I used DD mainly for cripple, and that’s what I will still use it for granted I’m still using a dagger of any sort. The cripple is much more rewarding than any damage it could do, unless there are two extremely squishy glass cannons 2 feet from each other, in which case one DD could really screw them over.
I’m switching to P/D build anyhow. I am an avid hater towards backstab nerfs, as I feel it is 100% counterable so long as you know what you are doing, and imo, it isn’t at all great in pvp or wvw if you think about it. A P/D build looks to be more sustained and damaging overall. Backstab definitely did not take as big of a hit though, it was just never a good playstyle in the first place. A huge nerf would have destroyed thieves as a class.
I’m kind of 50/50 on this patch. I feel as if the culling issues should be fixed. IMO that’s the most game breaking unbalanced area in wVw and spvp. The changes look decent though. The thief class definitely was not destroyed, however you guys have to remember that many changes were made to other classes, possibly affecting the viability of backstab. We’ll wait and see.
It does affect it I believe. I remember a few weeks ago I had a surplus of those. I had the armor one, damage one, speed, regen, exp, magic find, a bunch of guild banners, nourishment and a ultility consumable.
For the heck of it I even put on all my passive signets and when I used “consume plasma” I swear any enemy who clicked my name would not want to dare attack someone with that many boons/boosters.
We are in need of overall high quality players and those who use tactics(like yourself and that portal). If you’re oceanic, even better, however our NA coverage is getting quite low at times. We could use your help.
Is it possible you can provide a little more information?
From your post it seems as if you’re talking about the sword pistol whip combo, but the DPS on that isn’t nearly as high as the frequency of players using it is low. However, backstab build also fits the high DPS and chain part.
IMO stability stomp and haste/frenzy stomp are much more effective. A stealth stomp if pretty obvious if you see a thief use CnD or goes into any kind of stealth at the feet of a down player.
Thief is definitely getting changed, however based on the recent small reveal of the supposedly 5 page long patch notes, rangers and engis are going to see the biggest changes. We’ll just see it plays out…
Bleed the supply. I don’t see enough of that. Station enough players so that you can effectively defend the supply camps. Eventually they will have to respond with a rather large zerg, thereby giving your team an opportunity to strike. I would also have a squad of 5 guys making sure no supply reaches anywhere. This is the more silent and efficient way of doing it. Simply get a small group to go around and quietly cut off the Dolyacks without anyone every knowing.
Personally, I dominate thief underwater combat. I excel in dungeons like HoTW where you fight the underwater bosses. Roll for initiative, basilik, venom sharing, the number 3 speargun skill and number 4 speargun skill are priceless.
Give me a level 80 warrior fully equipped with exotics and I will destroy a bunch of non 80 thieves
No you won’t. Not unless they all stand in your HB and do nothing.
I’ll use my brothers guardian, and I’ll get my friend to use his level 45 warrior. You get 5 non level 80 thiefs (and I don’t mean all level 79) and we’ll play.
Or even better, how about you and a friend get your hands on two level 80 thieves and take out a zerg using shortbow + the skills shown in video, because I know of no thief that can do that.
Unless you are one of those people who stand by idly and attack a veteran Oakheart the second a thief uses shadow refuge.
A zerg shouldn’t have to worry about attacking a vet mob with only two thiefs nearby, the fact they do is a huge balance problem. Daggerstorm should be spammable like that imo.
You don’t have to worry about thieves if you address them. Not paying attention to surroundings is what a thief thrives on. Your moment of weakness, the second you shift focus, that’s what we thieves live on. We are opportunists. I’m sure the thieves would have just ran if they hadn’t attacked the oakheart. Thieves can be easily countered if you address the situation properly, these guys didn’t. The last thing you want to do(this especially goes for backstab thieves) is expose yourself like that. Definitely not a good idea. I’m sure the outcome would have been different if the zerg focused on the thief. However after I reviewed the video again, at almost all times there were only a few guys focusing on the thieves. Hell, even when he used dagger storm only about 2 guys tried attacking him.
Been lurking in the forums here. But this bothers me far too much.
@RamataKahn
You do realize the video is from september 23rd right?
So thieves can’t do that anymore?
Oh they can still do it alright. The only difference is now most people in WvW are smarter than the horrible players in that video. Unless you are one of those people who stand by idly and attack a veteran Oakheart the second a thief uses shadow refuge. I dare you to make a level 80 thief and try to take down a zerg using only shortbow and the same ultility skills. And if you do it, please, by all means share, because none of us thieves know how to take down a zerg like that shown in the video.
A) Not one person targeted in that video was level 80.
Only a few people out of those zergs were actually targeted, since the bulk of the damage done was aoe. And even if everyone wasn’t 80, so what? I’m so tired of hearing this in WvW, guess what kids… you are never going to have all 80s in WvW so stop pointing that stupid crap out.
B) When the enemy clearly has no idea what they’re doing, it’s worthless in terms of balance. We see a total of 0 people attack into shadow refuge, letting them constantly get away from situations that they wouldn’t be able to escape from with one or two decent players of any class in those zergs. Whenever they use dagger storm, everyone also still fires projectiles at them, making increasing their damage output several times over.
Even so, two players of any class shouldn’t be able to that do a zerg, regardless of the circumstances.
C) Multiple changes to the thief have been made since september, and the metagame has shifted greatly as the playerbase’s average skill level has increased since then.
So you are saying that this build and strategy is no longer possible at all anymore?
So you want to nerf something based on the fact that two thieves killed a bunch of non level 80s who had no idea what they were doing? That’s the antithesis of balance right there if I ever heard of one. Give me a level 80 warrior fully equipped with exotics and I will destroy a bunch of non 80 thieves, therefore, using your logic, warrior should be nerfed? You’re argument is falling apart.
Please, for the effing sake of balance, we’re comparing 80 vs 80. That video is a wreck and using it as evidence does not make sense, seeing as not only is it NOT up to date with the various nerfed thieves got, but also the majority not being 80, therefore it IS not accurate at all. Please provide an up to date video showing 80 v 80 (sPVP = the best) and a lot more people wouldn’t dismiss your video.
There is no way for you to know if all the people in that zerg weren’t 80 so don’t even try to say that. And even if they were there is no way two geared out L80 warriors with the rifle bug could come anywhere close to doing that.
Who cares if it was September??? What does that have to do with anything?
It’s ridiculous that you even tried to defend that video.
Yes there is. The green arrow = not level 80. The majority if not all were not level 80. So yes, he can say that. You’re ignorance destroys your own argument. Give me a level 80 any class and I can take down a bunch of non 80s. And the fact that it was in september means two things
Most players were not 80 yet, and starting out on the game
Huge changes to thief have been made since, including a stealth debug
That’s a perfect example of how horrible players contribute to the hatred towards thieves. I mean seriously. They use shadow refuge (Which is an entirely visiable circle to the enemies) and they do nothing but stand there then attack a veteran oakheart. Makes no sense. They deserve to get killed if they’re that bad. Is it not common sense that the thief is inside the shadow refuge circle if you still see it? And even then, why would you expose yourself by attacking a veteran oakheart? Why would you know try knockdowns and pull in the shadow refuge? Why not even hit? That video is a perfect example of a L2P issue. A smart mesmer using his pull wall could have ended the fight there. Just one mesmer. The fact that the entire zerg dismisses the shadow refuge shows a growing trend of ignorance that destroys the game for some players(in this case thieves)
Also, the majority of those players were not level 80. The green arrow on their name indicates not a level 80 player.
Some thieves can one shot anyone that’s the point (for technical reason 3 shot is more appropriate). Also access to stealth + shortbow (not as individual mechanics but together) means thief is very survivable even on glass builds with that much burst damage.
To say it again just because it can be countered doesn’t mean it’s balanced.
Even some of the warriors with 30K HP I see in youtube videos?
A certain post by a developer has prompted huge backlash by the thief community, however there has been absolutely zero communication with Anet and the community following this statement. A huge patch and content released is scheduled for two days from now, and multiple balance changes are going to take place. Without any official statement from Anet, one can only speculation what the changes will be
What are your predictions? What will get the nerfs if any? What will get the buffs? What would you like to see?
Note: This is not for discussion or argument about how OP/not OP certain elements of the thief are. This is simply your predictions and whether you welcome them or not.
I redid it a bit, I got Daze mixed with Confusion.. lol…
That’s a step in the right direction, but it still doesn’t feel right imo. Having ten seconds of daze and not being able to use any skills is rather absurd, that’s why I didn’t understand why so many of you insisted on stun breakers and condition healing skills.
Venom share + venoms last 1 extra strike with a mesmer who summoned his clones
was funny. We tested it on a champion and he was stuck there for about 7 seconds as a piece of rock while we chopped away with him. One can only imagine what a party of 4 mesmers and a thief with venom share could accomplish on a dungeon boss
Just for the sake of imagination. Theoretically speaking, if I were to do a dungeon with 4X mesmers, ones that really knew how to use clones so that at all times there would be 3X clones for each mesmer making a total of 17(12 clones, 5 players) potential applications of Basilik, with the trait giving an extra strike to each venom effectively turning it into 34 applications of basilik venom. And seeing as they stack and each do 1.5 seconds of stone, would that theoretically mean 51 seconds of stone which by then my basilik would have already recharged? So theoretically, assuming nothing goes wrong and there are no factors effecting it(which there will be, this is just for the sake of imagination) the boss should be infinitely stoned?
I just did a small amount of testing, and honestly I thought it was great. I used the thief summoning trap along with my teammate mesmer who summon clones and we all got the venom(including the clones). Didn’t seemed as if it stacked though, can anyone else confirm?
Thanks for the help though bytyan, much appreciated :P
Has anyone tried this? How effective is this? I want to try this build out and support thief by giving everyone nearby venoms, and the thought of everyone having my elite ability and enemies turning into stone every few seconds(or if it stacks, lol) is the definition of awesome. Also as a side note: Does the trait that lets venoms last for one extra strike work using basilik?
Not worth it, especially in WvW. I would much rather just use dagger storm imo
You can’t use Dagger Storm under water.
People don’t even engage in fights in WvW underwater so your argument is irrelevant. Stealing “consume plasma” is better than this.
I didn’t want anything OP, this is mostly for Pistol and Sword Skills and making thieves do more sustained damage.
But it’s not actually sustained..It’s just like burst but as soon as it’s over you’re pretty much dead. You say you don’t want anything OP so you come up with something that is completely underpowered…Why would any thief use this when you can steal consume plasma and save it? Removing the detriments after it’s over is in no way over powered. Consume plasma has the same effects and many classes already have similar skills that have no detriments after.
The only thing I can honestly think of that would make a thief good in wvw and pve is a CD healing/tank build. There are various youtube videos. Try a build similar to this. Link is in his description.
Not worth it, especially in WvW. I would much rather just use dagger storm imo. The 10 seconds of daze is definitely the deal breaker here. Not being able to do anything for ten seconds defeats the purpose of thief. No mobility, no skills, you’re fish in a barrel waiting for even an npc to come over and ruin your day.
Also what’s the point of weakness if you’re already dazed? You can’t use skills anyways…
30 people and you can’t take out one perma stealthing thief? He isn’t totally perma stealthed. Either he has to CnD someone or you’ll see random ‘splosions. That’s the queue for AoEs, pulls of all types, knockbacks(mesmer is the best for this). I can’t see how you didn’t get him with 30 people. Either you are overexaggerating or you guys really had no clue how to counter.
Although it is sort of game breaking and Anet will probably address it at some point. I just can’t see how 30 people can’t figure out how to counter this. Ten, perhaps, but 30? Should have been a walk in the park.
I can’t imagine how you guys would be so mad at this, especially if you’re on a T1 server. I kind of laugh. It’s not like you lost, because you obviously won, they lost even more though because now they have to log in, load the map, and might have to wait for an atrocious queue time instead of clicking respawn at waypoint
Exotics were too easy to get. Gave no purpose in the game to many players including me after earning exotics in a few weeks. This isn’t a treadmill. This is just one step up for the hardcore players. Anet gives the sense that it won’t be overwhelmingly more powerful, and based on the ring picture provided it doesn’t.
The cast time is kind of stupid for 1.5 seconds IMO. Should be instant for an elite skill because it doesn’t work well when you’re in combat(especially for a thief who is up close). The only use for it right now is prepping for an attack (ie backstab)
Hmm, well I can of like the idea honestly. I don’t think it would actually turn GW2 into a gear grind game at all. Right now I’m almost full exotic, and I have no idea what I’m to do after I’m full exotic. Just because they’re adding new gear doesn’t mean it’s going to be a grind. I enjoy earning my exotics, and it gives the game purpose IMO. Unless it’s something stupid like the only way you can obtain it is by looting it off a mob in the dungeon with the loot chance being that of a precursor, I wouldn’t mind too much.
I just came back from reading the article and I have a few questions which hopefully some of you guys can answer…
The first set of ascended gear hitting us (this friday) is only going to be rings and upgrade slots? Will there be any actual armor or weapons coming to us in the coming days? Moreover, can someone explain the condition “agony” a bit more?
Definitely wait for the patch like the other said. I’ve been saving up money (again for the third time due to nerfs -.-) to once again redesign my build. Nobody really knows what the patch will do to thief, but the high damage glass cannon thieves are probably going to take a hit. Don’t think condition damage thieves are going to get hurt badly so I might try one of those.
Asura or human is the best imo, but it shouldn’t really matter, not with that giant red invader tag over your name. It’s just low profile. People tend to go after the bigger targets because they tend to seem “slower” and pose a bigger “threat”.
Just my personal experience. Shouldn’t really matter though, but I rarely see norns. It might work in your favor and some people make think you’re a warrior and will probably expect fighting a warrior since most of them are big guys…
I already used my pact victory token so would that mean I’m unable to get a legendary? Because that would immediately disqualify the majority of all level 80 players.
