vs. Expansion is actually a great example of some Human psychology.
People rather get a expansion ( A big amount of content at one time (and get one every year))
than
Get the LS (A bigger amount of content, but spread over a year)
Well thats not the main problem. It’s the type of content. That however is linked to the living story by the income-model.
It’s the type of content many people don’t like. It’s all a gold grind. Why is it all a gold grind, because the game is designed around the idea they need to get people to buy gems. So you don’t put mini’s in the open world but in a cash-shop or behind a gold grind (same with many other examples have a read: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-focus-on-micro-transactions/first#post3324571 )
When they go for the living story, the way they need to generate income is with the micro-transactions so you get this influence to the game. If they would use expansions to generate income they where not forces to make game design decisions based on getting people to buy gems and so the content would be much better.
Now lets say they would not need to make money then in theory a LS could work if it would indeed all be additions (not just temporary grinds) however there is still one big problem.. people will complete is to easily. Maybe it’s more useful to be over whelmed by content in stead of getting many small additions every time.
Anyway, the company does need to make money and with that fact the LS vs Expansion approach does effect game design from a money point of view and so the LS does indeed not work very well for the quality of the game. However, it looks more and more that Ncsoft just tries to squeeze out as much money as they can and then move on. No long term plants. So from there viewpoint everything might be just fine.
I expect some new maps and the Tengu at the end of this season / start of the next season (so that looks a little like a expansion in the way that it’s a bigger chunk of content in one go) but that can not safe the game if they keep doing it the way they do now.. so have the game-design being influenced by the idea that they need to get people to buy gems.
You guys are totally kittening annoying they make a game with loads of free contents, some permanent most temporary they work hard as well to make this game, seriously if you guys dislike the game so much and what they are doing with it why the kitten are you still playing?.
I just don’t get it.
Free content? I paid for this game. And was willing to pay for an expansion so they did not have to go generate income with micro-translations because that always destroys a games. Sadly enough they did go for the micro-transactions. Makes you wonder why I paid in the first place. More then enough F2P games on the market and I don’t play them because of the way it effects the way the game is designed.
Anyway, don’t talk about free content. I paid for this game and was very willing to pay for upcoming expansions. Looking back it’s rude they asked money for a game that is just going the F2P way with there micro-transactions.
I stopped playing and bought subscription time for WoW. At least they add content every couple of months which is not temporary and I get my gear easier through DROPS instead of this mindless farming-driven crafting crap.
I hope GW2 will add a new campaign or addon with a new continent like all other MMOs do. I can’t stand this. Since the pre-launch I play the same kitten 8 dungeons over and over and with the exception of Fractals they didn’t add anything new. I don’t count the temporary mindless zerg stuff on the same old maps over and over as ‘content’. Those are some events most other MMOs have too. And while it’s fun for a while, it gets utterly boring after a couple of months.
If they won’t proceed with the lore they made (FFS Dragons, Destiny’s Edge, Undead leaderless without Zhaitan etc etc.) and won’t add new professions, crafting, races zones, campaigns, areas, maps etc. I won’t touch this game anymore. I am now at the point of utter disappointment and couldn’t imagine in my worst nightmares how bad this game has ‘evolved’. Just compare this to GW1 after soonish 18 months: 3 CAMPAINGS!!!!!!!! with almost 3 the amount of EXPLORABLE ZONES since the start of GW1 compared to ONE SINGLE ZONE FFS!!!!!!!
However I don’t think the biggest problem is the lagg of new content. If they did not make the mistakes they did and we where now all waiting for some big expansion then less people would be complaining about the lack of content I think.
The problem is like you say the type of content and partly the lag of content at release. You refer to WoW, let me tel you what I did in that game. I collected pets for my hunter because they had a very dynamic tame system letting you also tame some very rare pets that sometimes only spanned in a dungeons or from a quest. I also collected mini’s. They dropped in dungeons or from mobs ore from quest. I also love engineering, every level a new fun item to make, going into the world to collect the materials and recipes, I collected mounts (similar to mini’s) and I did quest. That where my main thinks in WoW and trying to do that stuff could easily keep you busy for 1,5 year. Especially if you also leveled some alt classes.
If I look at the same thinks in GW2. Pets, well there is just some predefined list of pets you can get so not really interesting to get them. Mini’s, 99% of them are gem-store related so you buy them with gold you farm or with real money. No fun in going into the world and collecting them. There are now 2 or 3 in the world but because you lose interest in the mini’s those also don’t mind anymore, not even talking about all those in the living story you can’t get anymore. Crafting, well there is no fun craft like engineering but the crafts that are available don’t really send you all over the world, it’s mainly grinding gold to buy your items to grind your way up to level 400 / 500 so you can then finally build what you want. Mounts? Not in GW2 and if they where likely it they would also be in the gem-store like the mini’s. No traditional quest you can really complete, hearts are boring and dynamic events don’t give you a feeling of completion because they keep repeating.
So as far as those thinks are in GW2 they just require a gold grind in stead of a journey into the world bust most of them simply aren’t really farmable in the world. In a way that you can really go for them buy doing a dungeon or a quest of farming a group of mobs.
We do have stuff that WoW does not have but that is the living story what is basically a temporary grind for achievements and rewards. So more grind.
If we had the good stuff people where not complaining yet about a lack of content IF there was an expansion on the way but with gold and achievement grind grind grind people miss the real content.
The one thing I do not like about sub-based games like WoW is the fact that they put a timer over your head.. then again GW2 does the same with the living story.
Reason behind the way Anet does thinks ust be the gem-store. Gold-grind means gold is worth much so you are more likely to buy gems (well some people). If you could go into the world and farm what you needed (so play the game) there would be much less reason to buy gems. They really should have focused on expansions for income so the content we have is not all based around that gem-store. That really destroyed this game. An expansion with some new continent and the Tengu would then also not safe this game if they keep doing things in this same way. They really have to undo much of what they did (example: throw all those mini’s that where availible the last year) in the world and then stop there focus on the gem-store and start focusing om expansions.
Else the new content will have the same problem as the current content.
Injustice, Oppression, Elitism, and Favoritism, is this the future we need?
I’ve noticed a lot of that from the developers and here on the forums from those who run it.
But to contribute to the topic, I don’t look forward to anything exciting from GW2 in 2014.. I’d happily pay a sub for one of these up and coming games though.
I keep finding it funny that in every mmo forum I keep seeing people asking for sub-based games and if a game decides not to go sub-based they are all mad but in the last 9 years (really recent released games still need to prove them-self) all games that went sub-based failed with there sub-based model. I do understand that you do not like a micro-transaction based model (I don’t) but GW1 had a good model where they focused on expansions. That was really good.
(edited by Devata.6589)
These people are very excited for 2014. I do notice a conspicuous absence of one particular game in their predictions…directly mentioned once, I believe, and that was to ask for something that’s not been delivered…
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/20/the-think-tank-massivelys-2014-mmo-predictions/
I hate to say this, but I kinda saw it coming. I think things are going to become very quiet in Lion’s Arch soon…which is a shame. I looked forward to this game more than any other for several years.
these guys are wow brainwashed funboys, wildstar has more superior features than wow and they still praise the wow ex-pac. This just doesnt make sense.
GW2 also has some superior features than wow but thats not what counts int he end. Personally if I had to pick between WoW en Wildstar I would also go for WoW. The style of Wildstar is like a WoW clone + aliens. Well I linke both styles but a mix not so much. The story telling is supposed to be funny (TeamFortress clone at that part) and while that can be fun in some games for me it does not work in an MMO.
Then there can be little details that they do different. Crafting, rare items and so on. You might prefer the one over the other. For example I like it how WoW hides all those fun little rare items in the world (pet stoned, heal orbs and so on). If people invested time into a game that also counts and then looking at the company behind it. WoW has it’s own company while Wildstar has Ncsoft behind it and to me it looks like Ncsoft threads GW2 like a short time project that they use to squeeze out as much money as they can. So it’s likely they do the same with Wildstar, I for one will not go for a game made by company x and financed by Ncsoft.
So there might be many reasons why you go for one game in stead of the another and having some superior features does not mean everybody in his right might should go for that option. It do also not have to be brainwashed fan-boys. In all honestly you reaction looks to me more like a brainwashed hate-boy. You know, the type that just hates WoW because well because WoW.
No but a lot of people hate the living story. That has mainly to do with the type of content what has mainly to do with a gem-store focus and the living story needing to sell gems.
A next season Living Story might not have Scarlet but it will have the same Living Story content that is the main problem.
You do of course realize that the Gem Store is how Arena Net makes their main profit off of this game. Being upset that they are targeting their content at pushing Gem Store Purchases is like being upset that this game doesn’t have a subscription fee.
No one is forcing you to buy the stuff that is on sale in the Gem Store. In fact it strictly isn’t necessary to use the Gem Store to get full use out of the game, much less the Living Story content. The Gem Store just makes life more convenient is all.
Every time I do not explicit say in a post that I do understand that they need to make money and how they can do it in another way some guy comes with a post like you. Really, do you guys not understand that there are multiple ways to make money. Anyway I will answer your question.
“You do of course realize that the Gem Store is how Arena Net makes their main profit off of this game.” Oow I very much do realize that and as I stated in multiple threads including this one I created myself https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-focus-on-micro-transactions/first#post3324571 I see exactly that as one of the biggest problems for this game. Everything is focused on selling gems and not on making a better game resulting in a worse game. Have a read there for more details!
“Being upset that they are targeting their content at pushing Gem Store Purchases is like being upset that this game doesn’t have a subscription fee.” That would be one option but no it’s like being upset that this game does focus on gems for there main source for income in stead of focusing on expansions (box-sales) for there main income. You know like GW1 did. The fact that GW1 did that and that GW2 asked money for there game made me believe that would be the model they went for (while also having a cash-shop next to it but not as main focus) was the main reason I got interested in this game. Simply because a cash-shop focus is always bad for the quality of the game itself, and GW2 proofs that again! So you can say “is like being upset that this game doesn’t have a focus on expansions for income” Yeah indeed! And the result it has to the game.
“No one is forcing you to buy the stuff that is on sale in the Gem Store.” Do I say that anywhere? Didn’t I say the type of content was bad. Yes that is what I said, and I said that was related to the cash-shop focus. I never said I was forced to buy items I just said the game-content itself gets worse because of it. For examples I would suggest reaching the thread I liked before. The “You are not forces to buy” is also one people keep throwing around while thats not at all the point.
“The Gem Store just makes life more convenient is all.” Yeah partly because they make the game without it less convenient. You know like upping the stack-number with a gem-store item. Really? 250 is to low, or the stuff we need is to much. Then you should up the stack level or lower the requirements what you need but what do they do? They ad an items to the gem-store to up the stack-number. I consider that extremely bad behavior. However once again, it has nothing to do with being forced to buy it or not it has to do with how the focus on ti effects the game-content. And it does so in a very bad way. The game is imho a worse shape then it was right after release.
No but a lot of people hate the living story. That has mainly to do with the type of content what has mainly to do with a gem-store focus and the living story needing to sell gems.
A next season Living Story might not have Scarlet but it will have the same Living Story content that is the main problem.
Because ANET abandoned the development of GW1 to make a better game based on the same principles – no grind for stats, cosmetic endgame, good and engaging pvp.
Instead why dont the people that want vertical progression and all that go back to WoW?
You forget the most important part. An expansion based income model so a micro-transaction focus does not destroy the game like it does now.
I don’t really like GW1 that much, just there payment model.
There WILL be an expansion. NCSoft has repeatedly said such. Don’t let the misinformation cloud your judgment. LS was never intended to replace real expansions, not that it ever could.
You are the one misinforming people. The LS was supposed to be the replacement if according to them it was a success. And while many hate the LS successfully it might have done what it needed to do, while in the meanwhile destroying the game.
Anyway, here is the source:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-03-its-unlikely-guild-wars-2-will-ever-get-an-expansion-pack“If we do this right,” he answered, “we will probably never do an expansion and everything will be going into this Living World strategy.”
There’s your answer right there. They DIDN’T do it right. Perk up, you have an expansion to look forward to, thank the six.
According to you and to me and to many people they did not do it right. But you should also see that the living story is just about generating gem-sales so while it might destroy the game, in there opinion it might do what it needs to do. Even with all the complains they are just starting a new LS season. So they might see that different.
Especially if Ncsoft does not see GW2 as a long term investment but a short term (3 years?) investment. Then the LS might be cheaper while squeezing out the last money in the remaining time. Then Ncsoft focuse on Wildstar and after that maybe yet another game. That might be there whole business model. It’s not like it’s there own game like Lineage was. For them it’s just an investment and they might not see it or be interested in it as a long-term investment. You don’t know.
(edited by Devata.6589)
Well I always though the story was moving towards factions and of course we will get the Tengu. However they really have to come with something really really good overhauling much of what we have. The Tengu will not be able to safe this game.
For starters, make it a really an open word, not some instanced based maps, introduce mounts and IN the game not in the gem-shop and also not behind some general grind. But behind specific farms.
Make sure we really get roles and stop with the LS / Gem-store strategy to generate income going to a expansions based income model. Then undo all the stuff they did in favor of the gem-store. So put the mini’s in the game, not in the gem-store or behind temporary content, make dyes account-bound, put a barber in the game where you can do your hear and the expansion will then unlock all hairstyles, not some cash-shop item.
Also add some nice fun crafts where you can craft fun items every level in stead of needing to grind your way up to 400 / 500 just so you can then make what you need / want and promise to really stop that gem-store focus forever.
Thats the only way I see an expansion or big patch still being able to get stuff running again. Else it will stay a gold / achievement grind where many peopl already gave up on collections like mini’s because they don’t like to grind for gold or missed some living story events and all the other negative effects we have seen. Put the game back into the game.
(edited by Devata.6589)
There WILL be an expansion. NCSoft has repeatedly said such. Don’t let the misinformation cloud your judgment. LS was never intended to replace real expansions, not that it ever could.
You are the one misinforming people. The LS was supposed to be the replacement if according to them it was a success. And while many hate the LS successfully it might have done what it needed to do, while in the meanwhile destroying the game.
Anyway, here is the source:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-03-its-unlikely-guild-wars-2-will-ever-get-an-expansion-pack
“If we do this right,” he answered, “we will probably never do an expansion and everything will be going into this Living World strategy.”
Then you can also remove all servers and make it 1 server with this system. Thats how ESO and Star Citizen do it.
something interesting I found when looking for another source:
why there are no quests in GW2:
Why did we get rid of quests? We got rid of quests because it forced the world to not change. Every new player that comes into the game has to do the same quests in the same order. How do you try to do that and have the sense that a player’s actions can change the world? Sure my actions can change the world to a certain degree, but not in the sense of ever changing a quest or the circumstances that are causing a quest-giver to say they need your help. So we thought that the kind of content that you release into the world needs to be the opposite of that. It can’t be something that when players run out of things to do we give them more challenges that they need to grind out to do and that add another 100 hours to the game. It just doesn’t work. If you want to be able to have players impacting the world around them, not just progressing and leaving the old stuff behind, then all of your content needs to be about impacting the world." source: http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=32955&storypage=2
relevant because players suggested Order-quests
Funny enough with traditional quest I get more the feeling of making a change then with the dynamic events. At least with a quest I can really complete it. Beside that they send me all over the world in a real adventure and I get to learn the NPC’s and there stories and a quest can give a unique reward.
With the dynamic events it’s just one event I can do. It does not send me all over the world and I don’t get the interaction with NPC’s I would have with traditional quest. But worse is that a few min later it happens again. So it feels pointless, like it does not make a change at all. Plus the fact that it happens multiple times and so I can do it multiple times also means I can’t get a unique reward from it.
Dynamic events would be a nice addition to quest but they can’t take it’s full place and part is because they do feel pointless because you can’t really complete them as they keep spawning again. So exactly the opposite of what was the idea.
And why that is relevant.
Mainly because the traditional quests send you all over the world. They help you to explore the world, learn the npc’s (and there stories) and get unique rewards. Those thinks are a form of horizontal progression while at the same time helping your vertical level progression.
1 Acknowledge that collecting mini’s and other sorts of side progression is also a part of fun character progression. So make sure that is in the game, not behind a living story grind or gold-grind because it’s gem-store related. (same for mounts when they ever get implemented or ranger pets.. now getting a pet is not really a game-element. It’s not dynamic enough for that)
2 Links to 1. Implement fun crafts where it’s not so that you do the crafting so you can get to the max level so you can finally make that cool item but where there is always this next nice / cool / funny item to work towards. Once again a form or horizontal character progression.
3 Sandbox elements. Thing like building houses and guild halls and so on. And once again, it should be in the game, not behind a gold-grind or gem-store.
(edited by Devata.6589)
Problem is that you mainly have to be watching yourself not somebody else and the overall difficulty go’s down because there is less reliance on you specifically because of your special role. thats simply how it works out in GW2 at this moment.
1) In the Trinity you’re focusing on what you’re doing, relying on others to do their job. It’s exactly the same. The healer doesn’t focus on what the Tank or DPS are doing, right?
2) If them mechanics that create the roles in the encounters needed to be performed in order to beat the encounter, how is that any different to the Trinity?
Even in real combat situations there are many roles including healers (medics), tanks (tanks and other infantry), dps and many other roles at well. All working together and that just makes good teamwork.
However, let’s imagine one of those soldiers got injured. Suddenly, another soldier (usually DPS) becomes support to help get the wounded soldier out or to cover, while the other soldiers lay down suppresive fire (control) to give them a chance.
Or maybe a field medic took a bullet to the arm. One of them soldiers can easily switch from firing his gun (DPS) to helping that medic out with basic first aid (support).
They aren’t fixed into their roles, and they can freely adapt to the situation.
Kind of like the GW2 combat system is currently.
Someone goes down, and suddenly someone could potentially bring out some CC in order to give some other players the chance to revive the downed player.
More similar to the situation than strict role dependency, where if one role fails it’s the end.
Yes, there are specialties in any work place. However, more often than not, someone else will be able to fill that role, even if it’s for a short time, while the person who was originally manning that role returns.
“The healer doesn’t focus on what the Tank or DPS are doing, right?” Not right. There are keeping an eye on everybody making sure nobodies heal drops and keeping there own cool-down for skins in mind.
The tank is checking the mobs and having a look at the DPS and the healer to check if they are not being attacked. Especially when the healer is being attacked he needs to make sure he takes the aggro.
The DPS guys are mainly keeping an eye on the overall fight, also making sure mobs don’t get close to the healer and using trying to prevent the mobs / boss from doing specific attacks.
So yes, when there are those roles everybody has an eye on everybody. But even if that would not be directly the case it would be indirectly.
In a FPS with a sniper, a soldier and a engineer, the soldier is helping the engineer to be able to place a bomb (or whatever he needs to do) while a sniper is laying at a distance using his bullets for the kills the soldiers can get or the ‘life saving kills’’ . Well life saving for your team.
I am not sure what you mean with 2. But the difference between having roles or not is that without the fight simply becomes less interesting. More of smashing keys then actually thinking about the fight, keeping an eye on things (except for your own HP).
And yes they all have some overlapping skills but thats nothing like it is in GW2 where they all have the same role but do have some difference in classes / skills. What you describe in your combat and work situation is the opposite of what we see in GW2.
Multiple roles but some overlapping skills (so you are indeed at least temporary able to take over another role) vs One role but some variability in skills.
(edited by Devata.6589)
I think it’s a combination of both and feel like both are missing in GW2. About that each role would have to take skill X, Y and Z? No even with roles there any multiple ways but yeah if your role would be healer nearly all skills you use will be heal related. Just like most of what you are using now is DPS related and then there is the healing yourself or friends to compensate for not having that healer-class. There is now just one role and thats a DPS role with some healing abilities.
But surely that would make healing exactly like the current state DPS? Just different flavours of heals. So instead of damage with a condition, damage with another effect, it’d be a heal with a boon, a heal with a cleanse, a heal with some other effect.
Again, if we take ‘role’ to mean your purpose in the group, and on a deeper level, your purpose during that encounter, then the roles can come from the encounters themselves, and with great variety, without needing to jam everyone into three generic roles that will never change.
Not to mention you’d have to tune all content around having a support character, thus forcing groups to take a support, as well as a control, since the support would have to have the highest aggro to make the content difficult. Granted, because of the lack of aggro-keeping skills, it would be a step up from the traditional Trinity.
However, I don’t feel set, defined roles that are made and organised before you even enter the dungeon are the way to go, rather roles that are unique to that encounter and that are created by the mechanics of the encounter itself, so you have to adapt while you’re in that dungeon.
IMO, more variety in what roles there are, so more opportunity to make choices, so more depth.
Problem is that you mainly have to be watching yourself not somebody else and the overall difficulty go’s down because there is less reliance on you specifically because of your special role. thats simply how it works out in GW2 at this moment.
You don’t feel the need of defined roles but then lest for a second not look at GW2 but at normal life. When working towards one goal you put people together with all there own specialties. They might have brother knowledge but all have there own specialties so together they can complete there goal. You are not putting together a group of people who are all able of doing everything but are not specialist in anything.
Even in real combat situations there are many roles including healers (medics), tanks (tanks and other infantry), dps and many other roles at well. All working together and that just makes good teamwork.
Requireing a specific group is something else then requires specific roles.
’ but it also allows for depth in the system we have now – we’d have to make meaningful choices out of our skillsets, where we allocate our trait points, without delegating a profession to a role"
The depth in the system we have now? Aren’t the most complains about the combat or about not having a trinity is indeed the fact that there is no depth in the system.
We do NOT have to make meaningful choices. It’s just a spam of buttons that does not require a lot of teamwork, thinking or preparation at all.
Everything you are saying now we have because of the current system is escalate what many people are missing because of the currency system.
I never really have to think a lot in the combat in GW2, I don’t even have to pay much attention to it. If I do a dungeon 90% of the times I have GW2 windowed while reading some websites or watching a movie. Most combat games would not allow me to do so because they require my full attention.
You took that quote out entirely, completely out of context.
That quote wasn’t saying that we currently use the depth. That part was attached to an argument as to why roles should be built into the encounter’s themselves, thus improving them to make use of the depth of the system.
There is depth (that is, the amount of meaningful choices you can make) in the system itself – it’s just the content doesn’t require it.
If you come up to a boss, wiped, and you swapped a single skill, trait, whatever out that makes that encounter easier (say, going from a passive Power increase to an Immobilize), that’s a meaningful choice. That’s where the depth is in the system.
On the opposite side, forcing people into set, defined roles (like the Trinity), doesn’t give players the opportunity to think of their approach, thus takes away from the meaningful choices. Each role would have to take skills X, Y and Z. No choice =/= no depth. The only choice is when to use them, and then it tends to be in a rotation.
This is why I say that, for the most part (excluding Defiant), it’s encounter design that is at fault, not the actual system. It doesn’t force us to adapt and think how we can use the tools we have. Set roles would also cause the same problem, because if you’re a Control player, you don’t need to adapt your build – you take whatever traits and skills provide you with the tools to control.
I think it’s a combination of both and feel like both are missing in GW2. About that each role would have to take skill X, Y and Z? No even with roles there any multiple ways but yeah if your role would be healer nearly all skills you use will be heal related. Just like most of what you are using now is DPS related and then there is the healing yourself or friends to compensate for not having that healer-class. There is now just one role and thats a DPS role with some healing abilities.
~
I have to agree and at the same time disagree. I never see it like somebody is more important in a game like WoW but on the same had, yes if somebody does not do his task (role) like he should everybody is more likely to die. Plus there need to be teamwork because a tank might be able to tank but still need to get healed and if some mob go’s for the healer but the tank is not able to get his attention it’s the duty of a DPSer to do that. So everybody is watching everybody.
It requires more teamwork and so everybody is important. Yes you can say DPS are a little less because if there are 3 DPSers in a party and one is just not as good then you still manage while a bad healer is a bigger problem. However thats now the case for everybody in GW2. If you are not so good well no problem. Exactly what you said why you did not like being DPS in a game like WoW.
If however everybody would be just as important because of it’s role then you would still have the more interesting combat and everybody was just as important (something you also say you think is important).
So taking away the trinity is not persé bad in my option, but they should still have definitive roles and that not the case at all. Thats what is bad imho.
Personally, I think the aspect of team work should be handled more so based off of the fight mechanics as opposed to roles. Make the fights more challenging in that regard where it requires team work. I don’t feel like having different roles is really the answer.
The biggest flaw with GW2 system is there isn’t much of a way to gauge who is doing their job and who isn’t. A game like WoW with the trinity system, it is fairly easy to tell most of the time. I think this could be resolved by adding meters that display DPS done, healing done, and damage taken. This will let us know who is and isn’t performing in the group. I just don’t think definitive roles is necessary the solution. I think it would solve some things, but cause other issues that are present in games that do have the trinity system.
If we had the dps, heal, and damage taken meter, this would open up the ability to have different roles, but not make it so that they are necessary for success. What I mean is, players would figure out that it would be ideal to have someone that takes on more of a support role, 3 dps, and someone with high damage tolerance. This would ultimately make roles defined, but not necessary for success which I think is very important.
Over time, people would learn what the best and most effective play styles to have in a group are, giving you a sense of having that definitive role, albeit one that is not necessary. I know it sounds silly, as what I am saying is nothing more than a display of numbers. But it will give users more of a sense of significance when in a group, without taking a step backward and using the trinity system.
But the role itself is also fun. Everybody having his task and people depending on each others task is fun. All doing sort of the same is just less fun. Even if it’s hard in the end if there are no defined roles then all it comes down it is making sure everybody keeps standing and fighting. And then means teamwork will not go much further then ressing each other.
Yes the trinity requires good players but isn’t that part of the fun as well? No need for the good players means no need to pay much attention yourself. No sitting on the edge of your chair.
Yes trinity has it’s problems (like the Que’s) the question is, do those problems outweigh the extra elements is gives to the combat? And again.. Trinity is a nice and all but personally I am just talking about defined roles whether that are the trinity ones or other ones.
1) I feel GW2’s system has more potential for true teamwork, group-play and depth than the standard Trinity, since you aren’t forced into a role or spec. Someone could go full damage, or sacrifice a bit of damage to bring some control if things go pear-shaped.
2) I don’t feel that ‘role’ needs to be limited to aspects of combat (control, damage, support), and that you can have multiple roles in the fight, even if they focus on the same thing. Look at the Effigy in CoF. There are 2 roles: damaging the boss and destroying the crystals. Just because they don’t need control or support, doesn’t change the fact there are roles in that fight.
However, the issue with this brings me onto my next point.
3) I don’t think it isn’t the fault of the actual combat system itself so much as the encounter design.
The best example imo is what The Lover’s could be. You’d have a few roles here: 2 people to keep them away from each other, while the others deal damage. Maybe support as well to help those who are keeping them apart. However, all that is circumvented by:
- The boulder’s in the room
- The mechanic doesn’t trigger often enough
Now, if you removed the boulders and had the mechanic trigger so often that people would have to share the responsibility of CC, I feel this fight would be much improved.
Well in 1 you use words as potential and could so you already seem to agree that the teamwork is not in GW2. I think it’s partly because of the encounters but also because the roles are not defined enough. There are no hard roles.
2 When it’s not limited at all there is not definitive role anymore. Then it once more becomes jack of all trades master of none. You refer to the ability to have 2 roles with one class, but in the end you still have to go for one of the roles or a combination of those two but you are still limited. Jack of 2 master of 1, or master in one, but never jack of all master of none.
However giving the option to choose two roles (or a mix) with one class is not something that is possible because of the GW2 system. WoW has a trinity system but there are classes that give you the option to go for 2 roles or a mix of two. However when going for the mix you pretty much need a second person do to the same.
1) Oh, I think there is teamwork in GW2, it’s just lacking in the PvE side of things (outside of ressing). There’s a video somewhere where a group of 5 players drive off a zerg of around 30 players in WvW. Heck, me and 3 mats drove off a group of around 10 in WvW before. The teamwork and co-ordination (or at least the systems for it) is there, it’s just most of the content doesn’t require the full use of these systems.
2. You misread what I said. What I was on about is that a ‘role’ in the literal sense is your purpose in the group. Expanding on this, you could also say that it’s your purpose during that encounter. This, however, doesn’t have to be limited in terms of you have to have one control, one support and three damage. Defined roles can easily be built into the fight (like keeping the Lover’s away from each other) without forcing the players into pre-defined group setup.
Not only does building the roles into the encounters allow the devs more freedom in creating their encounters (maybe one encounter requires a lot of control, while the next needs condition removal and damage), but it also allows for depth in the system we have now – we’d have to make meaningful choices out of our skillsets, where we allocate our trait points, without delegating a profession to a role.
So, to TL:DR – Roles built into encounters, not forcing a particular group setup before they even get into the dungeon, adds more variety and depth than requiring a set group for every dungeon ever.
Requireing a specific group is something else then requires specific roles.
’ but it also allows for depth in the system we have now – we’d have to make meaningful choices out of our skillsets, where we allocate our trait points, without delegating a profession to a role"
The depth in the system we have now? Aren’t the most complains about the combat or about not having a trinity is indeed the fact that there is no depth in the system.
We do NOT have to make meaningful choices. It’s just a spam of buttons that does not require a lot of teamwork, thinking or preparation at all.
Everything you are saying now we have because of the current system is escalate what many people are missing because of the currency system.
I never really have to think a lot in the combat in GW2, I don’t even have to pay much attention to it. If I do a dungeon 90% of the times I have GW2 windowed while reading some websites or watching a movie. Most combat games would not allow me to do so because they require my full attention.
Saved up gold for the precursor for my first completed (The Juggernaut), you know the reward that can be obtained anywhere in the game, not just from champ farming? You don’t have to grind to get gold, you save, you use your resources effectively squeezing out the most value you can out of materials by refining or crafting. Play the market every once in awhile, invest like on patches we just had. Just because the only means that seems acceptable to you is the fastest most tedious way possible does not mean you are FORCED to grind. That is your choice.
All my time is spent managing my guild and going out and participating in group activities with those friends and guildies, making these items was not my priority and probably took me many more months than grinders. These activities include WvW, dungeons, and fractals all drop materials you need and other valuables that can be converted into gold. It is as simple as saving while playing the game, it is only a grind if you make it a grind.
People are turning this game into something negative because having fun stopped being why they play the game. These people are to concerned of having the very best via the fastest means possible, approach any MMO like that, it will be a grind. If playing the game in general is a grind. Why are you here?
So you had to buy it and in order to buy it you had to grind gold. Yes there are many ways to grind gold. WcW zergs, Fractal runs, Dungeons runs are also grinded a lot for gold. CoF P1 for example. I never talked about champion trains. Indeed you could also play market, but thats a separate game by itself.
“Just because the only means that seems acceptable to you is the fastest most tedious way possible does not mean you are FORCED to grind.“
LOL I say I don’t like grind and then in your mindset that means I think thats the most acceptable way.
No, I don’t think that acceptable and because I don’t like to grind I don’t play a lot and I also don’t have a legendary. Because when playing the game it all comes down to a grind. If I set my goal to get the legendary for example and I search what I should do to get it, then it comes down to grind gold (in the many possible ways) and buy the items.. just like you said.. you had to buy the items.
I can not play to get the items, I can not specifically farm the items. I need to grind the currency. And about the saving money.. No that also does not work because of the inflation. You need to grind against the inflation, Just saving over a longer period will also not work. Plus that I like to work towards something and just saving up money while doing other stuff means I am not directly going for a specific target.
The way the game is designed makes it a grind. “These activities include WvW, dungeons, and fractals all drop materials you need and other valuables that can be converted into gold.” This exactly. Stuff just drops randomly everywhere. So no direct way to works toward something. Yeah something you need might pop up once in a while but overall you need to sell your items you where not interested in so you can then buy the items you need. In stead of grinding champion trains you where mixing the grind, thats very nice but the fact is that you can’t work directly towards something. It requires a grind for gold to buy what you need.
I am here because at this moment the forum is more interesting then the game.
Now just lets take WoW’s engineering profession (what is a craft here).
If I do that very soon I can make something nice to work to. Not something I the distance (like the level 400 / 500 crafting you need in gw2 to make anything interesting) To get the required items I can do quest to get recipe’s, and can obtain my materials in the world. All very doable and I can easily work directly towards that. When I have that item there is a new item just a few level higher waiting for me I can directly work towards. It’s go’s like that all up to the highest possible level / item. Never the need to just do stuff to save money to buy items I need to save to get the item. No I am directly working towards a goal.
Even the more boring farms. Lets say I want some mini dragon, then I know one type of mobs in one area can drop it. I run in circles there killing the same mob over and over again. Just as brainless as the gold-grind in GW2 but I am working directly towards the goal, that mini.
That is the big difference. Working directly towards your goal or having to grind a currency to then being able to buy your thinks. In GW2 it’s pretty much impossible (in a decent way) to work directly to your goal without some currency grind. So thats why the game requires you to grind if you want to reach any of those goals.
As long as F2P and B2P are the new hip fad, expect every game released under that payment method to be an average grinder. Has been proved time and time again since F2P became a thing.
That being said, this game at least somewhat gives you an option on whether or not to farm. But if you don’t get sucked into the farming loop the game gets old in a few short months. It’s a real conundrum they have going on, and I hope they figure out a way to bring the fun back to killing monsters, rather than forcing us to farm champion trains if we ever want to crawl out of the slums that is the GW2 economy currently.
Personally, I don’t feel like this game is THE grindiest game out there, but it’s near the top, and when all my RL friends leave because of “the grind” it says something about the game, whether the grind is imagined or real.
Wait there!!!
I don’t want to go into a F2P / B2P discussion again because if I say I consider GW2 more of a F2P game in the state it currently is, I get many people telling me it’s B2P because you have to pay the initial game.
However, lets say you can make your money based on micro-transactions. A F2P game is required to do so because in the end of the they they do need to make money.
However you can also generate your income with sales of the game and then regular expansions of the game. (Much like GW1 did).
What you are saying here is true for games that generate most of there income with micro-transactions. And thats also exactly what GW2 is doing at this moment.
However it does not have to be true for a game that generates money with sales of the game and expansions. Like a ‘true’ B2P game does (can do).
So lets not dismiss a possibly good model like B2P because some games ask money for there game and after that start generating money in a similar way as pretty much all F2P games do.
I say if people want to farm this game like a full time job for digital items I say let them. I am a huge anti-farm player, I already have a real job don’t want to sit there and labor digital items out. But some people prefer this play style and its an essential part of an economy.
I played this game since beta and have a legendary and almost finished with my 2nd one and my ascended armor and I have yet to touch this champ train everyone does. Its funny to hear people say you are FORCED to farm. No your not, it just might take you a bit longer to obtain things playing normally, just because other people are out grinding all day doesn’t make your experience lesser or that you HAVE to do it as well.
I rather those farmers be out supplying the economy, spending gold on my items, and having something to do than other than being logged off.
I said you are forced to grind not forced to farm. That is a big difference. How did you for example get your (almost 2) legendary weapons? Explain me the progress. You went and did a specific dungeon to get your pre-cursor?. Oow no wait, thats not possible. It’s a to random drop. Same for many of the other items your need to make a lengendary.
More likely you did grind many content to earn gold and then with that gold buy most of the items you need. That is the grind-part.
Every time a thread that reflect’s a person’s enthusiasm about the game opens, all the sad dudes show up to ruin it. Wow.
I, on the other hand, can’t wait to see how the living story will end. Pretty sure Anet will at last reveal what Scarlet really wants and everything is gonna go boom. There was some speculation that “rocking tyria to its very core” means Primordius may surface.
Also, account bound WvW exp and Edge of the Mists. Holy hell, I’m gonna pull all nighters because of those. And Arenas are in testing. Can’t wait I say!
PS I want dwarves as a playable race but that will never, ever happen. T_T
Guess what, if somebody starts a thread with a complain there will always be people showing up to defend the game. That’s how a discussion works.
I think people are missing the point of removing the trinity system. The trinity system has a tendency to make certain players feel more or less important based on their role. This also causes a problem when you get an inexperienced player filling one of the specialty roles (tank or heals). Having just one of these players be inexperienced can make for a poor experience for all other players. Getting rid of the trinity system resolves that issue.
Is the GW2 system perfect? No. But I think on this topic, perfection isn’t achievable. I realize some find the GW2 system to be less rewarding, which in some cases, I agree. But it also creates a more fun experience overall IMO.
I played WoW, a lot. I was a healer or a tank on all of my characters. The reason was because I liked to feel important. I felt insignificant as a DPS. GW2 allows me to finally do DPS because I know longer feel like any one person is more important than me. We are all equals. It sounds dumb and cliche, but it’s psychology and it is just the way some people’s psychology works.
Lastly, I do think the roles are still present, just much more subtle. I play Guardian. I feel my role is to stay alive, help keep others alive, and take the majority of the damage when I can. As opposed to when I play thief my thief, my role is to do as much DPS output as I can. It’s there, it just isn’t as drastic. Having people take on these subtle roles benefits groups even if you don’t see it. Just because it’s possible without them, doesn’t mean it isn’t beneficial.
I have to agree and at the same time disagree. I never see it like somebody is more important in a game like WoW but on the same hand, yes if somebody does not do his task (role) like he should everybody is more likely to die. Plus there need to be teamwork because a tank might be able to tank but still need to get healed and if some mob go’s for the healer but the tank is not able to get his attention it’s the duty of a DPSer to do that. So everybody is watching everybody.
It requires more teamwork and so everybody is important. Yes you can say DPS are a little less because if there are 3 DPSers in a party and one is just not as good then you still manage while a bad healer is a bigger problem. However thats now the case for everybody in GW2. If you are not so good well no problem. Exactly what you said why you did not like being DPS in a game like WoW.
If however everybody would be just as important because of it’s role then you would still have the more interesting combat and everybody was just as important (something you also say you think is important).
So taking away the trinity is not persé bad in my option, but they should still have definitive roles and that not the case at all. Thats what is bad imho.
(edited by Devata.6589)
1) I feel GW2’s system has more potential for true teamwork, group-play and depth than the standard Trinity, since you aren’t forced into a role or spec. Someone could go full damage, or sacrifice a bit of damage to bring some control if things go pear-shaped.
2) I don’t feel that ‘role’ needs to be limited to aspects of combat (control, damage, support), and that you can have multiple roles in the fight, even if they focus on the same thing. Look at the Effigy in CoF. There are 2 roles: damaging the boss and destroying the crystals. Just because they don’t need control or support, doesn’t change the fact there are roles in that fight.
However, the issue with this brings me onto my next point.
3) I don’t think it isn’t the fault of the actual combat system itself so much as the encounter design.
The best example imo is what The Lover’s could be. You’d have a few roles here: 2 people to keep them away from each other, while the others deal damage. Maybe support as well to help those who are keeping them apart. However, all that is circumvented by:
- The boulder’s in the room
- The mechanic doesn’t trigger often enough
Now, if you removed the boulders and had the mechanic trigger so often that people would have to share the responsibility of CC, I feel this fight would be much improved.
Well in 1 you use words as potential and could so you already seem to agree that the teamwork is not in GW2. I think it’s partly because of the encounters but also because the roles are not defined enough. There are no hard roles.
2 When it’s not limited at all there is not definitive role anymore. Then it once more becomes jack of all trades master of none. You refer to the ability to have 2 roles with one class, but in the end you still have to go for one of the roles or a combination of those two but you are still limited. Jack of 2 master of 1, or master in one, but never jack of all master of none.
However giving the option to choose two roles (or a mix) with one class is not something that is possible because of the GW2 system. WoW has a trinity system but there are classes that give you the option to go for 2 roles or a mix of two. However when going for the mix you pretty much need a second person do to the same.
Ok so it’s easier in this game. Thats true, the grind is pretty brainless. However you are now forced to do a brainless grind to get your items. Why would it be fine that a brainless grind rewards you but hard content should not reward. Have do disagree if anything then hard content should be rewarding but if there are multiple ways I would also not mind. Problem is that you are now forced to grind.
“Hard” content becomes a brainless grind once you master it. Nothing stays hard. You may just need to press a few extra buttons in the end.
With a good AI that has also enough randomizers in it’s core that is not true. Anyway, my comment was to Beldin.5498 who said he prefers grind rewards over difficulty rewards. He did not like hard content so even if it would be true what you say then he maybe means he does not even wants to master it once.
Putting a daily chest limit for Champions would fix it period. Increase rewards per mini-chest, but you can only receive it once a day. Queensdale, Frostgorge Champion Trains stopped in one minute.
If people would like to get more Champion mini-chests, well, they’d have to visit other places, search for them and don’t rotate.
For people saying it would be an exctinction of world…erm…Those people don’t explore the world, they just rotate over and over, they’re just pure bots. Heck, I heard that they even run only pre-thought paths to get to the boss as quickly as possible. They count every step, every little detail..That’s kind of sick.
Also, adding one, one low RNG reward with some cool skin or minipet, or anything unique to each of Champions would bring totally new life to all areas in the game.
Another idea coming with that is very simple. For each jumping puzzle, dynamic event or sth like that done, you could have gain small boost to loot per champion. That boost could be daily boost or weekly. It’d further encourage masses of people to do events, explore dungeons, jumping puzzles, just to have increased loot for area. It can be even rewarding for “explorers” player type. Generate random buffs which can be obtained by random exploring.
There’s a lot of stuff that can be done to bring people back from LA to every single zone in the game. Those are really quick, simple things.How that “increased loot system” would work? Well, kind of similar to Horde chain quests in Stonetalon Mountains currently. For those who haven’t played WoW, as you progress through quests, you get kind of a map title, progressing with chain quest. From dunno, sergant to general or something http://www.wowhead.com/spell=78054. Adding similar thing to GW2 system would be plainly amazing.
As you progress through the area, you start to receive Hero Points. After certain amount of points, you hop on another rank.
Rank names could vary from different areas. Examples:
-Slayer of the Branded->Vanquisher of the Branded->Cursed’s Bane
-Watchman of Orr->Gravedigger->Undeath’s SalvationWith each rank, total loot should be improved, chances for unique things, money and karma awarded from DEs, quality of things from karma vendors, vendors overall higher. But also mob scaling should be greater for the player. Just simple scaling like in DEs with damage, hp etc.
Now, these ranks could be for whole area (Shiverpeaks, Ascalon, Branded part, Maguuma) or for certain zones (Queensdale, Iron Marches, Caledon Forest) and they would reset every 24h or every week/month (one reset each week should be fine).Unique items obtainable from Champions (affected hardly by rank), zones etc. , should be as I call them – Unique. It means that when some of them should be tradeable, most of cool stuff which can be used cross-characters (unique backpieces, fun stuff, minipets) has to be Account Bound!
Making it daily would make it time-gated but would not stop the grind. Beside you are also forgetting the grind for achievement-points and rewards with the living story.
Beside having an option to grind is not that much of a problem but there should also be other ways and that is sort of missing. If you make specific drops from specific mobs or in a specific area or a specific dungeon and make everything you would possibly want available in such a way then people would have an option to grind or to farm but now it’s just a required grind for gold or other currency.
Big problem is that I lost hope that Anet is even interested in changing this. Been active in the forums for many months now and most stuff never get fixed. It really looks like they are trying to squeeze out the money then can and then move on. The focus is still on selling gems and then the currency grind is a good way because it makes gold important and you can buy gold with gems. Also the LS grind gives them an excuse to put items in the gem-store. They really want became the average F2P game that designs the whole game around there micro-transaction system. That is to bad but they do not seem to be interested in changing that any time soon. As long as they won’t change that (and if the plan is indeed to squeeze out all they can and then move on they have no need nor intention to change that) we won’t see any big changes.
We will now just get another boring grindy episode of the living story. Most likely we will get the Tengu but they are not enough to fix what is broken and they remove Scarlet. Then they day “you see, we listen to the community” while the core problems just stay in.
Its a good game for farmers, since you are not forced to grind Dungeons or Raids to get good gear and most of the stuff can be bought with gold.
That’s more so good for casuals.
Its good for everyone who is not an elitist and thinks only people that do something that they consider as “hard” content has earned good stuff.
Personally i play a lot but i never liked raiding and always hated that i never could get anything of the better stuff in other MMOs even if i played much more than raiders, but i just played the wrong content and so i didn’t earned it.Now thats the difference here, you can play whatever you want the only difference is that it takes maybe longer if you don’t like farming.
Ok so it’s easier in this game. Thats true, the grind is pretty brainless. However you are now forced to do a brainless grind to get your items. Why would it be fine that a brainless grind rewards you but hard content should not reward. Have do disagree if anything then hard content should be rewarding but if there are multiple ways I would also not mind. Problem is that you are now forced to grind.
Its a good game for farmers, since you are not forced to grind Dungeons or Raids to get good gear and most of the stuff can be bought with gold.
Not sure how your sentence fits in with farmers or grinders.
You are forces to grind gold to buy your gear, or grind tokens in dungeons.
Farming items or gear directly however it’s not possible.
Well instead of trinity you get septinity:warrior,mesmer,guardian,thief,elementalist,ranger,engineer.
Yet none of them has a real unique definitive role that is required in any combat situation. You know, like in the trinity you need a tank, you need a healer and you need DPS.
Now as long as everybody dodges enough and deals DPS it’s fine.
If only Warrior was really a required role in stead of just a class and guardian was and thief was and elementalist was and ranger was and engineer was, then it would become very interesting. But they are not, they are different classes that all fulfill the same general role..
Warrior is only easier to deal with PvE contents not that they are required. It is a very important concept you have to understand. Required means a certain class or role MUST present in order to finish the content, tell me which part of the game require a warrior?
Eliminate trinity is to remove the MUST present of healer and tank role completely and break down the needs of tank and healing to every party member. Yes, certain high skill players / party are well understand the mechanics and able to reduces the need od heal and tank, I think this is an issue of encounter generally in PvE. As i can see more different approach Anet is trying and testing around in LS, looks like more interesting encounter and new defined roles is on the way.
Well before we have more refined encounter encourage more different spec other than zerkers, I for one prefer no clear and defined roles rather than any contents that REQUIRES a specific class or role in order to finish. I don’t enjoy elitist or speedrun but i love the casual nature that any player/class combination is a go to any contents.
“Warrior is only easier to deal with PvE contents not that they are required. It is a very important concept you have to understand. Required means a certain class or role MUST present in order to finish the content, tell me which part of the game require a warrior?”
I said IF ONLY Warrior was really… implying it’s not just as all the other classes are not a required role.
I was afraid that sentence was maybe not completely clear but yeah I an trying to say what you are saying.
“Eliminate trinity is to remove the MUST present” However the MUST also means there is an important task for that role. Thats exactly what makes the combat more interesting and requires more teamwork.
Now everybody is a Jack of all trades, master of none.
“I for one prefer no clear and defined roles rather than any contents that REQUIRES a specific class or role in order to finish. I don’t enjoy elitist or speedrun but i love the casual nature that any player/class combination is a go to any contents.”
I don’t see how defined roles (and if you have roles they should somehow be required) would mean elitist or speedruns. I don’t care about both but would love to see roles simply because they make combat more interesting (so less like a speedrun! More a run where you need to plan your approach). I even think speedruns get increased with the elimination of roles because you do not have to wait to find that one role you need but only a few people play. So less waiting is more speed-runs in a day.
Well instead of trinity you get septinity:warrior,mesmer,guardian,thief,elementalist,ranger,engineer.
Yet none of them has a real unique definitive role that is required in any combat situation. You know, like in the trinity you need a tank, you need a healer and you need DPS.
Now as long as everybody dodges enough and deals DPS it’s fine.
If only Warrior was really a required role in stead of just a class and guardian was and thief was and elementalist was and ranger was and engineer was, then it would become very interesting. But they are not, they are different classes that all fulfill the same general role..
(edited by Devata.6589)
I just read an article about Wildstar. A game I am not interested in (just for the record). However I really had the feeling that the guy who was being interviewed referred to GW2 when promoting his game.
“According to Donatelli, that familiarity is intentional. “I hate reinventing the wheel for the sake of saying we did something different,” he says. He used the auction house as an example, emphasizing his desire to tweak familiar models. “We say, ‘This is how auction houses function in many other games, now let’s see how we can add searchability to it and ease of use.’” “
Have to agree on this and adding new stuff as well is not bad bad doing it different just for the sake of it is.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/12/18/wildstar-hands-on-is-innovation-overrated/
No trinity, please.
The trinity is old, tired, and restrictive.
ANet, please do not change things. We don’t need the trinity.
We do not NEED trinity indeed. But we need roles.
Whether that are the trinity roles or other roles I personally don’t care but we really need specific roles.
And yes having roles mean you are restrictive in your own role.. That is what makes things interesting. However as long as you can make all classes you want there is no real restrictiveness, you want to get another tole? Get another class.
(edited by Devata.6589)
I think there is a big difference between farming and grinding (you are mixing the two up in your comment).
Grinding would be repeating the same content, preferably in the fastest easy way to gain some currency or stat (a number). That can be a level, an AP, gold or tokens. With gold that can also mean you grind simply for general good drops (so indirectly).
Farming on the other hand is going for something specific. That can be running around to get your 50 iron ore to make what you need.. however I must say this example is a tricky one because at what point can you start seeing crafting material as a currency?
But also farming a single type of mob in a specific place because you know it can drop an specific item or a mount or a mini or whatever you are looking for can be considered farming, or doing a dungeon because a boss in it can drop a specific item you want
So where farming is more a specific search for a specific item, grinding is more a general grind for a currency or stat (like farm trains or grinding achievements for AP’s).
Personally I do like farming because it keeps items rare (items drop from chap trains will be less rare because grinders will get it but are just doing it for the money so sell it while farmable items require a specific search so are not just dropping to general grinders) and when farming there is are more specific goal in stead of the general goal of upping a number like in grinding.
Grinding on the other hand I find dull, boring.
Now GW2 is grinders heaven, everything people do now is pretty much grinding (see LS, grind for achievements and reward (LS rewards are more grindy then farming because it’s really trying to get all the rewards before they are gone, so you are not so much doing it for the rewards as doing it to keep up)) and it even sort of force you into grinding because gold and other currency is so important in this game, reason for that is that you can’t really go for a item directly (farming it) so you need to buy it. It pretty much has no farming at all, and the little it has is for 90% temporary or time-gated.
So to answer your question:
No, GW2 has nothing to offer for farmers.
However, GW2 is the most grindy MMO I have even seen. So it’s grinders heaven.
I noticed a lot of people in GW2 have all the old shcool MMO definitions wrong. I met a really nice young guy who was helping me in GW2 by taking time to show me around and explain the system and kept using terms like CONTROL and UTILITY and it took me awhile that what he considers utility and control is different than what me and my old school MMO players meant by it. I tried to explain to him that I understood what all he meant though and explain that he is using utility in place of healing or support and control was not real control as he was referring to it as dodge and locking down a player or NPC in a fight. He was super excited about GW2 and assumed all other MMOs did not have these things and I can only guess he got his info from GW2 fanboys because he never played any other MMOs. I tried to assure him these things in GW2 are nothing new and that you have all these features minus the dodge in other MMOs and even more skill branching and customization. I don’t think he got it though. SO anyways I guess my point is that when Fanboys skew others perspective then it does not help them.
Someone who disagrees with you is not a fanboy. Just a person with a different opinion, and ours are not absolutes.
Believe it or not, there are actually people playing GW2 that dislike the so-called trinity not just because they haven’t played “enough” MMOs, but just because they do.
On another subject, I disagree that non-trinity makes combat all about DPS-it is all about specific encounters, and most of these were designed when the system was rather new (and in a way, it STILL is new.) Surely there must be ways to improve the current system without adding any trinity-esque elements and discouraging all offense/no defense stats “requirements” for groups.
I think what many people are saying is not that taking out the trinity is bad. I personally don’t mind. And it also does not mean non-trinity makes combat all about DPS.
As long as you replace it with other roles (something I expected when Anet was telling about how they had no trinity) that it’s fine. The problem is that that did not really happen in GW2.
So they did end up with pretty much only DPS and a combat where you are just smashing keys but are not required to do your specific role and so work as a good team. It also means that another class gives you totally other task what is very nice for the variation.
However I must say I also do not have everything against the trinity, main problem I hear people about is waiting for a healer or a tank. Not something I ever had a problem with, I just queued up and did my thing in PvE but I guess that if you are somebody who likes to farm dungeons all the time that that is a real problem.
I geuss that when they would have replace it with other roles you might still have the problem of having to wait for a not so popular role you need in your part. So yes they fixed that problem but it resulted in duller combat, and people can say it’s really not but GW2 is pretty much the only game I play in windowed mode while also doing other stuff because the game simply allows it (easy) and the combat is kinda boring.
Anyway, no non-trinity is not a problem as long as you still have specific task / roles however GW2 ended up with a system that did not really have specific roles and task and that is what many people dislike..
Excited? Not at all in relation to the MMOs with the state they’re in. MMOs these days tend to be nothing but a grind, if people want to waste their time grinding for something at the end of the day that’s totally worthless, more power to them.
I’d like to see an MMO like what this was supposed to be before they did a ‘U’ turn.
GW2 promised to be a refreshing change, instead they just jumped on the band wagon and followed other companies with the grind. Grind = less fun but tends to keep people occupied as they’re in pursuit of their useless gear.
buying gems is more likely to result in more content based on people buying gems. Like the living story, temporary stuff, hairstyles that are available in the gem-store, new mini-packs in the gem-store and so on.
Even if they add something like raids and fractals without en expansion, that sort of content will not have the focus when they use gem-sales to generate income. So if you want to support Anet based on such content you should buy the most expensive expansion (if they release one) not buy gems. That results in exactly the opposite of what you want.
A subscription fee plan is the best option for an mmo. Wildstar is probably going to have a lot of awesome new permanent content very soon after launch since they chose the sub option.
But new mmo’s should just stop copying the same old $15 price and make it cheaper like $10 a month.
Big negative about sub-based is the constant clock above your head so no I also don’t like sub-based. I prefer it if the developer generates it’s money with regular expansion. An expansion every year / year and a half should work. In a way thats how most non-mmo games make there money. Difference is that with those games it are not just expansions but also sequels, in an MMO it would all be expansions
~
About 2 and 3. Thats something on my list that is NOT good. The events are nice but are not coming close to be able to give what traditional quest CAN give you. I say can because I am not talking about the kill x wolfs quests. They send you all over the world giving you a real story and sense of completion, what you don’t have with events because they keep repeating. Not saying that events are bad, they are nice as an addition to quest, but not as a substitute.
What they also do if giving you a bound with the NPC’s. You get to know the NPC’s learn why there are doing what they are doing. You learn stuff about there personal live and you can get a nice unique reward from them. Something I am totally missing in GW2 because there are no quest. So now there are many NPCs running around and yes they are talking but I really have no bound with them whatsoever.
So I have to disagree on 2 and 3 where the problem in both cases is the fact that there are no traditional quest in the game.
1 Yes I agree however your sentence makes it seem like it’s the team-play you like (what is not so good in GW2) while you mean they are not in your way like in other MMO’s. That true.
4 I do like the moment system and also that part of the combat. Thats the fast paced you are talking about. I also don’t like to have a heavy focus on the armor but am not sure that thats completely gone in GW2. I do not like the fact that there are no real roles. If it’s the holy trinity or any other system but in GW2 any role seems to be missing. While in a team you still basically all have the same role mainly watching out for yourself limited team-play and then it becomes brainless button-smashing very fast. In many cases I while I am ‘fihgting’ in GW2 meanwhile I am watching a video or reading a site because it’s so easy that it’s possible and it’s a little boring. If the combat would be more interested I would not only be required to put all my attention to it but also be we to much engaged in the fight to care about anything else.
5 Partly agree. Lest start by saying that I 100% dislike the the living story and the bi weekly updates but thats because it’s all a grind for achievements, rewards and gold. If it would not be temporary, so no temporary achievement, rewards or other content but everything would stay one of the main problems with the living story would be gone. You say Anet knows that but they clearly don’t see it as a problem. Else they could have easely stopped with all the temporary stuff.
However even if everything would be permanent, one of the problems is that the whole idea from a business standpoint around the living story is gem-store sales. GW2 has become one of the many games that generates money with micro-transactions. The living story is meant to keep people busy and buying gems, thats also the main reason why it’s temporary. Good excuse to put temporary items in the gem-store and so on. So while the idea of continuously getting new content by itself is not a bad thing you have to see the bigger picture. With a focus on expansions there would be less bad game-desicions that we see now resulted from a gem-store focus. Keeping that in mind then no I do not like the many patches.
6 Yes they did make some progress there. Partly fixing what they did wrong before.
7 Also a good think but you are now cheering about something they fix.. so they did wrong the first time. It should have been like that from the beginning.
8 Also nice but again a fix.
9 I don’t think that rng for drops is bad, I even miss it for many thinks in GW2. Now you grind for gold and then buy items what is really boring and makes the game gold-driven. But I don’t see where the grind is gone. You can get stuff with crafting, yeah first grind for gold or the crafting materials, then grind your way up to level 400 / 500 and then you can make your item. Or you grind your way to dungeons to get the tokens or you grind for gold to buy it. Still a grind but a more boring grind the the normal rng imho.
I feel I can’t get excited about what’s coming up for next year, esp. when the first LS update is a four-part Scarlet marathon. This alone kind of nullifies my hopes.
I know they have to write her out of the story, but I’d just prefer she get dropped like the bad idea she was, and left behind with a big “?” over her head.. that being said it just opens up debate as to where she’s gone and if we’ll see her again. So I guess we have to have closure on that aspect of the game.
Asides this, I’m waiting for Anet to make good on some very long-held promises that they still haven’t delivered on. The hottest topics in these forums from this year should be the key, I shouldn’t have to say anymore.
Bottom line is this game still needs a LOT of improvements, most of which are or have been mentioned in the CDI’s already.
I don’t think Scarlet is the big problem. It’s the nature of the living story. That will not become better when scarlet is gone and it will even not become better when the living story is about some dragon. If it did people would complain about how the lore of that dragon would get wasted.
By focusing on Scarlet so much you risk that next year she will be gone but the real problem, the nature of the living story continues making whatever the new story is about just as bad.
They have to rethink the whole LS content, not just Scarlet. However, like I said in my previous post. For investors the living story might just do what it needs to do. Squeeze out as much money as possible as fast as possible.
I’m cautiously optimistic, rather than excited. I’ll be happy to see the back of Scarlet in March, which is pretty early in the year. Not that I dislike her personally as a villain (she does what she needs to do), but I’m tired of hearing about her from other people who don’t like her.
As for those other games…all MMOs launch in a less than optimal condition and players often don’t give those MMOs a chance to fix what’s wrong. It happened here too. One could argue that decisions made by Anet were based on people leaving without really giving them a chance to get the game in order. And while you might argue that that should be done before launch, almost no MMO has been able to. It’s too expensive and takes too long and can’t be done without players playing anyway.
So yeah, those other games will launch, be filled with bugs, will have too little content, people will blow through them, and people will leave. They’ll come back to a game that’s more stable and has more content because the game is older.
Always seems to happen. People are always leaving their game for new games…but the old games are mostly still around. Someone must be playing them.
Lol, if that would be the case every MMO would been ‘successful’ because also the new MMO’s will be ‘old’ MMO’s at some point. So why would GW2 the ‘The old MMO’ people are returning to. And isn’t it true that even now you might consider GW2 ‘old’ many people are still complaining about not having enough of content. Something you say ‘the old mmo’s’ have while the new mmo’s don’t.
Not saying you are completely wrong. But what you are saying hangs together with the questions ‘what mmo will be the WoW-killer’. Because what you say indeed happens but then with WoW being the ‘old mmo’ people keep returning to. and for as long as there is no mmo’s that will keep people attached to them the ‘old mmo’ they keep returning to seems to be WoW, not any of those other mmo’s.
BTW, the only upcoming mmo that I think has the potential to keep people bound to it is EQN. Not saying it will but it has the potential. GW2 also had that potential but they did not make use of the potential, if EQN will we will see about a year / 2 years after it’s release.
Then again, maybe the big problem is that the investors are looking for something else then the customers? I prefer games with a long live-spawn but imo the idea behind an mmo’s should be a long live-spawn. So from an investors point of view that should be a long-term investment. However, it looks like they see it more as a short-term investment. Invest money in it and then squeeze as much out of it within 2 to 3 years time. I think if thats the goal from an investors viewpoint GW2 might be a success.
If they would see it as a long-term investment it would be different. They invest in the initial game and a few years later on release they get a there investment back. Time / money wise that would not be great however the next expansion require less input but a higher return, and then the next expansions again and so on. It’s a little higher risk because it will only work if the game is successful, however because the game is then designed around that idea it’s also more likely to be successful on the longer run. And on the longer run the return value for the investor will be much higher. But then again, if you can invest for the short run and get much money and then do it again with the next game (See GW2 and then Wildstar, same investors) and then again and again it might be even better until people stop buying. WoW did proof that the long term will still be better for a single company but many mmo’s are not build by the same company that invest the money.
WoW is but GW2 has Ncsoft to pay the bill and get the income. Maybe when looking for a new successful mmo it’s also wise to search for a developer that releases it’s own game.
Looking at some of the more successful mmo’s does seem to back that up. Eve online is develop by the company that also publish it, WoW same story, Everquest, same story and funny enough Lineage seems to be developed by NCsoft themselves.
Excited? Not at all in relation to the MMOs with the state they’re in. MMOs these days tend to be nothing but a grind, if people want to waste their time grinding for something at the end of the day that’s totally worthless, more power to them.
I’d like to see an MMO like what this was supposed to be before they did a ‘U’ turn.
GW2 promised to be a refreshing change, instead they just jumped on the band wagon and followed other companies with the grind. Grind = less fun but tends to keep people occupied as they’re in pursuit of their useless gear.
buying gems is more likely to result in more content based on people buying gems. Like the living story, temporary stuff, hairstyles that are available in the gem-store, new mini-packs in the gem-store and so on.
Even if they add something like raids and fractals without en expansion, that sort of content will not have the focus when they use gem-sales to generate income. So if you want to support Anet based on such content you should buy the most expensive expansion (if they release one) not buy gems. That results in exactly the opposite of what you want.
I know I am, can’t wait to see what Anet have for us in 2014.
I can’t wait. I left the game prior to the 2 week event cycles (back in September 2012) as I was still heavily involved in progression raiding in another game, as well as RL responsibilities. I returned to GW2 just in time for the Mad King events this year.. and was blown away by the LS cycles. I am so looking forward to making up for lost time, as well as seeing what Anet has in store for us in the next year of events!
I love the changing LS events, as it keeps the game fresh with new things to do.. as opposed to an annual expansion and absolute boredom in between. Most games keep my interest for a month after xpac; I complete content, build daily quest reps, get my new raiding BiS tier set, and then I’m out of the game. GW2 stands apart in that matter. I don’t mind that I missed out on the past events prior to this last October (although they looked amazing! and so different from each other) I’m just excited to be able to participate in what has yet to come. I feel the 2 week cycles not only keep the game fresh and exciting, but they also prevent stale content, and create a greater appreciation for the content while it’s live. I hope they keep at it.
You love the LS events however you stopped playing just before they started and are now recently back. Maybe thats the reason that you loved it.. You missed the whole LS events for over a year.
For a few weeks it’s nice but then it becomes a boring never ending grind for achievements, rewards, titles and gold.
Imho GW2 is now in a worse shape then it was on release and main reason for that have been the living story updates.
You like to collect all mini’s? Well to bad, you cant anymore and about “I am so looking forward to making up for lost time” well sorry but also that is impossible because it was all temporary.
There where some things I did not like on release but I expected that that would soon come.
Missing guild tools being one of them. But the game became more and more gold-driven (meaning you farm gold and then buy your item because you can’t ‘farm’ the item yourself) and many temporary living story stuff. After Wintersday last year the only read good thing we got was SAB imho and that was meant as a joke and is really a separate part of the game. Funny enough I did read somewhere that GW2 won an ‘expansion prise’ because of that addition.
Also the fact that they went for a micro-transaction based income resulted in many bad game-design decisions, the reason got interested in GW2 is because I don’t like subscription but I also don’t like the F2P games that generate income with micro-transactions because of it’s effects to the game. GW1 had a good name as generating income with expansions. I was long looking forward to (and expecting) an expansion but I am not even sure about that. They really have to come with something good and pretty much undo all they did wrong to get me exited about an expansion.
different crowd of players really.
eso = monthly subscription
wildstar = monthly subscriptionarch age = errr trionworld game. not sure will have monthly subscription or not. lets see. defiance, no monthly sub. rift = free to play.
after some googling it seems like arch age will have monthly subscription.
so all 3 games that u mentioned will have monthly subscriptions.
no contest.
people will still play guild wars 2 due to no monthly subscription.
Wildstar will have an option for a subscription but you also get playtime when buying gems and can earn ingame game-time. If that is really easy that you can see it as a F2P game, else at best i’s F2P with the requirement to buy gems.
Not sure what google you are using but archeage will most likely be F2P. It was sub-based in Japan or China but then had to go F2P. Because of that it will now also go F2P in Russia and there they said that would be the payment-system they would be using here as well.. However that has not officially be announced yet.
Then there is EverQuest Next (most likely released a little later then the other MMO’s but still 2014) that will also be F2P.
I think EQN has the biggest change in general of getting many players for a longer period but you never know. Success not guaranteed.
If GW2 would have a similar system as GW1 where they generated income by selling expansions then it would indeed be unique but generating money with mico-transactions is not unique and it always effects the game in a negative way.
Yes it is time for an expansion however a year of LS has not done much good to GW2 and the Tengu by itself will not be able to safe GW2. It really needs a huge expansion taking on mistakes that have been made in the core. Making it really an open world (no instanced maps), putting the rewards, mini’s and other items really into the world and not behind some general random drop but linked to specific content or mobs or whatever. Putting in mounts, making chairs sittable (and adding such features) and going to a model where they indeed generate income with expansions so they are not forced to make the same negative decisions again..
However you can wonder if the companies behind GW2 are even interested in that. While imho you should see a MMO as a long term investment it looks more and more that the companies behind GW2 see it very different. They try to squeeze out as much money as they possibly as then can and then move on to the next game.
(edited by Devata.6589)