Guild Wars 2

TexZero.7910:

Or we can just move completely away from this notion that RNG = Problem solved.

RNG itself is a problem. Give people more options to set goals and have those goals be the deciding factor in getting the rewards. A branching system that says oh your want x item ? Cool go do Y, Z, Q and you’ll have it.

No RNG at all will not be an option but having a branching system for part of the items would indeed work very well. Most MMO’s have that the way you describe it. It are called quest / quest-lines.

Finnway.2183:

Essence Snow.3194:

I agree that gold>everything else is an issue in this game. I do not agree however the solution to it is to make more binded items.

When an item can be bought and sold in the Trading Post its drop rates have to be balanced around that concept. If the drop rate is too high then the item becomes too common and the price drops. This means that, no matter the drop rate of an item, it will almost always be cheaper/more time efficient to buy it off the TP than to farm it yourself.

No that is not true. When done correctly the gold-price would not be lower, possibly even higher. Lets just take a very basic example. A red mini moa drops from a group of moa’s in a remote area in Brisban Wildlands (game could use some remote area’s but thats another discussion). There are about 25 Moa’s and by running in a circle you can keep killing them. The drop-change is 1/1000 (rares with 1/10.000 should also work). If you really want that mini then farming that area is an option. One in a while you go there and kill moa’s for a while. Eventually you will get the drop. Changes that somebody who is not going for the mini-moa gets it is very slim because he will not be killing moa’s there all the time and thats the only place where they drop. Somebody who likes to farm gold will also not be likely to go there killing one moa after the other for hours and hours hoping to get the mini so he can sell it. He is more likely to go somewhere we he will see more progress when farming gold.

That means that farming the red mini-moa is an real option while the moa that end up on the TB will be extremely low and so there gold-price will be extremely high.

Now this example requires a brainless grind of killing moa’s and that should be one of the ways to get special items but this can be done in many ways. However it proofs that the gold-price does not always has to be lower then the time it would take you to farm the item.

That only happens when you can not specifically go and farm one item (like you could in my red mini moa example) but all such items drop random from some general place / group (like champions) that people will then all farm for the gold. So the way it works now in GW2. Then people don’t get the item they specifically want so you can many items in the TP making the gold-price drop.

1 Remove the cash-shop (or at least 99% of it) and let Anet make money with a focus on expansions. (and then in expansions we can put thinks like guild-halls and so on.. but that are later addition for those expansion. Not for the current game)

2 Undo all negative effects the gem-store had. So place mini’s in the game. Stop the currency driven gameplay by letting you get items as drops or quest rewards and so on. Same for all type of items like skins and craft recipe’s, not only mini’s. But also fixing issues like guild-options that now had no priority because it did not benefit the gem-sales, time-gated content, putting hair-styles in the game at a barber for a few silver per hair-cut and so on

3 Remove the living story as it is. There might still be a little story ongoing to the next expansion but nothing with temporary achievements, rewards and other temporary content.

(The first 3 together should also mean the end of the endless grind in this game)

4 Make is really an open word so no instanced maps.

5 Include traditional quest / quest-linesin the whole world.

6 Include fun-crafts like taming beast (like you can really influence there look by crossing different looking moa’s and so on), engineering craft (see WoW), and many other fun-crafts.

7 Include mounds and other fas-travel options (ships and so on) while removing way-points.

This post is like a nice conclusion of the items I have been discussing on the forums. Not 100% complete but it will do.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

Devata.6589:

Jornophelanthas.1475:

I am getting tired of people prescribing their own taste to all other players and the game developers.

I get it. You don’t like Scarlet. Thank you for your opinion. Goodbye.

Please stop pretending that your opinion entitles you to tell ArenaNet how to run their game. (Yes, Guild Wars 2 is their game, not yours.) Feel free to leave.

People payed for it so yeah that gives them the right to give there vision on the subject. They pay so they partly own.

And why do you think you are entitled to prescribing your own taste to all other players? Because thats what you are doing with this post.

BTW, ArenaNet is only the content creator. Not the owner. People here are owner of a copy of the game and telling the content creator what they dislike about the content.

No, ArenaNet is the sole owner of the game. We just own a license to play their content. In no way does possessing a GW2 account confer any right to dictate what the content should be. (Except to the extent that ArenaNet is willing to listen to suggestions.) You must be confusing game licenses with shares in the company.

What annoys me about these Scarlet-bashing posts is three things:

1. Some of the most vocal Scarlet-bashers (which happens to include the OP) claim that they are speaking for everyone when they proclaim their opinion. Let one thing be clear: I do not give permission to these people or anyone on this forum to speak on my behalf. My opinion is my own, thank you very much. I am not the only one in this thread who has complained about this.

2. Every single one of the Scarlet-bashers who starts a thread, believes that what they have to say has not been said before. Fifty anti-Scarlet threads later, I highly doubt that premise. Also, I am not overly impressed or convinced by arguments that consist of little more than the words “everyone knows”, “it is public knowledge”, or “obviously”. These are all variations of “I say that X is true. Therefore X is true. And therefore, everybody now agrees with me.” This is just plain bad argumentation.

3. This entire topic and all threads like it (beyond perhaps the first) is a gross overreaction. Scarlet is a fictional character, not a gross injustice or a violation of civil rights. She is not even a violation of a business agreement (because we paid to play a game with no say about the content). We are talking about a fictional character that may not be to everyone’s taste. Nobody should be fired over this. No planned releases should be changed over this. No civil wars should be started over this. Crying to the heavens about this issue and posting demands without offering any constructive feedback is not a mature way of stating your case. It certainly will not accomplish anything.

No, ArenaNet is the sole owner of the game. NCsoft you mean. Yes on paper but in the end, if you pay you have something to say. It’s that easy.

I personally don’t complain about scarlet (well only about he fractal one) but complain about the living story as total. However people paid for something and then they get this stuff. As you can see many many people (they almost never say everybody.. but your complain here is about the many post about this.. so that by itself proofs that many people complain about it so making the claim many people don;t like it seems a pretty accurate claim) don’t like it so if that is your measurement you can say is crappy content or a crappy story.

Well then you can expect the people who paid hoping to get good content to complain.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

I am getting tired of people prescribing their own taste to all other players and the game developers.

I get it. You don’t like Scarlet. Thank you for your opinion. Goodbye.

Please stop pretending that your opinion entitles you to tell ArenaNet how to run their game. (Yes, Guild Wars 2 is their game, not yours.) Feel free to leave.

People payed for it so yeah that gives them the right to give there vision on the subject. They pay so they partly own.

And why do you think you are entitled to prescribing your own taste to all other players? Because thats what you are doing with this post.

BTW, ArenaNet is only the content creator. Not the owner. People here are owner of a copy of the game and telling the content creator what they dislike about the content.

I think it is interesting to see there are people that feel so strong (in a negative way) about Scarlet. Do you guys really follow that story so much. I think the whole living story boring and yes it’s annoying when this one NPC turns up all the time, especially when she even turned up in the reactor. However that was mainly because they had to involved that stupid living story even in the fractal patch, not so much the scarlet figure itself.

The whole living story is a boring excuse to put more temporary things in the game trying to get people to keep playing and spending money on the gem-store.

So if the whole living story is so boring why care about one NPC in that story. You say, scarlet needs to go, I say the living story in the form it exists now (content / achivement / reward / temporary wise) needs to go.

TheJokester.4672:

content motivates me to play not gear in vertical progression changing my look motivates me to play add new and differing skins with new content and you will keep MANY players and gain many too I could be called a skin kitten I always wanted/want what I think looks cool but its the content I have to do to get it that will keep me and atm gw2 is grind fest champ training that kitten es me off and makes me want to break my freaking monitor and commit suicide

Anet did the same with much of the content. In the beginning most could be done on every character (once per character per day) and now much has been converted to once per account per day.

I didn’t even use most of the coins I did get from SAB 2 so reward was not the main reason I went in there but it for sure helps to give the content some extra reason to go do that content and being rewarded for it.

And then there still is the problem of this game being currency driven and gold being the most important currency. But going on a lower level alt gets you less gold and in that way punish you for doing that.

Tommyknocker.6089:

I don’t collect them either nor will I until they become more than just fluff (polymock).

For me they are a nice addition to the game only because ANet makes some mad $$$ off them and thus we get the benefit in patches and content.

They make Anet cash-shop cash. That results in patches based on making more cash-shop cash and that so far has resulted in mainly patches that made the game worse.

But yeah you do hit a good point. For Anet they are nothing more then income and that sucks because, because of that they haven’t put the mini’s really so much in the world but mainly behind a currency grind or in the living story. Both extremely boring. There is no fun in collecting them this way. And then I am talking about the process of collecting them, not so much having them.

You know doing that quest-line that you know of will drop you this cool mini, of farming the heg out of a mob in some area, running in circles killing them and everything hoping the nest kill will drop him, or doing a dungeon every time hoping he drops. And even a craft leveling up this one more level so you know you can make this one cool mini.

Anet totally destroyed to fun in the process of collecting and the only way to fix that is by putting all the mini’s in the game. Something I don’t see them doing.

It’s now only still fun for people who just like to have the collecting complete and don’t mining grinding gold / living story and paying cash for it. Where is then the pride of having a mini? Having a full collecting just shows you love doing brainless, boring, repeating task.

What I also don’t like at all is that in your bank every mini has it’s own tab. That totally takes away the supprise of finding a new mini. Having a tab for mini’s is fine but that should simply have a general slot and every time you get a new mini a extra slot becomes available.

They really destroyed a awesome aspect of many mmo’s in there quest for money.

It’s also this sort of effects why I totally dislike F2P games because there focus on the cash-shop always results in this sort of bad game-decisions. From a game-point. I was interested in GW2 knowing that in GW1 Anet did not use a focus on the cash-shop to generate income but they had a focus on expansions. To bad they has to go the way of micro-transactions with GW2. It destroyed many elements of the game.

Czinczar.3786:

Danikat.8537:

Funny, I’ve been meaning to make a topic for mini collectors to discuss their favourites and why they like them so much.

But you could say the same for most of the other rewards. I did the new story instance today and I got yet another back item skin. I have 5 characters and even I can’t use all the back skins I’ve gotten as rewards.

What’s the alternative? Give us something useful that’s not available elsewhere and people who missed out will complain. Give us something that is available elsewhere and it’s not much of a reward because most people who want it would already have it.

At least with minis people who do like them have a use for more than one or two and many of them can be sold if you’re not interested. (Personally I think they should all be tradeable so people who don’t like them can at least get some gold, but that’s a different topic.)

I don’t understand why people who miss things should have a right to complain ? The stuff is here for 2 or 4 weeks. and if you are talking about people who jump into the game 3 or 4 years after its release, then they have even less the right to complain.

And I am sure Anet can come with ideas for rewards, it’s not just like mini’s were the only possible reward. Give us an inventory slot for one char as reward for example. Give use for example something that is introduced in the gemstore…

Bottom line, for me, if you give me a mini as reward, I feel there is no reward at all.

Yeah they should not complain. Everybody knows that people who play an MMO’s are not allowed to have lifes or do some other games for a while.

Czinczar.3786:

Hello !
Am I the only one who totally doesn’t care about minis ? I mean they are totally useless and aesthetically speaking they look like nothing. The problem is that we are receiving minis as rewards for living story achievements, as if EVERYONE wanted only minis, and I would love to have a choice between minis and something else as reward.

I don’t like minis, are you in the same situation ? Do you find strange players who want to have them all ? Speak up !

I loved collecting mini’s in all the mmo’s I played. But that stopped in GW2. Collecting mini’s is mainly a gold-grind and / or a grind against time. There is no fun in collecting mini’s in GW2.
BTW thats the same for about anything you can collect in GW2. They made ‘collecting’ not fun.

Reason behind it is the way they try people to buy gems. That results in game-design decisions that ruined this whole part of the game.

nirvana.8245:

Seveleniumus.5973:

I’m really tired of reading all these threads of endless complains how gw2 is not alt friendly. All currencies are account bound, you don’t need to level for pvp, you’re up scaled in WvW, we have down scaling system in PvE, we have experience scrolls, we have tomes of knowledge, we have scrolls of knowledge, now we got account bound fractal level and soon – account bound WvW levels, how is that not alt friendly?
In many MMO’s when you create a new character, you start from SCRATCH, sure it can always be more alt friendly and it is definitely getting there, in any case, at least for me, this is one of the most alt friendly games I have ever played.

Make it so Laurels are acquired on a per character basis, not an acquirement per account over time, and I’ll stop complaining

Why only laurels. All jumping puzzles including the WvW ones and basically all other stuff you can do should be character base.

In addition remove the gold-driven (or currency-driven) game-play. Because gold is everything and you get better drops so more gold on lvl 80 chars.

Changing those two thinks would help a lot to make the game alt friend. It’s not now.

One specific example of how the game became less alt-friendly.
SAB. The first time you could do it with all your characters and get rewarded for them all. So I levels all my alts in SAB to the max. All having 99 lives, all weapons and unlocks.
Then SAB came back and they changed it to only reward you once per account per day. Needless to say that I did not level all my alts that time. Only my main is has everything from world 2 unlockt. My alts only that from world 1.

The game started alt friendly but has become less and less alt friendly overtime. Sadly the general quality of the game has gone down overtime.

nehezbegar.1065:

It is the matter of taste. For instance, i don’t find WoW zones atmospheric at all, but as we talk about games i really like the feeling of The Witcher 2 zones (as we speak about games in general and not MMO only)

Personal taste is for sure an aspect but that does not mean that there are thinks that will help an atmosphere in general. A game like WoW is not so popular by pure luck. And while not the only element, atmosphere is for sure one of the thinks that helps making a game popular.

Galen Grey.4709:

~

You are also referring to the mini’s that you can get with currency’s. The ones I am referring to are not even that common in the living story, Molten facility being the main thing. Maybe the way you can get them with Wintersdays and SAB but thats about all.

Trust me. Collecting such items (and for the sake of argument I just focus on the mini’s here) and fun crafts is what I did in most MMO’s. It’s what I loved to do and it’s something I silly can’t do in the same way in GW2. Trust me, I tried by the currency grind is simply not my thing. And the fact that it’s time-limited also means I can’t do it in my time but need to do it in Anets time. Do you miss something then thats pretty much the end. I farmed the heck out of MF but never got the mini or the backpack as an example. I could still get them but it would be yet another currency (gold in this case)grind.

You are talking about the fact that you can collect mini’s. Yes you can! I am talking about the way you can collect them. We are really talking about different things here.

Most of your examples are currency grind (like the Halloween mini’s). Fact that you take those as examples proofs that we are talking about something else and in a way proof my point. It’s almost all a currency grind so you are grinding gold and yes to then buy the mini but you are not doing a dungeons or whatever in the hopes of getting the mini to drop. That last thing is what I consider fun. Grinding currency to buy it not.

About the toxic mini’s I didn’t even know that. It doesn’t even matter because I gave up on collecting mini’s a long time ago because of how boring it is, but yeah that sort of drop would then indeed be the type of drops I talk about. However it also shows how the temporary stuff does not count. I want to go hunt for a mini when I feel like it not when Anet feels like it. If I decide today to go for that mini I still can but it’s yet another gold grind. Same for all the other mini’s you might have missed during the living story.

It’s just not even close to fun like this to collect mini’s. At least not for people like me and seeing the many complains about the living story I am not the only one. But then we get into the temporary nature of living story again so lets keep it with that.

“No its not, no game that I am aware of has some sort of specific gameplay just to collect minis, you’re always doing sometime else be it killing mobs, farming dungeons. just cause you go through an intermediary step like laurels or getting achievements really change anything? “

Yes is changes EVERYTHING.
For me at least. That is what I have been trying to say to you during the last multiple comments. That changes everything! From being fun to being a boring grind. And then the time-gated / temporary nature of the living story makes it even worse.
In those mmo’s where they drop I had fun doing it. Here it’s not even neutral, it’s not fun at all doing that! And so I am not doing it anymore with the exception of a few collections or few mini’s that I really like. But collecting them to get a collection no way. Thats (for me) not fun like this so I stopped doing it and so thats part of end-game thats now missing.

Oow and trust me, I am not an exception to the rule!

And it as nothing to do with being able to lose or not being able to collect everything. Take WoW as examples. I knew I would never get the mini’s from the first 2 collectors edition and not the one in there cash-shop (just a few) and the ones from blizzcon and the ones from some card game. So there was a collection of mini’s I would never be able to get. Easy, you take them out of the equation. But having a new mini every few weeks you need to grind (with currency) or else you will not get him and so getting less and less of a complete collection Is a big difference.

When grinding currency (what you need to do to get the mini’s) you are pretty much forced to do specific things the get the most currency. Then you can say.. well you can also do the thinks you like and get the gold like that to buy the mini’s, maybe it takes a little longer but you can get the gold like that. But guess what I think it fun. Going into the world to collect those mini’s.

Doing that dungeons and every-time getting that feeling of will it drop or not is what I love. And so you want some more sure of a drop you do a quest-line to get a mini and so on.

nehezbegar.1065:

In my opinion, the atmosphere is what GW2 does right. This game has one of the most beautiful crafted worlds in the game industry, considering their artstyle and how maps were built

“This game has one of the most beautiful crafted worlds in the game industry, considering their art-style and how maps were built” I agree on that part. I was purely taking about the atmosphere. You can have a beautiful map without atmosphere. And there are for sure places, spots where there is an atmosphere like obviously the spots you are also linking screen-shots from. But overall the whole maps and the world does not have that feeling.

Maybe I need more to create that feeling then some other people do?

Morrigan.2809:

I have a lot of screenshots and I have many favorite spots here are just some
some of them are very old some of them are newer.
If GW2 does anything right imo it is atmosphere.

There are some very atmospheric spots and moments. I won’t deny that. But i think think the overall atmosphere in a map in the world is lacking. Funny enough multiple of the pictures you have there are using effects I talked about. Night, smog, lightning. For example the first and the thirth picture and those are indeed extremely atmospheric.

I also like picture 7 and 8 for it’s atmosphere. One of them is also at night (and I am not even the biggest fan of dark games, but I do look for atmosphere) and picture 7 playes nicely with the colors.

However I mainly see Tyria as picture 7. Thats a extreme beautiful spot and while there are multiple spots like that overall you can say the whole world is very beautiful but while beautiful I can’t that that spot has much atmosphere and thats what I feel in most maps and the whole world.

Traveling can also give you that atmospheric that I tried to show in my little ‘story’ but because off all the loading screens and the fact that all type (similar looking) of zones are put together thats also less the case in GW2.

Draknar.5748:

Devata.6589:

No it does not count for what I am talking about and besides even if it would count there still isn’t much of what I was talking about in the living story / temporary content. Just a few. So it’s a little bid nonsense to keep on going about that.

Why it does not count I said in the previous post.

Well I reject your reasoning. Good day, sir.

That’s possible. But fact is that I can not now go into the world and (lets for the example only take mini’s) do a dungeons to get that mini that drops from it. Then go farm moa’s in a specific area so it drop’s a mini-moa, then farm two bosses to get there mini (there is One from tequatl) then do a quest to get yet another mini and so on keeping me busy multiple days (in total maybe years) while leveling in the mean while.

Thats what I was talking about and thats not possible. So reject it if you want, you can reject the idea the world it round, be my guest. Doesn’t change the facts.

Draknar.5748:

@Devata

Temporary content does count. If you play regularly you wouldn’t have a problem. If you want to be completionist and collect everything but you don’t want to have to play the game regularly and actually miss some LS events, that’s on you, not the game. LS rewards people who play consistently by perpetuating an evolving world and rewarding you for participating. If you didn’t play during the 4 weeks X LS event was going on, too bad you missed out. It’s fair. If you don’t play you don’t get the rewards. If you do play you do get the rewards. I’ve never bought any minis and my collectibles tab is filled with LS minis. I didn’t even farm them, I just played the LS normally and got them.

Your “do it now or never get it” argument is weak. It’s more like “do it now sometime in the next 4 weeks or never get it”. They’ve given plenty of time to complete the LS achievements. If you’ve decided that you won’t even bother simply because there is a time limit (4 weeks), then that’s a choice you’ve made. It isn’t difficult to complete the achievements within that time. It’s not difficult at all, even if you play 1hr/day. You just have to actually do it. You can’t just see that the LS is going on for 4 weeks, completely ignore it, and then complain you weren’t able to get any of the rewards, and that temporary content sucks. Even the most recent LS achievements took 3 run throughs of that tower to complete pretty much everything for the meta. If you can’t be bothered to run through the tower 3 times within a 1 month period, then you don’t deserve any of the rewards in the first place.

No it does not count for what I am talking about and besides even if it would count there still isn’t much of what I was talking about in the living story / temporary content. Just a few. So it’s a little bid nonsense to keep on going about that.

About the 4 weeks. Even if I had half year the time I would still not like it. I want to be able to do it in multiple years if needed.

Why it does not count I said in the previous post.

Galen Grey.4709:

@Devata can we stop this notion that somehow temporary stuff doesnt count?

~

“@Devata can we stop this notion that somehow temporary stuff doesnt count?”
No. The thread is about leveling so and why it’s boring. Part of that is what goals do you have to go for, whats thinks are you doing while leveling. Not only is most of the living story at a fixed level it’s just one thing. You are not farming this mob, then doing that dungeon. Maybe there is a living story at that moment where there is an dungeon that does have a drop change for a mini but maybe not and even if it it’s. Then you can do that now but not tomorrow.

To make it even worse.. the whole idea or collecting mini’s (in this example) gets destroyed by it. You can’t collect them because many of them are out of the game… wellll not completely true. Most where not account bound so you can still farm gold and buy them. But my whole point was that that was not fun. So no we can’t lose this notion that somehow temporary stuff doest count because the stuff you are now referring to (when you do refer to those thinks) are not in the game. Only the one from winterdays is. That has indeed mini’s. Last one didn’t. So they do indeed not count.

BTW the many mini’s you refer to where all some sort of currency. Sab was collecting baubles I thinks. Laurels are also just that. Laurels. So I am not going for the mini, no I am farming dailies to get the laurels I need to buy the mini. Farming achievements and so on. I refer to the currency-driven nature and you keep coming up with other currency examples. It all means I can not go into the world to collect them. I can go into the world to collect a currency and then by it. Thats a big difference.

(you even refer to the birthday mini? Like if you are telling me there are mini’s. Yeah I know that, I was talking about how to ‘farm’ / collect specific items and the fact that the main way to do that is by farming some currency. And tower of nightmare minis??? You mean the ones in the gem-store? So farming gold to by gems to buy them? How does that not include farming a currency??)

The stuff I am referring to that should really be in the open world and dungeons are like the one in the molten facility (but then not in a temporary dungeon) and the one dropping from Tequatl. Those are directly in the world. No currency but something you can specifically work towards in the game world. Such items (being it mini’s, weapons, skins whatever) are almost non-existing in the game.

And the way the system works now makes collecting such items a living nightmare. Do it now or never get it so many people gave up on it totally. In a way they managed to destroy a whole part of ‘end-game’ that way.

Why not collecting on one char. Because in a way you will never have the collecting complete and if you want to have a color on an alt then you might have it on your main but not on your alt. So something that should be fun becomes frustrating.
BTW Anet did plan on making it account-bound. Search inet for the reason why did make is soul-bound.

A long term goal is fun but you need to see progress..

2/2
I don’t say it’s a problem it’s sold so cheap, it’s a problem that you can’t really farm for an item. You can’t really farm for cobalt. It has a very very very rare drop change but from all champions. And champions have a very very very rare drop change from a lot of thinks making them interesting to farm for gold.
But to answer your question. It’s also this mechanism that means it gets sold do cheap. Not that I am saying thats the problem.

If it would be one mob or one group of mobs dropping this item with a rare or very rare drop-chance (so not very very very rare) then you could farm for the specific item. Now you can’t. Now you are sort of forced to farm for gold to buy a item like cobalt.

“The thing that bugs me most of all this is the solution to the problems you mention is take away choice from player hands.”
WHAT?? Taking away choice? I give them choice. You want cobalt.. go farm cobalt by farming those bats flying in that area over there (fill in places). Oow you want Entropy? Go do that dungeon that drops it, you want Komalie’s Sacrificial Blade go farm that boss. And if for some reason you really want to play currency driven (because you don’t like to farm that specific dungeon that drops Entripy or whatever) look at the TP for an item around the same price and go farm that by doing whatever is necessary to do that, cell it and then use the gold to buy Entripy. I give much much much more choice then there is now. Now the only (or main) choice is to farm gold. And yes there are some multiple ways to farm gold but in the end you most likely will just go for the way that gets you there fasted.

With ‘my’ system (it’s in many mmo’s like that so not really my system) there is not really one best way to earn currency. That is because the items you want don’t just drop randomly (a lot.. it can happen) at people who do not want them. That means there prices will always be high and going for the item itself is not only always an option, it will most likely be the ‘cheapest’ way.

You talk about the legendary weapon but thats similar. Many of the ingredients are not really farmable, once again it’s better to farm gold and buy the items. It might be possible when farming indeed 6 months purely looking for those items but thats so long term that it’s not fun.

Reactions are becoming to big like this. But I tried to discuss all the things you mentioned.

Galen Grey.4709:

@Devata

~

1/2

There are plenty of minis to be had from the world itself.
There are about 2. There is the one that drops form Tequatl but you can’t just go for that yourself because you are depending on the people on the map.

I think there is also one that drops in Southsun Cove from a specific type of mobs. Not 100% sure, that might have been temporary.

All the others are living story related (so temporary, not some long term goal you can go for while exploring the world), achievement related (also living story and temporary) or are in the gem-store.

Yes collecting are supposed to take time but by making it character bound the whole idea of collecting them all has been dissolved because how would you do that? Collect them all on all characters? And once again you can not hunt for specific colors so no goals there to really focus on.

I gave Cobalt as an example of a skin (well it’s a weapon but I refer to those things as a skin. You will most likely want that for the looks and then search another item for the stats you need). Yes you can get a armor set from a dungeon by farming a currency named tokens and then buying the set with those tokens and I think thats a nice option. However there is not some specific rare item that also drops in that dungeon. Some weapons, a mini, a skin whatever. You know like that was the case with the molten facility backpack and molten facility mini. That was great with one big negative, it was temporary. And even now Anet did bring that dungeon back in as far as I know they kept that reward out. They really seem to know how NOT to do it. They really did not understand that that was part of the fun of thats dungeon. That was one of the reason people loved that dungeon.

Yeah the dungeon sets are in-game but they are also currency based.

When I talk about recipes I talk about recipes as in them being an item. Not the recipes you can unlock during crafting themselves. And I am not wrong about it, it’s that you are talking about something else as I am. There is no quest-line (there are no quest in general but ok) that I can do to get this awesome recipe rewarded that lets me create that nice skin, cool item (maybe needed for another hard to get recipe), a mini, a mount and so on. There are not really dungeons (some temporary living story dungeons did, however temporary does not count for me because that it totally becomes a grind.. a grind against time!) that reward me such recipe’s and there are not really mobs that drop it. There are some vendors selling it, some that I need to unlock dirt by doing hearth or some that I need to unlock by doing an event (that last one being the best version, coming closes to what I am looking for). However overall those recipe’s are not something special you really want anyway. And then when unlocked you can buy it usually with the currency gold or karma. But heey at least it had an unlock mechanism thats something.

“The market in Gw2 is player driven. If you buy cobalt off the market some player actually went through the trouble of farming the champion got it and sold it.”
Indeed there was a player farming a champion.. With other worlds. There was a player farming gold. Just as I but he got cobalt to drop and I got something else I did not want so I sell my thing I don’t want to him and he sells me cobalt that I wanted so much. As an example.

Better was it if he was just extremely lucky and got it as a drop or if he went out to really farm cobalt. Then again if he did the last thing he most likely wanted cobalt and so would not put it on the TP.

Your example of Entropy and Komalie’s Sacrificial Blade are once again just another randon drop from a champion. Not something one specific boss, one specif dungeon our one group of mobs or one specific area can drop. No just a random very limited drop from a champ. The prices are kinda fair I think, it’s mainly related to the drop-chance. The thing is, people farm champions for money (because they drop all these things) to buy what they want. So many people who do not specifically want those items get them. Then they can sell them for the money. If items would be bounded to specific things it would simply be rares because people would need to be farming for that one item to get it. Less likely somebody is doing that and then even selling it because if he wants that item he will farm for it.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

~

And who made the game currency driven? the developers? no said players on their quest to get the rewards as quickly as possible. Currency in guild wars 2 is used to change on game play for another. IE say you want a named weapon but you dont like farm the charged cores you need so instead you go play fractals which is content you like and use gold to exchange the time you spend playing fractals for charged cores. Only that got abused, players kept going towards the most rewarding content and strived to get as much gold as quickly as possible in order to “game” the system by spending less time playing content x then they would need to play content y for the reward they need. It got so bad that it got to a point where ironically things reversed. With ascended gear it would take a ton less time to pick the materials themselves but people got so used to farming gold that they still did that even though it takes far longer to make the gold necessary to buy the materials you could easily gather in a fraction of the time. Just look at ascended weapons and the basic materials they use. There was a time when a single ancient wood log sold for 10s! With 4 level 80 characters you can gather 144 of them in 30 minutes if you know the route (and there are websites that tell you the route if you dont want to discover it yourself) 14g for 30 mins of gathering is incredible disproportionate. Granted I never farmed but I dont believe there is any content that rewards anywhere close to 14g for 30 mins of game time. (well of course excluding gathering logs and selling them )

Its not that the game is currency driven, it isnt really. Only gem-shop items can only be acquired using gold (excluding real money) and there arent that many, no were close to the many rewards available ingame. Its players who value rewards above all else and aren’t willing to give the reward the time its design to take.

snap~

“And who made the game currency driven? the developers? no said players on their quest to get the rewards as quickly as possible”.

Lol not at all the players. There will always be players going for currency thats true but the game is made currency driven 100% by the developers (ArenaNet but also the other companies that have input into the game and payment model).

There are no mini’s in the world itself. You just need gold or gems to buy them. Dyes don’t drop as color from a mob in the game (you can get a random identified dye as a drop but you can’t really go for a color).

You can’t do a specific dungeon or play in a specific area to get a specific skin. Best way to get most skins are to farm gold and then buy it.

There are barely no recipes in the world available in a similar way. It’s all stuff you buy from vendors or the gem-store or the trading post.

This game is extremely currency-driven and that 100% because of the way it’s designed. Players have nothing to do with it. Players can farm for gold and make there own gamplay currency-driven but they can’t change the game itself.

I would love to go out and do a quest to get a specific mini or maybe a color or.. well take any of the examples. But I can’t because the game is not designed like that!

Also the idea that it would take less time to go for the item itself (what you say) then it is to farm gold is just not true. If I would like Cobalt there is not a place I can go to get it. I can go farm champions but I will have the gold to buy it long before Cobalt drops. Thats the whole problem. It’s currency driven. And you describe it yourself when you talk about how the game is designed and then you blame the players.

Yes there are indeed SOME items that you can farm like the wood in your example (what funny enough in a way is also a currency because you usually want to have the item you create with the wood. But oke I can go with that) but most thinks are just nearly impossible to farm and easy to get by farming gold.

And achievement rewards is also a currency grind.. event worse, time limited currency grind. Currency being the achievements itself. True you are more focused on a goal so I would not mind that so much wasn’t it for it being temporary.

Then making items able to sell for gold is fine. Some should be a sound bound, some should be soul-bound but most should you be able to sell.
However the change of getting a specific rare item to drop by change should be lower then when you are working to get that same item. Thats easily done by making it a rare drop in a area or from a mob and so on. Now it’s just so that some level of mobs (champions) have a bigger change of dropping better loot in general. Taking away farming for items and putting in place a currency driven game.

lordkrall.7241:

saalle.4623:

What they need to add are some more diverse maps,for example this is 1 of rare MMO games that has no dark/goth map with graveyards,map that feels spooky,something like Darkshire in WOW.I love goth and dark ambient but there is no place such as that in GW2….everything is just colerfull and mehhh….only map i really like is Queensdale.

Have you been to Orr?

Here a few images of the map he is talking about.
http://www.eobet.com/blogs/wowscenery/uploaded_images/darkshire-795339.jpg
/\ see how weather really does something for the atmosphere
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TFTNFvgr10I/AAAAAAAAA7c/mJ1GYeEEydQ/s1600/Duskwood+Forlorn+Rowe.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TFTLXerWbWI/AAAAAAAAA7E/_hSCY43POi4/s1600/Duskwood+Tranquil+Gardens+Cemetery.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TFTHmOCmbDI/AAAAAAAAA6k/tUCg45mBRMo/s1600/Duskwood+Abercrombie%27s+Shack.jpg

Also notice how they play with the light and the color to create that atmosphere.

That is all something completely different then Orr.

Well Orr are 3 maps (for now) all sort of the same. Yes they do change the color a bid but thats about it. It are 3 beautifully designed ugly maps. But they still lag atmosphere imho and don’t really add anything to the world atmosphere in total.

They might have done if you would enter such a map just after being in a beautiful map as Kessex Hills and if you would enter a map like Snowden Drifts when having passed true that map.

saalle.4623:

What they need to add are some more diverse maps,for example this is 1 of rare MMO games that has no dark/goth map with graveyards,map that feels spooky,something like Darkshire in WOW.I love goth and dark ambient but there is no place such as that in GW2….everything is just colerfull and mehhh….only map i really like is Queensdale.

Yeah some more is also good. It fits into my list. Diversity and giving a map atmosphere with effects like smoke or lightning.

In Darkshire there you see it’s always dark, there is smoke everywhere. A lot of playing with the light from the houses and torches.

However imagine if they would make a whole area the size of the 5 main area’s (ice, forest (without being a forest), human (little bit of a mix but mainly green) , sandy, Orr) we have now like that. One big continent basically being ghostly, dark and foggy. You would get tired of it just as soon. Now if it would be a mix and you would walk into such an area and later going into another area and so on, then it would be much more interesting.

So mixing it is also important. There has been a lot of talk about new maps that might be released. Crystal desert (all sand), Far Shiverpeaks (all icy). I don’t know about Woodland Cascades but that sounds like you can do multiple things there and the forest maps also seem interesting because you can do much with it. However I am not waiting for a whole new icy area, and I am not waiting for a whole new dry land area.

I would love to see a mix of all those thinks. Sadly giving a few new maps in every of these parts would also not work because they are all far away. Do you don’t travel from one map into the other map (as far as you that can do in GW2 because of it’s instanced maps). Then again, all those area’s have not been visited for many years so who would say Far Shiverpeaks is really still all icy? Maybe part of it has become a nice mix of icy, desert, savana, forest and so on. And then just taking one of those aspects like a forest you can have a bright forest, a dark ugly forest a very open forest or a ghostly forest like you suggest.

Such a nice mix that would give the atmosphere I think is missing at this point.

Galen Grey.4709:

stale.9785:

CES – for a while now I’ve felt that the traditional level system is just flawed. It exists as a roadblock for content in GW2 – and in other games. I’d have done it much differently;

Tutorial, which does the standard “press this to move, this to attack, this is how you use skills. don’t lick the computer. this is a lever, use it. don’t lick that either. stop drooling and click something” that we already get.

Out of tutorial, it should just be “These are traits, this is what they do. You’ll have to do X (buy a book, in this case) to use higher level traits.” and “These are skill points – you can learn a skill from a trainer for 1/3/5/10/30 skill points. Trainers live throughout the world. Elite skills can be captured from dead enemies”

Character growth should have been all in skill acquisition and learning your profession/game mechanics. Also, gearing up and world exploration, of course.

The zones could be kept interesting by having continuous DE style things happening. Centaurs that can actually take over the map, or be fought off, then driven across zones, only to return if the players aren’t diligent. Give us the ability to purge the Orrian menace from the later zones (There’d have to be one area still affected, but we should be able to recover most of the south of the map from the zombies, and restore it)

Bleh – too much like this. Anet, if you make a GW3, hire me as an Idea Hamster™ for it.

EDIT: because I don’t see grammar issues till AFTER I submit. Bleh.

Yes and no.

Yes in that strictly speaking it isnt needed. No because yeah its definitely needed. It all depends how you look, from what point of view. From a player perspective its like you said restrictive. From the game point of view its a necessary evil to ensure a populous world. At launch at least what did people who got to max level do? go back to try out the other zones they missed? some did sure but the vast majority stayed in Orr cause that was what was most profitable. If you had 0 levels I bet the same thing would have happened from the get go. Its natural a lot of players care about the reward more then they do care about the content. Leveling slows them down and thats a good thing even for them because I do believe sometimes you need to protect the players from themselves.

Yes and no.

Yeah people go look for the best rewarding places… IF the world is currency-driven like GW2 is.

If you can find special armor (looks mainly then) or mini,s or mounts, or items or recipes in the rest of the world there are reasons to do those thinks in all of the world.

So then you are not just busy leveling and there is no once best rewarding place to be.

Thats what I talked about in my previous post in this topic.

GW2 however is very currency driven and does place a lot of items not in the world but in the gem-shop or behind a vendor. So then people will all go to those few places that are best rewarding. They farm the gold / currency there and then buy what they want.

And yes I do see how thats bored. Some people however like such a constant grind of gold in one place but many don’t.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Interesting concepts. But, it would really make your posts easier to read, for me at least, if you could change thinks to things. It is confusing sometimes. =)

Done.

p2/2
I would really suggest following this journey and checking the images, especially if you are skeptic. Because I describe a feeling here and thats kitten hard in words.

Lets take a journey from Durator to Winterspring. I will use images for the people who don’t know those maps. So we start in the dry Durator (south). A area with many emptiness but also a little farm here of there.
http://snowwhite86.sn.funpic.de/facesofdeath/assets/images/Durotar2.jpg we continue or journey to the north entering a little settlement http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TGSRT8hfUDI/AAAAAAAABxA/BDcM1P4-SDc/s1600/Durotar+Razor+Hill+(3).jpg there we can help some of the npc’s. We learn to know the people there and so get a bound. It also has it’s crafting area where you can come back to and other stuff to do.

Then we continue north going into a canyon http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TGSPfLfbQgI/AAAAAAAABwY/Bk9Xa_GxC3c/s1600/Durotar+Razorwind+Canyon.jpg
At the other side we are suddenly standing in frond of this huge wall that seems to hold a city http://www.icedragonart.com/wowexplorers/durotar/durotar_landscape26.jpg

We can walk inside but we go left, going from this dry land to a more savanna area, seeing this transition from one to the other taking place. http://tanklikeagirl.com/gallery2/d/24-1/barrens.jpg

We then turn right going into Ashenvale Forest. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TGW7f9-6RyI/AAAAAAAABzg/1tnWhuIcF8k/s1600/The+Barrens+The+Mor'shan+Rampart.jpg

Getting into this forest with a lot of purple and giving you a sort of elf forest feeling. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3190/2579195149_085a8fc9a6.jpg
http://static4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060923112513/wowwiki/images/1/1c/Ashenvale.jpg
It’s a little smoggy because of the humidity in the air you get in a forest. Lighting is also different because you are in a forest.

Many NPC’s to learn here. On our way north we might be able to learn many of them but also might find a settlement of an opposing faction.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fJVV1ljPTS0/S9CI9cipuSI/AAAAAAAAABc/xP8oyAc6MSA/s1600/WoWScrnShot_042210_102633.jpg

We go north and suddenly the whole environment changes. Still a fores but ugly dark green and brown colors and a toxic atmosphere with water that almost looks radio active. Even the tree’s seem to be coming strait out of a horror movie.
http://www.icedragonart.com/wowexplorers/felwood/felwood_screenshots15.jpg
http://www.icedragonart.com/wowexplorers/felwood/felwood_screenshots31.jpg

Where you had nice looking wolves and bears before http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090905192150/wowwiki/images/f/f2/Ghostpaw_Runner.jpg

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090128150431/wowwiki/images/2/20/Ashenvale_Bear.jpg

now there are ugly black wolves and bears with hair standing up.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090905193928/wowwiki/images/4/47/Felpaw_Wolf.jpg http://www.blogcdn.com/wow.joystiq.com/media/2010/02/580wowscrnshot022110153618.jpg

Everything seems to be corrupted by the forest.

While you hate the look of them, as a ranger you see all these different beast you might tame but you are in for a real treat. A tiger also corrupted by the forest http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090120115223/wowwiki/images/7/71/Corrupted_Saber.jpg

Now while I said the forest changed we really went into another map. We are now in Felwood. We want to get our of this place and keep heading north.
We end up at a cave http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/8890/exploit29ol.jpg it’s guarded but after helping the bearlike ‘people’ guarding it we are allowed in.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TGCGK7NMNgI/AAAAAAAABjA/qN3jQn5XAkw/s640/Timbermaw+Hold+Bridge+(2).jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TGCGO1ii7mI/AAAAAAAABjI/T9CvAZ7TWSw/s1600/Timbermaw+Hold+Bridge.jpg

When we emerge you notice it’s cold. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TGCE21-Zb6I/AAAAAAAABig/fbAp6_69HqE/s1600/Winterspring+Timbermaw+Hold.jpg

We walk on and we are suddenly in this beautifully icy landscape http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050822073323/wowwiki/images/8/87/Winterspring.jpg http://repgrind.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/wowscrnshot_061511_185656.jpg
We entered Winterspring.

Most of the animals are white and there are some nice pets and mounts to find. Riding along to the east we end up in another little settlement. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CdutAfD_MUc/TGIXlQc06mI/AAAAAAAABnI/0FwssgaE6D0/s1600/Winterspring+Everlook.jpg
There some other race is working on inventions and doing a lot of stuff you can help them with. You as an engineer as craft can also learn something from them.

The end.

Now you see how the colors, transitions, light and all that stuff together can really create an atmosphere in the world.

Not to mention that the possibility to skip half the map using waypoints will also not help you in a big way.

P1/2
World (and maps) is missing atmosphere?

Disclaimer: I will be using other MMO’s as examples.

I recently made 3 threads about things that in my opinion are some of the core problems in GW2. Problems meaning the reason behind the things many people are complaining about.

There was one subject I did slightly touch in one of the threads but I never really went deep into it because I found it hard to describe the feeling. However I now think that atmosphere is the best word.

Maps in GW2 are beautiful but what I miss is a bound to the world. You know when you played a game and you have this sort of homesickness towards area’s in that game. Places you just like to visit again.

I think that feeling is related / created by a number of things and together they create the ’ atmosphere’ of the world.
1 Diversity in the maps including the transition from one to another.
2 Good colors.
3 Learning to know the area and the people (NPC’s) and the history of them, becoming friends with them.
4 The art of the world.
5 The atmosphere of the map.
6 Background sounds.

Let me go by the threads one by one and also see if GW2 has that or not.

1 GW2 has a great diversity in maps. No doubt about it. You have beautiful maps, ugly maps (thats not a negative, MMO’s should have ugly maps) icy maps and so on. It’s however the transition where it lacks.

First of all, all the different type of maps are in one area. You have the jungle area, the ice area, the char area (don’t know how to name that) and so on. Of course it make sense you have more of one environment in one area and more of another in another area but for the transition it needs to be mixed. You need to go from a ugly area in a new area to a icy area and so on.

Also the maps are instances. So you don’t walk from one area into another, no you are in one area, get a load-screen and are suddenly in another area. That takes away from the whole transition and the feeling it gives you when playing a game where that is.

Because what we are talking about here is a feeling.

2 Colors. GW2 has that totally going for it. It mainly uses good bight enough colors but also has area’s with some less bright colors (part of that diversity). There are many games and mmo’s that have the whole world very gray and that just does not work.

3 Learning to know the area and the people. That is pretty much non-existing in GW2. Some events can help with this is a veyr basic manner but overall you don’t learn to know the people (NPC’s), you don’t learn there story. They don’t learn to know your. You don’t get a nice reward from them for helping them. You don’t go into a cave to find something for a friend (npc), you go in a cave because on the map you see there is a hearth, an event of a poi. The more traditional quest seem to be better at providing that.

4 GW2 has that totally going for it. Its a buatifull world with great looking maps. An obvious artstyle they are going for.

5 The atmosphere in a map. Misses in GW2, and it is hard to say why. I know forest do help create such a feeling just as very open maps and canyons. GW2 does not have the forest or the open world and canyons only partly. No real forest even in the ‘forest’ area you are walking in between many trees but you are not walking in a forest, that is a big difference. There are also not really open maps where you can look very far and see not much then grass of sand. Kessex Hills does have that a little bid but still limited. Also effects like smog or weather help create such an atmosphere.

I remember being in one map in GW2 when it was night and it was raining, there was lighting. The map had many torches (was one of the maps filled with centaurs) and at that moment there was a great atmosphere in that map. But during the day (or no storm) it’s just a beautiful map with no atmosphere.

As en example I would like to have a look as some images from EQN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-RNx4bb5-Y&start=6m2se&end=7m55se
If you watch from 6:02 to 7:55 you can see many of these examples. How they play with the light, smog, the forest and the day and night cycle (playing with light in a way, but also colors because of a red sun)

6 Background sounds.
Not sure about this one. GW2 does have the sound. You do need to turn music sound way down and the environment sound way up to get it to work. However it could use a little extra work I think. When I am in a cold windy place I want to hear that wind and in a forest I want to hear the monkeys (as far as they exist) and during the night I want to hear the wolfs. In the video I linked you also have that. Some area’s might be silent. There is that diversity again.

As a final example of the combination of most the things I mentioned here I will take an example of a little journey in WoW. Yeah I know, these days you are supposed to hate WoW or something but fact is that the game has it’s popularity not for nothing.

Have a look at this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Guild-System-Improvements/page/4#post1629902

Anyway, no ETA.

I used to spend a lot of time on the forums.
However I did say most I had to say by now and recently made 3 topics about what I see as the core problems:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-focus-on-micro-transactions/first#post3324571

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Problem-of-being-different-for-the-sake-of-it/first#post3335578

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Problem-of-the-so-called-quick-and-dirty-way/first#post3316929

With that done I really said what I had to say. I am finishing up some last threads I’m active in and plan to be way less active on the forums after that. Just coming back for some specific thinks once in a while.

I gave Anet all the input I could so now it’s up to them to do something with it.. or not. If they listen to the feedback in general they can improve the game and else at least you can be sure you did what you could possibly do and if they don’t listen and the game shrinks you can always say ‘I told you so’.

Ayrilana.1396:

Devata.6589:

Ayrilana.1396:

Devata.6589:

Ayrilana.1396:

Devata.6589:

Ayrilana.1396:

Devata.6589:

Ayrilana.1396:

This is an RPG. There’s no click here and receive everything. Leveling by actually playing the game has been a core component of RPG’s for nearly their entire existence.

But the playelement to level is maybe not extensive enough. It’s completing maps, do a dungeon and maybe some WvW.

There are events, personal story (to a degree), farming mobs, etc.

Personal story then I geus. Events and farming mobs is part of the map-completion.

Not really. I’ve completed zero events and killed minimal mobs when leveling by map completion before. They’re not the same.

Even then.. When you can farm a mob for something specifically (mount, mini, item, recipe or like in my last example a color) then there would be a real reason to do it. Then it would be playable content. Thats not the case now.

Same for the events, now thats hard with events but think of the traditional quest where a specific quest can give you a specific item like a mini or a mount and so on.

Then you are doing it because your collecting these things, now you are doing it to level? Or something (don’t really know any other reason) So you are leveling to level. That it what I am trying to say in my post here.

I don’t think we’re discussing the exact same topic. I’m talking about leveling your toon as was discussed in the OP. You seem to be discussing loot.

No it’s not the loot it’s what you do to level. Are you leveling to level or are you doing all those thinks I give as example. I would prefer the last but it feels to much as the first tbh.

Everything I listed were ways to level. Dynamic events give a good amount of experience. Just look at the Queensdale farm. The old school method, and what’s used in many older RPG’s, is that you farm mobs to gain experience.

Well for me the thinks you name are not so much fun. Killing mobs to slowly gain a level, run with zerg killing champions or doing some events that mostly are very similar due to the limited nature of them. (traditional quest give some more options then events. Events can be fun bust most events are based on some attack you have to prevent with the boss / champion as the next event).

It’s something I would not be doing if I did not need to level. I am looking for thinks to do I would be doing anyway (like the examples I gave). That might be partially sub subject thing and some people might like to level doing the thinks you mention but the people complaining about leveling being boring obviously prefer other elements.

Draknar.5748:

I remember in AC, there was a pretty rare monster that would spawn randomly called a Hoary Mattekar (for old AC players you know where I’m going with this). If you happened upon one it was really exciting, but what’s even better is that when you killed it there was a chance that it would drop a Hoary Mattekar hide (drop rate was pretty low, I’d guess 5%, and considering how rare it was to come across one it made it quite exclusive). Anyway, if you happened to get one of their rare hides you could craft it into this sweet all-white robe (there were no dyes in AC, so something being all-white was pretty effing awesome). I spent so much time hunting those things to get that robe.

I think something like that would be pretty sweet. It would need to not be a farm-able spawn though. Would need to be a legitimately random spawn.

That sort of elements would indeed be nice and is what I am referring to. You go for the goal (the hide in your case) and have fun doing that. Meanwhile you are leveling (if you are not max level yet, this sort of thinks stay fun at max level).

But now you will most likely be doing a dungeon x times to get the gold to buy a while colored dye. What is more fun. For me it’s the hunt for that item, not the hunt for the currency.

Anyway, most of the thinks I am here referring to are simply not in the game because Anet is generating it’s income mainly with the gem-store. That mans they cant punt all those thinks in the world because they need to put it in the gem-store. That is really a shame. They should have gone for a model where they focused on expansions for income (like GW1) so they could have put all those items in the game and did not need to make sure gold is everything.

I made another topic about that so I think I can leave it with that but every problem has it’s source.

Ayrilana.1396:

Devata.6589:

Ayrilana.1396:

Devata.6589:

Ayrilana.1396:

Devata.6589:

Ayrilana.1396:

This is an RPG. There’s no click here and receive everything. Leveling by actually playing the game has been a core component of RPG’s for nearly their entire existence.

But the playelement to level is maybe not extensive enough. It’s completing maps, do a dungeon and maybe some WvW.

There are events, personal story (to a degree), farming mobs, etc.

Personal story then I geus. Events and farming mobs is part of the map-completion.

Not really. I’ve completed zero events and killed minimal mobs when leveling by map completion before. They’re not the same.

Even then.. When you can farm a mob for something specifically (mount, mini, item, recipe or like in my last example a color) then there would be a real reason to do it. Then it would be playable content. Thats not the case now.

Same for the events, now thats hard with events but think of the traditional quest where a specific quest can give you a specific item like a mini or a mount and so on.

Then you are doing it because your collecting these things, now you are doing it to level? Or something (don’t really know any other reason) So you are leveling to level. That it what I am trying to say in my post here.

I don’t think we’re discussing the exact same topic. I’m talking about leveling your toon as was discussed in the OP. You seem to be discussing loot.

No it’s not the loot it’s what you do to level. Are you leveling to level or are you doing all those thinks I give as example. I would prefer the last but it feels to much as the first tbh.

Morrigan.2809:

Devata.6589:

Draknar.5748:

Devata.6589:

Ayrilana.1396:

This is an RPG. There’s no click here and receive everything. Leveling by actually playing the game has been a core component of RPG’s for nearly their entire existence.

But the playelement to level is maybe not extensive enough. It’s completing maps, do a dungeon and maybe some WvW.

If we’re talking about strictly level 80 stuff, then you have dungeons, PvP, WvW, map completion, and LS stuff (which you could lump into dungeons I suppose).

I’m trying to think about what I did at max level in all of the other MMOs I’ve ever played, and it pretty much boiled down to dungeons and/or PvP. I honestly can’t think of anything else I ever did at end-game besides those two. Hunting down rare mounts/items typically involved farming a dungeon/raid hoping to get a rare drop.

For non-80s you have almost an identical list of things you can do: WvW, PvP, map completion, and LS stuff. Dungeons are the only things that are level restricted, but LS dungeons upscale as do FoTM dungeons, so really you’re just missing out on the standard dungeons and access to every zone, but that comes with time.

If you don’t enjoy PvP or WvW then GW2 will get boring pretty quick.

Hunting down those thinks I referred to would indeed sometimes mean farming a dungeon or a mob or doing a quest and so on. But because you would move from the one mini / mount / item to the other there was every-time another dungeon, mob, quest you needed to do and it resulted in the reward you wanted.

In GW2 you pretty much need to do whatever makes you the most money so thats much more repetitive.

Personally I just do what I enjoy and I have a goal for each character as I level them up so it never feels like I am repeating stuff- actually I am allergic to repeating stuff.

I do love events though so I will do them whenever I come across them- I draw the line at doing the same event 10 minutes later.
But that is another discussion and by that time I have moved on most likely.

In my previous MMO I had to do this dungeon x many times to get the stuff to do y dungeon and then even the festivals was the same.

Don’t get me wrong I would love to go hunting for cool skins, mini’s recipes, even skills.
but it is not like i find leveling a chore.

I just do what I am in the mood for and the levels come by themselves

Then you find other goals to set for your alts while leveling. Many people don’t seem to find those goals.

I don’t know what alternative goals you go for or what thinks you are in the mood for. I am just saying, in most mmo’s collecting that sort of stuff and doing a fun craft (that also required some collecting) where my goals, the thinks I was in the mood for when playing. In GW2 those thinks don’t really exist and I find it hard to find other thinks here to replace those. Thats why leveling in GW2 is sort of boring in my opinion.

I can have fun in the game don’t get me wrong but I do miss such thinks. A lot!

It happens a lot that I am like.. what could I do.?? Then I walk around in some city, jump from one fence to the other and after an hour of that I log out again. What I really have been doing in the meanwhile is chatting in the guild-chat.

That rearly happened to me in any other mmo’s because I was always on the hunt for the next recipe, or for that cool Item I know those 3 mobs can drop, or that cool mini and so on.

Ayrilana.1396:

Devata.6589:

Ayrilana.1396:

Devata.6589:

Ayrilana.1396:

This is an RPG. There’s no click here and receive everything. Leveling by actually playing the game has been a core component of RPG’s for nearly their entire existence.

But the playelement to level is maybe not extensive enough. It’s completing maps, do a dungeon and maybe some WvW.

There are events, personal story (to a degree), farming mobs, etc.

Personal story then I geus. Events and farming mobs is part of the map-completion.

Not really. I’ve completed zero events and killed minimal mobs when leveling by map completion before. They’re not the same.

Even then.. When you can farm a mob for something specifically (mount, mini, item, recipe or like in my last example a color) then there would be a real reason to do it. Then it would be playable content. Thats not the case now.

Same for the events, now thats hard with events but think of the traditional quest where a specific quest can give you a specific item like a mini or a mount and so on.

Then you are doing it because your collecting these things, now you are doing it to level? Or something (don’t really know any other reason) So you are leveling to level. That it what I am trying to say in my post here.

Draknar.5748:

Devata.6589:

Ayrilana.1396:

This is an RPG. There’s no click here and receive everything. Leveling by actually playing the game has been a core component of RPG’s for nearly their entire existence.

But the playelement to level is maybe not extensive enough. It’s completing maps, do a dungeon and maybe some WvW.

If we’re talking about strictly level 80 stuff, then you have dungeons, PvP, WvW, map completion, and LS stuff (which you could lump into dungeons I suppose).

I’m trying to think about what I did at max level in all of the other MMOs I’ve ever played, and it pretty much boiled down to dungeons and/or PvP. I honestly can’t think of anything else I ever did at end-game besides those two. Hunting down rare mounts/items typically involved farming a dungeon/raid hoping to get a rare drop.

For non-80s you have almost an identical list of things you can do: WvW, PvP, map completion, and LS stuff. Dungeons are the only things that are level restricted, but LS dungeons upscale as do FoTM dungeons, so really you’re just missing out on the standard dungeons and access to every zone, but that comes with time.

If you don’t enjoy PvP or WvW then GW2 will get boring pretty quick.

Hunting down those thinks I referred to would indeed sometimes mean farming a dungeon or a mob or doing a quest and so on. But because you would move from the one mini / mount / item to the other there was every-time another dungeon, mob, quest you needed to do and it resulted in the reward you wanted.

In GW2 you pretty much need to do whatever makes you the most money so thats much more repetitive.

And if it’s not gold it’s some other currency. Takes dyes. In a way unidentified dyes are just a currency for dyes. (and gold is as well).
If they would not put unidentified dyee in the world but the dyes itself all over the place and then dropping a specific color from a specific dungeons, mobs, quest (if they would exist in GW2) and so on that would be yet another thing to go for in a more structured way.

If dyes would work like that it would be something I might be collecting especially if it would be account-bound (with soul-bound it’s a little to much. And it was supposed to be account-bound http://my.mmosite.com/2221790/blog/item/guild_wars_2_team_hires_nexon_employee_as_cash_shop_manager_changes_already_apparent.html ) not I don’t really look out for dyes. I don’t specifically collect them because the way they are implemented.

But then they can’t put it in the gem-store. However that would also add something to really focus on while leveling and after reaching max level.

Ayrilana.1396:

Devata.6589:

Ayrilana.1396:

This is an RPG. There’s no click here and receive everything. Leveling by actually playing the game has been a core component of RPG’s for nearly their entire existence.

But the playelement to level is maybe not extensive enough. It’s completing maps, do a dungeon and maybe some WvW.

There are events, personal story (to a degree), farming mobs, etc.

Personal story then I geus. Events and farming mobs is part of the map-completion.

Ayrilana.1396:

This is an RPG. There’s no click here and receive everything. Leveling by actually playing the game has been a core component of RPG’s for nearly their entire existence.

But the playelement to level is maybe not extensive enough. It’s completing maps, do a dungeon and maybe some WvW.

Mochann.5298:

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Not every game fits every person. I can’t imagine a game that’s easier to level in than this one. There’s nothing going on at higher levels, except some specific dungeon runs and being the best in WvW that you can’t do at lower levels.

I have 9 80s now, and I’m working on my 10th. Level 69…but I don’t grind. I do what I want, when I want. And the levels come.

For some reason, there’s a type of player that levels matter to more than the game requires them to matter. I think it comes from how things are in other games.

Sadly enough the level matters a lot. You get better loot with a lvl 80 char (loot seems to be based on your level) you are much stronger in WvW and dungeons and you can not easily go to all area’s when you are a lower lever.

Personally I would love to see levels not existing and then exploring, doing quest, events and stuff reward in other ways. Just to see if that would work.

Leveling by itself can be fun but not when your goal is to reach the max level and for the previous stated reasons that is the case when leveling alts.

Check out a game called Second Life. No levelling.

That is not really a game
.
However in most MMO’s I was doing stuff (see previous post) not focusing on the leveling. In GW2 there might not be enough to do so you level just to level making it less fun.

So I don’t know if it would work, an mmo without levels but the goal should never have to be leveling itself. You should just do the many thinks you can do and level in the mean time. While they say that in GW2 the end-game starts at lvl one maybe the problem is that many of the end-game is just lest fun? Obviously something is wrong. I mis the thinks I mentioned but if thats the same for other people I don’t know.

Draknar.5748:

Covis.6037:

problem with the current leveling is there is not much replayability. alot of us have already map completed 100%, maybe even twice or more. there is not much other experience after that. all the events u have done already multiple times feel old and grindy. idd there should be something that could make u instantly lvl 80. maybe it should require first 1 lvl 80 character who knows, maybe 100% map completion?

I do agree with this. Sort of. I have 2 chars at 100% so I definitely know where you’re coming from. But in all honesty, what game isn’t like that? I mean, once you’ve been to every zone and done every mission/event/quest, you’re pretty much in the same boat. I don’t think it’s exclusive to GW2, I think that’s MMOs in general.

What’s nice about GW2 and having explored everything twice, for new chars I know what areas I like and don’t like. And since you can level up to 80 in literally any zone (or for my most recent char I did strictly WvW—which was fun as hell btw—a bit inconsistent, but definitely fun as hell), I just pick the zones I feel like going to and don’t worry about completion anymore.

I find I RP with newer chars now. They wander the landscape looking for people to help (DEs). It helps to break the repetition.

Might be my type of play-style but usually (in other MMO’s) I did never have to do so much repeatable stuff. Maybe you do a dungeon a few times and the same quest or here events while leveling but overall I was busy with the thinks I mentioned before. (collecting mini’s in the world, leveling a fun-craft, collecting recipe’s, searching for mounts, searching for pets and searching for fun items.. Some MMO’s are very good at putting just fun items in the game. Heal orb, invisible orb, different shape stones and what not more).
Or you know when you have a quest (the more traditional ones) and you get some mini during the quest. I would then search such quest but never finish them. Then I would also collect temporary pets (items) so I would try to make it possible to have as much as mini’s + pets out at the same time as possible. So make my own achievements in a way.

Leveling an alt would usually meant doing something similar.

By the time I would have much of the stuff maxed out an expansion would come adding many more new of such things so you kept busy doing such thinks.

GW2 does not have a lot / any of those thinks in the game. That is really a shame. It adds something to the game and in other mmo’s that stuff was always the end-content for me.

Vayne.8563:

Not every game fits every person. I can’t imagine a game that’s easier to level in than this one. There’s nothing going on at higher levels, except some specific dungeon runs and being the best in WvW that you can’t do at lower levels.

I have 9 80s now, and I’m working on my 10th. Level 69…but I don’t grind. I do what I want, when I want. And the levels come.

For some reason, there’s a type of player that levels matter to more than the game requires them to matter. I think it comes from how things are in other games.

Sadly enough the level matters a lot. You get better loot with a lvl 80 char (loot seems to be based on your level) you are much stronger in WvW and dungeons and you can not easily go to all area’s when you are a lower lever.

Personally I would love to see levels not existing and then exploring, doing quest, events and stuff reward in other ways. Just to see if that would work.

Leveling by itself can be fun but not when your goal is to reach the max level and for the previous stated reasons that is the case when leveling alts.

If you put all the stuff in one place all the time everybody will rush there. You get multiple overflows for that map and the rest of the world is empty.

I mentioned the gem-store before because of the fluff that is missing in the world.

In some other good mmo’s thinks you do when you reach the max number is collecting pets (that can usually be done over the whole work), level some fun craft (GW2 really need fun-crafts) what required you to get special items or recipe from all over the world. Collect mounts that are all over the world or rangers go search for special pets.

None of those examples I gave here are really possible in GW2, because most fluff is in the gem-store and the economy is gold-driven. So people will go to the one place that gets you the best gold / reward or to the latest patch from the current living story. Meaning one or 2 places are crowded and the rest of the world is empty.

I was also disappointed that at Halloween only LA was really decorated. Last year I figured they simply did not yet had the time to make those changes for the whole world but I did expect that this year. I was wrong. Hope that Winterdays will have the whole world decorated. Those thinks also mean people will rush to one place in stead of spread out over the world and thats what you want. People that are spread out all over the world. Then you see people everywhere in stead a lot in 1 or 2 places.

Xae Isareth.1364:

The Holy Trinity is great and all, but closing it just for the sake of closing it is in my opinion better than having it around.

Inherently, due to the way its designed, you have a lot less people playing tanks and healers, so as a DD, you spend most of your time waiting in a queue. That’s not fun.

I had to wait for up to 4 hours in a queue for FF14. 4 HOURS.

Also, is it so bad with everyone being DPS with some team support? I really don’t see whats so bad about not having a dedicated tank or healer.

closing it just for the sake of closing it is never a good reason for anything. There are always more ways to solve a problem. Maybe they could make tank and healer classes more fun. Or even have an equal amount of healer / dps / tank classes because in most games (with the queue problem) there are more DPS classes then tank or heal classes.

So if the queue is a problem there are many ways to do something about that. If another reason is the problem you can always redesign the content / combat in a way to counter those problems.

But doing it different really just for the sake of doing it different. Because you want to be this game that is ‘new’ so everything has to be different is a bad reason. Then it’s not quality driven.

I took the trinity as one of the examples because many people complain about the combat being boring, having no roles, feeling to solo, having no real impact and being to much just smashing a button (to take the complains you can find on the forum together).

So you might not think it’s a problem but many people seem to think it is.

saalle.4623:

I love all elder scrolls games so ESO seems like BIG thing for me,as for Wildstar i dont like it and wont even bother to check it out,its simple i dont like that cartoonish animation,game looks like copy of WOW,boring combat and so on,mehh even if it was perfect its still doesnt bring anything new.But ESO,Black Desert,Everquest Next and B&S is something that can be worth checking out.Still i like GW2 and as for answer what comes in 2014,Anet already said that in 2014 they will release HUGE patch(possible expanison) and that is something i look forward.

If they make truth on there promise but a long time ago (I think February) they also said GW2 would get an patch with a expansion worth of content. I have never seen it. If we would count all patches so far together we still don’t have an expansion worth of content and by now they should have released an expansion if they would work with expansions in stead of the living world.

Sadly I think that the time invested into the living world might getting close to an expansion worth of time / money / work.

Calae.1738:

Colin used to talk about the plans for the game in the months ahead. Maybe they have no plans. Maybe if they don’t reach revenue targets by Dec 30th they may have to cut budgets.

In that case if they would reach the revenue targets by Dec 30th they might think they are on the right way and would keep moving that way so I am not sure what would be the best outcome for the game.

They need to have enough money to make the needed changes. They did spend a lot of money on the wrong thinks sadly. But they also need to see / feel they need to make changes.

Stars.2179:

My prediction for next year? Scarlet’s DO NOT TOUCH has somehow affect one of the Elder Dragons, which would now surface and attack. People seek for old knowledge of ascension hence the opening of the passage to the Crystal Desert from the Fields of Ruin extending from Deldrimor Front to Crystal Desert to Elon River and Scavenger’s Cause Way.
By April ANet’s secret team who have been working on the expansion is “ready” to discuss this. By August 2014, the expansion will come out we’ll see the eastern half of the map completely unlocked.

Also at this time another secret team of ANet would have been 1/4 of their way working on the Ring of Fire south to the Unending Ocean to Cantha with possibly connecting the Dominion of Winds to it, preparing for the second expansion with the two new races, one of which is the Tengu. We’ll have to go through 2014 – 2015 with just the Crystal Desert.

By April 2016, this second team will be ready to announce the second expansion with Cantha open for exploration.

Of course all this is… speculation/hopeful

I did see them more move towards factions. The living story seems to be going that way and Anet focusing more on expansions would indeed be much better then focusing on the living story. But so far they are still focusing on the living story (what is basically a focus on generating income from the cash-shop) and if they would have a focus on expansions we should have seen an expansion already.

So while such a focus on expansions would be the best so far Anet did not go that way yet. But who knows, maybe internally they did see they made a mistake and are now already working towards a expansion based game in stead of living story / cash-shop based game. One can only hope.

Primernova.5791:

Magnus Steelgrave.6580:

They can feel free to secure my loyalty anytime now byy introducing the housing features that they said would be in game a year ago… if not, that would be quite literally the last straw for me if that’s not out well before the new games are, I been patient enough about it.

I’ve played several MMOs that had housing, it’s pointless and massively overrated. You decorate it once as a massive currency sink, show it to your friends, get bored in 2 seconds and never go back again.

If it’s in an instance and mainly looks yes. But what if you can use it to gather stuff and it’s open world so you can fight to keep or get a better place on the map?

Same for guild-houses.

Primernova.5791:

Play both Wildstar and GW2, that way you can almost have good WoW again! It’s blindingly obvious how the Anet devs did the world, art direction and sound back then and Carbine did the ‘cartoony’ factor and combat.

I think GW2 devs could learn and more easily implement stuff from the next iteration of MMOs (Wildstar mainly) but not the other way around. No MMO is better looking or running than GW2 in the next round, it’s just the GW2 combat style that turns so many off. Zergs ’n Zerkers is a horribly boring and bland system. But, I think it can be improved, maybe… I personally liked the tab target, tons of on demand skills and trinity system. Not sure why it was just decided one day that some vast new audience existed and that they just hated it.

My 100% spot on predictions for 2014: GW2 will stay the course and hobble along, well under it’s potential. ESO will fall flat on it’s face. Wildstar will disappoint due to horrible graphics and a gimpy combat system (better than GW2, but still silly). WoW will continue to shrink, but still be at the top by 2015 due to proper endgame (instanced raids), trinity, zergless PvP and the past works of both Carbine and Anet making a seamless and (fairly) beautiful world.

I did here somebody say that the new WoW expansion should bring the game again back to it roots.
Something many of the people who left WoW might get them back. If that expansion makes it’s promises truth.

So while everybody here is talking about ESO and Wildstar you should not forget about the new WoW expansion coming around the same time. A good expansion can have the same effect as a new released game.

I just wanted to add that funny enough Wooden Potatoes hit this subject in one of his latest video’s. He did not say that “it has to be difference” was bad but he did say it might be the reason mounts are not in yet. (I did see an interview where Colin said they would like mounts but then with combat skills or something).

BTW I do not agree with Wooden Potatoes that it’s to late for GW2 to add those changes in the existing world and I do think thats those places would still be very accessible (thats there the mounts come into place and maybe flypoints like many mmo’s have) but I would like to add the video to this thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXgBAWOGvw4&t=10m46s

Obviously Piken Square.

I don’t know if Anet has the capability make it a huge year. Partly because they put so much effort in the living sorry and secondly because they might not even see what mistakes they made. Then again, these forums should give them an idea.

If they are really coming with something next year they should already be working on it right now.

About Wildstar. Don’t forget that many of the thinks that Anet has been doing in GW2 is based on a gem-store focus that is likely partly driven by Ncsoft. Wildstar is also been published by Ncsoft. Depending how GW2 will be doing in 1 / 2 years time you might wonder if you can better focus on developers the publish there own games.

Besides, Wildstar is like WoW + aliens and then they try to copy the humor from Team Fortress / Battlefield Heroes. I just don’t see that working in a MMORPG.

It’s also hard to say how you would define the model. You can ear game-time in the game. Is that easy to get? If so then it’s basically a F2P game. If it’s hard to earn the money then it’s still so that if you buy gems you can also get free play-time so then it is a F2P game with the requirement to buy items from the store.

They do have a semi-nice housing system. Semi-nice because it’s extremely customizable however it’s a instanced based housing system. Newer MMO’s will start with placing housing in the open world what is arguably more fun.

ESO is a nice game but they made the mistake to go full sub-based. That system does not work anymore plus the fact that they have a big name for there single-player games but will not be able to create the same for a MMO. So most likely they will go F2P very soon and then it becomes one more of those games that suffer under it’s cash-shop. Just like GW2 is doing now.

What I do think that is a big plus for those games that might a reason to attract GW2 players.
They both have mounts and some real nice looking ones and they are both really an open world. No instanced maps (Wildstar does have a tutorial in an instance) so giving you a real open world feeling. Not like GW2 with all the instanced maps that totally takes away that feeling (not to mention the waypoints).