Guild Wars 2

As a thief I’ve gotta disagree with this. Sure I can go around scouting out enemy zergs and other minor objectives. But for big things like seiges, my lack of ground targetted AoEs leaves me unable to make a noticable contribution of the fight.

TwoBit.5903:

Dual.8953:

TwoBit.5903:

Dual.8953:

TwoBit.5903:

Well, if the state of PvP was perfect you wouldn’t hear much criticism.

If the state of pvp was perfect, no one would notice because no one has the exact same idea of “perfect”.
Player’s are better off to accept things as they are and learn to work with what their given. That mentality get’s a player to start looking at their situation and start problem solving and the more they problem solve, the stronger they get as players.

That’s the most backwards of logic. Players that accept imbalance and poor design only serve to feed them. Look at hotjoin and what new PvPers are introduced when they first start playing. ANet needs to step in and fix their game, because balance and a competitive environment is designed. It’s relative success of players using the strategies the developers encourage them to use and the format and environment they use them it. It doesn’t form from pure entropy.

How is it backwards? Labeling challenges as insurmountable is useless, and does nothing to help one grow. So if you reject the possibility that something is impossible to beat, the next logical step is to analyze the challenge and find a means to overcome it. It may be hard but once you make a breakthrough you can start building off that, fine tuning it, perfecting your execution, until finally you’ll overcome the challenge, and the spoils of this victory all the practical experience you’ve gained along the way.

Uh… what?
I don’t think you can call issues with GW2’s PvP “challenges.” The only challenges it offers to players at the moment is for them to coming back.

I’m not talking the things like lack of matchmaking, if that’s what you’re talking about. I’m addressing all the nerf demands.

In any case, on that note as with all things, there’s two ways of looking at anything. And I chose to take the optimist route. So my view on PvP currently is, it’s incomplete but more will be added, so may as well make the best of what “is” there. Let the rest come as it comes.

TwoBit.5903:

Dual.8953:

TwoBit.5903:

Well, if the state of PvP was perfect you wouldn’t hear much criticism.

If the state of pvp was perfect, no one would notice because no one has the exact same idea of “perfect”.
Player’s are better off to accept things as they are and learn to work with what their given. That mentality get’s a player to start looking at their situation and start problem solving and the more they problem solve, the stronger they get as players.

That’s the most backwards of logic. Players that accept imbalance and poor design only serve to feed them. Look at hotjoin and what new PvPers are introduced when they first start playing. ANet needs to step in and fix their game, because balance and a competitive environment is designed. It’s relative success of players using the strategies the developers encourage them to use and the format and environment they use them it. It doesn’t form from pure entropy.

How is it backwards? Labeling challenges as insurmountable is useless, and does nothing to help one grow. So if you reject the possibility that something is impossible to beat, the next logical step is to analyze the challenge and find a means to overcome it. It may be hard but once you make a breakthrough you can start building off that, fine tuning it, perfecting your execution, until finally you’ll overcome the challenge, and the spoils of this victory all the practical experience you’ve gained along the way.

TwoBit.5903:

Well, if the state of PvP was perfect you wouldn’t hear much criticism.

If the state of pvp was perfect, no one would notice because no one has the exact same idea of “perfect”.
Player’s are better off to accept things as they are and learn to work with what their given. That mentality get’s a player to start looking at their situation and start problem solving and the more they problem solve, the stronger they get as players.

In a siege, Eles and Necros.

In the open field, Thieves. But that’s kinda their job.

My best advice is analyze everything. If anything kills you, no matter how unfair it seems, don’t conclude that it’s overpowered. If you rule that out, your other option is to study it and see how it works, its strengths and weaknesses. Remember that, environment, positioning, and thought process are all factors. Your effectiveness largely tied to to your understanding of strengths and weaknesses.
Another biggy in tPvP is communication. Communication is critical in team play.
My last biggy for you is awareness, the more alert you are, the better you’re off.

Yeah the complaining is incredibly tiresome. Especially from some of the louder upstarts. I pretty much gave up on complaining about “OP” things a while ago, and through that adopted the philosophy that, if you refuse to complain, you’re left with only 3 options, despair, quit, or the route I choose, analyze and adapt. Not talking just builds, if you want tissue paper for armour so you can tear off death’s arm and use it as a sword. Just keep in mind there are threats that exist that you’ll have to react to.

Haven’t had a problem with it. As a condition build, I’d imagine it’d be easy for you to re-apply bleed. If enoumous stacks of bleed remained when the foe was downed, I’d imagine that condition builds would get really scary. Like possibly making it so condition builds could undermind downed.

XII? Have you ever considered actually learning how to fight Thieves, instead of spamming the forums with 3 copies of the same post bashing players who just want to play thier thieves and have fun?

Albane.8367:

They need to just remove the ability to remain stealthed while receiving damage.

That would severely cripple thieves to the point that they’d only be able particapate in fights against single targets and be noticably hampered there too. They would have near zero survivablity in PvE and in WvW they’d only be able to fight loners, senteries and dokyaks. In sPvP they’d lose all effective builds other then BS glass cannons.

I’d rather see necro, engie, and ranger get a buff to their downed skills. I’d say buff warrior, but they have Vengance.

Sounds nice at a glance, but I don’t think such a skill would benefit players in the long run. As it stands right now, stealth is a mindgame tactic that tests the player’s understanding of their situation and their ability to judge what their opponent is doing. Adding an easy out for a mind game may cause players to rely on this skill as a crutch instead of finding their own way to beat stealth.

Not even worried about what it would do to Thieves as there’s more then one way to be sneaky.

Kontrolle.3514:

iiMulch.2138:

Really wish people stop complaining about thieves. It literally takes me 5-10 seconds to kill a thief in a 1v1 unless they don’t shadow refuge and run like noobs. I’m a guardian btw. And yes thieves use stealth and dagger storm what’s the problem? Dagger storm is like the only good aoe they have and stealth only prevents them from getting owned. I’d your getting killed by thieves stop running glass cannon builds in wvw get some toughness or learn to play your class.

Try to play an engi against that, i switched to mesmer because all this oped “projectile reflection” It has to be nerfed or just make grenades not reflectable. Engineer is the only class atm that can be dangerous to his own mates. We talk again if you get killed by an engineer from your own server.

Really now? Dagger Storm is an elite on a 90 second cooldown. So it’s hardly something that can be spammed. If you have trouble with reflects like that, how do you survive classes where reflection is more prodominant?

kazi.6438:

Azure Prower.8701:

Why stealth when you cannot be caught due to mobility?

This is the problem with thieves right now. Once a thief decides to run away, there is no chance of catching them.

To those of you who play thieves, is there anyway to catch you once you’ve started stealthing/running? (I play engineer, if that’s important.)

Not sure about an engie, unless you get proactive with CCs, I’m pretty sure a D/D ele could manage if they really wanted to. Though most of the time, zergs don’t break up to chase me.
Most thieves learn quickly in WvW to split when things go sour (the hard way in many cases). Thieves are generally ill-equipped for long drawn out fights, so they instead perform a quick test of their target’s constitution, then either try to finish them off or decide it’s not worth the effort and retreat. So basically if you want a thief to leave you alone, make yourself a pain in the kitten to damage.
This is why some thieves a deterred from fighting soldier classes.

I generally go Thieves Guild and reserve Dagger Stom for large zerg vs zergs where I can capitalize on its reflect and whirl finisher.

Lipstickxx.1043:

Thieves damage is just a joke .

That’s cause it’s WvW. Gotta really watch your step there if you’re below 80. You may as well be a rabbit or racoon if a gears lvl 80 targets you and you can’t escape.

/sees warrior with low toughness, health, bull’s charge, and frenzy
/Sees him complaining about WvW in sPvP
/suspects his other weapon is a Great Sword
>_>

Relentliss.2170:

Other classes are not spamming aoe on the ground while being invisible and unattackable. I know no other aoe that stacks so quickly and does so for 14 seconds.

You know Uncatchable Caltrops are weak right? And Utility Caltrops (the ones hat last 14 second instead of 4 seconds with a reduced spread.) has a 40 base CD, so you can’t spam util caltrops. And Thieves can’t cap in stealth. And if you’re not guarding a point there’s no reason to stand in the caltrops.

I’d be more worried about griefers reporting your group’s intentions to the enemy, but then, serious spies already probably have thier own methods. It would add more noise to the chats if they just up and made all chat common, maybe let you whisper the enemy, but that would probably more encourage personal attacks then light hearted discussion.

Stealth already has a 3 second cooldown called revealed which makes them immune to stealth for 3 seconds when they end stealth early.

Dude. You’re just flame baiting now. Can’t even use Skull Fear without an enemy necro around.

Just wondering, what other options would Thief have for point control? Scorpion Wire would only work from the outside. Stealths are out, Choking Gas lasts all of 4 seconds, and their traps don’t push anyone back, Skull Fear needs a clean hit on a Necro. Are Thieves supposed to have no point control what so ever?

BringBackMonks.7068:

Dual.8953:

mjharrison.3209:

denyitbattle.2609:

Downed state […] increases the team coordination and skill required by a large amount.

Actually it’s quite the opposite — downed heavily favours the side with the greater numbers, not the greater skill.

Actual GW2 combat already takes plenty of skill, there’s no need to dilute and distract from it with a silly 4-skill mini-game.

Depends on how you play it. If the smaller team pulls together, they can easily overcome the downed barrier and use it to their advantage. In fact, That happened a lot of times while I was playing today. When you think about it, Downed makes no more difference in combat then Rez skills did in GW1, just now everyone can perform the same rez.

I disagree. Rez sig (standard pvp rez for gw1) brought someone back to life with full health in 3 seconds, and you didn’t have to be standing right next to the person who is usually in a huge aoe clusterkitten. Hehe I don’t mean kitten. Only downside was everyone only had one use on it, which was simply to make it fair. Now we get a ridiculous little game of cat and mouse that rewards zerg gameplay. Super fun.

Doesn’t have to be as mindless as you think. The strategy I see most is both sides pepper eachother with attacks until someone overextends. That person gets focused down, then the team either attacks the downed player to death or has a stomper go in while the team covers the stomper, then boom, then enemy is down one less enemy, get back to kiting. The strategy works on anything short of an ele, that 2 is pretty much a get out of dying free card in large battles. Well provided they didn’t over extend too much.

Xom.9264:

I HATE rally so many times some clown gets himself killed when the other team has multiple people in the down state…… They all get back up not just 1 all 3 happened at a keep fight today.

1 person get up for one death I could live it but all three got up. How the kitten is that skilled based game play that fight started 4 v 2 and we had three down when another from our team joined (glass ele in tpvp) was downed and killed that fast now its a 4 v 2 again but we already used everything we had so lost…. went from epic play winning a odds against us to pointless waste of time lost node and got zero glory for it.

That’s not a bad idea. So say in pvp, rally only effects the one closest to the stomp or something like that. Should probably still reduce the effective range to stem the “WTF?!” moments the mechanic sometimes causes due to the small maps in sPvP.

Why not make siege equipment show who built them so it’d be easier to report who commits these acts of foul play. And perhaps give option to remove Battering Rams when not in use or in a combat situation. Or the option for Commanders to reclaim equipment as a portion of supplies to the nearest stockpile when they’ve been acting as a commander on the server for a month and have a number of tower and keep captures under their belt.

mjharrison.3209:

denyitbattle.2609:

Downed state […] increases the team coordination and skill required by a large amount.

Actually it’s quite the opposite — downed heavily favours the side with the greater numbers, not the greater skill.

Actual GW2 combat already takes plenty of skill, there’s no need to dilute and distract from it with a silly 4-skill mini-game.

Depends on how you play it. If the smaller team pulls together, they can easily overcome the downed barrier and use it to their advantage. In fact, That happened a lot of times while I was playing today. When you think about it, Downed makes no more difference in combat then Rez skills did in GW1, just now everyone can perform the same rez.

Personally I like random chances. It takes people out of their comfort zone. Removing them imo would make things feel stale and predetermined.

xo wayne.6045:

Another aspect i would like to add about downstate, is that in some cases when a dot downs me while i am in an area where no enemies are, i attempt to heal myself which takes around 10 seconds to fully complete. Sometimes when i reach about 90% of being fully revived, an enemy comes in to down me. At this point i have just wasted about 20 seconds (possibly more depending on the situation) of doing nothing but trying to revive and attempting to stop the opposition from killing me. If i am unsuccessful in stopping my opponent i will also have to wait for the death timer which then makes me useless for about 30 seconds in total.

Imo i would rather just die instantly so that i may be actually in the game, helping my team.

That’s where the tactics of it come in. Look at it from the other side, you can hold off finishing your downed enemy and and prolong your numbers advantage.

I find rallies like any other factor, if you pay attention to it’s existence, and prepare for the possibility of it happening, it won’t bite to in the *.

naphack.9346:

themaster.9802:

Dual.8953:

Personally I don’t have a problem with Thieves culling. More when you rush into your garrison to stop the zerg from taking your lord and it takes you 10-20secs to realize you’re over extended and to your ears in Invaders.

Are you by any chance an Asura?

Maybe he’s a charr and twice as deep in kitten as you think :P

A short Norn. TC was assaulting our garrison today, I was late to the fight and it took a noticeable amount of time all the invaders to appear, once loaded I fought a BS thief and he was loading fine for me. Same as this Condition Thief I spent a good while playing cat and mouse with last night. (seriously though it, TC was going all in on this, had to be least 30 on the keep lord alone.)

Personally I don’t have a problem with Thieves culling. More when you rush into your garrison to stop the zerg from taking your lord and it takes you 10-20secs to realize you’re over extended and to your ears in Invaders.

Is the siege pool shared by all teams or is this spies coming in and building a lot of inert siege weapons to cripple the other certain teams?

Yeah, he goes on like it’s a rampant problem that everyone sees every day. Except if that were the case we’d see more threads about hackers then we see complaints about Thieves.

Anet has stated they’re focusing on getting their current system up to speed first before they start adding new modes. As it stands, I doubt 1v1 arenas would be balanced in the slightest anyways. Team balanced does not equate to duel balanced.

As to why they released the game this way, they stated, they had working playable content, and didn’t see a point in making everyone wait for them to have their entire PvP suite complete before letting us play. So now we play the game as they build onto the suite around us.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

NaturalPortman.9562:

Kline.9561:

NaturalPortman.9562:

I have never seen speed hacks or any kind of hacks in pvp yet but okay.

i have

on top of wall clipping and insta stacking conditions to 25 and one shot hacks

Fair enough, but you talk as if this happens only to gw2. Hacks will exist in EVERY single game.

Yes. The difference is when an exploit is found the respected studios will deliver a patch within weeks (often days) of the exploit being uncovered to solve the problem. The hacks demonstrated in some of the links I’ve provided have been an issue since launch of GW2. In fact, research shows that some of these tools were actually created while the game was in beta pre August 25th launch! So this is different. It’s a case of the game studio having a foundation that has cracks so large they are unable to secure their product. If GW2 were an car it would be a shinny new Ferrari with a bent frame and a cracked engine block. It was delivered this way, but the defects are under the hood. Garbage.

You really don’t understand how Hackers work do you. If the hacker’s hack get patched, they don’t just call it a day, they examine the patch and make a work around. It’s an endless cycle of patching and finding work arounds. No matter what, if something on a network that can be accessed remotely, (eg, the internet) someone can hack it, and if it’s high profile they likely will. If you want to play games without hackers, the only thing you can do is get rid of your internet.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Dual.8953:

@SamtheGuardian: Lol, Wow has a secure experience? I never even went anywhere near a gold selling site and my account was hacked 3 times in the same month no less. I eventually quit because of it. Anyways what server are you? I’m on Yak’s and as I’ve said, I don’t see any hackers.

Ignorance is bliss. Not really an issue if you just focus on PvE. I mean they are still there, but not impacting you. Since the game funnels most to PvP for end-game that’s really where this becomes an issue. Because your effort is kind of pointless when others get to use special rules that give them an advantage and there is no one to police it.

You misunderstand. I mainly WvW, and get around quite a lot looking for enemy activity to report. And those games I mentioned, S4 League and Lost Saga, they’re both mostly PvP, so I’ve know how hackers effect games. (They completely ruined Chaser mode for me in S4, been stun locked to death in LS)

@SamtheGuardian: Lol, Wow has a secure experience? I never even went anywhere near a gold selling site and my account was hacked 3 times in the same month no less. I eventually quit because of it. Anyways what server are you? I’m on Yak’s and as I’ve said, I don’t see any hackers.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Gintoki.6405:

i bet most of these “speedhacks” are just thieves using shortbow5 to teleport onto platforms. never seen an actual speedhacker, in spvp and in tpvp sure it happened in wvw. in terms of builds being pigeon holded. yes that somewhat true, most classes only have 1-2 decent builds with a little variation between skills. this happens in every game, obviously certain combinations are gonna work better than others. doesnt mean u cant come up with your own build which is similarly effective, but one of the thing the anet balancing team are working on is more build variation. update i think is 6th of december?

It’s irresponsible to provide links to proof here. Google and Youtube are all you need to provide the proof you’re looking for in terms of hacks being very common place in this game. The whole incident with the power orbs proves A.) How serious the problem is B.) How out of control it is for ArenaNet (again, they had to alter core play mechanics of WvW because they could not deal with the hack).

Hacker’s will get where ever they want, and no one can stop them, just slow them down, and the fact this game got hackers so fast was how popular it became. At any rate, hacker’s weren’t the only reason, they were mainly the result of how sought after the orbs were. Not that they should have been doing that. The Orbs had another problem too being that they were usually captured by the stronger world, just adding to that world’s power.

Anyways I haven’t noticed a “rampant” Hacker problem in my experience. Or really seen any hacker other then bots in PvE if that counts. And I’ve played games with hacker problems (S4 League, NA Lost Saga after the indos got IP banned from Korean Lost Saga.)

You want an idea of what a thief would be without stealth if they were given compensation? Look at Thief’s Spear. Underwater thieves only get one stealth skill, do deal with this, the devs gave thief the most evasive counter weapon in the game.

Anyways, I find Sin’s form or defense plays similar to Mesmer’s Distortion buff. Then again, I had Aura of Distress on my Sin most of the time in GW1.

It’s random drops mostly. If you participate you get a shot at some loot.

Same reason PKs kill players in other games. They enjoy it.

Main thing about Thief Spear, it’s a melee counter/evade machine. Probably because all but one of thief’s stealths (Hide in Shadows, 30 CD) are disabled in the water. I’m well versed enough in aquatic combat to give an sure fire method, but kite the thief with ranged attacks. Their Harpoon is way less threatening then their spear.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/State-of-the-Game-Discussion-with-ArenaNet/first#post895581
Here’s the thread

There are currently 24 worlds with scores ranging from 2197 to 692. If they want to keep is fair with so few servers and such a wide range of scores, it’s natural servers with like scores with bump shoulders a lot.

The devs said their going to add custom servers, but they’re going to add matchmaking and rankings first. Or something like that. Go find Xeph’s thread about the live stream. It should have an link to an hour long recording of representatives from the top teams discussing the game with Johnathan Sharp.

I’d like Dervishes too, but I’m not sure how they could be implimented. They drew their power from the 5 gods (before Kormir) and only Human follow them. Also thier concept of a melee fighter who specializes in enchantments was kind of taken by the Guardian. I think it’s a similar story for the Ritualist.

My advice to you is, if you want to enjoy downed state, the best way is to embrace it. Tool yourself to be able to finish easily after a downing someone. Or pick up a CC to keep the rezzer of your victim.

Yeah. My only advice is don’t engage Thieves in melee underwater. Thief’s Spear is one big ball of evades and counters. Their Harpoon is much more manageable and most their utilities are disabled underwater. Just watch out for Haste, and it’s good to have a retreat skill on hand to maintain kiting distance.

Downed after that much damage? Just how glassy are you running?

Niptease.8971:

Lol… an sPvP all-star thinking he is better than guilded “pro” tPvPers. Clearly you have never played tPvP at any high level. These “pro” players you speak of, would no doubt beat you 1v1, in fact, you could clone yourself, play two characters at the same time, and they would win 1v2.

Being a good team player does not translate to being a good soloist. True tPvP is competitive, but playing there does not reflect on one’s skill as a duelist, as a player who always plays teams, puts less time into perfecting his/her personal skills. It is entirely possible that a tPvP can crumble without the support of his/her team.