Guild Wars 2

It’s funny when you jump off a high cliff with as a mesmer, survive, other guy jumps, and you just portal back to the top.

Yes, yes, nerf condition damage thieves too, that is the start of the mass die off of 1/8 GW2 population who are pissed off due to the constant nerfs and uselessness of thief.

But really, it’s all about predicting his stealth. Thieves are predictable. If he’s slow, rooted, ect. He’s probably still in the same spot, just invisible

invisible doesn’t mean invincible, remember that.

I’ve also had some pretty funny stealth issues where I am in a party with a friend in sPvP who is on the opposite team and I could see right through his stealth like he was a teammate using stealth.

I’ve seen it a few times. I just shrug and move on.

Indeed, we are in great need of everyone that isn’t NA primetime. NA primetime queues can get as long as a few hours sometimes, but at night it’s almost always outmanned buff. The community here is mature and friendly(at least to one another). There aren’t much trolls or rude players. Most are pretty cool and laid back, not to mention the quality of our players is impressive. Oceanics would be treated as a welcome and we would love to see you guys come over.

I think full only applies for how many people are online in the server at that moment. Don’t think it’s total population, but rather total population online. If it’s night time and NA numbers are low Oceanics should be able to transfer…that is if my assumption is correct.

We need pact airships in wvw. Have them as an asset, fly over a certain area and you can bomb it with cannons. Enemies can use helicopters to fly onto the airship and take it via force or buy Anti Air cannon sieges and shoot it down…

Just sayin…

Might be lag, might be something to do with the debug, not quite so sure, but I do know sometimes when I enter stealth a ranger’s arrows will still hit me for 3-4 more shots. Kinda weird, don’t really mind though.

Kirito.8796:

The ones that dont think it needs a nerf are the ones that use it period. I (being a thief myself) have full carrion exotic armour, green exotic trinkets and traits are 0/0/30/25/15. I got hit for a 4.5k steal, 5k cloak n dagger then an 11k bs, no class should be able to pull off 20k dmg in little over a second. Its not only bad for the one who’s hit but also the one whos using it. All they do is look for squishy players, execute it then either die from aoe or run away and reset, they are such a burden in most team fights either being dead or attacking the most useless players.

Edit: I had 20k health and was fully traited into toughness at the time.

You’re a thief and you can’t counter it? It is the easiest thing to counter as a thief. As soon as he get’s in range either use your steal to catch him off guard, or blinding powder or thieves guild

Gator.7581:

@ Doomdesire – I take issue with the way you simply dismissed the OP. These things are problems, and if you don’t see that, then you either play a Thief, or you play a class that can take 15-16K damage in 1.5 seconds and not die. Sure, he may drop your health down quite a bit, but you’ll live; not ever seeing where the damage comes from is probably not a big deal to you. You back off and heal up or pop your quick heal, either way, it’s only a mere annoyance to you. To the rest of the people playing, it’s simply instant death from out of nowhere. I used to get upset about it, but at this point, the developers either think its peachy or don’t care; no real reason to get upset. I go back to my spawn point and run back to the fight and carry on. But don’t pretend it’s balanced or okay for this kind of thing.

You can have your opinion, but as for me, a perfectly rational person, none of those things are okay. And, it should always be about balance, maybe not always fairness, but ALWAYS about balance. I mean come on, let’s face it, some people are better than others at this sort of thing, and that might not be fair, but it’s a fact. As long as there is a balanced foundation from which everyone plays, then whatever each player does from that position should be all that makes the difference. In other words, it should be skill, not exploits and unfair advantages that determine the outcome. I would hate to play a class that has that unfair advantage. Wouldn’t you? I mean, otherwise, they would have a tendency to say that it was the unfair advantage and not player skill that won the battle; there would always be a cloud of uncertainty hanging over it. Better to just beat someone fair and square I say.

“You already lost and the only likely reason why you would complain about that is if you and your teammates massively outnumber him and he gets the kill while all your teammates are trying to revive you.”

You sound like you may believe it’s some sort of privilege to be able to steak your kill. I agree to a point. But let’s look at the “likely” scenario. The Thief, who really doesn’t fight, doesn’t really show any superior skill, skulks about in stealth, around the edges of the fight, looking for soft targets. He finds one, walks up behind him and mashes about 3 or 4 keys, the moves play out in about 1-2 seconds, and the ‘target’ is dead. The Thief stays in stealth, stakes his kill, and then removes himself from the battle to recover his cool-downs. Rinse and repeat. I don’t see this as requiring any great skill. This is why I don’t play a Thief. At the moment, in this game, it is (in my opinion) simply not balanced. Anyone can play that style. It takes guts to use the Thief in just about any other way, but some people like having things handed to them I guess. Maybe we should just get some folks to park their characters in the middle of a field and then go afk. Then you can just walk up and kill them by the dozens; frankly, it’d be about the same thing. However, that is just my opinion. ;-)

I dismissed him because I, along with other thieves, are sick are tired of others coming here, not knowing how to properly play, and complain to nerf our class. Stealth is an advantage of thief, whether you like it or not, and destroying it ruins the thief class entirely. I take it’s you’re running a glass cannon and don’t know how to counter a thief? It you cannot spot an enemy player’s health randomly increasing, and you come and complain about stealth rezz, then it’s by far the biggest L2P issue. It’s so simple and I’ve killed so many thieves. Then the stealth finish part. A RATIONAL person WOULD assume a thief going into stealth and the edge of a down players it going to finish him. Just because he’s INVISIBLE doesn’t mean he’s INVINCIBLE. Thieves are so predictable it isn’t even funny. The fact that people can’t even predict the simplest of things, but rather come here and complain is unacceptable. So forgive me if I’m sick and tired of players coming here to scream nerf x, nerf y every other day instead of paying attention to the small details that count and make them really successful against stealth rezzing/finishing/

WvW culling and rendering issues is a bug and should be addressed. If you let a thief revive someone in stealth you’re doing something wrong. I mean come, seriously, you see the enemies health bar randomly going up. A rational person would have the common sense to assume someone in stealth is kneeling right there. Just because he’s invisible doesn’t mean he’s invincible. Finishing in stealth is a legit tactic and is used by all classes who have stealth. If you down that person, you should deserve the kill, it shouldn’t be about “balance” and that point. You already lost and the only likely reason why you would complain about that is if you and your teammates massively outnumber him and he gets the kill while all your teammates are trying to revive you.

Rayya.2591:

hello,
5 days ago i had an nice drop in WvWvW
Not sure what is the drop rate , but good loot exist

Didn’t even know you could get exotics from enemies. Thought it was a chest only sorta loot. That’s a really nice find though. Earlier today my friend found a destroyer lodestone from a heavy loot bag. Needless to say I was jelly.

ArchNemesis.4897:

EasymodeX.4062:

Krathalos.3461:

Except thief doesn’t have an interruption that can reach 1500 range on any build possible. The warrior could have also been behind him, thus making an interruption impossible while immobilized.

The Warrior was at 900 range.

A thief can’t do anything in .3 seconds.

A Thief can deal 30k damage in 0.3 seconds.

Maybe against an upscaled player with no armor or a rabbit.

I’m just going to assume this is either trolling or a joke.

If it’s honestly as easy as you say it is to do “30k damage in .3 seconds”, show us.

I’d love to see you post a vid of the damage after showing us that the person you did it to has no armor or traits(Spvp) / is upscaled with no armor or traits(WvW)

Because otherwise, you know you’re exaggerating and making a complete fool of yourself.

If this is an attempt to troll, you should work on that. It’s fairly obvious

2/10 – simply for making me reply.

30K dmg in .3 seconds is not possible, at least via thief. Stop kidding yourself buddy.

Pics or it didn’t happen. I’ve never even heard of a legit 18K+ backstab with the recent assassins signet change

I’m actually for steal interrupting casting. That is the only think I would find about backstab that truly needs a nerf. I AM AGAINST nerfing raw damage itself, as I feel as if by doing this thieves would take a huge hit in general.

What glowing dagger is that? I want one…

Any sort of speed increase with finisher is awesome…really. It’s saved my butt multiple times

Lets face it

Warrior and Guardian is a boring class. Ranger is pretty fun, but it’s almost purely ranged builds I don’t like. There isn’t many available decent cqc classes, which I enjoy. I’m thinking about making an elementalist though. I hear with the right combo they can dude well in cqc.

epicsmooth.7825:

Doomdesire.9365:

So today I had an encounter with a warrior who knew how to dodge my backstab, knew how to counter it, used immobilization on me(pin down, it was called, rendering my stealth useless) then proceeded to switch to his rifle, and use killshot for 9K instantly killing me, but hey, thief is the only one that’s OP, right? Because burst doesn’t exist elsewhere, right? Because there aren’t other classes that have the same amount of damage, right? Because there aren’t players that know how to counter thief, right? (sarcasm, if you didn’t understand).

Want me to post the pictures then ask.

Don’t know which is more sad that you countered you perfectly or that you couldn’t evade a killshot.

I guess you didn’t read the pin down part (immobilization, I’m guessing you’re a forum warrior who doesn’t play the game). Is it too hard to accept the fact that it is counterable? Or are you just so conceited and narrow minded towards your hatred of thieves to the point where you are outright denying that other players can’t counter it. Good players know what to do. Bad players don’t. Those are the ones that complain.

A warrior killed me yesterday. Used pin down (immobilization, may I note they can also knock you down using another weapon) rendering dodging useless and rooting me. He then swapped weapons shot me once using killshot doing around 9-10K which killed me in under 2 seconds. Warriors are capable of this kind of burst too, people just don’t realize it. I have the pictures to prove it and I asked the warrior. He was not full zerker.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/g1vn9]

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/exkwa

I’ll just leave these here. Also that was a warrior and the pin shot all but rendered thief mobility useless. I did say engineer, meant warrior(although engineers are capable of those kinds of burst, as well).

Which would be the better combo? I’m assuming for a PURE glass cannon build Berserker would be better for precision, but honestly Glass cannon is overrated, however BackStab is still something I want in my build. Would Valkyrie gear work for a hybrid build combined critical damage and vitality? How effective do you guys think this would be?

So today I had an encounter with a warrior who knew how to dodge my backstab, knew how to counter it, used immobilization on me(pin down, it was called, rendering my stealth useless) then proceeded to switch to his rifle, and use killshot for 9K instantly killing me, but hey, thief is the only one that’s OP, right? Because burst doesn’t exist elsewhere, right? Because there aren’t other classes that have the same amount of damage, right? Because there aren’t players that know how to counter thief, right? (sarcasm, if you didn’t understand).

Want me to post the pictures then ask.

Corrupted. Destroyer dagger…as said above looks like a rock

You should check out the AC daggers though, OP. At night they glow and it looks awesome.

Shizzlenit.7648:

Doomdesire.9365:

The results are not worth the risks at that point. You’d have to waste either 5 initiative or a stealth skill to get an weak backstab ( + 10%) dmg. I would much rather use heartseeker and death blossom.

The point is that the boon stacks up. You can have 10 stacks of this, you just have to hit with enough backstabs before. Now, you might say that this is completely OP, but your opponent can counter it if he avoids any backstabs untill ur stacks run out which means you have to start stacking it up all over again.

But you don’t understand that it’s not worth the risk involved. I get the point is that the boon stacks up, but why? It would take 2-3 consecutive backstabs wasting initiative/stealth skills to do as much damage as I can do with more efficient heartseeker. What thief would spam backstab at that point when they can use heartseeker?

sorrow.2364:

Doomdesire.9365:

I’ve said this once. I’ll say it again. The 20K backstabs people are claiming can no longer be done. That has changed and it is now IMPOSSIBLE. If you still think thieves are capable of 20K backstabs then it show’s how ignorant you are on the subject.

None said about 20k damage.
Most people are referring to 20k backstab combo, which includes Mug and CnD. That combo, dear sir, still deals 20k damage.

Tulisin.6945:

sorrow.2364:

Thief can stack up at the same time:
+10% damage with both daggers
+5% damage with Dagger Training
+10% damage with Exposed Weakness
+10% damage with First Strikes

If by “+10% damage with both daggers” you mean dual sigils, they don’t stack unless it was changed recently.

So the base damage of backstab is even higher than the value I’ve calculated.

DanH.5879:

ok then, i am idiot and i rest my case.
still, backstab = 3xbase damage (from the back), what is wrong with that ?
just because buffed goes trough the roof, it affects my build, no, it isn’t a bs build.
but i like to give a 1-2k dmg sometimes with it
i would really want a compensation for nerfing, in other areas. not just nerf and voila, you can play without an arm and a leg, have fun ! (just the 6+nerfs in a row, inclding the dagger storm),i considered the signet thing a welcome buff-nerf.

You are right. Buff will come to something which is weak in comparison.
Backstab needs a nerf, this is sure, Traps, on the other hand, need help.

bwillb.2165:

Sorry, I was trying to get to the bottom of it in a logical, scientific manner. I thought I had finally found someone who was somewhat civil about it on the other side, but I’m starting to think that was a mistake with your last comment there. In any case, it’s possible that there may be a bug in the calculation somewhere. because with the build that a few of your say does [insert number between 14k and 21k here] damage, I see 7-8k 90% of the time, with the occasional spike up to 11k or so, which would kind of support the possibility of there being a bug under certain situations.

So in conclusion, the base damage is fine, the buffs when working as intended are fine, anet fix your kitten bugs.

The point is, I’ve shown you proofs that base damage of backstab when hitting on the back is way higher than 2k damage as you were claiming and it still looks like you don’t want to accept that fact.

Anyway 8k damage on an instant skill which is usually used in combination with 2 other skills which usually hit for 5k damage each is still way too high to be considered balanced.

Read the last 3 pages and go enter some other threads. That was not directed at you, but if you feel like you need to argue about a fact, then go ahead.

The results are not worth the risks at that point. You’d have to waste either 5 initiative or a stealth skill to get an weak backstab ( + 10%) dmg. I would much rather use heartseeker and death blossom.

I’ve said this once. I’ll say it again. The 20K backstabs people are claiming can no longer be done. That has changed and it is now IMPOSSIBLE. If you still think thieves are capable of 20K backstabs then it show’s how ignorant you are on the subject.

This seems like a much more rounded and reliable build than my current one. He does sort of go into it in the description and comments, but I’m still rather confused.

Can anyone here give me the specifics? And maybe some insight on how to improve on that build.

Impossible to get a 18K backstab with new patch changing assassins signet.

sorrow.2364:

bwillb.2165:

sorrow.2364:

It isn’t a matter of people who don’t bother to counter at all, it is a matter of people who CAN’T counter at all because of laggs, rendering issues and the incredible short time thieves’ burst take.

But that’s no different from the mesmer.

Nope, you have more than 5 seconds of warning of the burst coming, when mesmer is spamming his clones. You don’t have this with thieves.
Also, it isn’t affected by stealth rendering issues.

The mesmer burst is also very situational, because there is no real immobilization.

Absoltely not. The visual clue of backstab is almost non-existent,

Okay, feel free to believe that instead of trying harder.

Try what? Do I have to use the power of Force? See the real nature of things? Do I have to see not only with my eyes?

bwillb.2165:

if you use also the trait which puts you in stealth on steal, there is no visual clue at all.

I’ve not seen a single backstab-burst thief with that trait. It requires 20 points into shadow arts, which is a tree that is mostly useless for glass cannon thieves.

20-30-20-0-0
Here you have your burst glass cannon thief with also some survivability.
Oh, I gave you such a pro tip, shame on me

bwillb.2165:

So, list those way. I mean, hard counters, those kind of counters that don’t allow the thief to repeat that burst 3 seconds after.

No. Do your own research and experimenting. The counters are quite easy to pull off, if you know them you can do them, so just spouting them off would be saying “here’s every weakness I have” and that’s not very sportsmanlike. Ever played poker? A card shark playing against you isn’t going to tell you “When I rub my nose, it means I have good cards.”

That’s because there is no real counter, nothing can prevents a thief to repeat his burst if the first one failed.

Unload.
3 Unloads on full power/crit thief can deal up to 16k damage and leave you with every skill on recharge. Plus, it doesn’t use utility slots.

Aaaand you’re done talking.

Try Unload from yourself.

Basilik venom and the giant circle of a signet appearing over a thief’s head is an easy indicator if when he’s about to use his burst.

Mosharn.8357:

@bwillb

my post was meant for more experienced thief players. As they are the only ones who know how to get out of a bad situation fast. The nubs are dead in one whirl but an experienced thief uses stealth skill and spams with 5 skill on SB to get away which dosent mean you can catch them on any given class.

I do not use frenzy on my war. but in wvw takin a 18k hit is a death sentence because that 18k isnt the only amount of dmg you take. I have 22.2k hp so i know this.

And endure has a CD near basilisks CD. Sure it counters it but you wont have it up all the time to count every single basilisk you get hit with which are many as finding a thief alone is hard since they usually run in groups of 2+. Even if you do counter it with endure the thief will reset combo by using 5 skill on SB and comin right back at you with the combo without the venom and you have lost one or possibly 2 utilities by now and your rush/WW on CD while the thief has no CD since the skills are dependent on initiative.
Also no good war uses endure in traits its stupid long on CD and useless since you only buy your self 4 seconds in which your already dead.

@Alistar again after reading your cancerous reply to the other 3 ppl. Forums are to discuss anyone can discuss what ever they want. If you want to delete that then you are basically asking for the whole class topic to be deleted. Nerf/buff calls are common so stop takin em to heart.

Stop with the 18K BS. That before the assassins signet change and that’s now impossible. I have tested with the new patch and the highest I’ve ever got is around 10K tested in WvW on a low level naked ranger with no vitality/toughness(in a controlled enviroment). As others said, all you’re doing is showing you aren’t exactly in touch with how BS works now.

devourer venom, dagger storm, dancing dagger

Basically the goal is to keep him from being mobile. You’re a thief too, so he can’t run as easily.

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

Shilian.5873:

Thieves of all the world, go to roll a ranger and build it glass cannon, then tell me if you still have the guts to complain about your incoming nerf.

That’s very ironical, but ranger was a good class before as glass cannon that DID NOT need a nerf, and it got nerfed to the point where the ranger class isn’t nearly as great, now this is happening to us while warriors and guardians still have the same type of damage.

Are you saying that Guardians have the same burst as Thieves?

The max I’ve backstabbed a squishy with vulnerability was 8K + 5K steal + the normal 4K CND

I’ve seen warriors do 20K+ 100B and kill the guy before he can get up. I’ve seen 11K eviscerates and it could probably go higher with the right gear.

Right, but 100B burst build takes alot of setup and isn’t nearly as ‘on-demand’ as the Thief backstab build. And I was asking about your inclusion of Guardians in that statement. No way is a Guardian bursting for as much as a Thief.

I see I did include guardian, that was my mistake and ignore that, however backstab arguably takes the same amount of setup and isn’t on demand. No way is it on demand and if you do use it on demand (which at this point heartseeker would be much better in almost all scenarios except the original burst) it’s not nearly as effective. Not at all. It’s an intiative killer and requires your target to be off guard and not expecting it. If you’re already in the mud, backstab isn’t nearly as effective as people thinks. That’s a huge misconception. People think thieves can instantly spam backstab. And with the right skillset, it’s possible, but why? Heartseeker at that point would be much more effective and damaging.

Okay, fair enough. So do you feel that a Thief sacrifices as much as a Warrior when speccing full-on glass cannon? I don’t believe they do, not even close. In fact, with the amount of mobility and innate survivability (stealth) that a Thief has, I don’t see any reason why anyone would ever NOT run a glass cannon as a Backstab spec…

Backstab is all about glass cannon, you’re right on that. I’m just trying to point out that the only real danger you face with coming accross a thief is the initial burst, and after that it goes downhill for them. Either they run because they know they lost, or they try and stay and get destroyed. Trust me, even my non backstab condition build was rather squishy. I’ve seen many warriors that I can take on because they would make careless mistakes (running from a thief, evading forward(tip against thieves for anyone out there: Always evade backwards), being hesistant. Thieves are very opportunistic, they take what they can get, and the biggest thing that gets people killed be thieves are small stupid mistakes.

I do believe in fact that thieves sacrifice more when going full glass cannon simply because they are naturally squishier than warriors, but we also have stealth, and it’s all up to interpretation. That’s why Anet should not nerf raw damage just yet. They should fix the rendering issues first, wait a little, then move on from there.

crewthief.8649:

I understand that Warriors can dish out alot of damage. Are you dismissing all the other goodies you get with the Thief profession? Do you think a Warrior does that kind of damage AND has an equal amount of mobility, utility, and survivability as a Thief?

The only survivability that thief has is stealth. Glass cannon builds = almost no defense. A proper backstab uses your elite, and if you want the real damage you see on most of these pictures, probably using 3 signets to get maximum stacks of might. You’d still have some initiative, your stolen skill, and that’s about it. The warrior at this point probably has almost all his skills. I am a thief, and believe me or not, but the biggest burst killer is someone who knows how to counter it. If a warrior knows the range of steal, and knows how to use endure pain, you might as well walk away.

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

Shilian.5873:

Thieves of all the world, go to roll a ranger and build it glass cannon, then tell me if you still have the guts to complain about your incoming nerf.

That’s very ironical, but ranger was a good class before as glass cannon that DID NOT need a nerf, and it got nerfed to the point where the ranger class isn’t nearly as great, now this is happening to us while warriors and guardians still have the same type of damage.

Are you saying that Guardians have the same burst as Thieves?

The max I’ve backstabbed a squishy with vulnerability was 8K + 5K steal + the normal 4K CND

I’ve seen warriors do 20K+ 100B and kill the guy before he can get up. I’ve seen 11K eviscerates and it could probably go higher with the right gear.

Right, but 100B burst build takes alot of setup and isn’t nearly as ‘on-demand’ as the Thief backstab build. And I was asking about your inclusion of Guardians in that statement. No way is a Guardian bursting for as much as a Thief.

I see I did include guardian, that was my mistake and ignore that, however backstab arguably takes the same amount of setup and isn’t on demand. No way is it on demand and if you do use it on demand (which at this point heartseeker would be much better in almost all scenarios except the original burst) it’s not nearly as effective. Not at all. It’s an intiative killer and requires your target to be off guard and not expecting it. If you’re already in the mud, backstab isn’t nearly as effective as people thinks. That’s a huge misconception. People think thieves can instantly spam backstab. And with the right skillset, it’s possible, but why? Heartseeker at that point would be much more effective and damaging.

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

Shilian.5873:

Thieves of all the world, go to roll a ranger and build it glass cannon, then tell me if you still have the guts to complain about your incoming nerf.

That’s very ironical, but ranger was a good class before as glass cannon that DID NOT need a nerf, and it got nerfed to the point where the ranger class isn’t nearly as great, now this is happening to us while warriors and guardians still have the same type of damage.

Are you saying that Guardians have the same burst as Thieves?

The max I’ve backstabbed a squishy with vulnerability was 8K + 5K steal + the normal 4K CND

I’ve seen warriors do 20K+ 100B (against my super squishy thief, mind you) and kill the guy before he can get up. I’ve seen 11K eviscerates and it could probably go higher with the right gear.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/To-all-warriors-guardians-how-do-you-feel-about-thieves/first#post620542

This is what the warrior forum thinks. The majority of them think thieves ARE EASY too kill after the initial burst. The point I’ve been trying to make. Now you want to take away that initial burst and all you have is a glass cannon without the cannon part.

Shilian.5873:

Thieves of all the world, go to roll a ranger and build it glass cannon, then tell me if you still have the guts to complain about your incoming nerf.

That’s very ironical, but ranger was a good class before as glass cannon that DID NOT need a nerf, and it got nerfed to the point where the ranger class isn’t nearly as great, now this is happening to us while warriors and guardians still have the same type of damage.

I use Kodan Pistol and Pact Pistol skins. Both are very nice and they look even better when paired together.

Macallan.9270:

Glad to see the server of SoR has continued to fight honorably. A mob, an AC, and treb fire at spawn…lovely

That dead guy with the “United Sanctum Alliance” Clan tag is me.

:(

No worries, I got tons of siege I saved up while we were spawn camping TC and ET.

They win in DPS, they lose in DPM.

The point I’m trying to make it that everything, every last trait and every last skill is put into a chain that has a 1 second execution time and 60 second cooldow. Anyone out there can dodge twice in the time it takes to execute it, and it is avoidable if you know what you’re doing, and once you avoid it, then it’s over for the thief and you win because he’s got nothing left, skills exhausted, almost half the initiative gone, super low toughness, super low defense.

And it kind of makes sense if you think of it, do it quick and get out of there fast, that’s how I imagine one would be slippery, not using blind (which I find is minimally effective unless again OHK wonders, ie, another backstabbing thief)

Asum.4960:

kKagari.6804:

slippery has NOTHING to do with damage

This.

He wasn’t talking about dmg. He was talking about mobility.

That the Thief was intended a mobile profession (which he is), has nothing to do with the damage he is capable of dishing out.
I don’t get where you drew that connection from.

Besides that, a class can’t be nothing but slippery. What would that class do? Run until it’s reaching 80 and then run back?

Also slippery most often means actually doing a lot of dmg (not slippery means that, but the logical result of being slippery).
A slippery class can’t also be tanky like a rock.
A slippery class would be crap if it would start weak and get better over time of a fight (condition dmg), since it hasn’t the defense to stick around.

A slippery class has to burst out fast damage, and then, well, slip.. away.

I don’t understand what you’re saying. You don’t know where I drew that connection from but you just drew the same connection in the bottom half of your post…I mean exactly what you mean, that a slippery thief without any real abilities besides condition damage doesn’t make sense. A thief doesn’t have the time to stay around and apply bleed, otherwise he isn’t slippery. The whole point of being slippery is to get in and do it fast, then get out, that’s why we have 25% passive signets, shadowstep, stealth.

mbelcikuwh.1379:

i personally doesn’t hate thief..but i’m now struggling on how to counter such thief that can be stealth at his whim…

there’s a thief i met on W3,where we..yes…WE,4 of us vs 1 thief….and we got screwed..fast!

the thing is he can be invisible at anytime he wants..i didn’t know why he is immune to damage controls…i spam hammer burst,stomp,fear and he’s immune all the time and my engi friend’s control seems miss him all the time also

the only thing i can think of as of now is if a group met such thief best prob to just stack to one another…

any other advice or tips i can jave?? :P

Biggest and best tip : Never evade towards a thief in combat, evade away from him and keep your front in his direction.

Also, just because he’s invisible, doesn’t mean he’s invincible. I notice when I pop stealth, people immediately stop attacking and just stand there while I’ve moved maybe 2 feet. You never want to do that. Keep attacking, and your best tool against us is immobilizations, knockdowns, stuns, ect. And AOEs, my god they hurt. AOE is your best weapon.

Adding on to my other post(sorry edit not working…) about glass cannon and tank cancelling it out, I would just like to say that

If you’re a tank build, if you can get away from the first chain, you have this. That’s how it cancels out. Glass cannon will always get the first strike, after all, he’s glass cannon, offensive. You’re a tank, a defensive build. You’re supposed to survive the damage, and he’s supposed to make sure you don’t. His way of doing that is the dps burst, your way isn’t just to stand there staring at him herpy derping. Evade, endure pain when he gets in range, the temporary armor I see, reaper of grenth, knockdown(that’s where you become offensive, which is what I mean above. Stop him before he can get you, if you can), evade, dodge, it all works. Keep in mind a thief is predictable. As soon as he gets in range and after you see him activate the signet/venom you know he’s about to start the chain. That’s when YOU immediately pop endure pain, evade, dodge, try to knock him down before he can start it. Force him to waste his basilik venom and assassins signet on the air, and even if he gets that one backstab on you(never keep your back to him, BTW, never evade forward, evade backwards), it won’t be nearly as bad if the steal and CND does not hit. If you can pull that off, you win. It’s over for him. His only option is escape or death. In this case, use your immobilizations, additional knockdowns, whether it is to keep him rooted. If he’s rooted, he will probably go stealth, keep hitting him, he’s still rooted, just not invisible. IF you can survive that first salvo, then it’s over, you win, and it’s really as simple as survive the steal and CND, which by doing so prevents effective backstab.

It’s up to interpretation. It means nothing if the thief doesn’t have some attack to do inbetween the initiation or the “escape”. Otherwise all it a thief would be is a class that runs away.

Some can argue burst dps IS a slippery thief. Use your skills quick before they can notice and react, then get out of there with all your skills used and a dead opponent, in other words, slippery. You don’t want to stay there doing condition damage. That isn’t slippery.

If you nerf the damage then whats the point of a “slippery” thief? To simply run away? A slippery thief requires some sort of dps burst to be slippery. That’s the whole point.

“It’s not a unbalance, it’s a trade off”

That is the sentence of the day. It IS a trade off. Everything is put into attack. Everything. That means they have no defense, which turns even TANK warriors into extremely damaging weapons against glass cannon thieves. I always see complaints about Glass cannon thieves doing high damages to tanks, and that is the point of a glass cannon build, to cancel out tank builds and everything inbetween, just like a tank build cancels out a glass cannon build.

Just because you have a plan doesn’t mean it’s always going to work.

Glass cannon is supposed to deal massive damage. Tank is supposed to have massive defense. If this is the case, and you’re the tank, it’s time to play offensive. People never realize that a glass cannon thief probably has horrible vitality, and horrible toughness. You probably do as much damage to them on your “tank build/non glass cannon build” than they do as much damage to you, simply because they have poor defense.

The faster you learn that, the faster you will be able to cope with glass cannon thieves.

If you have endure pain, block, that external black armor I see, or illusions, use them when the thief is getting in steal range. Boom, thief wastes everything, you’re still alive with full or most of your health, and he’s as good as dead. Hell, even reaper of grenth(ALL humans have it, I think) would buy you enough time to break the chain, ect. Also you can strike first. As a backstab thief, the biggest thing that always kills my enemy is their hesitation. We feed on your fear. If you’re guardian, charge, use knockdown, don’t give him time to prepare the chain. It’s simple really. And if you ever get lucky enough to catch a thief off guard, then it’s gonna be a loopsided battle in your favor.

Tulisin.6945:

Ensign.2189:

Overarching all of this is this general issue that tanky builds dominate, and that very high burst damage is needed if every fight isn’t going to devolve into a bleed stacking contest.

At the same time, the sort of burst you need to blast through tanky builds totally eviscerates world PvE farming builds.

I’d disagree on both accounts. In the case of the former, “kill them before they have a chance to take action” is a very poor counter to a tank enemy. The fact that it is seen as a viable solution at all means that something is off. The whole purpose of a character building heavily defensive is to draw fights out to give them a chance to wear down their opponent, pouring on more offense to continue to instantly end fights is not, and should not be, the logical counter to that behavior.

In the latter, most of the high-burst setups people are using in PvP are completely unviable in PvE. PvE rewards constant ability to kill enemies at a quick and safe pace, whereas PvP (at least in this situation) rewards a single quick kill followed by a period of recuperation.

Yes, the purpose of a tank build is well, to have massive defense and wear them out, but is it not the purpose of a glass cannon build to be the opposite of that? Too deal massive damage with almost no defense?

I would love to see what more people think. Anyone got anything else to add? :o