Could a quickplay option be added to LFG as a quality of life thing for people who don’t care what their party is?
It’d be similar to ones in other games like Overwatch and follow similar rules, like no being able to kick players, but being able to report them if they’re blatantly trolling or engaging in toxic behavior.
To be clear, it’d be an additional option to the current lfg as a quality of life for those that just want a casual run.
Imo, Pugging should be the party experience with the lowest standards, I view it much like Quickplay in OW; a space where you trade the quality of your teammates for party building expedience, which is why I’m against things like DPS meters that can be used by everyone.
I see people who use DPS meters in the same way I see scummy players who throw matches when they see a hero they don’t like.
To those who say “why should I carry someone?” I say, “Because you chose to pug” You wanted speed over quality, if you aren’t willing to put in the effort, why should you get a high quality run?
For those who are truly interested in self improvement, I’d say join a guild and form a team dedicated to that exploit. I’d even support Anet making a DPSmeter as a Guild feature, but as it is now, it makes the lives of toxic players easier, and fosters a negative atmosphere in the PUG environment which I don’t care for. Wasn’t there that test golem too?
I find the very notion that you should have to form a guild or network of friends dedicated to doing Casual party play ridiculous.
If your going to go on the pro-meter side you’re going to have to answer for yourself, why you wouldn’t mind a setting where you yourself wouldn’t be allowed to party with others because you’re seen as lesser.
I’ve played MMOs for over a decade and never been in this position.
I said this isn’t a logical position but it carries more weight because it takes place in a social setting.
I shall peer into my looking glass and predict the steps of what will happen, upon the inclusion of a dps meter:
1) builds get tested
2) HIGHEST damage build(s) identified (with actual 100% reliable data)
3) Discrimination
4) worse off than we are now
I’m curious why you think 4 will happen? Also 3 is not a bad thing, do you discriminate over which exit to your house is best, door or window? If you’re using the door because its quicker, more secure and safer then you’re discriminating over a logical reason.
Experience.
Experience from other MMOs is what most people usually fall back on when comparing changes made.
Also your anoalogy does not even fit the current situation.
No one is discriminating (at least I’m not) against damage meters due to logic or it being useful reasons. People are against it (again, at least I am) due to illogical, discriminatory and unreasonable human character flaws which are found every time people who do not know each other interact.
The game is far from needing this amount of optimization. If you want to felx your kitten, do that in some other game, there are enough MMOs on the market which will allow you to do just that.
xD I was meaning discrimination is not a bad thing.. I then gave an example of why it isn’t a bad thing and how YOU discriminate daily (as does EVERYONE else). I was not sayng “you are discriminating against DPS meters.” Sorry for confusion.
Saying “DPS meters will lead to discrimination!” is like saying “Letting people see will lead to discrimination!” both are true and both situations reveal more about the world than just sorting people into piles (which is what you are focused on not letting happen – even though it has already happened but with guessing instead of data).
[just to spell it out : people who can see can now discriminate based on looks but can also see lots of other things, people with dps meters can discriminate on who is pulling their weight but also develop their own and others’ gameplay]
[just to spell out before : YOU discriminate on the exit to your house, deciding the door is better than window]
Maybe you should look up what discriminate means, it is not a synonym of prejudice. On a related topic I highly recommend looking up Tim Minchin – Prejudice, much funnies.
Good idea, best you start with reading up on conotations and where discriminate stands:
Your example did not make sense because doors and windows have different uses. A more fitting example would be as follows:
You have a front and rear door to your house. Some people enjoy going out the rear door and walking through their garden to get to their car, others take the front door. The dps meter would now give an exact difference in time spent between using both exits.
Using the front door is slightly (or more) faster, which we can now quatify.
Your neightbor with whom you carpool now starts demanding you always use the front door even though you both always got to work on time.
You are the potential neighbor making life miserable.
Try mine, silly Americans always adding bias to things. Notice for the negative effect that you are using (definition 2) the words “unjust” and prejudiced" are added to the sentence.
The analogy was just a one person analogy to show YOU discriminate and point out ‘discrminate’ is a neutral term. If you’re not getting it by now I cannot help you.
Try another one, do you treat your boss same as your sexual partners, obviously not thats you discriminating and acting accordingly.
Good point, on:
- a public forum
- of a game by an american company
- with a multitude of players of different countries whos native language is not english (matter of fact, I’m no american or british english – not even an english native speaker)
- with a term that gets used vividly by the media in a negative conotation way
- on a topic where the term as such was clearly used with a negativ conotation
you getting what I’m trying to point at brah?
Also your analogy is not making sense because it does not fit logically the situtation. You could have just as easily said: person chooses to use the front door instead of the window and 90% of the readers would have had a better understanding of what you ment.
ps.
Make an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, sex, or age: existing employment policies discriminate against women – http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/discriminate
So your link proves my point as well, thank you.
Aha but discriminating by DPS is NOT the same as discriminating by a born trait (like sex or race), its discriminating by output (as in discriminating by usefulness – which is just like door vs window).
People can improve their output (even with help from the DPS meter) and so can earn greater favour by DPS meter discrimination.
Discrimination is logical and completely fair when applied to output – exam results for example discriminate based on how well you did (I hope you can see that this kind of discrimination is fair and just). The term is not negative just you keep wanting to act like we’re comparing women to men when actually we’re actually comparing straight As to fails.
Output discrimination does not lead to bad things (its the reason you’re using a computer right now and not excrement to make pretty shapes on a cave wall).
Correct, and this has done abosultely diddly squat in disproving that discriminate has a negative conotation and was used (and mostly gets used) in this negative way, see this entire thread.
You see now we’ve established people are using it in a biased and stupid way we can start eliminating the worthiness of their posts.
When the dust settles all we’ll have is “DPS meters give you information on which to make decisions” and I shall think it good.
Except that correcting people’s grammer, spelling and/or vacabulary and use theirof does not change their irrational behavior nor does it solve human nature.
It also does not counter past experiences which might or might not repeat themselves.
Ultimately it solves none of the dilema at hand except maybe creating more clarity in expression (which I find doubtful non-native speakers would even care about).
So I’m not sure what you believe to have proven or solved besides sidetracking this entire discussion with semantics.
Oh all the good points for DPS meters have been made many times (help builds, give accurate output which could feed into class balance, know where things go wrong personally and as a group, improve your personal play through understanding your skill usage and output) and the antiDPS meter crowd just worry about ‘discrimination’ and haven’t budged from that position.
I thought teaching them the actual definition of discrimination would at least accomplish something, you can learn something new every day. You just can’t seem to argue with these people past a certain point (see big list of pros).
[btw its ‘grammar’ (this could have been a trap but it was irresistable so nice bait if it was, if it wasn’t the delicious irony will keep me happy)]
The only way you’re gonna make them budge is convince them otherwise on their absolute rule: They don’t like being snubbed and don’t like others being snubbed.
They don’t want anyone, who’s not intentionally trying to sabotage the party, to be kicked, especially not for gear, build, class or play style.
This entire thing is boiling do to, cold logic vs subjective feelings, only this time it’s about individual people’s subjective enjoyment of the game.
If your going to go on the pro-meter side you’re going to have to answer for yourself, why you wouldn’t mind a setting where you yourself wouldn’t be allowed to party with others because you’re seen as lesser. (and for argument’s sake, conforming to the other players wouldn’t be an option, we’re going most stubborn of the stubborn)
Well, there did add the Pre-cursor crafting which is a significant change. As I recall they also removed the WvW requirement for the Gift of Exploration before the xpac.
Locking HP’s (and POI’s) behind mega events so that you cannot reach them at any time that you are on doesn’t sound like sensible long term game design.
Nothing new, several have been in the game forever, Harathi’s zone event for one gates one Hero Challenge (and maybe a POI, can’t be sure about that).
I’d actually argue gating certain group HPs behind meta events is a non-issue. It means once the meta is done you’re almost always going to have people to help with the HP.
It’s why I’m so repulsed by PvP. You can read the other team’s messages and sometimes there are people that will just get aggressive and rude with you for no reasons.
I don’t ever want to play PvP because it makes me hate the game, and it’s annoying that the new legendaries require the tokens from PvP.
^ best described it.
What I often feel just when I think of launching the game lately is disgust. Disgust, that I would have to be in an arena with people with the tendency to condescend to a level below that of a rat, honestly. It’s repulsive to even think of doing PVP.
I celebrated the first time someone sent me vitriol on PvP by posting it on my tumblr (I censored their name of course). It’s amazing what you can take when you laugh it off. I also like submitting to kittengw2playerssay.
By the reaction on this thread you can probably see how popular this change would be. No one likes to be silenced and I don’t think Anet could even manage to enforce stricter speech codes. They’ve already provided tools to deal with things like this, and there’s nothing in this world that is objectively offensive (anything can be offensive) so if that isn’t enough for you I’m not sure what they can do.
If they cater to you specifically then they’ll be expected to cater to everyone and we’ll quickly find our chat very controlled.
At one point one has to take responisibility for one’s own self, and say I won’t let those words bother me or I will take measures to avoid those word, because at the end of the day, you aren’t any more important than anyone else.
Am I the only one who kill them first because they’re easy to put down and a threat you should not underestimate in long term fight?
Do people just kill the nearest tanky threatless foe without looking for the worst threat first?
Nah. I think anyone who know’s what they’re doing makes the snipers their first target. The other Mordrem are honestly trivial aside from maybe the mounted ones and a few special ones in Dragon’s Stand.
Personally the only thing I find overwhelming is those suicide mushrooms when in tight quarters.
Honestly, the community is going to be responsible for the life or death of this game. for an MMO, community is everything. Ever been to a Video Game news site lately? See the comments on GW2-related posts? Disgraceful.
What’s most puzzling to me is the posters on those comments and especially here on this forum seem to reflect the scum of the GW2 community. Bottom-feeders with no self-esteem picking fights for no reason and acting like children… All while making these hilarious claims like, “I’ve been gaming since before you were born!”
Yet every instance in every map I’ve ever played on GW2 has been the polar opposite. People seem eager to help each other. Almost no name-calling or holier-than-thou B.S.
I don’t think this game will die, per se. I think the 11-year-old keyboard warriors posing as 30-year-old sex gods will be just annoying enough to make the adults leave. The demographic will quickly shift and from there it only goes downhill.
Perhaps you mean people like me, though I am 37 but I have never claimed to be a sex god. I have been very very critical on Massively OP, and MMORPG because of my frustration over HoT Open World difficulty, the hostility I received when I dared to make a forum post venting my frustration regarding said difficulty, followed by jeering Trolls sprinkled with legitimate comments, followed by a deluge of abuse after I had the audacity to give it right back, followed by an enforced leave of absence.
So yeah, I took it upon my self to spread my message out to the gaming websites where I’m untouchable.
I’ve been keeping tabs on the forum posts though and I found it very satisfying when people started complaining about empty maps, I assumed folks like me started doing Champ Trains, or The World Boss circuit, or SW; the path of least resistance. Or left to try other games as my fiercest critics have suggested I should do.
If the White Knights turn nasty don’t be surprised if we take it out side the forums, especially if we lose our voice.
You get blowback because difficulty in the open world is a rarity in GW2, and traditionally complaining about difficulty has worked in the open world, see Orr for example, the map has seem plenty of nerfs to it’s mobs to the point that anything below a Champ is a joke. For example, Risen Putrifiers used to have a pull instead of an immobilize.
When the HoT betas hit the beta players largely loved the difficulty of VB, to the degree that there was an uproar when one of the betas nerfed the mobs.
The threat of mob nerfs is at least largely seen as credible to the blowback is to be expected, they aren’t defending Anet because they think Anet is perfect, but rather they’re defending what they find fun.
Also your Empty Server point us flawed, because GW2’s open world runs on a Mega Server system. New map instances are opened as the currently open instances reach capacity; meaning 1,000,000 players in a specific zone looks the same as 300 players on that zone, from a player’s perspective. Anet has stated that the HoT zones are currently bugged with respect to the Mega Server system causing lower than normal populations in HoT map instances.
Can the Bandit Keys, Crowbars ect be moved to the wallet? I mean we’ve now got like 6 or more of these kinds of items, with likely more o the way, and they’re becoming clutter and annoying to swap around when you switch between Alts.
Frankly I think that anyone who thinks the zone is too difficult, should avoid it and go play in the old zones, which are very very easy.
This is such a lazy man’s argument and gets trotted out blithely any time a discussion of balancing the HoT content comes up.
Many people bought this game based on the content available – core Tyria maps were a huge part of this – so it set the tone for the game, and people based their decisions to buy largely on it. This is simply logical sense.
Then the content and the maps change significantly and people express their concerns about it. And they’re told not to expect to be able to play any of it or even bothering to buy new content or expansions. They’re told to just keep playing content they’ve done over and over without expecting anything new. This is ridiculous.
When you spend your money using the evidence available and see a game and say, “Hey, this game is fun and terrific for my playstyle,” it isn’t exactly surprising if they would like to have some new content in line with what they based their buying decision on in the first place. This doesn’t make them bad people or stupid people.
They certainly deserve some respect and not the cesspool ideology of “go find a real game to play” and “stop being a stupid, worthless noob,” “L2P,” etc. ad nauseum the kind of stupid, pointless things people say because they need to feel superior to anyone disagreeing with them.
And what of those of us who like the difficulty? Are you suggesting we should stand idly by and let those with grievances suck the fun out of the new zones, reducing them to a bland husk, of more enemies who are trivially easy to ignore?
This is a problem where either one group needs to up their game, or the other will find the content dull.
Players can improve their skills, lowering one’s skills is significantly harder.
You’re going to have raids. That was the promised challenging content. The base maps in the expansion shouldn’t be that challenging for the average player. If you re-read my post you’ll see that I said exactly this.
So you want to take away what we have now and lock us up in some dungeon that may or may not be accessible at all times, just so the bar can be lowered to include those that don’t know they can dodge roll? Or if not that point where is the lowest common denominator? How low shall they go?
(On that note, what is the average player even? I mean I consider myself pretty average. I have friends who hardly understand traits and I haven’t seen them complain about difficulty.)
Frankly I think that anyone who thinks the zone is too difficult, should avoid it and go play in the old zones, which are very very easy.
This is such a lazy man’s argument and gets trotted out blithely any time a discussion of balancing the HoT content comes up.
Many people bought this game based on the content available – core Tyria maps were a huge part of this – so it set the tone for the game, and people based their decisions to buy largely on it. This is simply logical sense.
Then the content and the maps change significantly and people express their concerns about it. And they’re told not to expect to be able to play any of it or even bothering to buy new content or expansions. They’re told to just keep playing content they’ve done over and over without expecting anything new. This is ridiculous.
When you spend your money using the evidence available and see a game and say, “Hey, this game is fun and terrific for my playstyle,” it isn’t exactly surprising if they would like to have some new content in line with what they based their buying decision on in the first place. This doesn’t make them bad people or stupid people.
They certainly deserve some respect and not the cesspool ideology of “go find a real game to play” and “stop being a stupid, worthless noob,” “L2P,” etc. ad nauseum the kind of stupid, pointless things people say because they need to feel superior to anyone disagreeing with them.
And what of those of us who like the difficulty? Are you suggesting we should stand idly by and let those with grievances suck the fun out of the new zones, reducing them to a bland husk, of more enemies who are trivially easy to ignore?
This is a problem where either one group needs to up their game, or the other will find the content dull.
Players can improve their skills, lowering one’s skills is significantly harder.
The battle with Z was far worse than this. You could spam 1 and never move.
The battle with Mordy is everything leading up to it in Hearts and Minds, not just the dragon itself.
This. Aside from Mordy looking like a frumpy treant, you got the feeling that you were dealing with a much more intelligent villain than Zhaitan. The battle was much more engaging and had much less sitting around waiting for something to happen.
I’ve been hearing about the bugs a lot. I’m guessing I was lucky on that front.
Overall my biggest complaint is the emding after the fight felt too abrupt, though I guess the LS will give more closure when it starts again.
People that find the open world hard needs to stop the berserker gear mentality. Try soldier and such and you will have loads more fun. I can autoattack things to death in soldier gear without problems.
If youve tried the more defensive stuff and still struggle then im not sure what the issue is. I just think a lot of people cant be bothered to explore different builds.
This is a rather ignorant statement. Perhaps you’re the one who needs to change. Try Berserker so that you can wear everyone elses shoes, then you can see where they are coming from. It has really nothing to do with the difficulty of the content, and more to do with the content just one shotting people with zero telegraphs. Berserker gear is fine. What isn’t fine is people not having the chance to react.
So youre confirming that because arenanet has finally made other builds wanted they have ruined the 1 build game they had for 3 years.
Such a sad and backwards outlook you have. I don’t think I’m going to waste my time trying to explain this to you. I understand you find yourself unable to perform with a certain type of gear set, but is just down right ignorant and selfish to try and impose your own limitations on everyone else.
y0. Glass staff Ele here. Like full Sin’s and Scholar rune.
Personally I’ve found the difficulty in this state fine. I say this knowing I could be insta defeated by an Champ Arrowhead or Snipers trace shot, or ganked by a pack or Pocket Raptors.
I’m fine with all this and find the high risk a very engrossing experience. Needing to know where to stand when engaging enemies, to know if any roving enemies may join in, and to know who the major threats are in an encounter are feels great. Any time I down is on me. I don’t consider myself a pro player.
All that out of the way, it seems to me, if you’re finding mobs too strong, you’ve reached your limitation too. My suggestion is either up your game or adapt your build. Glass is meant to be high risk, and it is no longer the golden key to GW2.
If you want to stay glass, my advice is develop your situational awareness and learn which enemies do what, I’ve yet to see anything that a little on the fly pre-planning won’t handle.
I haven’t noticed this problem. Even in HoTs. The only place where I’ve seen rezzing happen less is in difficult bosses in easily accessible locations.
Those people saying that they are finding it difficult. They are not making it up. Telling them that it’s easy, or that they need to get better, or that they don’t belong in the game, or even just being rude to them; none of these things are ever going to help. /shrug
So being overtly rude and telling them to gtfo aside, are we supposed to just roll over, not voice our objections and possibly let Anet dumb down the game for them, at the expense of making the game completely boring to ourselves?
GW2’s core experience is so easy that we got players in endgame who don’t know basic mechanics like dodging. Why should Anet alienate those that care about the game just to cater to those who can’t even be bothered learn the basics?
I recall them saying Distracting Daggers would only count for a single proc for the whole skill, I forget if it was the setup or the last dagger. If it’s not procing in any of that then yes it’s bugged.
I’d imagine dodge caltrops don’t count as a trick because they’re a different skill than the utility, being smaller, shorter and weaker.
Solo players cannot advance in the new content, and any decent publisher would disclose such a fundamental change prior to taking your money.
Er… Why do people keep having issues with the solo run? I didn’t have problems at all, and think I can even manage to clear the personal story without dying on my 2nd run if I do so. o_O
Ditto
I’ve been soloing on a Zerk Staff Ele and been getting around just fine, despite the fact that many Champions can one shot me and I’d say I’m pretty average, skillwise. If you can’t manage on your current build, change it up and build more for survival.
I’d die inside of they rebalanced the PvE for the lowest common denominator.
My GF is self admittedly as casual as they come and she’s been a very hard sell on the expansion. Enemy difficulty is one of the few things she hasn’t complained about.
I’d say 7 or 8 so far. I love all the little deviations like Adventures, Helping the Pale Reavers, using unlocked masteries, the new collection achievements and the new style of story. I just did the one where you get the egg. I never imagined I’d play a mission like that in GW2.
I absolutely hate the Snipers, and that’s exactly why I love that they exist. They’re a major threat if you aren’t paying attention and that makes combat fun.
I doubt most people will show the mentor tag after the first shiny has worn off. Not unless they actually want to act as a mentor. Since its level one there is no rarity, no prestige attached to it. Wearing it to show off would be like walking around with the Jenna or dragon minipet and expecting anyone to be impressed. In fact, that’s probably why it’s level one. So easy to get that trying to show off with it will be laughed at.
I’m thinking this too. I mean the tag won’t mean anything beyond having reached level 80, and you’ll ideally be getting newbies whispering you for help. The only place where I can see people trying to flaunt them is in cities.
Sad that Anet already had a template for an effective Non stealth “thief” class in the GW Assassin. They tossed that, pandering to the wow rogues. “Innovation” rofl.
I’d actually argue that WoW Rogues have more in common with Sins than Theives, mainly because WoW’s engine is more similar to GW1’s as far as combat goes. The reason Rogues and Assassins worked in their games is because they had passive evasion, and skills that would lower their probability of being hit even further.
In GW2, contact equals at hit unless there’s a secondary effect in play.
Though alright, let’s trade stealth for the ability to stand still and have an 70-95% chance that your attack will do nothing.
Hear me out.. Although Scarlet wasn’t exactly the best villain, she definitely put a sense of excitement in the game. Whether it was the Aetherblades, or the Twisted Marionette, Scarlet constantly kept the game interesting. It was so much fun logging on and seeing Scarlet’s new plan and overall insanity. It was kind of like seeing Harley Quinn take control for once. I also think she is the example of a good final boss fight. The Prime Hologram wasn’t incredibly difficult but it did require team coordination and was a overall good way to end Scarlet’s story. I miss the updates and all the exciting stuff she brought to the game. I’m hoping HoT brings the same taste with Mordremoth.
Oh wow, thought I was the only one who felt this way. Scarlet was the BEST villain in GW2! Hope they bring her back in the future. I also miss her aetherblades.
Anet should design more bosses like the molten duo who can be holy hell if your DPS is too low if it intends to enforce DPS checks.
Because it requires little skill.
Not necessarily. If the enemy can apply mounting pressure too it becomes an endurance game which could require just as much skill, just in different areas.
I remember that solo Spider Queen kill using Cleric gear and only auto attacks (kinda fixed now, but the principle still apply), or that Solo Lupicus kill without dodging, or or or, the examples of defensive and healing gear making this game an actual afk faceroll are numerous. The only reason those builds aren’t the meta is because it takes a billion years to finish the content, so you either faceroll, don’t even have to dodge and kill very slowly, or you need to dodge and use active defenses to survive but the runs are much faster.
I guess for “challenging” content they had to remove the slow but facerolling option and the best way to do that are enrage timers.
I’ve done some thinking and I see your point. Any challenge directed at a Nomads player will affect a Zerker 10x worse.
That said, adding stat types to GW2 was probably one of the biggest mistakes Anet made. At least to PvE.
Still I’m morbidly curious what would happen if Anet added grueling endurance encounters (stuff like survive for x amount of time) to Raids and high level fractals. I’ve a salt addiction.
Anet should design more bosses like the molten duo who can be holy hell if your DPS is too low if it intends to enforce DPS checks.
Because it requires little skill.
Not necessarily. If the enemy can apply mounting pressure too it becomes an endurance game which could require just as much skill, just in different areas.
Could a Thief with Venomous Aura be all the CC a group would need to take down the Breakbar on bosses?
I mean Ice Skale Venom would be an instant 20 hits of Chill, and Devourer would be 15 hits of Immobilize.
If the Thief blew all their cooldowns it’d be party-wide 10 stacks of Might, and 45 CC attacks in a matter of seconds. Sounds like a great setup for a Burn phase to me.
I’ll throw in my two bits:
Staff 2: I feel this could use a lockon. Not a huge problem.
Staff 4: The Dust Strike feels a bit slow. Maybe a 1/2 cast?
Dodges: All the dodges feel really chuggy at the start.
Aside from feeling like I’m running slower, my min height male norn feels about the same as my female human. Though my Norn Thief was my first character, so since I’ve played this body type since beta’s it makes sense for it to feel normal to me. (Hard mode in SAB helped a lot with that.) (Also, it amuses me when people mistake me for human)
they probably didn’t have anyone lined up,
but decided to give it away in a “Leaked” data mined instead.
they’re like “anyone know how to play thief?”
What if this is their attempt a meta humour? We’re Thieves so it’s on us to sneak in and leak our own specialization?
Long shot I know but I’d laugh if they made that joke.
Personally I’ve found the new system awesome. Unlike the old system where you usually had to go deep into 2 lines to make a certain set of utilities optimal, each specialization track seems to keep its utility traits localized; making it easy to run two different utility types of traited utility and still being able to invest in your weapons or class mechanics.
For condi, are you saying everyone gets their own individual stack of condi, so like if 5 players are applying condi to a target there will be 5 stacks?
