Lets Chat: Revenant Masters of the Mist
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180
At no point did they ever say a Revenant lacked cooldowns.
D is a bit trickier, since we don’t know exactly how taunt works right now. If it works like fear (your path is calculated at time of cast), then it’s only slightly better than fear. However, if the character follows the taunter even if they move it’s potentially much more powerful than fear, since you have much more control over your targets path.
Fear’s path is recalculated constantly. That’s why Necros can Fearchain so well with Spectral Wall; they “herd” people through the wall multiple times. This requires cripple or chill on the victim, but it is completely doable.
Taunt will not likely be any different on that front.
Lets Chat: Revenant Masters of the Mist
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180
I think an important question then is around how many legends will there be to unlock, and how many can we slot. Because if the legends are the options then in my opinion for it to not feel like a kitten there needs to be an equivalent amount of choice to another profession with their slot skills.
Complete spit balling, but I think I would be happy with 12 legends to chose from and the ability to slot 3 in. (a pool of 60 skills and the ability to chose 25% of them at once.)
Confirmed you can only slot 2 Legends.
Not quite the case.
All intensity stacking conditions operate on a first-in, first-out priority system. If you have 25 stacks of 2k condition damage bleeds on something, the 0 condition damage idiot that applies a bleed will shove off the oldest bleed on the stack, even if it would do massively more damage.
Duration stacking conditions are a bit different. The most recently applied iteration is the one that ticks. The other stacks are “on pause” until each one applied after them runs its course. However, there is a key difference with duration stacking in that once the stack cap is reached, it’s the newer conditions that aren’t applied.
I’m betting Resistance will convert to Burning, Fear, or 3 stacks of Torment. Fear is the least likely of the three, but since the stronger boons tend to corrupt into the stronger conditions, I think it will be one of these three.
If it converts to Vulnerability, that’s kind of a kick in the teeth to Necros.
In B 4 Berserker Stance applies a strippable ‘Resistance’ rather than blunt immunity to conditions.
No no, this boon is actually much, much needed against an assault that was otherwise completely overpowering.
Changes like this push people out of min-maxing into condition builds, it’ll force people to build more dynamically. Good! About time!
I’m not sure “everyone plays Celestial” is “more dynamically” Because you are either focused (what you call “minmaxing”, though the term is not very good at describing what usually happens) into something, or you play Celestial.
quickness reduces the distance traveled? seems more like a bug to me… but effects which reduce movement reduce also a traveled distance, so I would rather count with this option
Yeah, the speed you travel doesn’t change with Quickness, but the time you travel at that speed is reduced. This is also true for any other dash or leap skill.
I think it’s quite possible that Slow will increase the range of these skills.
I imagined the following funny scenerio: You cast taunt on them at the same time as they cast fear on you.
Impromptu Benny Hill chase?
Reaper’s Protection on Necros would probably cause this situation a fair amount.
How will resistance and taunt do anything but help pve?
Resistance:
Oh you mean I will actually have to pull out my boon strip skill and use it intelligently? Oh noes!
Except a few classes will become the designated boon removers while nothing changes for the rest. Yay for roles and success-critical classes. Not.
Wouldn’t be critical to have one, just optimal. Funnily enough, the best boonstrip classes are the two almost nobody uses in PvE. It’s almost like ANet was trying to give Necros and Mesmers more of a role in HoT PvE.
No one uses boon strippers in PvE because they are worthless. You can strip a boon(s) every 50s (except thief who can do it based on their energy)… too bad PvE enemies have 5s CD’s on their boons… this means you just wasted a utility slot and gained no advantage.
Longest cooldown for a boon stripping skill (outside of Lich Form 5’s practical cooldown) is 40 seconds, and those skills mass-strip (Corrupt Boon, Well of Corruption, and Null Field). Literally every other boonstrip (trait, skill, and sigil) in the game is 20 seconds or less.
As for boon application, ANet has been getting better. Aetherblades apply high duration, long cooldown boons, as do Mordrem Menders and Mordrem Wolves (granted, Swiftness is not an important boon to strip).
The important thing to remember (They even said it in the article) is that resistance is an effect that already exists in the game, by making it a boon they’re making it strippable and counterable.
This is a nerf to the effect, which makes them able to make it more common.
Not exactly. Currently, there are no effects where the conditions remain on you, but don’t have an effect. There are effects that prevent new conditions, but those leave the existing conditions alone.
They are similar, but have very important differences.
@ITheNormalPerson: The mobile wall thing on Revenant is just a projectile block, not a reflection.
Quickness isn’t necessarily a boon that can be stripped/stolen etc right? Or am I mistaken? Wouldn’t that mean we can’t transfer slow?
Quickness is not a Boon, but Slow is a condition. So yes, we should be able to transfer it.
There will be only 1 weapon/spec
+ do not touch my staff, used in almost every spvp build.Mesmer specialization is shown using two weapons actually.
It’s shown using Sword (which they already have) and Shield (which is new)
How will resistance and taunt do anything but help pve?
Resistance:
Oh you mean I will actually have to pull out my boon strip skill and use it intelligently? Oh noes!
Except a few classes will become the designated boon removers while nothing changes for the rest. Yay for roles and success-critical classes. Not.
Wouldn’t be critical to have one, just optimal. Funnily enough, the best boonstrip classes are the two almost nobody uses in PvE. It’s almost like ANet was trying to give Necros and Mesmers more of a role in HoT PvE.
Good idea: Taunting a Necro who is using axe.
Bad idea: taunting a Necro who has Locust Swarm going and is using daggers.
The only thing I have to comment on for that skill is that Necros have been wanting something like that for a long time.
I’m hoping Necros get good access to Slow. It’s something they rather need.
On the flip side, the introduction of Slow may finally get ANet to realize just how godawful long some of the Necro weapon skills take to cast (Spinal Shivers).
Would work really well on downed players in PvP with the cleave and reflection, if it did a bit more damage. For a 5 second channel the dps is quite low.
Now it only reflects what’s in front of you (90 degrees) and destroys everything to the sides and behind you, right?
Reflects in all directions. Still could use a bit of love.
What New HoT Tidbit Would You Like to See?
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180
The Revenant pretty much has to be talked about before PAX East (since it’s part of the demo), though guild halls can probably be held off until after then.
The Mangler’s massive AoE attack is not actually an insta-down. Necros and Warriors at full health will survive it with about 5-10% of their health left over. Very high damage, but it is finite and survivable.
Necros are focused first because they’re so good in team fights. Let the necro live and you’ve pretty much killed yourself/team.
Also true with staff elementalists, engineers, rangers, thieves…
Anyone really. Giving anyone free reign during a teamfight usually ends in you losing that fight. Necros are in no way unique on this. They are unique in how easy they are to focus.
Rather than yet another stunbreak that builds life force (three of ours already do), I’d rather see one that just has a short cooldown without a massive pre-cast.
I’m not so sure the Revenant channels the dead. Both given examples of legends to channel were immortals, neither of which we can really say as being dead. Since The Mists hold echoes of past, present, and future, I think the Revenant channels echoes of legends, rather than the souls of the dead.
Blind will always be the first condition to transfer when using transfer skills no matter how many conditions are on you, provided that targets are in range and did not block, los, dodge, evade or otherwise go invulnerable. This is one of the things Anet actually did fix as transfer skills used to always fail if you were blinded.
Deathly Swarm does not have Blind in its top 3 for transfer priority(somewhere close to the bottom), so if you have Blind and 3 other conditions on you, you likely fail to transfer anything at all with it. I have actually never transferred Blind with Deathly Swarm (it’s always missed). I recall patch notes clearly for Plague Signet and Putrid Mark to do so, but never any for Deathly Swarm.
I have also used Blind to cause other Necros to miss their Deathly Swarm, so it definitely does not always transfer Blind.
According to this thread – http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2vv2qf/necromancer_gs_attack_animation/ – it’s Ranger’s attack animation.
The thread is wrong. Marjory’s attack chain involves four hits, the last two being very rapid and the third applying chill. Ranger greatsword involves three hits, the third being the slowest.
Marjory’s animation also has the classic Necro green-black particles and completes much more rapidly (about 2 seconds for the entire chain) than the Ranger auto attack (about 3 seconds for the entire chain).
(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)
No screenshots, but I calculated that an 8k lifeblast on a 3k armor target was quite possible, and for that matter, even on the lower end of some circumstances. Haven’t double-checked since the Might nerf, but I suspect it is still quite possible.
Pretty sure nobody thinks old mobs are “high damage” outside of high fractal scale (and then, only because of crazy stat inflation) and champs/legendaries. Mob damage is, frankly, weak.
@Gruocs: They very much would be the most difficult. Some of them would actually survive the burn and Mordrem tend to spread out a lot more anyway, making the pulls more difficult.
Seriously, quit comparing Fratal 50 mobs to mobs that have never been seen in dungeons or fractals.
Of course something with triple the stats is going to be more difficult than a better designed mob with regular stats. Instead of comparing what is equivalent to an uplevel in greens to full ascended, why not make a better comparison?
If Mordrem showed up in Fractals, I can guarantee that would be the most difficult fractal by a wide margin.
I have more trouble with immobilize spam than “harder” CC like stunlocks.
Putrid Mark and Shrouded Removal are great answers to immobilize spam. Putrid Mark makes it someone else’s problem :p Shrouded Removal has Immobilize pretty high on its priority (not quite top, but very close).
No, Necro blinds do suck. 3/4 second cast on Signet of Spite, 2 second cast on Haunt (all done by Shadow Fiend, though), slow projectile speed on Deathly Swarm. All of those are worthless for blinding particular attacks. Yes, you blind your target, but they get the choice on what skill misses. Well of Darkness and Plauge are good for their pulsing ability, but are limited to melee range/easy to escape.
Now, the skills with blinds are good. The blinds themselves are not.
Other professions can do those, sure. But how much damage do they have to sacrifice for those?
Rangers don’t really have to change much for cripple, since that naturally comes in their high-damage rotation (sword auto), but Warriors would. Weakness is likewise not a part of damage rotations on most professions. You know who has both in their highest damage rotations? Necros. Who has strong condition clearing in their high-damage builds? Necros, Rangers, and staff Eles. Who has boon stripping in their damage rotations? Necros and Mesmers.
Saying “but other classes can do X better” is true (other than cripple and chill, Necros are easily applying 100% uptime of both), but it depends how much sacrifice they have to make to do X better on whether or not the meta changes. Necros really don’t have to make sacrifices to debuff well. Other professions do.
No, that is the case now. It very much can change with different design. PvE can very easily become a place where debuffs are much more effective than buffs.
I agree, Necros do need a few things, namely finishers (blasts or whirls, either would work) and some projectile defense (since they are literally the only class with none). I don’t agree that AI changes would not be able to drastically alter the meta.
Care to explain how PvE can “very easily become a place where debuffs are much more effective than buffs”?
Lots of boon stripping, but not much condition removal.
Kinda like Mesmer builds :p
In a more subtle sense, look at Mordrem teragriffs. They aren’t that hard to kill even without boons, but their charge attack is really, really rough. Cripple, chill, and immobilize are all incredibly important to use against them. Trying to melee them without those conditions is rather difficult. Sure, you can dodge to avoid the damage and knockdown, but now the Teragriff is waaaay over there and your DPS drops to 0. If you were trying to range it instead, now it’s likely in your face.
Are they only one example? Yes, but they are an excellent case where debuffs are more important than buffs.
A hypothetical one that is likely to come is enemies that use their endurance bar. Against those, Weakness on the target is better than Protection on yourself, because it is a similar damage reduction level, but more importantly, it drastically limits their dodging.
Yet another with Weakness is enemies that crit frequently or have high Ferocity (or both!). Since a glancing blow is half the non-crit damage, Weakness can prove to be more effective than Protection as damage mitigation.
(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)
Plus, Guardian blinds are good. Necro blinds suck. All about the time between activation of the blinding ability and when the blind actually takes effect.
No, that is the case now. It very much can change with different design. PvE can very easily become a place where debuffs are much more effective than buffs.
I agree, Necros do need a few things, namely finishers (blasts or whirls, either would work) and some projectile defense (since they are literally the only class with none). I don’t agree that AI changes would not be able to drastically alter the meta.
(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)
Hypothetically? Devil Trigger from Devil May Cry (not the stupid reboot). A different name, perhaps, but I think it could be very fun to play with.
The main problem is that changing life force from fueling death shroud to anything else requires a massive infusion of traits and skills for defense. More than I am willing to bet any specialization will deliver.
This has been explained so clearly, so many times, so I’m going to assume that it is not that you don’t get this…but that you don’t want to get this. I’ll repeat one last time and I’m done. The reason necros are not wanted in higher end PvE instanced content is because of their lack of party support via boons and utilities, weak cleave options, and the ineffectiveness of condis vs direct damage. Higher end PvE instanced content is about each player providing things that keep the other players alive and help kill the mobs faster. If you aren’t bringing that more than the next class…then you aren’t wanted versus that next class. The encounter design can change, but that basic set up isn’t going away.
While you have some good points, I feel Balekai has the right of it. It’s one thing to say “this is the meta, and Necros just don’t fit,” but Balekai is asking why is that really the meta? In PvP and WvW, the most skilled players usually don’t wear Zerker gear and never stack & smack. Why do you think that is?
Necros are good/decent in areas where we are facing other players, but not against mobs. Again, why do you think that is?
Balekai, I believe, has hit the nail on the head. Most enemies are just designed such that what Necros do bring just isn’t any help against them compared to other professions. Mordrem, toxic alliance, and aetherblades were all designed in ways that what Necros bring is actually useful.
Consider the husks at triple trouble. Necros are actually in demand for husk teams because of Epidemic and good condition damage in their own right.
I predict that in Heart of Thorns, Necros will become far more desirable if the AI is more advanced than current Mordrem.
I’ll throw my name in the request for separate ques. Stronghold looks fun enough that I don’t want to rely on RNG after RNG to actually play it when I want to.
Especially if the plans are to add more maps to it in the future.
Do any of you use scepter 2 and/or dagger 5?
All the time, because they hit hard in condition builds.
That doesn’t sound like we will fight our opponent in the air, but rather something like dropping bombs or getting a better location to fight them from. After all it says “use the air to your advantage” not “use the air to engage.”
Does not sound like hang gliding will be a method of fighting, but rather something to do while fighting.
Combined with the fact that we know, at least early on, that all skills are locked while gliding, and ariel combat seems downright implausable.
Where did they say you would fight anything in the air? Please, link it. I have gone over everything they’ve announced regarding HoT (save yesterday’s Ready Up) and not once have I heard we will fight anything in the air.
In my opinion this will benefit more people than it will harm, however the only way to be certain is to give it a trial run.
You keep suggesting that your idea is going to benefit more people than it harms yet 1) no one really has population statistics outside of Anet and 2) if the higher tier servers have enough population to spread out across all 24 servers and still be able to have large scale battles then that means most of the people are actually in the higher tiers. Like, there’s a reason why Anet divided Gold, Silver, and Bronze at 6, 9 and 9 servers rather than 9, 6, 9 or 9, 9, 6. That’s why what you’re saying makes little sense.
You act like this idea is an attack on higher tier servers. It’s not. This won’t suddenly triple the queue time in T1 because those servers are roughly equal in size.
If they implemented the idea this week the only servers that would take a hard hit would be SoS and Mag because they are in the wrong tiers and the population difference is so ridiculously large. However the servers that they are paired up against would actually have a fighting chance leading to a much more enjoyable match once you were in game. Over the long run the population size of each server would be more of a steady slope upwards instead of drastic jumps. This would lead to more variety in the match-ups and a healthier game.
No, but it would hit T2 hard. Dragonbrand has low NA presence, but high SEA. Fort Aspenwood and Maguuma have high NA presence, but low SEA. The net result if your “solution” were to be implemented? T2 would become low population all the time with massive ques for one or more servers.
Currently, this is considered a pretty even matchup, so why try to punish it?
You also haven’t addressed how it would work for the borderlands. Those maps are usually dominated population-wise by their home server, but your idea for a floating cap means they would have much of their population locked out simply because the other two servers don’t have as large of a presence there.
(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)
Limitations breed innovations… the bar will force you to be more creative with how you use the ability, and that idea is much more fun than gliding wherever you want without threat.
Agreed in full. I’m glad they have gliding endurance, as it makes the game more challenging in a way that isn’t bigger numbers on enemies.
[Suggestion] Use for ascended rings.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180
Clearly the effort to get them isn’t high enough to get a big reward, since people are complaining about how many they have.
People are complaining about how many they have because they’ve been doing fractals for over two years. It’s not like they got this many rings in a month.
People were complaining about how many they had within two weeks of the release, so yeah, they kinda did.
Threads asking for things to do with excess rings are almost as old as the rings themselves. The answer was even implemented in the same patch as the rings were: merch them.
do any of the necromancer weaponskills have insta-cast?
No. I think only Eles and Mesmers have instant cast skills on weapons.
@OP: I use dagger 2 all the time. It’s not used for DPS, but sustain, as well as stealth-hitting, kiting (once the channel starts, facing is irrelevant), and dealing with kiting. Dark Pact could use a shaved cast time, but dagger is well designed with each skill serving a distinct purpose and being good at that purpose.
Spinal Shivers, though… yeah, that cast time is unnecessarily excessive.
A zerker necro is better than a 2nd warrior and I see multiple warriors all the time in zerker pugs. If a pug would allow multiple warriors there’s nothing wrong with bringing a zerker necro to that group.
Pugs don´t stack might via PS or Ele. And a necro without might from other players is worse then another warrior.
I’ve been in a lot of pugs that stack might. Even without, a Necro can self-stack better than a warrior can. If Warrior 1 is bringing the banners, then yes, a Zerker necro is better than a second warrior.
I have to say, this thread is a great example of why I love the Necromancer forums: we might be a cynical bunch, but we are very civil to each other, even when we disagree.
Will make my job easier once profession forum specialists start, that’s for sure.
I like how everyone was saying how hard it was to make gold when the game started…
…when you could just Zerker CoF P1 farm your way to an auction house precursor in a single weekend since they were only 30g-90g, you got 1-3 gold a run, and a run in COF zerker gear with 10% flame legion damage sigils took only 10 minutes.
Except gold rewards for dungeons were not in the game when everyone was complaining like that.
@Terrorsquad: Actually, we do know better. Colin stated in one of the interviews shortly after the HoT announcement that we will never see new tiers of gear in GW2 from here on. Before that, we also had been told that Legendariess would always be best-in-slot.
Honestly, they keep buffing axe, but in the wrong skills. The only buff Axe 1 has gotten since launch has been an aftercast reduction. While that’s nice, it still doesn’t help the real problem which is that its damage is so low as to not be worth doing.
Just want to point out that each profession will also be getting a forum specialist, so not many sub-forums won’t have one. I think that limits it to CDI’s, general discussion, bug reports, and Heart of Thorns that don’t have one, but a Specialist really isn’t suitable for any of those areas.
Again, I wouldn’t be opposed to a second WvW specialist, but Galie could only pick people who actually applied. If you’re that concerned, throw your hat in the ring (assuming you’re a US resident). Worst that happens is that the situation remains as it is now. Otherwise, the situation improves.
And ANet never bans people for bringing up issues. They ban people for being toxic and unconstructive.