As a person who enjoys running dungeons with new people, I’d have kicked you immidietly. How would you feel if everyone was playing how they like in dungeons? Scepter/torch mesmer, mace/torch guardian, rifle warrior with sigils only, pistol/pistol thief and you.
If you’re not looking to improve or contribute, nobody is obliged to carry your kitten through the dungeon.
Anyone remember when GW2 was supposed to be an escape from the toxic pugging environment WoW fostered. We aren’t forced to bring a Tank or Healer, but seems we are forced to play bring something we may not like, thanks to the community. It’s like some kind of Mexican Standoff. “I don’t like playing this, but I’ll bring it because someone might kick me” seems to be what goes through pug’s minds.
I wouldn’t care what my party brings, even if it was a pack of Nomads wearing staff Necros. I’m there to kill mobs, face challenges and get loot, Not micromanage perfect strangers. I say this packing zerker/scholar gear on most of my 80s.
At this point, it may be better if Anet just made all gear become Celestial in PvE (via global transformative effect). There’s only one way to be good at PvE in this game anyways so it’s not a huge loss. It’d end this whole Zerk = skilled, everything else = unskilled crap, and it’d add some skill back to combat. True running Glasscannon in this game is risky, but there comes a point where damage can become so out of control that even active defense becomes unnecissary. (See that FGS thread)
Combat in this game should be as much about surviving as it is attacking, otherwise they may as well replace all the enemies in the game with Ambient mobs.
I’m sorry. I had to start laughing when you said warrior’s have the best DPS. Do Elementalists, Thieves and Guardians not exist now?
Eles make Warriors look like pillow fighters with their Staff and Conjures.
Their groups have no effect on you so just leave them be. The sad thing is you actually think you have some sort of moral high ground, but you don’t when you’re trolling people who simply want to play with others like themselves. Whether you like their standards or not is irrelevant, I don’t join those groups either, but writing LOL and then leaving the group serves no purpose.
You’re really over thinking this :/
Don’t mind Maha. He’s the ever present PvE meta Whiteknight.
Funny thing is almost every spec is perfectly viable for dungeons including Necro. It’s just the pugs blindly try to copy the meta speed runners, so players who have no interest in figuring out how to properly build their characters themselves see that the speed runners disallow necros due to lack of their precious efficiency, and assume wrongly that Necros can’t dungeon period.
Is the fact that I think compatible people should play with each other and not try to contact incompatible types either through grouping with or trolling actually something bad? If that’s what you’re trying to argue, then mind = blown.
What I’m trying to say is there’s a lot of misinformation that has risen due to the existance of the meta. Even though most people who actually understand the meta know better, the more ignorant pugs have come to think unviable for speed runs means unviable for dungeons in general, which causes a lot of grief players who don’t use classes or specs within the meta. The worst are those that think dungeons are impossible with the meta.
Even though this may have not been the meta player’s intention, it is a negative side effect of thier existance, and they aren’t exactly blameless either having chased off every non-meta build designer on the dungeon board.
Their groups have no effect on you so just leave them be. The sad thing is you actually think you have some sort of moral high ground, but you don’t when you’re trolling people who simply want to play with others like themselves. Whether you like their standards or not is irrelevant, I don’t join those groups either, but writing LOL and then leaving the group serves no purpose.
You’re really over thinking this :/
Don’t mind Maha. He’s the ever present PvE meta Whiteknight.
Funny thing is almost every spec is perfectly viable for dungeons including Necro. It’s just the pugs blindly try to copy the meta speed runners, so players who have no interest in figuring out how to properly build their characters themselves see that the speed runners disallow necros due to lack of their precious efficiency, and assume wrongly that Necros can’t dungeon period.
Do you even WvW? The fall traits can be invaluable in roaming and zerging. When roaming, they’re a great way to escape a gank and in a zerg, they allow for some less predictable manuvers.
Aside from roleplay reasons, why do you want to play with a ranged weapon ?
I’m honestly asking this question. And I don’t want to hear bullkitten like “because it’s what is told in the description” or “well I don’t. But if I did …”
The real reason. It can be anything, but I’m really interested in it.
Personal preference of combat style. Just like in any game players like the freedom to choose what they like and not be considered inferior for it. In fighting games some players like Grapplers, some like Rushdown fighters and some like Zoners, yet all of those playstyles are considered valid. Here we have a single playstyle that’s considered valid and a multitude that work but server no practical purpose in PvE.
This is a game that is supposed to promote creativity and personal preference in it’s combat. Is it right for over half the game’s combat options to be so weak they’re considered by some unviable?
Personal preference falls under role play.
Ah.
Right.
I must have missed the fine print on the game packaging when I purchased this game. This game is only meant for players who enjoy being Meta pawns. Do not purchase if you choose to play how you want in “Open World” content. Again, this game isn’t actually for you – its for meta players only. All others get the kitten out.
’Cause you know some of those fine print lines are just so well hidden.
Is someone actually stopping you from playing the game the way you want?
@Dual – when ranged was the meta for most encounters and melee was frowned upon – were you here to fight discrimination in PVE as well – or are you just doing it now because you feel the game doesn’t favor what you like to play?
I was a Thief player almost exclusively had no other 80s and I was getting shunted by even my own guildies all the time for a Guard or Warrior just because the general thought was Thieves are too squishy for dungeons. So yes, although my scope was limited to Thieves at the time, honestly it kind of sucked to be a thief player at launch. You got all the hate from PvP and were considered useless in PvE.
As for the implication that I do only ranged on my Thief, I have all possible weapon sets on me at all times, and I change my build all the time. I generally favour Sword in most cases, but will rebuild for different scenarios like taking advantage of Dagger’s single targetted nature using them against the ogre boss in the pavillion to safely attack him without hitting the birds so I generally prefer melee and always have. Just don’t like being tied down.
Aside from roleplay reasons, why do you want to play with a ranged weapon ?
I’m honestly asking this question. And I don’t want to hear bullkitten like “because it’s what is told in the description” or “well I don’t. But if I did …”
The real reason. It can be anything, but I’m really interested in it.
Personal preference of combat style. Just like in any game players like the freedom to choose what they like and not be considered inferior for it. In fighting games some players like Grapplers, some like Rushdown fighters and some like Zoners, yet all of those playstyles are considered valid. Here we have a single playstyle that’s considered valid and a multitude that work but server no practical purpose in PvE.
This is a game that is supposed to promote creativity and personal preference in it’s combat. Is it right for over half the game’s combat options to be so weak they’re considered by some unviable?
Personal preference falls under role play.
Not letting you dodge the point that easily. This game’s PvE is sorely lacking in balance at the high end. The proposed change won’t fix the balance but it would make things a tad more level. Ideally PvE should have situations where both long and short range have practical applications at the top level. As it stands currently, the only situation where ranged becomes practical is when you’re class has no other option (I could argue that D/x Ele is still ranged as even Lightning Whip has more that double the range of melee and no combo tree) and a couple bosses that you pretty much can’t stand beside.
This change wouldn’t damage the meta in anyway but it would ideally alleviate some of the elitism among the pugs.
If you feel like replying to this, I ask you, why are you so dead set on keeping PvE as it is currently? Why do you not want more viable choices in the meta?
And why do you want to change it?
If range was equal dps to melee, then everyone would just range because it would be less risk and equal reward. Why would anyone learn how to dodge when they could just camp longbow/rifle/staff/mesmer gs and be equal? How boring would that be?
Boring for you maybe, but for me I love motion in combat, actively changing my position to avoid an onslaught of enemy attacks, especially when the floor lights up like a dance floor with AoEs. Standing in the corner is what I find boring, no matter how much active defense I perform. Some people like playing ranged and they’re frowned upon currently.
To make my stance clear, it’s not to destroy the meta but rather to eliminate discrimination in PvE, having faced discrimination back when thieves were considered unviable in dungeons. I’m well aware it impossible to completely get rid of discrimination in this game, such is the nature of humanity, but I do believe it’s at least possible to decrease the amount we see in game now.
No. People do not need to spend 1000g+ on another full set of ascended weapons/armor (up to 2000g+ if you spend on infusions) to get “optimal” stats.
Create variety through skills/traits, not through stats on gear.
What we need is harder dungeons, not changes that make them 3x easier like what happened with ferocity and low-level dungeons.
Just a note to on gear, passive stats and builds. Why should builds in PvE be locked to one gear set? As passive stats are a large part of what helps your build to perform. This is a problem with build diversity and locks you into designing content only for these gear choices as a large part of your passive stats are locked to gear choice. This aspect doesn’t really come into play for this discussion other then the difficulties it imparts to swapping builds in PvE.
My personal preference is to allow us to unlock all passive stat combinations, sigils, runes & infusions to make it very easy to swap builds in WvW & PvE (Just like in sPvP). But this will have a massive effect on the economy of GW2 as with out these lock passive on gear what other value to they have (Cosmetics have become unlocks). If we go this way like cosmetics what will we have to trade and sell. Now I still want this but what other reason could be created that would still have players trading and sell these items?
PvE builds are not locked to one gear set. You can run any gear stat in your build. Even for optimised builds there isn’t just one gear stat, or one rune, or one infusion type or one sigil, there’s variety even at the highest level.
Care to elaborate on the gear, runes and infusions? All I ever hears is:
For Gear, Assassin’s or Zerk.
for Runes, Scholar or Strength with a couple niche exceptions.
for Infusions, why run anything other that Power+Agony Resist if possible?
(Seriously, I’m curious.)
Aside from roleplay reasons, why do you want to play with a ranged weapon ?
I’m honestly asking this question. And I don’t want to hear bullkitten like “because it’s what is told in the description” or “well I don’t. But if I did …”
The real reason. It can be anything, but I’m really interested in it.
Personal preference of combat style. Just like in any game players like the freedom to choose what they like and not be considered inferior for it. In fighting games some players like Grapplers, some like Rushdown fighters and some like Zoners, yet all of those playstyles are considered valid. Here we have a single playstyle that’s considered valid and a multitude that work but server no practical purpose in PvE.
This is a game that is supposed to promote creativity and personal preference in it’s combat. Is it right for over half the game’s combat options to be so weak they’re considered by some unviable?
Personal preference falls under role play.
Not letting you dodge the point that easily. This game’s PvE is sorely lacking in balance at the high end. The proposed change won’t fix the balance but it would make things a tad more level. Ideally PvE should have situations where both long and short range have practical applications at the top level. As it stands currently, the only situation where ranged becomes practical is when you’re class has no other option (I could argue that D/x Ele is still ranged as even Lightning Whip has more that double the range of melee and no combo tree) and a couple bosses that you pretty much can’t stand beside.
This change wouldn’t damage the meta in anyway but it would ideally alleviate some of the elitism among the pugs.
If you feel like replying to this, I ask you, why are you so dead set on keeping PvE as it is currently? Why do you not want more viable choices in the meta?
I think the counterpoint here is that it really doesn’t matter what you or other games consider “iconic.” Guild Wars 2’s mechanics defines a ranger as an inside/out fighter, melee first with ranged secondary. It’s your choice to ignore that… at the cost of not being as effective as the game allows.
Well this thread is asking to lessen the gap between effecive and ineffective by pulling up the usefulness of the bottom. The gap between ranged and melee doesn’t need to be quite so huge as it is in PvE. I don’t even know why the meta crowd is so against it. Not like it’ll make is so they can’t stack anymore.
I could go onto say, in gaming, when something it overly popular, it can be considered overpowered, and in the same vein, when something in underpicked it can be considered underpowered. I’m betting no one would disagree that Guild Wars 2 is horribly unbalanced in PvE. I mean, to the degree that over half the customization options are considered “for training” or “for funzies”.
It’s almost amusing watching the “best” players blindly defend the balance and demanding that nothing new or interesting be added to the game.
Aside from roleplay reasons, why do you want to play with a ranged weapon ?
I’m honestly asking this question. And I don’t want to hear bullkitten like “because it’s what is told in the description” or “well I don’t. But if I did …”
The real reason. It can be anything, but I’m really interested in it.
Personal preference of combat style. Just like in any game players like the freedom to choose what they like and not be considered inferior for it. In fighting games some players like Grapplers, some like Rushdown fighters and some like Zoners, yet all of those playstyles are considered valid. Here we have a single playstyle that’s considered valid and a multitude that work but server no practical purpose in PvE.
This is a game that is supposed to promote creativity and personal preference in it’s combat. Is it right for over half the game’s combat options to be so weak they’re considered by some unviable?
I hope the account bound on the foods will be made tradeable. My GF will be able to play again soon and she loves cooking and sharing with friends. She’ll find the account bind lame.
Maybe you somehow destroyed a Chaos Shard? I think that was one of the effects. It makes sense in the way that, the reactor is overflowing with chaotic energy. Lorewise almost anything can happen there.
Here’s one idea, what if they changed it so rather than defiant, bosses get a kind of interrupt armour. If you interrupt the boss the interrupt goes through, but if you miss an interrupt, the boss becomes immune to CC for 10 seconds? This would reward skillful CC and punish sloppy CC.
Dazes and stuns should reset the return of Infiltrator’s Strike so that the strike needs to be made again before escaping.
Sorry but no… As someone that has 6/8 champ titles (almost 7/8). From a PvP perspective making it so that a theif eats a hammer stun immediately resets the infiltrators strike 15s CD is a bad idea. This is likely one of the most smartly or dumbly used skills in the game. ANd using it smartly should be rewarded.
Also I propose a buff to s/p!
Why can’t you use the return before the stun lands? As it is the thief is in the position to couterplay pre hammer stun hit, AND post hammer stun hit. With the change the thief maintains his escape pre hammer stun hit, and the warrior gets access to counterplay against infiltrators strike/return by landing a stun.
Thief. Wants to steal his cake and eat it too.
Anet so gracefully stuck a rather lengthy delay before the actual teleport happens. Somewhere between .5 and .25 seconds. Most of hammer’s skills are .5 second casts, so yeah if it’s a half second delay, IF is absolutely worthless against Hammer unless the thief has precognition.
You guys know, the fact you can interrupt Infiltrator’s Return and stun the thief is the counterplay right? Infiltrator’s Return used to be Shadow Return. In that state it was originally a stunbreak, then it was nerfed to be only an instant cast. Now’s it’s been nerfed into Infiltrator’s Return which has an interruptable cast time.
How much more do you intend to drag this skill through the mud?
I think it’s just Thieves are still angry about the 2 Infiltrator’s Return nerfs. It used to be an instant cast stunbreak similar to Swap. Now Swap is the only weaponbound stunbreak and as it’s functionally similar to how Infiltrator’s Return was, it just salts the old wound seeing Mesmers complain about a skill getting nerfed that’s so similar to Infiltrator’s Strike and still has its stunbreak.
awesome thank you so much just what I was after. odd the gendarr one showed up once I went to the map but the Brisbane is kinda screwed only found it cause the new story. is there a jumping puzzle at the gendarr with the steam vent and sawblade thing going on?
As a Ranger who largely plays in PvP WvW I have to say I have enjoyed reading this. I have a very control focused play/build style that revolves around setting up and maneuvering an enemy. This is what I enjoy and largely why I play classes like the ranger in many games.
One of the biggest issues with PvE I have is how not only is control as a whole completely worthless. But due to that fact im actually told NOT TO EVEN PLAY THE GAME THAT WAY. Im sure those gathered here know but there is pretty much ONE ranger build and ONE play style thats…even TOLERATED in the vast majority of the groups in the game.
At first I thought this was just for rangers. So I made three other characters and lvld then to 80 in the hopes that maybe my play style would…atleast not be seen with absolute disgust in the PvE environment. Only to find that control builds on EVERY class are considered an actual detriment to a team. As in many groups would prefer to be running with four people than even have you inside it….Thats….disgusting.
And the worst part is I cant even blame the players themselves. Its not there fault. The PvE Group content of this game simply doesn’t need two aspects of its new “trinity” (Damage/Control/support) for the DAMAGE builds provide all three with such ease that anyone that doesn’t run them are in the eyes of the ones that do HARMFUL to the grp.
Thats just my 2 cents though. If the encounters and content of the game could be changed to actually make running a control or a support build desirable or even remotely worthwhile Id be all over the dungeons/events. But as it is know I only leave the mists for the sake of the living story.
Dude, You feel how I do. Thieves at least get some control from S/P, but we generally get our hands slapped if we aren’t using signet passives in combat.
We can’t even look at our SA traitline without being sneered at.
I savaged my Traveller’s set for a set of knight’s. Shortly there after they got rid of Traveller’s I could have had a free other set.
Bought an exotic shield on my Thief for my Engie to put the Super Skin on it. The shield became soulbound to my Thief.
Deleted my first mesmer but kept her Super Staff thinking I could transmogrify it. You can guess how that went.
Technically it’s just standing on top of each other. It’s used to share buffs and support party members, working most effectively with tactics that boost group dps or provide groupwide defense. It’s used in concert with the LoS or Line of Sight tactic which takes advantage of the stupidity of mobs and lures them into tight spaces to be bursted down, sometimes within seconds if you have the gear, comp and coordination.
All that said, you can assume that 90% of tha pugs don’t know why you stack either. They’re just stacking because pros stack, but they don’t take advantage of tactics stacking allows so they’re essentially just standing in a corner, thinking that they’re pro.
I wonder how much more the meta can alienate players before something drastic happens?
Also who’s next on the chopping block?
Could always make friends, get a guild, and run whatever the hell you want crazy I know.
Heh. You see a Ranger on my sig? I’m just wondering if this Meta vs Phiw controversy will come to a head. The more exclusive things become the more hated the meta will become. As tensions rise, the likelyhood of something snapping rises as well.
Just need a decent sized community of players to decide to lash out, and a kittenstorm shall erupt.
Of course that could be my taste for drama talking. But I have noticed that there is a growing desire for something to change. On and off the forums, even major community figures like WoodenPotatoes have expressed discontent, so I imagine things will only escalate till something happens.
I’ve played both GW1 and GW2. I don’t see it getting a resurgence of players, it’d need a huge influx of players all at once. Don’t know if it’ll be shutdown or not.
The main things I miss a few classes such as Dervish and Ritualist, the Signet of Capture, and the build template system. Of all those I think templates is the most likely to be added.
As for the discussion about if GW1 is dead. Well it has a few diehard players but most have moved on. I could argue that any MMO is dead because the public thinks it’s dead. Games that are perceived as dead have a hard time getting new players, and an even harder time retaining them if there’s no community to greet the new player. It might keep a few anti-social players but it’s hard to have faith that a game that’s way underpopulated will even stay online much longer.
It’s like going to an understocked store, you start to wonder if they’re going out of business.
As for what Magic Find does. It’s supposed to help you get more and better loot in-game. But since the loot system is controlled but RNG, it can be hard to notice the difference it makes.
Don’t mind it myself. I imagine it’s to make the story more of the focus than the achievements.
This chapter was loaded to the brim with lore, answering many unanswered questions. I honestly like this model. Keeps things more emmersive than following a checklist guide ever would.
I just want to point this out. You can get Zephyrite Skills in the storymode JP. What you’ve gotta do is go back to the Wind Crystal Kasmeer dropped, if you touch it multiple times you can stack up to 1:30 of the Aspect buff. I find simply jumping up and down on the crystal is the fastest way to do this. After you cap out the buff, make your way to the JP, it should only take 3 jumps. When you get there you’ll have 7 available jumps and just over a minute to do them all. (Not as tight of a time crunch as it sounds)
This is an interesting point. Why is it only 1 of the 4 finisher types wants players to stay close together?
I think it all boils down to, this game’s combat is designed for PvP and PvP alone, which is the vast majority of balance decisions are made with PvP in mind. They just shoehorned PvP combat into PvE and called it good, thus we are left in a situation were over half the elements of the combat system are woefully underutilized.
Things like Active flanking and movement, simply aren’t needed, and most enemies are about as easy to read as goombas and more that willing to charge blindly to thier deaths.
My advice if you want depth in combat, go into PvP. You won’t find anything here that won’t eventually become mindnumbingly dull.
I read like one paragraph and decided it wasn’t worth reading the rest. Something about hambow veterans and learning from them or something.
My exact sentiments.
@OP: This game could use some actual challenging content, I agree, but the reality is the majority of the player base doesn’t want that. Most of the people want to log in, spam 1, collect their reward and log off. It’s a sad reality.
If you read it through, the OP wrote this well aware of that. He means for content for the players who find the reward in the challenge rather than the reward.
Dungeons are no doubt better for gold, unless you’re crazy luck with the keys. People just do them for low cost low effort ways to get items exclusive to the BLCs.
I had to reply to this and say that; in almost any case, if you’re getting kicked as a guardian, its one of four things:
2- You’re not being a guardian, which means supplying boons, offering protection, and healing.
supplying boons, offering protection, and healing.
offering protection, and healing.
healing
healing
why
do people
think guardians are meant to heal
Don’t forget protection. Protection is OP.
Can Anet just rename Gaurdians “Monks” now? They already do practically the same job as a Protection Monk and they have practically the same party presence across all modes in the game.
It they do anything with Zinn, they have to work in an achievement or dungeon called, Operation Imminent Doom II. (Assuming Impending it not subtle enough or copywrited or something )
Silly Waffle. Everyone knows it’s never the loser’s fault they lost on the internet. They were always cheated, because they’re far to uber pro to ever lose a fair fight.
Jokes aside, welcome to the intermet, where everyone must make an excuse when they lose. Losing hurts their delicate egos so they feel the need to lash out to protect their reputation of having mad skills.
I’d add that Scholar is a safer investment than Strength. Strength has become what many consider overpowered in SPvP as it’s letting players build tanky and makeup for the lost damage with Might. So it could be due for a nerf.
crazy I know.
