Guild Wars 2

Gryph.8237:

yeah, im thinking holbrek runes, with the 20% added to condi reduction

Don’t do it! That reduces the durations you send back.

Go Strength instead >:D

Kotte.2460:

overselling it. nah. if you see the potential of it. why is 99% of necrosis crying bout it. do you,know what build I’m even talking,bout

Because the potential of it sucks horribly! You are advocating using weak utilities combined with using our transfers just to prevent dying from our own skills.

Think about that.

The only, I repeat ONLY reason Necros are looking strong right now is because everyone (but Necros, ironically) is playing with Condition builds to try out the changes and one of the most popular traits right now (for honestly only semi-related reasons, bigger reason is the boon corruption and 3 Might) happens to be a 5 condition transfer that only goes off if you can transfer off at least 3. When the fad dies out and an actual meta gets established? Necros really aren’t going to be that good.

insaneseagull.7063:

May I shoot in on this one? Dude,if you spam EVERY corruption skill at the start of a fight you’re not using it properly. And plague in addition to that? What excactly are your goals lol? Just watched 5 seconds of stream where he did that

To see how fast he could kill himself, duh. The entire point is showing just how idiotic Corruption skills are now, which now include our formally most viable heal and only condition elite.

Laraley.7695:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Laraley.7695:

Atherakhia.4086:

Laraley.7695:

Shadow.1345:

Did hell just freeze over? Someone actually asked for a nerf to necromancer?

Necromancers should stop crying about being so bad and unviable, but rather go figure out a build that would work. Having passive stuff like this is not good for the game, that’s just a pure fact.

Oh, get gud? Just get gud?

Why don’t we strap on our get gud helmet, and squeeze down into a get gud cannon and fire off into get gud land, where get guds grow on guddies!

Funny. Last few days I see nothing but necros crying everywhere, then I turn on stream night before patch and I see Nos wrecking 5g over and over. Necros cannot be that bad, huh.

Yes, with a tanky Power build that used 5g’s condition damage due to transfers.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Suicide-build-and-upcoming-buffs/first#post5196253

That should explain why Necros have been bitter the last few days. Condition Necro is so terrible, it can actually 1v1 itself and win quickly.

He was using cele build, power build and I believe condi build at some point, too. Yes, you can get all the corruption and kill yourself, we figured. But you can also trasnfer the conditions or not use all corruption skills at the same time, which would never happen in a real fight anyway. Cry more.

All right, then,what elite would you use in a Condi build? The Flesh Golem, who picks flowers, the Lich Form that does no damage, or the Plague which, on its own, will do ~60% of your health in damage to yourself?

While you’re at it, which heal do you pick?

Power Necros are strong. Condition Necros (which is the iconic build for the profession) don’t have a good heal or elite.

Laraley.7695:

Atherakhia.4086:

Laraley.7695:

Shadow.1345:

Did hell just freeze over? Someone actually asked for a nerf to necromancer?

Necromancers should stop crying about being so bad and unviable, but rather go figure out a build that would work. Having passive stuff like this is not good for the game, that’s just a pure fact.

Oh, get gud? Just get gud?

Why don’t we strap on our get gud helmet, and squeeze down into a get gud cannon and fire off into get gud land, where get guds grow on guddies!

Funny. Last few days I see nothing but necros crying everywhere, then I turn on stream night before patch and I see Nos wrecking 5g over and over. Necros cannot be that bad, huh.

Yes, with a tanky Power build that used 5g’s condition damage due to transfers.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Suicide-build-and-upcoming-buffs/first#post5196253

That should explain why Necros have been bitter the last few days. Condition Necro is so terrible, it can actually 1v1 itself and win quickly.

Grandmaster Lee.9568:

Are you using staff with MM now? I think a while ago you told me it wasn’t worth using with MM. What made you change your mind?

Axe being completely and utterly worthless.

mistsim.2748:

ah thanks. still rough =(

Rough, but you can actually limit its effectiveness with your own play. Low stacks of 3 conditions will trigger it, then you can go nuts.

It’s not health-based. It’s when they get 3 or more conditions, their next crit transfers up to 5. 30 second cooldown base.

mistsim.2748:

necros are so beastly right now. like, so hot.

Except the condition builds, funnily enough.

wolfyrik.2017:

Tim.6450:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I’m thinking Well of Blood will be the optimal choice in PvE due to the DPS boost from Vampiric Rituals and the cooldown reduction. That said, I hate the light field.

What about the SoV?

Bwahahahahahahahha!

Great one.

SoV

You kidder, you.

If you’re looking for DPS on a heal skill, it’s by far the strongest skill in the game for that purpose.

Shiki.7148:

Rising Dusk.2408:

This can’t be right. I worked with them on this, and they confirmed how we previously thought it worked was correct… I need to email someone right away.

They propably just went and changed it on a whim in the last 24 hours. I mean they destroyed Lingering Curse the same way. On the first trait preview it was a buff, on the second it was a massive nerf. Same old story.

New Lingering Curse is in every way better than old Lingering Curse. Unholy Fervor, if it only affects Axe skills, is a flat nerf to the old trait.

Atherakhia.4086:

This is hardly passive play. The only way it’s passive is with plague sending. The rest is active play with Spite and Plague signets with Corrupt Boon.

Were they really using SoV as well? I still can’t imagine using that even over the racial heal or that PvE heal that came out :/

Racial skills aren’t available in PvP.

And Antitoxin Spray is getting removed from the game today.

L Step.8659:

Game needs less passive things not more. I still don’t know why they think signets are good design.

Yet Signets of Suffering is extremely supporting the active play instead.

Richy Lao.8346:

and what about skill points on characters panel?

Also swapped over.

Tissitra.4153:

Lynnie.7213:

I’d take MoC if the skills would inflict more condition stacks on me. Yeah, i am not crazy. If i got inflicted for something around 5~8 torment stacks over 2 stacks i’d send them to foe right away. 8 torment stacks burst is STRONG!

Don’t think I would want that. I don’t like the idea that unless you use a corruption skill together with a condi transfer, you are gimping yourself. This makes you very predictable. With the right timing, your opponent will dodge the transfer and you are out of luck.

I am still advocating that corruption skills should apply their negative effect not just to yourself. Ideally, make MoC corrupt a boon on everyone around you (yourself included) when using a corruption skill. Would make much more sense than self-inflicted condi. These are CORRUPTION skills after all.

What it it made the skills inflict an additional condition on yourself, but both conditions also got applied to foes near you?

skowcia.8257:

Fhenrir.5297:

skowcia.8257:

Taiyetos.3260:

skowcia.8257:

EremiteAngel.9765:

None of the other classes’ condi builds are going to survive us.

Mallyx revenant says hi.

Boon corruption says bye to your resistance.

Go ahead, i will get my resistance back up in 2 seconds. Embrance the darkness can be casted endlessly in/out as you wish, granting you basically perma resistance, so what if you corrupt my 2sec of resistance when i get it back up in 1sec?

Do you have enough boon strip to keep up?

It’s not exactly like you can spam it as many times as you want. Energy will play a big role here.

Embrance the darkness has no energy cost. Its an upkeep skill (which drains energy olny if you stay in this form), in which case if you keep casting it in/out you will stay at 100% energy. I have played in “closed beta” and tested it.

People missunderstand the concept behing Mallyx either way. Resistance is not there to tank conditions like a boss, its just there to nullify a bit of incoming damage and reduce the harm done to yourself. Any mallyx rev stacking resistance is asking to get rekt by 1 boonstrip. There will be a huge gap between noob and pro.

Embrace the Darkness does cost 5 energy, but more than that, it has a 1 second cast time. If you’re spamming it for Resistance, you really aren’t doing much of anything else.

Kodama.6453:

What the…. there was a discussion about the reason of this nerf and nobody wanted to admit it was an advantage in WvW and what’s going on now? XD

Because it was literally the only advantage? And an extremely situational one at that?

striker.3704:

I understand why it only applies to axe, but gating the damage boost behind cripple seems like poor design to me.

Or gating it behind Vulnerability?

Mikau.6920:

To Consume Conditions, they could add a condition to it if they want to keep the “theme”, but not hard as they implemented, something like 3 stacks of vulnerability would make more sense, or other condition. If they already nerfed increasing the cooldown, why apply so many stacks?

Probably because they want to see Necros use other heals. The problem is that none of the other heals are worth slotting (not even the upcoming shout).

blakdoxa.7520:

So obviously there’s no point to traited corruptions. Is there still use for corruptions without the trait? Cause that’s the only way I see it.

On the upside, Corrupt Boon’s cost kinda got reduced. Still just one stack of poison untraited, and one stack deals less damage than before. Considering that was the only Corruption worth considering before in PvP…

Do we have confirmation on that? It was presented as a damage buff regardless of weapon in the Ready Up.

Fun fact: Condition cleansing has never been last-in, first-out in GW2. Rather each skill has its own priority system.

Rym.1469:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Rym.1469:

Bhawb.7408:

Rym.1469:

If he used other runes than Nightmare, he’d maybe even kill himself.

With the poison/bleed duration runes, plus food in PvE I think it should be easy to kill yourself.

Yea, Drarnor already calculated that. I’m curious if we can do the same in PvP though. Was thinking about some signets maybe, for more might? Like replacing CC with Vampirism and maybe one more.

Group of 3 Necros casting Blood is Power is 8 seconds of 24 Might to each, plus a nice long bleed to kick things off. Should be doable with Afflicted runes and duration sigils.

Wouldn’t Krait runes be more optimal for this meta? And maybe weaponswap with Sigil of Battle before?

Krait Runes would be better in PvP, yes. In PvE where you have consumables, Afflicted are better.

Actually, I could probably come up with something that kills you faster still by netting 100% condition duration. 40% food, 10% Toxic crystal, 10% Trapper rune 2 piece, 10% Sigil of Malice, 5% Nightmare 2 piece, 5% Mad King 2 piece, and 10% from one Giver’s weapon.

Rym.1469:

Bhawb.7408:

Rym.1469:

If he used other runes than Nightmare, he’d maybe even kill himself.

With the poison/bleed duration runes, plus food in PvE I think it should be easy to kill yourself.

Yea, Drarnor already calculated that. I’m curious if we can do the same in PvP though. Was thinking about some signets maybe, for more might? Like replacing CC with Vampirism and maybe one more.

Group of 3 Necros casting Blood is Power is 8 seconds of 24 Might to each, plus a nice long bleed to kick things off. Should be doable with Afflicted runes and duration sigils.

Cecilia.5179:

aspirine.6852:

Gryph.8237:

LOL OMG THE GUY ON THE TWITCH STREAM RIGHT NOW LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To be fair he did blood is power also, but the skill basicly sucks now :P

What’d he do?

In PvP, he equipped Master of Corruption on a Rabid amulet, then popped all the corruptions but Epidemic.

Brought himself down to 6k health from full without even trying.

Gryph.8237:

LOL look at this guy online right now. ITS TERRIBLE LOL!

link? The blog post is showing nothing.

Bhawb.7408:

Necromancers will be the kings of 1v1. So strong in fact that they can 1v1 themselves with no enemy input needed!

And they’ll do it in less time than it takes for Consume Conditions to recharge!

Lordrosicky.5813:

We need to all post videos on the forums of how we 1v1 ourselves to show how stupid these nerfs are

That’s how we should celebrate in LA!

nekretaal.6485:

You’ve got the rune of the afflicted. So when you down yourself with your elite, you can inflict some death nova quality damage.

If you also have the Death Nova trait, do they both go off? I don’t know.

Bhawb and I just tested. Spotter works on minions, so Vampiric Presence should as well.

So, I’ve been running some numbers, and here is what I’ve found:

For equipment and skills: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNArYGDV32dj5N83AA-TFyBABEcEAW+UAAwDAIl9H4S53mq/4n+gzUCGAABYmlZZOzADdoDdoDdoNzZO0ZO0ZWKAYWWB-w

For traits: http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQB6ALcA9Q~

Assuming 25 sigil stacks, but no Might or Vulnerability on yourself and no banners, you will have 2405 Condition Damage. Plague will deal 16,510 Bleed damage and 13,172 Poison damage for a grand total of 29,682 damage you dealt to yourself.

In Plague, you have 37729 health, so you won’t die there. The few seconds after leaving Plague is key.

Long story short, you leave Plague at 31% health (5956), then take another 1238 bleed damage and 908 poison damage for a total of 2146 damage after leaving Plague. It doesn’t kill you, but you’re left with 3809 health. From full. From your own elite.

However, if you first cast Blood is Power, it is a guaranteed suicide. Before accounting for the Might, the self-inflicted damage increases to 37937. After accounting for the Might (8 stacks, 8 seconds), the damage is increased by 1024, to 38960.

You also forgot 175 condition damage from runes in your calculations, plus any bleed duration or extra condition damage (Undead runes) that may be present. Undead Runes are particularly troublesome to calculate as Plague does a massive boost to your Toughness.

Factoring in the 175 from runes but no other modifiers we are looking at 1627 condition damage, which results in bleed ticks base of 148. Assuming you already have 10 stacks of Corrupter’s Fervor before popping Plague and maintain those stacks, it’s 118.4 damage/bleed tick. Times 48 for the bleed ticks you will have just for being in Curses, and you are looking at 5,683 damage you dealt to yourself even with a Grandmaster trait reducing it by 20%!

That’s as much as you would probably take from a Backstab in that same situation.

Yes, the numbers I had before were average WvW/PvE numbers. In PvP, it will be lower. In PvP, you are still effectively Backstabbing yourself for using your elite.

Zealot’s gear exists.

That said, it should be at minimum a 10% conversion. Should probably be higher since Healing Power doesn’t have the 1,000 point head start that Toughness and Vitality do.

striker.3704:

A maintained 2 stacks of bleeding on yourself honestly isn’t that bad, idk why people say the skill is kill now because of it.

You have no condition cleanse or healing skills inside Plague, and even if you did, it would not be worth cleansing due to the short duration, pulsing nature of the bleeds.

Your typical condition build will have ~180 damage per bleed tick for 48 effective ticks (thanks to Barbed Precision), for a total of ~8640 damage that you dealt to yourself. This is without any extra bleed duration at all. Just adding a koi cake boosts the damage you deal to yourself to ~11,520. And this is before accounting for any Might!

Get it yet? It’s really, really kitten obvious if you run a couple numbers.

Consider each stack of Signet of Vampirisim will look like this after the patch:

241.2+(.084* Power) reduction ignoring damage
470.4+ (.24 Healing Power) healing

5 stacks consumed is a total of 1206+42% of your Power in damage.
It is also 2352+ 120% of your Healing Power healing.

Keep in mind that, if you have Blood Bond, you are guaranteed 150-450 Healing Power from Last Rites, regardless of your gear.

NeHoMaR.9812:

Bhawb.7408:

NeHoMaR.9812:

Not sure If people is missing something here, or I am, but Plague is going to add a maximum of 2 stacks of bleeding at the same time, that is nothing, by the time you get the 3rd stack, the 1st one end.

People have calculated it, it is effectively 40 ticks of bleeds, and that is with no added bleed duration, and they will tick for at least 180 per second in a condi build. A very conservative estimate puts it at dealing 7200 damage to yourself in a condi build, but you could easily go over 10k self damage, just to use your elite. This also doesn’t include whatever the MoC condition does.

I use Plague as an emergency button, to escape in WvW, and normally cancel it in a few seconds, the main benefits I like more is the increased toughness/vitality and stability, that part was not nerfed. I don’t see the bleeding nerf as big as others see it, of course I don’t like it. Also, I use a Power build, so how much bleeding damage I could get? I think I am not going to notice it.

In a Power build, you will probably only see 920 damage taken from the self-bleeds, though each Might stack you have increases the damage by 90 total.

However, condition builds really don’t have a good elite. Lich Form does lousy damage if you don’t have good Power and Flesh Golem still kitten s around. Now Plague also does half of your opponent’s jobs for them.

Kain Francois.4328:

Just a reminder that Poison will stack with each pulse.

Oh yeah, we still have our 20s permablind on skill#2.

Plague will become a VERY powerful elite.

That nukes the user for ~12k damage easy.

Yeah…no. You don’t use Plague for the damage now, and you won’t after the patch. Pos-patch, Plague will be useless.

Tim.6450:

flow.6043:

I could have sworn that transfers hadn’t always worked like this, but considering Tim’s test is rather old, I’m not sure anymore. :/

You’re not the only one. Drarnor has said the same to me as well that time.

Yeah, I made a mistake back then. Things have always been unclear with transfers.

Rym.1469:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If you’re going Vampiric Wells, then Runes of the Grove are good syngery. +30% Protection duration nets about an extra second, and the Healing Power is useful for siphoning skills (traits…you might get 1 more health).

Plus, I’m a fan of the root. That root is actually infinite range, so in PvP, it can help you catch up to a longbow Ranger.

That root rune got banned on Angz duelling server for a month or two due to me exploiting it on Ranger focused on condi duration and broken long CCs with Moment of Clarity from Boar xD.

So? One small sub-group on one server using unofficial rules temporarily banned it. Is that really a reason to not use it?

If you’re going Vampiric Wells, then Runes of the Grove are good syngery. +30% Protection duration nets about an extra second, and the Healing Power is useful for siphoning skills (traits…you might get 1 more health).

Plus, I’m a fan of the root. That root is actually infinite range, so in PvP, it can help you catch up to a longbow Ranger.

Right now, there is a lot of stress running around in-game in anticipation of the Tuesday patch. A lot of people aren’t playing until then to try out the changes while others are irked that their favorite build will be drastically changing (for better or worse).

Tuesday will be what is literally the largest balance patch in the game’s history. People are antsy about the numbers of changes coming.

My advice: Tune it out for a few days. Try again Tuesday afternoon or so. It may change quite a bit once people are able to start actually doing something new in the game again.

Breedlove.1245:

Has anyone thought about the fact the Skill 4(Putrid Mark) with the staff also gets rids of your Conditions? Use CC and use that skill. We have SO many ways of getting rid of conditions. Wether that be with Wells, Corruption Skills, Staff, Heals, Etc.

And the fact remains that you have to follow your total cleanse skill with a cleanse skill. And also follow your heal with another skill just to prevent your own heal from getting you killed.

And the fact that by the time you can transfer 4 seconds of Vuln to an opponent, you’ve already lost a very significant portion of said duration.

Plus the whole thing of the fact the skill was balanced before and they nerfed it in literally all situations. Yes, traited, you have a shorter cooldown, but now you’re also taking 10% (or more) damage and have some other disability.

Gryph.8237:

Seriously using racial elites now as the others for a Condi build are simply terribad. No thanks plague on a condi build with high condi dmg and bleed duration will slap us for over 10dmg. Hahah

Missed a “k” there after 10

I’ll be using Mistfire Wolf, personally. Lots of burning that inherits your condi damage and Chill (that may or may not inherit Deathly Chill’s damage, will have to see once HoT comes out).

By the way, Flesh Golem got nerfed too (not nearly as much). It already ignored the impairment of Chill and Cripple on Charge, but now it won’t benefit from Swiftness either. So yeah, all Necro elites got nerfed.

DEATHsCLAW.1978:

flow.6043:

A quick comment because I’m just half way through the podcast:
Carrion will still be a lot better than rabid.
Rabid will get a bigger bonus on Target the Weak and the additional sources of healing traits will give you a better healing effectivness against direct damage, but the fact remains: life force scales with vitality and lf regen is percentage based. This and the fact that conditions in general might be more potent in PvP will still give Carrion a better overall defense.
As for damage: power>precision.

wtf??
I might be wrong but right now LF doesnt scale with vitality anymore.. and I dint read anything about this coming back. or did the mention that??
because right now I’m pretty sure LF doesnt scale with vitaliry at all nice we got about idk 10-13k LF in pvp? back in the times as it still scaled we had no problems getting 18-20k LF

I might be wrong though..

You’re wrong. Max Life Force is a percentage of your max HP. Boosting your Vitality thus boosts your Life Force pool.

Or, how about it doesn’t get a sacrifice? It was balanced without one, so why change it? The Corruption tag is meaningless outside of the Master of Corruption trait, which adds its own cost.

Already uploaded. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD_DPcFdRFQ

mistsim.2748:

why are people crying about necro? they got some very strong buffs.

Because their one viable heal and both viable elites got butchered.

Without any other skills getting buffed to help take their place.

Gryph.8237:

So no one will use plague?

Power builds in zergs might. Nobody else will.

Bhawb.7408:

Kill? No, however Plague will deal about 9,000 self damage via bleeds on a condi build, according to Drarnor’s math.

Assuming you have no bleed duration but Hemophilia.

Typical condi build could easily deal 15k to themselves with the self- bleeding.