Guild Wars 2

30 second base. 24 seconds with the trait. 18 second cd with alacrity. There is also the inspiration trait that procs soi on an 18 second cd as well. They double cast soi in cs f5 then 2x out of it. So 4 times with the cs combo then 2x 18-20 seconds after. Repeat 2x again then repeat f5 combo. Over the course of ~75 seconds it’s ~8 soi.

10 seconds of fury and regen and 6 seconds of prot per soi cast. Each phantasm is 6 seconds of regen every 3 seconds. This is not a build focused on any of those boons. It’s for quickness. Those are just side products of a good chrono. Rev boons are literally useless because no reasonable group isn’t going to have a chrono doing this. I’m not saying rev can’t in other situations but in raids, there is zero reason to do it because the chrono can basically solo upkeep if someone primes them.

Traited stone spirit on a magi druid with rune of the monk is 81% protection uptime minimum. Obviously goes higher if they have more boon duration. Yes the spirit dies but again, chrono soi covers the rest.

If regen is applied by someone with high healing power (minstrel chrono) and other people are healing when they shouldn’t be and pressure is low then no, druids won’t build up ca fast because there is nothing to heal. If there is nothing to heal, you can’t go into ca every 8 seconds (alacrity) to buff gotl. I’m not saying I’m unable to heal but dps buffs suffer in uptime.

No you don’t have dps with 100% prot. At least not good dps. Try it on a golem compare out to the 30k of a pure condi rev I just linked. And again, it’s unnecessary with a good chrono and druid.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Glass_Arrows
I have a better name for shatter in impact. Gw1 functionality was nice too.

I’m not saying regen is bad at healing. It’s bad for other classes to apply it if they aren’t your druid. If you overheal people, then the druid doesn’t gain astral force and can’t heal as well. Let your druids apply the regen so that they can charge up CA faster. I also almost exclusively heal training runs as a druid so I’m not talking just spreadsheets here. I hate when other classes try to apply regen when I druid. It is easier for me if you don’t.

Regen, like quickness stacks to a max of 5. What determines who’s regen stacks make up those 5 stacks are duration (not healing power). After duration is decided and 5 stacks of them are in place, then healing power matters. It doesn’t require a spreadsheet to understand how Chrono regen works.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusionary_Inspiration
A single phantasms from a 100% boon duration chrono applies 6 seconds of regen every 3 seconds. 3 phantasms is 6 stacks regen which already hits the cap of 5 stacks. At MINIMUM, regen needs to be at least longer than 6 seconds to overwrite the Chrono stacks. Signet of inspiration applies 10 seconds of regen. Ideally the regen is longer than 10 seconds to override both. Ventari can’t even reach 10 seconds. The max duration a Herald can hit is 8 seconds with 100% boon duration. If you are running a Ventari regen build, the max you can hit is 6 seconds. Don’t bother. Literally, don’t bother. No amount of try hard elbow grease is going to override Chrono regen unless your chronos are severely lacking in boon duration.

Basic druid rotation is start with staff 2. Sigil of concentration quickdraw warhorn 5. Go into CA to buff/heal. Leave and cast the second warhorn 5 and back to staff. It’s an easy rotation. I do it all the time in raids. If I can’t bring a warhorn, Fern hound or traited healing springs is plenty of regen. Other classes/rangers can provide the fury while the Chrono shares it. You providing fury doesn’t make the Chrono rotation easier. They still need to cast SoI and 2x SoI is 100% fury uptime if someone else primes them. Tempests don’t worry because the trait is 100% passive. Doesn’t require a warhorn to use it. Stone spirit+SoI leads to basically 100% protection uptime. This isn’t just spreadsheet math. It’s what I see on boon uptime with BDGM.

I’m not denying that Rev/Herald can support. The boon support you are talking about is redundant at best and completely useless/detrimental at worst in raid comps that have a Druid/Chrono in each subgroup. If you are spamming Ventari skills, you aren’t doing the full potential DPS a Rev can do. Kain has it right with how to support on Rev. Embrace the unique stuff that only Condi Rev can do.

Regen from Herald is bad in raids. Like Chronos have “200% uptime” of regen from running inspiration. And druids have to deal with out regening the Chronos (requires boon duration gear) in order for their regen to bypass the Chronos. The benchmark to beat is 10 seconds or longer of regen. Since the herald facet is only 4 seconds, it’s impossible for a Herald’s regen to matter in raids. They also have the lowest healing power compared to druids/chronos so why bother?

Warhorn for druid applies both regen and fury so even if I’m not running a tiger, fury is covered. FGJ from warrior is also ~40% fury uptime. Once a chrono has fury, they can basically supply perma fury with double SoI. It’s really not that big of a deal. Protection is in a similar situation with double SoI although not 100%. Both condi and power tempests should be bringing this trait:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imbued_Melodies
which improves all boon time to the group and applies protection in a completely passive manner. Last thing about protection is that most subgroups are either condi or power. So in reality, you can bring stone spirit with either frost or sun spirit based on your group. Helps a ton if the group is casual. 7% power DPS loss in a condi group compared to a Herald draining their energy on protection instead of DPS…. I would take stone spirit any day and just ask the Rev to focus on DPS.

Frost spirit and druid warhorn are also like 12 stacks minimum of might from a boon duration druid. PS should be able to cover the rest.

TLDR on raid buffs: Have your druids play better and go full DPS condi revenant. Trying to do buff and dps on a Rev is a literal waste of energy and you do neither well once you factor in what the rest of your group is doing.

Ele’s condi DPS drops off a lot in raids for mobile bosses because the fields last a long time and while positioning really matters for condi ele. Condi Rev doesn’t have to care at all about moving bosses as the fire field is super short duration and torment does double damage for moving targets.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6cdg55/condi_revenant_stationary_target_realistic_309k/
The torment is like 11k~ which will double up to 22k on moving bosses so ~40k on moving bosses while other peoples DPS drops. Embrace the DPS and welcome to the club of classes that can DPS on their base class without elite spec power creep. Any future elite spec is now icing on the cake of build diversity.

Has anyone tested this with ice bow and FGS with sigil of geomancy?
Full viper, except the hat which sinister. Sigil of malice. Ice bow gives 20% bleed duration for 100% bleed duration in ice bow 4. Swapping to the bow and fgs procs sigil of geomancy.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAodnMIC1MgFNAWPA8RgFBALIAUAOAut2ZbttYTGGODA-TBiHQBA4BAoRlgEU5H50DkL1AonqPlb/hadCAIFwiKrA-e
At least for large boxes this gives access to both CC and I think even better damage than the build that only uses fgs. Don’t have all the condi gear for my ele to test yet.

It’s not that plague is only accessible to necro and not reaper. It’s that base necro doesn’t have access to RS3 and chilled to the bone stability which meant plague served as a very precious instant cast stability and blind. I think I mentioned this awhile ago but plague form needed the tornado treatment. Give it a #4 and 5 skill for more active presence and reason to not afk camp it.

I found the og plague useful in PvP even with reaper. Not as a gtfo/preventing a burst but as one of the few ways to get safe stomps for necro in team fights. RS3 was meh because you could still easily get pressured out of RS and chill to the bone had a cast time. If you got hit by a DH lb5/walls, it was also an easy escape to tap in and out of it without wasting RS. Never camped the form for that long.

With that said, they did give base Necro reveal on #5 so I don’t think they are screwing base Necro over intentionally.

Ideally, I think plaguelands should have been skill #5 on plague form or something to this affect where base PvP functionality is kept, but like lich #4, could be used also for DPS rotations in PvE. Could even force end plague form early when you press 5 for plague lands.

Ele (and tempest), Engi (and scrapper), Guard (and DH), Daredevil, Warrior (and Berserker) got sustain nerfs. Mesmer while “buffed” also had 2 major nerfs. Necro sustain through chill got nerfed. Rev needed the help.

Massive rework to sigils also just means power builds do not spike as hard as air/blood don’t exist anymore. Also a lack of condi burst sigils (aside from doom).

So you have had time to absorb all of this for PvP balance in 4 hours? and come to the conclusions that
1) Nerf to Druid healing is an atrocity worthy of response in caps lock
2) None of the trait changes for ranger/druid matter in PvP and that condi ranger isn’t viable despite giant changes to the meta and also sigils.

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anduriell.6280:

RabbitUp.8294:

You have spirits that with all their drawbacks are still considered staple in at least 1 game mode. Go take a look at what garbage skills and traits other classes have to deal with. Heck add “weapon” to “spirit” and you get a joke skill type.

Sure, the class has issues that could be fixed, like every single class in the game. In the meantime, it’s top dps and top support.

You are talking about raids and this is not the raids subforum, that is not even a full gamemode and it is said that not even a 10% of the playerbase do it.

Spirits for pve, pvp and wvw are completely useless, and ranger is not top dps and not top support in any game mode. In raids is only wanted as buffbot.

Fluffball.8307:

The argument is stupid to begin with, but raids or even raids and fractals are a pretty one-sided view of GW2. That’s not even a full mode of the 3 modes of the game.

It’s not just a fraction of the game mode. Spirits (and banners) are about buffing in stationary boss fights in raids, fotm, dungeons and world bosses. Basically any PvE group boss fight because PvE players like seeing big numbers and AI doesn’t complain about being hit by big numbers. That’s a huge majority of PvE and that is the major game mode whether you like it or not. PvP/WvW players just need to accept that some skills are just meant for PvE (and vice versa). WvW organized zergs are already crazy OP with the boon meta when fighting unorganized groups. If organized wvw zergs could have max PvE dps buffs on an easy uptime while mobile, it would break that game mode even harder than it already is broken. Same situation with PvP. You really want to have a warrior/druid/ele combo at mid team fights with the ele bursting for ~50k DPS. That would break PvP and turn it into absurd rocket tag.

Again, not everything is meant for PvP or WvW and that’s the reality of it and that’s fine.

Snipped complaints about how most stuff is useless…
So yeah, Ranger needs a full overhaul or any new spec will be nerfed to the oblivion like the druid has been or completely useless like the core ranger is.

Shouts Rune of the trooper can’t not be mentioned and it’s half the reason shouts on any class have been viable in WvW and PvP past or present. Even with rune of trooper falling out of favor for druids, the heal, elite and protect me are meta in PvP. Sic em, while janky, has it’s niche spot of reveal. The res shout, while not “meta”, I still see it being used to good effect in PvP from time to time. Guard is debatable. None of the shouts require overhauls. Just 1 with a bit of jank that could be fixed.

Traps are the other 2 PvE go to condi DPS skills and condi ranger is one of if not the best (partially because of how easy it is to play) practical DPS class in PvE. That dps does translate to open world too. Traps also have rune of the trapper and a niche wvw build. It’s meant to be a cheap troll roaming build that serves its purpose. Chill trap could maybe use a stunbreak to help full trap roaming builds a bit but again, not a full overhaul. They serve their purpose in their niches.

Survival skills: 1 PvE dps survival skill with sharpening stone, 1 “useless survival (Muddy terrain needs a KD) and 4 that are decent. There is also good trait to bring with it. That isn’t a broken utility group that need a complete overall. That’s 1 skill that needs a buff. Unlike the first two skill groups I mentioned, survival skills don’t have runes to buff them. Survival runes might come with future elite spec runes. Like if one of the new leaked elite specs had survival skills and the rune #6 bonus for that elite spec rune was survival skills heal you for 1-2k per skill used and muddy terrain had a knockdown buff. Now muddy terrain also procs moment of clarity. Fix GS5, again. That’s a viable self sustaining longbow/GS survival ranger for PvP. It won’t buff druid since druid needs the small constant heals of shout regen/rune of dolyak to charge up CA.

I can keep going on and talking about other stuff but the overall point is that Ranger isn’t broken beyond repair with a full overhaul required and stop complaining that some skills are only viable in 1 game mode. It’s better off that way. Make some reasonable requests, not absurd demands.

Doam.8305:

Azukas.1426:

Malice.8439:

I’m more of a pessimist. I’m just assuming they’ll nerf the hell out of Chronomancy, to make the new ES more desirable. :P

This is so true.

I expect all old elites to get gutted pretty bad to make way for the new ones. I’m hoping the new elite brings power shatter back into the meta.

But I feel its,going to be a afk AI meta for us

^
This

However no to the shatter part if Necro can get a different shroud and guardians different virtues then we can get different F skills.

Keep in mind both druid and condi ranger fit into the meta. Even right now, some team comps bring condi base mesmer and chrono too. They don’t need to nerf chronos to add an interesting new elite spec for mesmer that can fill a dps slot better/ differently than base condi mesmer.

Even if you don’t care about PvE, it’s a bad idea to basically say screw PvE balance. Skill splits also only affect numbers not functionality. Easy solution to this, don’t touch the top row: it’s always been used in PvE. My suggestions for WvW/PvP fire changes:

One with fire: Grant might and clear one condition when you apply fire aura.
Blinding ashes: when you apply fire aura, blind foes around you.

If you look at the meta earth/water/tempest build, fire could replace earth. Auto cleansing flame proc instead shorter cd on focus earth 4/5. Clear condi on swapping to fire/fire aura instead of diamond skin. Blind to prevent damage instead of protection to reduce it. Enemies take 10% more damage instead of you taking 10% less. More might in general from fire aura and one with fire. You could also possibly consider swapping cleansing water to powerful aura instead: while shouts as a baseline become weaker condi clear, “Feel the burn” has bonus condi clear from one with fire. Swapping to fire/leap finishers in fire fields also has baseline condi clear in an aoe with that swap. These changes won’t make fire meta for the bunker but it’s a “viable option”.

More importantly, I think it’ll give glassier builds viability. Air/earth/arcane fresh air for example, is an ok base ele build but could use a bit of a buff. Again, earth would be replaced with fire. Gives glassier builds some much needed condition clear and blind for defense while upping the offense. Maybe even go nuts with a fire/arcane/tempest which constantly swaps to fire for selfish healing and condi clear.

Leap finishers in fire fields = fire aura. The leaked sword may have leap finishers. Conjurer gives fire aura… Conjure flame axe 5 is a leap finisher too…. Again, probably won’t be meta and some conjures could use a buff but I think those 2 changes would add some fun build diversity potential.

Quickness, and boons in general, stack to a max of 5. Double soi, woa and tot are those 5 stacks. Since tw duration is shorter than the rest, it’s useless in ideal situations. Gravity well is decent cc and damage. That said, there are plenty of situations that aren’t ideal. 1 or both mesmers can be less than prefect. Tw hitting 10 ppl is great to cover the whole team. If ppl move around too much, boons are getting corrupted, alacrity can’t be at 100% do to said movement etc… Tw is worth it.

Not worst per say but a few things that need changes.

Combo fields don’t need a change. Like they could but that’s asking too much. Easy solution is change rs5. Torch 5 on berseker is a guaranteed fire field finisher with sword 2 because the field is on the warrior. Overload fire whirls in itself for similar reasons. Rs5 ice field just needs to be on the reaper. No more raid dps field problems. Minimal affect on pvp.

Spectral wall, make it a chill field for more combo synergy. Ethereal doesn’t make sense. Bonus grave digger chill spam below 50% in raids.

Plague form. Use it in pvp. Don’t want major function change or cdr. Safe stomps and the defense is too good in pvp. All I’d ask for is something akin to the recent tornado buff. Skill 4 based on which of 1-3 is picked. Instead of charge attack on tornado 5, add a pull enemies in or fear on skill 5. That way it’s not a boring passive pulse of conditions and nothing else.

I also don’t think lich form needs major changes. Why does pve lich form scale as a lvl 78 blue staff? If it scaled to the currently equipped weapon it’d be fine for power builds. Flesh of the master should change the timer to 45 seconds instead of 30 for jagged horrors.

Cynz.9437:

Still waiting for warrior mains tell me what exact build/class can actually deal with warrior without external help while not losing point. This is a legit question which i couldn’t find answer for so far.

I don’t win all fights but I have a decent chance at beating most warriors in gold3-plat 2 with condi necro in this and last season. Don’t use a meta build. Here’s mine:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLhZ6kGRozGs8GwvGg/GsgLYxXxu4YE6qFAWARbtJwHA-TZhHABAcCAKb/BBOCAA/AA6vMAA

Overall tips vs warrior:
Minions are a no go. Too easy to proc adrenal health and condi clear on burst.

Warhorn 5 at the start of a fight! (Also good advice vs guardians and thieves to clear blinds). Do not get hit by the head butt in 1v1. If they shattering blow (I know not all warriors have it but I see it from time to time), corrupt stability with plague signet to interrupt their headbutt. If you do get hit by headbutt, plague signet and dodge or flesh wurm out immediately! If you don’t, warhorn 5 is still ticking and can clear blind from mace F1 and help crit and proc the auto plague signet.

If they block, use Warhorn 4 to interrupt it. If they have stability and are blocking, use Corrupt boon to fear them through the channeled block to interrupt it.

If headbutt/berserker mode doesn’t happen, it’s an easy fight. Corrupt resistance for chill —> vuln/bleed and win. RS3354 if you are going try hard and they will be dead in 5 seconds.

If the headbutt/full adrenaline happens, you need to clear the swiftness, quickness and fury from fatal frenzy. They only pulse once. After this, the only boons that are constantly applied are might/stability and maybe resistance from the stance. Corrupting stability that pulses every 3 seconds means constant fear (and terror) which chills and therefore bleeds/vulns.

While I’ve seen a lot of necros talk about how terror is weak now, the pulsing stability that came with HOT and the amount of corrupts in this build makes it amazing. This build can stack lots of vuln and might rather quickly so the repeated terror procs really add up. 1.4 seconds per stability corrupt in this build. That’s up to ~1.4k damage per second or almost 2k per corrupt. Adrenal health cant take it. The build has 5 corrupts and scepter auto corrupt which takes 2.4 seconds to complete. For 15 seconds, the berserker has stability pulsed every 3 seconds. That’s 15 seconds in which most warrior meta builds have no stun breaks and I’m free to terrify over and over. If I get warriors to this point, it’s game over for them every time. If this plays out perfectly, the warrior doesn’t even get a chance to decap.

Is it a glassy build that gets focused easily? Yeah. Have flesh wurm up before you engage. If a thief or DH might teleport after you, preemptively place 4 staff marks on the wurm as a trap. Rune of nightmare means less condi damage/sustain but more duration if you really want to fearlock a warriors even harder.

TLDR: Corrupt stability/resistance to fear and chill. Trait fear to terror.

Ithilwen.1529:

-edit- Oh btw.. I’m playing GW1 intensively atm. There are hexes for just about any subset of skills and some general purpose ones as well. What you said there was not accurate.

Wandering eye, Clumsiness, Ineptitude were only attacks. Shame, Guilt and Mistrust was only spells. Diversion only affected skills but not attacks and didn’t actually interrupt. So no, there were no “trap hexes” that interrupted everything. What that meant for balance/counter play is you could still use a subset of your abilities when you got hit with a trap hex.

The mesmer interrupts that affected all attacks, skills and spells were extremely rare/expensive (as in 3-4 elites out of the entire mesmer skill list rare) and were 1/4 second cast skill shots while the gw2 variant you are proposing would affect every ability because gw2 doesn’t have that kind of distinction in it’s skills.

Ithilwen.1529:

@DuckDuckBoom To your comment of “just get good.” If it were as easy and practical as you portray, we would see interrupt Mesmers playing.

I realize that it’s fun to say “get good,” but in this case it’s not justified. Interrupt Mesmer is near unicorn status in PvP. The reason is that it’s too hard to play. The official wiki acknowledges this: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Interrupt See the comment under “Trivia.” Full Stop.

Are you denying that interrupts work for D/P daredevil just because an old interview says so? PI, Steal and pistol 4 work really well. Again, I can land interrupts on my Necro. The corrupt skills have a 1 second cast time but I still manage to interrupt abilities through stability because those corrupts turn that stability into fear (my interrupter). War horn 4 as an unblockable interrupt also works really well to stop channeled blocks. So not full stop because the interview is wrong. Interrupts work in gw2.

You don’t see interrupt mesmer for multiple reasons but not because interrupts are too hard to time properly. Interrupt mesmer existed in gw2 before HOT. Halting strike was meta. Sustain just isn’t there for power mesmer which makes interrupt Domination mesmers weak for this meta. Stability is too common. Your “fix” doesn’t fix the stability problem. While thief can steal stability/daze at the same time on F1 and necro can turn the stability against an enemy, mesmers cant. Mesmers can strip boons but most boon strips aren’t on interrupts and the boon strips don’t consistently remove stability. That’s why interrupt Mesmer is rare. Not because interrupts are too hard to time it.

So in that sense, it is a get good situation as you are complaining that timing gw2 interrupts is too hard. It isn’t. I fully support buffs to Mesmer interrupt builds. Requires better sustain/stability counters not what you are suggesting.

Ithilwen.1529:

I’m asking for a reliable interrupt. Thieves have a really nice one that auto attacks. With a reasonable interrupt, we’d see interrupt Mesmers playing.

I think that an on-block interrupt or adding interrupt to the full length of chaos storm would be two possible ways of getting there.

So in a team fight where the enemy team (or enemy zerg in wvw) is bombing an area. You walk into the node with shield 4 channel and interrupt an entire team (or zerg) if they don’t have stability. For chaos storm, you are basically asking for gravity well on staff 5. That is not balanced.

So it’s too hard to interrupt in gw2 because it’s too fast paced (it’s not) but seeing a one second cast ability that hexes you in a team fight and then knowing for the next second you can’t use any ability, so you spam stow weapon. That’s your definition of fair game play? You don’t blow an unimportant skill in gw2 when you know that halting strike (and the new interrupt sigil that will be added to pvp etc) is going to proc. You have to wait that out.

I don’t blow a shatter on traps. A clone is an easy mine sweeper. Gw1 hexes affected a very specific subset of skills. Gw2 doesn’t have that distinction.

Just get good. Mesmers and thieves interrupt me in pvp plenty. I even land interrupts on necro by corrupting stability at the right time. It’s one thing to ask for a dedicated interrupt weapon which I’m all for but hexes should not be the solution to poor interrupting skills in gw2

Stability spam is a “problem.”
Reflects preventing sword 4.2 and p5 is a “problem.”
Defiance bar ruining 1/3 of the traits viability is a “problem.”
The speed of gw2 or lack of cast bar is NOT a problem.

In gw1, there were plenty of 1/4 second cast interrupts in the mesmer kitten nal. Good mesmers could interrupt a monks reversal of fortune(also 1/4 sec cast time) with a 1/4 second cast time interrupt because it was about predicting what an enemy would do. Those 1/4 sec cast interrupt builds were very much viable back then. No cast bar would help you predict a 1/4 second cast. Gw2 combat is extremely predictable in PvP. A thief is going to d2 after p5. A warrior is going to Headbutt, F2, F1. A druid going into CA is going to spam heals. Low health enemies are going to use a heal skill soon etc. The easist thing to predict of all is generic auto attacks which can be interrupted. Gw1 interrupts either interrupted only spells or only attacks. If you wiffed a gw1 interrupt it did nothing. GW2 interrupts are actually easy mode (aside from above stability problems)and are still 1 second dazes for the most part. What you are failing to mention about wandering eye, clumsiness etc is that they had 2 second cast times. You really want that in gw2? Chaos storm now takes 2 seconds to cast? Headshot ftw because those fastcast interrupts are viable in gw2.

Carighan.6758:

On a whole, hexes would bring us a lot closer to a more specialized class, a disabler and CCer.

Maybe we just need bigger reworks? Actually ripping out skills entirely? It’s time to bring a larger tool to class balance?

Go play gw1. I somehow doubt you want to play a game in which Mantra of distraction only interrupts auto attacks while F3 only interrupts utility skills and SoD only interrupts other signets. Of course we cant forget a utility that does nothing but counter warrior adrenaline. Making base mesmer a CC/hex focused class when raid bosses have defiance would be horrible. Do you really want to have to decide if you need to bring Hex removal with one of your utilities in PvP. GW2 exists because gw1 balance was problematic on so many levels.

To be clear, I’m not against more of a gw1 style interrupt mesmer. I’m all for it. The elite specs and reworks I’ve been proposing are heavily interrupt/gw1 inspired but hexes are not the way to go.

New mesmer heal skills. Small heal on cast. It’s also a 1/4 daze with bonus healing if you actually interrupt something. New main-hand with an interrupt on short CD but no defensive skills. To actually translate clumsiness to gw2, would be a skill that would have a flashy 2 second cast time that gave you a 4 second shocking aura once it was done casting. Not a hex.

@carighan. Wouldn’t fix it. If I’m full zerker, I swap to Ventari for projectile negation in fotm. Mallyx for boon strip or condi control sometimes. Jallis for bonus hammer dps. Even herald is used in basically every build. What stat would that be? Same applies to pvp. Under your idea, I’d still have a sword equipped but suddenly I have no power when I swap to any legend besides shiro. This would be horrible for build diversity. Best case scenario dire, nomads or pvt could work but you would be forced to bring mace and sword main hands with mallyx and shiro. While pve ppl are forced to camp one legend. Any amulet or stat that has “purity of purpose” would suck for rev.

I think the easiest fix is to buff the offhands. Sword needs a better spike power dps on 4 and 5. Especially the sword counter attack should have like a 2-3 coefficient minimum. Axe needs burning on 4 so that a mace 2 burn build can work. Trait reworks would be nice but buffs to those are what matter more. Once a new elite spec comes out then what? Everyone talks about short bow but without herald shield what happens in pvp? Use the offhands that do less dps than auto attacks? Trait re works by comparison would be significantly harder to balance.

Edit: maybe bonus stats the way conjure weapons do things could work. Bonus 180 power and ferocity while in shiro. Bonus 180 condition dmg and duration while in mallyx. Bonus 180 healing power and 10% outgoing heal.

Have both of them. I’m indifferent to quip as I enjoy the confetti and the noise doesn’t bother me but I don’t love it.

The dreamer is fine on my thief as I just use #5 to port around although other thieves that spam 1 make it very annoying. Condi ranger is super annoying with constant 1 spam and I swap to a different skin in raids even though I want to keep the look. Rather than make it a small chance, could you give skills 2-5 the noises. Just like the proposed change, it’ll decrease how common the noise is but remove the random chance.

whetpheet.5921:

Well here’s a similar thing pulling over 20k dps….so sorry Fay, but you’re just being close minded here.

Here’s the proof. Now stop denying it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YSXezDxCXQ

whetpheet.5921:

More proof (Higgs)
https://padl.tk/u/ypqbTO2YYdAS

Not too familiar with the website but from what I can glean from it, the facts don’t add up. Squads are weird so I feel the need to call them out:
Squad 0: 3 ppl
Squad 1: 5 ppl (including Higgs)
Squad 2: 1 Chrono
Squad 3: 1 druid

You are in squad 1 and there are only 5 ppl so ALL of your buffs should hit squad 1. Squad 1 alacrity is:65%, 23%, 104%, 68% and 101% on yourself. Given that all your alacrity should hit you and you have a 50% bonus to alacrity duration on yourself, 101% on yourself means you are only providing 67% max to your allies. Then again, you have a second chrono in group 2 which are buffing 9 other ppl at random. So this isn’t cold hard facts of 100% alacrity uptime on your allies. Collectively 2 chronos averaging 75% alacrity on a boss that’s really easy to stack… and if the other Chrono has 3 shield phantasms up and wells… I don’t think you are even at 50% alacrity uptime on 5 ppl.

Quickness is actually close to 100% on 10 ppl. WIth double TW and double shield 5 on a boss that is easy to stack on, that should be given.

Also the build from the youtube video claims full viper gear with rune of the berserker. Of course you will do decent DPS in that build. It also only has sigil of concentration for boon duration. This isn’t YOUR build in the first post that you claim will get 14k dps by sword camping pure seraph gear with 3 shield phantasms. I’m not saying there isn’t a viable condi chrono out there: your “cold-hard facts” just aren’t adding up.

Eponet.4829:

Kodama.6453:

Eponet.4829:

[…]

Also, obligatory Axe doesn’t fit at all. A cloth wearing class should not be using an Axe without a shield or at least a dagger off hand, both of which base mesmer doesn’t have, and will thus be incompatible with it.

[…]

How did you come up with that stuff? Why should a cloth wearing class not be able to use an axe without a shield or dagger offhand?

Suspension of disbelief.

Obviously this doesn’t apply in the case of necromancers, since their axe is actually just a ranged weapon that they use to cast spells through, similar to mesmer greatsword/staff.

But when used physically, one handed axes are terrible weapons to use on their own. The weight is incredibly top heavy, meaning that they’re comparatively slow to recover with, even if you do use the momentum, and the lack of any sort of hand protection on a short shaft leaves the user incredibly exposed.

In order to compensate for this, unless you’re happy with the suicidal look, you either want heavy armour to do the protecting for you, a shield to block with, or a short off hand to parry with without getting in the way of the attacking weapon, which with our current assortment of weapons, means daggers.

The sword is an off hand that can parry attacks. Just use a small sword skin. This is also a world full of magic where mesmers use distortion, invisibility and illusions to defend themselves.

The post prior to both of us mentioned the idea of a trait line/elite spec giving boons to phantasms to boost their DPS. You and Fay seem to think it wouldn’t fix anything. I disagree and was discussing a hypothetical trait that would share offensive boons to the phantasms. I’m not forgetting the Fury trait but it’s currently mutually exclusive with DD for more bleeds nor does it share alacrity/quickness.

I find it hilarious that you think condi mesmers has such low DPS that it doesn’t compete with DPS when they are “meta” for a few fights like Kairn and matthias. The point of my math is that giving alacrity, quickness and fury to phantasms in the condi mesmer build would boost them a ton. It would be enough to make them useful/possibly the best dps in more than just a few fights.

What happens when an Ele or guard has to face a boss with a small hit box? Their DPS goes down. What happens when bosses are mobile and don’t stand in aoe fields? Condi engineer and ranger dps go down. What happens to mesmer? You bring an aoe interrupt to proc mistrust. If you are talking about VG, torch 5, pistol 4, Sote, pistol 4.

Run a DPS meter and stop focusing on golem numbers. That’s not to say I’m am against buffing damage from the mesmer. I think the phantasms buffs are in the right direction and just need to be made stronger but there is a close to viable/optimal option depending on the fight and sharing a few boons to them would make it even better.

I think we’re just going to have to agree to disagree then. I don’t think the realistic average skill level is 30k dps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2WmYjFRsCM&spfreload=1
I’m not seeing any of the 3 DPS people from qT going above 25k here at Deimos. All of them are being affected by Saul’s signet. I know it’s a daily run but still. If a Sublimato can hit 32k even with certain mechanics in play, that’s a big deal.

I’m going to second protection and regen being super important. Stone spirit is great for protection. However, the water spirit is terrible. Chronos apply regen that lasts at least 6 seconds. In order to bypass chrono regen, you need to have regeneration that lasts longer than 6 seconds to override. Water spirit is 3 seconds of regen and won’t cut it. A few options:
1) Traited warhorn (this rotation is harder and so I’ll skip it for now)
2) Fern hound (only pet that draws on ranger stats for healing/boon duration and will charge your CA)
3) Traited healing springs (Requires a trait to hit a 6 second base duration)

Next thing that I notice most new druids miss: they don’t use staff 2. Staff 2 can heal 10 people+pets etc 3 times per cast as it circles the boss. Staff 1 heals 3 people per pulse. Staff 2 is what lets you easily solo heal 10 people. So cast that staff 2 all the time on CD. Trait the staff because of this. The bonus heal trait on 6 is great when you are zerker/viper healing but with a magi healer, the staff trait is better. This also means you sometimes need to yell at new ppl to always be on the boss’s butt. Not only do they miss buffs but they also miss heals. If they don’t, let them die, tell them to stack on the boss’s butt for heals and try again.

Between random glyph spam (don’t even consider them heals just dps buffs), staff 1/2, regen and protection, people should not die unless they mess up mechanics. That’s where Staff 3 (and maybe 5) as well as CA 3/4 come into play. Each boss has it’s own momentum.

Example: VG: Heal the melee group with staff 1/2 etc… CA should be only used for green circles. Use CA3 to burst heal as people go to green, CA4 to sustain and buff then immediately leave CA and go back to staff1/2. If you need to use CA for an emergency and can’t use it for green circles, use staff 5/3 to heal the green circle group. If people keep getting ported, as mentioned above, let them die. If it’s only occasional, use staff 3.

Rising Dusk.2408:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Problem is not that Necro can’t compete. It’s that epi makes it a two or nothing if you want “competitive” instead of just viable dps.

It also means that one of your Necromancers has lower DPS while the one bouncing hits near-Engi-levels. Times this can be avoided are only if you have multiple targets for your other condi classes to cleave, then you can solo-bounce (Sabetha/Deimos). I also really don’t think normal mode Deimos is a great test of practical DPS because Unnatural Signet skews that heavily.

From the reddit link, it’s 14.8k DPS for 1 necro. The 7.4k is just splitting the difference between 2 necros. That math doesn’t include the engineer aura nor gotl stacks. So it’s probably closer to 17k split two ways. Add 5 more burn/poison stacks shared and it’s maybe 18-20k in ideal conditions which are all met in that 8-1-1 video I posted. However what’s not met is the realistic numbers for ranger/engineer. Sabetha is the “ideal” boss for condi engineer and ranger and yet that’s 4 condi rangers and a condi engineer hitting 18-24k DPS before the first cannon is up. Replace two rangers with two reapers and those epis should be hitting 16k (low balling it again even though I’m pretty sure it’ll be higher) and that’s an 8k split boost to what? Do you really think a decent reaper won’t be hitting 16k pre epi casts on Sabetha? I see solo reapers in my casual guild’s training run hitting 16k without epi. It’s not that one Necro hits almost engineer levels. It’s that one should blow way past all the other condi classes and it averages out to decent for both.

Ty for the context Sublimato. I realize it’s not ideal on that fight but could you run a group DPS meter when running double reaper bouncing epi for a few fights? I’m just not convinced Necro condi dps is as bad as people claim once epi is factored in. I know it’s not ideal for every fight but neither are most of the top DPS classes.

Rising Dusk.2408:

…
The problem is that a Necromancer realistically doesn’t even begin to compete with other classes.

Given that condi groups are being more common in the form of ranger, engineer and ps condi warrior, fire fields aren’t exactly uncommon.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4vivo3/calculating_the_value_of_epidemic/

Burn and poison stacks are more likely to be at 25 with condi teams. Double necro means torment is not at zero. Let’s not guess though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_EHmPpoRKA
That’s ~50-100 burn stacks. 40-75 poison stacks. So epi is hitting harder than discussed back then but let’s just call it 7k for each necro.

With condi engi at an unlikely (given the skill required) 34k dps being the number to beat, Necro only needs to get to 27k pre epi.

And then Sublimatio hits 32-34k on an actual boss when using epi.

Problem is not that Necro can’t compete. It’s that epi makes it a two or nothing if you want “competitive” instead of just viable dps.

OriOri.8724:

Yup Carrighan nailed it. I think you still missed what I was trying to say Daniel Handler. Even though chrono can bring more utility than a healing rev can, we have to invest everything into our alacrity rotation, and keep a very strict rotation if we even hope to get that high while maintaining quickness. Yet rev literally presses 1 button and has as high of an alacrity uptime as we can pull off. Its annoying to say the least.

Rev has a minor trait that has better alacrity generation than anything that Chrono got. Even our shatters can’t generate 75% alacrity uptime on just ourselves, and they involve a bunch of skills intertwining to both summon the illusions and then destroy them.

Its very annoying that Rev has it so incredibly easy to keep such a high alacrity uptime while chrono has to work their kitten off, relatively speaking, to get anywhere near that for party members.

The quickness rotation is hard. The timing of distorts can be hard to pair with said quickness rotation. While this rotation is paired with alacrity, don’t get confused into thinking that Chrono somehow has it harder than Rev to maintain alacrity. Think about it this way, if I want to mimic ventair rev to max out healing and alacrity uptime and nothing else since the ventari Rev provides nothing else.

Inspiration, illusions, Chrono full magi/healing.
Shield 4, SotE Shield 4 = 100% uptime on alacrity.
Spam mantra of pain 5.8k heal in a 360 radius aoe. The herald heal has a 1 second delay and effectively a 4 second CD if they cast nothing else and a 240 radius. The chrono can chain the other mantras on CD for more healing while the Herald only auto attacks. Unlike the Herald, you also have 100% passive regen from phantasms for another 540 health per second and room for more utility.

So if you actually compare apples to apples, two builds that due nothing but heal and provide alacrity, Chrono alacrity is so much easier and better with 100% alacrity uptime and the healing isn’t that far behind when you chain mantras together. Meanwhile Ventari is at 75% alacrity uptime if they don’t ever move the tablet or swap legends and everyone stands perfectly inside that 240 bubble. If they swap to herald for boons/CC every 30 seconds, this drops down to 50% alacrity uptime. If they have to move the tablet a few times that’s another drop in alacrity uptime.

Fay.2357:

Levetty.1279:

Exciton.8942:

OriOri.8724:

Xenon.4537:

Exciton.8942:

Quickness buffing is something that is very likely to be given to other professions.
Engineer sounds like a good candidate.

Absolutely. Not that quickness was ever a “mesmer only” thing, it’s just that Anet seems to want quickness to be the only thing chrono is good for.

And that, to me, is the perfect reason to not give this level of quickness support to any other profession ever. At this point its all chrono is in PvE, a quickness and alacrity bot. Its not good at anything else, at least not good enough to where another class isn’t already better. So if another class gets even a portion of the quickness uptime that chrono does, chrono deserves some serious changes to make it better.

I am hoping next elite spec will let mesmer copy all her boons to her clones/phantasms. That might give mesmer a potential DPS option.

How?

It wouldn’t.

If there was a trait in Dueling that gave phantasms fury, alacrity and quickness whenever the mesmer received those buffs, ~38% more crits for dmg and sharper images (73%/53%). Quickness and alacrity would mean unloads…
1.6 second channel 6 second base cd. 5 second CD with ph.
~1.07 second channel and 3.76 CD with quickness and alacrity.
Ends up being about 30% more damage from duelists due to attack rate, 38% more crits. If phantasms also inherited mesmer% modifiers (scholar, seaweed, gotl etc), would be so happy.

Benchmarks don’t include bonus torment and bonus confusion. Given that DPS meters are showing that most tempest are just really bad at doing a decent rotation, It would be enough. Maybe not records but only about 30? ppl are setting those.

Went in game to double check the interaction before saying you were wrong about interrupt/confusion interaction and I come back to a red post o-O.

Confusion bonus proc is caused by both the enemy starting to cast an ability as well as you interrupting a channeled ability. So you get double confusion damage from interrupts there. Otherwise it’s a single proc for interrupting non channeled skills.

It’s not as bad as you think. Slow helps land said interrupts. The issue is that breakbars make this near pointless in PvE and rediculous amounts of stability compared to boon strip (or lack there of) from condi builds that go dueling is the issue.

Kayte.5378:

Xenon.4537:

I seem to remember predicting this over a year ago but I can’t find my post… I’m not surprised in the least Anet did this. Look at their track record.

• Confusion was a mesmer thing
• Moa was a mesmer thing
• Torment was a necromancer thing on shroud 5 skill at first

I’m sure there’s more examples. This stuff is typical of RPGs. They introduce a mechanic or ability that is unique to one class, then later on they spread it around for balance reasons. It’s like entropy. Homogeneity among RPG classes always increases over time. Don’t be surprised when engineer gets alacrity on one of their elixirs. Don’t be surprised when warrior gets a quickness banner. Maybe a year from now chronomancer will be completely replaceable.

Nah, because with your logic, Chronomancers will have spirit weapons and be top dps.

It’s like a bunch of mesmers have been asking for DPS elite specs. If one day we get the DPS we’ve been asking for and become interchangeable with tempest DPS…. it’s almost as if we would have more class/build diversity that everyone wants. Can’t have that. Better whine now. /s

Let’s speculate what Mesmers will “steal” from other classes.

Introducing a brand new condition called torment to DS#5 for necromancers!
Introducing wells as a unique type of Necro utility.
Distracting strikes (confusion on interrupt for warrior) was a thing since beta.
Channeled blocks with shields for warrior and engi!
Passive 25% move speed traits and traits that reduce movement impairing condition duration on warrior.

Oh hey, look at mistrust… a trait added with the spec overhaul that also applies confusion on interrupt and now mesmers are better at torment than Necros while Mesmers also use wells.

Ventari rev has not removed Chrono in the slightest with this patch. I don’t think it was the right move (should have been gotl) but the idea of sharing abilities across elite specs with moderation isn’t a bad idea for balance.

Erzian.5218:

leman.7682:

I will be testing the new dps with my friends, but there are some interesting venues worth exploring with trait/rotations for raids. Possibly even something new for PvP, but that’s yet to be determined.

It would be interesting to see what the dev behind these changes thinks of GS’s usability and position in PvP and PvE right now.

From what I have briefly tested for pve (sr, reaper, spite):
- Shroud 2-4 are a dps loss compared to shroud 1 (with dhuumfire)
- GS has higher dps than shroud overall despite the auto attack being weaker
- Overall dps is still trash compared to other dps classes and probably behind condi nec which also got minor buffs.

Have you tried using wells/GS4 then getting the bonus Ferocity in RS for a few seconds while the aoes pulse then leaving RS for more gravedigger?
The bleeds on chill might still be better for power GS builds though.

Taking a closer look at the Ventari buff. They gain 5 energy a second. 3 seconds of alacrity on a skill that costs 20 energy so it’s not sustainable to camp and spam for 100% uptime. I’ll have to check in game but it seems like they will have to swap legends every 10 second and spam a single button for 10 seconds while in ventari and have zero energy for everything else. This will give them 15 seconds of alacrity every 20 seconds (does alacrity affect legend swap? might be slightly higher).

Anyhow, I don’t care that they gave them alacrity. I was personally thinking Ventari should receive gotl though. Chrono still very much has a strong spot in raids and class diversity was increased. How is that a bad thing?

If it’s a full power team then the druid and ventari herald could be in opposite groups. Or the chrono could be minstrel. Group 2 also has the necro blood auras for “amazing sustain.”

New meta comp: Certain abilities have been buffed to affect 10 people:
Banners (but not empower allies), gotl (but not spotter/spirits) and TW.

Group 1: Power
Berserker: Empower Allies
Ventari Herald: Assassin’s Presence + Alacrity group 1
Druid: Spotter/Frost/glyph
Power DPS #1 (DH for bonus quickness shout)
Power DPS #2

Group 2: Condi
Chrono: Alacrity group 2 + 10 ppl quickness (ToT and TW)
Condi DPS: Ranger (Spirits/spotter)
Cond DPS: Engi: 150 bonus condi damage aura
Cond DPS: Not Engi (Ranger/Necro/Mesmer/Warrior)
Condi DPS: Not Engi (Ranger/Necro/Mesmer/Warrior)

All groups gets banners. All groups get gotl. Both groups get alacrity. Condi team gets condi aura buffs (spotter, sun, pinpoint) while power team gets bonus power/ferocity and frost/empowerment. So what really matters is can Chrono now provide aoe quickness to 10 people with TW and ToT? Or more so, can it provide enough quickness that a DH shout can cover group 1 while obviously group 2 has perma quickness as usual.

Overall it looks like a lot of class diversity.
Edit: There is still the issue of organized groups using double chrono for distortion share.
Edit 2: If distortion share is needed, there is still the idea of having 2 chronos with ToT and TW being enough quickness for all 10 people.

Doam.8305:

Not only does the dreamer scream mesmer but also when you think about a 1 handed weapon and mesmer shouldn’t The Moot be the weapon of choice.

I have the dreamer.
I use the skin on my thief since it’s an occasional #5 and matches the unicorn finisher.
Condi ranger… I only transmute the shortbow to dreamer for a single raid boss to annoy the hell out of my team. I can’t stand the constant Neigh! Neigh! Neight!! for 50% of my rotation.
Hypothetical mesmer shortbow with 3 clones shooting ponies: I will murder/instakick any mesmer that does that.

Curunen.8729:

I absolutely love the idea of mainhand Axe.

And also if it is a melee condi/hybrid weapon – finally a good alternative to Sword. Kind of getting bored with Sword as our only melee weapon.

I too love the idea. Elite spec ideas I’ve tossed at the forum have been about main hand axe having a cleaving interrupt. Best way imo to make it hybrid given halting strike and mistrust.

Silverkey.2078:

I think people are overall happy with the current balance in terms of class comparison (all classes have a meta build or not too far in all game modes).

So for a large balance patch, I expect

• build diversity (mild power mesmer buff, maybe buff of wells)
• possibly the start of a long series of nerfs to prepare for the next elite specialization OP-ness.

I have to agree with current balance between classes being pretty great. Necro and Rev could use a bit of a PvE buff but overall class diversity is pretty strong. They just need to try to improve build diversity within each class.

The PvP team buffed base Virtues but not DH virtue’s last patch. I hope that buff is extended to the rest of the game this patch. Unfortunately, it’s unlikely that buffs like this will happen to Mesmer as there aren’t base shatters. It’s hypothetically possible to have a mesmer Mind wrack and a chrono Mind wrack balanced separately but unlikely. Hence me recommending buffs to traitlines that the meta Chrono build doesn’t bring. Just have to wait and see.

FrostDraco.8306:

Crinn.7864:

FrostDraco.8306:

That won’t change ANYTHING because mesmer sword STRIPS BOONS on auto attack. That would just cement mesmers further and do NOTHING for necro.

Boss pulses 3 boons.

What now mesmers

This would just hurt necro even more as boon corrupt only affects one boon every 3 auto’s for scepter, while mesmer strips a boon every auto.

The only thing this would benefit is power necro’s taking wells, but wells have a short duration and a long cd, which defeats the point.

Chonos often don’t complete their sword auto chain as they are spamming other skills and it’s only the 3rd auto that removes a boon. Hypothetically, if a boss gained 3 or more boons every 10 seconds and the Necro used Corrupt boon (3 boons removed) then dagger 4 every 10 seconds:

Corrupt boon transfer: 12 seconds poison, 2 stacks of 24 second bleed, 1 stack of 16 second bleed from blind/chill.
Fury → Blind redundant with chilling darkness ICD from dagger 4.
Prot → Vuln: Group isn’t doing 33% reduced damage
Regen → 20 seconds of poison and also prevents healing which is basically dps.
Stability/resistance → Chill/16 second bleed.
Vigor→ 3 stacks of 20 second bleeding.
Retaliation → 3 stacks of confusion for 9 seconds and your team doesn’t kill themselves.

That’s DPS and team support that would make Necros viable.

SlippyCheeze.5483:

Note: even the “realistic” DPS benchmarks at qtfy are on the target golem, which means no effort avoiding death, doing mechanics, etc.

It is extremely likely that the ANet team use numbers based on real world performance, in raids among other places, to balance classes. They do actively boost underperforming weapons routinely.

So, while it isn’t impossible that GS reaper isn’t as good as other options, it is also highly unlikely that the overall performance of the class with it is that far below everyone else.

I do think power Necro needs a buff like 10% more damage with the GS trait but yeah… with the DPS meters it’s pretty obvious that a lot of Eles don’t do nearly as much damage as they “should.” I wouldn’t be surprised to see the average pug Ele do similar damage to a Pug reaper spamming wells and 2. There is also the practical side of Full valkyrie making the Scholar bonus much easier to keep up 100% of the time compared to my Ele being brought below 80% health from a single boss aura tick.

Power reaper does fine for solo DPS when it can stack 25 might and vuln by itself while shroud is easy to flash to block damage and has 50% damage reduction on top of rise bringing another 33%. But that’s not what happens in organized group content and that’s the point of buffing Reaper GS DPS. It’s the raid DPS that sucks. So why are you bringing up a heal that warriors don’t use in raids?

Zenith.7301:

Greater health pool doesn’t matter in PvE since everything can be avoided by dodging and whatever can’t be dodged, a druid or staff water ele will heal back up.

If greater health pool doesn’t matter then what is the problem with buffing two traits that puts power reaper in a good spot but requires berserker/assassins gear like every other power DPS class?

Zenith.7301:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Having RO give 15% attack speed to everything wouldn’t actually buff raid Reaper. Similar increased attack speed traits from warrior and mesmer don’t stack with quickness.

There is that “balance problem” of Necros are “tanky” and shouldn’t be able to do as much as squishy classes. I don’t personally believe that it should hold the class back but this idea is exacerbated by two traits that give 50% crit chance which frees up a stat to be vitality instead of precision.

GS trait do 10% more damage and 20% CD while wielding a GS.
Dhuumfire also gives 10% more damage to burning targets on top of burn on RS/DS1.

Both would be mutually exclusive with the 50% crit chance traits which would force max power DPS to go full berserker. PvE raid DPS has burning from other classes. PvP/WvW Dhuumfire goes with a hybrid amulet like carrion. 50% crit chance traits still remain a viable alternative in open world and PvP.

21% more damage to 27k = ~32.7k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4sXFsow6rM&feature=youtu.be
And this is outdated as there were more GS buffs? and I vaguely recall hearing 28k for power reaper? So the numbers should be ~34k? That puts it at a pretty competitive spot against qT benchmarks, especially given how easy the rotation is. Not fair to call Chilling Nova and Chill of Death worthless when all it takes is 2×10% modifiers to make power reaper worthwhile.

Necromancer is no more tanky than warrior or revenant.

They’re the easiest targets to train down by far because their self healing sucks and all death shroud does is delay the inevitable while also nerfing your damage and denying you access to utilities.

What part of my post made it sound like I personally was ranting about Necro tankiness, especially in PvP? I am very much aware that Necros can get demolished when focused. I solo q to plat on a deadshot amy reaper.

That doesn’t change the fact that 50% crit chance is equivalent to 1050 precision which winds up being 9600 more health on a high base health Valk necro which you want to fill a DPS role. 10% dmg being mutually exclusive with that trait isn’t unreasonable.

Having RO give 15% attack speed to everything wouldn’t actually buff raid Reaper. Similar increased attack speed traits from warrior and mesmer don’t stack with quickness.

There is that “balance problem” of Necros are “tanky” and shouldn’t be able to do as much as squishy classes. I don’t personally believe that it should hold the class back but this idea is exacerbated by two traits that give 50% crit chance which frees up a stat to be vitality instead of precision.

GS trait do 10% more damage and 20% CD while wielding a GS.
Dhuumfire also gives 10% more damage to burning targets on top of burn on RS/DS1.

Both would be mutually exclusive with the 50% crit chance traits which would force max power DPS to go full berserker. PvE raid DPS has burning from other classes. PvP/WvW Dhuumfire goes with a hybrid amulet like carrion. 50% crit chance traits still remain a viable alternative in open world and PvP.

21% more damage to 27k = ~32.7k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4sXFsow6rM&feature=youtu.be
And this is outdated as there were more GS buffs? and I vaguely recall hearing 28k for power reaper? So the numbers should be ~34k? That puts it at a pretty competitive spot against qT benchmarks, especially given how easy the rotation is. Not fair to call Chilling Nova and Chill of Death worthless when all it takes is 2×10% modifiers to make power reaper worthwhile.

Gwaihir.1745:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

eldenbri.1059:

Fair point. My goal wasn’t trying to say that my build is extremely unique. In fact, I was trying to say that it seems like the most viable WvW roaming build is condi, and that nearly all condi builds are Chrono, Illusions and Inspiration. So it’s hard for Anet to make changes that don’t nerf that build but still give options for theorycrafting
…

That’s not the case. There are 3 other trait lines they could buff. I’ve talked about a few buffs to domination before but I’ll just quickly go over a few that could make theorycrafting better without nerfing those 3 traitlines:

1) Rending shatter: When you strip a boon on an enemy, remove a condition on yourself (1 sec ICD)
2) GM: When you strip a boon, do bonus power damage.
3) Mental anguish: All shatters (F1-F5) now do a bonus 0.25 power coefficient per illusion.

Basically only F1 works for power damage (F3 if traited) so the current mental anguish only really buffs F1 even though it “buffs all of them.” Meanwhile all shatters do conditions damage with illusions. Adding some active sustain and power damage to all shatters in domination could push for people to try and swap inspiration or illusion to domination. It would even give you a reason to run shattered strength instead of MtD.

Change Furious interruption to
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dismantle_Fortifications
Give Dueling a heal on interrupt trait.
Change chaotic interruption to transfer a condition on interrupt instead of random chill/cripple/blind since those are cleared so easily now.
Dom, Dueling, Chaos interrupt mesmer can now compete in this meta.

None of those changes nerf the current meta but do increase diversity / theorycrafting.

1. absolutely not. That’s basically PI thief on crack.

1) Base mesmer doesn’t have head shot spam.
2) Dom, Dueling, chaos would not have access to all that good stuff that comes with chrono (25% move speed, shield, gravity well for aoe interrupts F5 alacrity etc.)
3) Furious interruption would be mutually exclusive with removing boons on shatter. So the mesmer would have to pick either extra good at stripping stability to land interrupts or generically good at removing boons. Realistically, it would only work against classes that have a constant passive 1 stack of stability.

eldenbri.1059:

Fair point. My goal wasn’t trying to say that my build is extremely unique. In fact, I was trying to say that it seems like the most viable WvW roaming build is condi, and that nearly all condi builds are Chrono, Illusions and Inspiration. So it’s hard for Anet to make changes that don’t nerf that build but still give options for theorycrafting
…

That’s not the case. There are 3 other trait lines they could buff. I’ve talked about a few buffs to domination before but I’ll just quickly go over a few that could make theorycrafting better without nerfing those 3 traitlines:

1) Rending shatter: When you strip a boon on an enemy, remove a condition on yourself (1 sec ICD)
2) GM: When you strip a boon, do bonus power damage.
3) Mental anguish: All shatters (F1-F5) now do a bonus 0.25 power coefficient per illusion.

Basically only F1 works for power damage (F3 if traited) so the current mental anguish only really buffs F1 even though it “buffs all of them.” Meanwhile all shatters do conditions damage with illusions. Adding some active sustain and power damage to all shatters in domination could push for people to try and swap inspiration or illusion to domination. It would even give you a reason to run shattered strength instead of MtD.

Change Furious interruption to
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dismantle_Fortifications
Give Dueling a heal on interrupt trait.
Change chaotic interruption to transfer a condition on interrupt instead of random chill/cripple/blind since those are cleared so easily now.
Dom, Dueling, Chaos interrupt mesmer can now compete in this meta.

None of those changes nerf the current meta but do increase diversity / theorycrafting.

It shouldn’t be a problem in fotm but magi inscriptions are much cheaper than clerics

If Ventari gave gotl stacks, no neither ventari nor druid would be “forced to heal.” If Rune of Chronomancer gave 2 seconds of aoe quickness, Necros could also be a quickness bot too. So no, there is no forced meta with new elite specs if done right.

Then again, there is no forced meta right now.
I raid/fotm with a Chrono that swaps between berserker, commander and minstrel depending on if he wants to heal/tank some.
I raid/fotm with an ele that swaps between zerker and magi gear if he wants to DPS/heal.
I raid/fotm myself with as zerker, zealot or viper druid.
Just depends on if one of us is bored and feels like something else.
There are also other rangers/druids in the groups (up to 3 in a raid squad) that also swap between viper druid/ranger.

Rangers are not the only decent/required healer nor is there only 1 spot for a ranger/druid in raids and fotm. Dedicated healing is also not required in fotm.

Agent Mulder.4531:

It’s awful. I do high level fractals mostly, and even when I switch to sword/axe to raise my DPS, I can’t last long in melee range since we have no blocks/reflects/etc in the meta builds. Even with that increased DPS, we’re dead last out of every single major build in the game : https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4v76gq/qt_updated_guides_and_dps_benchmarks_for_all/

On top of that, longbow builds up the avatar bar SO SLOWLY compared to using a staff. But I can’t even use a staff because I need the CC from my longbow. So I can’t even be a reliable healer.

I honestly don’t even join groups that already have a ranger because I know we likely won’t have enough DPS to win.

Uh…. Axe 5 is a reflect and Staff 5 is projectile blocking. Quick draw them if needed although the staff is often overkill.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAsXTnMqAtqgVsC2sCEtilFBb5yFAGcMHgw1AAeqeV3qA-ThRBAB4pHAgHAwV7PK/oU9HLOBAmpEEA-e
3 main differences between the meta build and what I run for casual fotm groups. Healing springs+trait = regen is all you need for AF build up. Primal Echoes is an aoe daze when going into CA (Don’t need staff equipped). Moment of clarity instead of steady focus. F5 and CA3 = 1.5 second aoe daze. Quickdraw CA3. GoE = 3 second aoe daze. Axe 4 is a decent pull to make sure all the mobs are grouped up for said aoe daze and blinds (which are basically blocks for the entire team). So no, you don’t need longbow 4 for CC. You should be perma CCing trash mobs and soloing break bars, especially with pet swapping.

Berserker meta druid = utility first not healing. Get some zealots/magi and camp staff if you want to heal. Also, look at an updated list for DPS ranking
http://qtfy.enjin.com/dps
Viper ranger is better than most.

3 very distinct play styles that are all viable. I wasn’t a ranger main before but I basically am now for PvE. I don’t WvW so much but PvP and WvW do have multiple successful builds that can be used as well in those modes.

Pavlarian.4389:

where have u placed sigil of concentration? on wh?

Yup. Quick draw wh5 with Sigil of concentration if the boons are low then go into CA. Otherwise I camp staff then quickdraw CA4 for more gotl across 10 ppl.

In fotm, I usually run berserker gear and use Axe as the pull and reflect are AMAZING at higher levels. As mentioned above, clarion bond on pet swap is plenty for warhorn 5 procs. Just stow your pet before running into the fight and it’ll proc as soon as the pet pops out. Just because it’s berserker doesn’t mean I’m not a support druid. Healing power is never required here.

For raids, a lot of groups bring mirror double druids. Especially with two condi PS and two chronos, the buffs you mention aren’t needed as fury from FGJ and tiger gets shared with SoI by the chronos. Perma regen from chronos. Might won’t be a problem in organized groups.

However, I am often the solo raid healer druid in my guild group and it’s progression/training so a lot of people take damage often. Warhorn is great in this situation. The tiger is 15 seconds of fury to 5 ppl every 10 seconds but unless you position the tiger to be near the chrono tank (who flanks the boss), it’ll give the fury to non-chronos first due to proximity. If warriors are power instead of condi, no FGJ giving chronos fury. That means no SoI sharing of fury and that Tiger is not enough to cover 10 ppl alone. Warhorn is great for both more fury in general but also easier position to ensure chronos receive it to then share it.

Warriors messing up rotations or having to res etc. means might can drop below 25. In general warriors don’t actually cap 25 might to the group: usually closer to 20 stacks. Boon duration (Monk runes, nature magic and sigil of concentration) with traited frost spirit and warhorn 5 help a lot here.

Heals hit 5 ppl but there are 10 taking damage that I need to take care of. Regen from me is stronger than regen from the Chronos and helps with Scholar buffs.

So warhorn has uses for support druids but I find that it’s only in specific raid circumstances that make it worth it over axe.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAra7dncfCFohlfC2oBEgilcjqMAStWreVr1bF9HKpdD-TBiHQBObHA0s8ABV+RO9D0T9HAcSA0oSQ99EAIFwi6qA-e

VS trash mobs:
There is no break bar.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Duelist's_Discipline
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mistrust
Start with p5 so that MoD and F3 can recharge it. Or use focus 4. AOE interrupt stack huge confusion vs trash mobs and preventing them from doing dangerous kitten to your team. Blind also stops that from happening. Shatters blind, confuse and torment. Sigil of geomancy for aoe bleeds on weapon swap.

For bosses:
Can swap focus to shield or torch depending. Swap to PH. TW instead of well of gravity against bosses. Swap MoD to well of recall or mimic. The fractal mobility potion gives 15% boon duration. That’s 30+33% which is “enough” traditional chrono support.

Minor things: Wells don’t work in the aquatic ruins.
Gear can be further optimized depending on how much of your damage comes from confusion vs bleeds: swap to sinister as you have a trait that gives 33% bonus confusion duration.

Curunen.8729:

However even in that high end content it would be nice to see a reasonable amount of build diversity for each class that allows players to modify each class into any of the three Pillar’s of this game’s combat – Damage, Control and Support – or combination of these with each class offering it’s own “flavour” associated with that aspect.

Yes these are not strict “roles” as such because roles differ according to content. Decap is not valid in raids as there are no cap points and enhancing dps through quickness sharing is not applicable to pvp.

Fay.2357:

Yeah, that’s not how I understood it actually. I saw the traitline overhaul as a change purely designed to limit build diversity. It made the traitlines much simpler and drastically reduced the amount of potential combinations. In theory, this was supposed to make it more possible for the devs to balance things. In reality it just ended up showing how the devs are equally incapable of balancing a simple system as they are incapable of balancing a complicated system.

I don’t think it’s just the skill balance side of things. It’s also the general game design.

What does decap really mean though? Pushing/pulling things away from a point. Red orbs on VG can be countered by similar skills. Need more enemies that force us to use those mechanics.

Talking about cc, the break bar was a good addition to the game but it could have been better if interrupt traits worked against it. PI headshot thieves and Mesmers would have another type of build that would open up in PvE. Other games have moments where you save then use your heavy hitters. Gw2 kind of lacks those moments/skill design but interrupt traits could fill that burst niche.

Similarly, enemies could use more boons in PvE. Mallyx rev is poor DPS until enemies move and attack often (then it’s better than a PS warrior at times). Similar situation with condi mesmers. Necros are also not top condi DPS anymore. Boon corruption/clearing would add validity to those builds in raids. Enemies attacking or moving frequently or… both at the same time, would add to confusion and torment damage as well. It would even add more validity to support builds that give retaliation and healing to their allies. ~470 retaliation damage with max power in PvE. 1 character giving it to 5 teammates = ~2350 damage per raid boss swing. ~2-3 attacks per second and a Zealot hammer guard healing/retaliating their teammates (who let themselves get hit) will outdps a zerker guard… better yet, an OG immortal mesmer to double those retaliation numbers.

The other thing that works with these tank/aura/retaliation builds is that it affects even 10+ ppl hitting you. Most skills only affect 1, 3 or 5 targets. Need a raid boss with like mini raptor adds that spawn in waves of 40 at a time. That’ll shake up the meta and make other builds viable.

Been forced to play druid in my raid group since we have too many chronos and not enough rangers and I’ve been loving the build diversity that ranger/druid has. Lots of aoe cc and blinds for trash mobs in fractals. Healing in raids. Power support or pure condi dps. This carries over to PvP and WvW too. They are capable of balancing some of the classes to have build variety and other classes aren’t too far off. It’s the content that doesn’t demand/support that variety out of some classes.

Power damage is calculated as = Power * Weapon Strength* Powe scaling coefficient * other multipliers (including crits) / Enemies armor.

Everyones power and enemies armor will vary fight to fight. However, when comparing multiple weapon skills between weapons on a single build, what really matters is weapon strength and power coefficient as power and enemy armor should remain consistent (unless Might buffs power which Axe 1 does). Axe and Sword have the same average weapon strength. Each skill for every weapon has a specific power scaling coefficient. Example:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ricochet
0.7 Coeff (this has been tested in game)
1/4 second cast time (according to UI)
0.88 seconds per attack is also tested in game and listed lower on the page. Most skills have some aftercast.
So the coefficient/second would be 0.7/0.88 = ~0.79 coeff/second.

Get Marksmanship Bot, Mid (or Bot), Top
Get Skirmishing: X, Top, Top
Last line depends on what you want/utilities you bring:
WS: Bring QZ and LR and trait survival skills for easy PvE fury, stun break and condi clear.
BM: Shouts and Axe trait
Druid: Bot (this procs on F5, doesn’t require staff), Mid, Top. Bring glyphs.