I think it could have some serious potential, since MM necro has been actually quite good these days when played by someone whose not a newb, but MM necro was always kinda weak in teamfights since the minions could be cleaved down while the necro could be focusfired without worry of them using spectral armor or whatnot. Now with rise, they’ll get tons of minion uptime and passive defense in larger fights, which I hope turns out to be good.
It will depend on how much health the shambling horrors have compared to jagged horrors, as they’ll still lose health each second making it more of a teamfight oriented minion skill.
My guess is you’d go bone minions/rise!/flesh wurm, and be a clerics support build with quite a bit of support via Blood Magic and Death Nova, with still strong bunkering. Reaper’s Shroud allows you to still be a relevant damage threat. The big thing to me is if the eventual axe changes make axe worth running, or if staff gets buffs, without that a more supporty build can’t work too well, and MM doesn’t want to run double melee.
It’s an interesting approach. There is however one major thing.
From what I heard, Soul Spiral is rather lackluster with Transfusion (apart from healing) as it doesn’t let you teleport downstates even remotely as good as Life Transfer.
The teleport function is identical to Life Transfer, including range. Soul Spiral actually has more pulses to teleport, but that’s rarely important due to the fact it stops teleporting after 5 people. The healing, however, does have reduced range.
You have to remember they spawn on targets hit. The minions were usually never bunched up that much if the skill was used optimally. In fact, I found “Rise!” caused a lot of confusion in PvP when all of a sudden 5 minions popped all over the place… Except for Moa bird transformationist… that’s their queue. :p
Fun fact: Jagged Horrors are the only minions currently in the game that are never killed off by transformations. This is due to them not being tied to a chain skill that gets unequipped.
Given “Rise!” Is also not a chain skill, Shambling Horrors probably will not die to Moa either.
Reaper was certainly lackluster in the first beta weekend, but Robert Gee has already confirmed that those complaints are being addressed, and quite well. Most of those complaints have turned to anticipation.
uhhh Yes Aren you’re right! Nothing seems to add up in our favour. This is going to all the other Necro balances all over again. There is…uhh no hope for the future of Necro. Abandon ALL HOPE!
I just calculated it out. On sub 50% targets, assuming 20 stacks of Might and Vuln (not difficult), this build will crit a 2600 armor target for an average of 10.1k (94% crit chance on them, too).
A bit of setup for that, though. Between that and the cast time, I think this kind of damage is perfectly acceptable. People will need to be wary of a Reaper and really weigh their options when they get low. In PvP, it would probably often be worth backing off and letting the point neutralize while you heal up.
Is that with or without extra crit damage? And what percentage increases did you take into account for that number?
Close to Death, Strength of Undeath, Rune of Strength, and Vulnerability were the multipliers taken into account, as well as crit damage. I ignored the skill tooltips on the site and did the calculations myself.
I chose 20 Might and Vuln because it is easier to get up that high than actually capping it when CC and cleanses exist. 25 on both are quite possible, though (which would be 11.1k crits on average). Obviously, Protection helps, but actual armor ranges quite a lot in PvP.
I just calculated it out for PvP. On sub 50% targets, assuming 20 stacks of Might and Vuln (not difficult), this build will crit a 2600 armor target for an average of 10.1k (94% crit chance on them, too).
A bit of setup for that, though. Between that and the cast time, I think this kind of damage is perfectly acceptable. People will need to be wary of a Reaper and really weigh their options when they get low. In PvP, it would probably often be worth backing off and letting the point neutralize while you heal up.
1 blind and i guess Gravedigger goes into an 8 second cd.
“Suffer!” and Plague Signet are things.
As for the damage, I can see potentially 18k Gravedigger crits before accounting for sigils or buffs from allies. This does assume Scholar rune bonus and above 50% life force, but if you open with death shroud to get them below 50% quickly, I can see this happening.
Its a nice idea but no 1-5 skill in the game breaks stuns. Its either all traits, utility skills or f1-5 skills. Reapers are designed to spend a lot of time in shroud hence the high stability uptime while in it but again no weapon skill in the game currently breaks stun.
Jaya got it pretty much perfect there. Chill only will deal damage if traited, just like Fear. Deathly Chill and Terror both work the same way: both traits deal true damage that scales off your condition damage stat once/second while an opponent is suffering the related condition from you.
A suggestion for “Suffer!” This skill is always going to be compared to Plague Signet and, given that Plague Signet is equally good in a 1v1 as a full teamfight, plus is a stunbreak, “Suffer!” is always going to look bad in comparison.
So, here is my suggestion:
1. Retain 3/4 second cast time
2. Remove Chill application
3. Retain the 1 condition transfer/hit.
4. Add a unique debuff to targets hit that does one (and only one) of the following with a duration of 3-4 seconds:
Conditions cannot be cleansed. Fear can still be removed with a stun break, but not cleanses.
Boons cannot be applied to the target.
Boons currently on the target have no effect (like a boon-hate Resistance).
This differentiates the skill from Plague Signet sufficiently that one is not always going to be better than the other. It also really accentuates the name of the skill, as whoever gets hit will, at least for the next few seconds, suffer.
I was stacking 25 might on the reaper in the BWE without even being aware of it, i wasn’t sure what i was doing, I’d just occasionally look down and see that i had 25 stacks.
Beat me to it. That’s from hitting chilled enemies iirc. Chronomancer can also stack a ton of might, but I don’t see it necessarily being used by many (more work than with Reaper and requires constant shattering, which most don’t want to do).
Nope. Just autoing in Reaper’s Shroud. I never ran Chilling Victory in the BWE and was constantly solo-capping Might and vulnerability without even trying (Might was purely through Minor traits). And maintaining it. Pretty sure no other profession can solo-maintain capped Might (even if just on self) and Vuln (though in bursts, it’s possible).
Chilling Vicotry is a good trait, but this past weekend, Reaper just did not have the chill uptime to make it worthwhile.
The issues of axe go beyond life force generation. It is actually decent for that bit, but basically all the weapon does is damage, and poorly at that. Then there’s Unholy Feast, which is actually a good skill, but isn’t worth the other two skills.
It will work almost exactly the same as Terror, when chill is on a target you are fighting, that chill will deal damage, around 300-350 with condition damage investment (PvP), if they are below 50% that damage is doubled. Honestly probably strong now, remember that it doubles up with Terror if you have it, as any time you Fear you apply 2s of chill, so you will be doing around 1300ish DPS from each fear, 1600ish under 50%.
3 seconds now. Shivers of Dread is going up to 3 seconds.
I believe the effect does last for a second or two once the well goes away or you leave it, though. At least that’s what I noticed when I used it in the past
I think that changed in the patch that made all wells ground targeted by default. It still puts a buff on you, but that buff doesn’t actually do anything anymore. It actually requires standing in the well now.
Which, while the old version was definitely better, this relly is the way it should have been working all along. I can’t get upset about that change.
I don’t know what change you’re refering to but how it works, and how it had been working before the patch, is this:
Every pulse/second Well of Power gives a 5 second buff to anyone who stands in it.
This buff lasts 5 seconds regardless of whether you stay in the well or not.
It converts a total of 6 conditions.
Staying in the well for more than 1 second will refresh the buff icon but not the actual cleansing duration. So if you cast the well at your location and stay in it the entire time the buff icon will last 10 seconds but still only cleanse 6 times.
As I said, that changed in the Specializations patch. It still puts a buff icon on your bar, but that icon doesn’t mean anything anymore. You have to be inside the Well on its pulse for it to remove a condition now.
Also want to add that alot of ppl complained about cast-times and the slow feel of GS, and those remain the same… keep that in mind for next BWE cause here it seems most of u now are fine with that. Basicly opposite of what I read all week…
It’s less that people thought the cast times were too slow and more that the skills didn’t have enough impact to justify spending so much time casting.
So, while I agree with the bug fix on Infusing Terror, the Stability uptime felt good to me. Perhaps the difference in uptime could be made up on base Necro?
It also occours to me that Suffer will be the first transfer we have that can transfer Fear intentionally. The other instant-cast transfers are stunbreaks, and as such remove Fear before the transfer.
Finally, Robert, if the art department is creating a new model for Shambling Horrors, could you also ask if they could make a better visual distinction between bone minions and jagged horrors? Although most people ignore both of them, it would be nice to know which one will blow up before I kill it.
As it was stated before, I think every profession is in a good place, with one particular ele build being over-performing and ranger still being a bit lackluster in team fights. If I had to rank the professions, I’d say the following:
Notice that every profession but ranger sees a lot of use in major tournaments. Anet: fix dd ele, give ranger a valuable, skillful team fight mechanic, and you’ll achieve your best balance so far.
I’d say this is probably the most accurate list. The balance right now is probably the best the game has ever seen, but Eles and Rangers are outliers. D/D Celementalist needs some toning down (in what specifically is a much trickier question, though) and Ranger needs a real teamfight presence. With cleanse spamming, sorry, but Entangle just doesn’t cut it.
Bump: I still think protection should effect condition damage, in the same way that vulnerability now does.
Sure, once we get that boon that lets us ignore direct damage entirely for its duration.
You have Resistance (admittedly, not wide distribution, but it shouldn’t be either) and cleanses. Learn to use.
Something like Invulnerability?
Invulnerability doesn’t ignore condis
It also isn’t a boon and it does prevent new condis from being applied.
It doesn’t prevent existing condi from hurting you. If you got 17 stacks of bleed, you will die in your invulnerability state.
The comparison to Resistance is still a bit off, though, since Resistance can be stripped, stolen, or extended while Invulnerability cannot do those things. Also, Resistnace only stops conditions from doing anything while invulnerability stops every negative thing incoming.
To be clear, I’m not in favor of a boon like Signet of Stone or Defy Pain ever entering the game.
I think I might be the only one who’s not happy with the changes… I actually got used to this skill fairly quickly, learning its limits fairly fast and using it to outstanding effects. I could easily traverse the field and have decent control over my space as well as my foe’s. Able to move through enemies and obstacles without locking onto a target.
I actually feel that a flip skill that could allow us to cancel the charge would have been better. But that’s just me.
Deselect target and you use it exactly as you did during BWE1. Or don’t and use it as a proper gap closer/blind/boon corruption (traited).
Please, take a look at the minors and adept trait tier for PvE. We just don’t have good options.
With the improvements to shouts, I’d say Augury of Death looks more attractive now. Chilling Nova, being available more often and being easier to trigger (due to higher Chill outside of it) can help you ramp up with Chilling Victory.
Honestly, Reaper’s Onslaught will still be quite handy against Mordrem (other non-HoT mobs, not so much).
Still, I think it has a place in a world where a buffed Reaper GS exists. Dagger’s 6% LF every 2 seconds on it’s AA chain is better than 5% LF every 2.5 second, which is what GS will be able to do the next BWE, and that’s not even talking about warhorn, which IMO still has the single best LF generating skill in Locust Swarm.
Plus, if the enemies in Verdant Brink are a taste of what’s to come in HoT, PvP is not the only place the slowness of GS’s AA chain will be a concern.
Dagger is 8% life force every 2.1 seconds (part 2 generates 2%, part 3 generates 6%) for 3.81% life force/second. Greatsword will generate 5% per target every 3 seconds for 1.67% life force/second. Greatsword potentially gets more (at 3 targets, 2 targets is 3.33% life force/second), but in single or double target situations, dagger is superior at generation. Even at higher numbers of targets, dagger can generate more due to being paired with warhorn.
As others have said, if this skill pulsed stab to you and allies it would be really good and might even be worth taking over spectral armor. Currently it’s super weak because it is too inconsistent of a condi removal. Have to stand in the well which makes you and your team super vulnerable to focus, aoes and cc. If it gave stab you could deal with those things a little better.
I believe the effect does last for a second or two once the well goes away or you leave it, though. At least that’s what I noticed when I used it in the past
I think that changed in the patch that made all wells ground targeted by default. It still puts a buff on you, but that buff doesn’t actually do anything anymore. It actually requires standing in the well now.
Which, while the old version was definitely better, this relly is the way it should have been working all along. I can’t get upset about that change.
DoT damage, but the numbers are so low you don’t have to concern yourself with it.
According to Robert Gee, the numbers just got doubled. Given Chill uptime is higher than Fear uptime, it may actually be a decent trait now. I don’t think that will be high enough, personally, but only testing can answer that.
Basically no one will take it because it is worse now, and there a smarter choice to take in the same slot.
Frankly, nobody will take Soul Eater because both of the other choices are good and Soul Eater just doesn’t have much impact except in best-case scenarios. The life steal synergizes nicely with GS3, but not much else. The recharge reduction really requires 5 foes to be strong.
That said, I agree perfectly with the reasoning behind leaving the trait alone. We first need to see how the Greatsword changes play out before the trait can properly be assessed.
Yea I agree increase the dmg output and targets need to put more effort in avoid and substain hence our defence will be improved. I think RS dmg is good however just GS needs a clear boost on most skills. The big drop in Reaper defence is that LF drains faster in RS then in DS, so tested by several players… specially shown in a vid with Rapid Fire draining 2 Full Shrouds… and RS drains ALOT faster then DS so its not only a Melee thing.
And then there’s the 3 cultural armours for each armour weight.
Except for Charr T3 Light cultural armor. Here we have an armor set that can only be worn by charr, and it looks like it was designed for humans. Tail clips, stretching is evident, heck, even some of the claws clip through the shoes.
The stability is there so you aren’t immediately cc’d after using the spell. It’s to stop chain cc.
This. Well of Power is not meant to be a Stability source, that stack is only present to cover the cast time and make sure your stun break isn’t interrupted.
And neither Tempest nor Herald get it on a trait. We still have the trait break bar to be revealed.
That is wrong we don’t know the Herald Traits yet, there could still be a Breakbar somewhere in them.
Not wrong. Both breakbars we have seen on players are on skills. Yes, Herald could potentially get it on a trait too (I rather doubt it), but it should have been obvious that when I say “still have the trait break bar to be revealed,” I am referring only to known facts.
Changing #5 to a launch (see: Banish) instead of a stun would also add some survivability as it would still maintain the long duration incapacitate like a stun, but would get the target away from you. The gap could easily be compensated for by #2 above plus the long activation times on greatsword skills would probably give you enough time to walk up onto the opponent and hit them.
…you want a Reaper to be easier to escape?
Because that’s what changing ES to a launch would do.
Better chill uptime results in better defense via Cold Shoulder and Chilling Victory (plus Blighter’s Boon). That’s the simplest thing to do to buff Reaper survivability.
Doesn’t do a ton unless you survive the initial bursts, but strong chill uptime drastically reduces what you have to survive on round 2 of cooldowns. Even so, the increase in survivability will be comparatively low.
Yeah and considering how revenant has only two stunbreaks, (one from legend swap when traited, the other from shiro skill and they may not have energy to use it) and the other lack of invulns or long duration damage mitigation sources, after their breakbar is broken, they’ll be literally kittened.
Jallis elite is also a stunbreak. Not a good one, but it is a stunbreak.
I still like my idea of a break bar that builds up when the Necro gets CC’d and unleashes something nasty when it fills.
While a cool aesthetic, that doesn’t strike me as very good game design. I’m not generally a fan of game mechanics that punish your foe for attacking you, but at least the majority of those already in the game are fairly mild and minor.
It punishes your foes for spamming disables, not for attacking. It forces opponents to pick their disables and timings a little more wisely rather than just “Lol, it’s a Necro, just lock it down.”
In fact, I would say it leads to better design, since it makes people change up their strategy some while allowing the Necro himself to actually play the game.
Male Charr Necro sounds pretty amazing, it’s so deep and rumbling. “Suffer” in particular has a great kick to it.
I like most of the male Charr shouts, except for “You are all weaklings!” It just sounds so calm and matter-of-fact. It doesn’t sound like you’re turning the tides of battle to crush your foes, it sounds like you’re just explaining to some students that they’re all not particularly strong. It’s more like “You are ALL weaklings.” than “You are all WEAKLINGS!”
I still like my idea of a break bar that builds up when the Necro gets CC’d and unleashes something nasty when it fills.
I wouldnt be surprised if we see something like that in the future (not maybe Hot but a later expansion), after all Anet reads the necro subforum. But in all likelyhood it will not be necros who will get such a mechanic…
Which would be a shame, since there are precious few concepts it would fit better than “horror movie monster.”
Well we were pretty good back when they first introduced dumbfire, but IMO we never should have been given fire anyways. Chill was and still is what should be our staple ability as it chimes much better with the whole death theme.
Dumbfire gave us one good build at the time, and because it was good they nuked it from orbit and made many of our other abilities garbage; I’m looking at you reduced fear duration.
I for one will be quite pleased if Robert can put us on even ground with the other classes in all game modes. Not just in WvW zergs where we are actually wanted.
Wait.. Our fear duration used to be longer? O.o
No, it wasn’t. It actually got increased in the Dhuumfire patch (Doom used to be 1 second no matter the range). Fear duration on Necro has never been reduced since launch.
Very first is bringing 50% of Lingering Curse duration baseline,#3 needs to drop to 10 sec and give more LF,not sure if there is a rule saying only 1 skill per weapon can give LF but LF on Putrid Curse would help a lot,just make #2 a short duration dark field it’s extremely unreliable,Lingering Curse could give an AoE condition damage buff I doubt it doesn’t compete with Weakening Shroud. If we have to stick to scepter only that’s all.
It seems to only be a rule on one handed weapons. The issue with the Scepter’s life force is not that it has bad Life force generation, its that its usually offhand pair, dagger doesn’t have any life force generation. Which by all rights it should.
GS only has 1 LF gain skill or I missed something because it’s so bad staff only has it on all because of a trait another reason why it’s our best hated third wheel. Yes LF gain on dagger would be good probably per condition transferred on #4 and btw conditions specs cough cough bleed have issues but that’s another topic.
Oh, I know that the build we played on was an old one, I just have to laugh about it. Hopefully, these “compensations” will be addressed for the next BWE.
Bare minimum, the longer cooldown on Grasp of Darkness could have easily been reverted in time for the first beta, since it is just one number and not a functionality change.
So after playing during the beta weekend, I logged on with my regular characters and, in addition to the daily chest, I had two others. One contained a Mastery Point, and the other contained the ubiquitous “???” item from the beta. I have a screenshot below to prove the item (notice the access to the Trading Post, which beta characters lack. Also the hero booster that didn’t exist until post-beta).
So I have a few questions:
1. Is this intentional?
2. Will I retain that mastery point when HoT actually launches? Obviously right now, my UI doesn’t show it.
3. If I retain the ???, will it turn into something else when HoT releases?
Blighter’s Boon is honestly competing with Death’s Charge as the best thing Reaper has to offer. It is fantastic. So much life force, if you’re running Spite, it’s a ton of health returned without worrying about Unholy Sanctuary or Blood Magic.
I wouldn’t go that far. It’s a highly situational trait that only really shines in a group environment when you’ve a heavy and constant influx of boons. If you’re by yourself, it’s pretty negligible. With a party however, it’s fab.
Even with just yourself, it generates a very respectable amount of health just from Spite minors and RS3. The life force gain is really only noticeable with YAAW or with allies, but the health gain is significant regardless.
Bhawb, since you asked for coeff/s and I can inform you that they are about the same as the close range coeffs (a bit lower actualy) of life blast, which are 1 coeff/s (If you haven’t already checked it). The whole math can be found on the reddit reaper BW1 feedback thread, the post is linked on the top of the page.
Yes, but you hit much faster in Reaper’s Shroud. The per-hit coefficient can be lower, since you hit so much more often.
Blighter’s Boon is honestly competing with Death’s Charge as the best thing Reaper has to offer. It is fantastic. So much life force, if you’re running Spite, it’s a ton of health returned without worrying about Unholy Sanctuary or Blood Magic.
Inflict Chill (2s) when you inflict Fear. Fear nearby foes when you break stun.
The first half is exactly the same as it is now. The second half is to not only give us another good source of Fear (and thus Chill), but also references the fact that, when you finally get a monster disabled or contained, the last thing you want to see is it shrug it off.
