I don’t get the argument that if something is properly balanced, anet must compensate. If its properly balanced, then by definition nothing is needed to compensate. It means that the prior 6 months of being imbalanced is the compensation.
The argument is that nerfing stealth will make thieves underpowered because they have the least ways to deal with taking damage in the game.
Get rid of initiative. I don’t see how it adds any value to the thief class.
Most of thief weapon skills are akin to utility skills, and they’re the worst class at face tanking, so initiative allows them to react to rapidly changing situations in short spurts.
…The suggestion is that when a invisible thief comes too close of the enemy he turns visible …
Thief is primarily melee and you want stealth to break when they come into melee range?
You talk like you stay in stealth while in melee combat and it is not true. While playing D/D, for example, you will enter stealth to land a backstab and not much else. After that you will have your debuff.
And I don’t think stealth should break. You would stay in stealth all the time, semi-appearing just when you get that close to the opponent. Dodge back and you are invisible again. Also, the enemy would only partially see you, like your allies can do (https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/27729/gw635.jpg).
I don’t think it would break any build a thief can use.
Why is it every upstart thinks they’ll become kind of kitten killing machine if downed state is removed? Removing downed will make it easier for you to kill, but it’ll also make it 10 times easier for larger zergs to steamroll everything.
The only tactic I can see removing downed state would make more effective is kamikaze attacks.
In anycase it’s not the size of a group that determines the victor in WvW, it’s who’s more organized. At least for the most part.
Considering Ele’s have the same health pool as Guardians, and both classes are considered the best Bunkers in the game, I don’t think this can be justified.
Thief’s weapon skills are designed with specific purposes and most of them don’t combo well. A D/D won’t go 2345 because Heart Seeker is a direct damage skill, death bloosom is a condition damage skill, dancing dagger is a low damage AoE cripple and CnD is a moderate damage on hit stealth. They also barely have enough iniative to do that combo once. If you look at some other thief sets, such as Sword/Dagger, users actually use thier auto attack as thier sole source of dps.
Other classes can find rotations with their weapon sets because the cooldown system lends itself well to rotation and their weapon sets are designed with rotations in mind.
Thieves on the other hand are on a resource system and have to choose what will give them the most value for the least cost. So railroading them into forced rotation won’t work at all. Especially considering some skills costing a 3rd to a half of their resources
Other games seem to do just fine with stealth breaking on damage or on them doing damage. I don’t understand why Anet feels the need to make stealth far more powerful in this game vs other games who have years of pvp experience, particularly since this game already gives extra stealth from culling. It just isn’t logical. Since this is a thread about thieves and their game play, I hope this isn’t deleted too.
Other games aren’t choke full of PBAoE, ground targeted AoE and basic autoattacks that can be used without target and hits anything in a huge cone in front of the player.
It would also make the Dagger 5 skill C&D practically non functional as it is since it’d be impossible to get a hit without getting booted out of stealth 0.2s latter by some random mashed attack button.
sure they are. dark age of camelot, aion and warhammer all had massive aoe. somehow thieves/sins did well.
Those games had different combat mechanics and different skill sets on thier Sins. They were built to survive off statistical evasion, which doesn’t exist in GW2.
IMHO one change will balance thieves and reduce all the hate on them. Just make so that when a stealthed thief takes damage its puts them out of stealth, either by direct damage or aoe. They can keep all the damage and burst they have. WoW rogues have permanent stealth by default but are revealed when they are hit and WAR had the same mechanic. What were Anet devs thinking?
This has been suggested far too often. It essentially gimp pretty much every thief build that isn’t BS glass cannon. And effectively banish them from high level pve zones with lots of aoe, large scale fights in wvw and dungeons.
Thieves don’t survive off of armour, or protective boons, the survive by not getting hit, and they have to do it actively. No throwing up aegis or defensive stances, it’s either they use an evade skill, dodge roll or throw up a blind if they have one, otherwise even tanky thieves are taking the full hit.
Other games seem to do just fine with stealth breaking on damage or on them doing damage. I don’t understand why Anet feels the need to make stealth far more powerful in this game vs other games who have years of pvp experience, particularly since this game already gives extra stealth from culling. It just isn’t logical. Since this is a thread about thieves and their game play, I hope this isn’t deleted too.
In other games evasion is a statistic, thieves usually have a high evasion statistic and skills that make them more likely to passively evade. A good example of one of these skills in GW1 would be the skill Shroud of Distress, for 54 seconds if your health is below 50%, you have 7 regeneration and a 75% chance to block.
In guild wars 2, if the sword or aoe hits you, you’re hit, unless you have something like block, aegis, distortion up, or the attacker is blinded or are evading. Few attack in the game require a target as well, making crossfire a common occurance.
So enter thief, only has evades and blinds to avoid damage, evades are only good for dodging and can’t be used passively, and blinds are only effective for one enemy attack and since it’s very hard to inflict everyone in the area with blind at once, it’s basically a weak version of aegis that’s no good against groups.
The reason thieves can survive with such weak defenses is stealth. Stealth has no statistical way to mitigate damage, it just makes is harder for thieves to be targetted precisely, they still have to dodge attacks in steath, they just aren’t the focus of the attack.
thieves have good dodge and evasion in this game too. and you aren’t supposed to survive against whole groups
They have above average dodge, by GW2 standards, but it has its limits, because it’s all active evasion, and all subject to the limits of energy, initiative and cooldowns. They don’t have a stat that says 50% of all attacks miss for no explicable reason in GW2, so getting surviving attacks it all on the thief and his/her resources.
And sure making stealth drop on hit will make 1vXing as a thief impossible. The problem is it’ll make ZvZing, Dungeoning and high level PvE impossible too.
IMHO one change will balance thieves and reduce all the hate on them. Just make so that when a stealthed thief takes damage its puts them out of stealth, either by direct damage or aoe. They can keep all the damage and burst they have. WoW rogues have permanent stealth by default but are revealed when they are hit and WAR had the same mechanic. What were Anet devs thinking?
This has been suggested far too often. It essentially gimp pretty much every thief build that isn’t BS glass cannon. And effectively banish them from high level pve zones with lots of aoe, large scale fights in wvw and dungeons.
Thieves don’t survive off of armour, or protective boons, the survive by not getting hit, and they have to do it actively. No throwing up aegis or defensive stances, it’s either they use an evade skill, dodge roll or throw up a blind if they have one, otherwise even tanky thieves are taking the full hit.
Other games seem to do just fine with stealth breaking on damage or on them doing damage. I don’t understand why Anet feels the need to make stealth far more powerful in this game vs other games who have years of pvp experience, particularly since this game already gives extra stealth from culling. It just isn’t logical. Since this is a thread about thieves and their game play, I hope this isn’t deleted too.
In other games evasion is a statistic, thieves usually have a high evasion statistic and skills that make them more likely to passively evade. A good example of one of these skills in GW1 would be the skill Shroud of Distress, for 54 seconds if your health is below 50%, you have 7 regeneration and a 75% chance to block.
In guild wars 2, if the sword or aoe hits you, you’re hit, unless you have something like block, aegis, distortion up, or the attacker is blinded or are evading. Few attack in the game require a target as well, making crossfire a common occurance.
So enter thief, only has evades and blinds to avoid damage, evades are only good for dodging and can’t be used passively, and blinds are only effective for one enemy attack and since it’s very hard to inflict everyone in the area with blind at once, it’s basically a weak version of aegis that’s no good against groups.
The reason thieves can survive with such weak defenses is stealth. Stealth has no statistical way to mitigate damage, it just makes is harder for thieves to be targetted precisely, they still have to dodge attacks in steath, they just aren’t the focus of the attack.
IMHO one change will balance thieves and reduce all the hate on them. Just make so that when a stealthed thief takes damage its puts them out of stealth, either by direct damage or aoe. They can keep all the damage and burst they have. WoW rogues have permanent stealth by default but are revealed when they are hit and WAR had the same mechanic. What were Anet devs thinking?
This has been suggested far too often. It essentially gimp pretty much every thief build that isn’t BS glass cannon. And effectively banish them from high level pve zones with lots of aoe, large scale fights in wvw and dungeons.
Thieves don’t survive off of armour, or protective boons, the survive by not getting hit, and they have to do it actively. No throwing up aegis or defensive stances, it’s either they use an evade skill, dodge roll or throw up a blind if they have one, otherwise even tanky thieves are taking the full hit.
Never fought a theif that used shortbow againt me… Only Dd or pd.. I have no idea what needs to be fixed since I have 8 character slots…. But I know I would rather have more thieves in the guild than any other profession … May be guardian.. good dd ele are hard to find and thieves in wvw aren’t really there to help fellow guildies… Since anet wants every type of build for every profession work on the culling … And tweek some support skills…. I want to see a support thief … Come to think of it people role thieves cause they want to kill other players not cause they want a good experience with other players .. ..should be renamed assasin … Aaaa do that since the f1 steals so are thieves supposed to be using stealth mechanic or the steal mechanic ?
Actually that’s not always the case. I roled thief more for utility and style then for stats. And I can and do lend a hand in the field, just many other thieves don’t use those abilities.
Columba, get a new arguement, your arguement has already been proven false on multiple occasions. Ele has the best Mobility hands down, and Dps refers to sustained damage. Thieves have a good burst, but thier sustained damage isn’t the best. Also ranger short bow’s firing is roughly twice that off thief’s. Trick shot hits a little harder, but Crossfire hits way more.
So 6k attacks and perma stealth are possible. So if an enemy has 18k health, they can die without ever seeing their enemy? Weren’t we told that this was impossible?
6k every 3 seconds bare minimum. Also maintaining the stealth by that combo isn’t exactly cheap on resources, if they want the high damage they won’t have any points in trickery so they’ll only have the base 12 initiative pool. And Black Powder + Heartseeker is 9 initiative right there. Also because Black Powder is a field, the enemy does have a general idea of where the thief is. All in all it’s not the most efficient combat style.
Lol.,. I dont care if thief have the highest damage! I dont care if thief have faster mobility! What is wrong here is over using of stealth source by C&D., anything over is Bad! Since there is no such thing here that you can use to see the hiding things why dont put a limit for stealth? And the thief just say hey L2P! You can kill me by your AOE, lol how many AOE you can use in your both hand? And some of the AOE have sign on the ground, is that thing is useless? Just throw your skill and w8 if you are lucky or not? Nice the best yow! And dodge all you can,. But even you dodge you gonna see the thief is like 1 centemetre far from you because of fast movement? Nice very nice., but i dont care if there fighting ability is like this., but the over using of stealth that the thing that make this game not balance.,
The thing of it is, telling a thief to play without stealth is like telling a guardian or elementallist to play without boons. And eliminating some key skills in their bar for that matter.
Did i say to remove the stealth? What i say here is limit the stealth over using of stealth is not good., and they can limit the stealth if they make the C&D effective only if that skill stab on the back., not on the side or front it should be in the back., and besides thief is the famaous backstaber right., in that case they can limit the stealth.,
Sounds like another kind of change that’ll hit the balanced builds worse then the glass cannons.
Lol.,. I dont care if thief have the highest damage! I dont care if thief have faster mobility! What is wrong here is over using of stealth source by C&D., anything over is Bad! Since there is no such thing here that you can use to see the hiding things why dont put a limit for stealth? And the thief just say hey L2P! You can kill me by your AOE, lol how many AOE you can use in your both hand? And some of the AOE have sign on the ground, is that thing is useless? Just throw your skill and w8 if you are lucky or not? Nice the best yow! And dodge all you can,. But even you dodge you gonna see the thief is like 1 centemetre far from you because of fast movement? Nice very nice., but i dont care if there fighting ability is like this., but the over using of stealth that the thing that make this game not balance.,
The thing of it is, telling a thief to play without stealth is like telling a guardian or elementallist to play without boons. And eliminating some key skills in their bar for that matter.
I’d take the drastic step of reducing every stealth skills duration by half, see where the class lands at that point. That’s still enough stealth for thieves to utilize their utilities and abilities in but should help to reduce the " I’m never going to die because you can’t see me" that good thieves have turned into.
About the only things that can kill a decent thief in WvW :
1. He makes a mistake
2. Massive amounts of CC abilities ( Ring of Warding, Roots, Dazes )
3. Another thief in a burst spec
I’m all for letting them do their thing in PvE and Spvp, but in WvW they need to be slapped down a peg.
So 1.5 to 2.5 seconds of stealth and 5 seconds off SR. That’d nullify a few of our traits, not even the ones WvW GC thieves take. You should consider that culling doesn’t give thieves their stealth perks, and effects everyone differently. Also that extra invis it gives is additive, not a multiplication. Personally when I face thieves they cull pretty quickly. Like .5 seconds tops.
Why do people come to WvW looking for a fair fight? I find things like this item interesting, gives you a reason to experiment with these odd karma rewards. (I wish the taser glove actually did something)
Hello! this will answer your question. Also to all thieves who say “its cause thieves destroy noobs” i gotta tip for you, if you cant 2 shot people with heart seeker, remember you press 5 so you can flee for combo points.
You realize this was before the nerf right ? And its hard to press 5 when fighting player that is aware of what is 5 and what does it do. And how does this video shows thiefs OPness ? finishing outmaned ppl with <50 % hp while runing with a zerg? yea zergs OP, nurf zergs!
To add. This video was when most Ele’s thought they were the most UP class in the game.
@Bast Bow: You realize you’re saying the game should be dumbed down at the expense of players who enjoy thief, in the interest of players can’t recognize a mind game when they see it (stealth is a mind game tactic) and probably don’t have a solid grasp of the mechnics of the game beyond thinking they have to rely on thier slot skills to solve all obstacles the game presents.
Oh and to add to the elementalist arguement, I wouldn’t care if they were perceived by the masses as OP’d. I’d be analysing them looking for for ways to deal with them. The same goes for every class.
The fact that I can be hit with abilities that “REQUIRE” a target while I’m stealthed… is disheartening.
This is not true, target-required attacks will not hit without a target selected, so they can never hit a stealthed target.
The problem you’re having is getting used to the fact that most GW2 attacks are not target required. That is just how the combat system works. Being able to hit stealth with free aimed attacks is exactly how it should work given GW2’s combat system and implementation of stealth.
I think he’s refering to things like Leap channels not losing thier target when the target stealths mid-channel.
Using directly offensive moves in stealth or leaving the Shadow Refuge early inflicts you with the Revealed debuff. A 3 second debuff that disables your ability to stealth.
so i have to be part psychic to guess where they gonna hit? ps. not all thieves use backstab.
No, use common sense. If they’re melee they’re going to go for your back no matter the weapon (Dagger’s backstab is double damage in the back, Sword’s Tactical Strike Dazes from behind), if not their either direct damage ranged which is rather lackluster and you can dodge out of their channels, or their condition ranged and you can dodge and use condition removal. A tip on that last one, don’t blow your CDs too early.
It’s nothing supernatural, its just understanding your opponents abilities and motivations.
thief weakness = mass aoe as stated by anet’s design philisophy
mass aoe that CAN actually kill a thief ingame = nothing short of a fleet of b-52s carpet bombing an area with a suspected thief
still this is balanced by anet’s standards.
Thief’s true weakness is a lack of damage mitigation. If they’re hit, they take the whole hit. Players who understand this, and the limitations and conditions of their other abilities, usually do well against thieves.
Maybe people would just be happy if they saw damage numbers when they hit. I don’t think it would hurt that much and add some fun in for people. Currently I don’t even think hits on stealth people show up in the combat log on the attacker’s side.
I agree, but the QQ won’t stop there. People don’t understand the mechanics of the thief as well as they claim, and that’s the real problem.
I think most of us understand how stealth work, and nobody can find a reliable skill based counter to it. Just spam AoE and pray…
The problem is thieves seeing things from their own point of view and comparing players who manage to land a heavy AoE or a stun AoE on them on stealth and think “aha! there’s a player who countered me!”..when the player on the other side was just spraying and praying he’ll hit something.
Numbers on stealth are something, not a hard counter, but it is something. The main problems with it is 1. It’s a soft counter, not a hard one. 2. Doesn’t help single target based characters at all.
1) I don’t think everything needs a hard counter, if players can improvise to work around something without a need for a button to do the job for them, that should be fine. Especially in the case of stealth, since Thieves’ defenses are so binary in nature. It’s either you hit them or you don’t, no boons to lighten the blow.
2)Being single target and ranged setups are at the mercy of a lot of factors, it’s the trade-off of spacing. CQ attacks ideally don’t hit them while they are able to CQ characters. Single target melees can still hit without a target.
By the way, in a straight out race, an ele with D/D can outrun a thief, especially now their signet matches the thief’s speed signet.
1. No, they can’t. D/D ele has superior mobility to your average thief, but your average thief isn’t using anywhere near all of their mobility tools.
2. If you’re ever benefiting from a speed signet then you let your swiftness drop, so you’re doing it wrong.
From what it seems, Europe has more people who try to “innovate.” Don’t quote me on this though.
That’s my experience with most NA mmos I play. We NA’s generally seem to like going for the biggest stick we can find, and stick with it. Whether or not it’s the optimal strategy isn’t an issue, we think it is, so it is.
I would argue that this game has copied Moba game’s mechanics. In Moba games there are items that weaken stealth. If there were none of these items, as there are in this game, everyone would have to go tank or stealth themselves just to survive. And this is exactly what has happened. Clearly, stealth in its present form is OP and culling is being abused terribly, making it worse.
How do you envision a stealth counter mechanic? I think something similar to a stunbreak is in order. If someone wants to use a utility slot to counteract one use of a thief’s stealth, that wouldn’t be out of line. The problem is that the majority of counter stealth mechanic suggestions are akin to “stealth goes away if the thief takes damage”, which easily negates the whole mechanic for almost zero opportunity cost.
No regain Initiative during stealth
Remove stealth from some weapon abilities, make it tied more to class skills, thus giving it a CD
done
Congratulations, you’ve successfully made BS burst specs and DB Condition build’s thief’s only viable specs, effectively forcing all thieves to go D/D if they want to perform effectively.
Don’t see how it would. That is all people run anyways. Would fix a lot of issues. Not sure how its fair that every other class in the game must run a tank spec just because your OP… fix one class to make all the others better.
To go further.
Bring the theif nerfs from spvp to WvW.
Make spamming any ability cost more and more initiative with each cast removing HS spam.
TBH the reason the other weapons are not used is because they are only 1.5x better than everyone else’s and not 3x like the daggers.
Here’s how it works. Cloak and dagger, is the lynchpin of P/D and S/D builds, P/D needing it for applying bleeds and S/D needing it to inflict Daze. Both builds require up-time to be effective, especially in S/D’s case. S/P and P/P are all unpopular sets and SB is kept for it’s very impressive utilities but despite that, not many players make builds focused on it. S/P used to be popular for it’s burst but since it’s nerf it’s been pretty much dropped off the map.
The reason D/D is left standing is BS builds are already on a cooldown due to their many boons and DB because it requires no set up. Upon thinking about it, D/P may see a slight rise, but it’d likely be only as it’s own BS build.
I wonder how it would even work considering stealth/stability. Seems like something that would require a whole new system and maps. Too much work IMO for it at this moment, although it would be a refreshing addition in the future once they get rankings, leader board, etc etc in place!
They’d likely make the Flag into an environmental weapon so you’d loose access to your skills when holding it.
I would argue that this game has copied Moba game’s mechanics. In Moba games there are items that weaken stealth. If there were none of these items, as there are in this game, everyone would have to go tank or stealth themselves just to survive. And this is exactly what has happened. Clearly, stealth in its present form is OP and culling is being abused terribly, making it worse.
How do you envision a stealth counter mechanic? I think something similar to a stunbreak is in order. If someone wants to use a utility slot to counteract one use of a thief’s stealth, that wouldn’t be out of line. The problem is that the majority of counter stealth mechanic suggestions are akin to “stealth goes away if the thief takes damage”, which easily negates the whole mechanic for almost zero opportunity cost.
No regain Initiative during stealth
Remove stealth from some weapon abilities, make it tied more to class skills, thus giving it a CD
done
Congratulations, you’ve successfully made BS burst specs and DB Condition build’s thief’s only viable specs, effectively forcing all thieves to go D/D if they want to perform effectively.
I think that once a thief engages a target, there should be a cooldown before they can re-enter stealth…
There is although it is way to short, it should be more similar to other popular MMO’s not needing mentioned. Make the stealth cool down after engaging longer and then give the Thiefs a 60 sec cooldown vanish utility skill again similar to the other MMO’s.
IMO I would prefer hidden characters to be removed from stealth if they are hit and not allow it to be reapplied for at least 5 seconds after being hit.
A second issue that perhaps should not be allowed is killing a downed player from stealth.
I’ve been ganked on multiple occasions by a pair of thieves or by a thief plus mesmer. This makes it incredibly difficult to survive as a glass cannon. It is easy to say dodge but by the time you know about the attack and are able to react your health can be down to zero. If they don’t get you first time they restealth and try again, trying to guess when that attack is going to come isn’t at all easy and you only have 2 dodges.
The problem with that is in anything over a duel, stealth would become next to useless with all the crossfire flying around. And if they brought that over to PvE with it, well high level areas are AoE city, Thieves have low defense and no passive damage mitigation so they’d be pretty much ruined.
Unfortunately not yet, but they may add it in the future, especially considering that they recently locked builds so players can’t abuse role swapping.
The reason Thieves solo so well is because very few people react to them properly, they don’t start trying to read the thief’s intentions, or put any sort of thought into trying to get into the thief’s head. Players who do use their melee weapons to keep on the pressure, because the thief used CnD, they had to be in melee range to land it, the player uses the attack combination of thier weapon to see if the thief is there.
Basically, the thief starts in melee range, when you attack, if you’re doing the combo, you are hitting the thief and running out his stealth timer. Far to few people do this acting more akin to npcs simply dropping thier attack and moving on. They don’t even use the thief’s downtime to ready themselves for the next attack.
Anet’s probably reluctant do anything to stealth because 90% of thieves’ survival comes from stealth along with a large chunk of their offense.
Thief survivability comes mainly from mobility against competent components. The misconception that stealth is a great survivability asset is one of the main reasons people keep clamoring for it to be changed. In reality, stealth does very little to keep a thief alive if they’re fighting an opponent that knows how to stay aggressive and track them in stealth. What keeps the thief alive is being more mobile than their opponent, which would ensure they stay alive regardless of stealth.
You’re absolutely right in your assertion that stealth nerfs result in more insta-kill backstab thieves though. The backstab assassin-type play style is one of the least reliant on stealth of any thief play style.
I was talking more big mix ups where sustained defense upkeep is a must. Most classes have healing and boons to stay alive, thieves are limited in that, mobility is great for escaping fights, however if you want to stay in the fights, and you get focused, mobility can quickly reach it’s limit. Stealth is pretty much what fills in this gap, cause it drops the aggro off you, and thieves are at their best when they aren’t the center of attention.
oh i think its easy fixed make them unable to enter stealth for a given time(longer then 2secs) and then the thief needs to think of when to go out of stealth and when to run away in stealth
lets say a thief comes up in stealth and opens fire from a distance then he have to wait 15-25secs before he can enter stealth agien in any way or form and from what i can see it will make the thief use there brain more instead of a rotation and position situation(and yes thats all they need to think about right now in my oppinion)
but if thats implented i dont care if he has a stealth lasting 2-3 mins each time he pops it if he wants to run it all the way out(tho a shorter one if he stealths allys)
Consider this, A BS thief only needs to stealth once to get his kill. (and only can do their combo once every 45 or so seconds anyways.)
And a tanky thief has no access to damage mitigation aside from 2.5 dodges and possibly 3 short range blinds, 1 or 2 retreat roles and one or 2 shadow step retreats before their out of sustainable damage mitigation. And they can’t take all of these without doing near base damage.
Nerfs like this actually promote using glass cannon burst specs, because they pretty much destroy all other builds.
Condition, balanced and tank builds would become unplayable.
Dunno, a thief that can kill one person fast. But a mesmer can portal in a whole zerg that can kill 20 people fast and take a whole tower/keep.
I would argue that a mesmers portal ability is more powerful than a thiefs ability to beat someone in a duel.
Thieves are powerful at killing players, mesmers are powerful at taking WVW objectives.
If u wanna nerf stealth, u gotta nerf portals too. aka make them only transport 5 people in max.
Portals have been nerfed to a limited number of uses. Thieves on the other hand haven’t been touched… I do not support the nerfing of any class rather wish that we could all max out how we run our own builds and get a preference there.
Thief has been touched a few times by damage nerfs. Anet’s probably reluctant do anything to stealth because 90% of thieves’ survival comes from stealth along with a large chunk of their offense. They’re very weak without it.
Where were the damage nerfs? Steal BS HS is still ridiculous in damage. Like half your health in a few seconds… But that only happened to me when I played as a thief in WvW
-Heartseeker: Reduced damage of the 100%-50% threshold by 20%. Damage thresholds changed.
Old: 100%-66%, 66%-33%, 33%-0%.
New: 100%-50%, 50%-25%, 25%-0%.
-Assassin’s Signet: This skill has been updated to grant 15% damage for 5 attacks rather than 50% damage for one attack.
-Cloak and Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 33% in PvP only.
-Basilisk Venom: Increased stun duration to 1.5 seconds. Stun breakers now work on this skill.
As for ones that don’t pertain to BS and HS spam builds:
-Dancing Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 50%
-Cluster Shot: This skill’s damage is reduced by 15% in PvP.
-Pistol Whip: Reduced damage by 15%. (Used to be complained about, now is no better then auto attack and S/P has pretty much been dropped by players)
I notice alot of those have only in PvP. So how does this factor into WvW where most people are griping. When you go to WvW you only get upleveled your stats for the most part stay the same as PvE… So do the ones that were nerfed for pvp also get nerfed for WvW? Does anyone have feed back for that?
If 2 is “a lot”, also not sure. I do know that I’ve never come to WvW looking for a fair fight. It’s not a balanced world, and there a lots of things that can kill you. I find the thought that one or more players can come over the hill and smite you stimulating.
Dunno, a thief that can kill one person fast. But a mesmer can portal in a whole zerg that can kill 20 people fast and take a whole tower/keep.
I would argue that a mesmers portal ability is more powerful than a thiefs ability to beat someone in a duel.
Thieves are powerful at killing players, mesmers are powerful at taking WVW objectives.
If u wanna nerf stealth, u gotta nerf portals too. aka make them only transport 5 people in max.
Portals have been nerfed to a limited number of uses. Thieves on the other hand haven’t been touched… I do not support the nerfing of any class rather wish that we could all max out how we run our own builds and get a preference there.
Thief has been touched a few times by damage nerfs. Anet’s probably reluctant do anything to stealth because 90% of thieves’ survival comes from stealth along with a large chunk of their offense. They’re very weak without it.
Where were the damage nerfs? Steal BS HS is still ridiculous in damage. Like half your health in a few seconds… But that only happened to me when I played as a thief in WvW
-Heartseeker: Reduced damage of the 100%-50% threshold by 20%. Damage thresholds changed.
Old: 100%-66%, 66%-33%, 33%-0%.
New: 100%-50%, 50%-25%, 25%-0%.
-Assassin’s Signet: This skill has been updated to grant 15% damage for 5 attacks rather than 50% damage for one attack.
-Cloak and Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 33% in PvP only.
-Basilisk Venom: Increased stun duration to 1.5 seconds. Stun breakers now work on this skill.
As for ones that don’t pertain to BS and HS spam builds:
-Dancing Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 50%
-Cluster Shot: This skill’s damage is reduced by 15% in PvP.
-Pistol Whip: Reduced damage by 15%. (Used to be complained about, now is no better then auto attack and S/P has pretty much been dropped by players)
Dunno, a thief that can kill one person fast. But a mesmer can portal in a whole zerg that can kill 20 people fast and take a whole tower/keep.
I would argue that a mesmers portal ability is more powerful than a thiefs ability to beat someone in a duel.
Thieves are powerful at killing players, mesmers are powerful at taking WVW objectives.
If u wanna nerf stealth, u gotta nerf portals too. aka make them only transport 5 people in max.
Portals have been nerfed to a limited number of uses. Thieves on the other hand haven’t been touched… I do not support the nerfing of any class rather wish that we could all max out how we run our own builds and get a preference there.
Thief has been touched a few times by damage nerfs. Anet’s probably reluctant do anything to stealth because 90% of thieves’ survival comes from stealth along with a large chunk of their offense. They’re very weak without it.
lol.
Thieves on the other hand haven’t been touched… I do not support the nerfing of any class rather wish that we could all max out how we run our own builds and get a preference there.