What seems real unfair is terms of WvWvW and PvP, is the Thiefs ability to stealth while doing a finisher.
That pretty much sucks, because they 100% kill you if you’re not a guardian with the big blue shield thing while downed..
Make it so thiefs cant use finishers in stealth. That’s really annoying.
Seen this discussion, and here’s the thing. Everyone else can finish everyone too including the guardian. Stealth is the weakest protected stomp because it’s only one that can be CC’d.
The thing is, once you’re down, it’s basically over. You’re downed, they hit stealth, no way to counter, or even have a chance at getting up. You’re done for
It’s no different if a Warrior, Necro, Ele, Engie, Guardian or Mesmer are stomping you, only you actually have a chance that the Thief will be CC’d, where all the others have stability, or invulnerability. (well I supposed necro’s blind stomp can be CC’d by a teammate but they can avoid their victim’s CC’s with blind.
Um the damage buff was to direct damage Pistol and stolen weapons. Two traits and thieves don’t use.
Thief
Whirling Axe: This skill can now be cancelled by other skills.
Fear (Stolen item— Skull): This skill now works like the warrior skill “Fear Me.” It will now actually hit its range, but also have a falloff on fear duration based on distance.
Ink Shot: This skill is now a projectile combo finisher.
Tow Line: This skill is now a projectile finisher.
Escape (Harpoon Gun): This skill now creates a poison field with art changes to reflect this.
Ink Shot: Projectile speed for this skill has been increased by 22%
Instinctual Response: Now triggers at 10% damage instead of 20%.
Ricochet: Increased bounce chance from 5% to 20%.
Fleet Shadow: Increased move speed from 33% to 50%.
Slowed Pulse: This can now trigger every 20 seconds instead of every 30. Pistol Mastery: Increased damage from 5% to 10%. Improvisation: Now also increased damage with environment weapons by 10%. Piercing Shot: This skill is no longer able to fire at enemies behind the player.
Here are the notes, please point out any damage buff I missed. Preferably relating to a spec that thieves actually use.
I was actually just kidding (I haven’t read the thief changes in detail) but the fact that a damage buff can get lost in all the other buffs thieves received just supports my point. Let’s just change the description of the thief so it says: “Thief is the best class. All other classes are obsolete. Kitten you all!!!”
Oh my bad. I didn’t bold the damage buffs properly. If you actually read the changes in the patch notes you’ll notice, there’s a mix of buffs, fixes and nerfs. Harpoon actually got the heaviest focus, followed by changes to stolen weapons then pistol’s traits, then some miscellaneous traits that most don’t care about. It was pretty much a nothing patch, or aquatic patch if you look at all the aquatic changes to other classes.
So yes, not many people care about a buff to pistols, but that’s largely due to them having a relatively slow attack rate, low damage, and generally expensive defenses which can also only defend them from single targets.
As for environmental weapons, they’re too unreliable to base a build or strategy around them.
What seems real unfair is terms of WvWvW and PvP, is the Thiefs ability to stealth while doing a finisher.
That pretty much sucks, because they 100% kill you if you’re not a guardian with the big blue shield thing while downed..
Make it so thiefs cant use finishers in stealth. That’s really annoying.
Seen this discussion, and here’s the thing. Everyone else can finish everyone too including the guardian. Stealth is the weakest protected stomp because it’s only one that can be CC’d.
Having to retake the tower maybe tedious, but it’s better then the boredom of being in a completely conquered map. Seriously, once you’re server takes over a whole map, do you find it fun sitting there waiting for battles that probably won’t come?
You change map to another bl or Eternal.
Standard WvW procedure when your enemy is defeated.
I’m talking late in the week. It doesn’t happen as often as it used to with most worlds having drifted to their respective tiers, but it still is entirely possible for at least one of the worlds to lose all of their encampments on all maps and be unable to regain any form or solid footing. At times like those, most worlds pack it in because any move they make will usually be quickly stopped by the dominant server.
Having to retake the tower maybe tedious, but it’s better then the boredom of being in a completely conquered map. Seriously, once you’re server takes over a whole map, do you find it fun sitting there waiting for battles that probably won’t come?
I’d argue that downed state benefits not the larger team, but the team that better works with it. I also argue that without downed state, battles would be way less forgiving for smaller groups. In the end it’s normally team coordination that wins battles.
Apparently the new plan is to keep buffing thieves every patch. I mean they obviously don’t listen to the community and just do their own thing anyways.
Lol, I have been wondering this myself. Someone at Anet plays a thief, probably the boss. Development meeting goes like this:
Dev: “Lots of people have been saying that the supposed weaknesses of thieves are only the illusion of weakness, since most of these can be laughably countered by stealth. Maybe we should consider a rejig?”
Boss: “Hmmm, I take what your saying and your input is valuable, however I have to ask you, the community loves Guild Wars right?”
Dev: “Uh… yeah, I guess.”
Boss: “Exactly. So what we have to do is give thieves some sorely needed buffs. I fought a toughness ele last night that was REALLY hard to kill, so I thought, and this is just an idea… what if… we buffed thieves damage?”
Dev: “That would be pretty much against what everyone who plays the game is saying.”
Boss: “Uh huh. Yeah. Mmm. OK. I hear what you’re saying.”
Dev: “So we’re going to buff thieves damage no matter what I say?”
Boss: “Yeah. Make it so. Ha, thats a little Star Trek joke I make! I know what the kids like.”
Um the damage buff was to direct damage Pistol and stolen weapons. Two traits and thieves don’t use.
Thief
Whirling Axe: This skill can now be cancelled by other skills.
Fear (Stolen item— Skull): This skill now works like the warrior skill “Fear Me.” It will now actually hit its range, but also have a falloff on fear duration based on distance.
Ink Shot: This skill is now a projectile combo finisher.
Tow Line: This skill is now a projectile finisher.
Escape (Harpoon Gun): This skill now creates a poison field with art changes to reflect this.
Ink Shot: Projectile speed for this skill has been increased by 22%
Instinctual Response: Now triggers at 10% damage instead of 20%.
Ricochet: Increased bounce chance from 5% to 20%.
Fleet Shadow: Increased move speed from 33% to 50%.
Slowed Pulse: This can now trigger every 20 seconds instead of every 30. Pistol Mastery: Increased damage from 5% to 10%. Improvisation: Now also increased damage with environment weapons by 10%.
Piercing Shot: This skill is no longer able to fire at enemies behind the player.
Here are the notes, please point out any damage buff I missed. Preferably relating to a spec that thieves actually use.
Dred, nice work-around but the problem remains, why gift an overpowered ability to just one class?
Well, Mesmers can also stealth. But: with long cooldowns inbetween. The stealth is fine. The permastealthing of a thief is just annoying.
A few days ago it took us 12 people to kill 1 thief in the jumping puzzle. He backstabbed one person, stealthed, got out of battle without problems and attacked again. We never caught him. With longer cooldowns inbetween it would’ve been possible.
If 12 people can’t kill 1 guy… then all 12 are either total noobs or the class is just overpowered regarding this mechanic.
Longer cooldown, could make thieves absolutely worthless at everything but quick kills to single targets. Any hits to stealth does hurt a bit to burst builds, but it hurts non-burst builds 10 times worse.
Well, if you go glass canon, you need to consider being fragile. Stealthing all the time and escaping way too easily just isn’t being fragile. Consider a glass canon shatter mesmer. If things don’t work out….well…kitten.
But if the fight goes on way too long, the stealths definitely need a longer cooldown. Maybe +5 secs on the utility skills or +1-2 secs on the revealed. That’s not that bad. But it gives other classes a chance to actually catch the thief.
Question is how does it effect the non-bursts, they may have more vitality and armour but they go down almost a quickly. Nerfs to glass cannon’s need to be more localized, like maybe make BS itself have some negative side effects. Stealth effects all pretty much all thieves, so any changes to it effects pretty much all thieves. And as stated before, stealth effects bursty thieves the least.
Dred, nice work-around but the problem remains, why gift an overpowered ability to just one class?
Well, Mesmers can also stealth. But: with long cooldowns inbetween. The stealth is fine. The permastealthing of a thief is just annoying.
A few days ago it took us 12 people to kill 1 thief in the jumping puzzle. He backstabbed one person, stealthed, got out of battle without problems and attacked again. We never caught him. With longer cooldowns inbetween it would’ve been possible.
If 12 people can’t kill 1 guy… then all 12 are either total noobs or the class is just overpowered regarding this mechanic.
Longer cooldown, could make thieves absolutely worthless at everything but quick kills to single targets. Any hits to stealth does hurt a bit to burst builds, but it hurts non-burst builds 10 times worse.
Anyone who’s using the initiative system as a way to justify and explain away skill spam needs to really think about some things. First of all, just because you have so many points of initative (like an energy resource vs a mana, typically the energy has a much more limited resource pool, albeit a faster replenishing one.). That doesn’t mean your logic is still exclusive to just initiative, if you where ‘forced’ to spam something just because it’s resource effective, then by that logic anyone who uses a resource system (mana, rage, etc…) should be doing the exact same thing, but most of the time they aren’t. This is because effective class and skill design should discourage this by making certain skill much more situationally effective than others but also, making more of your own skills work in synergy in order to get the most out of your class/dps/what ever. Getting the most out of something in a game should never come down to simply spamming one thing. Using a resource system as a scape goat is also stupid, you’re not the only one with a resource system and the resource system is not new to the thief.
I feel you don’t have a good idea what most Thief skill set have to offer. Most CD builds can have situational skills but they generally also lend themselves well to Rotations to sustain DPS. Thief skills on the other had are usually highly specialized to their function. Like on D/D, you generally won’t go HS to DB to CnD or DD to DB, because it isn’t an efficient use of Initiative. To put things in perspective, Thieves have 12 initiative as a base, and 15 if they take 15 point in Trickery. HS costs 3 points, DD costs 4, DB cost 5 and CnD costs 6. DB generally only shines for condition damage on condition builds, DD is an aoe cripple and it doesn’t really have high damage anymore, same story for CnD so it’s just a tool to stealth. Which leaves HS, the lowest cost damage skill in all of Thief’s arsenal, it’s a gap closer, it’s a leap finisher and is has a mechanic that buffs damage when the target is low on health. It’s amazing for direct damage thieves that want to maximize their burst, and it can be used to gain ground in a pinch.
Now for another less popular set S/D. Sword deals less damage to single targets then daggers, but get an AE sweep as a trade off. None of this set’s skills have particularly high damage. It’s skills are Infiltrator’s Strike, which is essentially a scaled down version of Shadowstep, resulting in an ideal way to step in and out of combat quickly (costs 3 init in and 2 init out). Flanking Strike, which is the closest thing S/D has to a damage role skill, makes the user slide around the target to attack with 2 strikes, the first being unblockable and strips boon, and the second being an average damage strike, however Flanking Strike suffers from very poor tracking. FS costs 4 init. The last skills are DD and CnD again. As a result of S/D’s skills set, S/D user’s generally don’t spam anything except maybe FS to little effect. More commonly they rely on auto attack or the daze on Tactical Strike (their stealth skill). So in contrast to D/D, S/D doesn’t have a good dps skills so they don’t spam much of anything going more for a use skills as needed approach.
I wasn’t saying why thieves spam. I was just replying to many of the posts that claim: “HS gives the most dmg for the least resource, (time and initiative) so we’re ‘forced’ to spam it”. I was saying their justification for spamming skills isn’t a real justification when you really look at. If what they where saying really was the case after all, it still wouldn’t be justification, broken and shoddy class design would be.
If a direct damage D/D thief wants to maximize their dps or burst their only option is heartseeker. None of their other skills come close to it in this situation. So true D/D thieves aren’t forced to use heartseeker, just as Rifle warriors aren’t forced to used Killshot, and D/D eles aren’t forced to use their multitude of combo fields and boons, but if they aren’t, they’re holding back.
The way I see it, it was either release a workable game in september, or make everyone wait till the new year, I also think that the betas would only help so much for testing some of the features in this game. The amount of beta testers is a miniscule fraction of the game’s population.
I’ve never had a problem with downed state since I started PvP so I argue that it’s all relative on that front. I personally think this PvP would be easier to grasp if Anet had some tutorials on things like who to handle thieves and the value of stats.
Is there a possibility of creating a Mystic Fountain outside the ‘darkroom’ or within the arena? I assume everybody feels the same frustration when they’re ganked just as they reach this point.
Would be nice. Or a least another glowing item like the Mad Memoires Complete Edition that isn’t tied to a seasonal even.
I think the reason thieves are allowed to get away with what they do because they’re the absolute worst class at sieging. Sure they can score some quick kills in the open world if they build into it, but they are less effective then other classes at defending and attacking towers. And any kills in the open world that don’t score their server any points are pretty worthless in the broad scheme of things.
Anyone who’s using the initiative system as a way to justify and explain away skill spam needs to really think about some things. First of all, just because you have so many points of initative (like an energy resource vs a mana, typically the energy has a much more limited resource pool, albeit a faster replenishing one.). That doesn’t mean your logic is still exclusive to just initiative, if you where ‘forced’ to spam something just because it’s resource effective, then by that logic anyone who uses a resource system (mana, rage, etc…) should be doing the exact same thing, but most of the time they aren’t. This is because effective class and skill design should discourage this by making certain skill much more situationally effective than others but also, making more of your own skills work in synergy in order to get the most out of your class/dps/what ever. Getting the most out of something in a game should never come down to simply spamming one thing. Using a resource system as a scape goat is also stupid, you’re not the only one with a resource system and the resource system is not new to the thief.
I feel you don’t have a good idea what most Thief skill set have to offer. Most CD builds can have situational skills but they generally also lend themselves well to Rotations to sustain DPS. Thief skills on the other had are usually highly specialized to their function. Like on D/D, you generally won’t go HS to DB to CnD or DD to DB, because it isn’t an efficient use of Initiative. To put things in perspective, Thieves have 12 initiative as a base, and 15 if they take 15 point in Trickery. HS costs 3 points, DD costs 4, DB cost 5 and CnD costs 6. DB generally only shines for condition damage on condition builds, DD is an aoe cripple and it doesn’t really have high damage anymore, same story for CnD so it’s just a tool to stealth. Which leaves HS, the lowest cost damage skill in all of Thief’s arsenal, it’s a gap closer, it’s a leap finisher and is has a mechanic that buffs damage when the target is low on health. It’s amazing for direct damage thieves that want to maximize their burst, and it can be used to gain ground in a pinch.
Now for another less popular set S/D. Sword deals less damage to single targets then daggers, but get an AE sweep as a trade off. None of this set’s skills have particularly high damage. It’s skills are Infiltrator’s Strike, which is essentially a scaled down version of Shadowstep, resulting in an ideal way to step in and out of combat quickly (costs 3 init in and 2 init out). Flanking Strike, which is the closest thing S/D has to a damage role skill, makes the user slide around the target to attack with 2 strikes, the first being unblockable and strips boon, and the second being an average damage strike, however Flanking Strike suffers from very poor tracking. FS costs 4 init. The last skills are DD and CnD again. As a result of S/D’s skills set, S/D user’s generally don’t spam anything except maybe FS to little effect. More commonly they rely on auto attack or the daze on Tactical Strike (their stealth skill). So in contrast to D/D, S/D doesn’t have a good dps skills so they don’t spam much of anything going more for a use skills as needed approach.
Everyone suggesting that AOE’ing “the house” is the solution is wrong, btw.
You don’t AOE; you push or pull the thief out of “the house” before the stealth boon can stack any higher than 3 seconds.
That said, they can still immediately restealth and run away. I always try to cripple or immobilize them when they’re visible, but as a mesmer I have a very limited number of ways to do this. I have to rely on one or two other people to assist, otherwise the thief is long gone before I can deal any more than 2k on average to 6k at best.
“Oh well,” for now. Maybe in the next patch, Thief will be “looked at.”
Actually, leaving Shadow Refuge early incurs “Revealed” Status.
Mmos always come with bugs, exploits, imbalances, etc. Just because good games release, doesn’t mean you can’t have patience for a particular one if you like it. You don’t have to bandwagon hop from one game to another. 3 months is infancy for an mmo.
You sound like a Anet rep brah, you either have the patience of a saint or just love this game so much your blinded or anet is paying ya.
Your a consumer, if you think this game’s pvp is healthy and thriving, good ferrr youuu. The rest of us level headed people will be going to a new game, just don’t be surprised when your alone, and don’t start complaining to anet when you are, because that just makes you a hypocrite.
P.S Where u on the swtor forums, because your argument is like every one of those fanbois who defended in spite of all the epic failures. Anyways enjoy your new patch !
I’m just a patient person, who understands the troubles of game develop as a whole. I also understand that Anet is doing their best to address issues, and is obviously having some problems. Supporting your dev rather than constantly calling them inept and whining, is more helpful in the long run. This isn’t a bad game by any stretch, and if you believe it is I can’t understand why you sit on the forums. Bugs are tough things sometimes in such a massive game.
I’m not a fan boy, I know this game has issues, but I understand the issues that come with fixing them.
I understand that they are trying, but it seems to me they are truly inept. Every single patch they “fix” fix things yet break 8 more different COMPLETELY unrelated issues. Unheard of for a multi-million $ selling game let alone a mmo w/ millions playing. [i should say for the hundreds playing for the spvp].
And your second statement about supporting devs, this is supporting devs because we are telling them we are upset and things need to change, if all the consumers were like you the dev’s would think the games fine or they don’t care and NOTHING would change. So no i don’t agree with you and we should all be mad and complaining.
The issues aren’t related on the surface, but they are underneath. If they were completely unrelated they wouldn’t break each other. I acknowledge the fact that it is obvious that they are having issues with their engine. But saying they are completely inept is pretty short sighted. They are very capable devs.
No, they wouldn’t think the game is fine. Because I agree that issues need to be pointed out when they arise, but saying that we should be throwing tantrums is pretty ignorant. Point out the issue, let them know it’s there, then let them fix it. Nothing is improved by calling them inept, nothing is fixed by throwing fits. If you truly think this, then play another game and check back later. I believe that they can get more stablility down the road, and I am willing to wait for that. I am also willing to support them, and see both the positive and negatives of the game as a whole. In my opinion, the former outweighs the latter.
I’d like to add, debugging is friggan hard, In the past I’ve learned many browser based codes and now I’m learning C. In my experience, bugs are hard enough to find in small programs, especially considering it’s not always missing a comma or semi-colon. Those are actually the easier ones. Bugs can also emerge from completely normal looking logic statements. It can take a many hours of probing and trial and error to isolate a bug.
1) History lesson, in medival times knights would carry small knives to slip between the plates of thier opponent’s armour.
2) Actually if you build with enough survivability Thieves will generally leave soldiers alobe because they’re too much trouble to fight.
GJ arenanet u are ruining the game , thief are OP now so just buff them more gj!
This is the perfect example of a whiner.
They buff a class that isn’t the class you play, you come on the official forum and start whining saying “X is OP gjgjgjgj nerf plz”.
Not really. Perfect example of a whiner is someone who complains without a valid reason :P
There isn’t a valid reason. The thieves that use the bemoaned builds don’t take those traits.
Increased damage, reduced recast times and stronger underwater. Huzzah, this thread is meaningless… and someone, if not everyone, at ArenaNet play a thief as their main character… and so does everyone in World vs World. I WILL NOT SUCCUMB TO THE DARK SIDE. >:\
Thief
-Whirling Axe: This skill can now be cancelled by other skills.
-Fear (Stolen item— Skull): This skill now works like the warrior skill “Fear Me.” It will now actually hit its range, but also have a falloff on fear duration based on distance.
-Ink Shot: This skill is now a projectile combo finisher.
-Tow Line: This skill is now a projectile finisher.
-Escape (Harpoon Gun): This skill now creates a poison field with art changes to reflect this.
-Ink Shot: Projectile speed for this skill has been increased by 22%
-Instinctual Response: Now triggers at 10% damage instead of 20%.
-Ricochet: Increased bounce chance from 5% to 20%.
-Fleet Shadow: Increased move speed from 33% to 50%.
-Slowed Pulse: This can now trigger every 20 seconds instead of every 30.
-Pistol Mastery: Increased damage from 5% to 10%.
-Improvisation: Now also increased damage with environment weapons by 10%.
-Piercing Shot: This skill is no longer able to fire at enemies behind the player.
The fact you’re annoyed by these shows how little you know about thieves.
Of all those changes, aside from the water skills you probably only see the stolen skills in use. And the skull fear is now weaker at max range.
So far from what I can tell the biggest change this makes is it makes Dreadfall Bay extremely hard to defend from Blue. Blue get their keep handed to them, then they take the nearby supply and Treb Dreadfall relentlessly from it. I think they need to do something like raise the mountains between them.
You know this is and has always been the case right? The bays have always been kitten for defense on the outer perimeter because they are low ground to EVERYTHING on the map. This isn’t going to change anything and all teams have the same advantage coffered by the foothold provided by breakouts because everyone has the same borderlands.
What this does change is the fact that heavily contested or lopsided maps now offer a way for teams, guilds, and servers to break out of either the citadel or their invader’s spawn point.
Yeah, I wasn’t really saying it was a bad thing. Just a bit different. I wish the commander’s on my server would have focused more on taking Shadaran instead of letting Red at it. Blue’s being relentless and I’d like if we’d have another strong fallback if we lose Garrison. Ah well, the week’s still young, we’ll probably dig in our heels soon enough.
i agree with the decision. it brings in the unpredictability factor, something that tpvp has not had. once you commit to a build, you have to make it work, period. constant switching was just silly. so if one team decides to do something out of the ordinary, and they pull it off well, why should the other team have the capability to directly counter that almost instantly? this change will encourage planning and organizing before a match. and as poster above me said, it encourages balanced builds that can adapt to different situations.
if this change kills tpvp as we know it (it wont), then all the better.
So you are saying that one team managed to do a good cheese start and therefore should automatically win because of that? You are saying that the other team should just lose (even tho they might be even better) just because they got cheesed? No comeback scenarios? No evolving gameplay?
God.. posts like these make me so damn sad..
If they’re a cheese team, then someone can counter them. You didn’t choose a team that can manage to cut it and didn’t come up with some creative strategy to overcome your teams weaknesses. So tell me, why do you deserve the win?
You can say you’re more “skilled”, but the truth of the matter is, what counts as “skill” has been redefined, so if you want to stay Pro, you’ll have to adapt to the new form of"skill".
The pros I see from this change is:
-Balance becomes easier to discern, the devs are now seeing what builds pop up, rather then seeing entire class skill sets fighting each other.
-Players having to put more thought into their builds and team comps, to the degree that some players who originally had the same playstyle may have different builds now due to personal preference,
-Roles becoming more defined. Players now have to either build a jack-of-all-trades build or something more specialized to a specific job, but they can’t have both, and face the consequences for their choices.
I personally think Underwater maps could be cool. The combat style is largely unexplored by players, and underwater play has an almost completely different dynamic for some classes. For instance, Thieves trade their stealths for evades while underwater.
I’d say give it a test run.
To the “Pro” Players opposed to this change. Please explain how being forced to overcome the weaknesses of your build rather then merely retooling yourself on the fly to the optimal build for any situation requires less skill? If you’re able to make yourself optimal for anything, then at least the way I see it, you’re playing easy mode. So now you’re going to have to reassess the way you play if you want to keep your loafty standing.
The game has changed and now you have to pay more critical attention to your builds.
So far from what I can tell the biggest change this makes is it makes Dreadfall Bay extremely hard to defend from Blue. Blue get their keep handed to them, then they take the nearby supply and Treb Dreadfall relentlessly from it. I think they need to do something like raise the mountains between them.
Since DT is ground targetable now, could it be theoretically used to divert your target into a trap? Or at least to force your opponent move out of a place you don’t want them?
O_o did I miss some change? I haven’t used scepter since a long time but don’t remeber DT being changed to GT…
just tested it… and it still is not a GT…
Oh my bad. Thought I saw that in a previous patch note.
Since DT is ground targetable now, could it be theoretically used to divert your target into a trap? Or at least to force your opponent move out of a place you don’t want them?
To be abet to stomp with stability the Necromancer needs his elite(plague can be actiuvated during the stomp) as the 3 seconds from the trait(for which no good necromancer build has the points to get it) is in fact not long enough for a stomp
Yeah he should ammended that before hand and included blindness stomps.
I’d like to see more of this stuff. We have a great game, but so many people don’t want to explore it. It’s really sad that I see more posts stating “such and such isn’t viable because…” Instead of people thinking outside the box trying to make such and such work. We really spend more time trying the lower the status quo then trying to push our limits. And if I’m wrong on that account, please share what you’ve been doing. We need more constructive post, this board has been getting quite venomous as of late.
Yet another Q.Q post from those who don’t do their research on thieves… Just learn to AoE, dodge, and done deal. We arn’t invulnerable during stealth… <.<
Because Thiefs automatically places themselves in your AoE circles or close to you when they are stealthed.
The bigger the attack area, the more likely you are to hit something. And if they’re going to attack you, they’re going to get close to you.
Not all attacks land when your opponent is visible, so of course you may miss when the target is in visible. If you want save your skills for more sure shots, then at least have the common sense to react when you lose track of a thief. Drop your guard and it’s your fault the thief got the jump on you.
Lol, try fighting thieves from a ranger’s POV. for the second or two you can actually target the thief, 50% of your arrows miss. Don’t even get the luxury to auto attack the air as the arrows go straight down while nothings targeted.
have you heard of weapon switch? try it one day, it will improve your skills
I’m a ranger, I like to use SB and LB. should I change my weaponset of choice because 1 class has cheap mechanics? lol
If you took SB and LB that’s your own fault. You also put yourself at the mercy of reflects with that setup. Does that make those cheap too?
remind me of a class that can have relfects up every 5 or so seconds?
Mesmers can get pretty close to that. And they don’t need to breath down your neck to do it.
You pulled that one out of thin air, why? because its not true.
Lol, try fighting thieves from a ranger’s POV. for the second or two you can actually target the thief, 50% of your arrows miss. Don’t even get the luxury to auto attack the air as the arrows go straight down while nothings targeted.
have you heard of weapon switch? try it one day, it will improve your skills
I’m a ranger, I like to use SB and LB. should I change my weaponset of choice because 1 class has cheap mechanics? lol
If you took SB and LB that’s your own fault. You also put yourself at the mercy of reflects with that setup. Does that make those cheap too?
remind me of a class that can have relfects up every 5 or so seconds?
Mesmers can get pretty close to that. And they don’t need to breath down your neck to do it.
Lol, try fighting thieves from a ranger’s POV. for the second or two you can actually target the thief, 50% of your arrows miss. Don’t even get the luxury to auto attack the air as the arrows go straight down while nothings targeted.
have you heard of weapon switch? try it one day, it will improve your skills
I’m a ranger, I like to use SB and LB. should I change my weaponset of choice because 1 class has cheap mechanics? lol
If you took SB and LB that’s your own fault. You also put yourself at the mercy of reflects with that setup. Does that make those cheap too?
I just have to point this out. To all you who say stealth should end on damage.
If you did that to stealth, Thieves would be unable to survive in dungeons or high level areas like Orre or Champion battles. They’d be unable to participate in sieges or Zerg v Zergs and thier only viable spec would be the Backstab combo.
Yes, this fix would completely break the class.
HS spam only seems bad because its spam-able due to initiative.
For example, i’m a warrior and i use sword/shield so my sword 2 skill is fundamentally the same as hs (gap closer to target + damage). It has more gap range and way less damage, but its functionally the same. The difference? i can’t cast it 3-4 times in a row.
The initiative resource system, while unique and interesting for the thief class, just dumbs down the class really, since you are always gonna choose to use all your initiative on the most cost effective skill (for bs theives, this ends up being hs, for a d/d condition thief, this will be death blossum) and only use that skill to the exclusion of every other skill. So lets say for example, they nerfed HS into the ground. Something else (maybe CnD) would just end up replacing it, and thieves would spam that instead. This is the downside to the initiative system; theres no real cost-benefit – just choose whatever the best skill is, and spam it.
I doubt they’d spam CnD. Skill costs half thier base initiative pool, it’s damage was nerfed significantly, it has melee range and they can only use it every 3-5 seconds depending it they attack. HS, is pretty much the only skill like HS. Probably see more condition Thieves with DB if HS was ubernerfed.
I’d also like to call foul on the point about init making thieves only use one skill. I play S/D and none of my skills particularly stand above the rest in damage, so I mainly auto attack and use the other skills as needed.
JP has an interesting dynamic. The whole area’s one big mexican standoff. I generally run off the premise avoid combat as much as possible, which isn’t that hard to do as a thief. But I can understand the frustration of other classes, especially once you get to the beast pit after the dark room. I wish Anet would add a non-event back gear that passively lights the area. Then we could use the wells to greater effect.
Yeah that can happen in WvW. Can this thief wipe out a group with that trick? Can they make a noticable contribution to a siege with that trick?
Thieves are great at small objectives, but their trade off is they don’t bring much to the table in large scale fights. Least effective at attacking keeps, even worse at defending keeps.
Imo this sounds more like a minor annoyance then an actual problem. PvP is a mode where players try to inconvience each other, so PvP in all forms has potential for annoyance.
I’m sorry but this is garbage every class has access to stealth, stability, or invulnerability.
I’m guessing by the tone of your post, your incapable of mature discussion. I’d just like to ask you to explain your arguement in terms of Necromancers.
They have access to 3s of Stability through a Grand Master Trait, in a trait line which is very rarely used. The vast, vast majority of necromancer specs are unable to gain this ability without making them remove 30traits from a benficial line. Then spending them in a line with little to no synergy in their build.
Compare what i just mentioned to Thieves who can all stealth stomp with ease and no penalty.
You’d consider this perfectly balanced?
If not then this thread and discussion has validity, reguardless of if you agree with the posts made in it.
Put a stealthed Thief, a stability Warrior and a mist form Ele around a downed Guardian. Who gets the finish?
